Update: Diablo III's Loot 2.0 Breakdown - Less, Better, More Epic

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

Update: Diablo III's Loot 2.0 Breakdown - Less, Better, More Epic

Game system changes in Diablo III: Reaper of Souls such as loot 2.0 and the new Paragon system will be released as a free patch for the base game.

Diablo III's Josh Mosqueira, at a special GamesCom 2013 panel, explained exactly how "loot 2.0," one of the new features of the upcoming Diablo III expansion set: Reaper of Souls, will work. Better yet, a Blizzard blue poster confirmed that game system changes, such as loot 2.0 and the new, infinite, account-wide, Paragon levels system, will be released as a free patch for the base game sometime before the expansion's release.

"The basic philosophy [of loot 2.0] is we wanna make sure that playing the game is the most fun, the most rewarding way to get items."

Mosqueria explains that loot drops in loot 2.0 will be less frequent, but better items, and more epic overall. "We really wanna make sure we're not constantly filling up your bags with items you don't care about." He says that one of loot 2.0's tenants is to make legendary items "build changers," and the way they have accomplished that is with special, legendary only modifiers.

For example, a legendary wand: "Serpent's Sparker" has a chance to summon a Hydra at the enemy's location, as well as grant arcane power on critical hits (a stat that now appears to be exclusive to legendaries).

He also details something called "smart drops," in which every time an item drops, it can calculate its stats to be more suited for the class that it drops for. In short: you should no longer be getting all those Wizard hats with +strength.

Mosqueria uses a standard run through of Act III inferno on a Paragon level 40 character as a comparison between the current loot system, and loot 2.0. Whereas now you would get around 253 white items, 399 blues, 275 rares and only 1 legendary, in loot 2.0 you would find 75 whites, 266 blues, 83 rares and 6 legendaries.

Lastly, Mosqueria introduces Reaper of Souls's new artisan: the Mystic, who can "transmogrify" and enchant items. World of Warcraft fans should be familiar enough with transmogrification - it basically takes the "look" from one item and applies it to another, while enchanting allows you to reroll a single affix on a rare or legendary item.

"Loot runs," short 15-20 minute dungeons consisting of randomized areas, monsters, and bosses, and Paragon 2.0, which is now account wide, were a couple other things Mosqueria touched on in his presentation.

Loot 2.0 is probably one of the changes I'm most excited about for the expansion, as we all know, the epic loot is the main reason anyone plays this game anyway!

Sources: Gamespot and Battle.net Forums (Polish) via Diablo Fans

Update: Another blue poster has confirmed that pretty much everything except the Crusader, Act V, the Mystic, and leveling up to 70 will all be included in a free pre-expansion patch:

"We want to implement a lot of the new systems and features in a pre-expansion patch for free. That should include Paragon 2.0, Loot 2.0, Loot Runs, and Nephalem Trials. For now, you'll need to purchase the expansion to play as the Crusader, explore Act V, unlock the Mystic, and level up to 70. These details may change as development moves along, but we want some of the core gameplay improvements to be available for everyone."

Source: Battle.net Forums

Permalink

I stopped playing D3 only a few months after release, when I realised I was spending more time in the AH than I was playing the game. I was pretty much forced to do so too, lest I gimp myself and make each successive act far more difficult than it needed to be. I won't even get started on what Inferno - Act2 and on - felt like.

So I basically put the game down and resolved to wait till the first expansion before I picked it up again. Surely that would give Blizzard enough time to iron out the kinks? Things look pretty good so far, I think.

Who knows, maybe D3 might actually turn out to be the game we were always hoping it would be.

It's a start, but characters are still going to be incredibly linear and cut and paste (Every ends up the same)...although hopefully the new legendary mods will help differentiate characters from each other.

I really wish they would add back stats at level up, and some kind of skill system that lets you change how your character ends up. Loot by itself isn't enough to keep people interested long term (or at least alot of them) there has to be some form of progression for your character, something to shoot for. Just trying to get a few more bonus stats on equipment can only last so long.

In D2 I could play 1 character for 100+ hours, and then play the exact same class in a whole new way and spend another 100 hours on it.

In D3...I played all the characters through normal...which almost killed me because it was so easy/boring that I literally was falling asleep, then 1 character though to inferno and gave up getting the rest up. I stopped after playing 2 weeks...and only lasted that long because I waited so long for the game and I desprately wanted to love it.

I'll....retry...the game again after the loot tweaks etc....but it's going to take alot for me to invest more money in it.

well its looking good so far...i had one major thought about the paragon 2.0 thou. Most of it is a good idea, but i can almost GUARANTEE that having no level cap on paragon levels will literally kill some of the more obsessive players =p just saying.

We can only wait and see how much of this will ring true.

But at least people will be getting a more Diablo-esque experience.

Despite what most people are saying, it does seem like they are listening to feedback from the users.

There was an article posted here some time ago where some guy from Blizzard said he regretted the real money auction house's inclusion, and apparently that sentiment was shared by a decent number of other employees.

Opinion here, but I do believe if it was just an arbitrary online check, like what Ubisoft does, and removing the RMAH didn't require redesigning the entire game, they would have done it by now.

Who knows, maybe they will, but as is it could be a case of hands being tied by the tremendous amount of time and money it would take to rework the game to play offline and not need the RMAU. (Though the "loot 2.0" thing seems to be on the road to resolving one part of that equation.)

Lovely Mixture:
We can only wait and see how much of this will ring true.

But at least people will be getting a more Diablo-esque experience.

Ouch, if even half of that crap is true (I even recognise some of the images from promo material) then, just, wow.

Lovely Mixture:
We can only wait and see how much of this will ring true.

But at least people will be getting a more Diablo-esque experience.

Wow. That makes a terrifying amount of sense. They very unnecessarily split SC2 into three parts as well. Bleh.

FieryTrainwreck:

Lovely Mixture:
We can only wait and see how much of this will ring true.

But at least people will be getting a more Diablo-esque experience.

Wow. That makes a terrifying amount of sense. They very unnecessarily split SC2 into three parts as well. Bleh.

I disagree. So far at least, Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm were more than worth the cost of admission. They both added enough content to satisfy me for what Blizzard were charging for them.

When you consider other companies are willing to charge $10 for extra costumes, or $15 for 3 new maps, $40 for the ammount of content in your typical Blizzard expansion pack is exceptionally good value.

Steven Bogos:
I disagree. So far at least, Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm were more than worth the cost of admission. They both added enough content to satisfy me for what Blizzard were charging for them.

When you consider other companies are willing to charge $10 for extra costumes, or $15 for 3 new maps, $40 for the ammount of content in your typical Blizzard expansion pack is exceptionally good value.

Let me correct you: $10 for optional extra costumes, or $15 for optional maps. Those things are nice and all, but no one's going to burst into tears at losing them to the growing DLC craze because they don't contribute any large amount to the game.

By comparison, when a company is stripping entire campaigns worth of content from its game to sell to you at a $40 price tag, I call that a ripoff no matter how much content that expansion might have in it. That content should all have been in the game to begin with, not removed so as to be sold separately for another high fee.

You see it as "these expansions are worthwhile because of how much content they have". You're choosing not to look at it from the other angle, namely "I wonder how much of this content already existed by the time the game shipped but they kept it separate in order to plan ahead for the inevitable expansion instead of just stuffing the original game with that much extra content".

They acknowledged this problem in a wordy blog post over half a year ago! Now their fix is being withheld as a selling point for their recently announced expansion? Given their turn around time between announcement and release this is a bit frustrating.

CriticKitten:
snip

Let me put it to you this way. Were you satisfied with the content in Wings of Liberty for what it cost?

Yes, I was. I put hundreds of hours into it. Then Heart of the Swarm came out and i sunk even more hours into it.

I was satisfied with the games as is. Sure, they could have put more content into it, but that would just be greedy. I got what I paid for, and Blizzard games tend to satisfy me a lot more than other triple A titles.

CriticKitten:

By comparison, when a company is stripping entire campaigns worth of content from its game to sell to you at a $40 price tag, I call that a ripoff no matter how much content that expansion might have in it. That content should all have been in the game to begin with, not removed so as to be sold separately for another high fee.

Erm... the original starcraft launched with 30 missions, 10 for each race. Starcraft 2 launched with 29 missions, majority Terran controlled but several side missions as Protoss and the usual secret mission.

Unless you're protesting that 1 lost mission, I'm not sure where you get the idea "entire campaigns worth of content" were stripped. But then you'd have to factor in the objectively superior PvE content like between-mission research and dialog plus PvE-only perks like instant-build-time depots (and all the other ones, the list was fairly beefy) and SC2 comes out ahead, even despite missing that 1 mission.

Did you really want to play a half-assed short campaign for each race, trying to cram as much story into each crevice as possible while supporting characters come and go in a flash because there's no time to see them unfold or grow? You know, the problem starcraft 1 had? Kerrigan was the only character with a real arc because she got the most screentime. The goldmines of potential character development that were Zeratul and Raynor often got ignored for missions at a time while you farted around doing bullshit for Kerrigan, or getting betrayed by Kerrigan, or trying to kill Kerrigan. Even minor (comparatively) supporting characters like Samir Duran, Alexei Stukov and Duke Onionhead had the potential to be much more than they were, but they came and went incredibly fast because of the low mission count for each race.

I much prefer the time and elbow room for each person to get their screentime, their chance to shine. If Tychus Findlay only showed up for like 5 missions, would you have nearly the emotional attachment to him that you do having spent an entire beefy campaign around him? Would his conflict at the end have the same weight if he was just some nobody that came and went, as opposed to a human being we know to be Raynor's longtime friend and ally (shown countless times over many missions)?

I was "sad" when Stokov was killed in Brood War, but I could have been *devastated*. If Brood War had 30 (or 29, hurr) missions to build up his character as the intelligent and scheming but pure-hearted second-in-command with no small amount of distrust for Samir and his plans, and increasing resentment of the Zerg and the Terran's involvement with said zerg... Then Samir plots against him and finally corners him in a dark abandoned base to take him out, away from the potential protection of his friend Gerard... that whole scene could have been much, much cooler. But instead they were forced to just rush by it - you see it coming from a mile away and it happens in a flash, with no time for levity or attraction. None of it has weight or meaning, it just "happens."

Granted, these are RTS games. Most of these have absolute joke plots, despite sometimes having solid RTS elements (most C&C games, for example). But Starcraft was different. It had characters that weren't just cardboard cutouts from the Hero and Villain Archetype Coloring Book, but it didn't let us spend enough time with any of them sans Kerrigan (...and possibly Raynor, depending on how quickly you get attached to generic rugged hero archetypes) to really feel for their troubles. SC2 figured they'd have a much cooler story if they just stuck with one race all the way up, and they succeeded. While less actually "happens" in SC2:WoL compared to SC1 (just comparing major events), what does happen feels much more personal.

ticklefist:
They acknowledged this problem in a wordy blog post over half a year ago! Now their fix is being withheld as a selling point for their recently announced expansion? Given their turn around time between announcement and release this is a bit frustrating.

- "Game system changes in Diablo III: Reaper of Souls such as loot 2.0 and the new Paragon system will be released as a free patch for the base game."

I.E, now their fix is being implemented for everyone parallel to the release of the recently announced expansion.

Lovely Mixture:
We can only wait and see how much of this will ring true.

But at least people will be getting a more Diablo-esque experience.

That could explain a lot of things if it is true. The way that makes the game sound, it seems like it would have been much more successful in its original incarnation as it sticks closer to what people were expecting instead of trying to streamline the entire project. In any case I've kind of sworn off most of Acti-Blizzards franchises, including Starcraft II. They've gone too far in the direction of turning their games into services and they just don't have the same feel as the old Blizzard titles. It takes more than a name to make games that people want to play...

"We really wanna make sure we're not constantly filling up your bags with items you don't care about." Then take away the fucking white and grey drops on Inferno difficulty. They are absolutely pointless on difficulties above normal. In fact, just remove them completely, they're fucking pointless in general.

Kungfu_Teddybear:
"We really wanna make sure we're not constantly filling up your bags with items you don't care about." Then take away the fucking white and grey drops on Inferno difficulty. They are absolutely pointless, even on difficulties above normal. In fact, just remove them completely, they're fucking pointless in general.

They are drastically reducing amount of white and blue drops (also rare drops but increasing their quality) in the expansion. They can be used as a crafting material for the mystic too.

CriticKitten:

You see it as "these expansions are worthwhile because of how much content they have". You're choosing not to look at it from the other angle, namely "I wonder how much of this content already existed by the time the game shipped but they kept it separate in order to plan ahead for the inevitable expansion instead of just stuffing the original game with that much extra content".

Try "options were cut because they did not fit with the overall game design or balance." It's a sad world were people always think the worst of a company because it's stylish..

Kungfu_Teddybear:
"We really wanna make sure we're not constantly filling up your bags with items you don't care about." Then take away the fucking white and grey drops on Inferno difficulty. They are absolutely pointless, even on difficulties above normal. In fact, just remove them completely, they're fucking pointless in general.

Yeah, I never got the point of those items. In D2 the grey items are there for rune words (also I'm pretty sure the ones with a lot of slots can be sold for a decent amount) but since D3 doesn't have those their whole purpose is literally being useless garbage.

If the loot drops are fixed so one can get what's needed to play the game by actually playing the game instead of fishing on the AH, I might give D3 a shot. Everything I've heard points to a solid game with good gameplay that's needlessly dragged down by its surrounding mechanics (drops, AH, etc.)...

chikusho:

ticklefist:
They acknowledged this problem in a wordy blog post over half a year ago! Now their fix is being withheld as a selling point for their recently announced expansion? Given their turn around time between announcement and release this is a bit frustrating.

- "Game system changes in Diablo III: Reaper of Souls such as loot 2.0 and the new Paragon system will be released as a free patch for the base game."

I.E, now their fix is being implemented for everyone parallel to the release of the recently announced expansion.

Yep. Said nothing to the contrary. My point is that they want to truck it out in tandem with the expansion so when people come back for it they're generating a new box sale as well.

Jandau:
If the loot drops are fixed so one can get what's needed to play the game by actually playing the game instead of fishing on the AH, I might give D3 a shot. Everything I've heard points to a solid game with good gameplay that's needlessly dragged down by its surrounding mechanics (drops, AH, etc.)...

It was definitely like that on release. If someone was playing as a sorceress they'd likely get gear for every other conceivable class except their own the majority of the time just so that there is fuel for the AH system.

ticklefist:

chikusho:

ticklefist:
They acknowledged this problem in a wordy blog post over half a year ago! Now their fix is being withheld as a selling point for their recently announced expansion? Given their turn around time between announcement and release this is a bit frustrating.

- "Game system changes in Diablo III: Reaper of Souls such as loot 2.0 and the new Paragon system will be released as a free patch for the base game."

I.E, now their fix is being implemented for everyone parallel to the release of the recently announced expansion.

Yep. Said nothing to the contrary. My point is that they want to truck it out in tandem with the expansion so when people come back for it they're generating a new box sale as well.

While you're probably right, I don't really see anything wrong in doing that.

"Hey guys, look at this new cool free stuff! By the way, we're selling an expansion pack now too!"

It's just smart business, assuming that they haven't literally had this patch ready to go for a year and have been sitting on it until they were ready to release RoS

Great! They're finally fixing the loot system! Now, they just have to fix....

-PvP
-Cookie-cutter builds and no real feel of customization
-No real end-game content other than "same shit you played before, only now it kills you REALLY fast"
-Social aspects being awful (lack of anything out-of-game, lack of being able to name games, voice chat, or guild-support)

Get back to me once all that's resolved and then I might be interested in putting good money after bad. Till then, I think I've gotten everything I will out of D3.

Why is there no mention of Paragon Points in the article?

From what they've outlined, they're fixing almost every problem I had with the game. Hopefully it turns out like they say because y'know, Blizzard.

Lovely Mixture:
We can only wait and see how much of this will ring true.

But at least people will be getting a more Diablo-esque experience.

A lot of those things (like the skill trees and upgradeable skill runes) were taken out because they weren't working for the game. The pre-release logs talk about why. And the enchantress was always planned to be put in in the future.

Lovely Mixture:
We can only wait and see how much of this will ring true.

But at least people will be getting a more Diablo-esque experience.

that picture:
SHE WAS CUT BECAUSE SHE WAS APPARENTLY "TOO SIMILAR TO BEING ABLE TO ADD SOCKETS AND GEMS WITH THE JEWELER" (THE REAL REASON IS BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS)

The Mystic (Karyna - the one you rescue from Queen Araenae's web in Act I) still has art, and most of the rest of this picture has a case - only four gems feels horribly stunted - but those parentheses cost this picture any right it might have had to exist. Seriously, WTF?

Jandau:
If the loot drops are fixed so one can get what's needed to play the game by actually playing the game instead of fishing on the AH, I might give D3 a shot. Everything I've heard points to a solid game with good gameplay that's needlessly dragged down by its surrounding mechanics (drops, AH, etc.)...

More appropriate loot will be good, but best case scenario is that playing the game without the Ah will be 'possible'. The nature of the thing still means that it's always going to be faster, more practical, and way the fuck less fun to just hop over to the AH.

Hopefully at the very least the changes make it so a little less self control is needed to avoid the thing.

It's definitely a step in the right direction. The garbage loot drops and the auction house are what ruined the game for me. With these improved loot mechanics, if they also get rid of the auction house (as unlikely as that is), I will happily come running back to Diablo 3

"The basic philosophy [of loot 2.0] is we wanna make sure that playing the game is the most fun, the most rewarding way to get items."

I'm sorry but it seems a little fucked up that its taking 2 years from release to figure this out.

/tinfoil hat on

It seems like the RMAH isn't making much money these days. Now they're ready to make the game actually rewarding, after they've got all they can out of the suckers who bought gold/items.

Blizzard can just change some droprate numbers, patch in features and areas withheld from the original launch, and rake in some more cash.

On top of that, they have hearthstone. Another grind till you puke, or pay way more than $60 game.

If that wasn't enough, a cash shop for a sub mmo. Its ok cuz its vanity items right?!?

Blizzard is becoming zynga.

/tinfoil hat off

I've put a bit of time in diablo 3. Enough time. Better items won't change that fact. Too many other better games/things to do.

Meh. They certainly seem like improvements, but the way it shipped and especially their initial patch cycles really showed that they didn't understand what game genre the Diablo series exists in, and I feel their further efforts will be hampered by being built on a terribly rocky foundation.

They've certainly salvaged some and built a better game with their patches, so maybe I'll try it eventually, but I don't really have much hope in that.

schmulki:
Great! They're finally fixing the loot system! Now, they just have to fix....

-PvP
-Cookie-cutter builds and no real feel of customization
-No real end-game content other than "same shit you played before, only now it kills you REALLY fast"
-Social aspects being awful (lack of anything out-of-game, lack of being able to name games, voice chat, or guild-support)

Get back to me once all that's resolved and then I might be interested in putting good money after bad. Till then, I think I've gotten everything I will out of D3.

I'm confused what you mean by cookie-cutter builds. Is there one or two absolute "best" builds per class? Probably, but Blizzard usually fixes it so its not absolutely required (CM wizards have been nerfed almost every single patch for instance). However that doesn't mean other stuff isn't usable. I've been slowly gearin up a Spectral Blade Wizard since I hit 60 and while it does require a specific amount of gear, it works quite well (seen it in action at high MP levels as well, looks absolutely amazin).

Heck, I've even see a Witch Doctor effectively use Hex: Angry Chicken in mid range MP levels and that's considered to be the worst rune in the entire game (damage wise, awesome wise nothin beats turnin into a giant Chicken).

From the amount of research I've done on this, there's more viable builds in D3 than there ever were in D2 and they all play radically different.

Steven Bogos:
-snip-

It is not "greedy" to expect that all of the content developed for a game prior to its release should actually show up in the game. Nor it is being entitled, as some might say.

People need to stop throwing these nonsensical buzzwords around as if they hold any inherent meaning.

Now, can I say 100% for certain that the content in the most recent Starcraft 2 expansion was already made at the time Wings of Liberty came out? Of course not, I'd have to have been employed at Blizzard to know that, and if I were I'd probably not be bad-mouthing them, would I?

I'm just pointing out that the poster you quoted has a very much valid point: there is nothing wrong with insisting that a game developer should try to include as much content as possible in their initial release. Nor is it wrong for a person to be upset when it's revealed or implied that large portions of content were cut from a game.

Again, I'm not saying with any degree of certainty that it's happened here. But if it were revealed that such were the case, yeah, I think everyone who bought SC2 would have a right to be angry. And I wouldn't consider that entitled or "greedy" behavior at all. Let's use these terms properly instead of just slapping them onto every gamer who disagrees with us, thanks.

AuronFtw:
-snip-

At no point did I utter the words "Starcraft 2's expansion pack was compiled of content ripped out of the original game", so your essay is rather unnecessary.

I was merely pointing out that if, at some future point in time, it was revealed that the Heart of the Swarm campaign (and the next expansion's campaign) had been ripped from the original game for the purposes of crafting an expansion out of it, then I would very much understand if people got angry about that. I wouldn't consider their complaints to be "greedy" or "entitled" at all.

And it really wouldn't matter how much content said expansion had....my stance is very firmly that ANY time content is ripped from the original game for the purposes of making players pay for it later, it's not okay, regardless of how much content is offered or how much of a "deal" it seems to be.

This is something we need to be careful about, as devs have exploited this loophole in the past and will continue to do so. There's nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution.

Makabriel:
-snip-

I don't think the worst of companies because it's stylish, I think the worst of companies because it's more often true than not.

Companies are not your bestest buddies, they do not exist to please you. They exist to make money, and they'll be underhanded and lie to you if they think they can get away with it. Even the nicest of companies with the best of reputations in the video game industry have done some rather sleazy things to their customers in the past.

It's called realism: presume the worst and hope for the best.

Really, this sounds like what 1.0 should have been. Balance the game for your players, not for the f@#4ing auction house(s).

So when WoW (or heck, any MMO) does this sort of thing its "OMG THEY'RE DUMBING DOWN FOR THE ME ME ME NOW NOW NOW KIDDIE CASUALS" but when D3 does it it's "Oh good?"

 Pages 1 2 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here