League of Legends Tournament Characters Banned By Iran

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Absolutionis:
What part of Vi shows too much skin? Even if they are absurdly restrictive, they're also absurdly inconsistent.

Same for Quinn, really. You can only see like...her face.

Belated:
What's the matter, Escapists? Aren't you guys always going on and on about how awful it is for a video game to feature sexy women? I know for a fact at least some of you feel showing skin in video games should be outright outlawed. Well now Iran is giving you what you want. Yeah, that's right. The world you want to live in is IRAN. You proud of that?

Annnddd we have a straw man! "Arguing against sexism in games makes us similar to those who want to censor women entirely!", which has got to be the silliest counterargument in the history of this topic. I have never seen anyone advocate the removal of sex or sexual women from gaming, I'd just like it if sexuality wasn't the only defining factor about that character.

Belated:
Okay seriously, I have to laugh at the hypocrisy here. I mean it's alright if you don't want every video game to feature sexy women, or if you don't want every woman in a certain video game to be sexy. But from the forum discussions, it seems like a lot of you think sexiness is inherently wrong in and of itself and should cease to be a thing.

Again, no. You're wrong. Characters like Lara Croft (Before the reboot), Rayne from Bloodrayne and most female fighting characters (Note the most.) are horribly written and often sport over the top skimpy outfits that are impracticable given the scenario for no gameplay reason and are often poorly written. No one would mind the skimpy outfits if they actually served a purpose or if the character's story was actually worth following. Its what sets characters like Samara and Morrigan from Dragon Age from lazily crafted characters.

Belated:
Perhaps because you don't understand the importance of neutral free speech, or perhaps because you're just that much of a puritan and you think fantasizing is dangerous.

No, I just don't like bad writing and believe that the gaming medium would be better off if we steered away from this character direction.

There are quite a few sexy characters in League of Legends. Caitlyn for example, especially in her officer outfit. Miss Fortune, especially in her midriff-baring default outfit with tight pants. And Ashe's Woad outfit is particularly revealing. Just to name the ones that I use most frequently. So yes, given that League has sexy women, and given that a lot of Escapists seem to be against any kind of sexiness in video games, it would therefore follow that a lot of Escapists agree with Iran. So I reiterate: How does that feel?[/quote]
Execpt most of those outfits serve a gameplay purpose. Riot has gone on the record to point out that most female characters in League are oversexualized in order to create distinctive features that allows them to be instantly recognized. There are a few exceptions to this, where the sexuality exists in lore (As is the case with Eve and Ahri), but a large portion of the League pool that was banned are also share masculine traits, like Poppy, Sejuani, Leona, Vi, Kayle (Who is often mistaken for a guy), Akali, Diana, Fiora, Irelia, Vayne, Riven, Quinn, Tristana and Lux. And then there are the few other champs who preform more of a priestess/prophecy role, like Soraka, Karma and Nami and then there is Orianna. So to recap, yes, LoL has oversexualized champions, but their designs serve a gameplay function and even then, they are heavily outnumbered by the non-sexualized characters.

So how does it feel to have to argue against a weak strawman argument? Well, I feel rather silly having to actually explain this at all.

Gizen:
What? No Poppy ban?

Maybe they didn't consider her to be a female character. Ouch! Otherwise, I agree; if she gets away with it, why the hell does Kayle, a completely armored character with NO skin revealed, get the boot?
If this isn't a mistake on the article author's part, then it just goes to show how retarded the people enforcing these rules are.

My first reaction upon reading the article "Why are they hosting a tournament in Iran?" No seriously, wouldn't it be easier to say "Screw it guys, new country." What is necessary about them doing it in Iran that they can't have the tournament in any other nearby nation?

Because if someone was told they can't play in a torunament with their favorite character, they won't enter...and that seems like a lot of characters aren't included in the play roster.

Does it need to be physical? Can't they host it from online?

maddawg IAJI:
Again, no. You're wrong. Characters like Lara Croft (Before the reboot), Rayne from Bloodrayne and most female fighting characters (Note the most.) are horribly written and often sport over the top skimpy outfits that are impracticable given the scenario for no gameplay reason and are often poorly written.

No more horribly written or one-dimensional than their male counterparts from the same era. And males in skimpy and impractical outfits aren't rare either.

Sure, we care more about naked females than naked males, but... I do have to say, I suspect the Iranian guys aren't sitting around going "We gotta restrict women more!"; I suspect they're saying much the same as that vocal minority of Escapists, "The sexualisation of our women is too much! It dehumanises them!", which is where Belated's point comes from. I understand their response goes further than yours, but I believe the impulse is much the same: "We gotta protect women from bad (read: sexy) portrayals of their gender!"

Execpt most of those outfits serve a gameplay purpose. Riot has gone on the record to point out that most female characters in League are oversexualized in order to create distinctive features that allows them to be instantly recognized. There are a few exceptions to this, where the sexuality exists in lore (As is the case with Eve and Ahri), but a large portion of the League pool that was banned are also share masculine traits, like Poppy, Sejuani, Leona, Vi, Kayle (Who is often mistaken for a guy), Akali, Diana, Fiora, Irelia, Vayne, Riven, Quinn, Tristana and Lux. And then there are the few other champs who preform more of a priestess/prophecy role, like Soraka, Karma and Nami and then there is Orianna. So to recap, yes, LoL has oversexualized champions, but their designs serve a gameplay function and even then, they are heavily outnumbered by the non-sexualized characters.

I'm glad you're okey with sexiness being used to make aesthetically distinct characters, as part of a diverse roster. Me and Belated too!

So how does it feel to have to argue against a weak strawman argument? Well, I feel rather silly having to actually explain this at all.

Hey, hey. Why not read a little more charitably? I mean, if you think someone is arguing something patently ridiculous, then that probably isn't what they're arguing. In which case, honest questions might get better results than accusations.

Belated:

Shamanic Rhythm:

Belated:
What's the matter, Escapists? Aren't you guys always going on and on about how awful it is for a video game to feature sexy women? I know for a fact at least some of you feel showing skin in video games should be outright outlawed. Well now Iran is giving you what you want. Yeah, that's right. The world you want to live in is IRAN. You proud of that?

Okay seriously, I have to laugh at the hypocrisy here. I mean it's alright if you don't want every video game to feature sexy women, or if you don't want every woman in a certain video game to be sexy. But from the forum discussions, it seems like a lot of you think sexiness is inherently wrong in and of itself and should cease to be a thing. Perhaps because you don't understand the importance of neutral free speech, or perhaps because you're just that much of a puritan and you think fantasizing is dangerous. (When in reality, fantasizing is quite healthy and in fact NOT fantasizing is a lot more dangerous. Sexual repression can turn you nuts.)

There are quite a few sexy characters in League of Legends. Caitlyn for example, especially in her officer outfit. Miss Fortune, especially in her midriff-baring default outfit with tight pants. And Ashe's Woad outfit is particularly revealing. Just to name the ones that I use most frequently. So yes, given that League has sexy women, and given that a lot of Escapists seem to be against any kind of sexiness in video games, it would therefore follow that a lot of Escapists agree with Iran. So I reiterate: How does that feel?

What's wrong with a middle ground whereby I would like games developers to not automatically create the majority of female characters as fan service, based on their own initiative that 'this is a good thing to do' rather than because some hardline theocracy is in 'ban this sick filth' mode?

Nothing. Never said there was anything wrong with that. The argument I am making is that there is a witch hunt going on against any amount of skin showing on any one female character in any game whatsoever. That if you made a game with say, 10 well-dressed strong female characters, and one strong female character with her thighs showing, that game would be controversial because of those thighs. Or rather, it wouldn't be controversial, but then Kotaku would start a controversy about it, and The Escapist would follow suit, and then it would be controversial. I acknowledge that there's too much sexuality, and I'm all for toning it down. But what I'm not for is eliminating it, and there are people on this site who are totally for that.

Right. But if you were trying to make a valid point and begin a reasoned discussion, perhaps you should not have started off the conversation with a post comparing 'The Escapists' to fanatic dictatorship. It's hard to take you seriously when you start off with a Godwin.

OT: crazy regime is crazy, i guess. I can't imagine it will be a very credible tournament with half the champions missing.

RJ 17:
I posed the simple question of "Do you like sexy women in games?" (or something along those lines, can't remember the exact wording) with three options: "Yes, I actually prefer them that way", "No, I find it to be offensive/degrading/etc.", or "It honestly doesn't bother me enough to care one way or the other."

I'd like sexy women in games. Too bad I so rarely get sensibly dressed, smart, funny and interesting female characters with reasonaly-sized breasts...
The way that question was posed was hardly simple.

Belated:
But what I'm not for is eliminating it, and there are people on this site who are totally for that.

Such as?

CriticalMiss:
Why don't they just put all of the female characters in traditional muslim attire? You know, to destroy their sense of identity just like in the real world. It'll be like LoL crossed with Pacman.

While we're at it we might as well do it to all female characters in games. A lot of folks seem to be trying to stamp out any kind of sexuality in games whatsoever. Burkas for all!

Lieju:

RJ 17:
I posed the simple question of "Do you like sexy women in games?" (or something along those lines, can't remember the exact wording) with three options: "Yes, I actually prefer them that way", "No, I find it to be offensive/degrading/etc.", or "It honestly doesn't bother me enough to care one way or the other."

I'd like sexy women in games. Too bad I so rarely get sensibly dressed, smart, funny and interesting female characters with reasonaly-sized breasts...
The way that question was posed was hardly simple.

And there were of course plenty of nit-pickers like you in the topic, as there always are. It really was quite simple: considering the context in which the poll was created (as I mentioned previously, I made it right during all the hub-bub regarding the Dragon's Crown Sorceress) it should have been pretty obvious as to what kind of "sexy" I was talking about.

Notice the use of quotation marks to acknowledge that that kind of sexy doesn't meet everyone's definition of sexy. Pretty sure I did the same thing in the poll. If I didn't, well at this point the poll is 3 weeks old so I really don't care anymore. :P

Leona and Vi? Are you actually shitting me? I don't know whose idea it was to host a tournament in Iran, if the government was on board from the start or not, but if you're going to allow a tournament for a culturally very different public, you better get ready to stretch your own pants, instead of tightening Riot's belt.

Next you're going to tell me only Kennen is allowed.
Stupid ass, backwards, rabble rabble....

Seriously? Why the fuck try to host an eSports tournament in IRAN?

Move it to a better country, hell if I was a pro player I wouldn't even want to go there for the tournament..

"Well, interesting match here today, one of the top tier players shouted an obscenity at the other team and had his tongue cut out, tough break."

And who the fuck knows what would happen to one of the trash talking female teams...

Il bet they plan the next match in North Korea....

Well, I guess I can chuck this onto the pile of stuff that makes me dislike Iran on an intuitive level. Why the heck are they trying to run a tournament in Iran?

Absolutionis:
What part of Vi shows too much skin? Even if they are absurdly restrictive, they're also absurdly inconsistent.

At least some of her skins have cleavage, and she's also usually sporting a skintight unitard.

This is actually a complaint that people in the US have leveled at the game, that the female characters are overly sexualized to the point of it being somewhat offensive. Initially the company went with a "we have to exaggerate the secondary sexual characteristics or the viewer won't even realize the character is female", but over time I think they realized that that's a weak excuse and gave us some Leonas and Lulus and so on, as well as adding some beefcake with Varus and so on that are straight-up male strippers instead of male power fantasies.

Basically, known issue with the game, they've been fixing it gradually, but the way they've been balancing out the issue (adding new characters rather than dropping old ones) still leaves some people offended.

RJ 17:
And there were of course plenty of nit-pickers like you in the topic, as there always are. It really was quite simple: considering the context in which the poll was created (as I mentioned previously, I made it right during all the hub-bub regarding the Dragon's Crown Sorceress) it should have been pretty obvious as to what kind of "sexy" I was talking about.

Notice the use of quotation marks to acknowledge that that kind of sexy doesn't meet everyone's definition of sexy. Pretty sure I did the same thing in the poll. If I didn't, well at this point the poll is 3 weeks old so I really don't care anymore. :P

But that's a problem. These discussions always turn into 'You are just against sexuality and sex!', when those 'sexy' characters only represent a small example of what kind of female characters can be sexy. (And even plenty of people who like big breasts find The Sorceress a bit too much.)

You should have used different terminology, like 'sexualised', or 'objectified', or asked whether people felt those characters were over-represented etc. As it was, I'm not sure what the poll showed, exactly, since different people understood the question differently. (Or as you put it, 'there were plenty of 'nitpickers' like me.)

1. How come Sejuani and Tristana are in both lists? Some skins banned, others up for consideration?
2. Why are Vayne (skin tight catsuit) and Lissandra (cleavage) up for consideration, while Oriana (a fucking robot) and Quinn (completely armoured up) are banned?

Every female character has at least one modestly dressed skin. Why couldn't they just make only those skins playable?

Orianna? Really? But, she's a robot. She doesn't even have skin.

Vhite:
Lulu? Seriously? Does this speaks of shameless heathen sex to you?

Clearly you and I visit very different websites.

Belated:

Mister Chippy:
*snip*

A few lines in tells me that you didn't actually read my posts, you skimmed them at best. So I'm going to pay you the respect you paid me by only skimming your post, which you should have no problem with. You think I'm hostile? I'll show you hostile:

-No, I didn't call out the "majority" of escapists as free-speech haters. I called out a minority. A large minority, but a minority nonetheless. My exact words were "A lot". "A lot" is not "most", nor is it "all". "A lot" is many. Less than 50%, but more than 10%. And it sure as hell isn't a "majority", so right of the bat you're angry at me for something I factually didn't say.
-Yes, there ARE in fact "a lot" of people on this site who don't understand the importance of free speech and really do, legitimately want to BAN sexy characters. I met them when I defended Dead or Alive, I met them when I defended Dragons Crown, I met them when I defended Senran Kagura. People who legitimately feel that sexuality is inherently bad and so is fantasizing. They're not the majority, but they're a very large minority on here.
-It's bad enough you only skimmed my posts before criticizing me, but now it seems you also skimmed the news post itself. The attitudes in Iran are not that women should not be present in games. The attitudes of Iran are that the women aren't covered enough. And it is that attitude that I am comparing with a sizable minority of escapists. Yes it's true that all women were banned at first, but they're considering a few better-dressed ones.
-I find it ironic that you should come to me with such hostility when you criticize me for my hostility.

That's it. I'm not looking at the rest of your post because if the opening few parts are any evidence, the rest of it is probably made up of arguments against things I never said, and things that are factually inaccurate. I'll re-read your opinion on what I said, when your opinion is based on things I actually said. But until then, don't insult my intelligence by criticizing arguments I didn't make and missing the overarching point of what it is I'm saying. Plus, it's too goddamn long.

First, I'm going to admit that my accusing you of calling out most of this site was wrong. You're right that you only said a lot. My bad.

Secondly, I'm saddened that you didn't read the rest of my post but judged before you actually read it However I did write quite a bit so I can't actually blame you there. Also, if I come off as hostile to you then I am truely sorry. I tried to be sure that my post wouldn't come off that way, but obviously I goofed somewhere. I do think it would have been helpful if you'd read a little further though.

Thirdly, I'd really appreciate it if you read the rest of this post. I worked hard on it, researched all my facts, re-read everything you've already written here, and tried to consolidate my thoughts from the first post. Also, I'd like to say that I tried even harder to make this non-hostile and not to accuse you of anything you didn't say or don't believe. I merely state my opinion about your attitudes (which may surprise you) and present some counterpoints (which I have thoroughly researched and would be happy to provide more evidence for if you request it OR have specified are just my opinion). If any portions of this seem hostile or like my information isn't valid I'd love it if you could specifially
point them out to me so I can fix/clarify them.

To reiterate what I said in the portion of my post that you admit to not having read, I actually agree with you on the issue of should there be sexiness in games. In fact, I think it would be amazing if every single character in League had at least one skin that was themed purely around making the character sexy. However I also think that League of Legends takes it too far sometimes since the games does feature an incredible amount of sexy material and the sheer quantity seems to mean that sexiness sometimes creeps into places where I feel like it hurts the game. I don't believe that sexiness should demean a character's role (Cait's cop skin, which I also admit is just a skin I don't like aesthetically, does this by dressing her up in an outfit no police officer would ever actually wear but that a stripper might), that sexiness should be the norm to the detriment of other stuff (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=29924919 the OP here does a very valid analysis of this and while it's a bit old and league has been improving things have not changed enough to invalidate the points made here), or that either gender should be treated differently in the quest for sexiness (the link above also illustrates that). I also go into a little rant towards the end about the impracticality of a lot of the clothing worn by the female (and some of the male) skins that aren't even supposed to be explicitly sexy, but that's due to my fondness for combat attire more than anything else and you really shouldn't care about that bit.

Now to address the other points you've made in your response here:

- First, I'm sorry I said "most" when you said "a lot of". I've already said that, but I'll say it again.

- Secondly, I think you might be making assumptions about what other people believe or feel. I've lurked on these forums for quite some time and while I've seen people taking plenty of different views on plenty of different subjects, I haven't seen a sizable amount of people who have what I would call 'puritanical' views about sexuality. I've seen people who don't believe that sexuality has a place in games, but I've seen almost no people who support it being outright banned (yes, I have seen some). The majority of people who I've seen complaining about sex in games (on gaming sites) complain more about how women are portrayed than the actual existence of sex/sexiness themselves, and I think often they make valid points. Most of the time when a topic about censorship comes up the overwhelming opinion seems to be "well that sucks!" even among the people who might disagree with the content in the games in the first place. That said, this is just what I've seen and may not be representative of what people actually believe. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

- I feel this one is unjustified. I read the entirety of the article posted here, and I've read basically everything I could find from places like the LoL forums, Reddit, Kotaku, and even the original translated announcement and rules about the bans. Also, I think we should both admit that neither of us actually knows what is going through the heads of the Iranian government at this moment. If we did we'd probably be working for the CIA instead of arguing about banned characters in a video game online. My logic for stating that the ban list was due to the Iranian government not wanted women in the game comes from the fact that the original ban list included Kayle, who is dressed more sensibly than a majority of the men in this game (although her pauldrons are a bit oversized) and a goddamned pheonix. The rumors of the new character list does seem like the work of people managing to convince them only to ban the scantily clad characters, but even then I don't think it's appropriate to link the attitudes over in Iran to the ones here. Many escapists who disagree with games such as the ones you list do so because they feel like those games seriously disrespect women. That is NOT the attitude in Iran. The Iranian government really does have a puritanical view of sexuality, while the anger towards games like Dragon's Crown here is motivated by a lot of things, but I think primarily a dislike of the objectification of women (something that the Iranian government has no problems with). Therefor I think it's not really accurate to accuse the escapist forums of being hypocrites here. And, to insert a little quibble of my own in here, you did open up your first post by addressing the Escapist forums generally

Belated:
What's the matter, Escapists?

which means that people are probably more likely to dismiss any parts later on in your post where you specify that you didn't actually mean everyone here and only a small portion.

- Once again I'd like to apologize that you found my tone hostile. I really didn't intend for it to sound that way and I consider it a failure that that was how it came out to you.

While I often hold religions in contempt, countries who are mostly run by religions and the people allow it to be so (as opposed to feeling to sorry for those who sorry feckers simply who can't help their situation) even more so but I can honestly not really argue against some of the banned champions as a huge amount of the female characters could stand to wear something more than a fantasy themed fetish suit. There are champions such as Zyra who because of her back story, it makes sense for their looks but champions or skins are simply clearly there for titillation and particularly for fourteen years to fap to.

I've got a hosepipe so I can't be flamed for this but I kind of agree with the bans, not in a freedom of expression kind of way but just one that highlights the fact that too many of LoL's ladies are hyper-sexualised in quite a negative way. The considered champions are only considered because they have a skin that puts clothes on them, rather than let them fight in hot pants or crop tops. If I had my say that's what all champions aught to have, something that shows them with a bit of dignity. There may be a few exceptions but they should be limited really. You can hardly be seen as professional to tournament organizers when over 90% of the female roster is considered inappropriate.

Ah, iran, a coutnry that manages so well in economy and so poorly in society. though they often do that dont they. nothing new.

Today's news: Iran government acts like crazy assholes for some "raison".

It gets tiring after some time.

Thank god we live in countries that we have no risk of censoring artists or slut shaming their characters.

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