Garak73: This is not a freedom of speech issue. I do wish people would quit saying that it is. EA/BW has every right to allow and disallow people on their forums as they see fit. So suspending/temp banning him is fine and even the guy who got banned admits that.
The problem comes when he is locked out of the activation servers. This is inexcusable but again, it isn't about free speech. They grounded him from his own games for 3 days...that is beyond their legal reach and also it is unethical.
I have to disagree. He had an issue at the time and asked a stupid question but the question itself wasnt vulgar or explicit. Its like a guy on EVE had in his bio "I LOVE NAZI'S" and got banned from the game. Although the statement isn't vular,rasist, or explicit but can mean so many things like maybe his wife is a nazi so it would be a true statement so he fought back, won, and was compensated for his troubles. Only difference here is that (as far as we know) the guy isn't banned from using his games only temp banned (oh and he's probably only saying he deserved the temp ban so they dont perma ban him). Either way its wrong what Bioware/EA did.
I agree that what he said wasn't ban worthy but that is small potatoes compared to the real issue, that EA/BW can and will take your games away from you.
The kid was an ass. And EA was also an ass. But it will be EA that suffers more merely because it couldn't be the bigger man. You guys here talking about it are pretty much an indicator of that.
So, question is...why're we still having this conversation? There's nothing left!
If I buy something for 60s dollars and am not satisfied, it's my right to be an ass. It's my property. I can say I dislike it.
Anyone who dosen't see a problem with this has to be blind. They can revoke your right to something you own, my fucking government can't even do that.
Garak73: This is not a freedom of speech issue. I do wish people would quit saying that it is. EA/BW has every right to allow and disallow people on their forums as they see fit. So suspending/temp banning him is fine and even the guy who got banned admits that.
The problem comes when he is locked out of the activation servers. This is inexcusable but again, it isn't about free speech. They grounded him from his own games for 3 days...that is beyond their legal reach and also it is unethical.
Pretty much this, but there's an additdional problem.
From what I understand, this occurred because enough people reported his post...at which point an automated EA (not Bioware--they are not precisely blameless, but it's not their setup that caused the suspension) system decided to do the ban. Now I understand that Bioware mods are probably swamped right now, and EA's attitude towards its customers tells me that it just can't be arsed, but allowing a machine whose only criteria is counting flags to make a decision preventing a guy from playing a game he paid money for, even temporarily, is beyond my fucking comprehension.
It's just stupid design. And the absolute worst part is, the rules cited seem to indicate they can do a permanent ban in this way.
Sud0_x: Just wanted to clarify for people, he wasn't banned from playing his games for 72 hours, he was suspended from the Bioware forums for 72 hours, after which he made that thread.
So he came back from a forum suspension only to discover he'd been EA Community banned and couldn't activate his game or play his old games with the DLC he'd paid for. Thought I'd spell it out for the many of you who can't read... Honestly some of you people are pants on head.. silly. Yeah you're silly. At least do some fucking research before you go writing dumbass replies to people. Am I still the butthurt fanboy elitist? This shit is getting old. Good day.
In the end he was grounded from his games because of behavior on the forums. That is the problem here.
And I think that's bullshit. There. Those are my thoughts on the matter.
Also, I just re-read that forum post and apparently he posted that from another account, so maybe his EA community ban will be lifted to coincide with the end of the suspension, I'm not sure. I'm just tired of all the people not having any general courtesy or actually reading up on the subject material before they begin crazed arguments with one another, turned out rather ironic considering I mis-read the OP's forum link myself. You don't seem like a bad fellow so thanks for not being completely batshit insane but I think I've had enough of the subject.
Yes, I saw this stuff coming too. I made a fuss over the SC2 cheating/banning thing but I was shouted down, this is just a step beyond that. I am glad that most people are finally fighting back. It's about time.
EULA's have some purpose, they can be used to keep an online community in check and allow moderation and banning for legitimate reasons (like cheating), but this isn't about banning because of cheating. This is about refusing a product because of personal reasons. If the OP had been banned from his games for stealing DLC or generally making the experience less enjoyable for others I wouldn't bother defending him.
A EULA should be a promise from a company to protect you from toxic community by banning those who would attempt to bring down the experience for everyone. This is not one of those cases, this is a case of pure company hubris.
This all arises from Bioware's stance of trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want the funding benefits of being under a major publisher, but also want the creative benefits of being self publishing. They cant have both, and as long as they hide under EA's funding they need to own up to the fact that they don't own their intellectual property, its all EA.
Hulten: Well shit. I get the banning, but cutting him off from the game he bought? That doesn't seem right. I get his ignorance though. Not reading what you agree to is within their rights as long as you hit the yes option. I just see it as a very harsh punishment for something so small.
Though it is wrong. your hands are tied if you make an agreement to it.
There seems to be this attitude that clicking "I Agree" trumps consumer protection laws, it doesn't.
Well... when you say like that... But what can the guy really do to such an agreement? It even says in the beginning that by clicking yes you have read and agree with all the terms? It just seems like an uphill battle. I know it is wrong what they did, but what can you do?
Bioware better man up and get used to being criticised before TOR is released, because whatever negativity DA2 has attracted will be totally eclipsed by the sort of feedback they will inevitably get from subscription paying MMO players, no matter how good the game is.
Hulten: Well shit. I get the banning, but cutting him off from the game he bought? That doesn't seem right. I get his ignorance though. Not reading what you agree to is within their rights as long as you hit the yes option. I just see it as a very harsh punishment for something so small.
Though it is wrong. your hands are tied if you make an agreement to it.
There seems to be this attitude that clicking "I Agree" trumps consumer protection laws, it doesn't.
Well... when you say like that... But what can the guy really do to such an agreement? It even says in the beginning that by clicking yes you have read and agree with all the terms? It just seems like an uphill battle. I know it is wrong what they did, but what can you do?
You give the EULA so much power. Legally, it has none until a court says it does. To most people "I agree" is the same as "Next" and rightly so, it's a bunch of hard to understand legal jargon that has no legal power.
However, companies know that they Joe Gamer can't afford to fight them so they take their chances with EULA's and people give them their power.
ImprovizoR: What they did is illegal. It's that simple. It's his opinion and his right to free speech.
Free speech just applies to the government making law not private companies. Wasn't there a thread about this awhile ago?
Bioware may make good games but they have shit for customer service. About a year ago they did a contest thing-long story short there was a big issue but the customer service people just stayed silent on the issue after they threatened bans (like this guys).
This is one reason I won't be playing their MMO, you need good CS for MMO's and they have some of the worst.
The kid was an ass. And EA was also an ass. But it will be EA that suffers more merely because it couldn't be the bigger man. You guys here talking about it are pretty much an indicator of that.
So, question is...why're we still having this conversation? There's nothing left!
If I buy something for 60s dollars and am not satisfied, it's my right to be an ass. It's my property. I can say I dislike it.
Anyone who dosen't see a problem with this has to be blind. They can revoke your right to something you own, my fucking government can't even do that.
Again, I said that EA was also an ass. The concensus I see here is that both parties lacked when one or both of them should not have. This isn't an opinion. This is what I see the thread coming to in terms of a conclusion. Neither side did what they should, so both of 'em are taking a hit in some way.
Eri: Well if you sucker-punch a heavy weight boxer, you shouldn't be surprised when he turns around and clocks you. If you get sanctioned on steam, the sane thing happens, you're locked out of your games. If he's that unhappy with them, fuck if I know why he bought it.
Is it unreasonable to think he has the right to use the product he bought!?
This is just added incentive to pirate their games and not rely on their draconian DRM measures which now are used to BULLY people into not criticizing them. Apparently EA is far too corporate to realize that ass raping users won't make more flock to them. Bioware accepts this kind of over-the-top reaction to critical users, which puts them on exactly the same level as EA. Even if users hit a button to report a post, that does NOT excuse them barring a user from a legally bought and paid for game.
Dear user Even though you have bought a game from us for fifty Euro we deem it appropriate that we remove all of your on site abilities. Remember our employees work hard to bring you the games that you love. saying we have "sold our souls to the EA devil" was found to be hurtful by one of our moderators and several of our employees. we have suspended all rights from you as you have shown no respect for the people who make the interactive experiences that you all enjoy. It was however not our decision to completely cut off your account, we had a representative from our publisher (EA) looking at our work on a new project we are working on. When this representative saw the email that was being sent about this particular comment, he demanded action. Also all these new measures that apparently annoy many of you when you are buying one of our or any other of EA's games, are there to protect people from piracy.
yours sincerely fishy McSketcherson
p.s. we still own our products so f&%k off! p.p.s. this isn't from bioware or EA
There seems to be this attitude that clicking "I Agree" trumps consumer protection laws, it doesn't.
Well... when you say like that... But what can the guy really do to such an agreement? It even says in the beginning that by clicking yes you have read and agree with all the terms? It just seems like an uphill battle. I know it is wrong what they did, but what can you do?
You give the EULA so much power. Legally, it has none until a court says it does. To most people "I agree" is the same as "Next" and rightly so, it's a bunch of hard to understand legal jargon that has no legal power.
However, companies know that they Joe Gamer can't afford to fight them so they take their chances with EULA's and people give them their power.
Well then... how would one person go about suing a company? It all just brings me back to the uphill battle thing. Even a court would have it's hands tied if they have an agreement on paper. There is no excuse for ignorance in the court of law. He can't just walk into a court room and say "Oh well I didn't know." and then expect it to go well.
NotSoNimble: One thing I've learned in life is that people being punished are almost never honest when talking about it during or after they 'pay the piper'.
I have never heard of a forum suspension having any other repercussion other than use on a forum tho.
EDIT: The MOD says:
""Please review the EA Community Terms of Service, particularly sections #9 and #11. There are two levels of enforcement here:
1. BioWare community bans are forum-only and can be for as little as 24 hours. These bans should have no effect on your game, only your ability to use all the features of this website/community. these bans are handed out by BioWare Moderators as the result of our travels around the forum and/or issues reported by fellow community members.
2. EA Community bans come down from a different department and are the result of someone hitting the REPORT POST button. These bans can affect access to your game and/or DLC.
Because the BioWare community now operates under the same umbrella as all EA Communities, community members here have all explicitly agreed to abide by and be governed by both sets of rules. Consider it an added incentive to follow the rules you say you're going to follow.
If there are further questions or concerns, please send them to me via private message. Thank you.
End of line.""
Guess that answers that. It's what you get for not reading the rules you agree to.
You can't even take a shit nowadays without signing an EULA, is it his fault for not expecting them to do something so ridiculous?
Well... when you say like that... But what can the guy really do to such an agreement? It even says in the beginning that by clicking yes you have read and agree with all the terms? It just seems like an uphill battle. I know it is wrong what they did, but what can you do?
You give the EULA so much power. Legally, it has none until a court says it does. To most people "I agree" is the same as "Next" and rightly so, it's a bunch of hard to understand legal jargon that has no legal power.
However, companies know that they Joe Gamer can't afford to fight them so they take their chances with EULA's and people give them their power.
Well then... how would one person go about suing a company? It all just brings me back to the uphill battle thing. Even a court would have it's hands tied if they have an agreement on paper. There is no excuse for ignorance in the court of law. He can't just walk into a court room and say "Oh well I didn't know." and then expect it to go well.
Talk to a lawyer about that but just because something is on paper (or on a computer screen) doesn't make it legally binding. If anything in the EULA contradicts consumer protection laws, it will fail I would imagine. You cannot sign away your rights.
Holy crap, usually I don't pay attention much to this kind of thing, but this is absolutely ridiculous. What the hell is wrong with them? I have every right to play a goddamn game if I want to, regardless of what I think of their company.
well looking at what he has said it looks very much to me like theft or breach of contract and a violation of freedom of speech. especially as his comment was pretty tame
sure they could ban him from the forum but to withhold his game content for that is just blatant flaunting of freedom of speech laws.
I hope some ravenous FoS lawyer offers him free legal. EA would get there heads kicked in (metaphorically speaking) if this got to court (well assuming he is in a country with FoS laws)
Dansrage: But the question is, do they have the RIGHT to do anything about it? It wasn't even real criticism, it was more of a joke than anything. I quote: "Have you sold your souls to the EA devil?"
That isn't even an opinion worth censoring if you ask me, it's like shooting someone for saying you have a silly hat.
Ah, but the crux of the matter is, does the post get dealt with by a moderator, or does he get banned from the community, because someone from the Bible Belt is busy on these forums with Ctrl + F and is rather overzealous in their quest to remove profanity and references to anything which is seen as bad in that area of the world (See for further reference what happened with Harry Potter, in certain US States).
It might be that enough people complaining about the post gets the user temporarily banned until a moderator can look at the post. Hell, they're only human and might look at this post in a mood that doesn't wash with the humour or the context of the thread at that time, thus ban for what would seem a harsh reason.
I don't think I would have banned for it, but then I'm not a member of the EA Community and I'm not sure I'd want to be, if I were censored at every turn like that, to be honest.
The kid was an ass. And EA was also an ass. But it will be EA that suffers more merely because it couldn't be the bigger man. You guys here talking about it are pretty much an indicator of that.
So, question is...why're we still having this conversation? There's nothing left!
If I buy something for 60s dollars and am not satisfied, it's my right to be an ass. It's my property. I can say I dislike it.
Anyone who dosen't see a problem with this has to be blind. They can revoke your right to something you own, my fucking government can't even do that.
Again, I said that EA was also an ass. The concensus I see here is that both parties lacked when one or both of them should not have. This isn't an opinion. This is what I see the thread coming to in terms of a conclusion. Neither side did what they should, so both of 'em are taking a hit in some way.
The difference is one party has a right to be upset, the other dose not. one party spent currency for a service denied to him after the fact, the other did not.
NotSoNimble: One thing I've learned in life is that people being punished are almost never honest when talking about it during or after they 'pay the piper'.
It's what you get for not reading the rules you agree to.
You can't even take a shit nowadays without signing an EULA, is it his fault for not expecting them to do something so ridiculous?
I shit without signing an EULA. I don't troll EA either.
It is his fault for breaking his contract with them.
I bet a dollar he did more than just post the one little sentence he claims at the beginning of that thread too. If you act like an ass, you can lose money. It's like buying a ticket to a movie then screaming your lungs out when you sit down. They can, and will, throw your ass out, and you won't get a refund. This guy is only getting a slap on the wrist by not being able to play for a few days.
EDIT: Was he bitching about DA2? If that was what his complaining about EA was for, I find this rather funny.
You give the EULA so much power. Legally, it has none until a court says it does. To most people "I agree" is the same as "Next" and rightly so, it's a bunch of hard to understand legal jargon that has no legal power.
However, companies know that they Joe Gamer can't afford to fight them so they take their chances with EULA's and people give them their power.
Well then... how would one person go about suing a company? It all just brings me back to the uphill battle thing. Even a court would have it's hands tied if they have an agreement on paper. There is no excuse for ignorance in the court of law. He can't just walk into a court room and say "Oh well I didn't know." and then expect it to go well.
Talk to a lawyer about that but just because something is on paper (or on a computer screen) doesn't make it legally binding. If anything in the EULA contradicts consumer protection laws, it will fail I would imagine. You cannot sign away your rights.
Honestly I don't know which way to lean here right now. I want to root for the guy. I want to be on his side. I just don't see taking action working out so well. I'm at ends right now.
Ea IS the devil, and its here to do the devils work!
Also all its executives sacrifice infants to a goat demon they then suckle and the advertising/pr department is full of subhuman retards defecating in their own hands and smearing it across the walls and giggling. As for all the programmers, well their in shackles being whipped and cursed at forced to write code with only an hours sleep and bread and water to sustain them, when one dies he/she is left out back in the trash to be collected by the bin man.
just kidding, though banning someone for a simple comment like that sounds petty and spiteful and hell people might start BELIVING the above comments...
(after recent advertising debacles i'm starting to believe the one about the advertising and pr department)
If I buy something for 60s dollars and am not satisfied, it's my right to be an ass. It's my property. I can say I dislike it.
Anyone who dosen't see a problem with this has to be blind. They can revoke your right to something you own, my fucking government can't even do that.
Again, I said that EA was also an ass. The concensus I see here is that both parties lacked when one or both of them should not have. This isn't an opinion. This is what I see the thread coming to in terms of a conclusion. Neither side did what they should, so both of 'em are taking a hit in some way.
The difference is one party has a right to be upset, the other dose not. one party spent currency for a service denied to him after the fact, the other did not.
As I read it, many are inclined to believe that basically saying it right in EA's own back yard isn't bright even if they ARE being something of a dictatorship. The reality is that the strict site is there and he should've probably been wise to EA going off half-cocked. Nobody was thinking, so nobody really wins. Though, EA won't get back the amount of people citing a boycott on them so easily. Nevermind what should. This is what did. If you're going to badmouth EA on some level...do it here!
I'm honestly amazed that there was any punishment for that. That's just ridiculous, they clearly have sold their souls to the EA devil, and there is no denying they are truly one of the great evils of this world.
NotSoNimble: One thing I've learned in life is that people being punished are almost never honest when talking about it during or after they 'pay the piper'.
It's what you get for not reading the rules you agree to.
You can't even take a shit nowadays without signing an EULA, is it his fault for not expecting them to do something so ridiculous?
I shit without signing an EULA. I don't troll EA either.
It is his fault for breaking his contract with them.
I bet a dollar he did more than just post the one little sentence he claims at the beginning of that thread too. If you act like an ass, you can lose money. It's like buying a ticket to a movie then screaming your lungs out when you sit down. They can, and will, throw your ass out, and you won't get a refund. This guy is only getting a slap on the wrist by not being able to play for a few days.
EDIT: Was he bitching about DA2? If that was what his complaining about EA was for, I find this rather funny.
In a movie theater you get kicked out for hindering others ability to use what they paid for (IE, watch the movie) I don't care if he called everyone at Bioware a Nazi, he paid for the game, and he isn't stopping others from playing it, do you read every EULA before you click agree? Because if you don't (and I'm sure you don't) you can't expect him to, there are limits on what EULA's allow you to do, for example, if EA put a clause in the EULA that said they reserve the right to rape you they still wouldn't be allowed to do it.
I wouldn't be surprised if what they did is illegal.
We really need some gamer to sue some of those companies for actions like this. They wouldn't get away with this in any reasonable country with functional law system.
Legal fees to take a major entity such as EA to court for a 50 pound game isn't really worth it. Its not even worth it for the principle.
I disagree.
The industry need a groundbreaking case to set precedent on DRM, the consumer's right to their product, etc.
This shit has gone on long enough.
Agreed. All the massive bullshit they pull with EULA's is just awful. And I don't know whats worse, the fact that they continue doing so much anti-consumer bullshit, or the fact that the consumers don't do anything about it.
Hell, i'd want it to rule in favor of DRM if it means to finally be done with argueing over this shit.
You can't even take a shit nowadays without signing an EULA, is it his fault for not expecting them to do something so ridiculous?
I shit without signing an EULA. I don't troll EA either.
It is his fault for breaking his contract with them.
I bet a dollar he did more than just post the one little sentence he claims at the beginning of that thread too. If you act like an ass, you can lose money. It's like buying a ticket to a movie then screaming your lungs out when you sit down. They can, and will, throw your ass out, and you won't get a refund. This guy is only getting a slap on the wrist by not being able to play for a few days.
EDIT: Was he bitching about DA2? If that was what his complaining about EA was for, I find this rather funny.
In a movie theater you get kicked out for hindering others ability to use what they paid for (IE, watch the movie) I don't care if he called everyone at Bioware a Nazi, he paid for the game, and he isn't stopping others from playing it, do you read every EULA before you click agree? Because if you don't (and I'm sure you don't) you can't expect him to, there are limits on what EULA's allow you to do, for example, if EA put a clause in the EULA that said they reserve the right to rape you they still wouldn't be allowed to do it.
I wouldn't be surprised if what they did is illegal.
They have a right to suspend the service of their servers. This is, at best, a valid legal reason to get a refund for buying his game(s). If you want to tempt the law, beware of consequences. I for one think you should read the rules carefully if your going to engage in behavior you know isn't proper or decent.
Who am I to say what is proper or decent you ask? Just some guy.
I don't know what will happen with this in the next few days. I don't really care that much, but I am enjoying the show, and not trolling.
Oh yeah, thank you to EA and Bioware for an awesome game. Dragon Age 2 is really fun.
Wow really? well if they are going to start stuff like that, Ill just take my business elsewhere.