Let's Play: Knights of the Old Republic COMPLETE

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woodaba	71 POSTED: 3 Feb 2012 08:46
	AD-Stu: I'm interested to see exactly how bad they get - the only time I've ever played this game through to the end I opted to avoid the romance because I played my character as the goodiest of goody-two-shoes and... well, we all saw how badly getting laid turned out for Anikin, didn't we :P The way you're handling the long conversations looks fine to me BTW. I think it more comes down to the fact that the two characters you can romance are the most dull, stereotypical, uninteresting, bland companions you pick up. They may not be all that bad depending on how you look at them, they're just a pet peeve of mine. We'll get to them eventually.

CM156	72 POSTED: 5 Feb 2012 19:00
	woodaba: AD-Stu: I'm interested to see exactly how bad they get - the only time I've ever played this game through to the end I opted to avoid the romance because I played my character as the goodiest of goody-two-shoes and... well, we all saw how badly getting laid turned out for Anikin, didn't we :P The way you're handling the long conversations looks fine to me BTW. I think it more comes down to the fact that the two characters you can romance are the most dull, stereotypical, uninteresting, bland companions you pick up. They may not be all that bad depending on how you look at them, they're just a pet peeve of mine. We'll get to them eventually. That tends to be the problem with romances in games, is that they come off as very token most of the time. Mostly because the way it's done is not the way most adults behave.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s	73 POSTED: 5 Feb 2012 19:39
	Bleugh... Mission and Zaalbar leave a very sour taste in my mouth. I like the idea of Mission: a streetwise punk who helps the player navigate the seamy underworld of Taris. I just never really believed her as a character. She's spent her whole life living in the slums of an alien-hating city, yet is still so annoyingly upbeat and optimistic all the time. She's like one of those 90s cartoon characters who tried to be 'edgy' and 'totally radical dude' while being wholesome and family friendly at the same time. If you're going to give me a hobo teenager with a lifetime of abandonment and poverty issues, give me someone with a chip on their shoulder, someone with a bit of venom and bile. Not some sanctimonious pre-teen who uses baby insults and her Wookie companion as a shield. As for Zaalbar... it's like they took Chewbacca and neutered him while he was still a baby. Again, a peaceful Wookie isn't a bad concept in itself, but the way they portray Zaalbar, it's more of a chore to interact with him than anything. Spoiler: Click to View I wholeheartedly recommend that any chance you get to screw over Mission and Zaalbar in pursuit of Dark Side points, you do so to the best of your ability. I know you get the opportunity to royally fuck them over later in the game, and miserable bastard that I am, I implore you to be the most evil git you can when talking to them.

woodaba	74 POSTED: 5 Feb 2012 22:33
	UPDATE 5: OUR ZOMBIES ARE DIFFERENT Sorry about the delay on this one. Went to a hotel over the weekend, forgot to bring laptop. Spoiler: Click to View Question Time! We've all been there, a game/movie/play/book/comic/whatever is based on a really good idea, but for some reason, it just ends up being squandered. Has this ever happened to you? If so, what is the most grievous example?

CM156	75 POSTED: 5 Feb 2012 23:34
	woodaba: UPDATE 5: OUR ZOMBIES ARE DIFFERENT Sorry about the delay on this one. Went to a hotel over the weekend, forgot to bring laptop. Spoiler: Click to View Question Time! We've all been there, a game/movie/play/book/comic/whatever is based on a really good idea, but for some reason, it just ends up being squandered. Has this ever happened to you? If so, what is the most grievous example? I'm going to have to say Dragon Age 2. There was the potential for a really great idea there, which was lost. Oh, and I'm told Deus Ex: Invisible War is like that, though I've never played it.

woodaba	76 POSTED: 6 Feb 2012 07:29
	CM156: woodaba: UPDATE 5: OUR ZOMBIES ARE DIFFERENT Sorry about the delay on this one. Went to a hotel over the weekend, forgot to bring laptop. Spoiler: Click to View Question Time! We've all been there, a game/movie/play/book/comic/whatever is based on a really good idea, but for some reason, it just ends up being squandered. Has this ever happened to you? If so, what is the most grievous example? I'm going to have to say Dragon Age 2. There was the potential for a really great idea there, which was lost. Oh, and I'm told Deus Ex: Invisible War is like that, though I've never played it. Invisible War was made by sadists who wanted to see exactly how badly they could fuck up Deus Ex. The answer: A lot. I liked Dragon Age II though. It had its flaws, but I thought the main story was much better than Origins' was, even though Origins is a vastly superior game in every other aspect.

CM156	77 POSTED: 6 Feb 2012 07:40
	woodaba: CM156: woodaba: UPDATE 5: OUR ZOMBIES ARE DIFFERENT Sorry about the delay on this one. Went to a hotel over the weekend, forgot to bring laptop. Spoiler: Click to View Question Time! We've all been there, a game/movie/play/book/comic/whatever is based on a really good idea, but for some reason, it just ends up being squandered. Has this ever happened to you? If so, what is the most grievous example? I'm going to have to say Dragon Age 2. There was the potential for a really great idea there, which was lost. Oh, and I'm told Deus Ex: Invisible War is like that, though I've never played it. Invisible War was made by sadists who wanted to see exactly how badly they could fuck up Deus Ex. The answer: A lot. I liked Dragon Age II though. It had its flaws, but I thought the main story was much better than Origins' was, even though Origins is a vastly superior game in every other aspect. I only just got Deus Ex. And the verdict so far is that I'm really not good at it. Like, at ALL. Eh, I don't know about the story. All I know is that I hope they improve the formula when DA :III comes out.

woodaba	78 POSTED: 6 Feb 2012 07:45
	CM156: woodaba: CM156: I'm going to have to say Dragon Age 2. There was the potential for a really great idea there, which was lost. Oh, and I'm told Deus Ex: Invisible War is like that, though I've never played it. Invisible War was made by sadists who wanted to see exactly how badly they could fuck up Deus Ex. The answer: A lot. I liked Dragon Age II though. It had its flaws, but I thought the main story was much better than Origins' was, even though Origins is a vastly superior game in every other aspect. I only just got Deus Ex. And the verdict so far is that I'm really not good at it. Like, at ALL. Eh, I don't know about the story. All I know is that I hope they improve the formula when DA :III comes out. Bioware said they are looking at Skyrim for inspiration for DA:III. Read: EA looked at the, frankly, ridiculous success of Skyrim and said "We want some of that. Bioware! Make a Skyrim clone!" So, no chance of the formula improving then. Everyone is bad at Deus Ex when they start out. Its a game that takes a lot of getting used to.

MacNille	79 POSTED: 6 Feb 2012 07:50
	The ending to DA 2 pissed me off so much, that i still hate it.

woodaba	80 POSTED: 6 Feb 2012 07:59
	MacNille: The ending to DA 2 pissed me off so much, that i still hate it. The ending was atrocious, but the final battle of Kirkwall was very well done, I thought. You really saw the flaws in both sides, the heroes and villains that occupied both sides of the conflict. Spoiler: Click to View

CM156	81 POSTED: 6 Feb 2012 15:46
	woodaba: MacNille: The ending to DA 2 pissed me off so much, that i still hate it. The ending was atrocious, but the final battle of Kirkwall was very well done, I thought. You really saw the flaws in both sides, the heroes and villains that occupied both sides of the conflict. Spoiler: Click to View I wish there was a third option rather than siding with the templars or mages. A "I-Am-going-to-protect-the-citizens-so-don't-get-in-my-way" option. But no. You have to pick.

woodaba	82 POSTED: 6 Feb 2012 16:54
	CM156: woodaba: MacNille: The ending to DA 2 pissed me off so much, that i still hate it. The ending was atrocious, but the final battle of Kirkwall was very well done, I thought. You really saw the flaws in both sides, the heroes and villains that occupied both sides of the conflict. Spoiler: Click to View I wish there was a third option rather than siding with the templars or mages. A "I-Am-going-to-protect-the-citizens-so-don't-get-in-my-way" option. But no. You have to pick. I think that's the point. The relentless extremism of both sides would paint you as an enemy to both in the "If you're not with me you're against me" kind of vibe. Hawke had interacted with both factions to a large extent throughout his life, and thus, was skirting a very dangerous line. Ultimately, if Hawke had just said "Fuck all of you." (which is what I wanted to say) he probably would have been killed right then and there.

CM156	83 POSTED: 6 Feb 2012 17:12
	woodaba: CM156: woodaba: The ending was atrocious, but the final battle of Kirkwall was very well done, I thought. You really saw the flaws in both sides, the heroes and villains that occupied both sides of the conflict. Spoiler: Click to View I wish there was a third option rather than siding with the templars or mages. A "I-Am-going-to-protect-the-citizens-so-don't-get-in-my-way" option. But no. You have to pick. I think that's the point. The relentless extremism of both sides would paint you as an enemy to both in the "If you're not with me you're against me" kind of vibe. Hawke had interacted with both factions to a large extent throughout his life, and thus, was skirting a very dangerous line. Ultimately, if Hawke had just said "Fuck all of you." (which is what I wanted to say) he probably would have been killed right then and there. Really, what I wanted to do was flay Anders alive. What an asshole But yea, I suppose I can see a sort of forced-dichotomy Personally, I agreed with the Templars. Because mages were freaking crazy Spoiler: Click to View

woodaba	84 POSTED: 6 Feb 2012 22:41
	Update Six: Alas, poor Hendar. I knew him, Horatio. Spoiler: Click to View Question time! Morality systems are pretty common in games nowadays. However, in a lot of cases, they are just crammed in there for no good reason. Have there been any games were the Morality System ended up detracting from the experience? For me, the most egrecious example has got to be the absolutely diabolical 2005 release Shadow the Hedgehog. That game is brain poison. See you tomorrow!

CM156	85 POSTED: 7 Feb 2012 00:03
	woodaba: Update Six: Alas, poor Hendar. I knew him, Horatio. Spoiler: Click to View Question time! Morality systems are pretty common in games nowadays. However, in a lot of cases, they are just crammed in there for no good reason. Have there been any games were the Morality System ended up detracting from the experience? For me, the most egrecious example has got to be the absolutely diabolical 2005 release Shadow the Hedgehog. That game is brain poison. See you tomorrow! I think Fable 2 had a pretty bad choice system. Granted, the game would have been worse without it. But when the choice is "Help the baby" or "Eat the baby", you begin to think that sometimes, evil characters are just evil for... fun.

AD-Stu	86 POSTED: 7 Feb 2012 01:25
	woodaba: Question time! Morality systems are pretty common in games nowadays. However, in a lot of cases, they are just crammed in there for no good reason. Have there been any games were the Morality System ended up detracting from the experience? For me, the most egrecious example has got to be the absolutely diabolical 2005 release Shadow the Hedgehog. That game is brain poison. See you tomorrow! One of the ones I think was most horribly broken was Dragon Age: Origins. Having to manage your influence with each of your companions was a good way to approach it but they broke the whole thing when they allowed you to max out influence with everyone just by giving them shiny things. There was a screenshot double-up early in the conversation with Rukil in the latest update, BTW. Enjoying the updates, it's been ages since I've played this game and there's all sorts of stuff that I forgot happened. And I totally agree about the objective pileup, particularly in this section...

woodaba	87 POSTED: 7 Feb 2012 07:21
	AD-Stu: woodaba: Question time! Morality systems are pretty common in games nowadays. However, in a lot of cases, they are just crammed in there for no good reason. Have there been any games were the Morality System ended up detracting from the experience? For me, the most egrecious example has got to be the absolutely diabolical 2005 release Shadow the Hedgehog. That game is brain poison. See you tomorrow! One of the ones I think was most horribly broken was Dragon Age: Origins. Having to manage your influence with each of your companions was a good way to approach it but they broke the whole thing when they allowed you to max out influence with everyone just by giving them shiny things. There was a screenshot double-up early in the conversation with Rukil in the latest update, BTW. Enjoying the updates, it's been ages since I've played this game and there's all sorts of stuff that I forgot happened. And I totally agree about the objective pileup, particularly in this section... Oh, crap, I'll get that sorted once I get back from work. Thanks for pointing it out! I totally agree. Dragon Age had probably the best choice system out there...and then they went and ruined it with those ridiculous gifts. It's all right if you are a hateful person with no redeeming qualities, just give them a flower every now and then and they'll fall in love with you.

MacNille	88 POSTED: 7 Feb 2012 10:07
	Just wanna say, that when you get to the moment where you can betrayd the hidden beks, don't. they are the only decent person on the planet.

woodaba	89 POSTED: 7 Feb 2012 16:34
	MacNille: Just wanna say, that when you get to the moment where you can betrayd the hidden beks, don't. they are the only decent person on the planet. We'll have a vote when that choice comes up. Viva la Democracy!

woodaba	90 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 18:42
	UPDATE 7: THE OBLIGATORY SEWER LEVEL The Escapist has been a bitch recently, which has made this update harder to get out than usual. Spoiler: Click to View Question Time! Following on last time's question about Moral Choice, has there ever been a choice you simply could not make? For example, finding an Evil option so horrible that you simply could not go through with it.

CM156	91 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 19:31
	woodaba: UPDATE 7: THE OBLIGATORY SEWER LEVEL The Escapist has been a bitch recently, which has made this update harder to get out than usual. Spoiler: Click to View Question Time! Following on last time's question about Moral Choice, has there ever been a choice you simply could not make? For example, finding an Evil option so horrible that you simply could not go through with it. Ah yes, yes there was. I rarely play evil characters, so I have quite a few problems when I do. I loathe to kill children and the elderly, and at least give my foes a fighting chance. That's why I tend to do good, even if there's no reward, or even if it costs me.

woodaba	92 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 19:34
	CM156: woodaba: UPDATE 7: THE OBLIGATORY SEWER LEVEL The Escapist has been a bitch recently, which has made this update harder to get out than usual. Spoiler: Click to View Question Time! Following on last time's question about Moral Choice, has there ever been a choice you simply could not make? For example, finding an Evil option so horrible that you simply could not go through with it. Ah yes, yes there was. I rarely play evil characters, so I have quite a few problems when I do. I loathe to kill children and the elderly, and at least give my foes a fighting chance. That's why I tend to do good, even if there's no reward, or even if it costs me. Same with me. I have tried playing "evil" in Planescape: Torment no less than 3 times, and each and every time I can't get past the tutorial.

boag	93 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 19:45
	nice, I was thinking of playing this game while I waited for ME3. Thanks for Making a LP, its ridiculous to see how much this game gets Bioware praise, while at the same time ME2 gets Bioware hate. most of the systems in this game are incredibly redundant and the combat is made for MMO gameplay (not good at all). Half the character dialogue is lifted in some form from direct Star Wars quotes which is amusing for the first couple of lines of, hey they said that in the movies yay. Lastly most of the interactions have you be either a complete dick or saint, which is standard fare for most games now a days yet it another point for which this particular game gets praise. Anyways good job on the LP, have been enjoying it, its been certainly helpful in some situations of my own game and has help me get tremendous insights into the whole OMG BIOWARE SUCKS NOW arguments some people have made.

woodaba	94 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 19:54
	boag: nice, I was thinking of playing this game while I waited for ME3. Thanks for Making a LP, its ridiculous to see how much this game gets Bioware praise, while at the same time ME2 gets Bioware hate. most of the systems in this game are incredibly redundant and the combat is made for MMO gameplay (not good at all). Half the character dialogue is lifted in some form from direct Star Wars quotes which is amusing for the first couple of lines of, hey they said that in the movies yay. Lastly most of the interactions have you be either a complete dick or saint, which is standard fare for most games now a days yet it another point for which this particular game gets praise. Anyways good job on the LP, have been enjoying it, its been certainly helpful in some situations of my own game and has help me get tremendous insights into the whole OMG BIOWARE SUCKS NOW arguments some people have made. Not a problem, my good friend, thank you for the kind words. I really don't agree with the "Bioware sucks now" thing, but I can sort of understand it. Their games have become progressively more streamlined as time had gone on, and some people have reacted more violently to that than others.

boag	95 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 19:59
	woodaba: boag: nice, I was thinking of playing this game while I waited for ME3. Thanks for Making a LP, its ridiculous to see how much this game gets Bioware praise, while at the same time ME2 gets Bioware hate. most of the systems in this game are incredibly redundant and the combat is made for MMO gameplay (not good at all). Half the character dialogue is lifted in some form from direct Star Wars quotes which is amusing for the first couple of lines of, hey they said that in the movies yay. Lastly most of the interactions have you be either a complete dick or saint, which is standard fare for most games now a days yet it another point for which this particular game gets praise. Anyways good job on the LP, have been enjoying it, its been certainly helpful in some situations of my own game and has help me get tremendous insights into the whole OMG BIOWARE SUCKS NOW arguments some people have made. Not a problem, my good friend, thank you for the kind words. I really don't agree with the "Bioware sucks now" thing, but I can sort of understand it. Their games have become progressively more streamlined as time had gone on, and some people have reacted more violently to that than others. Yeah, but to be frank ive enjoyed the streamline combat more than the monotonous MMO feel of SWTOR, If the game had an actual tactical edge instead of skill spamming I would have agreed that it was a dumbing down of the gameplay, but so far I havent found a situation where I couldnt stun bash my way through a fight. Also, I was so very surprised to see how ME literally pulled plot points out of this old game.

woodaba	96 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 20:03
	boag: woodaba: boag: nice, I was thinking of playing this game while I waited for ME3. Thanks for Making a LP, its ridiculous to see how much this game gets Bioware praise, while at the same time ME2 gets Bioware hate. most of the systems in this game are incredibly redundant and the combat is made for MMO gameplay (not good at all). Half the character dialogue is lifted in some form from direct Star Wars quotes which is amusing for the first couple of lines of, hey they said that in the movies yay. Lastly most of the interactions have you be either a complete dick or saint, which is standard fare for most games now a days yet it another point for which this particular game gets praise. Anyways good job on the LP, have been enjoying it, its been certainly helpful in some situations of my own game and has help me get tremendous insights into the whole OMG BIOWARE SUCKS NOW arguments some people have made. Not a problem, my good friend, thank you for the kind words. I really don't agree with the "Bioware sucks now" thing, but I can sort of understand it. Their games have become progressively more streamlined as time had gone on, and some people have reacted more violently to that than others. Yeah, but to be frank ive enjoyed the streamline combat more than the monotonous MMO feel of SWTOR, If the game had an actual tactical edge instead of skill spamming I would have agreed that it was a dumbing down of the gameplay, but so far I havent found a situation where I couldnt stun bash my way through a fight. Also, I was so very surprised to see how ME literally pulled plot points out of this old game. When ME first came out, there were many complaints that it was KoTOR without Jedi. It wasn't until ME2 that Mass Effect really forged an identity of its own, at least in my opinion.

boag	97 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 20:08
	woodaba: boag: woodaba: Not a problem, my good friend, thank you for the kind words. I really don't agree with the "Bioware sucks now" thing, but I can sort of understand it. Their games have become progressively more streamlined as time had gone on, and some people have reacted more violently to that than others. Yeah, but to be frank ive enjoyed the streamline combat more than the monotonous MMO feel of SWTOR, If the game had an actual tactical edge instead of skill spamming I would have agreed that it was a dumbing down of the gameplay, but so far I havent found a situation where I couldnt stun bash my way through a fight. Also, I was so very surprised to see how ME literally pulled plot points out of this old game. When ME first came out, there were many complaints that it was KoTOR without Jedi. It wasn't until ME2 that Mass Effect really forged an identity of its own, at least in my opinion. interesting, I still need to see how the ending for SWTOR turns out, but I can definitely see now where lots of the ME universe got its story form. In the end I must say that ME is a better executed Franchise than SW.

CM156	98 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 22:07
	woodaba: CM156: woodaba: UPDATE 7: THE OBLIGATORY SEWER LEVEL The Escapist has been a bitch recently, which has made this update harder to get out than usual. Spoiler: Click to View Question Time! Following on last time's question about Moral Choice, has there ever been a choice you simply could not make? For example, finding an Evil option so horrible that you simply could not go through with it. Ah yes, yes there was. I rarely play evil characters, so I have quite a few problems when I do. I loathe to kill children and the elderly, and at least give my foes a fighting chance. That's why I tend to do good, even if there's no reward, or even if it costs me. Same with me. I have tried playing "evil" in Planescape: Torment no less than 3 times, and each and every time I can't get past the tutorial. I played "evil" in MotB once. It was... well... Damn evil. That's the only way to describe my character. He went from NE to CE very quickly. There wasn't a single good thing about him. In my defense though, souls are tasty.

woodaba	99 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 22:30
	CM156: woodaba: CM156: Ah yes, yes there was. I rarely play evil characters, so I have quite a few problems when I do. I loathe to kill children and the elderly, and at least give my foes a fighting chance. That's why I tend to do good, even if there's no reward, or even if it costs me. Same with me. I have tried playing "evil" in Planescape: Torment no less than 3 times, and each and every time I can't get past the tutorial. I played "evil" in MotB once. It was... well... Damn evil. That's the only way to describe my character. He went from NE to CE very quickly. There wasn't a single good thing about him. In my defense though, souls are tasty. Cookie monster agrees with your statement. He's considering changing his name to "Soul Monster"

CM156	100 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 22:33
	woodaba: CM156: woodaba: Same with me. I have tried playing "evil" in Planescape: Torment no less than 3 times, and each and every time I can't get past the tutorial. I played "evil" in MotB once. It was... well... Damn evil. That's the only way to describe my character. He went from NE to CE very quickly. There wasn't a single good thing about him. In my defense though, souls are tasty. Cookie monster agrees with your statement. He's considering changing his name to "Soul Monster" Souls taste like homonculus. That is to say, delicious. Cookies are also pretty good too, though.

AD-Stu	101 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 23:19
	woodaba: Question Time! Following on last time's question about Moral Choice, has there ever been a choice you simply could not make? For example, finding an Evil option so horrible that you simply could not go through with it. Ages ago I actually started a Dark Side playthrough in this game, but with all the dickish choices that were piling up I could never bring myself to finish it. What gets me worse though is that there's often so little reward for it - like in this chapter, where at best you get a measly 200 credits for selling off the journals. Also, at risk of spoilering my own LP... Spoiler: Click to View

woodaba	102 POSTED: 9 Feb 2012 23:55
	AD-Stu: woodaba: Question Time! Following on last time's question about Moral Choice, has there ever been a choice you simply could not make? For example, finding an Evil option so horrible that you simply could not go through with it. Ages ago I actually started a Dark Side playthrough in this game, but with all the dickish choices that were piling up I could never bring myself to finish it. What gets me worse though is that there's often so little reward for it - like in this chapter, where at best you get a measly 200 credits for selling off the journals. Also, at risk of spoilering my own LP... Spoiler: Click to View In Mass Effect, I simply can't dissapoint my companions. I always feel really really terrible making any sort of nasty choice in a conversation towards them.

sage42	103 POSTED: 10 Feb 2012 05:34
	Oh happiest of days! Updates to three of the four LP's I'm currently following here on ze 'scapist. The only way it could get better is if the Mass Effect LP updated too. Not that I'm complining about your update speed Stu, I'm just impatient. CM156: woodaba: Cookie monster agrees with your statement. He's considering changing his name to "Soul Monster" Souls taste like homonculus. That is to say, delicious. Cookies are also pretty good too, though. I hear that souls taste like butterscotch pudding, is it true?

CM156	104 POSTED: 10 Feb 2012 05:46
	sage42: Oh happiest of days! Updates to three of the four LP's I'm currently following here on ze 'scapist. The only way it could get better is if the Mass Effect LP updated too. Not that I'm complining about your update speed Stu, I'm just impatient. CM156: woodaba: Cookie monster agrees with your statement. He's considering changing his name to "Soul Monster" Souls taste like homonculus. That is to say, delicious. Cookies are also pretty good too, though. I hear that souls taste like butterscotch pudding, is it true? Well, I updated twice, so I guess that fills in for Stu _{_{_{_{Lazy prick}}}} KIDDING! KIDDING! Anyways, in MotB, you actually get to state what souls (or rather, spirits) taste like. Personally, I think they'd taste different, based on the personality of the soul (or spirit) you're eating.

AD-Stu	105 POSTED: 10 Feb 2012 07:32
	sage42: Oh happiest of days! Updates to three of the four LP's I'm currently following here on ze 'scapist. The only way it could get better is if the Mass Effect LP updated too. Not that I'm complining about your update speed Stu, I'm just impatient. LOL - just putting the finishing touches on it, should be up later tonight ;)


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