Bioware forums explode as Mass Effect 3 ending details are leaked. *MINOR SPOILERS*

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I havent looked, but I'm assuming by downer that either Shepard dies. The Love interest dies, earth is completely destroyed or the citadel is destroyed.

Thumper17:
I havent looked, but I'm assuming by downer that either Shepard dies. The Love interest dies, earth is completely destroyed or the citadel is destroyed.

Nope, that would be a good ending compared to this :)

I will wait until I actually PLAY the game to announce my opinion. Really I expected a bittersweet ending anyway, too unrealistic to have an ending with no casualties.

Besides the Reapers are huge threats and no one's been able to defeat them yet. I would've been shocked if there wasn't a giant sacrifice to stop them.

ServebotFrank:

Besides the Reapers are huge threats and no one's been able to defeat them yet. I would've been shocked if there wasn't a giant sacrifice to stop them.

We've been over this for the last six pages, we (generalizing but whatever) aren't saying that a sacrifice is bad. It's that the prime selling point of the series (ie. Choice) has been thrown out in favor of three endings that are the same damn thing.

I haven't played the series, but I have played the ME2 and ME3 demos. It seems like even if I did everything right, a s*** load of people still died and many things were beyond my control. Also, isn't the tagline for ME1 "You can't save everyone." or something like that? I never got the impression this series would have a happy ending.

Jdb:
I haven't played the series, but I have played the ME2 and ME3 demos. It seems like even if I did everything right, a s*** load of people still died and many things were beyond my control. Also, isn't the tagline for ME1 "You can't save everyone." or something like that? I never got the impression this series would have a happy ending.

I thought the tagline was "choice"

Can anyone confirm the Rumor about Ashley being a

boag:
Can anyone confirm the Rumor about Ashley being a

That's just a rumor from /v/, it's about as credible as Aller's throwing out Jessie.

You might not know who Jessie is, but it is Zaeed's rifle. He tells a couple stories about it in ME2. Anyway someone on /v/ said Chobots character threw it out because Zaeed left it on the Normandy and she though it was garbage. Of course that was a lie to piss people off.

So this Ashley thing is probably just something someone made up to goad people into ragging on the BSN.

Patrick_and_the_ricks:

boag:
Can anyone confirm the Rumor about Ashley being a

That's just a rumor from /v/, it's about as credible as Aller's throwing out Jessie.

You might not know who Jessie is, but it is Zaeed's rifle. He tells a couple stories about it in ME2. Anyway someone on /v/ said Chobots character threw it out because Zaeed left it on the Normandy and she though it was garbage. Of course that was a lie to piss people off.

So this Ashley thing is probably just something someone made up to goad people into ragging on the BSN.

I do know who Jessie is, I threw a shit fit when I read that, glad to know it was just a troll.

boag:

Patrick_and_the_ricks:

boag:
Can anyone confirm the Rumor about Ashley being a

That's just a rumor from /v/, it's about as credible as Aller's throwing out Jessie.

You might not know who Jessie is, but it is Zaeed's rifle. He tells a couple stories about it in ME2. Anyway someone on /v/ said Chobots character threw it out because Zaeed left it on the Normandy and she though it was garbage. Of course that was a lie to piss people off.

So this Ashley thing is probably just something someone made up to goad people into ragging on the BSN.

I do know who Jessie is, I threw a shit fit when I read that, glad to know it was just a troll.

This might be a spoiler but it concerns Zaeed in ME3 and Jessie if your curious:

Patrick_and_the_ricks:

boag:

Patrick_and_the_ricks:
That's just a rumor from /v/, it's about as credible as Aller's throwing out Jessie.

You might not know who Jessie is, but it is Zaeed's rifle. He tells a couple stories about it in ME2. Anyway someone on /v/ said Chobots character threw it out because Zaeed left it on the Normandy and she though it was garbage. Of course that was a lie to piss people off.

So this Ashley thing is probably just something someone made up to goad people into ragging on the BSN.

I do know who Jessie is, I threw a shit fit when I read that, glad to know it was just a troll.

This might be a spoiler but it concerns Zaeed in ME3 and Jessie if your curious:

yeah saw that on the VG thread, it was a nice surprise.

tony2077:
as long as they don't take away all your hard work with a cheap plot twist i don't care. i still will stay away from it and find out for myself when i get the game

Than you will care. Pyrric victory for all and not in a good interesting way either, like a ridiculous stupid way. Oh and you better not be color blind because if you are you may need someone to tell the endings apart for you.

Having just finished the game myself... yes, the ending is pretty much as bad as everyone thinks it is. Maybe even worse.

This must be the first trilogy where everything is superb and gets screwed up in the last five minutes.
I mean WTF happened?! Seriously?!
Who thought this was a satisfying ending to a trilogy?!
The endings are shit no matter which way you choose to look at them...
If you wanted a triumphant ending, well FUCK YOU!!
You try to look at this as a bittersweet ending: it's shit; it's shit because there's no sense of closure, and worst of all it doesn't give you the sense that you accomplished anything, and no idea of the state of the galaxy after the final battle...
There's some elements of the the final conversation with the catalyst that could actually be pretty cool, like the reapers being a way to preserve the essence of organic species; but they completly fuck it up in a way that's astounding! How the fuck do you get so much right through the whole game only to fuck it up at the end?
I suck at writing stories and I could come up with more satisfying conclusions right of the top of my head!

EX: During the final conversation with the catalyst it is revealed that the reapers are a way to preserve the essence of an organic species in a single massive being. The catalyst explains that this is necessary because when a civilization reaches it's peak, it inevitably self destructs, like what we have seen with big empires throughout ancient human history (IE the Roman empire), therefore the reapers help species that have reached a certain level of technological advancement to "ascend" to reaper form in oder to save them from self destruction. Shepard thinks that this solution shouldn't be forced on organics and that all life should self determinate, the catalyst disagrees but says that since shepard is the first organic to ever reach the crucible, the choice of what path life in the galaxy, sinthetic or organic, is his, and then the final choice is weather to control or destroy the reapers, controlling them has the benefits of revealing all the secrets of reaper tech at the cost of shepard's life, but shepard could decide that reaper tech is too advanced and galactic civilization isn't ready to use it wisely. The endings will then range from shepard and his whole crew surviving and having closure (Marrige, old age and a lot of little blue children, for me at least) or shepard and his whole team dying in the last battle, followed by a touching funearal sequence in which all your sacrifices are honored, all this depending on your effective military strenght.
Because effective military strenght does jack shit when it comes to improve how things end.

Or Shepard could wake up in a citadel room and then say: That was one freaky ass dream!
That ending is only slightly better than what they gave us.

Nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, and I mean nobody thought this was a good ending, and I eagerly await for Bioware to either try to justify this atrocity, or admit that they fucked up royally and then offer to change the endings with DLC (IE Fallout 3).

Either way make no mistake, they FUCKING KNOW that this ending is complete horse shit.

God, I can only imagine what Yahtzee is gonna say about this. If you thought that the Deus Ex Human Revolution endings were bad, which I thought were rather appropriate personally, this is a million times worse.

It's almost as if George Lucas somehow seized control of the writing staff's mind and said "Try and take away my dominance of sci-fi, will you!?" and proceeded to have them write an ending he'd had mulling in his head for awhile...

ChrisRedfield92:
This must be the first trilogy where everything is superb and gets screwed up in the last five minutes.
I mean WTF happened?! Seriously?!
Who thought this was a satisfying ending to a trilogy?!
The endings are shit no matter which way you choose to look at them...
If you wanted a triumphant ending, well FUCK YOU!!
You try to look at this as a bittersweet ending: it's shit; it's shit because there's no sense of closure, and worst of all it doesn't give you the sense that you accomplished anything, and no idea of the state of the galaxy after the final battle...
There's some elements of the the final conversation with the catalyst that could actually be pretty cool, like the reapers being a way to preserve the essence of organic species; but they completly fuck it up in a way that's astounding! How the fuck do you get so much right through the whole game only to fuck it up at the end?
I suck at writing stories and I could come up with more satisfying conclusions right of the top of my head!

EX: During the final conversation with the catalyst it is revealed that the reapers are a way to preserve the essence of an organic species in a single massive being. The catalyst explains that this is necessary because when a civilization reaches it's peak, it inevitably self destructs, like what we have seen with big empires throughout ancient human history (IE the Roman empire), therefore the reapers help species that have reached a certain level of technological advancement to "ascend" to reaper form in oder to save them from self destruction. Shepard thinks that this solution shouldn't be forced on organics and that all life should self determinate, the catalyst disagrees but says that since shepard is the first organic to ever reach the crucible, the choice of what path life in the galaxy, sinthetic or organic, is his, and then the final choice is weather to control or destroy the reapers, controlling them has the benefits of revealing all the secrets of reaper tech at the cost of shepard's life, but shepard could decide that reaper tech is too advanced and galactic civilization isn't ready to use it wisely. The endings will then range from shepard and his whole crew surviving and having closure (Marrige, old age and a lot of little blue children, for me at least) or shepard and his whole team dying in the last battle, followed by a touching funearal sequence in which all your sacrifices are honored, all this depending on your effective military strenght.
Because effective military strenght does jack shit when it comes to improve how things end.

Or Shepard could wake up in a citadel room and then say: That was one freaky ass dream!
That ending is only slightly better than what they gave us.

Nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody, and I mean nobody thought this was a good ending, and I eagerly await for Bioware to either try to justify this atrocity, or admit that they fucked up royally and then offer to change the endings with DLC (IE Fallout 3).

Either way make no mistake, they FUCKING KNOW that this ending is complete horse shit.

God, I can only imagine what Yahtzee is gonna say about this. If you thought that the Deus Ex Human Revolution endings were bad, which I thought were rather appropriate personally, this is a million times worse.

I remember when I got into an argument with a guy who said the endings were good, saying that "Deus Ex is a great game and the endings were great cappers to the story!"

Dumbshit didn't get that Deus Ex =/= Mass Effect.

As I posted in another thread

"I loved the endings because they actually make sense with the story.

The Mass Relays and The Citadel were devices built by The Reapers to impose technological and social limits and force civilization down the path the Reapers chose, which is to say a dead end one.

While destroying the Mass Relays sets the galaxy back thousands of years it also free galactic civilization from never ending enslavement.

Leaving the Mass Relays would only means civilization continued to be slaves, and would stagnate one they hit the end of the Reapers path. But what is WORSE about it is that at that point they would now be willing slaves to a slave master who is no longer alive.

Post mass relay civilization now has a chance to go down the path that they choose for themselves instead of the Reapers path, the unfortunate problem is that civilization as it was, was already to far down The Reapers path to be fixed, it had to be destroyed."

ChrisRedfield92:
-snip0-

I'm right there with you, friend. Mass Effect 3 was GOTY material, heralding hte end of the greatest trilogy I've ever played. And they not only fucked up ME3 in the last 5 minutes, but they destroyed the entire 80 hour trilogy.

...how do you do that?

SajuukKhar:
As I posted in another thread

"I loved the endings because they actually make sense with the story.

The Mass Relays and The Citadel were devices built by The Reapers to impose technological and social limits and force civilization down the path the Reapers chose, which is to say a dead end one.

While destroying the Mass Relays sets the galaxy back thousands of years it also free galactic civilization from never ending enslavement.

Leaving the Mass Relays would only means civilization continued to be slaves, and would stagnate one they hit the end of the Reapers path. But what is WORSE about it is that at that point they would now be willing slaves to a slave master who is no longer alive.

Post mass relay civilization now has a chance to go down the path that they choose for themselves instead of the Reapers path, the unfortunate problem is that civilization as it was, was already to far down The Reapers path to be fixed, it had to be destroyed."[/quote[quote="SajuukKhar" post="9.352490.14032539"]As I posted in another thread

"I loved the endings because they actually make sense with the story.

The Mass Relays and The Citadel were devices built by The Reapers to impose technological and social limits and force civilization down the path the Reapers chose, which is to say a dead end one.

While destroying the Mass Relays sets the galaxy back thousands of years it also free galactic civilization from never ending enslavement.

Leaving the Mass Relays would only means civilization continued to be slaves, and would stagnate one they hit the end of the Reapers path. But what is WORSE about it is that at that point they would now be willing slaves to a slave master who is no longer alive.

Post mass relay civilization now has a chance to go down the path that they choose for themselves instead of the Reapers path, the unfortunate problem is that civilization as it was, was already to far down The Reapers path to be fixed, it had to be destroyed."

Like I said, even if you choose to look at the ending that way, it's still shit, there's no sense of closure and it leaves you with a million questions. What the fuck happened to joker and the Normandy crew? What happens to all the alien fleets who are now stuck in the sol system with no way back to their home planet? What happenes if you control the reapers? Do they go out back into dark space? How do they do that without the citadel? If you destroy the reapers wouldn't organics examine them for their technological mysteries? How does galactic civilization get back on it's feet? What's the point of surviving the destroy ending if most techonolgy is destroyed? How is controlling the reapers or destroying them or synthesis any different from any other besides a simple change in the color of a light beam?

WHY the fuck does shepard say nothing when the catalyst says that activating the crucible will destroy the Mass Relays? I remember the last time a relay was destroyed it took out a whole system, so what makes this any different? Bioware is gonna get a lot of shit for this ending, believe me. What's the point of letting you make all those decisions if it was gonna end in a way as pointless as this?

NinjaDeathSlap:
because 'saving the frickin' galaxy from an armada thought completely unstoppable, that had previously wiped out the most advanced races know to time with great ease' doesn't satisfy you?

Except you didn't save the galaxy, even with the 'synthesis' ending if you take the little fuckwit's interpretation of the actions synthetic life will always take at face value. Remember, the Citadel and Reapers originated in THIS galaxy. They never came from or went anywhere else. However, at 20% of lightspeed synthetic life forms could easily cross between galaxies. Which means that NO MATTER WHAT ENDING YOU CHOOSE, sooner or later an extragalactic armada of synthetics from the Andromeda galaxy is going to slaughter everything in the Milky Way.

ravenshrike:

NinjaDeathSlap:
because 'saving the frickin' galaxy from an armada thought completely unstoppable, that had previously wiped out the most advanced races know to time with great ease' doesn't satisfy you?

Except you didn't save the galaxy, even with the 'synthesis' ending if you take the little fuckwit's interpretation of the actions synthetic life will always take at face value. Remember, the Citadel and Reapers originated in THIS galaxy. They never came from or went anywhere else. However, at 20% of lightspeed synthetic life forms could easily cross between galaxies. Which means that NO MATTER WHAT ENDING YOU CHOOSE, sooner or later an extragalactic armada of synthetics from the Andromeda galaxy is going to slaughter everything in the Milky Way.

I didn't even bring up what doesn't make sense about the Normandy being stranded on an unknown planet, if the shockwave from the Cruible only affects the reapers (As shown in the destroy ending where the soilders raise their hands in the sky) why was the Normandy affected? Why did joker suddenly try to escape at FTl speed when he was in the middle of a battle? Why are Garrus and Liara in the normandy when they were with me right up until I reached the beam that took me to the Citadel? Can anyone explain this to me?!

I mean face it, everywhere I go people either hate it or they dislike it.

ChrisRedfield92:

Like I said, even if you choose to look at the ending that way, it's still shit, there's no sense of closure and it leaves you with a million questions. What the fuck happened to joker and the Normandy crew? What happens to all the alien fleets who are now stuck in the sol system with no way back to their home planet? What happenes if you control the reapers? Do they go out back into dark space? How do they do that without the citadel? If you destroy the reapers wouldn't organics examine them for their technological mysteries? How does galactic civilization get back on it's feet? What's the point of surviving the destroy ending if most techonolgy is destroyed? How is controlling the reapers or destroying them or synthesis any different from any other besides a simple change in the color of a light beam?

WHY the fuck does shepard say nothing when the catalyst says that activating the crucible will destroy the Mass Relays? I remember the last time a relay was destroyed it took out a whole system, so what makes this any different? Bioware is gonna get a lot of shit for this ending, believe me. What's the point of letting you make all those decisions if it was gonna end in a way as pointless as this?

If you don't understand what the difference is between a fully powered relay blowing up and one that's completely drained of energy blowing up then.............. I dont know what to say.

also how is getting to choose what races live or die, or are eternally cursed with a plauge negating ALL your decision?

I swear you using so much hyperbole its almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion.

It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

Nimcha:
It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

Kahunaburger:

Nimcha:
It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

You mean, the same technology applied by the Reapers in every single ME game so far? Amplified by the Crucible AND the Catalyst?

Yeah, I guess to some people that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's the game's fault.

Nimcha:

Kahunaburger:

Nimcha:
It's so sad. The ending makes perfect sense if you step back and think about everything.

I get that people are made they didn't get the ending they want, but extrapolating that on the ending there is, is counterproductive.

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

You mean, the same technology applied by the Reapers in every single ME game so far? Amplified by the Crucible AND the Catalyst?

Yeah, I guess to some people that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's the game's fault.

It's technology in the same way that Q summoning a mariachi band is technology. Green space radiation that travels faster than light, recognizes the difference between an organic and synthetic form of life, reconfigures a design that is viable in one form into a design that is viable in the other form (including turning silicon to carbon and carbon to silicon as necessary) everywhere at once can reasonably be called "space magic." It works that way because the plot says so.

Kahunaburger:

Nimcha:

Kahunaburger:

No matter how much you step back, the green space magic that turns machines into biological lifeforms and biological lifeforms into machines doesn't make sense. That's even stupider than the Asari, and that's saying something.

You mean, the same technology applied by the Reapers in every single ME game so far? Amplified by the Crucible AND the Catalyst?

Yeah, I guess to some people that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's the game's fault.

It's technology in the same way that Q summoning a mariachi band is technology. Green space radiation that travels faster than light, recognizes the difference between an organic and synthetic form of life, reconfigures a design that is viable in one form into a design that is viable in the other form (including turning silicon to carbon and carbon to silicon as necessary) everywhere at once can reasonably be called "space magic." It works that way because the plot says so.

Then the Mass Effect universe is simply not for you. I've already explained why none of that is implausible in the universe. You offer no rebuttal but saying you think it's 'space magic'.

If you don't like the ME universe there's nothing I can do. But don't try to undermine it with hyperboles and by relativating everything to death.

Nimcha:

Kahunaburger:

Nimcha:

You mean, the same technology applied by the Reapers in every single ME game so far? Amplified by the Crucible AND the Catalyst?

Yeah, I guess to some people that doesn't make sense. I don't think that's the game's fault.

It's technology in the same way that Q summoning a mariachi band is technology. Green space radiation that travels faster than light, recognizes the difference between an organic and synthetic form of life, reconfigures a design that is viable in one form into a design that is viable in the other form (including turning silicon to carbon and carbon to silicon as necessary) everywhere at once can reasonably be called "space magic." It works that way because the plot says so.

Then the Mass Effect universe is simply not for you. I've already explained why none of that is implausible in the universe. You offer no rebuttal but saying you think it's 'space magic'.

If you don't like the ME universe there's nothing I can do. But don't try to undermine it with hyperboles and by relativating everything to death.

Well, then allow me to "relativate."

The space magic thing is not a hyperbole. In order for something like that to function, it would need to A) transfer incredibly complex information (like how to turn literally any possible organic or technological life-form into a hybrid without violating conservation of energy or significantly altering the life-form's ability to function) over interstellar distances and B) somehow act at those distances in a fashion complex enough to carry out the instructions that information. A is improbable, B is impossible. So yeah, space magic. Maybe it would fly in a Final Fantasy game, but Mass Effect is a series that at least has some pretensions to being actual science fiction.

SajuukKhar:

ChrisRedfield92:

Like I said, even if you choose to look at the ending that way, it's still shit, there's no sense of closure and it leaves you with a million questions. What the fuck happened to joker and the Normandy crew? What happens to all the alien fleets who are now stuck in the sol system with no way back to their home planet? What happenes if you control the reapers? Do they go out back into dark space? How do they do that without the citadel? If you destroy the reapers wouldn't organics examine them for their technological mysteries? How does galactic civilization get back on it's feet? What's the point of surviving the destroy ending if most techonolgy is destroyed? How is controlling the reapers or destroying them or synthesis any different from any other besides a simple change in the color of a light beam?

WHY the fuck does shepard say nothing when the catalyst says that activating the crucible will destroy the Mass Relays? I remember the last time a relay was destroyed it took out a whole system, so what makes this any different? Bioware is gonna get a lot of shit for this ending, believe me. What's the point of letting you make all those decisions if it was gonna end in a way as pointless as this?

If you don't understand what the difference is between a fully powered relay blowing up and one that's completely drained of energy blowing up then.............. I dont know what to say.

also how is getting to choose what races live or die, or are eternally cursed with a plauge negating ALL your decision?

I swear you using so much hyperbole its almost impossible to have a reasonable discussion.

You want to talk about reasonable discussions with me?
If you look at your post again you'll probably realise that you didn't anwser any of my questions and you aren't making any good points.

Kahunaburger:

Well, then allow me to "relativate."

The space magic thing is not a hyperbole. In order for something like that to function, it would need to A) transfer incredibly complex information (like how to turn literally any possible organic or technological life-form into a hybrid without violating conservation of energy or significantly altering the life-form's ability to function) over interstellar distances and B) somehow act at those distances in a fashion complex enough to carry out the instructions that information. A is improbable, B is impossible. So yeah, space magic. Maybe it would fly in a Final Fantasy game, but Mass Effect is a series that at least has some pretensions to being actual science fiction.

Yes because there is no such thing as being so scientifically advanced one can alter the laws of physics, ohh wait, thats been in every sci-fi series like ever.

Just becuase it doesn't 100% adhere to the laws of our universe, which Mass effect NEVER did, doesn't make it space magic.

and yes the term space magic is hyperbole.

ChrisRedfield92:

You want to talk about reasonable discussions with me?
If you look at your post again you'll probably realise that you didn't anwser any of my questions and you aren't making any good points.

I answered you question, just not in a way you liked, which is to say not in a way that only consists of hating on bioware.

Kahunaburger:

Nimcha:

Kahunaburger:

It's technology in the same way that Q summoning a mariachi band is technology. Green space radiation that travels faster than light, recognizes the difference between an organic and synthetic form of life, reconfigures a design that is viable in one form into a design that is viable in the other form (including turning silicon to carbon and carbon to silicon as necessary) everywhere at once can reasonably be called "space magic." It works that way because the plot says so.

Then the Mass Effect universe is simply not for you. I've already explained why none of that is implausible in the universe. You offer no rebuttal but saying you think it's 'space magic'.

If you don't like the ME universe there's nothing I can do. But don't try to undermine it with hyperboles and by relativating everything to death.

Well, then allow me to "relativate."

The space magic thing is not a hyperbole. In order for something like that to function, it would need to A) transfer incredibly complex information (like how to turn literally any possible organic or technological life-form into a hybrid without violating conservation of energy or significantly altering the life-form's ability to function) over interstellar distances and B) somehow act at those distances in a fashion complex enough to carry out the instructions that information. A is improbable, B is impossible. So yeah, space magic. Maybe it would fly in a Final Fantasy game, but Mass Effect is a series that at least has some pretensions to being actual science fiction.

What's even worse is that if the reapers can have devices like that, then there's no need to bother with the reaper ships, the guns, the ground troops and everything else.
If you can control every organic molecule in the entire galaxy on a precise and subatomic level with a device you already made and could build more of besides, then you don't make war, you just magic everything how you like it.

Kahunaburger:

Nimcha:

Kahunaburger:

It's technology in the same way that Q summoning a mariachi band is technology. Green space radiation that travels faster than light, recognizes the difference between an organic and synthetic form of life, reconfigures a design that is viable in one form into a design that is viable in the other form (including turning silicon to carbon and carbon to silicon as necessary) everywhere at once can reasonably be called "space magic." It works that way because the plot says so.

Then the Mass Effect universe is simply not for you. I've already explained why none of that is implausible in the universe. You offer no rebuttal but saying you think it's 'space magic'.

If you don't like the ME universe there's nothing I can do. But don't try to undermine it with hyperboles and by relativating everything to death.

Well, then allow me to "relativate."

The space magic thing is not a hyperbole. In order for something like that to function, it would need to A) transfer incredibly complex information (like how to turn literally any possible organic or technological life-form into a hybrid without violating conservation of energy or significantly altering the life-form's ability to function) over interstellar distances and B) somehow act at those distances in a fashion complex enough to carry out the instructions that information. A is improbable, B is impossible. So yeah, space magic. Maybe it would fly in a Final Fantasy game, but Mass Effect is a series that at least has some pretensions to being actual science fiction.

Sigh. You just don't want to see it. It's fine, you know. Denial is easy.

The relays can transfer matter without it breaking up into pieces. They can do that without breaking so much as a sweat. If they can do that, any amount of just information is absolutely no problem at all. Or any amount of tech capable of doing that. Especially since, as I've already pointed out, they were amplified by the Crucible+Catalyst.

There are different kinds of science fiction. There's 'hard', which basically means no faster than light travel. There's already that in Mass Effect, so it definitely doesn't fall into that category. It's 'soft' science fiction, and sending that kind of technology through the relays is absolutely no problem at all in this universe, if you actually look and see what else is possible.

SajuukKhar:

Kahunaburger:

Well, then allow me to "relativate."

The space magic thing is not a hyperbole. In order for something like that to function, it would need to A) transfer incredibly complex information (like how to turn literally any possible organic or technological life-form into a hybrid without violating conservation of energy or significantly altering the life-form's ability to function) over interstellar distances and B) somehow act at those distances in a fashion complex enough to carry out the instructions that information. A is improbable, B is impossible. So yeah, space magic. Maybe it would fly in a Final Fantasy game, but Mass Effect is a series that at least has some pretensions to being actual science fiction.

Yes because there is no such thing as being so scientifically advanced one can alter the laws of physics, ohh wait, thats been in every sci-fi series like ever.

Just becuase it doesn't 100% adhere to the laws of our universe, which Mass effect NEVER did, doesn't make it space magic.

and yes the term space magic is hyperbole.

ChrisRedfield92:

You want to talk about reasonable discussions with me?
If you look at your post again you'll probably realise that you didn't anwser any of my questions and you aren't making any good points.

I answered you question, just not in a way you liked, which is to say not in a way that only consists of hating on bioware.

No you did not,

And even if all your points had any merit to them, it's a simple fact that whatever ending they tried to convey was very poorly executed.

I could accept the ending you're saying this is, if it gave some sense of closure, If I knew what the the consequences of the final choice were, if it gave me a sense that everything I did up til now was worth something, which it doesn't.

But hey if you got what you wanted then more power to you.

It's a fact that most people agree that the ending is unsatisfying and depressing, and I seriously doubt that Bioware planned to end the trilogy in a depressing and unsatisfying way when they started Mass Effect 8 years ago.

ChrisRedfield92:

And even if all your points had any merit to them, it's a simple fact that whatever ending they tried to convey was very poorly executed.

Looking at all the confusion, I can say this is partly true. A lot of people don't seem to be able to get the ending the way Bioware intended. This is indeed a flaw, I think we can agree on that part.

However, it's not as bad as some other people are trying to convey here. The ending makes sense, you just have to think about it a little and pay attention to what has happened before and to the general theme of the series. If Bioware hasn't made those things clear enough for a large number of people, they have made an error in the storytelling. That doesn't mean it ruins the game or the series, though.

@above: technically, anything that isn't hard SF is space magic to a certain extent. But there's a difference between changing a law of physics to make the story work and writing things in your universe that are not only impossible under our concept of physics but also under ..any physics we can conceive of. One gives you warp drives and time travel, the other gives you Kirk meeting literal greek gods and Q creating mariachis ex nihlo. So, no, the "but...but...it's soft sf!" argument doesn't work here.

And, as veloper pointed out, a last-ditch plot device is a pretty weaksauce use for the ability to instantly reconfigure (on a subatomic level) any matter within 100 light-years to precise and flexible specifications. So what if it uses lots of energy? Build a dyson sphere! Convert a nebula into dyson spheres! You have the technology!

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