(As we all know) Women are not new to gaming.

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Fappy:
The sign I put on the clubhouse door clearly read, "NO GIRLS ALLOWED!"

Who the fuck tore it down? Now there be bitches everywhere.

Oh...

Wait...

Hmmm....

Some of them are pretty good it turns out...

I don't get it, why didn't we want them in our community again?

While I agree with most all of the sarcasm being played with here, I have to add that this is a misconception, that the gaming community collectively forbid females from being allowed in. Really, video games began and until recently remained a mostly masculine occupation. There was no fence built from the inside. On the contrary, mostly due to the idea that the lot of us were pudgy, pimply nerdtards, gaming was just sort of overlooked or avoided by the lot. Now that people casually play Pokemon and Halo is getting a movie, nerd culture fetishism has pushed video games into the mainstream. I honestly think it's a mix between sexist undertones and a sort of 'spite' for the mainstream that denied gamers that makes male gamers so apprehensive to open up their clubhouses to the XX's.

KRAKENDIE:

Fappy:
The sign I put on the clubhouse door clearly read, "NO GIRLS ALLOWED!"

Who the fuck tore it down? Now there be bitches everywhere.

Oh...

Wait...

Hmmm....

Some of them are pretty good it turns out...

I don't get it, why didn't we want them in our community again?

While I agree with most all of the sarcasm being played with here, I have to add that this is a misconception, that the gaming community collectively forbid females from being allowed in. Really, video games began and until recently remained a mostly masculine occupation. There was no fence built from the inside. On the contrary, mostly due to the idea that the lot of us were pudgy, pimply nerdtards, gaming was just sort of overlooked or avoided by the lot. Now that people casually play Pokemon and Halo is getting a movie, nerd culture fetishism has pushed video games into the mainstream. I honestly think it's a mix between sexist undertones and a sort of 'spite' for the mainstream that denied gamers that makes male gamers so apprehensive to open up their clubhouses to the XX's.

Does that make the men who detest female gamers hipsters then? :P

Fappy:

KRAKENDIE:

Fappy:
The sign I put on the clubhouse door clearly read, "NO GIRLS ALLOWED!"

Who the fuck tore it down? Now there be bitches everywhere.

Oh...

Wait...

Hmmm....

Some of them are pretty good it turns out...

I don't get it, why didn't we want them in our community again?

While I agree with most all of the sarcasm being played with here, I have to add that this is a misconception, that the gaming community collectively forbid females from being allowed in. Really, video games began and until recently remained a mostly masculine occupation. There was no fence built from the inside. On the contrary, mostly due to the idea that the lot of us were pudgy, pimply nerdtards, gaming was just sort of overlooked or avoided by the lot. Now that people casually play Pokemon and Halo is getting a movie, nerd culture fetishism has pushed video games into the mainstream. I honestly think it's a mix between sexist undertones and a sort of 'spite' for the mainstream that denied gamers that makes male gamers so apprehensive to open up their clubhouses to the XX's.

Does that make the men who detest female gamers hipsters then? :P

In the future, everyone is a hipster. Everyone.

You know, I've given plenty of thought into the whole issue of sexism in the gaming community, but for all the pages and pages I've written and could continue to write, it all comes down to this:

Sexism is dumb; let's all just try to make video games a more friendly environment for everyone, regardless of sex and gender. Then the only people complaining will people who want to abuse video games as an excuse to be a dick. And then it just sucks to be them.
The End.

Lilani:
After that long post I made out for you, I almost feel a bit insulted you didn't address a single point I made :-\

Also, I think it's odd that you make a huge deal about women not being in competitive gaming, and totally brush off the fact that women are now 42% of the gaming industry's customer base. Last I checked, most games made are made for people who just play games. Developers don't take into account who is competing in game tournaments when deciding what game they should work on next. So to say that the lack of women in competitive gaming has or should have ANY sort of bearing on what games are made and whether or not they should appeal to women (or at least be gender-neutral, as I explained in detail in my previous post) is just ludicrous.

Stop throwing this "42%" like it is a fact. It is a statistic brought up by one or two sources, a number that is hovering on it's own with no substantial backing, a figure that isn't felt in gaming culture or society because it fails to specify exactly what KIND of gaming these females are into - browswer flash games? iPhone games? I would believe that.

I can walk into E3 every year and see maybe <5-10% of the women there who are actually there for the games (booth babes don't count). On the topic of booth babes, where are the booth HUNKS? Oh wait, almost nobody would be interested in buying games from shirtless muscular men because jack-all female gamers turned up to the event!

I can walk into local cybercafe's at midnight and see maybe 1-2 girls out of 30+ guys who are there for an overnight session of LAN gaming. In my 6 years of WoW I haven't come across anywhere NEAR 42% females, saying that 4 million+ girls play WoW (it's got 10 million + subs so it's a fair sample) is unimaginable, unbelievable, it can't be felt and it can't be seen.
Stumbling across a female in Vent is a rarity. I dont' care if "they're too shy to speak up" or "don't want to identify themselves", that's their problem for being so hiding something they should be proud of. I can walk into a local gaming store like EB Games and see ~1 girl for every 6 guys. Gamer girls EXIST, but this "42%" figure is completely and utterly lacking any real impact.

What I probably CAN believe is that 42% of people playing Angry Birds on their iPhone are female, because I can simply look around the city and see that for myself.

I know you'll most likely reply "but women shouldn't have to prove anything, they don't have to prove they play games, they don't have to show their presence." Well if they to sit in the shadows and play in secret, that 42% means nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Guys don't have to show their presence either, so why do we do it? Why do we turn up to gaming expo's in huge roves, why do we rejoice in gaming culture, why do we have huge LAN fests, why are games were females are over-sexualized so WELCOME in the industry, why did Bayonetta, Lollipop Chainsaw and Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball sell so many copies? Such games should be flops if 42% of gamers are girls and therefore aren't interested, or atleast we should've seen a MASSIVE backlash, correct? Why didn't it happen? Where is their presence, I ask for the thousanth' time?

Moonlight Butterfly:

Are you seriously saying to me that I don't care about gaming.

Really

I guess I'm totally imagining my massive games collection and the fact it's been my major hobby for 26 years. Thanks for telling me I must have been delusional all that time! -.-

At no point in any of my posts have I said that female gamers don't exist, and I honestly have no clue how you deduced that from my post. My point was that while female gamers exist, they are in a minority as you get deeper in the gaming culture. Do you understand what "minority" means? It means people like you exist, but compared to guys there simply aren't very many of you. Certainly NOT 42%.

Read my reply to Lilani above - I am simply trying to show examples of why female gamers aren't considered a big part of the equation at the moment. Because their PRESENCE isn't being felt. While guys move out in roves and openly show their interesting in gaming, females aren't doing it. Again, their presence isn't being felt.
Trying to say "but 42% play games!" is just sounding like a blind statistic at this point and nothing more.

theblindedhunter:
Yes, the male majority absolutely plays a part in women being poorly represented in some games - but why should that be okay that they do that? The point of a lot of the discussion about it is that these male developers should have the wherewithal to try making good female characters instead of just throwing them in as eye candy or a damsel in distress. It is understandable if they do, in some cases more than others, but it isn't okay that they do. Every game developer and designer should be held to a higher standard than that.

And most of them do hold a higher standard than that. It's just some developers who resort to their own weird perceptions (or atleast what sells in the market) and base their games on that, if they are lacking creativity then throwing in some boobs is bound to grab attention. I'm saying that's alright as long as the MAJORITY of games don't become like that - and they aren't, it's just a handful of games which feminists are blowing on about (rightfully so).

theblindedhunter:
This is just plain offensive. Women have to prove to you their claims of being interested in games and gaming? This is the thing that most makes the community feel like a boy's club. "Hey girls, I guess you can come into our clubhouse, but first you have to prove to us boys, the leaders of gaming, that you like it how we think you should!"

Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Girls were always welcome to the clubhouse. They just choose not to show up, they're either too shy, embarrassed or whatever - the end result is that this "clubhouse" ends up getting filled with boys.
This is what I want to say: "Hey girls, you are WELCOME into the clubhouse (it's not OUR clubhouse, it's belongs to everyone) - so please come in and show us guys that we're NOT the leaders of gaming".

See my reply to the above two quotes to see what I mean because I hate having to type the same thing in response to everyone :P

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I'll eat my own shoe if anyone convinces me that 42% of the people in the above photos are women.

Those photos were just randomly searched of gaming expos. This time I didn't show tournament winners (because the lack of females in that department is scary), this is just random gaming expos.

Tippy:
snip

I think you are being dismissive of those statistics. I don't understand why it's such a hard thing for you to believe that so many women play video games. It's almost like you are offended by the suggestion.

You ever think maybe we don't go to cons and the like because they are geared towards men and have half naked booth babes everywhere. Also btw cons do not equal all the gamers in the world. The Sims 3 community is 90% women I assure you.

The fact is female gamers have to put up with oversexualisation in games otherwise we would only be able to play indie games wouldn't we? I mean hell even a point and click game I was playing has a 'sexy elf' in it. You can't get away from it.

I can't go to cons because I don't live anywhere near any. Maybe that's a fact for other female gamers.

Moonlight Butterfly:

Tippy:
snip

I think you are being dismissive of those statistics. I don't understand why it's such a hard thing for you to believe that so many women play video games. It's almost like you are offended by the suggestion.

Not offended. Simply unconvinced. I need to see it with my eyes. Since I haven't exactly traveled the world, I can only resort to photos, videos and my experiences. I can say "women are everywhere in the workplace" because I see and feel their presence. I can say "women are everywhere in sports!" because I see and feel their presence. I CAN'T say "women are everywhere in gaming" because...you guessed it, their presence is minor at best, no matter how hard I look for sources of their presence/influence in gaming, I can't find it. Not in game development roles, not in expos, events/tournaments, not in MMORPG's (from my experience). Again, they EXIST, I know because I've met a few, but certainly nowhere near 42%. That's nearly half of all gamers!

You ever think maybe we don't go to cons and the like because they are geared towards men and have half naked booth babes everywhere. Also btw cons do not equal all the gamers in the world.

Guess why they're geared towards men, honey? Because men turn up. Because men have always turned up, and will always turn up. The customer is king, the customer determines the trends, the hosts of the expo's only cater to the trends. They can't change it. Female gamers can, and choose not to. 42% is a huge number, definitely worth catering and selling products to - why on earth would the gaming industry shun such an opportunity to sell games? Why wouldn't corporations (their sole goal being to make money) sell to females if made up 42% of the gaming population?

The Sims 3 community is 90% women I assure you.

Perhaps. That's another floating statistic.

The fact is female gamers have to put up with oversexualisation in games otherwise we would only be able to play indie games wouldn't we?

Wait, what? There are heaps of AAA games where there is no oversexualisation, I would say the majority of them are fine. You don't have to restrict yourself to Indie games. I'll name some: Most Bioware games, Ubisoft games, DICE games, Crytek games, Activision/Blizzard games have no oversexualization. Granted some of them have an absesence of females, but atleast you don't run into sexed-up dolls around every corner do you? The majority of them are fine.

I can't go to cons because I don't live anywhere near any. Maybe that's a fact for other female gamers.

Meaningless because we're talking about the ratios and percentages. Women make up half the world, and in developed countries (where these events/expos happen) they occupy the same places and regions as men.

I am part of a "clan/regiment" for a game called mount and blade, we get together on teamspeak a few times a week and we play mount and blade.
We have one girl in our group out of 20-something active members. She is a human of the opposite gender. When she first joined I thought: "right she's a girl" and then just acknowledged her like anyone else. She doesn't talk much, though I think that is more to do with her not generally saying anything until she starts yelling at us to do something.

There is no way in hell though that 42% of gamers that you would meet are women.

I think it could be 42% of gamers are girls, but they would likely prefer single player games and not Call of Duty, because due to genetics and stereotypes/gender roles (I'm not sure what the correct term is here) women are expected to be more docile and not like violent things.

I shouldn't need to say this, but some girls do enjoy Call of Duty, I do not know that I have met them, but it is almost certain they exist when you think about how many copies of Call of Duty are sold.

When someone mentioned how we should make a female orientated version of Dead or Alive: Volleyball I laughed, it just seems ridiculous, but the day that is a viable sort of game, I think sexism is all but abolished.

Captcha:
I don't understand it!
It says Audi, then:
Desribe this brand with any words.
What the hell am I supposed to put, cars?

Tippy:

Moonlight Butterfly:

Tippy:
snip

I think you are being dismissive of those statistics. I don't understand why it's such a hard thing for you to believe that so many women play video games. It's almost like you are offended by the suggestion.

Not offended. Simply unconvinced. I need to see it with my eyes. Since I haven't exactly traveled the world, I can only resort to photos, videos and my experiences. I can say "women are everywhere in the workplace" because I see and feel their presence. I can say "women are everywhere in sports!" because I see and feel their presence. I CAN'T say "women are everywhere in gaming" because...you guessed it, their presence is minor at best, no matter how hard I look for sources of their presence/influence in gaming, I can't find it. Not in game development roles, not in expos, events/tournaments, not in MMORPG's (from my experience). Again, they EXIST, I know because I've met a few, but certainly nowhere near 42%. That's nearly half of all gamers!

You do realise girl gamers hide?
Do you know what happens if I state my gender? Abuse happens.
I can say with 100% certainty that female gamers hide because I did it myself. Even now I will not `out` myself unless I know someone well, and I get annoyed when other people `out` me.
And I don't mean hide as in `never state your gender but make it pretty obvious`, I mean straight up fibbing about it.

-

I've never gone to a con for several reasons
-Can't afford it. I'm living hand-to-mouth right now.
-Don't live anywhere near cons.
-A feeling of exclusion: I don't want attention for being a girl in a con, I'm extremely uncomfortable in crowds, and with the abuse I've recieved online, why would I want to go to a nerd gathering? I certainly wouldn't go alone.
Can you not see at all why a female person would feel uncomfortable at a con?

Captcha- think twice

Tippy:
snip

Don't call me honey it's patronizing.

It's a self perpetuating problem if game devs don't feel that turning women away is an issue.
I spent a lot of money on games last month. Do they not want that money?

I have been part of The Sims 3 community for years and I assure you the majority of players are women.

Most AAA games have a lack of female characters and oversexualisation. Crysis 2 wouldn't even be that different if you had a choice of male and female protagonist right? There are no women in COD. Female characters in the WOW universe are often portrayed in skimpy clothing.
I'm pretty sure you guys don't realise how much everything is geared towards you and how much that can effect female gamers.

Again it's this issue of a self perpetuating problem. If they made things more welcoming for both sexes perhaps they would see an equal turnout.

Tippy:
-snip-

I'm sorry, but I can't figure this out. What on earth is your fucking point? Are you trying to say women don't deserve games that appeal to them because they as a collective haven't yet shown they are capable of desiring such things? Addressing any gender as a collective is childish thinking.

Look, I can do it too. Men on online multiplayer games are the most vile and repulsive thing ever to happen to video games. The moment they were given microphones they began to spew the most ignorant and destructive things to other people. Men and boys are a blight upon multiplayer games. I would say the vast majority I come across online have little interest in being remotely decent human beings.

And all of the men encourage it. Even by remaining silent when someone else is getting berated by the trolls, they are condoning and encouraging the behavior to continue. Because these things are allowed to happen, all men must be blamed for the behavior. It is the fault of all, and until it completely stops not a single male can claim they are not a part of the problem. They are the majority online, and so they must take responsibility. If they don't want to be blamed, then they have to man up and take care of it. I don't care if you don't say the words yourself--you have no room to be offended by anything that is done online, and because you haven't stopped it yet.

That is what I'm getting from you, Tippy. Women are either completely absent from or not featured appealingly in hardcore games because women as a collective have not risen up to solve the problem. Women have not accurately expressed their feelings, and so women are the sole cause of the problem and not a single one has any room to complain about the situation or claim to be innocent because the problem still exists.

What you are doing is a common logical fallacy that occurs in gender debates. Blaming the collective of a gender for the very fact that a problem exists, and saying that no member of that gender is absent from responsibility no matter where the statistics fall.

If you're going to sit here and complain about the percentages of women at cons. Frankly, I don't know, and I don't care. I know I personally don't go to cons simply because I can't. I don't live anywhere near any of them occur. So I can only speak for myself in that regard. But what I will say is this: If you are going to sit here and blame every single female for problems generated by a lack of female participation to fix the problem, then I get to blame every single male for the condition of multiplayer games and Internet trolling for their lack of participation in fixing that problem. Is that a deal?

Moonlight Butterfly:

Tippy:
snip

Don't call me honey it's patronizing.

It's a self perpetuating problem if game devs don't feel that turning women away is an issue.
I spent a lot of money on games last month. Do they not want that money?

I have been part of The Sims 3 community for years and I assure you the majority of players are women.

Most AAA games have a lack of female characters and oversexualisation. Crysis 2 wouldn't even be that different if you had a choice of male and female protagonist right? There are no women in COD. Female characters in the WOW universe are often portrayed in skimpy clothing.
I'm pretty sure you guys don't realise how much everything is geared towards you and how much that can effect female gamers.

Again it's this issue of a self perpetuating problem. If they made things more welcoming for both sexes perhaps they would see an equal turnout.

Its true that an element of games is pure testosterone, competition. Earlier on I talked about Laurianna. As a matriarch, she basically did a lot of things that I liked to do. Like solve puzzles, I have met a bunch of girls who like to solve puzzles. And part of the fun in solving puzzles involves going around a world collecting pieces of the puzzle and trying to put them together. I have a private hypothesis that women are better at unifying large ensembles of data, or making sense out of big pastiches of sensory information, because they have more white tissue related to intelligence in their cortices. But that idea is pure speculation, so don't take it too seriously... Anyways, I imagine the stereotypical woman gamer as being biased on the Achievment/Explorer/Killer/Socializer scale to be more of a socializer and an explorer than an achiever and a killer. This doesn't mean that women won't be achievers, but for example I think most women can find better things to do than play games, more interesting things to do than play games, most women are already playing games that are so interesting that controlling a virtual avatar is not high on their list of things to do. You only get a kick out of controlling a virtual avatar if you have a penchant for escape or some similar neurosis that makes you want to disconnect from the real world to some extent.

More later.

Tenmar:
Except here is the problem when people rail against the video game industry or "communities"(as in not being specific but just being general to further their agenda). The starting point of logic is often a logical fallacy or assumption that the video game industry and culture was somehow built by men to keep women out. Like a conspiracy.

Yeah this. This wasn't meant to be a boy's only club, but gender roles dictated that it was a nerdy thing and that girls were all beautiful and not nerds. So you can kinda see how this isn't gaming's fault in the first place and is just a point of something else.

Erana:
You know, I've given plenty of thought into the whole issue of sexism in the gaming community, but for all the pages and pages I've written and could continue to write, it all comes down to this:

Sexism is dumb; let's all just try to make video games a more friendly environment for everyone, regardless of sex and gender. Then the only people complaining will people who want to abuse video games as an excuse to be a dick. And then it just sucks to be them.
The End.

So.... How exactly is this helping anything when we all don't care about your sex, race, or gender when you play a game.

Tenmar:
Except here is the problem when people rail against the video game industry or "communities"(as in not being specific but just being general to further their agenda). The starting point of logic is often a logical fallacy or assumption that the video game industry and culture was somehow built by men to keep women out. Like a conspiracy.

Except, when women do become more prevalent in gaming and nerd culture and you see this much and this kind of backlash, don't you see why a lot of us perceive it that way? Personally, I grew up as an outcast who was friends with other female outcasts, and I didn't think of our group as much. Sure it was nice to have friends with other odd interests like me, but I never reveled in my presence being off-putting to others. And it certainly never offended me when others with different interests or values joined the group. I was a Christian and good friends with another girl who was a Pagan, and then we were friends with a Catholic and two Baptists. Some of them liked Doctor Who, some liked the PowerPuff Girls, some liked Twilight when it came out, some liked Harry Potter, some liked the Lord of the Rings, some liked the Rocky Horror Picture Show, and I liked Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy along with the Pagan girl.

And then there was a guy in my graphic design class who was convinced he was a werewolf. He tried to teach me Magic and gave me all of his cards when he and his friends decided to go back to playing Yu Gi Oh, but I never got too into it because they were done playing Magic and I didn't have any other friends to play it with.

So it's very jarring for me to imagine my eclectic childhood and then see so many guys getting absolutely choleric over the prospect of women getting anywhere near their precious video games. What I see is nothing less than pure impish outrage. "Look at all these women who hated us before, now they think we're cool! Well they aren't welcome here!" "They don't belong here, they hated us before and now they can't just titillate their way in!" "Attention whores!" "Sluts!"

The only explanations I can come up with are either spiteful resentment, or the idea that their "nerdy" groups of friends they formed did not value diversity, or strangers joining in whenever they wanted and with whatever interests they had. Their groups were exclusive, reveling in their exile from the "norm." If that's the case, then it makes perfect sense that they would be so threatened by people seeking them out. What they valued in being a nerd and a gamer wasn't playing games, at least not entirely. They liked being reclusive and pariah. That was their identity. So now that games are mainstream, and the people they ignored and were happily ignored by are knocking at their door, their perception of games is crumbling. Games were the thing that set them apart, and now women want in? The same women who reviled them in school? Absurd! If they want in, they're going to have to prove themselves worthy of being in our club!

When new people hung out with my nerdy friends, I never once saw any of them demand that the new person offer proof they truly belong with us. We just hung out. And if it lead us to be excluded by other groups of students, that was purely happenstance, and we certainly didn't enjoy being exiled for simply doing what we enjoyed. New people in our group weren't a threat to the norm--the norm was always fluctuating anyway. Nobody ever felt threatened a new person would change anything, at least anything that wasn't going to change at some point anyway.

So that is why I get the feeling some guys see games and nerd culture as a sort of exclusive club, rather than a ragtag collection of outcasts. Perhaps some resentment for past treatment from the mainstream is present as well, but from what I'm seeing whenever this topic comes up I truly believe there are some men out there who from the very beginning used games and nerd culture as a way of distancing themselves from others. They purposefully formed an "old boy's club" because it brought them comfort. Perhaps it was the only way for them to meet with their other nerdy friends who all happened to be guys as well, but if the backlash toward women wanting to join in on the fun is so intense, then they must hold it in great esteem that women were never a part of their group.

LittleBlondeGoth:

bluepilot:
Though the first game I ever beat was "Rodland" on the amiga 500, ahh I miss joysticks

Oh God, I remember Rodland, I played that too. And Rainbow Islands. And New Zealand Story. And Bubble Bobble. And...

I got into gaming back in 1985(ish) when my junior school wheeled a BBC Micro into my classroom with Granny's Garden and The Wizards Revenge on it. I was 7 years old, and that was the first time I fell in love. In fact, I had to be physically prised off that Micro at the end of the day because I wanted to carry on and finish the games. Then Christmas '89 my parents bought me and my younger brother the Amiga 500 Batman Pack, and I never looked back.

I went to an all girl secondary school, but no-one else really played games. Didn't stop me doing it. Hell, I also went to ballet classes every night, so it's not like I was even your typical gaming nerd. I loved that Amiga and the games it had - Cannon Fodder, Speedball II, XCom, Ultima, Zool. Since then my collection has only increased, to the point where I think I might have more hardware and software than my local GAME store. I've even turned one of my spare bedrooms into a dedicated games room. OK, there's a second PS3 in my bedroom in case I can't be bothered to get up. Sue me.

It wasn't until I was older that I realised games were seen more as a boys thing. I went into IT as a career, and tudied computer programming at GCSE, A Level and Degree. As I went through school there were gradually less and less women doing the courses I was. I ended up going into the Web rather than games development, but if I'd known how to get a foot in that door, I'd have given it a shot.

Still, I walked into GAME the other day in my N7 tee, and had a couple of people sneak over to me and tell me it was brilliant. Had a reasonably long discussion with one of them over our Shep builds (I favour the FemShep Paragon Infiltrator, in case you're interested).

Ah, the Amiga. Those were good times. The day the cathode went on the screen, I died a little inside. I tried to get in repaired but they just do not make cathodes that big anymore...

I grew up the same as you, just playing games and unaware that it was a "boy" thing. In fact, the first time that I realised gaming was more of a boy thing was here on the escapist. I never realised that the identity surrounded by games was so loaded.

I don't get the point of this topic. Girl gamers exist? yeah we know .-.

Risingblade:
I don't get the point of this topic. Girl gamers exist? yeah we know .-.

Well according to some we have to make ourselves known or we have no right to complain about anything ever.

So we better make sure we are super extra vocal about everything now! Won't that be fun!

Lilani:
I'm sorry, but I can't figure this out. What on earth is your fucking point? Are you trying to say women don't deserve games that appeal to them because they as a collective haven't yet shown they are capable of desiring such things? Addressing any gender as a collective is childish thinking.

Look, I can do it too. Men on online multiplayer games are the most vile and repulsive thing ever to happen to video games. The moment they were given microphones they began to spew the most ignorant and destructive things to other people. Men and boys are a blight upon multiplayer games. I would say the vast majority I come across online have little interest in being remotely decent human beings.

And all of the men encourage it. Even by remaining silent when someone else is getting berated by the trolls, they are condoning and encouraging the behavior to continue. Because these things are allowed to happen, all men must be blamed for the behavior. It is the fault of all, and until it completely stops not a single male can claim they are not a part of the problem. They are the majority online, and so they must take responsibility. If they don't want to be blamed, then they have to man up and take care of it. I don't care if you don't say the words yourself--you have no room to be offended by anything that is done online, and because you haven't stopped it yet.

Absolutely correct.
And guess what? These vile men/boys are the reason most competetive multiplayer games even sell, because female gamers alone sure as hell aren't going to keep studios/developers afloat on their own. Multiplayer communities are full of trash talkers, friendly players, competetive pro's, newbies, etc etc. You have to learn to deal with (or ignore) all parts of it, I've done exactly that for all these years and have enjoyed my gaming experience.

You're the one getting offended by male behaviour, the males are in majority here...all I can say is rise above it. Sure, I'll be nice to you and treat you like an equal, but you know that a lot of guys will not. But we're not coming over to your homes and physically assaulting you, they're just words over the internet.

The gaming industry so far has had no problem with this sort of thing either, they continue to do what they do.

That is what I'm getting from you, Tippy. Women are either completely absent from or not featured appealingly in hardcore games because women as a collective have not risen up to solve the problem. Women have not accurately expressed their feelings, and so women are the sole cause of the problem and not a single one has any room to complain about the situation or claim to be innocent because the problem still exists.

Oh they have accurately expressed their feelings alright. That's why we've had so much feminist anger spilling over these boards for the past few months.

If you're going to sit here and complain about the percentages of women at cons. Frankly, I don't know, and I don't care. I know I personally don't go to cons simply because I can't. I don't live anywhere near any of them occur. So I can only speak for myself in that regard.

Cons were just an example really, I'm open to all sources and looking everywhere I can. When speaking about gaming populations it's impossible to say who is sittting behind the keyboard/television, so the best samples to draw from are ones where people make a physical appearance - internet cafe's (for gaming that is, not web surfing), LAN events, gaming expos/cons/tourneys, game developer staff photos, really anywhere that gamers show their faces. There number of females in all such places is in an absolute minority, it is undeniable. That's why I keep digging up whatever photos I can, because I don't have access to statistics I have to rely on what I CAN find. Do you have anything to contribute?

But what I will say is this: If you are going to sit here and blame every single female for problems generated by a lack of female participation to fix the problem, then I get to blame every single male for the condition of multiplayer games and Internet trolling for their lack of participation in fixing that problem. Is that a deal?

It's a done deal! The internet trolls and the aggressive twats in multiplayer are primarily male, no doubt about it. Males ARE partially at blame, and so are the females. I see the weaknesses of both sides, but sadly I see that one side is perfectly happy with the state of things (the males) while the other side is fighting (the females). Now I'm no genius, but guess who will have to do the work to get themselves noticed and heard? Guess who will have the uphill battle? It's not fair, I know, but the majority of gamers ARE men (and that hasn't changed) so it was never fair to begin with.

Our "deal" (where I get to blame women+men and you get to blame just men) basically does nothing to improve the state of gaming or increase percentage of female gamers - especially on the hardcore side. It really just leaves you where you are, and us where we are (and being male, I can run along with the current state of gaming for as long as it takes, I can adapt to the situation - can you?).

To put an interesting spin on things, during my time in gaming on several occasions I've convinced groups of people online that I was female (since I usually play a female character). They were definitely "nicer" to me, but also sometimes a bit condescending - that is, until I showed them who's can play better. Some were also trolls/jerks, as they will always exist. But I always have my flame-suit and troll-suit on when I go online, I wonder why women don't do the same and just ignore the empty threats thrown at them? Is it really that hard to declare that you're a girl and proceed to kick their ass?

In one of the largest communities (WoW) females are almost always welcome to guilds and accepted everywhere, even though it's often because of the "ooh it's a girl!" factor and less because of the "ooh it's a good player!". That's right, I see female players getting invited to raids and receiving special treatment even though their gear/performance is be sub-par. Whether they like getting treated like that is up to them, but so far I haven't seen the INSANE level of hostility that people in this thread claim to have witnessed. And the WoW community overall is actually pretty terrible.

So it's very jarring for me to imagine my eclectic childhood and then see so many guys getting absolutely choleric over the prospect of women getting anywhere near their precious video games. What I see is nothing less than pure impish outrage. "Look at all these women who hated us before, now they think we're cool! Well they aren't welcome here!" "They don't belong here, they hated us before and now they can't just titillate their way in!" "Attention whores!" "Sluts!"

I'm sorry for the terrible impression us male gamers have left on you, I can see why you hold onto your strong stances (rightfully so).
Be rest assured, I'm not that kind of guy. I hold no notions of exclusive clubs, I hold no resentment against women entering gaming, I wish my fellow bretheren would stop being massive twats towards you. But the internet isn't about to change, it's your move.
All I can say is that if I was a female gamer, I would show the world that I exist, I would either be an equal jerk/troll to fellow multiplayer addicts, or ignore all the hate that some guys sent at me, I would attend events (if I could), I would do my best to show the developers/publishers/stakeholders that female gamers CAN be considered good investment. I want to see the gaming competition fill up with women till they hit the 50% mark, why the hell not? I want to be able to discuss videogaming with girls as openly as I do with guys, why aren't most girls interested in what I did in Skyrim the night before? Shouldn't 42% of them be playing Skyrim?

Right now the industry just isn't convinced (like I'm not convinced) that 42% of gamers are female, there is no reason to believe it unless the fact is rubbed in their faces. Feminist movement has started the process, we'll see how far it goes.

Personally I have been never offended by anything I hear/read over the internet (or in multiplayer), if I was a woman that would not have changed whatsoever. Sure I would be a little bit angry at the oversexualization of females in some games, but I would relate that more to the fact that game developers are mostly male and some of them stoop low enough to titilate the mindset to make a quick buck (because the majority sets the trends).

Moonlight Butterfly:

Risingblade:
I don't get the point of this topic. Girl gamers exist? yeah we know .-.

Well according to some we have to make ourselves known or we have no right to complain about anything ever.

So we better make sure we are super extra vocal about everything now! Won't that be fun!

Yay another vocal group in gaming...

Risingblade:

Moonlight Butterfly:

Risingblade:
I don't get the point of this topic. Girl gamers exist? yeah we know .-.

Well according to some we have to make ourselves known or we have no right to complain about anything ever.

So we better make sure we are super extra vocal about everything now! Won't that be fun!

Yay another vocal group in gaming...

Haha

Don't worry yourself tiny foxlet I'm only being sarcastic :3

Tippy:
snip

I just can't stand this attitude of 'men are in the majority so how about you just deal with abuse, pandering and sexism.'

How about we don't and try and change things for the better. How about that.

It reminds me of the ridiculous argument men had about women voting. 'Well women aren't involved in politics so why should we allow them to vote there's no point'

It's a complete and utter bullshit backwards excuse.

Moonlight Butterfly:

Risingblade:

Moonlight Butterfly:

Well according to some we have to make ourselves known or we have no right to complain about anything ever.

So we better make sure we are super extra vocal about everything now! Won't that be fun!

Yay another vocal group in gaming...

Haha

Don't worry yourself tiny foxlet I'm only being sarcastic :3

Oh dear nine tailed fox gods you're a cruel vocal group as well! o.o

(As we all know) Women are not new to gaming.

Males even didn`t now what famale is, espacially kids. Are we should expected kids realize females can play games? Nope. They think females always in the kitchen and cooking something. Actually they know females can play games. They know it is not new. They just jealous females. They don`t want to belive it. Because they think, playing game is male thing and females won`t play games. It is just all about pride of manhood. That`s all.

The thing is, there's a lot of women gaming. But there aren't a lot of women in the "gaming community". Here, I'll define community as going to cons, being active on message boards, even just being willing to chat/join guilds/etc.

Hey, my wife gamed her entire life (her father tells me she hacked his Apple IIe to get high scores on Star Trek back when she was eight). We used to raid together on the University LAN system (PLATO) before the word internet was coined. In later days, she played MMOs. But she never ever voiced, and rarely even played female toons. She just didn't feel like dealing with it. This isn't some nervous teen, this was a professional gal in her thirties. She wouldn't break down in tears if she got harassed, but it's annoying, ya know?

And she sure as heck had better things to do than hang around on message boards trying to convince people she didn't know that it was okay for her to have fun playing "their" games.

You can't look at "people I know and game with" as representative of all gamers, any more than you can look at your immediate circle of friends and say they're representative of everyone in the city you live in.

Tippy:

Right now the industry just isn't convinced (like I'm not convinced) that 42% of gamers are female, there is no reason to believe it unless the fact is rubbed in their faces. Feminist movement has started the process, we'll see how far it goes.

Actually, those were industry sponsored studies. The people who bet literal millions on marketing demographics believe those statistics-- which have been fairly consistent over the last few years (there's been some recent methodology changes, but that mostly affected the average age stat).

So, no it's not a bunch of Ms. Magazine wielding gurrls who are fudging statistics for a political point.

Mouse One:
snip ...She wouldn't break down in tears if she got harassed, but it's annoying, ya know?

Yep. I do know.

Phasmal:
It does bother me when people act like gaming is something I picked up a few minutes ago and try to explain it to me (I get these type of guys talk to me in game shops- I always considered myself to look like a geeky girl but apparently not). Most recent example was when I was trying to choose between two games (ended up getting both, shut up it was my birthday) when some dude comes up and explains the games to me. Still, he was just trying to be polite so I didn't snap or anything, just kind of politely went `Um... Yeah... Yeah, I know.`
=P

If you're referring to the people employed at the store, then it's their job to come over and help you decide what game you want, or try and tell you about it to make you purchase it. If you're talking about some random guys who approach you because your in a game store inspecting some games and you happen to be female then they could be trying to do the same thing and trying to be nice, or they could be interested at the "unusual phenomenon" they seem to think stands before them, or it could be just as you say, they don't think you know much about games. Unless their tone is insulting (implying they are looking down on you), the first three possibilities stand to be more likely.

Moonlight Butterfly:

Tippy:
snip

I just can't stand this attitude of 'men are in the majority so how about you just deal with abuse, pandering and sexism.'

How about we don't and try and change things for the better. How about that.

It reminds me of the ridiculous argument men had about women voting. 'Well women aren't involved in politics so why should we allow them to vote there's no point'

It's a complete and utter bullshit backwards excuse.

You don't really have a choice at the moment, it's going to take years for things to change.
So until it does, you have to put on your flame-suits and make your presence felt, like men have made THEIR presence felt for the last 20 years.

Shrug off the empty threats and insults thrown around the multiplayer and the internet (I've done it for years), come out of the shadows, kick some ass in gaming. I'm not talking to YOU specifically, but all female gamers.
(Even though I'm convinced like only ~10 girls browsing these forums and the other ~200 people are male--oh god there I go again)

Anyway, strength in numbers girls :)

Tippy:

Moonlight Butterfly:

Tippy:
snip

I just can't stand this attitude of 'men are in the majority so how about you just deal with abuse, pandering and sexism.'

How about we don't and try and change things for the better. How about that.

It reminds me of the ridiculous argument men had about women voting. 'Well women aren't involved in politics so why should we allow them to vote there's no point'

It's a complete and utter bullshit backwards excuse.

You don't really have a choice at the moment, it's going to take years for things to change.
So until it does, you have to put on your flame-suits and make your presence felt, like men have made THEIR presence felt for the last 20 years.

Shrug off the empty threats and insults thrown around the multiplayer and the internet (I've done it for years).

Strength in numbers.

If a guy wants to have a beef with me or my sex I'm going to respond like a female white shark with pups. I'm not going to sit there all demure and quietly put up with it. Things aren't going to change if we don't make a fuss.

Sod that.

Never mind me putting my flame suit on, they are due for some serious backdraft.

DeathStreamer:

Phasmal:
It does bother me when people act like gaming is something I picked up a few minutes ago and try to explain it to me (I get these type of guys talk to me in game shops- I always considered myself to look like a geeky girl but apparently not). Most recent example was when I was trying to choose between two games (ended up getting both, shut up it was my birthday) when some dude comes up and explains the games to me. Still, he was just trying to be polite so I didn't snap or anything, just kind of politely went `Um... Yeah... Yeah, I know.`
=P

If you're referring to the people employed at the store, then it's their job to come over and help you decide what game you want, or try and tell you about it to make you purchase it. If you're talking about some random guys who approach you because your in a game store inspecting some games and you happen to be female then they could be trying to do the same thing and trying to be nice, or they could be interested at the "unusual phenomenon" they seem to think stands before them, or it could be just as you say, they don't think you know much about games. Unless their tone is insulting (implying they are looking down on you), the first three possibilities stand to be more likely.

No, I don't mean people employed there (that would be mental).
As stated, I don't think they mean to be rude, so I generally don't hold it against them. I'd love to have a conversation about the games with them, I'll talk games with anyone! But I don't want them explaining games to me. Unfortunately, the assumption is often that I don't know what I'm doing.
In that situation I don't really know what to do- If I say something like outright `I actually know. You don't need to explain`, it sounds harsh. If I hint that I know what I'm doing, it tends to go straight over their head. I just usually nod and let them get on with it.

Tippy:
Shrug off the empty threats and insults thrown around the multiplayer and the internet (I've done it for years), come out of the shadows, kick some ass in gaming. I'm not talking to YOU specifically, but all female gamers.

Just want to say, there is a ]b]big[/b] difference between an insult or similar grounding itself in something untrue or intangible/undefinable like "you're a noob", and something like "you're a slut" or "you're a faggot" that is tied to something that you use to self-identify and cannot change about yourself. Yes, perhaps you aren't a slut (or perhaps you are to some degree and that just makes someone turning it into an insult even worse), but it is still tying an insult to your self, and that is a little harder to ignore psychologically.

Also the other things you stay still sound vaguely like "it is the way it is so you shouldn't try to change it" when you say something along the lines of

You don't really have a choice at the moment, it's going to take years for things to change.

just so you know.

And I also don't see why men shouldn't be held to the standards of "don't be an abusive, pandering, sexist asshole". And perhaps you don't think that, but that's how it has come off at times. It is as much the job of men to make women welcome as it is women's job to push themselves into the community - if not more so.

... that was a bit of a string of thoughts and kind of disorganized, but I guess I'm just not done saying things.

EDIT: Oh, also, to hell with just sitting around letting people insult people at all. If someone calls me a noob for doing something they don't like, or hell, making a mistake, I'm going to call them out on being a dick, and everyone else should too.

Phasmal:

No, I don't mean people employed there (that would be mental).
As stated, I don't think they mean to be rude, so I generally don't hold it against them. I'd love to have a conversation about the games with them, I'll talk games with anyone! But I don't want them explaining games to me. Unfortunately, the assumption is often that I don't know what I'm doing.
In that situation I don't really know what to do- If I say something like outright `I actually know. You don't need to explain`, it sounds harsh. If I hint that I know what I'm doing, it tends to go straight over their head. I just usually nod and let them get on with it.

Kiiindof off-topic, but I just wanted to throw in on the off chance that it hadn't been tried, maybe, when they start up, something like "oh, yeah, I played the first game in the series" or "it looks a lot like [other game], which I enjoyed". If it doesn't hint to them that you're not-so-inexperienced with games, at least it might get them saying something useful.

Tippy:

I'll eat my own shoe if anyone convinces me that 42% of the people in the above photos are women.

Those photos were just randomly searched of gaming expos. This time I didn't show tournament winners (because the lack of females in that department is scary), this is just random gaming expos.

They're not. You showed us the usual sausage festivals. That's the scary thing. If 40% or thereabouts of gamers are women or girls - even if a much smaller but non-negligible percentage are women or girls - then where the hell are they at visible gaming events like trade shows, competetions, LAN parties etc?

Go to another hobby that's overwhelmingly got a male fan base - whether it be Formula 1 or comic book fandom or pigeon racing - and you'll see far more women there than that. Now, what does that tell you about the culture of gaming?

theblindedhunter:
And I also don't see why men shouldn't be held to the standards of "don't be an abusive, pandering, sexist asshole". And perhaps you don't think that, but that's how it has come off at times. It is as much the job of men to make women welcome as it is women's job to push themselves into the community - if not more so.

Let me guess, your age is >30, right? Because what a load of entitled BS this statement is. It's not my job to do anything just because I was born with a Y chromosome, any more than it's the job of women to get back into the kitchen because they were born with 2 Xs. This whole thread is some of the whiniest, "poor me, the world isn't what I think it is, and it should adjust itself to me rather than me adjusting to it" Millenial bitching I have ever seen.

If you don't like how things are, change them to the extent that you can, don't cry about how other people should bend over backwards to pander to your fluffy little Kumbaya worldview, because that will never, ever happen.

Lilani:

Tenmar:
Except here is the problem when people rail against the video game industry or "communities"(as in not being specific but just being general to further their agenda). The starting point of logic is often a logical fallacy or assumption that the video game industry and culture was somehow built by men to keep women out. Like a conspiracy.

Except, when women do become more prevalent in gaming and nerd culture and you see this much and this kind of backlash, don't you see why a lot of us perceive it that way? Personally, I grew up as an outcast who was friends with other female outcasts, and I didn't think of our group as much. Sure it was nice to have friends with other odd interests like me, but I never reveled in my presence being off-putting to others. And it certainly never offended me when others with different interests or values joined the group. I was a Christian and good friends with another girl who was a Pagan, and then we were friends with a Catholic and two Baptists. Some of them liked Doctor Who, some liked the PowerPuff Girls, some liked Twilight when it came out, some liked Harry Potter, some liked the Lord of the Rings, some liked the Rocky Horror Picture Show, and I liked Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy along with the Pagan girl.

And then there was a guy in my graphic design class who was convinced he was a werewolf. He tried to teach me Magic and gave me all of his cards when he and his friends decided to go back to playing Yu Gi Oh, but I never got too into it because they were done playing Magic and I didn't have any other friends to play it with.

So it's very jarring for me to imagine my eclectic childhood and then see so many guys getting absolutely choleric over the prospect of women getting anywhere near their precious video games. What I see is nothing less than pure impish outrage. "Look at all these women who hated us before, now they think we're cool! Well they aren't welcome here!" "They don't belong here, they hated us before and now they can't just titillate their way in!" "Attention whores!" "Sluts!"

The only explanations I can come up with are either spiteful resentment, or the idea that their "nerdy" groups of friends they formed did not value diversity, or strangers joining in whenever they wanted and with whatever interests they had. Their groups were exclusive, reveling in their exile from the "norm." If that's the case, then it makes perfect sense that they would be so threatened by people seeking them out. What they valued in being a nerd and a gamer wasn't playing games, at least not entirely. They liked being reclusive and pariah. That was their identity. So now that games are mainstream, and the people they ignored and were happily ignored by are knocking at their door, their perception of games is crumbling. Games were the thing that set them apart, and now women want in? The same women who reviled them in school? Absurd! If they want in, they're going to have to prove themselves worthy of being in our club!

When new people hung out with my nerdy friends, I never once saw any of them demand that the new person offer proof they truly belong with us. We just hung out. And if it lead us to be excluded by other groups of students, that was purely happenstance, and we certainly didn't enjoy being exiled for simply doing what we enjoyed. New people in our group weren't a threat to the norm--the norm was always fluctuating anyway. Nobody ever felt threatened a new person would change anything, at least anything that wasn't going to change at some point anyway.

So that is why I get the feeling some guys see games and nerd culture as a sort of exclusive club, rather than a ragtag collection of outcasts. Perhaps some resentment for past treatment from the mainstream is present as well, but from what I'm seeing whenever this topic comes up I truly believe there are some men out there who from the very beginning used games and nerd culture as a way of distancing themselves from others. They purposefully formed an "old boy's club" because it brought them comfort. Perhaps it was the only way for them to meet with their other nerdy friends who all happened to be guys as well, but if the backlash toward women wanting to join in on the fun is so intense, then they must hold it in great esteem that women were never a part of their group.

This is going to take a while to respond to. But let me say this first.

I think the big thing here when I think about posts on this topic is how I notice that it really comes down to the macrocosm which is overgeneralized where anyone can pretty much say anything as fact without any actual evidence or grounding and the microcosm which is the actual lives we personally live from the friends and family that play video games with us. But for some reason it is these types of topics where people now more than ever have let the macrocosm affect their microcosm by being obsessed and constantly connected online and focused on the negative, the outrage and how everything is an us vs them scenario. Yet I'd have to honestly ask that with all the crap that happens online does it truly affect me when I play games? To me the answer is no and I don't let any crap like that affect me at all. So I get told to kill myself, I get told I'm bad at a game I play, I'm called racist and these are things that happen everyday. But when I start playing with the people that I call my friends the reality is that this big bad monster really is nothing more than a gnat that is easily squashed. Only if you perceive the problem as gigantic or don't actually take the steps to make friends will the problem be as big but that is a problem that is self created.

I am honestly reminded of school, I was picked on a lot and pretty much segregated from everyone despite being that white male that is perceived as that holy status. The reality is that I made friends that actually wanted to be by me and know that I wasn't going to get along with everyone and that's how the world works. When people expect everyone to be friends that is just unrealistic and the same is true for online gaming. Some people are just not going to get along. Doesn't mean that person is bad or evil, just like being a school playground some people aren't going to connect. And you know what? That's okay. But when people try and control how other people treat other people it honestly does go way too far.

Now for your post.

Honestly? I see backlash in everything and this is no different. But notice how you already make that base assumption that somehow the video game industry and just named ALL the people who play video games as some interconnected community that all these people involved created video games to keep women out. That's what makes this illogical especially during a time where people weren't connected across the world and often just connected on a state or national level. And for kids? Heck forget that you'd be lucky to be connected to your entire county instead of just one city.

Most kids during the nintendo and atari boom grew up as outcasts. It was perceived as the nerdy thing to do and it wasn't cool for a while. But there are a million stories like yours and mine and there will be millions more. But when you honestly ask yourself, did any of these men or boys really somehow go into your home and try and take your games away with the reasoning that "video games aren't for girls"? It is highly doubtful.

The thing I see is that people don't know how different online and offline interactions are and understand why they are different. Especially when you consider that you are often playing with new people CONSTANTLY and would be lucky assuming you play pug only games that you would meet the same people. Have you ever thought that maybe they just had negative experiences playing game with another person who happened to be a woman cost them the match? Some people like actually being competitive and it is frustrating when say in a match of league of legends your ally decides to get himself ganked over and over again and it costs your team the match despite everyone else performing their role well.

Have you also thought that people don't like having certain topics rubbed into their face. It reminds me an episode of Politically incorrect with Bill Maher on feminism and one of the guests she states that one of the reasons that feminism hurts its own cause was due to the fact that there are people who simply rub it into other people's faces in a hostile fashion or nagging fashion that it prevents them from actually caring. When you consider that video games have a lot of teen and children playing having a person be in their face and state that everything they actually enjoy is somehow sexist and how they are going to hate women or are sexist isn't going to help but only make people upset. People honestly don't really care about the feminist theory and not everything in life has to be looked through that lens nor does it have to constantly be rubbed in people's faces. People need to enjoy their life and the things they love.

We build our own world much like the Bastion. Sometimes we choose who we want to relate to and get along with. Sometimes the people we meet just don't get along and just go separate ways. It's not that people are making some club and intentionally excluding people but more often that they are either comfortable with the people they socialize with or that initial impression just rubbed them the wrong way. The thing is you shouldn't force anything onto another person and just focus on building your own world. I mean it isn't like when you go to a convention you are going to get along with everyone or that everyone wants to socialize.

But the one thing I do notice throughout your post is that when it always came to the online you let the macrocosm affect how you feel and let that be your reality when it honestly sounds like the thing that really matters the microcosm is just like everyone else's microcosm. A place where you and your friends don't care about your gender but just like sitting around and playing games. That's the reality, and the people who actually don't like women to play games with them are certainly a minority and you shouldn't focus on the negative hearing or reading on all these negative experiences between people be some narrative of the few rule over the millions and millions of positive but never spoken experiences between people who don't give a damn about a person's gender when playing video games.

I doubt the people who made Atari knew that boys would adopt electronic entertainment a bit more than women. Nor do the people of nintendo. Nor is there some giant community where every male that plays video games is connected with every other male and intentionally want to keep women out.

Look I know I'm rambling here but it is honestly a tiring fight because people who honestly feel this strongly about the issues are often starting their whole crusade on a false notion or assumption and nothing I say can change their mind. It's just that you can't let what you read on some dumb website or let those random games with people that go south let that be the deciding factor of the male gender when the people who really matter in your life are the ones that want to connect with you. I mean I'm a very lonely person right now and yet if I honestly let all that negativity from playing video games really affect me then I would have committed suicide a LONG time ago. I've gone two years unemployed, have no money and spend each day looking for work, ANY WORK. I don't get to go out with friends or anything. But it is honestly just sad when people just let some nebulous entity or have some person on youtube dictate that every person that is a man that plays video games is sexist be perceived as fact when the first thing everyone should be looking at first is their own backyard and actually think in their life if that is actually true. I'm sorry but what the internet thinks and what people like Anita think is incorrect. They aren't sexist, video games weren't made to exclude women. The only thing that excludes people from their hobby is other people usually comes from that negative experiences or other social interactions that shaped that person's world to what it is today be it a broken family, a broken heart, or just getting burned too many times.

EDIT: Apparently I quoted the wrong person, my mistake.

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