Injustice 2 really triggers my feminism. There, I said it.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT
 

I think you need to more properly articulate your feelings on the matter OP or rather try and find possible reasons for why you feel that way rather than just a feeling i.e maybe wonder womans ending sequence is her pole dancing or some nonsense.

Personally I am more concerned with how aggressive they are going to be with the DLC and the quality of the core gameplay (especially on release) as it has been 2 issues I have had with Netherealms games since MK9. Basically lots of flash (geddit) but little substance.

Kerg3927:
And there is a general type of female form that is found attractive by the majority of (not all) gamers, i.e. heterosexual males.

Largely because they're effectively conditioned into it, yes, and it's often very fair to consider the beauty norms deeply questionable.

And if a developer wants to design a game so that it appeals to the largest part of the market, they shouldn't be demonized for that.

Who's demonising them? People are free to create designs, and people are just as free to critique them.

I'm not trying to be combative, as I'm just speaking from my point of view.

Half-naked and form showing isn't really sexy to me. I get that I'm different than most, but it's showing body form. As anyone who studied martial arts know, there's more benefits to tighter or even less clothing you were in terms of fighting. Less chance for you to actually get caught up in extraneous clothing, more freedom of movement, and less for someone to grab.

Trust me, when you spend years paying a company to teach others to grab you by lapels and flip you around, you tend to see things like that as a bad thing.

I understand why battle clothes would be slight and tight. Even less clothing than normal.

I do not like that every woman has sultry in her voice. In the terms of trying to intimidate, making me think with my dick would do nothing to help your cause. I would never try to lead by constantly bringing attention to my wonderful pecs, so other than Ivy, I don't get why others do the same.

Also, I do want to ask the question... What is sexy in men? Like, if a man wanted to do the same thing that women in comics do, how would we go about that?

JUMBO PALACE:

shrekfan246:

Funny that, "idealized male forms" tend to be... power fantasies for other males.

Now, you can argue that Johnny Cage is a sexy hunk of manmeat for ladies to feast upon if you really want, but he wasn't actually designed with that in mind. He was designed to be the idealized form of a Hollywood action star, who are generally used to appeal to men who want to see stuff blow up rather than women who want to see studly men blowing things up. The latter tends to just be a side-effect of the initial intention.

Genuine questions here- not trying to stir the pot at all:

What exactly is the problem with hunky dudes being a male power fantasy? I understand I'm painting in broad strokes but I don't think it's too far from the truth to say that at least a large portion of the female population is interested in men who are in good shape. Maybe tastes differ quite a bit from that on this website which attracts a lot of anime and video games fans, but big muscles and cut body are always something I've associated with male attractiveness. If the women get some titillation why is it a problem if the men enjoy the character designs as well? And full disclosure, this is coming from a guy who spends 5-6 days a week in the gym, but also someone who considers himself to be a feminist and is dating a girl with a Women & Gender studies degree who teaches sex ed and gender issues. If we're both ogling Chris Pratt's abs because she wants to lick them and I want to have them, what's the problem?

It's not so much that there's a problem with it as there's a problem in acknowledging the difference between how male and female characters are designed.

In a general sense, male characters are designed for the benefit of male watchers, and female characters are designed... for the benefit of male watchers. With fairly scarce (but thankfully growing) exceptions, the fact that any characters appeal to a female audience is just a happy accident.

The actual issue comes in when people (generally the ones who blindly oppose the supposed "feminist" imposition on video games that apparently wants to remove sexy characters) try to use hunky male characters as a 1:1 comparison to female characters. It doesn't work that way, because male characters aren't designed for the express purpose of appealing to women. Think of Bayonetta versus Dante or Kratos. There are two arguments to be made about the sexualization of Bayonetta, depending on how you personally view her proportions, but the fact of the matter is that she is designed to be conventionally attractive (once again, barring the fact that she's the personification of "legs for days") and not only is her power set built around using her sexuality for her strength, but the camera relishes her abilities, longingly lingering on how she utilizes her body in combat. Dante, by contrast, is only even arguably sexualized in Devil May Cry 3, where he's a fairly conventionally attractive bishonen-type character. While the camera once again likes to show off how he uses his agility, there is no aggressive focus on his body, rather than what he's actually doing. And Kratos, well, should be obvious, but he's pure physical power fantasy, and any sexual attractiveness which can be associated with him happens purely as happenstance from him being a Greek hero analogue.

Male characters being male power fantasies aren't a problem. Female characters being male sexual fantasies aren't necessarily a problem. But those two things are the disproportionate number of characters which exist; the converse of female characters who are female power fantasies and male characters who are female sexual fantasies are exceedingly rare. In video games, at least, the ones which do exist are largely biproducts of people who happen to be okay writers/designers.

oRevanchisto:

Supergirl looks like a perfect physical specimen but she isn't trying to flaunt her tits and ass in your face. That's a key difference between someone like her and a sexualized character like Harley Quinn.

The thing is, Harley Quinn is TRYING to use her sexual characteristics to distract and deceive. Her sexuallization is on purpose for her character. And if it is part of her character, then what's the problem. Nobody gave Bayonetta shit for doing the same thing.

If you are going to say that perfect female bodies in skin tight revealing outfits is okay so long as there isn't blatant sexualization around it then fine. But at very least keep your standards consistant and consider the character. Black Cat is a heroine/villian who uses her body to get what she wants, Catwoman the same, so if their sexualization is part of their character, then why is it a problem. Their sexiness is for THEM, not for the men around them.

shrekfan246:
Snip

Thanks for typing all that out. I definitely see your point in that the intent behind the character design is the main thing you're taking issue with and I can respect that. I'm a little more choosy with what I get invested in when it comes to these things so like I said to the OP, a game like Injustice doesn't really bother me. I think people get rightly upset over these types of things like in Metroid other M and other games that exploit women (their form or otherwise), but I don't personally mind a little T&A in my fighting games.

JUMBO PALACE:
I think people get rightly upset over these types of things like in Metroid other M and other games that exploit women (their form or otherwise), but I don't personally mind a little T&A in my fighting games.

Well, that's the rub, right? There's nothing wrong with liking that sort of thing, and the only people who "demonize" it are memes on the internet. It's just, sometimes it's nice to get some things that aren't solely designed to be appealing to me and me only, you know?

Starfire made me cringe, but other than that it didn't seem any more cheesecakey that the first one to me.

I dislike all of the ways all of the neatherealms characters look equally across all of their games, purely from an aesthetic point of view, irrespective of political ideology.

Gameplay-wise, this company creates games which over-simplify the genre, removing options and timing in exchange for easy inputs, making for a dull fighting game. Instead of allowing you to have access to all of your attacks, some (most) will be hidden behind other attacks, meaning that you can't just throw out those hidden ones anytime during neutral maneuvering but that you only get to utilize those "starting" attacks, severely limiting your options. In stark contrast, the games I tend to play at tournaments all let you use almost every single move a char has in their inventory at any moment in any timing, making for a robust and varied spectacle.

I recommend something like Guilty Gear Xrd Revelator 2 which will be out in under 3 weeks if you're looking for a good, gorgeous and deep fighting game. The demo is out on ps4 as we speak and has all base characters and versus/training mode.

CritialGaming:

oRevanchisto:

Supergirl looks like a perfect physical specimen but she isn't trying to flaunt her tits and ass in your face. That's a key difference between someone like her and a sexualized character like Harley Quinn.

The thing is, Harley Quinn is TRYING to use her sexual characteristics to distract and deceive. Her sexuallization is on purpose for her character. And if it is part of her character, then what's the problem. Nobody gave Bayonetta shit for doing the same thing.

If you are going to say that perfect female bodies in skin tight revealing outfits is okay so long as there isn't blatant sexualization around it then fine. But at very least keep your standards consistant and consider the character. Black Cat is a heroine/villian who uses her body to get what she wants, Catwoman the same, so if their sexualization is part of their character, then why is it a problem. Their sexiness is for THEM, not for the men around them.

That's what I already stated. Sexualization is fine for a character like Harley Quinn or Catwoman but it'd be different if every female character was like that or if it was Supergirl.

Nature Guardian:
It's not true. Plenty of women have what you call "assets" but do not want to overly flaunt them. Conversely, there's also unattractive women who still can't wait to show their "assets".

Choosing to "show your assets" is anyone's decision and no, it has not so much to do with wether you're actually hot or not, and a lot to do with your mindset and personal wishes.

So yeah, in real life, there's plenty of attractive women who don't wear in high heels and miniskirts. And viceversa.

Of course some do not. I said "tend to," and I guess "flaunt" was too strong of a word. Most of it is more subtle. And I think a big reason, whether conscious or not, is to attract a mate, keep a mate, or gain influence/power over men who "tend" to think with their reproductive anatomy.

Nature Guardian:
I'm not going to deny someone somewhere has the goal to remove sexy female characters. Oh, I'm sure there's people like that who call themselves "feminists".
But I would hope you do not think those people can actually ever achieve their crazy goal.

What we might achieve is what the big majority of feminists actually want - equality and respect.

Good to know.

Nature Guardian:
Ok, this right here, THIS is where I have a problem with you now.

"Your opinion is not the same as mine, so your opinion is by definition an irrelevant minority".

You know, change happens. Society evolves. During black people slavery, someone certainly said that the opinion that black people should be equal to white people was.... the opinion of a minority, who should learn to shut up and not expect much.

I didn't say "irrelevant." I'm just saying that real life is more like the House of Representatives than the Senate. Or like the U.S. electoral college. Texas had a MUCH bigger say in who our President is than Vermont. The same holds true for gaming markets. If 5% of the market is offended it's not a huge deal. But if they turn off the heterosexual males who make up 60% of the market by removing all of the hot chicks from the game, lots of people are going to get fired. The latter group has a lot more wallets (votes) than the former.

Nature Guardian:
And it just so happens you belong to what YOU call "the majority of the market". What a perfect coincidence.

I'm not going to apologize for being born a heterosexual male. Nor for wishing that Cora in Mass Effect Andromeda looked more like Miranda Lawson and less like a gorilla.

Nature Guardian:

I agree that variety is best. I just don't want us to get to a point where sexy supermodel type characters who flaunt it are not "allowed," which is I think a goal of some feminists (maybe not you). The fact is, in real life, women who have assets tend to use them, and why not?

Uhrm, sometimes they do. But does anyone here really believe that your average woman, walking to the shops to get groceries or pick up her kids or buy some petrol, is necessarily "flaunting her assets" for male attention? It's nonsense. That sounds like severe tunnel-vision.

Nature Guardian:
I don't want every developer to go the direction of Bioware, making conscious decisions to design characters to be less attractive in order to fit an agenda.

The female protag looked kind of normal, and some people thought the model was hawter than the character. That's literally all there was to that. This bizarre conspiracy theory-- that Bioware doesn't like hawt women, because of political reasons they never expressed-- really is very, very funny.

Kerg3927:

I'm not going to apologize for being born a heterosexual male.

Nobody asked you to, or expressed anything of that kind whatsoever.

"I want games to cater to me!!!!" If you really do believe you are the "majority", vote with your wallet. Most AAA games have marketing analysts and the current belief for most devs is "sex sells" and "most fighting games players are male". Prove them wrong and they will shift their market, but I doubt you are the majority.

EDIT: Deleted because irrelevant to thread.

Silvanus:

Nature Guardian:

I agree that variety is best. I just don't want us to get to a point where sexy supermodel type characters who flaunt it are not "allowed," which is I think a goal of some feminists (maybe not you). The fact is, in real life, women who have assets tend to use them, and why not?

Uhrm, sometimes they do. But does anyone here really believe that your average woman, walking to the shops to get groceries or pick up her kids or buy some petrol, is necessarily "flaunting her assets" for male attention? It's nonsense. That sounds like severe tunnel-vision.

Nature Guardian:
I don't want every developer to go the direction of Bioware, making conscious decisions to design characters to be less attractive in order to fit an agenda.

The female protag looked kind of normal, and some people thought the model was hawter than the character. That's literally all there was to that. This bizarre conspiracy theory-- that Bioware doesn't like hawt women, because of political reasons they never expressed-- really is very, very funny.

Kerg3927:

I'm not going to apologize for being born a heterosexual male.

Nobody asked you to, or expressed anything of that kind whatsoever.

I said in a later post that "flaunting" was too strong of a word. How about "display?" Anyway, I don't think there is any question that the majority of women, especially young women, usually take steps before leaving the house to increase their attractiveness, whether it's to put on makeup, decide what to wear, etc. Guys do the same thing, minus the makeup. Also, all those young people working out in gyms around the world aren't doing it primarily for cardiovascular health. They're in there busting their ass because they want to make themselves look good.

I also don't think there is any question that Bioware, for whatever reason, intentionally made Sara Rider look much uglier than the model. They also intentionally made the Asari race look much less attractive than they were in the original trilogy. I wouldn't necessarily call that conspiracy theory. It's just simple observation. The only other explanation I can think of is artist incompetence, and I doubt that was the case with Bioware's resources.

Elijin:
If they changed it, wouldn't that be the devs caving in and changing something because a few people whined about it on the internet just because they didn't get it?

Injustice 2 is the new Overwatch.

Kerg3927:

I didn't say "irrelevant." I'm just saying that real life is more like the House of Representatives than the Senate. Or like the U.S. electoral college. Texas had a MUCH bigger say in who our President is than Vermont. The same holds true for gaming markets. If 5% of the market is offended it's not a huge deal. But if they turn off the heterosexual males who make up 60% of the market by removing all of the hot chicks from the game, lots of people are going to get fired. The latter group has a lot more wallets (votes) than the former.

Ehh, you might want to choose a different example. While TX as a state had a bigger impact, each individual vote was worth less than a vote from someone in Vermont.

Plus it kinda sounds like your saying that everyone woman has to be sexy that she has to not only be sexy but generically sexy. Like whats her name from the transformers movies... Megan Fox, are you saying you want Megan Fox as every woman?

To add to the marketing argument, wither or not it's a good thing, it is none the less an understandable thing that fighting games are targeted towards a male audience with macho male designs and sexy female designs.

http://quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/genre-gender-percentages.png
http://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

Something tells me that the market share isn't 50%/50% for the fighting game genre. While not in the article above, my guess is a bit more in the 90%/10% range.

maninahat:
Maybe they were looking forward to a game franchise they enjoy, and now they know they won't enjoy it because it has been affected by a bad, sexist design decisions?

It is funny how you complain about the abuse of the word "trigger" but then throw around terms like "virtue signalling", as though that would apply here in the slightest. It is also weird that you would complain about someone pretending their preferences are a morally righteous stance, when you then include a plight to those with PTSD whilst dismissing someone's opinion on videogames.

It's understandable to be disappointed in a sequel to a game that you liked. However, it's not "sexist". Actually, I did look at the roster of fighters before I posted. Their costumes are pretty tame. So, what the OP is expressing is a preference.

As someone who took the accusations of "sexism" in videogames seriously, over time I realized that it wasn't sexism. It's people trying to claim that their personal opinion is coming from a moral position. Somehow, they felt their complaints were somehow more valid when couched in gender studies buzzwords.

One of those buzzwords is "triggered". Which is a good example of people, who are complaining about first world sexism, exaggerate their importance of their opinions. There are people who seriously have to deal with PTSD and getting triggered. Do you know who doesn't have to worry about that? People who play video games. Also, do you know who have to worry about sexism? Women living in third world countries. Women living under Sharia Law, dealing with Boko Harem, and female circumcision. Not women who's biggest concerns is what video games characters look like.

My point is about perspective. When someone is claiming that a video game "triggered" their "feminism", I think it's time to call "Bullshit!" Just admit that you don't like the character design and debate on how they should have done it better. Don't pretend that you are taking a stand for social justice when you are complaining about a video game.

Chaosian:
To add to the marketing argument, wither or not it's a good thing, it is none the less an understandable thing that fighting games are targeted towards a male audience with macho male designs and sexy female designs.

http://quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/genre-gender-percentages.png
http://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/

Something tells me that the market share isn't 50%/50% for the fighting game genre. While not in the article above, my guess is a bit more in the 90%/10% range.

As far as competitive scenes go, even 10% is way too high. The most prominent female players in certain games were born with a penis for one, which also contributes because they got into fighters back when they were still male.

Fighting games are more than any other genre all about competition and beating the other person as opposed to any form of co-operation or synergy. You will be lucky to run into any single female player who isn't accompanying a male acquaintance of hers or who wasn't introduced (reluctantly, most of the time) to the games a friend/partner of hers adores and joins up in order to just hang out with him and the group but is mostly dispassionate about the actual games being played, at least when contrasted to the other people there who practice for 5 hours a day to place highly and win the tourney.

A lot of times, my veteran mentoring status prompts me to try and help all new faces to an event but I tend to find a disappointing lack of enthusiasm in these circumstances when the person is there just cause a friend dragged em along and while I get it and it can't be helped that someone isn't interested in something, it would be hella awesome if more people of all groups were to genuinely care about joining up in playing fighting games passionately and with hype.

Kerg3927:

Of course some do not. I said "tend to," and I guess "flaunt" was too strong of a word. Most of it is more subtle. And I think a big reason, whether conscious or not, is to attract a mate, keep a mate, or gain influence/power over men who "tend" to think with their reproductive anatomy.

Interesting how "because they think they look good" almost never makes this sort of list. And ease up on the misandry.

I looked up a couple of trailers and didn't see anything too egregious.

If anything the thing I found most distracting is how bad some of the characters' faces looked.

Maybe I just didn't see the right trailers (not going to spend half an hour looked at every trailer for each character). If there's a specific trailer or character that got the OP's goat then he should just post it, which he has yet to do.

Wish someone would post links to some examples so that we'd actually have something tangible to talk about...

KissingSunlight:

maninahat:
[snip]

As someone who took the accusations of "sexism" in videogames seriously, over time I realized that it wasn't sexism. It's people trying to claim that their personal opinion is coming from a moral position. Somehow, they felt their complaints were somehow more valid when couched in gender studies buzzwords.

One of those buzzwords is "triggered". Which is a good example of people, who are complaining about first world sexism, exaggerate their importance of their opinions. There are people who seriously have to deal with PTSD and getting triggered. Do you know who doesn't have to worry about that? People who play video games. Also, do you know who have to worry about sexism? Women living in third world countries. Women living under Sharia Law, dealing with Boko Harem, and female circumcision. Not women who's biggest concerns is what video games characters look like.

My point is about perspective. When someone is claiming that a video game "triggered" their "feminism", I think it's time to call "Bullshit!" Just admit that you don't like the character design and debate on how they should have done it better. Don't pretend that you are taking a stand for social justice when you are complaining about a video game.

I don't think complaining about female objectification or ridiculous double standards is just a matter of preference. If these are valid criticisms OP is making, they would also come under what is generally understood to be sexism. The fact that there are worse acts of sexism in the developing world doesn't mean we can't address the problems here. When my wife tells me to get on with fixing the dishwasher I don't retort with "but what about Africa?" and go back to watching tv, I get on with fixing the dishwasher. And also maybe later do something about Africa as well (because damning someone's complaint by saying there are bigger problems more worthy of attention, only to then have no personal interest in dealing with those bigger problems, is an act of blatant hypocrisy).

As to abusing terminology, a lot of words on the internet get abused and devalued. Yes it is a shame that a word used to describe PTSD is now used as a synonym for "irritated", but in such instances its usually clear in which sense someone means the word. OP is using triggered in an informal sense. It is also clear they mean sexism in the actual sense.

shrekfan246:

Male characters being male power fantasies aren't a problem. Female characters being male sexual fantasies aren't necessarily a problem. But those two things are the disproportionate number of characters which exist; the converse of female characters who are female power fantasies and male characters who are female sexual fantasies are exceedingly rare. In video games, at least, the ones which do exist are largely biproducts of people who happen to be okay writers/designers.

Disagree.

This claim regularly comes up, but how much prove is there ? It is already hard to get good statistics on how many character models are idealized and how many are not, but actually proving if those idealized body types are appeal to women or men is basically impossible. And i actually doubt that there is such a big discrepancy.

Most games use only a small number of actual models with slight modifications in colour, face and hair. That is especcially true, if different kind of clothing is shown for the same characters and only one model needs to be tested for clipping errors and animations. And if it is already decided to use only one or two models, companies always use either average or idealized forms that could work for the majority of characters. Outliers are usually left over for some dialoge NPCs, who get only one set of clothing and nearly no animations.
So the lonely barkeeper might be the only obese person in a world of (identical) idealized human forms, but you won't find a lot of games where nearly everyone shares the same outlier bodytype and the ideal or average form is used for rare NPCs. That is the main rason games are like they are.

Now for sexualization vs. Power Fantasy. Well, probably depends on the game, the intended audience (and marketing ideas about them) and what the actual audience makes of it.

But look at games like XCOM and XCOM2. Shared model. Certainly attractive/idealized for both males and females. (Imho the male versions are more idealized while the female model is more close to an everyday women). Nearly identical clothing, identical animations everywhere and certainly identical roles/power in the game. How can you justify saying that the idealized men here are power fantasy and the idealized women are eye candy ? You can't.

And that seems true for the majority of games. (considering only games that actually have male and female models and also ignoring those 'adult' games that are basically porn in game form)

Game marketing, box art etc. are far far worse than actual games because artists don't get anything from reusing models or animations and sex still sells.

Didn't actually play Injustice 2, so i keep it more general.

ObsidianJones:
Also, I do want to ask the question... What is sexy in men? Like, if a man wanted to do the same thing that women in comics do, how would we go about that?

*Cough* Allspice advert *cough*

But really, based on my scant knowledge of what women like in men, and what I also like in men, I think there are plenty of categories of guy that women are into. In X Men: First Class, for instance, women generally like at least one of these three:

Magneto, who is attractive in a classical, tall, elegant sense. He's the kind of guy who would offer you his jacket on a cold night, or take you to sophisticated stuff, or pay for your meal if you don't say anything (but wouldn't mind if you said you wanted to go dutch).

Logan, who is this oily, muscly bear of a guy who would carry you into a log cabin, build you some nice furniture, or give you a hell of a shagging.

Prof. X, who is the sensitive, cute, nerdy type of guy. The sort who'd geek out over movies, and be really excited to hear about you are into reading.

As to game character design, women generally seem to prefer people who are fit but also plausibly proportioned. Confident without being too much of an asshole. Also pretty, without being absurdly gnarled up. Also someone who is fleshed out enough to have a personality beyond "revenge grrr". Basically this shirtless hack:

image

Hey, guys, it's lengthy to go and pick everyone I want to quote, so I'll be lazy and reply to every point I want to reply to, without quoting them. I hope you will still notice I am talking to you, yes, YOU!!!

1) WHAT IS THE MALE EQUIVALENT OF THE SKIMPY/SEXY FEMALE CHARACTERS? Easy peasy, a skimpy/sexy male character. Japan is very good at this. Japan usually gets a free pass from me with their hypersexualization of females, because they tend to do almost the same to male characters. Some random examples:

image

image

image

image

Now here's the fun fact, these characters are MEANT to be sexy, but it doesn't mean everyone who likes males will find them sexy. For example I don't like pretty boys like the protagonists of FFXV, they do nothing for me: but I am fully aware they have been consciously designed to be considered sexy.
Same thing applies to hot halfnaked chicks: not everyone likes the same kind of female body and attitude; but what matters is that they've been designed to be sexy.
I'm not a huge fan of sexualized male designs but I don't dislike them either. I just like it when a game counterbalances an halfnaked chick with an halfnaked stud.

2) Being a straight male has nothing to do with this. Finding things sexy versus accepting sexism are two VERY different things. You can be a fully heterosexual woman and be sexist towards females. You can be a horny heterosexual male and hate sexism.

3) NUDITY AND SEXY ARE NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL. Just pointing it out.

4) Here's a problem I have with Injustice 2. This is the female plant-person:

image

This is the male plant-person:

image

This is the female beast:

image

This is the male beast:

image

Well, just to argue your last point, those characters are not really comparable, I mean the two women are humans augmented with plant/animal attributes and the other two are a straight up gorilla and sentient pile of yard waist. They are all unrelated and from completely different series so it's not a ugly male Orc/hot female Orc situation.

Ivy has always been a femme fatal vamp type, so she's pretty in character (whether you think she should be in the game in the first place is another debate).

Cheetah loin cloth is pretty revealing, unless you look at her comic-self:

image

Cheetah was always more creepy then sexy though, that my be just me. Regardless she's Wonder Woman's main baddie, so she should be in the game.

SirSullymore:
Well, just to argue your last point, those characters are not really comparable, I mean the two women are humans augmented with plant/animal attributes and the other two are a straight up gorilla and sentient pile of yard waist. They are all unrelated and from completely different series so it's not a ugly male Orc/hot female Orc situation.

Ivy has always been a femme fatal vamp type, so she's pretty in character (whether you think she should be in the game in the first place is another debate).

Cheetah loin cloth is pretty revealing, unless you look at her comic-self:

Cheetah was always more creepy then sexy though, that my be just me. Regardless she's Wonder Woman's main baddie, so she should be in the game.

I dunno, I feel my point still stands.

I have no problem with Cheetah's loincloth: if there's a character who should be halfnaked, it's her. Heck, I'd like it if she was fully naked, if only our society didn't forbid integral nudity in media.

The problem arises when you consider this is the "female beast" they decided to put in the roster, versus the "male beast" who looks like a full actual ape. I understand this isn't just Netherrealms but an issue in the comic book industry. But they COULD have made Cheetah more animal-like. And don't say "that's not how she looks like in the comics" because it just depends on what comic we're talking about.

Ivy is another matter. I always hated Poison Ivy, because she could be a FANTASTIC character, but instead they turned her into some generic evil seductress. The same exact thing happened to Harley Quinn, which could've been great, but is degraded to be mostly a different type of evil seductress.

I once found a beautiful redesign of Poison Ivy as a kind old grandma. It was really terrifying, and much more interesting than the generic cover girl we got.

I guess were're just thinking about this from two different angles, with you thinking they were going "we need some badass dudes and some sexy ladies first and foremost" (which, don't get me wrong, could totally be true) and me thinking it was more like "we need at least one Wonder Woman villain and at least one Flash villain and half the roster has to be Batman characters, who can have the best move set?"

Then again the fact that they doubled-up abilities and fighting styles so much (Cheetah/Catwoman, Ivy/Swamppy, Cold/Sub-Zero) kind of throws off my diverse roster point. Haha

Meh. At this point I just wish developers would release every game with a different set of skins for male characters where they wear tight denim shorts and a unbuttoned flannel shirt, and their idle animation is them oiling their manly chests, looking all sexy. And you will have to use these skins in your first playthrough, you can only unlock the "real" skins once you beat the game.

Paragon Fury:

oRevanchisto:
I want to agree with you but then again I know jackshit about comics besides the animated shows I watched growing up. Thus, I don't know if they are being faithful to the female characters or not. Got any examples of bad female character designs?

I'm sorry, I know there is a thread going on here but WHAT or WHO is your avatar and more importantly how have you dodged mod wrath thus far?

Yea, his avatar is the best content on the escapist.

Nature Guardian:
I understand this isn't just Netherrealms but an issue in the comic book industry.

Comics are not the same as video games. Other audience, other cultural implications, completely different priorities for designing characters. And a long history with lots of baggage.

You are complaining about comic designs originating decades ago. Yes, comic book industry was incredibly pretty sexist at certain times. And yes, licensed games with all time favorite characters will still show some of the baggage attached.

Satinavian:

Nature Guardian:
I understand this isn't just Netherrealms but an issue in the comic book industry.

Comics are not the same as video games. Other audience, other cultural implications, completely different priorities for designing characters. And a long history with lots of baggage.

You are complaining about comic designs originating decades ago. Yes, comic book industry was incredibly pretty sexist at certain times. And yes, licensed games with all time favorite characters will still show some of the baggage attached.

Actually, no.

Yes, the comic industry was very sexist.
Now however things are changing, so why is this videogame applying certain standards that became old and sexist 20 years ago?

My answer is, because the game doesn't have a better opinion of its audience. And why was Injustice somehow way less sexist-seeming than Injustice 2?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.950086.23967077

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.950086.23967078

I just kinda sorta have to laugh at the first two posters' avatar/comment combos in this situation.

Having said that, I don't really notice much of a difference. MKX women were more realistically proportioned, but their personalities seemed to appeal to their sexuality accordingly. I mean look at Mileena; she's probably more overtly sexual than anyone. Maybe they could've made Ivy more feminist, idk.

I don't really have a dog in this particular fight, but as far as the American comics industry being "sexist"?

I'd suggest that anyone who actually believes that google certain Italian comic artists, like Guido Crepax, Paolo Eleuteri Serpieri, Milo Manara, Nik Guerra, Giovanna Casotto, Cristina Fabris, Apollonia Saintclair or Rosita Amici, and keep in mind comics in Italy are held in as much respect as any other art form.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here