The Orville - Star Trek Fanfiction...with penis jokes.

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So The Orville premiered, Seth McFarland's 4th tv show.
Now I'll be the first to admit I find Family Guy funny. Not ever episode, and there can be long strings with lackluster jokes, but the Star Wars parodies were nearly perfect in their execution and ribbing of the subject material.
And I'm a big Trek fan, so I was looking forward to a good roast of the beloved, but lets be honest, silly, Trek universe.

The result? A resounding...meh.

The premise is simple, but at the same time derivative. Seth is the recently promoted captain of the Orville, his estranged ex-wife is his first officer, and they have a lovable band of misfits for their command crew.
And it is so close to Star Trek it feels lazy. They have a Klingon stand-in character, a spunky chief of security with a weird forehead which is totally not Bajoran, and black, and of course the android that doesn't understand human emotions.
It is so close to an episode of TNG it makes me wonder how it got greenlit in the first place. Its almost legally actionable, as if McFarland wrote a script of a new Trek pilot, got turned down, and changed the bare minimum required to get the show approved but still Star Trek.
Early on Seth's character says he's always wanted to be a captain, and its obvious its just Seth himself admitting he always wanted to be in the Captain's Chair, and this is the closest he's gonna get.
Scene by scene you can tell what episodes and movies of Trek they get their ideas from, from Seth and his pilot Malarkey from BoB flying up to the ship, to the captain's speech in the landing room, to Seth entering his office, to the first time he sits in the chair. The source material is obvious, and it feels cheap. Lazy almost.

Jokes wise, and it being a comedy show so its critical, I wasn't joking with my title. Literally the first joke, which doesn't happen until 5 or 6 minutes in, is a penis joke. Apparently Sergeant Malarkey has spent the centuries since WW2 drawing penises on things you shouldn't draw penises on.
Outside of dick jokes, and the awkward idea of your ex-wife being you 2nd, Orville is too...reverent to Star Trek to actually make fun of it. The jokes are few and far between, and they never have the sting of even a bottom tier Family Guy Star Wars joke.

I feel like Mcfarland and his writers were too afraid to actually properly parody Star Trek, I guess in the hopes they one day get to do an actual Trek TV instead of this cheap fanfic?

The effects were decent.

Overall 5/10

Judging from an interview I saw of him, this might be well, not wrong. Seems he desires to make essentially not a parody, just a more humorous/lighter take.

Personally though, I would probably prefer a movie. Thats what I initially thought it was going to be. I have no desire to watch this as a show on Fox. A movie, or Netflix series, sure...but not Fox TV.

I thought it was decent at being what it was trying to be. Certainly better then what anyone could reasonably expect STD to be at this point given it seems to have become the victim of Murphy's Law in action at every level.

I liked The Orville. The pilot wasn't perfect. I think it does have the elements to be a really good substitute for Star Trek.

I appreciated that they didn't go for a Star Trek parody. It seems more like a human version of Star Trek. While the various Star Trek series were mostly good in their own way. The characters didn't seem all that relatable. The Orville have characters mentioning mundane things like needing to go to the bathroom. I love the scene where the characters were initially unimpressed with the important technology.

So, I am not ready to declare The Orville to be a great show. I think it is going to be a lot better than most people think.

Zontar:
I thought it was decent at being what it was trying to be. Certainly better then what anyone could reasonably expect STD to be at this point given it seems to have become the victim of Murphy's Law in action at every level.

It's not a good sign for your show when you have the same initials as Sexually Transmitted Diseases.

I haven't seen it yet but I think there's some merit to the idea of playing Star Trek as a sitcom. That way you can make jokes about clashing cultures without being unintentionally racist, you see. I'm just not sure if McFarlane is the best guy for the job. I don't think character driven humor is his strength.

I assumed I would hate it and not watch it, but decided to watch the first episode. I'm now on the "maybe" train. I dont think it will be a regular thing, but there was enough potential there that I might make it a regular show.

The problem with humor is that too much of it can kill a tense or dramatic situation. After all, that's the purpose of humor. The whole airing of marital problems with the main bad guy kind of killed the moment. But I guess the show is wanting to go more for comedy than drama anyway, so maybe that's fine for them.

KissingSunlight:

I appreciated that they didn't go for a Star Trek parody. It seems more like a human version of Star Trek.

So it was more Galaxy Quest then?

undeadsuitor:

KissingSunlight:

I appreciated that they didn't go for a Star Trek parody. It seems more like a human version of Star Trek.

So it was more Galaxy Quest then?

Its not even Galaxy Quest levels wit, as that really hit Shatner and the original actors hard. Orville is like Galaxy Quest from the point of view of the Thermians - ie its all real.

KissingSunlight:
I liked The Orville. The pilot wasn't perfect. I think it does have the elements to be a really good substitute for Star Trek.

I appreciated that they didn't go for a Star Trek parody. It seems more like a human version of Star Trek. While the various Star Trek series were mostly good in their own way. The characters didn't seem all that relatable. The Orville have characters mentioning mundane things like needing to go to the bathroom. I love the scene where the characters were initially unimpressed with the important technology.

So, I am not ready to declare The Orville to be a great show. I think it is going to be a lot better than most people think.

I don't think expressing the need to go to the bathroom while talking to your superior officer makes a character more relatable, necessarily. If anything, it's the opposite. This show actually seems a more accurate version of the future with more relaxed protocols. In Star Trek there was a strict authoritarian/military structure to the Federation, which even now seems antiquated.

Blood Brain Barrier:

KissingSunlight:
I liked The Orville. The pilot wasn't perfect. I think it does have the elements to be a really good substitute for Star Trek.

I appreciated that they didn't go for a Star Trek parody. It seems more like a human version of Star Trek. While the various Star Trek series were mostly good in their own way. The characters didn't seem all that relatable. The Orville have characters mentioning mundane things like needing to go to the bathroom. I love the scene where the characters were initially unimpressed with the important technology.

So, I am not ready to declare The Orville to be a great show. I think it is going to be a lot better than most people think.

I don't think expressing the need to go to the bathroom while talking to your superior officer makes a character more relatable, necessarily. If anything, it's the opposite. This show actually seems a more accurate version of the future with more relaxed protocols. In Star Trek there was a strict authoritarian/military structure to the Federation, which even now seems antiquated.

The Federation was born out of the Navy. While not strictly a military vessel (as we all know, it was an exploration vessel), it was a exploration vessel set out by the Starfleet, which is a hybrid of a peacekeeping military humanitarian exploration branch of the Federation.

Why is it antiquated to expect discipline and decorum from your the crew that will not only be your front line of defense if they encounter hostile alien species (like the Borg or the Dominion who attack first), but be your first real diplomats to any new peaceful species they encounter?

ObsidianJones:

Blood Brain Barrier:

KissingSunlight:
I liked The Orville. The pilot wasn't perfect. I think it does have the elements to be a really good substitute for Star Trek.

I appreciated that they didn't go for a Star Trek parody. It seems more like a human version of Star Trek. While the various Star Trek series were mostly good in their own way. The characters didn't seem all that relatable. The Orville have characters mentioning mundane things like needing to go to the bathroom. I love the scene where the characters were initially unimpressed with the important technology.

So, I am not ready to declare The Orville to be a great show. I think it is going to be a lot better than most people think.

I don't think expressing the need to go to the bathroom while talking to your superior officer makes a character more relatable, necessarily. If anything, it's the opposite. This show actually seems a more accurate version of the future with more relaxed protocols. In Star Trek there was a strict authoritarian/military structure to the Federation, which even now seems antiquated.

The Federation was born out of the Navy. While not strictly a military vessel (as we all know, it was an exploration vessel), it was a exploration vessel set out by the Starfleet, which is a hybrid of a peacekeeping military humanitarian exploration branch of the Federation.

Why is it antiquated to expect discipline and decorum from your the crew that will not only be your front line of defense if they encounter hostile alien species (like the Borg or the Dominion who attack first), but be your first real diplomats to any new peaceful species they encounter?

Because of how in the last few decades we have seen a worldwide change of attitudes towards authority. You see it in schools, in work environments, towards police and governments. Things are much more relaxed now. I'm not exactly sure how things are in today's Navy, but I'm pretty sure officers don't behave towards each other in such a stilted way as we see in TNG. Is it not sensible to see that trend continuing in the next few hundred years? And The Orville is set in what, 2500?

Blood Brain Barrier:

Because of how in the last few decades we have seen a worldwide change of attitudes towards authority. You see it in schools, in work environments, towards police and governments. Things are much more relaxed now. I'm not exactly sure how things are in today's Navy, but I'm pretty sure officers don't behave towards each other in such a stilted way as we see in TNG. Is it not sensible to see that trend continuing in the next few hundred years? And The Orville is set in what, 2500?

As civilians, of course we're getting more lax.

But these people on these spaceships when they exist (if we make it that long) will not be civilians. This will not be the crew of the Serenity. These will be men and women representing Earth as Warriors, Scholars, and Diplomats simulatenously. How we are, average citizens, probably not as strict.

But we're talking about a Military Peacekeeping Diplomatic mission. How the average citizen acts will be diametrically different than how a member of that force will be expected to behave.

ObsidianJones:

Blood Brain Barrier:

Because of how in the last few decades we have seen a worldwide change of attitudes towards authority. You see it in schools, in work environments, towards police and governments. Things are much more relaxed now. I'm not exactly sure how things are in today's Navy, but I'm pretty sure officers don't behave towards each other in such a stilted way as we see in TNG. Is it not sensible to see that trend continuing in the next few hundred years? And The Orville is set in what, 2500?

As civilians, of course we're getting more lax.

But these people on these spaceships when they exist (if we make it that long) will not be civilians. This will not be the crew of the Serenity. These will be men and women representing Earth as Warriors, Scholars, and Diplomats simulatenously. How we are, average citizens, probably not as strict.

But we're talking about a Military Peacekeeping Diplomatic mission. How the average citizen acts will be diametrically different than how a member of that force will be expected to behave.

Starfleet is not military in any sense of the word.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/54154/is-starfleet-a-military-or-civilian-organization

Blood Brain Barrier:
Starfleet is not military in any sense of the word.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/54154/is-starfleet-a-military-or-civilian-organization

It actually is. In the very sense of the word.

Military

Definition of military

1 a :of or relating to soldiers, arms, or war military discipline the country's military needs
b :of or relating to armed forces; especially :of or relating to ground or sometimes ground and air forces as opposed to naval forces military and naval affairs
2 a :performed or made by armed forces military operations
b :supported by armed force a military government
3 :of or relating to the army the military academy at West Point

Given that definition, having Warship... I'm sorry, "Tactical Cruisers that were only really designed for combat" such as the Prometheus Class and the Defiant Class makes Starfleet the federation's de facto military. They are the ones issued the ships that can fight battles, they are the ones issued the phasers. They are what the Federation has and who the Federation uses when war breaks out.

They can call them whatever they want, but by definition, they are a military branch. But as I've said many times before, and in the last time you quoted me, their actual position in the Starfleet is a hybrid of military peacekeeping exploring diplomats.

Blood Brain Barrier:

ObsidianJones:

Blood Brain Barrier:

Because of how in the last few decades we have seen a worldwide change of attitudes towards authority. You see it in schools, in work environments, towards police and governments. Things are much more relaxed now. I'm not exactly sure how things are in today's Navy, but I'm pretty sure officers don't behave towards each other in such a stilted way as we see in TNG. Is it not sensible to see that trend continuing in the next few hundred years? And The Orville is set in what, 2500?

As civilians, of course we're getting more lax.

But these people on these spaceships when they exist (if we make it that long) will not be civilians. This will not be the crew of the Serenity. These will be men and women representing Earth as Warriors, Scholars, and Diplomats simulatenously. How we are, average citizens, probably not as strict.

But we're talking about a Military Peacekeeping Diplomatic mission. How the average citizen acts will be diametrically different than how a member of that force will be expected to behave.

Starfleet is not military in any sense of the word.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/54154/is-starfleet-a-military-or-civilian-organization

...Starfleet is military in EVERY sense of the word

Such a waste of Victor Garber.

ObsidianJones:

Blood Brain Barrier:
Starfleet is not military in any sense of the word.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/54154/is-starfleet-a-military-or-civilian-organization

It actually is. In the very sense of the word.

Military

Definition of military

1 a :of or relating to soldiers, arms, or war military discipline the country's military needs
b :of or relating to armed forces; especially :of or relating to ground or sometimes ground and air forces as opposed to naval forces military and naval affairs
2 a :performed or made by armed forces military operations
b :supported by armed force a military government
3 :of or relating to the army the military academy at West Point

Given that definition, having Warship... I'm sorry, "Tactical Cruisers that were only really designed for combat" such as the Prometheus Class and the Defiant Class makes Starfleet the federation's de facto military. They are the ones issued the ships that can fight battles, they are the ones issued the phasers. They are what the Federation has and who the Federation uses when war breaks out.

They can call them whatever they want, but by definition, they are a military branch. But as I've said many times before, and in the last time you quoted me, their actual position in the Starfleet is a hybrid of military peacekeeping exploring diplomats.

By that definition, half of the American population are "military".

For me, it hinges on the aims of the organisation - to explore strange new worlds, to seek out life. Explorers are armed but not all of them seek to invade.

Blood Brain Barrier:

ObsidianJones:

Blood Brain Barrier:
Starfleet is not military in any sense of the word.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/54154/is-starfleet-a-military-or-civilian-organization

It actually is. In the very sense of the word.

Military

Definition of military

1 a :of or relating to soldiers, arms, or war military discipline the country's military needs
b :of or relating to armed forces; especially :of or relating to ground or sometimes ground and air forces as opposed to naval forces military and naval affairs
2 a :performed or made by armed forces military operations
b :supported by armed force a military government
3 :of or relating to the army the military academy at West Point

Given that definition, having Warship... I'm sorry, "Tactical Cruisers that were only really designed for combat" such as the Prometheus Class and the Defiant Class makes Starfleet the federation's de facto military. They are the ones issued the ships that can fight battles, they are the ones issued the phasers. They are what the Federation has and who the Federation uses when war breaks out.

They can call them whatever they want, but by definition, they are a military branch. But as I've said many times before, and in the last time you quoted me, their actual position in the Starfleet is a hybrid of military peacekeeping exploring diplomats.

By that definition, half of the American population are "military".

For me, it hinges on the aims of the organisation - to explore strange new worlds, to seek out life. Explorers are armed but not all of them seek to invade.

Let me know when half of the US population is given warships, advanced weaponry, and the blessing of the World's Government to go around and use that stuff on people.

If you think a military's sole purpose is invasion, then you have a very medieval view of military.

Saelune:

Blood Brain Barrier:

ObsidianJones:

It actually is. In the very sense of the word.

Military

Given that definition, having Warship... I'm sorry, "Tactical Cruisers that were only really designed for combat" such as the Prometheus Class and the Defiant Class makes Starfleet the federation's de facto military. They are the ones issued the ships that can fight battles, they are the ones issued the phasers. They are what the Federation has and who the Federation uses when war breaks out.

They can call them whatever they want, but by definition, they are a military branch. But as I've said many times before, and in the last time you quoted me, their actual position in the Starfleet is a hybrid of military peacekeeping exploring diplomats.

By that definition, half of the American population are "military".

For me, it hinges on the aims of the organisation - to explore strange new worlds, to seek out life. Explorers are armed but not all of them seek to invade.

Let me know when half of the US population is given warships, advanced weaponry, and the blessing of the World's Government to go around and use that stuff on people.

If you think a military's sole purpose is invasion, then you have a very medieval view of military.

And if you think the military's job is to conduct diplomacy, carry out peaceful scientific research and explore in search of new life to expand knowledge of the universe, your definition of the word is vastly overreaching.

Blood Brain Barrier:

Saelune:

Blood Brain Barrier:

By that definition, half of the American population are "military".

For me, it hinges on the aims of the organisation - to explore strange new worlds, to seek out life. Explorers are armed but not all of them seek to invade.

Let me know when half of the US population is given warships, advanced weaponry, and the blessing of the World's Government to go around and use that stuff on people.

If you think a military's sole purpose is invasion, then you have a very medieval view of military.

And if you think the military's job is to conduct diplomacy, carry out peaceful scientific research and explore in search of new life to expand knowledge of the universe, your definition of the word is vastly overreaching.

One of us is far more compatible with the other. The modern military is not just soldiers and those who lead them.

The military are not explorers right now cause...we're past that on Earth. No new lands to discover here. But space? Do you really think the second we find other civilizations in space the military is not going to get involved?

And hell, we had military explorers. Namely the Romans and the Spanish. I hope when faced with space civilizations we wont do as they did, but still.

Starfleet is the fusion of services and programs and organizations, both military and non. They are what they are needed to be.

When Earth was threatened by the Borg, who did they send? Who headed the armada?

When Romulans start showing signs of actions, who is it they call to intercept?

If Starfleet is not 'military' then nothing is because they keep sending their 'non military' to do all the military work.

It is just a matter of what has become the ideals of Earth. Star Trek is an optimist's view of the future, where we dont jump to violent conclusions, where we value science and diplomacy over power, and so the military became more than that. But they do touch on how that could have been different when some time-shenanigans shows what would have happened if the war with the Klingons persisted and they instead forsake science and diplomacy. Was a good episode too, and gave us Sela Yar.

Starfleet is military. It is not a matter of opinion or discussion. Anyone who thinks Starfleet is not military never watched the show.

Blood Brain Barrier:
Is it not sensible to see that trend continuing in the next few hundred years? And The Orville is set in what, 2500?

I'mma say no, it's not sensible to see that continue. That far in the future, we can't know which trends will continue and which ones won't.

I'd give a 6/10 myself.

It's basically 'Seth Does His Humor...IN SPACE'.

I mean, holy shite did they do some 'visual porn' with the long camera shots over the various tech.

Also: Isn't their 'main baddie' basically the Jem'Hadar?

Starfleet is military. It is not a matter of opinion or discussion. Anyone who thinks Starfleet is not military never watched the show.

No they aren't, they are capable of conducting military style duties and the tenants of what we would call military command and infrastructure are present but they are not military. And you're right it isn't a matter of opinion, the show itself, the movies and the creator of the entire concept have ALL stated time and again that Starfleet IS NOT military.

As for The Orville, not sure yet. The trailers for the show showed us the best jokes so their wasn't anything new in the show that struck me as being that funny. It's clear that the show is very much aping Star Trek, the great big fanfare music the long sweeping shots of the ship (no bad thing right enough) the ship is actually quite good looking certainly better than Kelvin Enterprise and STD's Discovery. The big concern just now is that the character base (the bridge crew) is a bit too small and the characters aren't interesting enough to hold contained episode about them, you know like TNG would have an entire episode about Data and Geordie. I am also wondering if he is going to try and build a living universe or weathger we will just have a planet of the week, scenario of the week, that we will never ever hear about again or if their will be a more overarcing story going on, besides his issues with his former wife.

On the flipside the Alien lifeforms were pretty good and a decent mix of non human vs human like aliens. The conclusion to the episode was actually quite original as well.

Laughing Man:

Starfleet is military. It is not a matter of opinion or discussion. Anyone who thinks Starfleet is not military never watched the show.

No they aren't, they are capable of conducting military style duties and the tenants of what we would call military command and infrastructure are present but they are not military. And you're right it isn't a matter of opinion, the show itself, the movies and the creator of the entire concept have ALL stated time and again that Starfleet IS NOT military.

Does it matter what people call themselves? The Rebels in Star Wars call themselves freedom fighters. The Empire calls them Terrorists. Who is right? Well, "Right" depends on your affliction. If you're suffering under the regime of Empire, and the Rebellion just blew up the local base of Operations for the Empire, hell yes you're going to call the Rebels freedom fighters and you're going to support them with everything you got.

If you work for the Empire, a clerical job married to someone who works at that base of Operations on the wrong day... Yes, the Rebel scum are nothing but cowardly terrorists that all need to be stamped out.

By definition? They are both.

Definition of freedom fighter

:a person who takes part in a resistance movement against an oppressive political or social establishment (Source)

terrorist
Someone who uses violence, mayhem, and destruction ? or the threat of those things ? to coerce people or countries into taking a certain action is a terrorist. A terrorist may be motivated by religious fervor, politics, or just plain old-fashioned greed.(Source)

Likewise, Starfleet may not call themselves a military, The Federation may not call Starfleet a Military, but they are trained for war. They are given Tactical Cruisers, phasers, photon torpedoes, self-replicating mines* (DS9 what up?), and they are called on at times when Military strikes from an Agressive Power who are against the Federation.

They are their de facto Military. As well as a peacekeeping exploration diplomat force.

Blood Brain Barrier:
By that definition, half of the American population are "military".

For me, it hinges on the aims of the organisation - to explore strange new worlds, to seek out life. Explorers are armed but not all of them seek to invade.

Saelune already summed up my thoughts, but I thought it was rude to ignore you. No malice between us and all, just differing opinions. So no reason not to be civil.

Half of America's population are not trained by the state, obliged by the state to do acts of aggression or defense at the behest of the state, and definitely not supplied by the state to act in times of aggression, peacekeeping, or defense. We have the Military, the Air Force, The Naxy, and the National Guard for that.

Again, they are the Militant Peacekeeping Diplomat Explorers. They are all these things. They have a primary mission which is indeed exploration, but that doesn't mean they don't have other responsibilities. Chief of which is the militaristic defense of the Federations, it's Allies, and worlds unable to defend themselves. As well as humanization endeavors. As well as punching out Space Gods (Sisko what up?)

*And yes, I know Self replicating mines are not standard issue. But I always found the concept amusing that I wanted to shout it out.

Lets get back on track guys. Whether the Federation is a military with a science department or a science department with a military is, at best, tangential to if Orville is a good series.

So basically a show by Seth McFarlene resorts to crass humour and apes a better show that came before it.

...people expected otherwise?

Queen Michael:

Blood Brain Barrier:
Is it not sensible to see that trend continuing in the next few hundred years? And The Orville is set in what, 2500?

I'mma say no, it's not sensible to see that continue. That far in the future, we can't know which trends will continue and which ones won't.

Of course we can't know. No one claimed that. The whole point of sci-fi is to speculate.

Laughing Man:

Starfleet is military. It is not a matter of opinion or discussion. Anyone who thinks Starfleet is not military never watched the show.

No they aren't, they are capable of conducting military style duties and the tenants of what we would call military command and infrastructure are present but they are not military. And you're right it isn't a matter of opinion, the show itself, the movies and the creator of the entire concept have ALL stated time and again that Starfleet IS NOT military.

As for The Orville, not sure yet. The trailers for the show showed us the best jokes so their wasn't anything new in the show that struck me as being that funny. It's clear that the show is very much aping Star Trek, the great big fanfare music the long sweeping shots of the ship (no bad thing right enough) the ship is actually quite good looking certainly better than Kelvin Enterprise and STD's Discovery. The big concern just now is that the character base (the bridge crew) is a bit too small and the characters aren't interesting enough to hold contained episode about them, you know like TNG would have an entire episode about Data and Geordie. I am also wondering if he is going to try and build a living universe or weathger we will just have a planet of the week, scenario of the week, that we will never ever hear about again or if their will be a more overarcing story going on, besides his issues with his former wife.

On the flipside the Alien lifeforms were pretty good and a decent mix of non human vs human like aliens. The conclusion to the episode was actually quite original as well.

Then there is no military in Star Trek's Federation cause every war and every battle that faced Earth since the Federation was fought by Starfleet.

Blood Brain Barrier:

Queen Michael:

Blood Brain Barrier:
Is it not sensible to see that trend continuing in the next few hundred years? And The Orville is set in what, 2500?

I'mma say no, it's not sensible to see that continue. That far in the future, we can't know which trends will continue and which ones won't.

Of course we can't know. No one claimed that. The whole point of sci-fi is to speculate.

Yeah, but almost 500 years into the future it's not sensible to guess that our trends will continue.

Saelune:
Then there is no military in Star Trek's Federation cause every war and every battle that faced Earth since the Federation was fought by Starfleet.

As a pretty big Star Trek fan I think this is the most accurate thing to say.

The discovery of intelligent life, warp drive and the founding of the federation meant that the concept of military, navy, and NASA all become outmoded. You need a single agency that incorporates:

Defence, science, and diplomacy.

So, they come up with a new overarching agency replacing the previous ones: Starfleet.

I always liked to think that whenever any Federation Starfleet officer says they are "not military" they are avoiding using that word due to the connotations of "aggressive attack" a la the "klingon Empires Military" or "The Romulan Star Empire Navy"

KaraFang:

Saelune:
Then there is no military in Star Trek's Federation cause every war and every battle that faced Earth since the Federation was fought by Starfleet.

As a pretty big Star Trek fan I think this is the most accurate thing to say.

The discovery of intelligent life, warp drive and the founding of the federation meant that the concept of military, navy, and NASA all become outmoded. You need a single agency that incorporates:

Defence, science, and diplomacy.

So, they come up with a new overarching agency replacing the previous ones: Starfleet.

I always liked to think that whenever any Federation Starfleet officer says they are "not military" they are avoiding using that word due to the connotations of "aggressive attack" a la the "klingon Empires Military" or "The Romulan Star Empire Navy"

Yes, all this. A good Starfleet officer doesn't see him or herself as a soldier, not primarily, but serving in Starfleet does sometimes require dispensing the duties of a soldier.

Starfleet clearly came about as an evolution of the Navy. The ranks are similar, the hierarchy is similar, the discipline is similar. I suppose they actually more closely resemble a police force in practice, but they are a descendant of the by then antiquated form of our traditional military.

ObsidianJones:

Laughing Man:

Starfleet is military. It is not a matter of opinion or discussion. Anyone who thinks Starfleet is not military never watched the show.

No they aren't, they are capable of conducting military style duties and the tenants of what we would call military command and infrastructure are present but they are not military. And you're right it isn't a matter of opinion, the show itself, the movies and the creator of the entire concept have ALL stated time and again that Starfleet IS NOT military.

Does it matter what people call themselves? The Rebels in Star Wars call themselves freedom fighters. The Empire calls them Terrorists. Who is right? Well, "Right" depends on your affliction.

In that context it you're right, but let me restate this, Gene Roddenbury the guy who came up with Star Trek said that Starfleet is not a military organisation. It's not a case of YOUR interpretation of what is shown on the shows / movies or how the characters and individuals in the show put themselves across, this is the guy who came up with the series flat out telling us that they are not a military organisation. It's quite simple their isn't any grounds to argue about it.

Laughing Man:
In that context it you're right, but let me restate this, Gene Roddenbury the guy who came up with Star Trek said that Starfleet is not a military organisation. It's not a case of YOUR interpretation of what is shown on the shows / movies or how the characters and individuals in the show put themselves across, this is the guy who came up with the series flat out telling us that they are not a military organisation. It's quite simple their isn't any grounds to argue about it.

Roddenberry claimed that Starfleet was not a military organization but something akin to the Coast Guard. USCG is a branch of the military.

TheVampwizimp:
Yes, all this. A good Starfleet officer doesn't see him or herself as a soldier, not primarily, but serving in Starfleet does sometimes require dispensing the duties of a soldier.

O'Brien certainly saw himself as a soldier. He has been in 235 combat situations and has been decorated 15 times. That's pretty impressive for a soldier, let alone someone who isn't a part of a military organisation.

KaraFang:
I always liked to think that whenever any Federation Starfleet officer says they are "not military" they are avoiding using that word due to the connotations of "aggressive attack" a la the "klingon Empires Military" or "The Romulan Star Empire Navy"

To me, that sounds like calling waterboarding "enhanced interrogation technique" instead of torture. Starfleet fulfills the the same role as those two organisations regardless of their perceived aggressiveness. Is Swiss Army not a military just because they stay out of conflicts in other countries?

Oh, and I forgot to say that there is only one series in which "Starfleet is not military" would fly and that's Enterprise. There already is United Earth Military (of which MACO is a branch) and Starfleet really feels like future NASA or something.

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