Dad uses Facebook to teach daughter a lesson.

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A little bit of an Overreaction much?
15 year old girls and boys moan and complain its a fact of life, and moaning to their friends and peers is the best way for them to let off steam.

As a kid I know I was quite aggresive against inanimate objects such as doors/pieces of furniture when I was angry, but you know what my parents did? They made me repair and replace it all and you know what it worked, I only hit things now at martial arts classes; not to mention I gained a respect for the money I saved to replace said objects, I also became very good at DIY.

Having a good ol' whinge to your friends is nothing that cant be solved by taking away the girl's phone/laptop, gounding her and giving her a good talking to. If she needs to be punished at all.

Not to mention that a gun is not a toy, its a tool albeit a dangerous one and using it for something like this is trivialising it and if not unsafe to others, is at least unsafe to himelf and can only provoke others to do the same.

A gun is a privilege or a necessity, never should it be abused for personal kicks.

TheKasp:

hubert:

I find it creepy when you start talking about symbolism, is the daughter going to be the laptop next time or what?

Whenever you feel you need to use a firearm to parent your kid properly, you're doing it WRONG.

By the way did the dad say that he had two jobs and went to high school and college at the same time at her age? I find that hard to believe..
(I might just have misunderstood)

The destruction of the laptop is a symbolic mean for the fact that things you write and say can have consequences. Be it material loss (like in her case) or that you can upset people (like in her case). Since taking away had no impact because she sat it through without long-term understanding of what she did wrong I can't see what the big fuzz is.

Erm, why would punishment create long-term understanding in your view? I mean, it didn't do it before, why would it do it now? Nothing about punishment is conducive to creating understanding. It is a show of force. The only 'understanding' it creates is that you need to be careful of the people who can wreck stuff.

Owyn_Merrilin:

thethird0611:

Owyn_Merrilin:

http://aconography.blogspot.com/2012/02/parenting-troubled-teen.html

Read this. In fact, everyone who thinks this guy is so wonderful, just read it. It's not a conspiracy theory; this fits a specific profile of abuse.

I read half of it before having to stop because of all the emotional swaying found in that article. Yes, certain images can trigger bad memories in people. Hell, you talk about abuse, I had my father drag me down a flight of stairs by my hair.

But the whole article is 'The daughter DESERVES to be like that because of her age, and the father has no right to correct her (which parents need to do to keep children from thinking they are above their parents), and then punished her by destroying her laptop.

Do you also know that she pulled this stunt before to? He had the talk with her, grounded her, and took away her computer/cell phone/ privileges, and warned her it would get a worse punishment if she did it again.

To both of your posts: it's not a "stunt" if there really is abuse. People. Need. To. Talk. To. Other. People. When. Shit. Like. This. Happens. The profile here is that the dad has fully isolated his daughter, to the point that the last thing she could do was tell a bunch of people on Facebook, likely none of whom she was very close to, what was going on in her life at the time. As for her wanting it to blow over? Well, which is better: continued existence on the mercy of your abuser, or homelessness and/or death without them? Because that's the situation you wind up in. Even if she's 16, and therefore has a shot with CPS, she may see it as worse for her future to go into foster care. Shit like this is /toxic/.

You know, I would continue on here, but there is no reason to. You have it set in your mind that it is, out of NO chance of anything else, her being isolated. You have no open mind to see if shes just doesnt want to speak to people so it'll blow over or anything else. Itll end up like any other discussion on here, mud slinging.

Your trying to make your arguments emotional arguments. What you need to do is look and see there is more evidence toward the thing being said being true, than not. News outlets have to talked to them, CPS and the Police came, she was given a chance to address the situation to everyone, and not in one of those chances have we seen anything remotely wrong?

So im sorry, but im not going to respond anymore because its not good to continue trying to break down a built up belief.

Shawn MacDonald:
Is he an asshole for shooting the laptop, sure. He is also my hero for teaching his self entitled bitch of a daughter a lesson.

FUCK YEAH

Finally a parent who is actually doing some parenting....

mellemhund:

Did you miss the part where he has grounded her several times? Or where he's talking about her not having a laptop until college? He never hit her you say - looking at his anger I say it's matter of time. He's not setting firm boundaries. He's retaliating like a fool when his anger is worked up. instead of handling it when it happens.

And so what if she badmouthed her parents? that's normal and only because her dad snooped around her facebook (which she apparently had blocked him from) did he find out? What if she had written it in a diary or he had heard her tell a friend over the phone?
If you claim you never had any bad things to say about your parents, growing up, I have to call you out as a liar.

All I see in the video is a fail parent and a hoard of fail-parents in waiting cheering him on. And people still don't see why the kids aren't getting raised alright. The capacity for human stupidity is apparently endless.

OOOHHHH! Children being Grounding and no expensive-gadgets! Someone get this girl a Human Right's lawyer. Wait till the UN hears![/sarc]

First World Problems.

I guarantee there are kids in her school who don't have any expensive personal gadgets nor free time and it's not because of poverty, it is because they don't have a rich parent to dote over them.

She's not even 16 yet, she has no right to leave her home without her parents permission. It is a privilege to NOT be grounded! I needed permission and REASON to ever leave my home outside school hours and I was often refused, even if not grounded. I wasn't allowed my own computer till higher education! Badmouthing will get privileges removed.

This is not a private diary where people are able to collect their private thoughts, this is a public post badmouthing her parents behind her back just after they had doted over her. Diary comparison is very inaccurate.

I have not PUBLICLY spouted such spiel against my parents, only cursed them under my breath in moments of childish frustration that soon passes. I am eternally grateful for all they have done for me.

"looking at his anger I say it's matter of time (before he hits her)"

Nice assumptions.

He is not overcome by rage, he very patiently and rationally explains his action, he is not suddenly lashing out. He has never indicated any direct violence against her, it seems people who are just alien to firearms are overreacting because "OOOOH! Guns are evil!" if he'd driven over it no one would say he planned to kill her in a hit and run.

Mortai Gravesend:

thethird0611:

Mortai Gravesend:

He will be able to monitor anything she says. Suppose she dissents. How do you think he will react? With flowers? Or maybe punishing her? Or at best maybe it will simply earn her no good will when what she's going to want most at this point is for this whole thing to go away and for her to get a new laptop or whatever. The last way to achieve that is via dissent.

It's not a conspiracy theory to point out that she's not going to want to piss him off. Where the fuck is the conspiracy element in that? I'm saying that she won't feel like she can speak freely. Which is pretty bloody obvious to anyone who stopped to think about it for a second.

If she reacts maturely, its pretty obvious in his speech that he would be ok with it. If she starts acting childish, well theres not much more he can punish her with.

*facepalm* Or maybe if you actually thought for a microsecond you would realize that if we can see her being childish so can her dad. And yes, there is more he can punish her with. Like continuing to keep her grounded. Or who knows what else, more chores.

You know whats funny? She actually DOES want this whole thing to blow over. Thats why shes staying out of it and speaking some through her father. Go read the post that he put on facebook before you reply with this again. Just so we are on level ground.

You keep trying to point at what she says for proof that she is being honest about it. Anyone with half a brain ought to realize that pointing me at something I just pointed out was trustworthy is the height of stupidity.

And you know, if something was wrong, CPS would of picked it up, or she could speak through one of her friends, or she could do a MILLION things. This is viral now, and trying to keep information from the public is near impossible. Hell, he cant even leave his phone on and his email is full.

*facepalm* Hey dude. Can you read? Right now do it. Go and try and read my posts and see where I said anything about abuse. Oh hey I didn't. Are you trying to bring down my IQ with your posts because it sure feels like it.

Oh, and to say is pretty obvious is only trying to bring your point up while trying to bring my point down. I could say, 'its bloody obvious shes fine if anyone would stop and think about it', but that would discredit intelligent thinking. Yes, there always is a chance, but there is more evidence toward the side of 'shes fine' then to 'shes being mistreated'

Your entire post has already been a disservice to intelligent thinking. I didn't say anything about mistreatment I've just been saying that if she doesn't like what he did she has no way to say it freely without him seeing and perhaps applying consequences.

And because your entire reply there was trying to be insulting and down trodden to someones words, I bow out of this discussion. (Well, that's the low IQ level, stupid thinking, half a brain would say right?)

Owyn_Merrilin:

JaceArveduin:

Owyn_Merrilin:




There we go, I've divided the spoilers up and put tags on them, so maybe now people will read it!

yeah... I don't believe they'll read it, TLDR and all.

I've already read all of this, and I don't see her reaction anywhere in that spoiler; just what her father says is her reaction. All I'm trying to say here is you can't take the word of an abuser that they are not abusing their child: they lie about things like that, you see.

If that's abuse, then I've been through a whole hell of a lot more than she has. But fine, you have a point, it's from his point of view, seeing as it's hard for her to respond due to, you know, being grounded. And if he was lying, he put a ton of detail into it. He also did mention that she was pissed over it for a while.

*shrug* guess I'm just a desensitized bastard.

thethird0611:

Mortai Gravesend:

thethird0611:

If she reacts maturely, its pretty obvious in his speech that he would be ok with it. If she starts acting childish, well theres not much more he can punish her with.

*facepalm* Or maybe if you actually thought for a microsecond you would realize that if we can see her being childish so can her dad. And yes, there is more he can punish her with. Like continuing to keep her grounded. Or who knows what else, more chores.

You know whats funny? She actually DOES want this whole thing to blow over. Thats why shes staying out of it and speaking some through her father. Go read the post that he put on facebook before you reply with this again. Just so we are on level ground.

You keep trying to point at what she says for proof that she is being honest about it. Anyone with half a brain ought to realize that pointing me at something I just pointed out was trustworthy is the height of stupidity.

And you know, if something was wrong, CPS would of picked it up, or she could speak through one of her friends, or she could do a MILLION things. This is viral now, and trying to keep information from the public is near impossible. Hell, he cant even leave his phone on and his email is full.

*facepalm* Hey dude. Can you read? Right now do it. Go and try and read my posts and see where I said anything about abuse. Oh hey I didn't. Are you trying to bring down my IQ with your posts because it sure feels like it.

Oh, and to say is pretty obvious is only trying to bring your point up while trying to bring my point down. I could say, 'its bloody obvious shes fine if anyone would stop and think about it', but that would discredit intelligent thinking. Yes, there always is a chance, but there is more evidence toward the side of 'shes fine' then to 'shes being mistreated'

Your entire post has already been a disservice to intelligent thinking. I didn't say anything about mistreatment I've just been saying that if she doesn't like what he did she has no way to say it freely without him seeing and perhaps applying consequences.

And because your entire reply there was trying to be insulting and down trodden to someones words, I bow out of this discussion. (Well, that's the low IQ level, stupid thinking, half a brain would say right?)

Well that's a rather blatant way to avoid admitting that your argument was stupid since I didn't in fact say anything about mistreatment or abuse. Nothing but a cop out on your part. But go on, I can't make you face the fact that you were mostly arguing against something I didn't actually say.

JaceArveduin:

Owyn_Merrilin:

JaceArveduin:

There we go, I've divided the spoilers up and put tags on them, so maybe now people will read it!

yeah... I don't believe they'll read it, TLDR and all.

I've already read all of this, and I don't see her reaction anywhere in that spoiler; just what her father says is her reaction. All I'm trying to say here is you can't take the word of an abuser that they are not abusing their child: they lie about things like that, you see.

If that's abuse, then I've been through a whole hell of a lot more than she has. But fine, you have a point, it's from his point of view, seeing as it's hard for her to respond due to, you know, being grounded. And if he was lying, he put a ton of detail into it. He also did mention that she was pissed over it for a while.

*shrug* guess I'm just a desensitized bastard.

Well yes she can relay things through him, but do you really think she'd relay her actual opinion if it's a negative one? He punished her for posting something that he was never supposed to see that he found insulting. Why wouldn't he be displeased if she continued to voice her support of that opinion? And she would know that he probably wouldn't be too happy if she didn't appear to 'reform'.

In this topic: People let there views on gun politics sway their opinions on parenting

Full disclosure, I am a Canadian who loves him some guns, I have been a shooter for almost my entire life. I have yet to have to discharge a firearm in self defence, my only kills have been game animals, and inanimate targets. I strongly oppose gun control methods that serve only to penalize law abiding citizens for the crimes of miscreants and thugs.

I see this in this father a reasonable, everyday person who does not tolerate being played a fool. He directly states that he and his daughter had a similar altercation beforehand, in regards to her being an entitled brat on Facebook. What she said on Facebook is just as important as things said anywhere else, applying the idea that because the internet moves quickly and forgets easily is a farce, the things said will exist forever, and her petty misgivings about her hard-knock-life of mild chores and easy living are now ensconced eternally within the great halls of google; The internet never forgets, it moves on.

This father must feel betrayed, having already gone through this scenario once before, and dealing with it on a level that is both appropriate and merciful to the daughter, he once again is shown what an entitled daughter he has.

His reaction was expected, I would have acted in a similar way. It is understood that there are indeed better ways to deal with the laptop, donating to a charity would be a noble thing, allowing for the less fortunate to prosper from this would have been wonderful; the father not doing this, out of choice or not considering his options does not damn him, it makes him human.

His choice in disposing of the laptop, by firing a magazine of .45 bullets into it, is in no way unacceptable, It was his choice. The grief that has arisen from his apparent anger when destroying the laptop is folly, anyone can be angry, that is not a crime, that does not kill people, that does not become a statistic. Anger is an emotion, we all have it and anybody who would preach that his actions were detestable is guilty of their own faults, so leave the soap box at home. He was calm and rational while angry, and he discharged his firearm in a way that is perfectly safe to those around him, and not worthy of the fierce hullabaloo that it has been met with, he shot a laptop, not his daughter; only a person who is unstable (certainly to the point of not being permitted a firearm where I am from) would not be able to see that his destruction of the laptop will not escalate to premeditated murder.

He shot a laptop, in a safe and controlled environment, the only thing that I fault him for is not wearing the proper hearing and eye protection.

[/soapbox]

Mortai Gravesend:

thethird0611:

Mortai Gravesend:

*facepalm* Or maybe if you actually thought for a microsecond you would realize that if we can see her being childish so can her dad. And yes, there is more he can punish her with. Like continuing to keep her grounded. Or who knows what else, more chores.

You keep trying to point at what she says for proof that she is being honest about it. Anyone with half a brain ought to realize that pointing me at something I just pointed out was trustworthy is the height of stupidity.

*facepalm* Hey dude. Can you read? Right now do it. Go and try and read my posts and see where I said anything about abuse. Oh hey I didn't. Are you trying to bring down my IQ with your posts because it sure feels like it.

Your entire post has already been a disservice to intelligent thinking. I didn't say anything about mistreatment I've just been saying that if she doesn't like what he did she has no way to say it freely without him seeing and perhaps applying consequences.

And because your entire reply there was trying to be insulting and down trodden to someones words, I bow out of this discussion. (Well, that's the low IQ level, stupid thinking, half a brain would say right?)

Well that's a rather blatant way to avoid admitting that your argument was stupid since I didn't in fact say anything about mistreatment or abuse. Nothing but a cop out on your part. But go on, I can't make you face the fact that you were mostly arguing against something I didn't actually say.

No, thats a rather blatant way of saying 'Im not going to be in a be discussion where insults are being thrown at me. If I argued a wrong point, bring THAT up, not your insults. Thats how discussions work. But, with seeing your attitude about it, Id rather not discuss anything with you.

thethird0611:

Mortai Gravesend:

thethird0611:

And because your entire reply there was trying to be insulting and down trodden to someones words, I bow out of this discussion. (Well, that's the low IQ level, stupid thinking, half a brain would say right?)

Well that's a rather blatant way to avoid admitting that your argument was stupid since I didn't in fact say anything about mistreatment or abuse. Nothing but a cop out on your part. But go on, I can't make you face the fact that you were mostly arguing against something I didn't actually say.

No, thats a rather blatant way of saying 'Im not going to be in a be discussion where insults are being thrown at me. If I argued a wrong point, bring THAT up, not your insults. Thats how discussions work. But, with seeing your attitude about it, Id rather not discuss anything with you.

I did bring up that you argued a wrong point. You're failing to acknowledge it. Maybe I'd be nicer about it if you'd taken the trouble to actual think a bit before posting and notice that I wasn't the one talking about abuse, instead of giving some knee jerk response to someone else posting the idea that the father may be abusive.

The thing i find quite frightening is that Not many people commented on her little "Cleaning lady" part. To be fair, not as many people would be bitching if he used say, a hammer. She IS a spoilt girl, the dad went slightly OTT, but i can see where he is coming from.

MikeStyles27:

I see this in this father a reasonable, everyday person who does not tolerate being played a fool. He directly states that he and his daughter had a similar altercation beforehand, in regards to her being an entitled brat on Facebook. What she said on Facebook is just as important as things said anywhere else, applying the idea that because the internet moves quickly and forgets easily is a farce, the things said will exist forever, and her petty misgivings about her hard-knock-life of mild chores and easy living are now ensconced eternally within the great halls of google; The internet never forgets, it moves on.

And if someone complains to their friends that is somehow supposedly worthy of punishment? If we give it the same importance as things said elsewhere I rather think that it doesn't deserve punishment exactly. It was a harmless rant said to friends.

His reaction was expected, I would have acted in a similar way. It is understood that there are indeed better ways to deal with the laptop, donating to a charity would be a noble thing, allowing for the less fortunate to prosper from this would have been wonderful; the father not doing this, out of choice or not considering his options does not damn him, it makes him human.

His choice in disposing of the laptop, by firing a magazine of .45 bullets into it, is in no way unacceptable, It was his choice. The grief that has arisen from his apparent anger when destroying the laptop is folly, anyone can be angry, that is not a crime, that does not kill people, that does not become a statistic. Anger is an emotion, we all have it and anybody who would preach that his actions were detestable is guilty of their own faults, so leave the soap box at home. He was calm and rational while angry, and he discharged his firearm in a way that is perfectly safe to those around him, and not worthy of the fierce hullabaloo that it has been met with, he shot a laptop, not his daughter; only a person who is unstable (certainly to the point of not being permitted a firearm where I am from) would not be able to see that his destruction of the laptop will not escalate to premeditated murder.

He shot a laptop, in a safe and controlled environment, the only thing that I fault him for is not wearing the proper hearing and eye protection.

Okay and what is she supposed to learn from the destruction of the laptop really? That if she disagrees she'd better shut up or else he's gonna do something about it? Is there anything about the punishment that serves to make her believe she was in the wrong, or is it simply a punishment meant to take some kind of vengeance on her? A show of force doesn't seem like the type of thing to convince someone they were wrong.

Mortai Gravesend:

Well yes she can relay things through him, but do you really think she'd relay her actual opinion if it's a negative one? He punished her for posting something that he was never supposed to see that he found insulting. Why wouldn't he be displeased if she continued to voice her support of that opinion? And she would know that he probably wouldn't be too happy if she didn't appear to 'reform'.

True, of course, the whole point of this was to get a point across to all of her friends who thought doing something similar is a good idea. The fact it went viral is collateral. And you have to admit, he's got some morals, otherwise he'd be on news shows making tons of cash, he basically told them to fuck off. I did send it to my mom though, and her and Mike (stepdad) enjoyed it.

now if he were a SMART dad, he would of taken the lap top to a micro-center, or other tech store, and sold the laptop as used, make a little money back . . . but that's now where near as cool as unloading a 45 into it, that man is awesome and a good parent.

Mortai Gravesend:

thethird0611:

Mortai Gravesend:

Well that's a rather blatant way to avoid admitting that your argument was stupid since I didn't in fact say anything about mistreatment or abuse. Nothing but a cop out on your part. But go on, I can't make you face the fact that you were mostly arguing against something I didn't actually say.

No, thats a rather blatant way of saying 'Im not going to be in a be discussion where insults are being thrown at me. If I argued a wrong point, bring THAT up, not your insults. Thats how discussions work. But, with seeing your attitude about it, Id rather not discuss anything with you.

I did bring up that you argued a wrong point. You're failing to acknowledge it. Maybe I'd be nicer about it if you'd taken the trouble to actual think a bit before posting and notice that I wasn't the one talking about abuse, instead of giving some knee jerk response to someone else posting the idea that the father may be abusive.

So now your insulting is my fault? Ok, let me bring up a joke from famous comedian Christopher Titus.

-Titus - "You stabbed me!"
-Girlfriend - "Well, what did you do to get stabbed?"
-Titus - "I.. I... The door was locked"
-Girlfriend - "Well, if you would of had your keys, you wouldnt of got stabbed."
-Titus - "Ohhhh, it is my fault. Bad bad bad."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PViekUP0vo4

Something for the OT (Not for Mortai):
Regulation of guns because of the safe use of them to destroy a target isn't very viable I think. Im just glad in the video he said "I... I wanted to but a bullet right in that computer", instead of anything else.

thethird0611:

Mortai Gravesend:

thethird0611:

No, thats a rather blatant way of saying 'Im not going to be in a be discussion where insults are being thrown at me. If I argued a wrong point, bring THAT up, not your insults. Thats how discussions work. But, with seeing your attitude about it, Id rather not discuss anything with you.

I did bring up that you argued a wrong point. You're failing to acknowledge it. Maybe I'd be nicer about it if you'd taken the trouble to actual think a bit before posting and notice that I wasn't the one talking about abuse, instead of giving some knee jerk response to someone else posting the idea that the father may be abusive.

So now your insulting is my fault? Ok, let me bring up a joke from famous comedian Christopher Titus.

-Titus - "You stabbed me!"
-Girlfriend - "Well, what did you do to get stabbed?"
-Titus - "I.. I... The door was locked"
-Girlfriend - "Well, if you would of had your keys, you wouldnt of got stabbed."
-Titus - "Ohhhh, it is my fault. Bad bad bad."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PViekUP0vo4

Not a particularly applicable joke. Stabbing is not an appropriate response to such a mistake. Being a tad disparaging of your argument is quite warranted when clearly little thought was put into it.

senordesol:
Second, why does the fact that the weapon being a 'lethal tool' have any bearing whatsoever? I've shot paper targets, soda cans, and beer bottles with firearms; what makes a laptop any different? He selected his target area so that there would be no collateral damage and chose his ammunition for same.

This. A gun is a tool that propels pieces of metal at high velocities. Nothing less, nothing more. The way some people talk, you'd think it was an artifact of infinite evil that gives everyone in a five mile radius AIDS.

A man destroyed a laptop that he legally owned. No one was put at risk here. There really has to be something better to worry about.

V8 Ninja:
In a way, I'm actually not really offended by this or think of this is bad. Now, I think shooting the laptop was a little unnecessary (and didn't contain enough awesome to be completely worth the X amount of dollars that was spent on it), but I do think the man's stance is a solid one; parents (usually) do a lot more for their kids than the kids realize and they (usually) aren't nearly as bad as their kids make them out to be. Early in high-school I realized that my parents do a lot more than I give them credit for and I became much more forgiving and kind to them.

a agree with this man. He has a Adam west Avatar. You must listen to him.

Mortai Gravesend:

thethird0611:

Mortai Gravesend:

I did bring up that you argued a wrong point. You're failing to acknowledge it. Maybe I'd be nicer about it if you'd taken the trouble to actual think a bit before posting and notice that I wasn't the one talking about abuse, instead of giving some knee jerk response to someone else posting the idea that the father may be abusive.

So now your insulting is my fault? Ok, let me bring up a joke from famous comedian Christopher Titus.

-Titus - "You stabbed me!"
-Girlfriend - "Well, what did you do to get stabbed?"
-Titus - "I.. I... The door was locked"
-Girlfriend - "Well, if you would of had your keys, you wouldnt of got stabbed."
-Titus - "Ohhhh, it is my fault. Bad bad bad."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PViekUP0vo4

Not a particularly applicable joke. Stabbing is not an appropriate response to such a mistake. Being a tad disparaging of your argument is quite warranted when clearly little thought was put into it.

In fact, it's not applicable at all in defending someone accused of abuse: "you made me do it" is pretty much the go-to excuse to get people to stick around in an abusive relationship, as in "I'm sorry I stabbed you, but you made me do it. If you hadn't left your keys at home, I wouldn't have stabbed you for knocking on the door."

I feel that he had every right to shoot the laptop and I don't judge him for it.

First off even the list of chores she puts in her facebook post before the father corrects her is laughable. Hell, when I spend the summers at my parents I do everything on that list aside from shoveling manure on a semi daily basis and my family doesn't have anyone else to come around and help clean. I knew that as hard as the chores I did seemed my parents worked twice as hard in order to pay for all of the stuff I took for granted. I never got paid for my chores nor did I expect to because I knew that the money got back to me in one way or another. Her asking to be paid for that list when she has been given a laptop and $130 upgrades is sick and disrespectful. I didn't have a laptop until I was 18 and heading off to college and I paid for $400 of it with the money I made from the job I got when I was 16. Sure I complained about the chores sometimes, especially when I was still getting used to having to balance school, my job, my responsibilities, and my social life but I never would have even thought about badmouthing my parents like that.

The use of a firearm for this purpose does not trouble me at all. Maybe that is because I have grown up around guns and shoot targets whenever I get the chance as does half my family. I don't know about where all of you people are from but there are places where a rifle or pistol is considered as much of a tool as a hammer or axe, albeit one that you treat with a lot more caution or respect. He obviously knew how to use it safely. He seemed to have planned this out in advance so it wasn't a hot blooded act. Sure he was angry but he wasn't enraged.

hubert:

By the way did the dad say that he had two jobs and went to high school and college at the same time at her age? I find that hard to believe..
(I might just have misunderstood)

I really think "went to college" meant taking one or two college level courses which is allowed and even encouraged at some universities. That would make it relatively easy to balance. School every weekday till it let out. Have a job monday wednesday friday after school, take a course that meets tuesday thursday, and then have another job for the weekend. Not really all that hard to believe. I have friends who had similar schedules.

Ramzal:

usmarine4160:
Actually it is a right in America and that's not going to be changed so you're wrong ;)

Though I agree it was wrong to use a .45 like I said in the other thread. A 12 gauge with buckshot would've been about 20% cooler

Rights should be either taken away or made more strict when abused by an individual. When someone boycotts someone's funeral, they should be sued for disturbing the peace and harassment, when someone unloads an entire clip into a computer for the sake of being angry they should lose their right to use a firearm due to displaying little to no discipline with the tool.

I'm not wrong since our rights have been violated anyway, as our right to a fair trial when under arrest has been revoked anyway. (Which I do no see any positive outcome from and I do not support.) A gun is not a plaything or a toy. I'm not sure if you a trolling or you are honestly that deluded.

Edit: Besides, the law states that American's have the right to bare arms. Not to discharge them under any circumstance.

A gun is yours to do whatever the hell you want with it as long as you aren't infringing on anyone else's rights. A chainsaw is a tool but if you don't want to cut wood with it and would rather tear around your yard pretending you're in Army of Darkness that's your prerogative. He used his gun as a tool to teach his daughter a lesson, he didn't brandish it at anyone or shoot anyone and the laptop was his to destroy.

While it's them who bought it I don't approve parents destroying their kids stuff as punishment, confiscate for unspecified period of time yes, destroy no.

Also I have one much more bigger problem with this. It could be treated as threatening with firearm. It might seem a stretch, but look:
She badmouthed on facebook, he shot her laptop and what next ?? Is he going to shoot her next time they get in an argument ?? Personally i would feel threatened. People who know the law there better,how would police react is she said that her father is shooting her stuff and she's scared.

If father is to be believed they got over it relatively well and such things aren't the case, but think about that for a while.

The gun was a bit too far... and I hope he doesn't stalk his daughters Facebook. Other then that though I agree with him and his daughter is an idiot and an attention seeker. Why would she bother writing a letter to her parents after purposely blocking them.

Rtoip:
While it's them who bought it I don't approve parents destroying their kids stuff as punishment, confiscate for unspecified period of time yes, destroy no.

I think its good incentive to buy things myself. If I own the object then I don't let my parents take it. They normally agree with me.

Mortai Gravesend:
Okay and what is she supposed to learn from the destruction of the laptop really? That if she disagrees she'd better shut up or else he's gonna do something about it? Is there anything about the punishment that serves to make her believe she was in the wrong, or is it simply a punishment meant to take some kind of vengeance on her? A show of force doesn't seem like the type of thing to convince someone they were wrong.

The point of parenting is not to brainwash your kids. Yes, you want them to make good choices in life, but for the most part it's enough of a struggle just to prevent them doing utterly stupid things until they're ready to strike out on their own.

I certainly know that at that age, nothing my parents could do would convince me I was wrong, since I knew everything. They just kept me in check and as I matured, I saw that perhaps yes, there was a little wisdom inherent in what they had to say.

Here's the thing: children and teenagers are not adults. You can't always just have a calm, rational conversation where you logically prove to them the error of your ways. Hell, you can't do that with most adults.

Trippy Turtle:
The gun was a bit too far... and I hope he doesn't stalk his daughters Facebook. Other then that though I agree with him and his daughter is an idiot and an attention seeker. Why would she bother writing a letter to her parents after purposely blocking them.

Rtoip:
While it's them who bought it I don't approve parents destroying their kids stuff as punishment, confiscate for unspecified period of time yes, destroy no.

I think its good incentive to buy things myself. If I own the object then I don't let my parents take it. They normally agree with me.

Point of order: she's 15, which is a year too young to legally work in the U.S.. They also live in a rural area, which means she'd need access to a car to get to work -- something that is impossible to drive on one's own until the age of 16, and also impossible for a teenager to buy for themselves unless they've had the opportunity to work for a long time (especially if it's a part time job at $7 something an hour). It really sounds like he's keeping her on a leash by forcing her to ask him for anything she wants to buy, and telling her to get a job (a task that will be impossible until /at least/ her 16th birthday) any time she complains about it.

Sentox6:

Mortai Gravesend:
Okay and what is she supposed to learn from the destruction of the laptop really? That if she disagrees she'd better shut up or else he's gonna do something about it? Is there anything about the punishment that serves to make her believe she was in the wrong, or is it simply a punishment meant to take some kind of vengeance on her? A show of force doesn't seem like the type of thing to convince someone they were wrong.

The point of parenting is not to brainwash your kids. Yes, you want them to make good choices in life, but for the most part it's enough of a struggle just to prevent them doing utterly stupid things until they're ready to strike out on their own.

I certainly know that at that age, nothing my parents could do would convince me I was wrong, since I knew everything. They just kept me in check and as I matured, I saw that perhaps yes, there was a little wisdom inherent in what they had to say.

Here's the thing: children and teenagers are not adults. You can't always just have a calm, rational conversation where you logically prove to them the error of your ways. Hell, you can't do that with most adults.

And then what is the point of punishing her then in a case where what she does is not something that is going to kill her or hurt someone? I don't see how she needs to be kept in check when it's just ranting to her friends. Maybe point out that he in fact found out so she knows not to be stupid and think it's secure. But I don't see much point in punishing her if you don't expect her to realize it was wrong or anything unless what she was doing was harmful in some manner.

Also, convincing people that what they did was wrong is not brainwashing, sorry to tell you.

Stalydan:
I'm not annoyed that he overreacted to a Facebook post. I'm not annoyed that he obviously invaded her privacy by going onto her browser, loading up Facebook and looking at her posts because he doesn't trust her. I'm annoyed that he's got such issues that he's not facing.

The chores that she lists aren't normal chores for a teenager. I can't think of many teenagers who are asked to spread manure across their gardens or asked to run a mop or brush through their house everyday when they come in. I suspect that the fertiliser is like a couple of times a year, otherwise it's weird that she'd be doing it regularly into late winter. But the cleaning the floors thing sounds weird if they have a cleaning lady. He says she's not a cleaning lady but he just says she's a lady that comes in and clean their house. Well that's a cleaning lady. If the thing he says after that clarifies something, I don't know what it is because his accent was way too strong for me to understand then. But yeah, they're a cleaning lady. It's like saying "Just because that guy bakes doesn't mean they're baker". It clearly does.

On to the bigger points. He's spoilt her. He obviously has. He just spent $130 on her upgrading her laptop. Which he then goes and shoots, a clear misuse of a gun, and then expects money off her for both the upgrade and the bullets he just wasted. Rather than donating it like a previous poster says, he just lets off some steam by destroying a perfectly functioning laptop.

He also complains she doesn't have a job. If he wants her to get one, why hasn't he forced her into getting one like "You either get a job or I'm not letting you have your phone and laptop"? It's obvious he even thinks of her as a materialist because that's all he takes away from her. Objects. Nothing like saying "You're grounded, you can't go see your friends". That speaks volumes about her.

He also says "Why should I pay you for chores?". Well if he's going to ask her to do this sort of stuff then... yeah. Pay her. Give her ten dollars a week. Why? Because if the rewards she's being given are upgrades to laptops, she's being spoilt. However, if she's given the money and then later does it herself, she'll feel like she's earned something. Nothing feels like a better reward than buying something yourself that you saved up for. I don't know how to explain it but it just is.

The worst thing about this is the video is sadistic to the core. He's hurt that she posts something on Facebook about him and his wife but here's the thing. Nobody pays attention to Facebook. It might be the talk for about a week tops but then it's gone. Dusted over, never to be heard from again. Sure, I'd be angry if somebody posted hurtful stuff about me on the internet but it's not as widespread as people think. Who cares about one 15 year old girl annoyed with her chores? It's so pointless. But rather than talking to her about it, he prints off her post, reads it aloud in a video and shoots her laptop about ten times and expects money for damages. He then says he's going to post it to her wall where she won't be able to see it but all her friends will. So not only does he know it's going to hurt her when she finds out what he's done to her stuff but it'll also embarrass her at her school when other people find out. It's wrong on some many levels, I'd be tempted to call it abuse if went one or two steps further.

tl;dr This girl will now grow up to resent her father because he blew his fuse at something so minor rather than talking it out.

I'm not sure if this was pointed out yet, but he didn't invade her privacy at all.

The family has a facebook account for their dog, which they use to upload and tag pictures of their dog. Well one day when he went to upload another picture of their dog, he saw her post on the dogs wall right up front. she vblocked her parents, but neglected to block the dogs account. The father literally stumbled across it.

heres a link

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.348000-Dad-Takes-Umbrage-With-Daughters-Facebook-Insubordination-Shoots-Her-Laptop

Owyn_Merrilin:

Trippy Turtle:
The gun was a bit too far... and I hope he doesn't stalk his daughters Facebook. Other then that though I agree with him and his daughter is an idiot and an attention seeker. Why would she bother writing a letter to her parents after purposely blocking them.

Rtoip:
While it's them who bought it I don't approve parents destroying their kids stuff as punishment, confiscate for unspecified period of time yes, destroy no.

I think its good incentive to buy things myself. If I own the object then I don't let my parents take it. They normally agree with me.

Point of order: she's 15, which is a year too young to legally work in the U.S.. They also live in a rural area, which means she'd need access to a car to get to work -- something that is impossible to drive on one's own until the age of 16, and also impossible for a teenager to buy for themselves unless they've had the opportunity to work for a long time (especially if it's a part time job at $7 something an hour). It really sounds like he's keeping her on a leash by forcing her to ask him for anything she wants to buy, and telling her to get a job (a task that will be impossible until /at least/ her 16th birthday) any time she complains about it.

I'm 16 and I have managed without a job. If I need cash then I wait until a birthday or I do jobs for my auntie at her house. Besides she is old enough to work if she is applying for a job like her dad said she did.

I think the father had every right to do this. Personally, I can't stand it when kids complain about all the chores they have to do and bad-mouth their parents who do nothing but give and give every day of their lives. You don't get paid for being a parent. She, a young brat, shouldn't get paid for doing a few measly chores around the house.

Kids of today are spoiled (or at least most of them are). They're disrespectful, and expect the world to be handed to them on a silver platter. This man should go around to the houses of these snot-nosed brats and empty his gun into their laptops, computers, xboxs, 360s, etc etc.

Hell, that's a job I'd pay anyone to do.

Ramzal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kl1ujzRidmU

I have already posted about this. So I will just take what I posted and put it here:

What is wrong with you people? This man just put 9 rounds into a stationary object because he was angry. Let me repeat myself; This man just unloaded a -gun- into a computer because he was angry. He has every right to punish his daughter, but this shows complete and total lack of control and discipline over himself by using a firearm to teach a lesson.

He lost count in how many bullets fired at that, because of his anger! And people support this? A gun is not a toy, it's a tool. A last resort and used to protect, not destroy. I've seen comments on this saying "An all American dad!" Are you people crazy or just plan stupid? Comments like that is exactly why our country is looked down on as gun tooting/war hungry morons! His entire point goes out the window when he shows how childish (Retaliating to her internet post--it's an internet post for crying out loud) with the use of a gun.

And people say the young are stupid.

I once believed that a gun should be a right, however after seeing how he used his firearm and people's encouragement of his action, I now believe that having a gun should be treated as a privilege instead of a right. I am an American, and I DO NOT agree with this man's methods of use of a firearm, nor raising a child.

Edit: However, chores are fine. Go chores.

Oh be still your bleeding liberal heart. Are you kidding me? You talk about a gun like a fantasy character talks about a summoned demon. Like if you turn your back on it it will suddenly develop free will and wipe out a preschool. He sat in an open field on what was likely his own land, delivered a matter of fact speech and then destroyed his daughter's laptop. There was no "anger" beyond anyhing any other parent would feel and he never once even raised his voice.

Lets be honest here. If he had tripoded the camera and pulled an office space with a baseball bat, you would have probably hada chuckle and gone about your business. It wouldn't even have been post worthy. But since guns scare you, you have this compulsion to jump into a tirade about his horrible misuse of a firearm and throw a Fox news spin on it about how he used a gun to disipline his child in "anger". To someone that hadn't seen the video, it might almost sound like she was holding or using it when he shot it.

Just because some people are a bit more progressively open minded does not mean we are "crazy" or "stupid" as you so eloquently put it. It means that some people may have grown up with or have enough experience with firearms and that we aren't scared of them like some big brother knows best, we dont need guns if we have police and guns are the problem bleeding heart liberal coming in trying to over sensationalize to get post views.

He is the father, she is his daughter.
If that is his chosen punishment then there is nothing wrong with it.
She was rude, arogant and did not appreciate what she had, he had every right to do what he did

mellemhund:
I don't think I can argue this with you. The man is stumbling over words because of the adrenaline he got running from acting out his revenge on a daughter he feels slighted him in public. Then he goes theatrical (yay, more great parenting there) and destroys something. whether it would be don't with hammer, hands or guns is irrelevant it a violent action.

Here's a thought -- it's possible that, like millions of people, the man has a slight stutter. It's also possible that, in trying to get his message across on camera in a single "take," he's a bit nervous. Oh, but no, only your interpretation of the emotional state of everyone involved should be considered, right?

This destruction of property is not "violent." Now, if he were smashing something of hers in front of her in an effort to scare her? Yes, that would be an act of violence. But you can see, if you watch, that she is not present. He isn't yelling or stomping or pounding his chest. He is very calm in his presentation. And, above all, he is destroying HIS OWN PROPERTY.

Dastardly:

Or so said a textbook somewhere once.

Maybe you should have a closer look at them books some times. Educated people tend to make better decisions on the matters.

I would know, being one of those educated people. As a professional educator, I'm well-studied in learning, motivation, and discipline in children. My specialty area, in fact, is middle school (ages 11 to, often, 15). Even with my knowledge and experience, I don't believe there is any call for prescriptive parenting. I believe that there are a multitude of correct ways to parent, and we need only respond to the destructive ways.

What he is doing does not damage (or seek to damage his child) in any way. Nowhere does he demonstrate an unsafe or unloving home environment. In fact, he demonstrates a clear interest in her betterment as a person. He targets the undesirable behavior directly, makes the punishment "fit the crime," and explains his reasoning very clearly.

The only criticism that could be levied at this man, from my perspective, is that he did this all publicly. But even that is a weak criticism. Sure, it'll embarrass her, but that's clearly survivable. It'll serve to make the message clearer. Furthermore, it will serve to ensure the friends she was venting to also share in this -- she will have fewer "allies" who have only heard her side of the story. That makes it harder for her to find the hollow validation that young adults use to perpetuate their flawed world views.

Dastardly:

1. Spanking isn't about "teaching them not to be violent."

Letting you reach the hot iron and hitting a kid is 2 completely different things. When kids grow up with violence being an accepted response, they will become more prone to violence. No matter what the intentions of the parents is![/quote]

Only in a vacuum. In the absence of any other influence, kids that get spanked might grow to believe "hitting solves problems." But that only occurs in negligent homes, and I think it's pretty clear that, in those homes, the damage is already being done by that negligence.

I didn't have any trouble as a child separating, "My parents can spank me for disobeying" from "I'm not allowed to hit people, because I'm a child." Why? Because my parents made that distinction clear.

The vehement "anti-spanking" advocates base their interpretation of research on the idea that "spanking parents" only spank, always spank, and never explain. Are there abusive parents out there? Yes. Plenty that hit, and plenty that don't, too. Just like with guns, the extremists love to think that because a small group misuse something, no one can be trusted.

Dastardly:
So only dictators can raise kids in your POV? the moment you have to resort to threats with kids, you have failed. Firm boundaries are about being a parent from the start and not just waking up to it, when the kids get old enough to form opinions of their own. Instead of threats you have mutual understanding, buts that takes actually talking to your kids and explaining the situation. It's just so much easier to just go "because I'm right" and that's what the fail-parents do.'

The problem is that you like to use the word "threat" because you feel it proves your point. All a "threat" is, when you boil it down, is telling someone the consequence for disobedience. If you could convince a kid to never, ever disobey, we wouldn't need rules at all.

If you say, "You stayed out past our agreed curfew. You can't go out tomorrow. If you do it again, you'll lose those privileges for a week," guess what you just did? You threatened your child! They pushed the boundary you set (as every single child in existence ever will do at some point) and you reinforced that boundary with a clear consequence that you've spelled out in advance. A "threat," if you will.

Also, regarding the "because I'm right," that's an inevitable fact of real parenting, not theoretical book parenting. There are cases where a child won't truly understand the reason behind a rule. And there are many, many cases in which they simply won't believe you. Why? Because, unlike you, they haven't seen the bad things happen. You can explain until your face melts off, but children (who, historically, aren't known as the most logical or reasonable creatures) will sometimes argue simply because they don't like your conclusion. So you can choose to "discuss" it for eternity... or, sometimes, you put your foot down, declare, "Because!," and trust that (just like with yourself) experience will eventually show them what you're trying to tell them.

Only theoretical-parents deal in the kind of absolutes you're throwing out here.

Dastardly:
1. If she doesn't do her choirs, then he is clearly not confronting her with it when that happens, since he is now set up in a chair outside somewhere and he has had to premeditate this whole "I'll show her" seance. Can we agree on that?

This situation isn't about whether or not she does her chores. It's never clearly spelled out whether she has or not. The issue at hand is that she is using her father's laptop to badmouth her household (with boldfaced lies) behind their backs. That is something she was already punished for in the past, and this was the "next time you do it" consequence.

2. If she does them, but complains to her friends about it. then who is he to get upset about it? That reaction is exactly the vengeful bad parent that I would wish on no kid.

He is her father. He is the guy that pays all of her bills and is responsible for her upbringing. If she was just saying, "Man, I really hate these chores. These chores suck. I wish I didn't have to do these chores," I could agree with you. Instead, she:

1. Directly insulted her parents, calling them "lazy" and several other names.
2. Insulted a friend of the family, treating her like hired help.
3. Claimed to be assigned chores that, as we learned in the video, actually weren't assigned -- she was just trying to make the situation look worse with lies.
4. Grossly overstated her responsibilities and understated her current privileges.

Basically, she spouted insults and lies, and demonstrated a gross misunderstanding of how her home (and her place in it) actually works. That kind of misunderstanding is exactly the kind of thing that parents are SUPPOSED to fix. You'll notice the father did it without insults or lies, too.

If you think broadcasting a theatrical revenge on your kids is parenting, then I hope you neither have nor will ever have any kids. Parents who get their methods from the worst dictators is not fit to be parents.

Do yourself a favor and don't have children. I fear that, if you do, you'll discover that they aren't robots programmed with Asimov's Three Laws, giving them perfectly predictable behaviors. When people in your situation discover that children are actually miniature individuals, who may (for reasons you don't understand) go completely against your best-laid plans, they actually turn into some of the most emotionally (and even physical) abusive parents, out of severe disillusionment and frustration. I wouldn't wish that potential future on any child.

Your entire "case" is built upon using the words "violence," "threat," and "revenge" for shock value. The words do not apply to this situation.

It seems to me like both parties weren't being rational in this situation. The girl was behaving with a false sense of entitlement with beliefs blown out of proportion. She believed herself to be a slave when she was really just doing simple chores around the house, most of which are fairly common chores.

That being said, the father, in his anger, really didn't think his actions through. He destroyed a laptop which he could have sold to make the money back and still teach her a lesson at the same time. And then he puts the bill for damages that HE caused onto his daughter, as if it is somehow her fault that he shot the laptop.

Both parties also have poor communications skills, as they apparently can only talk about their problems over the internet to a bunch of strangers. An earlier post about how they yelled at each other suggests that they really don't know how to talk to each other while keeping a level head.

Not really sure where people are getting the idea that one of them is in the right and the other is in the wrong.

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