Teen faces expulsion after brining stun-gun to school to fend off bullies

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Leadfinger:

Sandytimeman:

Leadfinger:
I agree. The issue was the homophobic school board, but by bringing the stun-gun to school, the victim unfortunately made it a bringing a weapon to school issue.

If he had just balled up on the ground and was lucky enough to survive they could have totally blown that whole "homophobic school board" thing wide open!

Though if he woke up from the coma, or had use of his legs, or lived to actually crawl away from a 6 on 1 beating motivated by homophobia and hate then I'm sure it all could have been resolved peaceably.

That's sarcasm btw, everyone of those six kids should be punished in the harshest criminal manner.

So you think bringing an illegal weapon to school was the best solution?

A stun gun is about as non-lethal as you can get. All weapons are forbidden on this school ground and the administrators were just willing to let the beatings happen. He had no choice but to defend himself.

Helmholtz Watson:

senordesol:

Would dressing differently have truly changed anything? The cat was already 'out of the bag' as it were. Do you think the bullies were acting more like fashion police than bigots?

Perhaps, because it was what the principle suggested.

The same Principal who has been doing oh-so-much to put a stop to this, of course.

EDIT: I forgot, the difference between a 'principal' and a 'principle' is that the 'prinipal' is your 'pal' [and has no principles].

I just took a look, this kids black. He should've said the principal and the bullies called him the N word. That would've gotton people like Sharpton and Jackson coming down on this school and the bullies like a fat guy on a burger.

Sandytimeman:

hermes200:
He brought a weapon to the school. I am sorry for his ordeal, but that hyperbolic response could have ended a lot worst than a sanction from the school.

And I wonder what the reply would have been had it turned into another Matthew Shepard incident. It isnt all that hard to kill someone with bare hands and a few well placed blows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

It isnt all that hard to kill someone in any way. Even by accident. And those violent situations tend to escalate rather quickly, as proven by this case. After he pulls a weapon, someone could easily have been killed (and I don't know how many people would go "they had it coming" or "its all the teachers fault" then)...

That is what I meant with "a lot worst". I am not in favor of all the "turn the other cheek" crap, but escalating the incident by pulling a weapon is not a solution either.

This is bullshit on quite a few different levels.
Realy the rules about this sort of thing are way out of sync.
Good on the kid for taking the initative to not taser as many people as he could into the ground and scare them off instead.
He should get out of this easily enough though I cant be too sure really.

Helmholtz Watson:

senordesol:

Would dressing differently have truly changed anything? The cat was already 'out of the bag' as it were. Do you think the bullies were acting more like fashion police than bigots?

Perhaps, because it was what the principle suggested.

Sandytimeman:

Again his mom sent him to school with a generally non-lethal deterant. She was doing the best she could for her son. And believe me not "dressing homosexually" isn't going to stop people from bullying you once they have you targeted.

Personally the kid probably should keep that with him. Last kid in my area that was publicly known to be gay got beaten severely dragged to a field and tied to a barb wire fence to die of exposure. By two Christians no less. Source

And overall this just highlights why I haven't publicly come out, because again this country would rather encourage bullying and let kids get pushed to the physical and psychological extremes of lashing out instead of helping them.

Again, when you bring a weapon to school(I don't care if its lethal or not) you are no longer just the victim. As for letting the kid continue to bring a weapon to school in the future, you...must...be...joking.

You solution then would be for this kid to be beaten to death by his classmates, then be forgotten just as quickly to someone inact the changes to his school board? Give me a break the government, the school, and the "church" arn't going to stop this kid from dying so what option does he have? Homeschool which would require his parent to quit her job or cut her hours, or transfer to the next or the next or the next who all do the same thing.

this country is deadly hostile to homosexuals and homosexuals should have the right to protect themselves with equal force. imo

senordesol:

An Indiana mother who sent her gay son to school with a stun gun after administrators apparently didn't do enough to stop the bullying against him said she would do it again -- even though the teen now faces expulsion.

"I do not promote violence -- not at all -- but what is a parent to do when she has done everything that she felt she was supposed to do ... at the school?" the mother, Chelisa Grimes, told CNN's Don Lemon on Sunday. "I did feel like there was nothing else left for me to do, but protect my child."...

...After six other students surrounded him at school on April 16, calling him names and threatening to beat him up, Young pulled the stun gun from his backpack. He raised it in the air, setting off an electric charge, and sending the group scurrying, Young said.

Unlike a Taser, which fire barbs attached to long wires at a target, a stun gun has to be near or pressed against a person to shock them.

It's hard for me to feel anything but sympathy for this kid. It's truly heartbreaking when you seek protection through 'proper channels', but are forced to take matters into your own hands.

...what? The kid's mom gave him the stungun, with only the claim that "administrators...didn't do enough to stop the bullying." I'm willing to guess that there are stops you can take before "Arm your child," because that shit will get him (predictably) arrested.

lacktheknack:
Why not?

This is a civilian short-range non-Taser stun gun. It's basically a powerful portable Van-de-Graf generator, something that we played with one physics class with teacher's consent. The shocks hurt, but are NOWHERE NEAR deadly, unless you have a barely-functioning heart and get hit in the upper-torso all while Lady Luck frowns a frown of death. It's as safe as self-defense measures GET. When you have six people blocking you into a corner and threatening to pummel you into oblivion, it's all well and good to talk semantics, options, and how the school SHOULD be intervening, and how people SHOULDN'T bully others... as you get pummeled into oblivion. Good luck reaching a phone to call police (who won't come and attend a schoolyard standoff anyhow).

Right...here's the thing: a stungun isn't that simple. If it were, it'd be a useless piece of crap. Even disregarding the potential consequences for someone who has even a minor heart condition (not all that uncommon), I can't even begin to count the ways this could go wrong.

Shock someone and...what's supposed to happen? If the stungun works properly, it'll cause uncontrolled muscle spasms. I sure hope the victim doesn't, say, fall over. Because hitting your head on the way down will probably be a lot more lethal than that little stungun. Or maybe you'll bite your tongue when your jaw seizes up. Because you're a child and not the intended target of a stungun.

lacktheknack:
And what are the "other answers"? That's a slap in the face to anyone who was unable to stop bullies as children. I faced bullies as well, and I don't know how you did it, but the only thing that permanently stopped a bully before I outgrew them all was when I grabbed a big stick and threatened to bash his head in with it. Don't like that? DEAL WITH IT, IT WORKED BETTER THAN ANY OTHER METHOD. I tried all the others I could think of.

Great plan, Einstein. That's how you deal with bullying: threaten to brutally murder the bully. I'm sure that you'll look like the victim when you, a bigger kid, are brandishing a stick and threatening to crack his skull open.

Oh, wait. That almost makes it sound like you stopped your bullying by becoming no better than a bully yourself. Oops.

lacktheknack:
And quite frankly, "threatening to mildly injure" is a much better "solution" than your proposed "switch schools" or "threaten with greater injury" (a common effect of self-defense training), and some of your other ones simply won't work. De-escalation requires the other person to be somewhat reasonable, walking with friends requires friends, evasion requires speed, standing down requires cowardly bullies, NONE OF WHICH I had to work with.

Except that self-defense training is something you acquire for yourself. It isn't a plastic rectangle that can be taken from you and used by the very people you intimidated with it. See the potential problem with that? Because then you have not just a bully, but an armed bully with a low-voltage cattle prod who's pissed at you for threatening him.

lacktheknack:
I LAUD this kid for having the balls to make motions of fighting back,

...great. Brandishing a weapon now constitutes, "Having the balls to...[fight] back."

lacktheknack:
as well as having the brains to fire a warning shot first.

Jesus Christ. You're not helping the situation by constantly talking about it as though it's an actual gun.

lacktheknack:
I laud the mother for actually using the full extent of her power (up to arming her kid with a non-fatal stun-gun) as far as she needed to to make a goddamned difference.

Yeah. Real mother-of-the-year material. Putting her son in a situation where the school has literally no choice but to regard him as a threat worth calling in the police for. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and instead of doing any number of things that could've helped him, she did one of the few that predictably got him arrested.

Ultratwinkie:
What kind of gated community white bread police do YOU have? In the REAL world the cops don't come until after the fact. Some schoolyard threat of a fight is NOT going to get them off their ass. EVER.

AMERICAN POLICE DO NOT COME UNTIL SOMEONE IS DEAD, DYING, OR HAS DRUGS. PERIOD.

Kids bully others all the time, and the only time anything is done is AFTER the fact and ONLY in extreme circumstances. This is what the school system does. They talk tough but they are useless for anything other than a "talking to." No consequence, no actual help. It only serves to make the matter worse.

Oh, police only show up if there are drugs or corpses?

Funny thing about that: I don't recall either of those in this story.

Regnes:
The media is already involved, they won't expel him, damage control is the school board's priority, they need to save face. The story isn't about a kid bringing a stun gun to school, the story is about schools not doing their jobs.

Yes, but it's also about not giving the less-than-savory message to bullied kids across the nation, "Don't feel down: just take a weapon into school and threaten your way to happiness!"

Look at this shit:

"I got kicked out of school for me bringing the weapon to school, but I honestly don't think that that was fair," Young said. "I didn't use it on nobody ... all I did was raise it up in the air and went back to my class."

Fucking wow. As bad as I feel for the kid and his situation, this makes him look unbelievably stupid. It's like he's saying, "I brandished by gun in the bank, but I didn't use it on anyone and just made a regular deposit. I don't get why the police showed up."

You were brandishing a weapon in a school. Of course you're going to get arrested.

Regnes:
He's already won because the principal has admitted to asking him to not dress in a homosexual manner

The wording of the article was "...school staff had been trying to get him to "tone down" his accessories." And no, it's not because he was dressing "in a homosexual manner." He was wearing women's clothing. It's cases like this that perpetuate the bizarre idea that if someone is gay, they're compelled to dress like the opposite gender.

Change the kids school and don't let the kid tell everyone he is gay, if he wants to tell everyone ask him if he wants a repeat of last time, which he wont. So no one will make fun of him for being a homosexual problem solved.

hermes200:

Sandytimeman:

hermes200:
He brought a weapon to the school. I am sorry for his ordeal, but that hyperbolic response could have ended a lot worst than a sanction from the school.

And I wonder what the reply would have been had it turned into another Matthew Shepard incident. It isnt all that hard to kill someone with bare hands and a few well placed blows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

It isnt all that hard to kill someone in any way. Even by accident. And those violent situations tend to escalate rather quickly, as proven by this case. After he pulls a weapon, someone could easily have been killed (and I don't know how many people would go "they had it coming" or "its all the teachers fault" then)...

That is what I meant with "a lot worst". I am not in favor of all the "turn the other cheek" crap, but escalating the incident by pulling a weapon is not a solution either.

What is the solution then. How do you get out of that 6 on 1 circle beating without any "escalating" of the situation?

Sandytimeman:

this country is deadly hostile to homosexuals and homosexuals should have the right to protect themselves with equal force. imo

Alright, i'll bite.

How is one kid with a tazer going to fend off a gang of bullies?

Worst case scenario, after he tazes one, the other five get fucking pissed that their bro just got tazed, so they hold him down , screaming and crying as they torture and taze the fuck out of him.

The bullies where under no real threat here. This kid could have easily got himself into a world of hurt.

Edit: Nice mental image, huh?

verdant monkai:
Change the kids school and don't let the kid tell everyone he is gay, if he wants to tell everyone ask him if he wants a repeat of last time, which he wont. So no one will make fun of him for being a homosexual problem solved.

No, problem NOT fucking solved. 'Run and hide?' that's your solution? Live in fear everyday that a slip of the tongue might condemn him to a beatdown and -what?- change schools again?

Sandytimeman:

hermes200:

Sandytimeman:
And I wonder what the reply would have been had it turned into another Matthew Shepard incident. It isnt all that hard to kill someone with bare hands and a few well placed blows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

It isnt all that hard to kill someone in any way. Even by accident. And those violent situations tend to escalate rather quickly, as proven by this case. After he pulls a weapon, someone could easily have been killed (and I don't know how many people would go "they had it coming" or "its all the teachers fault" then)...

That is what I meant with "a lot worst". I am not in favor of all the "turn the other cheek" crap, but escalating the incident by pulling a weapon is not a solution either.

What is the solution then. How do you get out of that 6 on 1 circle beating without any "escalating" of the situation?

Fire, and lots of it.

Seriously, I said he should have played the race card against the bullies and the school.

Devoneaux:

Sandytimeman:

this country is deadly hostile to homosexuals and homosexuals should have the right to protect themselves with equal force. imo

Alright, i'll bite.

How is one kid with a tazer going to fend off a gang of bullies?

Worst case scenario, after he tazes one, the other five get fucking pissed that their bro just got tazed, so they hold him down , screaming and crying as they torture and taze the fuck out of him.

The bullies where under no real threat here. This kid could have easily got himself into a world of hurt.

Edit: Nice mental image, huh?

Are you saying he was not already set up for a world of hurt in the first place?

senordesol:

verdant monkai:
Change the kids school and don't let the kid tell everyone he is gay, if he wants to tell everyone ask him if he wants a repeat of last time, which he wont. So no one will make fun of him for being a homosexual problem solved.

No, problem NOT fucking solved. 'Run and hide?' that's your solution? Live in fear everyday that a slip of the tongue might condemn him to a beatdown and -what?- change schools again?

yes, yes exactly. Because life isn't a damn movie. The bad guy does NOT ALWAYS GET WHAT IS COMING TO HIM.

Helmholtz Watson:
I guess my concern is that the kid brought a weapon to school, which in my eyes crosses the line from victim to bully, because who's to say that the kid won't "accidentally" taze somebody who is giving him a hard time?

The school should intervene in that scenario, though I personally wouldn't trust them to given their previous history. Which is sort of the problem. This is an extreme action, but the intent was pretty clear. He was surrounded by six people and didn't actually use the stungun on anyone. That's remarkably clear thinking for a teenager surrounded by six people, because it's a fight he likely would have lost had it actually happened, stun gun or not.

I'd much rather have someone bring a stun gun to school than to, as you've posted articles showing examples of, feel that murder/suicide is their only option.

senordesol:

Devoneaux:

Sandytimeman:

this country is deadly hostile to homosexuals and homosexuals should have the right to protect themselves with equal force. imo

Alright, i'll bite.

How is one kid with a tazer going to fend off a gang of bullies?

Worst case scenario, after he tazes one, the other five get fucking pissed that their bro just got tazed, so they hold him down , screaming and crying as they torture and taze the fuck out of him.

The bullies where under no real threat here. This kid could have easily got himself into a world of hurt.

Edit: Nice mental image, huh?

Are you saying he was not already set up for a world of hurt in the first place?

what i'm saying is that the tazer does NOT solve the problem. it makes it worse.

Man am I glad I went through school before all of the school shooting rules started being implemented (and you'll notice none of said rules have affected the rate or severity of school shootings). I packed a goddamn combat knife every day of high school, and it defused situations for me in much the same way the stun gun did for this gay kid. I say he did nothing wrong, the mother did nothing wrong, and the school only did wrong in threatening to enforce their idiotic rules that only serve to provide a paper-thin illusion of security to people who don't go to their schools on a daily fucking basis.

Policy changes will never end bullying. Increasing the ratio of faculty to students might help, but application of funding is too lopsided.

Sandytimeman:

You solution then would be for this kid to be beaten to death by his classmates, then be forgotten just as quickly to someone inact the changes to his school board? Give me a break the government, the school, and the "church" arn't going to stop this kid from dying so what option does he have? Homeschool which would require his parent to quit her job or cut her hours, or transfer to the next or the next or the next who all do the same thing.

this country is deadly hostile to homosexuals and homosexuals should have the right to protect themselves with equal force. imo

Look at the incidences I linked, one of those showed what can happen when a person is tazed and the other were examples of people who felt that it was reasonable to bring a weapon to school because they were having a hard time there. Nobody is saying that the kid doesn't have a right to defend himself, but bringing a weapon to school is not, and should not be tolerated.

Devoneaux:

Sandytimeman:

this country is deadly hostile to homosexuals and homosexuals should have the right to protect themselves with equal force. imo

Alright, i'll bite.

How is one kid with a tazer going to fend off a gang of bullies?

Worst case scenario, after he tazes one, the other five get fucking pissed that their bro just got tazed, so they hold him down , screaming and crying as they torture and taze the fuck out of him.

The bullies where under no real threat here. This kid could have easily got himself into a world of hurt.

Edit: Nice mental image, huh?

No threat? Really because all these were obviously caused by the subjects carrying weapons

http://www.thegrio.com/top-stories/chicago-police-increase-security-after-a-deadly-high-school-beating.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2011/08/18406/

all of those stories tell me that armed or not, if your homosexaual or you've been singled out in a school or public. You need to go armed. Otherwise you'll just be another passing blog story.

Stun gun? Bitch, please.

I've been stabbed twice, dealt a serious concussion, and threatened with all manner of weapons and dealt with mob beatdowns. And my problems were minor compared to the bullshit I hear about today.

A good friend of mine who moved away from his school in the UK because he was shot just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He watched his friend get blown away right in front of him (went into witness protection for a while).

Gang mentalities and bullying obviously exist in schools, but what the school is to do?
Most schools cover it up or ignore it to avoid looking bad due to the conventional wisdom that an over-active disciplinary system is a system that doesn't work. If there aren't many kids in detention or such, then obviously their school is a "nice, safe learning environment".

At least, until some kid gets hurt, crippled or goes and offs them-self.

On one hand, their current methods of discipline are completely useless; assholes do not care at all what sort of punishment they're dealt (up until juvenile detention, maybe).

For the most part talking, counseling and diplomacy does NOT work. There's not a whole lot the school can do to threaten or punish the kid. Expulsion? Most bullies don't want to be in school to start with. Unfortunately, a lot of them aren't all that scared of Juvenile Detention until they actually get there, and meet other bigger psychos.

On the other hand, their hands are essentially tied. The school, legally, can't get too deeply involved either, and the only sort of "discipline" that works the bully issue out isn't permitted.

Dags90:

Helmholtz Watson:
I guess my concern is that the kid brought a weapon to school, which in my eyes crosses the line from victim to bully, because who's to say that the kid won't "accidentally" taze somebody who is giving him a hard time?

The school should intervene in that scenario, though I personally wouldn't trust them to given their previous history. Which is sort of the problem. This is an extreme action, but the intent was pretty clear. He was surrounded by six people and didn't actually use the stungun on anyone. That's remarkably clear thinking for a teenager surrounded by six people, because it's a fight he likely would have lost had it actually happened, stun gun or not.

I'd much rather have someone bring a stun gun to school than to, as you've posted articles showing examples of, feel that murder/suicide is their only option.

And I much rather that the no weapons are brought to school because somebody who has nothing to do with the situation my accidentally get hurt.

Helmholtz Watson:
Again, the kid went to far when he brought a weapon to school. If were talking about last ditch efforts, the kid should have dressed differently because when deciding whether or not to bring a weapon to school or moderate how you dress, the latter is obviously the more reasonable choice.

Saying that he should change himself to avoid bullies is NOT reasonable. First of all, you are assuming the bullying would stop - That's likely not to be the case, especially since they already knew he was gay. Here in Denmark, we have problems with anti-gay gangs luring gay men out on a supposed blind date and then beating them up. When bullying is related to things such as sexual orientation or similar, it's VERY unlikely to stop.

Secondly, the only ting that is reasonable is that the perpetrators get the punishment, not the victim. We shouldn't compromise with behavior like that EVER! Hell, the US went to war because they wouldn't compromise with terrorists. Why the hell should victims compromise with bullies? What's next, should rape victims compromise with rapists and "not have worn revealing clothes"? :o)

As for the whole "weapons" discussion, people seem to forget that we carry weapons on us at all times. They're called fists, and they are, in fact, more lethal thjan a civilian stun gun. "6 bullies" can be classified as a much more dangerous weapon than a non-lethal civilian stun-gun (not to mention the fact that finding an improvised weapon is also relatively easy) - and therefore using a non-lethal weapon as a response to a situation that is potentially very lethal is not inappropriate at all, especially since he didn't use it but only threatened to scare them away. He handled this by the book aka. very appropriately.

Sandytimeman:

Devoneaux:

Sandytimeman:

this country is deadly hostile to homosexuals and homosexuals should have the right to protect themselves with equal force. imo

Alright, i'll bite.

How is one kid with a tazer going to fend off a gang of bullies?

Worst case scenario, after he tazes one, the other five get fucking pissed that their bro just got tazed, so they hold him down , screaming and crying as they torture and taze the fuck out of him.

The bullies where under no real threat here. This kid could have easily got himself into a world of hurt.

Edit: Nice mental image, huh?

No threat? Really because all these were obviously caused by the subjects carrying weapons

http://www.thegrio.com/top-stories/chicago-police-increase-security-after-a-deadly-high-school-beating.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2011/08/18406/

all of those stories tell me that armed or not, if your homosexaual or you've been singled out in a school or public. You need to go armed. Otherwise you'll just be another passing blog story.

You are entirely missing the point. The tazer would have only made things worse. There was no possible good outcome from it being brought into things. You bring a weapon and tell the bullies to back off? Great, now you've just wounded their pride, making things even worse for you, giving them a reason to find you, wait for your gaurd to go down and then beat you, torture you, and possibly kill you. I really cannot possibly emphasis this enough, so i'll hold down shift button and try:THREATENING YOUR BULLIES WITH A WEAPON DOES NOT MAKE THE PROBLEM GO AWAY!

RaikuFA:

Fire, and lots of it.

Seriously, I said he should have played the race card against the bullies and the school.

Helmholtz Watson:
Look at the incidences I linked, one of those showed what can happen when a person is tazed and the other were examples of people who felt that it was reasonable to bring a weapon to school because they were having a hard time there. Nobody is saying that the kid doesn't have a right to defend himself, but bringing a weapon to school is not, and should not be tolerated.

But neither of you are explaining how he was going to walk away from that circle 6 on 1 beating if he hadn't of been armed. Please I am waiting for the solution on how you get out of that situation.

omega 616:
snip

Doesn't matter. If I am a layer hired by the criminal's family, I will use ANYTHING to get you to pay a huge sum of money.

For example, the Taurus Judge. It's a firearm. But when it came out people were afraid of using it for self defense because of the name. As a lawyer, I could imply you bought the gun because you wanted to be the "jury, judge and executioner".

Or imagine you used a taser. Imagine the dude you defended yourself from claimed that the shock caused him nerve damages and now he's faking spasms. Even if they get an independent clinic to perform tests and everything your time and money is being spent in court.

By the way, lethal weapons stop a threat by, well, killing them or at least causing massive damage - that doesn't always happen with a firearm, or any kind of weapon.

Now, imagine you used a less-lethal weapon. If the guy was on drugs you would have a hard time getting him to stop with a firearm, let alone with pepper spray or a taser. Remember the LA riots? A black dude on drugs was tased and he was still up and beating on the cops, so they had to get their battons and beat the shit out of him until he stopped.

Dags90:
The obvious solution to all of this bullying is to loosen gun regulations. People will think twice about picking on someone if they think they're packing heat!

Sincerely, the NRA.

P.S. Buy more guns.

That post is full of ignorance.

The NRA only cares about hunting and doesn't give an absolute FUCK about gun owners. They support any politician with (R) next to their name, even if they sign a new Assault Weapons Ban.

Sandytimeman:
A stun gun is about as non-lethal as you can get. All weapons are forbidden on this school ground and the administrators were just willing to let the beatings happen. He had no choice but to defend himself.

I think that since 2006 stun guns have killed about 300 people.

Shit happens. They are called "less-lethal" for a reason. Because they still kill.

Sandytimeman:

hermes200:

Sandytimeman:
And I wonder what the reply would have been had it turned into another Matthew Shepard incident. It isnt all that hard to kill someone with bare hands and a few well placed blows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

It isnt all that hard to kill someone in any way. Even by accident. And those violent situations tend to escalate rather quickly, as proven by this case. After he pulls a weapon, someone could easily have been killed (and I don't know how many people would go "they had it coming" or "its all the teachers fault" then)...

That is what I meant with "a lot worst". I am not in favor of all the "turn the other cheek" crap, but escalating the incident by pulling a weapon is not a solution either.

What is the solution then. How do you get out of that 6 on 1 circle beating without any "escalating" of the situation?

If I had a simple answer to that, most likely I would be lying. And yet I can't use the defense of "this could have ended up badly with a few well placed blows", and ignore the fact that, once he pulled a weapon, it could have ended up even worst, much easier...

Sandytimeman:

Leadfinger:

Sandytimeman:

If he had just balled up on the ground and was lucky enough to survive they could have totally blown that whole "homophobic school board" thing wide open!

Though if he woke up from the coma, or had use of his legs, or lived to actually crawl away from a 6 on 1 beating motivated by homophobia and hate then I'm sure it all could have been resolved peaceably.

That's sarcasm btw, everyone of those six kids should be punished in the harshest criminal manner.

So you think bringing an illegal weapon to school was the best solution?

A stun gun is about as non-lethal as you can get. All weapons are forbidden on this school ground and the administrators were just willing to let the beatings happen. He had no choice but to defend himself.

Allow me to rephrase-The only options you are able to perceive in this situation are to allow oneself to be beaten, or to brandish a forbidden weapon at school?

Athinira:

Helmholtz Watson:
Again, the kid went to far when he brought a weapon to school. If were talking about last ditch efforts, the kid should have dressed differently because when deciding whether or not to bring a weapon to school or moderate how you dress, the latter is obviously the more reasonable choice.

Saying that he should change himself to avoid bullies is NOT reasonable. First of all, you are assuming the bullying would stop - That's likely not to be the case, especially since they already knew he was gay. Here in Denmark, we have problems with anti-gay gangs luring gay men out on a supposed blind date and then beating them up. When bullying is related to things such as sexual orientation or similar, it's VERY unlikely to stop.

Secondly, the only ting that is reasonable is that the perpetrators get the punishment, not the victim. We shouldn't compromise with behavior like that EVER! Hell, the US went to war because they wouldn't compromise with terrorists. Why the hell should victims compromise with bullies? What's next, should rape victims compromise with rapists and "not have worn revealing clothes"? :o)

As for the whole "weapons" discussion, people seem to forget that we carry weapons on us at all times. They're called fists, and they are, in fact, more lethal thjan a civilian stun gun. "6 bullies" can be classified as a much more dangerous weapon than a non-lethal civilian stun-gun (not to mention the fact that finding an improvised weapon is also relatively easy) - and therefore using a non-lethal weapon as a response to a situation that is potentially very lethal is not inappropriate at all, especially since he didn't use it but only threatened to scare them away. He handled this by the book aka. very appropriately.

And here in the US we have enough people shooting up schools as is, we don't need to give people more justification to bring weapons to school. As I said before, I sympathized with the kid until I found out he brought a weapon to school

Sandytimeman:

RaikuFA:

Fire, and lots of it.

Seriously, I said he should have played the race card against the bullies and the school.

Helmholtz Watson:
Look at the incidences I linked, one of those showed what can happen when a person is tazed and the other were examples of people who felt that it was reasonable to bring a weapon to school because they were having a hard time there. Nobody is saying that the kid doesn't have a right to defend himself, but bringing a weapon to school is not, and should not be tolerated.

But neither of you are explaining how he was going to walk away from that circle 6 on 1 beating if he hadn't of been armed. Please I am waiting for the solution on how you get out of that situation.

No, I have nothing. Sorry. Mayabe if he screamed. Even if it was something like gun.

Sandytimeman:

RaikuFA:

Fire, and lots of it.

Seriously, I said he should have played the race card against the bullies and the school.

Helmholtz Watson:
Look at the incidences I linked, one of those showed what can happen when a person is tazed and the other were examples of people who felt that it was reasonable to bring a weapon to school because they were having a hard time there. Nobody is saying that the kid doesn't have a right to defend himself, but bringing a weapon to school is not, and should not be tolerated.

But neither of you are explaining how he was going to walk away from that circle 6 on 1 beating if he hadn't of been armed. Please I am waiting for the solution on how you get out of that situation.

Assuming he was at school, is there no teacher that he can run to? Your right, it would be hard for him to walk away, but I go back to my point, he is no longer the victim when he brings a weapon to school, because he has the potentially to accidentally harm other people who are not involved in the conflict.

Leadfinger:

Sandytimeman:

Leadfinger:
So you think bringing an illegal weapon to school was the best solution?

A stun gun is about as non-lethal as you can get. All weapons are forbidden on this school ground and the administrators were just willing to let the beatings happen. He had no choice but to defend himself.

Allow me to rephrase-The only options you are able to perceive in this situation are to allow oneself to be beaten, or to brandish a forbidden weapon at school?

He was surrounded by six people about to beat the living shit out of him. If he hadn't of had that weapon with him. What would you have done? Ball up? These are motivated homophobes who are not being discouraged by the school at all. He would have died.

Helmholtz Watson:

Athinira:

Helmholtz Watson:
Again, the kid went to far when he brought a weapon to school. If were talking about last ditch efforts, the kid should have dressed differently because when deciding whether or not to bring a weapon to school or moderate how you dress, the latter is obviously the more reasonable choice.

Saying that he should change himself to avoid bullies is NOT reasonable. First of all, you are assuming the bullying would stop - That's likely not to be the case, especially since they already knew he was gay. Here in Denmark, we have problems with anti-gay gangs luring gay men out on a supposed blind date and then beating them up. When bullying is related to things such as sexual orientation or similar, it's VERY unlikely to stop.

Secondly, the only ting that is reasonable is that the perpetrators get the punishment, not the victim. We shouldn't compromise with behavior like that EVER! Hell, the US went to war because they wouldn't compromise with terrorists. Why the hell should victims compromise with bullies? What's next, should rape victims compromise with rapists and "not have worn revealing clothes"? :o)

As for the whole "weapons" discussion, people seem to forget that we carry weapons on us at all times. They're called fists, and they are, in fact, more lethal thjan a civilian stun gun. "6 bullies" can be classified as a much more dangerous weapon than a non-lethal civilian stun-gun (not to mention the fact that finding an improvised weapon is also relatively easy) - and therefore using a non-lethal weapon as a response to a situation that is potentially very lethal is not inappropriate at all, especially since he didn't use it but only threatened to scare them away. He handled this by the book aka. very appropriately.

And here in the US we have enough people shooting up schools as is, we don't need to give people more justification to bring weapons to school. As I said before, I sympathized with the kid until I found out he brought a weapon to school

And really, how would this have solved the problem in the long term? Let's follow this to it's logical conclusion. You aren't always going to have a weapon. And who's to say they wouldn't all bring their own, now putting your own life in jeopardy? In a situation like this. Weapons simply are not the answer.

senordesol:

verdant monkai:
Change the kids school and don't let the kid tell everyone he is gay, if he wants to tell everyone ask him if he wants a repeat of last time, which he wont. So no one will make fun of him for being a homosexual problem solved.

No, problem NOT fucking solved. 'Run and hide?' that's your solution? Live in fear everyday that a slip of the tongue might condemn him to a beatdown and -what?- change schools again?

Please calm down and there is no need for expletives.
Yes I suppose you are right Gay people are pretty easy to spot. But if his situation has become bad enough he has to resort to a weapon, I think a change of schools is the right option just this once.
Maybe he could change schools to a liberal church school or something. My school is a church one we have a gay guy who moved to avoid bullying, and no one really cares other than the odd chav. But he is fine and better off for the move.
Or he could take your suggestion and get the shit kicked out of him, or go on a campaign and get loads of negative attention and get known as the gay guy who is moaning about our school. You could argue he should take a stand but there is time for that, like when he is not in an anti homosexual environment. Where he is not in danger of being beaten up by his peers.

Sandytimeman:

Leadfinger:

Sandytimeman:

A stun gun is about as non-lethal as you can get. All weapons are forbidden on this school ground and the administrators were just willing to let the beatings happen. He had no choice but to defend himself.

Allow me to rephrase-The only options you are able to perceive in this situation are to allow oneself to be beaten, or to brandish a forbidden weapon at school?

He was surrounded by six people about to beat the living shit out of him. If he hadn't of had that weapon with him. What would you have done? Ball up? These are motivated homophobes who are not being discouraged by the school at all. He would have died.

And the next time he tries it? Suppose they bring their own weapons, because they know he has one. What then? See, you're not thinking long term. This is an action that could very easily have gotten him killed, not just hurt.

Awesome mom is awesome.

Shame the kid didn't get to zap a few bullies though.

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