Anyone else think Marvel heroes are just 'more fun' than DC heroes?

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Starke:

SaneAmongInsane:
I'm a DC guy, and I like Batman. I think someone said on this forum that Batman is like the child fantasy because he's the human that has everything... and well thats true, theres a very dark immature emo side that can really relate to the neurotic and paranoid guy that feels he has to take his aggressions out on purse snatchers.

Plus Batman is a detective, and I like crime novels. My favorite Batman stories are the ones where he's going up against regular twobit crooks or the mafia because those are the ones that are the most realistic.

This actually reminds me of something we see every time a new writer starts a Batman run, they'll say, "I want to get back to him being a detective." Three issues later he's usually wading his way through goons like nothing happened, and the detective angle is long forgotten, again.

This isn't a universal thing, The Long Halloween comes to mind as an exception. But, for interesting Batman stuff it's really hit or miss.

SaneAmongInsane:
I like Superman too, and anything involving those two working with the other members of the justice league. I also here more story archs from DC that plain get me interested, like I still want to read the Superboy Prime arch because he sounds like such an awesome villian.... Like he's fucking Eric Harris with Superman powers going around killing fuckers.

Superman... honestly, it's pretty rare for me to care about him. When you start digging in and getting at philosophy of what does it mean to have this kind of power, like with Kingdom Come, I sit up and take notice, or when it turns the character concept around, as with Red Son. The rest of the time, I have a hard time seeing anything interesting going on there.

SaneAmongInsane:
Marvel... I have a hard time getting into, but some of their heroes interest me. Ghost Rider, I like. Spiderman. Wolverine. But it kind of ends there.... Oh and Machine Man!!!! I've only had a few comics with him in it, but I'd love to see more of this sociopath drunk guy that works with Ms. Marvel.

I don't really like Iron Man because, judging off the movies, the character seems to have no essential sadness or dread. He just seems like a rich cocky jerk that plays hero cause it's fun, which yeah is awesome in it's own right but... *shrug* I know he has some sort of drinking problem, I'd like to see have a whole movie where he's like Hancock. Saving people but being a total drunk dick about it.

Iron Man started out as a fairly straight forward guy who fights crime in a super suit. The alcoholism came around in the 80s when Marvel was reworking their characters after Frank Miller's run on Daredevil. To an extent that leaves us with a character who doesn't make a lot of sense, he fights crime in the suit because he thinks it's the right thing to do, but is also really self destructive.

Ultimate Tony Stark was terminally ill (brain tumor), so the crime fighting was a way of making his life mean something. Normal one (and the film version) had a bit of shrapnel wedged near his heart, now that's been gone for years in the main setting, but for a long time it was he fights crime because he's going to die and needs to do something meaningful. The difference of course is that Tony Stark, unlike Bruce Wayne, isn't a facade, he really is a narcissistic jackass, and remains a narcissistic jackass while he's trying to do good. The main continuity version has moved a bit beyond that, but that's what you've got.

SaneAmongInsane:
Plus with Marvel I just don't understand how things work. Like okay, people hate mutants... but Captain America is okay? How the fuck do Thor and Ghost Rider coexist (unless that alien bullshit from the movie counts too?).

Well, Captain America's fine because he's not a mutant, he's a freakin' icon from the Second World War, who's still alive and kicking because of a super-soldier project. He predates the mutant issues by twenty to forty years, and had an established place long before they came along. For that matter, Nick Fury is the same way in the main setting, he's been kicking around as long as Cap, and because of nearly the same treatments.

You have non-mutants like Spiderman who get lumped in with the mutants pretty regularly.

As for Ghost Rider and Thor? Because. Really. There are a lot of different pantheons in Marvel, including a somewhat overtly Abrahamic one. Thor is from one of those, Ghost Rider was kicked out of the hell of another. There are aliens loose in the setting, btw, but Thor isn't one of them. Silver Surfer, and Captain Mar'vell on the other hand...

Okay that's an interesting angle for Stark... I however just have no interest in the character I suppose. I want to say it's because I feel like I can't relate to him, but that sounds silly. I can relate to Superman and Batman but not Iron Man? *shrug*

Yeah but... like whats the difference between a mutant and captain america aside from the origin of their super powers? I mean to the civilians of that universe?

also the Ghost Rider/Thor issue bugs the crap out of me. Ghost Rider exist so Judeo-Christian religion is correct. There is a God, but God also says there is no other Gods but him.... Yet Thor is there.... Didn't Spiderman make a deal with the devil once too?

I know what you mean about Batman, we don't have enough stories where he's literally just a rich guy dressing in a silly costume fighting crime. I'd imagine that be a hard sell for the fanbase, especially Batman's basically become a human demigod that steam rolls through everything... But when it comes to the Batman stories I like to read (or shamefully write in FanFiction) I like the stories like Batman: Year One where he makes rookie mistakes and shit.

Didn't like Superman until someone explained the concept to me that it's such amazing thing that he chooses to be hero and guardian of Earth cause... well, think about it. He has no real reason to care about any of us, he's an alien. He's also powerful enough that he could enslave us as easily as he chooses to save us... Yet all he really wants it's the ability to have a normal life, a job, Lois Lane's heart. To me that's really cool, especially since anyone else who had his powers would probably end up like Hal Stewart from the movie MegaMind:

or Hancock:

Now I know what you mean, most of his comics don't really explore that but *shrug*

him over there:

The Avengers are like Dethklok, a cross between a dudebro frat house and an actual family household of a group of world famous people who can literally affect the entire world. Too bad the Avengers aren't as cool as Dethklok:


Now that's how you rescue a teammate!

Not to derail the thread or anything....BUT HOW THE FUCK DID I FORGET THAT SEASON 4 WAS ON?!?!?

Cheers for reminding me.

I like Marvel and DC... though I don't understand why DC's "New 52" needs to be "darker like Marvel". I mean, really?

I've heard something like this stated before...

Batman > Marvel > Rest of DC

Anyone else feel this way?

SaneAmongInsane:

Plus with Marvel I just don't understand how things work. Like okay, people hate mutants... but Captain America is okay? How the fuck do Thor and Ghost Rider coexist (unless that alien bullshit from the movie counts too?).

People hate mutants because they fear mutants. There powers and such are random, the people who have it are distributed across the population and its more of a fear of the unknown than with a specific person. People are fine with mutates (people exposed to something that gives them abilities like Spiderman) and other classes of superheroes because their abilities aren't randomly generated and thus they don't have to fear a population explosion of people who can start you on fire by looking at you or some other ridiculous advantage from the guy down the street. That is my take on it anyway.

As for Ghost Rider/Thor I'm not sure what problem you have with them existing in the same continuity. Ghost rider in the comics did not sell his soul to the devil (which by the way exists[1] in the DC universe) but to a demon named Mephisto. Although to be fair that was a bit of a retcon. Yes Thor is an alien in the comics as well and always has been. The Olympians and the other pantheons exists as well and are also aliens. Depictions of religious figures exists within the DC universe as well with at least the existence of the previously mentioned Lucifer and the Olympian Gods[2].

OT: I don't really have a preference. I certainly prefer some characters over others, but by and large I like both universes. However I would like to point out that the "power" in terms of the abilities/strength of the heroes in the DC universe isn't that different from what is in the Marvel universe.

Edit: Direct links would only give errors so I footnoted them.

Daystar Clarion:

him over there:
Green Lantern is pretty cool, but only because the new cartoon incorporated the red lanterns as the antagonists and the first ever blue lantern showed up to help defeat them. Marvel is far more fun on the whole though. The thing about the avengers though is that they're pretty much a dude bro fraternity except with a lot more heart, the justice league is a fucking computing office by comparison.

Probably why I like the Avengers a lot more then :D

Not drawing any comparison between them and the Brovengers or anything.

Nope.

Certainly not.

Sweet new user title, by the way bro.

While Avengers Assemble was one of the greatest films of all time[1] my only two gripes with it are interestingly enough Captain America related.

First of all, his costume. The costume in CA: First Avenger was absolutely awesome. Simple, but you could see how it was actually armor. Come Avengers: "We've made some changes to your costume."[2]

My second was that there was a bit of plot armor tossed his way to make him not seem totally outclassed compared to Thor, Hulk and Iron Man. Actually, maybe that's why his new costume is so bad. His new armor is plot armor!

[1] OF ALL TAAAHM!!!!!
[2] By which I mean we sold the costume on Ebay after we thawed you out. Here's a man sized "Captain America" halloween costume instead.

I will admit that generally Marvel has more fun characters than DC.

But DC has Batman and my favorite superhero group, the Titans. Which I have more fun watching/reading than anything from Marvel. It all comes down to personal opinion really.

I think the biggest problem with DC heroes is how DC doesn't know how to market them to the main stream. They have some regular guy characters like Green Arrow but he just doesn't get much air-time in the shows. I think I do like the Marvel Universe more than the DC Universe over-all but I'm getting into the New 52 and there are some DC graphic novels I really, really like (Long Halloween and, Final Crisis to name a couple)

...I LIKE those two but I should be getting an Infinity Gauntlet collection today and I've been dying to read that for a long while now.

Also, as a person I like Batman depending on two factors: Who the writer is and (where applicable) who the actor is. George Clooney is my favorite Bruce Wayne (Bruce Wayne, not Batman) and, Adam West is the most well-known/beloved (though Kevin Conroy is my favorite). In the comics though...well, Frank Miller's Batman is a great example of a horrible, horrible person (All-Stars Batman and Robin: You'll know the meme when you see it)

I'll admit, I don't know DC & Marvel that well, but I do think this sometimes.
Then I remember Spiderman 2 and think that even Aquaman never got that depressed and he's probably the only superhero that should be.

Him & Bi-Polar Bear...he's from the Tick...those were the kinds of comics I read.

Generally speaking yes, I find Marvel characters to be more interesting. I actually never really read comics until the whole Civil War thing (which I've heard most comic readers really hated, dunno why) but to me it seems like Marvel's heroes are all written to have actual personalities before they're paired off against their villains or put into their plot arcs. Iron Man in the comics is extremely human - he's really flawed and can be incredibly selfish. The same goes for all the other heroes.

It seems like Marvel characters and story arcs are often conceived in a different way than DC ones. Hell, the X-Men were created as a giant civil rights allegory, hence why their overarching theme is so persistent. And the entire Civil War story arc was an exploration of liberty vs. security, what it means, and how it affects people. Spider-Man's entire life and outlook on being a hero is shaped by his girlfriend who he accidentally killed, and then of course Uncle Ben. Many of Marvel's characters follow suit. DC characters, on the other hand...well, there's Batman, who when written well is probably the most interesting of the lot. The rest of them, though? I dunno, I really just can't muster up any interest. There aren't any flaws in them that make them human and relatable - which I guess can be fun at first but no real adversity makes things boring very quickly. There's always that whole joke about the Justice League where Superman can basically do everything unless there's somehow some kryptonite, at which point the rest of the crew actually has to step in...but then all they need to do is move it away so Superman can continue trucking on.

There is one thing I do have to give DC credit for, though, and that's The Question. The Question is definitely one of - if not the - best heroes ever created. Of all time. And whatever their other failings are, DC will always have props for making him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDBxlOfJnoQ&feature=related

Daystar Clarion:
All just my opinion of course, feel free to tell me why you like DC more than Marvel.

I've never liked DC too much because I always get the impression that their characters aren't ones you can really relate to or are just plain not interesting. I for one have a preference for the violent, darker characters like The Punisher, Ghost Rider and John Constantine (HellBlazer). With the exception of Constantine, all my favourite characters are Marvel simply because I find them to be "more human". They have problems and you can understand their pain, so to speak.

I also don't like DC because every time they make a change, some people whine and they just do a reboot. Their continuity is just fucked going back and forth like that.

Also Marvel has, or had, The Sentry who is essentially their version of Superman, but with schizophrenia and a bad ass. He is easily the most powerful character in their universe.

Vault101:
never gotten into mainstream super-heros

now.."The Boys" is what you might call a..."fun" look at super heros

hehehehehehehe....

Man, if it wasn't for The Boys, I would never have discovered how frickin' amazing Chocolate Limes are.

I loved the 'Superduper' team arc - as twisted as The Boys gets at times, that arc had some real heart to it. Oh, and the 'Love Sausage' is a riot! Yeah, a fun bunch of comics if you don't mind running things a little close to the bone.

Ill say that personally I like batman as a char. Although it gets dreged up too often the fact that he took a tragedy and turned it around to overcome it is a solid char trait that I personally identify with. I also firmly support the no kill char trait as a strength.

DC does have a horrible roster though. Outside of batman the only char thats got the potential to be truly likable is green lantern and not only does he have so many Overpowered char flaws hes like a tabula rasa that whenever the writers do something that doesnt fly with the general public they just white wash it and start over again with a new one.

But as bad as DCs roster is, Marvel is far worse. Aside from being owned by disney now, which for me is an irreconsilable failing, Marvels roster has too many in its stable and most of them are under the mutant umbrella. If you take away all the mutant chars from Marvel you see that marvels roster is just as goofy as DCs if not more so. Just look at how the writers jerk around Ben Grimm.

As for the mutants ehh.. they are generally unimpressive. About the only one that ever interested me personally was Gambit and that was based mostly on the 90s xmen cartoon rather than the comic.

Au contraire, I never understood the appeal of most Marvel heroes.
Now Green Lantern on the other hand... even better when teaming up with the Flash, that's an even better duo than Batman and Superman because contrary to the latter Flash and GL actually have fun and humor going on.

Shoggoth2588:
I think the biggest problem with DC heroes is how DC doesn't know how to market them to the main stream. They have some regular guy characters like Green Arrow but he just doesn't get much air-time in the shows.

You mean the excentric billionaire, politician, former mayor of Star City and passionate social activist with the crazys beard? Quite a regular guy indeed.

CrazyGirl17:
I like Marvel and DC... though I don't understand why DC's "New 52" needs to be "darker like Marvel". I mean, really?

I agree, I mean I've enjoyed what I've seen out of the New 52 (as silly as it is, Red Hood and the Outlaws with overly sexy Starfire and somehow normal Jason Todd). But I can see that they are trying to be Marvel but they really can't do it.

SaneAmongInsane:

also the Ghost Rider/Thor issue bugs the crap out of me. Ghost Rider exist so Judeo-Christian religion is correct. There is a God, but God also says there is no other Gods but him.... Yet Thor is there.... Didn't Spiderman make a deal with the devil once too?

Ahh I can help with this. The closest thing they have to the Devil in the Marvelverse is Mephisto who made the deal with Spider-Man (much to the chargrin of 90% of the Spider-Man fans because Joe Quesada doesn't give a shit about them) and also is responsible for Ghost Rider. Lucifer also exists but they have kept his background mysterious. The prime Judeo-Christian god has only appeared sparingly it seems (I can only find him mentioned in the Lucifer article).

From my knowledge, the Asgardians are "gods" but they are more alien humans than gods (this is one thing that the Thor movie alluded to which I was impressed with).

Quaxar:
Au contraire, I never understood the appeal of most Marvel heroes.
Now Green Lantern on the other hand... even better when teaming up with the Flash, that's an even better duo than Batman and Superman because contrary to the latter Flash and GL actually have fun and humor going on.

Shoggoth2588:
I think the biggest problem with DC heroes is how DC doesn't know how to market them to the main stream. They have some regular guy characters like Green Arrow but he just doesn't get much air-time in the shows.

You mean the excentric billionaire, politician, former mayor of Star City and passionate social activist with the crazys beard? Quite a regular guy indeed.

It truly is amazing how many people get confused between "regular human" and "pants on head retarded when put side by side with superhumans". Batman and Hawkeye (who became insanely popular after Avengers, despite being virtually unknown beforehand, serving as a hilarious example of idiocy when Avengers Assemble fanboys claim a Justice League movie could never work because they don't have as many universally known characters). Everyone keeps saying things like "He can keep up with all the super powered characters despite being a regular guy." Without realising, no he really can't without his thick layer of plot armour. Making a regular human who can keep up with Superman or Thor is not good writing. It's really, really bad writing. It's basically "Because he's totally super awesome! So there!" Hawkeye at least fits relatively better in his team than Batman does though. At least the Avengers isn't solely full of people who play volleyball with planets.

Quaxar:
Au contraire, I never understood the appeal of most Marvel heroes.
Now Green Lantern on the other hand... even better when teaming up with the Flash, that's an even better duo than Batman and Superman because contrary to the latter Flash and GL actually have fun and humor going on.

Shoggoth2588:
I think the biggest problem with DC heroes is how DC doesn't know how to market them to the main stream. They have some regular guy characters like Green Arrow but he just doesn't get much air-time in the shows.

You mean the excentric billionaire, politician, former mayor of Star City and passionate social activist with the crazys beard? Quite a regular guy indeed.

And in one fell swoop, my ignorance of Green Arrow is shown...damn...I don't remember that being covered in Justice League OR Unlimited (in my paper-thin defense)

Yeah, DC heroes are just... more dull somehow. Although Batman villains are probably the best villains around. (this of course coming from someone who has not had much contact with comics themselves)

Squirrel Girl. The most powerful hero in the Marvel Universe has the power to talk to squirrels. She then defeated Doctor Doom. And Galactus.

Shoggoth2588:

Quaxar:

Shoggoth2588:
I think the biggest problem with DC heroes is how DC doesn't know how to market them to the main stream. They have some regular guy characters like Green Arrow but he just doesn't get much air-time in the shows.

You mean the excentric billionaire, politician, former mayor of Star City and passionate social activist with the crazys beard? Quite a regular guy indeed.

And in one fell swoop, my ignorance of Green Arrow is shown...damn...I don't remember that being covered in Justice League OR Unlimited (in my paper-thin defense)

Don't worry, I get my Green Arrow trivia only from his tie-ins with GL and/or the Flash. So not like I'm the big expert. It just seemed odd when even Superman has a more "normal" life than Oliver Queen.

Spot1990:

Quaxar:
Au contraire, I never understood the appeal of most Marvel heroes.
Now Green Lantern on the other hand... even better when teaming up with the Flash, that's an even better duo than Batman and Superman because contrary to the latter Flash and GL actually have fun and humor going on.

Shoggoth2588:
I think the biggest problem with DC heroes is how DC doesn't know how to market them to the main stream. They have some regular guy characters like Green Arrow but he just doesn't get much air-time in the shows.

You mean the excentric billionaire, politician, former mayor of Star City and passionate social activist with the crazys beard? Quite a regular guy indeed.

It truly is amazing how many people get confused between "regular human" and "pants on head retarded when put side by side with superhumans". Batman and Hawkeye (who became insanely popular after Avengers, despite being virtually unknown beforehand, serving as a hilarious example of idiocy when Avengers Assemble fanboys claim a Justice League movie could never work because they don't have as many universally known characters). Everyone keeps saying things like "He can keep up with all the super powered characters despite being a regular guy." Without realising, no he really can't without his thick layer of plot armour. Making a regular human who can keep up with Superman or Thor is not good writing. It's really, really bad writing. It's basically "Because he's totally super awesome! So there!" Hawkeye at least fits relatively better in his team than Batman does though. At least the Avengers isn't solely full of people who play volleyball with planets.

Are... are you sure you wanted to quote me? Because if so I'm not sure what your point with me is.

captcha: bond, james bond
I'm under the impression this captcha is getting stranger every time I post.

Spot1990:

Jack the Potato:
Someone from X-men could tell me "I don't trust those mutants!" and I'd say "Yea, that makes sense! Especially since some of them actually DO shit like that!"

So you wouldn't trust all mutants because some do bad shit?... Right and you don't see how that's a bit racist?

It's not solely about racism, though it did start that way. It's about bigotry. It's hating people for an accident of birth rather than who they are as people.

See, no. There's "accident of birth" and then there's SUPERPOWERS. I personally in that situation would be fine with the X-men because they're good people (barring the occasional bouts of insanity), but I could never blame someone for not trusting them. I certainly wouldn't dare compare them to racists! Racists are on a an entirely different and irrational level. Disliking someone because they're skin is brown is idiotic; disliking someone because they can disintegrate you without even trying is smart. Perhaps a bit cynical, but smart nonetheless.

Spot1990:

Shadowkire:
Exactly, anytime I hear anyone say "but Superman has a weakness to...." I point to whichever example of Superman ignoring that weakness I feel will be best for the situation. Usually I use the scene from the last movie when Superman throws an island of kryptonite into space.

Right so that makes it fair me to call in other continuities when everyone says Batman has no superpowers?

Anytime I hear someone say Batman has no powers I point out that time he was the Green Lantern.

If you can find me a single canon story line of Superman ignoring one of his weaknesses I'll be very impressed.

Actually after the Blackest Night storyline I don't think there is a single character in DC that didn't have a power ring at some point.

What is canon in comic books? Didn't they reboot everything with 52? So do I have to use an example only from that or can I dig in from anywhere and from any writer? I choose the last movie. If I can't there are dozens of examples in the comics of superman being rendered too weak to stand one day, so the writers can have a nod to the fable of the mouse that pulls the thorn out of the lion's paw when some normal person jumps in and throws the kryptonite away. Then, in the same series with the same writers, superman is rendered weak but strong enough to crawl and at vital moments strong enough to leap/lung for a lever/throw the kryptonite away.

SaneAmongInsane:
Okay that's an interesting angle for Stark... I however just have no interest in the character I suppose. I want to say it's because I feel like I can't relate to him, but that sounds silly. I can relate to Superman and Batman but not Iron Man? *shrug*

Honestly, at the risk of repeating myself, I kinda suspect that has a lot to do with how DC doesn't really have characters. (Marvel doesn't either, but back to that in a moment.) With DC it's easier to relate to Batman or Superman because (most of the time) they're presented as this kind of paragon archetype. Kinda like a narrative Rorschach test. You see traits you identify with, even if they're kinda not there. The illustration of this is of course the joke description of Batman as "A rich white guy with daddy issues."

It doesn't mean that they can't be interesting. And, a little further down you actually pinpointed one of the better bits from Batman: Frank Miller's Year One. But, for the most part they're devoid of features that can make them unlikable as well. I mean, it's Batman, what's not to like.

In contrast the Marvel characters aren't so much characters, as gimmicks and quirks, piled together. Tony Stark is a jackass, Matt Murdoch is a blind jackass, Thor is an arrogant psychopath, and Spiderman's having a nervous breakdown most of the time. For a lot of people, those flaws are what really sells the characters. It sets a much lower bar for relating to the characters for the reader, or I should say for some readers.

Daredevil always strikes me as an excellent example of this. (And I'm going on old survey data here, so it may be a bit out of date.) But, in contrast to characters like Batman, he tends to be less popular with kids and teens (because of the disability angle), and has never sold as well as the batbooks (obviously). But, when you get to adult readers, and when you control for children/teens with disabilities (any disabilities, really) his appeal skyrockets. This got laid at the feet of him being an underdog, rather than Batman's rolling demigod status, as you put it.

I'm not saying Daredevil's better, but I am saying a lot of the Marvel books are somewhat tailored to specific mindsets, while DC's better suited to general mass consumption.

SaneAmongInsane:
Yeah but... like whats the difference between a mutant and captain america aside from the origin of their super powers? I mean to the civilians of that universe?

Simply? Hypocrisy and jingoism. It's a bit like saying where's the difference between George Washington and Ho Chih Mihn? You ask an American that, especially thirty, thirty-five years ago, and you'd be told it's not the same thing. One of them is canonized in American consciousness, and the other is demonized. Even when there are some pretty striking similarities when you get down to the actual history.

Now, how does the source of his powers really justify the different treatment? It doesn't. But, his status as a "True American Hero" from long before the major waves of mutants started to show up, secures him a unique place in his world's culture.

In fact, I think you could do a pretty interesting run playing with the idea that he actually is a mutant, and that the serum never really worked at all, that he was the secret ingredient. But, I hope that kinda makes sense.

SaneAmongInsane:
also the Ghost Rider/Thor issue bugs the crap out of me. Ghost Rider exist so Judeo-Christian religion is correct. There is a God, but God also says there is no other Gods but him.... Yet Thor is there.... Didn't Spiderman make a deal with the devil once too?

There was also a rather godawful (pun not intended) run of Punisher stuff back in the late 90s, where he was hunting down and killing Demons for Heaven.

But, yeah, Marvel has a lot of gods or godlike beings floating around. I suppose it's possible that Thor is really some kind of transdimensional being that really was the Norse god. But, ultimately, Marvel's universe has at least the Norse and Greek pantheons running around as well as the Judeo-Christian God, and all that entails. I can see where it can be a real sticking point for Christians, but the setting itself just kind of shrugs and says "there are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophies," right before butchering Shakespeare by having Thor open his mouth.

Actually, as an aside, Ultimates 2 revolves around Loki manipulating reality in such a way to convince everyone that Ultimate Thor is in fact just an escaped mental patient with a prototype powered armor suit. It's actually a pretty damn entertaining read, though not as good as the first Ultimates.

EDIT: Come to think of it, DC's actually just as guilty. Although he was in exile from main continuity for a few years, John Constantine frequently trucked with Angels and Devils, and he exists alongside Wonder Woman and her Greek Pantheon backing.

SaneAmongInsane:
I know what you mean about Batman, we don't have enough stories where he's literally just a rich guy dressing in a silly costume fighting crime. I'd imagine that be a hard sell for the fanbase, especially Batman's basically become a human demigod that steam rolls through everything... But when it comes to the Batman stories I like to read (or shamefully write in FanFiction) I like the stories like Batman: Year One where he makes rookie mistakes and shit.

Yeah, of the recent Batman material (say, the last 15 years), my favorites have all been the books set early in his career, Long Halloween, Dark Victory, and the Matt Wagner stuff, including Trinity, (and of course Elseworlds... anything Elseworlds just about).

It's not that I dislike the character, it's that since Dark Knight Returns, Batman has become this unkillable ubermensch you can defeat anyone he wants with sufficient prep time, even characters that he has literally no way to beat, like Midnighter.

SaneAmongInsane:
Didn't like Superman until someone explained the concept to me that it's such amazing thing that he chooses to be hero and guardian of Earth cause... well, think about it. He has no real reason to care about any of us, he's an alien. He's also powerful enough that he could enslave us as easily as he chooses to save us... Yet all he really wants it's the ability to have a normal life, a job, Lois Lane's heart. To me that's really cool, especially since anyone else who had his powers would probably end up like Hal Stewart from the movie

Now I know what you mean, most of his comics don't really explore that but *shrug*

Yeah, I think Superman has some real potential depth. Unfortunately, it's usually only depth we see played with in Elseworlds (like Red Son or Kingdom Come), or in parallel characters, like Mark Waid's Irredeemable. I'm not saying he can't be interesting, or isn't interesting, just that most writers who actually take over the book don't have anything interesting to say with him. So it runs a real risk of degenerating into The Adventures of Mary Sue Man, instead of some really meaty philosophy.

I get why, that's not what DC wants with the character, and that's fine, it's their court, they get to make the rules up as they go, but it does disappoint me a bit.

Spot1990:

Quaxar:
Au contraire, I never understood the appeal of most Marvel heroes.
Now Green Lantern on the other hand... even better when teaming up with the Flash, that's an even better duo than Batman and Superman because contrary to the latter Flash and GL actually have fun and humor going on.

Shoggoth2588:
I think the biggest problem with DC heroes is how DC doesn't know how to market them to the main stream. They have some regular guy characters like Green Arrow but he just doesn't get much air-time in the shows.

You mean the excentric billionaire, politician, former mayor of Star City and passionate social activist with the crazys beard? Quite a regular guy indeed.

It truly is amazing how many people get confused between "regular human" and "pants on head retarded when put side by side with superhumans". Batman and Hawkeye (who became insanely popular after Avengers, despite being virtually unknown beforehand, serving as a hilarious example of idiocy when Avengers Assemble fanboys claim a Justice League movie could never work because they don't have as many universally known characters). Everyone keeps saying things like "He can keep up with all the super powered characters despite being a regular guy." Without realising, no he really can't without his thick layer of plot armour. Making a regular human who can keep up with Superman or Thor is not good writing. It's really, really bad writing. It's basically "Because he's totally super awesome! So there!" Hawkeye at least fits relatively better in his team than Batman does though. At least the Avengers isn't solely full of people who play volleyball with planets.

What can I say, at least we didn't get Hank Pym?

The only thing that does worry me about a Justice League film is that it'll get shoved out the door as fast as possible to capitalize on The Avengers, and we'll end up with another mess like Green Lantern.

No duh dude, no duh dude.

SaneAmongInsane:
I'm a DC guy, and I like Batman. I think someone said on this forum that Batman is like the child fantasy because he's the human that has everything... and well thats true, theres a very dark immature emo side that can really relate to the neurotic and paranoid guy that feels he has to take his aggressions out on purse snatchers.

Plus Batman is a detective, and I like crime novels. My favorite Batman stories are the ones where he's going up against regular twobit crooks or the mafia because those are the ones that are the most realistic.

I like Superman too, and anything involving those two working with the other members of the justice league. I also here more story archs from DC that plain get me interested, like I still want to read the Superboy Prime arch because he sounds like such an awesome villian.... Like he's fucking Eric Harris with Superman powers going around killing fuckers.

Marvel... I have a hard time getting into, but some of their heroes interest me. Ghost Rider, I like. Spiderman. Wolverine. But it kind of ends there.... Oh and Machine Man!!!! I've only had a few comics with him in it, but I'd love to see more of this sociopath drunk guy that works with Ms. Marvel.

I don't really like Iron Man because, judging off the movies, the character seems to have no essential sadness or dread. He just seems like a rich cocky jerk that plays hero cause it's fun, which yeah is awesome in it's own right but... *shrug* I know he has some sort of drinking problem, I'd like to see have a whole movie where he's like Hancock. Saving people but being a total drunk dick about it.

Plus with Marvel I just don't understand how things work. Like okay, people hate mutants... but Captain America is okay? How the fuck do Thor and Ghost Rider coexist (unless that alien bullshit from the movie counts too?).

*exasperated sigh* Ok, Marvel is one of those "you have to have at least read ----- series and ----- series and ------ series and then read ------ series and this one spin off and etc. to under stand it. And people are fine with Cap because he isn't really a mutant. He is a government super soldier, also he wasn't born a super soldier. And as for Tony Stark, yea he is a drunk but he also isn't one of those "drunk on the job ha ha" type of heroes he is one of those "Asshole, why the FUCK are you drinking now! You're gonna get someone killed". His drinking on the job actually got him almost and at one point booted from the Avengers because he blew up a bus with people in it or something like that. Also he at alot of points gets severe depression and tries to commit suicide multiple times despite Cap,War Machine, Thor, and some of the other Avengers best efforts to try and help him out through depression and being a alcoholic. I'm not gonna go on a tyrant rant on you because you like DC and don't understand Marvels story (To each his own). But please don't get your information on the Marvel universe from the movies and then proceed to call an element of it bullshit.

Captcha:black gold. Wait? Isn't that a Miracle of Sound song

There's a bunch of interesting comparisons you can draw between DC and Marvel.
Marvel is interesting for showing struggle. When you think about it, a lot of it's big names are street-level. Consider Wolverine and Spider-man.

Whereas DC is interesting for the way it incorporates big, grand mythology into itself. The Justice League feels more like a Pantheon of gods - They have characters tied in with concepts like the Oceans, Technology, Speed, War, Order, Justice, Vengeance, et cetera, and the characters basically embody those concepts.
The Avengers feel more human. They have an ever-shifting roster and one might be totally unrecognizable from another. They are closely associated with governments and are regularly skewered by the media and financial problems.

I mean, the two cross over a lot, but generally I consider the difference between the two to be thus;
DC characters are about symbolism and idolatry - They are people you can look up to.
Marvel characters are about struggle and humanity - They are people you can relate to.
Again, there are places where they overlap, but that's a good rule of thumb.

So I tie that rule in with the "Who is more fun" question, by showing these two fights:


(Skip to about 1:47)

The first is Wolvy versus Hulk. A bloody, desperate battle that is just two completely savage freaks unloading everything they have on one another.

The second is two extremely powerful Cosmic Gods tossing each other around a city, shattering windows for miles with each blow. Notice that this is Good Versus Evil rather than just pure chaos.

In my opinion, both fights are fun, in really different ways. I'm a marvel man personally, but I love both.

Even so, I'd rather see Spider-man in a very personal fight with Venom at low stakes than see Superman clashing with Luthor over the fate of a planet.

i agree, but i could live with the overpowered thing if they had actually depth or character flaws. it's one or the other in my book.

Captain America has virtually no character flaws but he's still a brilliant character in the movies because he has alot less power than his teammates, and he stands for something, the American ideal as it was in WW2.

Superman doesnt have any character flaws but is stupidly overpowered. it's like he's Thor, if Thor never went through that violent douchebag phase he had in the Thor movie. Superman isn't human, that isn't just his origin story, it's his whole character arc, he's 2 demensional, i can't relate to a character that isn't even human in spirit.

of course any critisism leveled against DC could be countered with the statement "except for Batman"

Sober Thal:
Hate me all you want, but Marvel and DC Comic Books: have been, and always will be, just a joke on the Geek culture.

Trust me, we are still laughing at you.

Spread yourself in another filth/lame-ass diatribe, and you'll get no more sympathy than the Church as far as I'm concerned.

Lame shit is still lame, the Hollywood movies reminded me of that. (So do the people posting in this thread, lol)

Sure there might be one or two comics that can be held up... I haven't seen nor heard about them, but I'm sure people think they exist. I haven't seen them brought up tho.

SOOOOOO EDGY!!!!!!!!!!

OT: I think that's the general consensus. People find Marvel more interesting and DC are more overpowered. But you have to remember that for each of the overpowered heroes, there's an even more overpowered villain.

And Batman never really worked for me in a team setting. I always thought his stories were better when they were just focussing on his rouges gallery.

him over there:
-snip-

No brother, you are not alone. Those who do not love Dethkolk stand against us, and those who stand against us must be destroyed!

Brutal.

Daystar Clarion:

geK0:
Not that I've ever been much of a comic book person, but I'd have to agree. I find that marvel heroes are just more interesting in general, especially he X-men. The only DC hero I really like is Batman, I'm quite indifferent to the rest of them.

Also, the whole "mutant oppression" theme that Xmen has going on is so much more interesting a motivation than any of the Batman villains have.

Even then, do you like Batman or the guys Batman has to catch?

The rogues gallery in Batman is awesome, Joker, Two Face etc.

Batman plays second fiddle to the guys he catches :D

It all depends on what you have seen. Depending on what batman faces, you get to see a bit more of his inner personality, versus the various roles he takes place as. As Bruce Wayne, he puts a bit of an act on, so that many wouldn't even consider him as a possible batman. He also works himself to death showing that. His adventures as batman are obsessive, almost compulsive to him. He can't help himself. He has to be the hero. And specific arch enemies bring out more of him. He tends to joke a bit with the joker, actually, he shows a lot of dark humor with the Joker, and the joker also tends to pull out a bit more violence out of him than usual. Mainly because the Joker has no boundaries, no place he will stop. Batman could have no limits. Many times he has been tempted to have no limits, to just kill this enemy, get revenge, etc. But he forces that dark side of him under control. He is also quite protective of children, but doesn't know quite how to deal with them. Teaching the boy wonder to be like a little version of him probably wasn't the best choice at the time, but he knows the feeling. When you are young and powerless and want to get revenge.

The larger graphic novels and regular novels are quite fascinating as well. because there are no pictures in the novels, they have to characterize Batman more, and it exposes a bit more of his inner thoughts than say "the older comics" where they really didn't want batman to have darker thoughts or anything more than completing the mission.

On the surface, if you only look at the simplistic parts, then yes, he is more of a flatter toned nature. Its when you delve into the more modern stuff that he gets more complicated.

Thats kinda why I dont like them as much, theyre fun comes off as silly sometimes.

SaneAmongInsane:
I'm a DC guy, and I like Batman. I think someone said on this forum that Batman is like the child fantasy because he's the human that has everything... and well thats true, theres a very dark immature emo side that can really relate to the neurotic and paranoid guy that feels he has to take his aggressions out on purse snatchers.

Plus Batman is a detective, and I like crime novels. My favorite Batman stories are the ones where he's going up against regular twobit crooks or the mafia because those are the ones that are the most realistic.

Fuck yeah, while DKR got me into reading Batman, Year One is what made me love reading him.

Yes. I have read comics for 30+ years, and Marvel characters typically draw my interest more so than DC firstly for looks, appearance, etc. I have read titles from both companies over the years, but when i go to CBR i look at the Marvel boards every time, DC on rare occasions. I feel Marvel (particularly Xmen titles) are more easy to relate to. Being an outcast reading about a outcast is comforting....somehow

To be honest, I find Iron Man (and his film) quite boring. I don't think Tony Stark is likeable at all, and his superhero persona is just...an iron man. He can fly, he can shoot blasts...meh.

But Wonder Woman...I don't know what the fuck they're doing with her at the moment. Someone needs to give her a kick up the backside, because I haven't heard anything from her in ages and I'm not even sure if she was a franchise or just a female Superman rip-off in the first place.

Batman's awesome, for obvious reasons, but they've been oversaturating the market with dark comic books, TV series, films...and now I hear they're doing a fucking reboot after Nolan's trilogy. They just need to give it a rest for a while.

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