Count Dankula is now a member/supporter of UKIP.

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Agema:

This is an area where labels are often not appropriate. A lot of ideologies overlap, or are shared by various political factions with otherwise quite different views. A lot of the current nexus of the right are really anti-progressives who mostly seem to be motivated by opposing feminism, black activism, Muslims, etc. However, after that, there can be considerable disparity about where they are coming from along the conventional left-right scale. But where they generally seem to end up is bolstering the right much more than the left.

Which is not surprising if you look at the traditional leftist ideologies. Liberalism is opposed to the division of people into categories on the grounds that everyone is an individual first and that ethnicity, gender, religion or what-have-you should not stand in the way of the right to be judged on individual merit. Socialism is concerned with the division of people, but only in so far as it considers the class divide a problem and wants to get rid of it (the further left you go in socialism, the closer you also come to violent solutions to the oppressing class, however), all those other things are inconsequential to a socialist.

So if you are against equality agendas, it makes sense that you end up on the right, because the people that share those ideas are all conservatives or to the right of conservatives. In a sense this is probably also what's fueling the increase in fascist and nazi groups support. They've been very adept at integrating anti-feminist, anti-muslim and other anti-equality ideas into their traditional beliefs (ie. Soros and the NWO are bankrolling feminism, muslim immigration and race equality to emasculate white men), which has an appeal to all the anti-progressives. It is probably not so much that anti-progressives are by and large nazis or fascists, as much as that they've found someone who shares their anti-progressive sentiments and don't grasp, or don't care about, the full implications of supporting the parties and groups they've thrown in their lot with.

Gethsemani:

So if you are against equality agendas, it makes sense that you end up on the right, because the people that share those ideas are all conservatives or to the right of conservatives. In a sense this is probably also what's fueling the increase in fascist and nazi groups support. They've been very adept at integrating anti-feminist, anti-muslim and other anti-equality ideas into their traditional beliefs (ie. Soros and the NWO are bankrolling feminism, muslim immigration and race equality to emasculate white men), which has an appeal to all the anti-progressives. It is probably not so much that anti-progressives are by and large nazis or fascists, as much as that they've found someone who shares their anti-progressive sentiments and don't grasp, or don't care about, the full implications of supporting the parties and groups they've thrown in their lot with.

I have seen some social analysists argue that Sargon (and others) are like "gateway" opinion to the right wing, even if not that right wing themselves. They pick up viewers hostile to progressive causes, who may have otherwise perhaps ill-formed or indistinct political views. However, these viewers are likely to end up directed to right wing anti-progressive content which they will tend to be kindly disposed to because of the existing anti-progressive sympathy. (After all, humans tend to give more credence to people they already share ideological beliefs with.)

This is I guess a funny thing about Sargon. I believe he's claimed he wants to clean up the left for its own good because he's sympathetic to it... but he's really helping bury it. The problem with centre and left-inclined anti-progressives is that they are so busy fighting the left, and almost exclusively the left, that it helps the right wing waltz into power where it pass all its deregulatory, anti-welfare, pro-rich policies.

I can;t be the only one to find the level of attention this is getting from circles that should really be focusing on the government (which is for all intents and purposes, Far-Right). Makes you wonder if it's intentional.

Ninjamedic:
I can;t be the only one to find the level of attention this is getting from circles that should really be focusing on the government (which is for all intents and purposes, Far-Right). Make you wonder if it's intentional.

Well, it's what they really care about, I guess. Social issues are easy to whinge about: "That person annoys me; the solution is that they stop doing what they do."

On the other hand, dealing with real societal problems tends to involve enormously complex processes: why are people poor, and how do we do things about it? These - even at a subconscious level - are recognised to be huge and almost intractable problems where even well intended and superficially sensible solutions don't work, and/or meet enormous political and insitutional opposition. Decades, even centuries of effort and still they persist.

In a certain pyschological sense, the happiest answer is perhaps to stop trying to do anything about it so you aren't beating your head against a wall any longer. Instead, complain that feminists or libertarians are mean people, and have the satisfaction of insulting them for being what they are. Immediate gratification, and very easy to think about.

The fact that it's going to do effectively nothing to make your life better in the ways that matter isn't really the point. One might reasonably criticise identity politics for failing to address "real" problems, but raging about identity politics doesn't actually solve those problems either. Taking down an other-ist is not going to get you a better job, a better public transport system, better computer games, better friends, less crime, etc. But it does offer the opportunity to vent frustration. It's a farcical merry-go-round of petty hot air, when in the background the banks are still mis-selling your mortgage, your job's still been outsourced to China, and you still don't have the operation you need because Bezos, Musk and Zuckerberg don't pay their taxes. If you can really just stick it to that other guy in a similar position, at least you can feel like someone's worse than you are. Hey, take Gamergate. All that fucking noise... for computer game reviews? It's a bit like being proud you've fought for a different type of mud caking your boots.

What you can certainly bet is that the people with the money and power love it all, because it leaves them free to carry on diddling us. It's a bit like Chinese censorship - what they actually do is flood the Chinese internet with so much information, misdirection and changing the subject that no-one can stay factual and on topic long enough to make a criticism of the regime stick. I don't know it's any different in the West, except that as capitalists we've outsourced the gibberish to free private media organisations instead... and then elect our leaders on it.

Agema:
I have seen some social analysists argue that Sargon (and others) are like "gateway" opinion to the right wing, even if not that right wing themselves. They pick up viewers hostile to progressive causes, who may have otherwise perhaps ill-formed or indistinct political views. However, these viewers are likely to end up directed to right wing anti-progressive content which they will tend to be kindly disposed to because of the existing anti-progressive sympathy. (After all, humans tend to give more credence to people they already share ideological beliefs with.)

It's not just social analysts that claim that, people like Richard Spencer outright stated that they valued people like Carl Benjamin, Lauren Southern, and Gavin McInnes as gateways to the extreme far-right.

For the record, I don't think most of the "anti-SJW" crowd are arguing in bad faith, I think that with a few exceptions (Kraut and Tea and Thunderf00t come to mind) they are willingly serving as an entry point to the alt-right, the amount of dishonesty they use in their arguments and their vehement desire to punch to the Left, and almost exclusively the Left, is enough proof of that.

Sargon of Akkad joins UKIP it seems.

Samtemdo8:

Sargon of Akkad joins UKIP it seems.

I thought he was kicked out of UKIP

Samtemdo8:

Sargon of Akkad joins UKIP it seems.

So he's joined the party as a joke?

A hilarious joke! To pay them money and become a member, so that you can... uhrm, make videos about how you're a member now, arf arf.

The humour escapes me somehow.

Silvanus:

Samtemdo8:

Sargon of Akkad joins UKIP it seems.

So he's joined the party as a joke?

A hilarious joke! To pay them money and become a member, so that you can... uhrm, make videos about how you're a member now, arf arf.

The humour escapes me somehow.

It's ironic, of course. And because he's joining UKIP ironically, its totally different than him joining UKIP. Kek.

Who TF is Count Dankula?

Fieldy409:
Who TF is Count Dankula?

Someone who doesn't even remotely matter. He's just another example of an edgy dumb ass on the internet basing their politics off of memes and spite.

But like I said, it's not like this even remotely matters. No really...why the hell is this thread six pages long?

Nedoras:

Fieldy409:
Who TF is Count Dankula?

Someone who doesn't even remotely matter. He's just another example of an edgy dumb ass on the internet basing their politics off of memes and spite.

But like I said, it's not like this even remotely matters. No really...why the hell is this thread six pages long?

The main argument has been what counts as supporting something, cause some people apparently believe that joining an organization does not mean you actually support it.

Saelune:

Nedoras:

Fieldy409:
Who TF is Count Dankula?

Someone who doesn't even remotely matter. He's just another example of an edgy dumb ass on the internet basing their politics off of memes and spite.

But like I said, it's not like this even remotely matters. No really...why the hell is this thread six pages long?

The main argument has been what counts as supporting something, cause some people apparently believe that joining an organization does not mean you actually support it.

Let me offer a perspective then. There is this weird subset of people who seemed to have spawned from the bowels of the internet. They don't see things like this as being serious in anyway...and I'd say that's because on the internet, things aren't really taken seriously. Say what you want, do what you want. After all, how the hell are they going to pay a price for it? They're just a faceless username. These people who were seemingly raised on internet forums, it's almost like they don't understand the things that they say and do can have consequences or make them appear to be a certain way. They view it as stupid fun, or just jokes. And the more taboo and edgy the joke, the better it is to them. If it "hurts" or "offends" someone then hey, that's their problem for taking it seriously. But that doesn't work when you're not some nameless, picture-less, random on some forum. I've seen videos of and witnessed real life situations of people doing fucking awful shit "ironically" and then getting upset at the backlash. Saying "they don't get it, the fucking normies". But they don't get it...they're not a faceless username on a forum...they're in the real world, and the real world has consequences. "Trolling" has a name in real life, it's called being a fucking asshole. They don't understand that, and it pushes them into very stupid mindsets.

I get the feeling he may be one of those people based on his username and that stupid Nazi pug video (edit: also now based on the other shit I've seen about him). After the backlash he now views his enemy as the evil "left", so he goes towards the "right" and joins them. I imagine he's politically ignorant as fuck, and doesn't even understand what UKIP is and what it truly stands for. But it's the enemy of his enemy, therefore his friend. He supports UKIP, because they "trigger" his enemy. It's a game to these people, who still view life as an internet forum. Politics be damned, they need to trigger da libs. Just like they trigger randoms online. Or he could just be an angry fool, I dunno.

Avnger:

Silvanus:

Samtemdo8:

Sargon of Akkad joins UKIP it seems.

So he's joined the party as a joke?

A hilarious joke! To pay them money and become a member, so that you can... uhrm, make videos about how you're a member now, arf arf.

The humour escapes me somehow.

It's ironic, of course. And because he's joining UKIP ironically, its totally different than him joining UKIP. Kek.

Did any of you even watch the video of him joining UKIP?

Fieldy409:
Who TF is Count Dankula?

Some twat who thinks he's funny. Hated his girlfriends dog, so he made the dog to things like a nazi salute. British government decided it was hate speech and fined him. Whixh officially makes them as stupid as him

Apparently part of a general strategy?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-right-youtube-stars-plan-takeover-of-ukip
On YouTube, Paul Joseph Watson spends his time ranting in front of a map of the world for his 1.2 million followers. Carl Benjamin poses as an ancient Mesopotamian leader. And Mark Meechan, who goes by the handle Count Dankula, is enjoying a new level of online fame after being fined ?800 for teaching his pug to do a Hitler salute.

Together, they want to be the new face of Britain's struggling U.K. Independence Party.

Joined by former Breitbart writer Milo Yiannopoulos, the British YouTube personalities are attempting to flood the right-wing party's membership roles with supporters in what Watson describes as a "soft coup."
.....
Benjamin, a self-described "classical liberal" who's gained internet fame for his attacks on liberals and feminists under the handle "Sargon of Akkad," joined in, saying he was joining UKIP as a "Trumpian protest fuck you to everyone." And Watson, an employee of Alex Jones' conspiracy website Infowars, claimed that joining UKIP is "the new counter-culture."

"Take over UKIP for the banter?" Watson tweeted. "How hard can it be?"
....
On Saturday, UKIP's three newest members were joined by Yiannopoulos, the British provocateur and former Breitbart writer.
...
Asked about his decision to join the party, Yiannopoulos wrote in an email that he "can't wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight!"

Kwak:
Apparently part of a general strategy?

Snip

Strategy for what? How is it a "protest vote"? What does a "soft coup" of UKIP actually achieve assuming you pull it off? Does he even know what he's talking about or is he just spouting word salads?

Palindromemordnilap:

Kwak:
Apparently part of a general strategy?

Snip

Strategy for what? How is it a "protest vote"? What does a "soft coup" of UKIP actually achieve assuming you pull it off? Does he even know what he's talking about or is he just spouting word salads?

They're edgy idiots playing what they think is a game. "Fuck you to everyone" and "For the banter" should tell you everything you need to know. They're trying to drag how they are on the internet into the real world and basking in the attention their sad, sorry, pathetic selves are getting for it.

Nedoras:

Palindromemordnilap:

Kwak:
Apparently part of a general strategy?

Strategy for what? How is it a "protest vote"? What does a "soft coup" of UKIP actually achieve assuming you pull it off? Does he even know what he's talking about or is he just spouting word salads?

They're edgy idiots playing what they think is a game. "Fuck you to everyone" and "For the banter" should tell you everything you need to know. They're trying to drag how they are on the internet into the real world and basking in the attention their sad, sorry, pathetic selves are getting for it.

I mean, they need to do something, so they can at least give off the appearance as being edgy and relevant still.

Kwak:

...
Asked about his decision to join the party, Yiannopoulos wrote in an email that he ?can?t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight!?

Please tell me that quote is from before Thursday.

CheetoDust:

Kwak:

...
Asked about his decision to join the party, Yiannopoulos wrote in an email that he ?can?t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight!?

Please tell me that quote is from before Thursday.

Yes he did. People called him out on it in light of yesterday. He says it was the journalists fault for not reporting on him reporting properly.

Some people are just Teflon I guess

trunkage:

CheetoDust:

Kwak:

...
Asked about his decision to join the party, Yiannopoulos wrote in an email that he ?can?t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight!?

Please tell me that quote is from before Thursday.

Yes he did. People called him out on it in light of yesterday. He says it was the journalists fault for not reporting on him reporting properly.

Some people are just Teflon I guess

Wait... yes he did say it before Thursday?..

CheetoDust:

trunkage:

CheetoDust:
Please tell me that quote is from before Thursday.

Yes he did. People called him out on it in light of yesterday. He says it was the journalists fault for not reporting on him reporting properly.

Some people are just Teflon I guess

Wait... yes he did say it before Thursday?..

Yeah.

"I can't wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight," the far-right provocateur texted a reporter for the New York Observer this week. When the reporter inquired further, Yiannopoulos explained that he had simply issued his "standard response to a request for a comment."
....
Yiannopoulos, 33, confirmed in an Instagram post that he wrote the messages about shooting journalists, but that he sent them to the reporters as a way to troll them.

"You're about to see a raft of news stories claiming that I am responsible for inspiring the deaths of journalists," he wrote. "The truth, as always, is the opposite of what the media tells you."

He continued: "I sent a troll about 'vigilante death squads as a private response to a few hostile journalists who were asking me for comment, basically as a way of saying, 'F--- off.' They then published it."
....
So it's his official standard response when asked for comment, but it's also private and not for publishing, so when they do publish the thing he says when asked for comment, it can be used as more evidence against them being some sort of malevolent force that needs retaliation against.
Brilliantly evil.
Or just stupidly evil.

Kwak:

"You're about to see a raft of news stories claiming that I am responsible for inspiring the deaths of journalists," he wrote. "The truth, as always, is the opposite of what the media tells you."

Says Media Journalist Milo Yiannopolous after saying he was just trolling and not serious.

Fox and Breitbart: The mainstream media, except when we're bashing it!

I don't think Sargon joined Ukip for da memes. It doesn't seem like it. His interest in politics seems genuine enough and he strikes me as someone who takes himself quite seriously.

Hades:
I don't think Sargon joined Ukip for da memes.

I do.

It doesn't seem like it. His interest in politics seems genuine enough and he strikes me as someone who takes himself quite seriously.

These guys are really internet entertainers. They tend to earn more in Patreon donations and YouTube income than most middle class people do with proper jobs. It's all very Web 2.0, where detailed knowledge or understanding isn't half as important as laymen saying the right things to excite the fan base.

I'm sure they do take themselves seriously to an extent. But in reality, they just aren't working at the level of doing serious things - like for instance the hard work of getting themselves elected, or forming deep, coherent and internally consistent knowledge and understanding (expertise, if you like), etc. What they are providing are polemics and PR stunts, for which tapping into "memes" or whatever is a vital tactic for grabbing attention and page views.

Hades:
I don't think Sargon joined Ukip for da memes. It doesn't seem like it. His interest in politics seems genuine enough and he strikes me as someone who takes himself quite seriously.

If he was that serious about politics then why join UKIP? Their influence was never much to talk about and has only been waning ever since Brexit, when they basically achieved the one thing they stood for. They were fairly irrelevant beforehand but now they have no point at all. They're just sort of the acceptable face of racism as opposed to, say, the more obviously evil EDL

Saelune:
You mean the right-winged Nazi joined a party of right-winged Nazis?

A Nazi communist? Man those as bad as Jew Nazis.

DANEgerous:

Saelune:
You mean the right-winged Nazi joined a party of right-winged Nazis?

A Nazi communist? Man those as bad as Jew Nazis.

Ex-communist.

You know? Like Mussolini was.

DANEgerous:

Saelune:
You mean the right-winged Nazi joined a party of right-winged Nazis?

A Nazi communist? Man those as bad as Jew Nazis.

It's more likely than you think.

DANEgerous:
A Nazi communist? Man those as bad as Jew Nazis.

The opposite of a Nazi is not a Communist. Not really. I am sure there are plenty of 'Communists' who would prefer all non-xyz be killed off and the remaining 'pure people' left to create a Communist paradise of racial and economic purity.

Saelune:
The opposite of a Nazi is not a Communist. Not really. I am sure there are plenty of 'Communists' who would prefer all non-xyz be killed off and the remaining 'pure people' left to create a Communist paradise of racial and economic purity.

If we mean Communism as was practiced in the old Eastern bloc, the nearest to the opposite of a Communist would probably be an anarcho-capitalist.

Agema:

Saelune:
The opposite of a Nazi is not a Communist. Not really. I am sure there are plenty of 'Communists' who would prefer all non-xyz be killed off and the remaining 'pure people' left to create a Communist paradise of racial and economic purity.

If we mean Communism as was practiced in the old Eastern bloc, the nearest to the opposite of a Communist would probably be an anarcho-capitalist.

People just think communism is the opposite of Nazis cause of all the 'Im not a Nazi yet I support them' people constantly bitch about communism.

Saelune:

Agema:

Saelune:
The opposite of a Nazi is not a Communist. Not really. I am sure there are plenty of 'Communists' who would prefer all non-xyz be killed off and the remaining 'pure people' left to create a Communist paradise of racial and economic purity.

If we mean Communism as was practiced in the old Eastern bloc, the nearest to the opposite of a Communist would probably be an anarcho-capitalist.

People just think communism is the opposite of Nazis cause of all the 'Im not a Nazi yet I support them' people constantly bitch about communism.

And because of the extremely bad relation between the Nazi's and the communists. Hitler feared and despised Communism, locked German communists in camps and later invaded the Soviet Union. You could argue the Soviets were much more Hitlers ideological enemies than the Western powers and an obsession equal with his obsession with the jews.

Hades:

Saelune:

Agema:

If we mean Communism as was practiced in the old Eastern bloc, the nearest to the opposite of a Communist would probably be an anarcho-capitalist.

People just think communism is the opposite of Nazis cause of all the 'Im not a Nazi yet I support them' people constantly bitch about communism.

And because of the extremely bad relation between the Nazi's and the communists. Hitler feared and despised Communism, locked German communists in camps and later invaded the Soviet Union. You could argue the Soviets were much more Hitlers ideological enemies than the Western powers and an obsession equal with his obsession with the jews.

Stalin started WW2 as Hitler's ally though.

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