I guess various social media platforms have banned Alex Jones?

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I'm pretty sure the things Trump has been doing were responsible for the attempts on life. They were wrong to do so but they were basing their motives on actual events and facts as opposed to Alex "I'm going to claim theres a basement full of captive children in this pizza place that has no basement" Jones

Palindromemordnilap:
I'm pretty sure the things Trump has been doing were responsible for the attempts on life. They were wrong to do so but they were basing their motives on actual events and facts as opposed to Alex "I'm going to claim theres a basement full of captive children in this pizza place that has no basement" Jones

You don't recall what the media was saying about Trump during the campaign do you? That moment where he said MS13 are animals a few weeks back and the media pretended he was calling all immigrants animals, that isn't a new thing, that's been the norm since he announced he was running for president. It wasn't "actual events and facts" they where basing their actions on.

Zontar:
image

All I get from this image is that someone thinks Alex Jones has developed vast psychic powers as a consequence of being banned from Facebook.

And there are people defending the guy who got school shooting survivors harassed. Fan tucking fastic.

I love how apparently the right can throw all the poop it wants and the Democrats had to sit there and be pelted with it, not allowed to do more than nicely ask the right to stop.

Zontar:
As should be expected, he's more popular then ever.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/7/alex-jones-take-down-makes-him-martyr-censorship-c/

You can't stop the signal, only debunk it afterwards with calm, rational discussion. But we can't have that, the odd mix of socialistic views blended with corporatism that dominates Silicon Valley wouldn't be able to survive 5 minutes being discussed with a liberal or conservative.

*Looks at article*

*Sees that it's an editorial*

Yeah, I'll wait until I see some actual facts about him before I take an increase in popularity as fact. I'm certainly gonna need more than a bare bones editorial with no actual arguments or sources backing it up. All it really proves is that he's in the news right now. Get back to me when that translates into a recognizable and provable increase in viewship.

Also, the people who swallowed his drek were never interested in rational debate. If they were, they wouldn't be watching a conspiracy theorist.

Zontar:

altnameJag:

Comparing Alex Jones to CNN or MSNBC is batshit. He's the Onion, only people are actually acting on it.

It's not batshit if we're looking at the consequences of their existence. CNN and the like are responsible for two attempts on Trump's life during the campaign. Granted they where not well thought out attempts, and that guy TYT radicalised actually killed people, but then TYT also has batshit statements (off the top of my head I recall them basically claiming the radiation from Japan coming over to the west coast was at levels that would have killed 80 million people if true).

Which is worst, words or actions? If words, what does the pen offer that makes you so afraid? If actions, why treat equal actions differently depending on the source?


Lol, cute, but maybe not the defense you think it is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_threats_against_Barack_Obama
"Burnett pleaded guilty to lesser manslaughter and gang charges in the December 2011 slayings of former soldier Michael Roark and his girlfriend Tiffany York. who were killed because they knew of the group's plans. Prosecutors sought the death penalty, but in May 2014 Peden was given a life sentence that included the possibility of parole after serving at least 30 years. Aguigui and Salmon also struck plea deals to avoid a possible death sentence and both were sentenced to life in prison without parole."

Zontar:

Saelune:
I agree we don't treat the right-wing crazies equal to the left wing crazies. If we did, then Trump wouldn't be President and people would stop blaming Antifa and defending Nazis.

Until TYT and CNN get banned from those platforms, stating that right wing crazies aren't treated equally to left wing crazies is a factual statement, and claiming they're treated better or equally is an objectively and inarguable incorrect one. The fact people outside of the incestuous corporate media don't pretend Antifa didn't do anything wrong when it commits crimes or that the 90% of people the far left claims are Nazis are not (and that the 10% of ones that are have a right to voice their opinions) isn't "defending Nazis".

Funny thing is, this attitude is why the right keeps winning the culture war despite having the media against us, hell at this point the war practically seems like the left is in a running retreat given how desperate some are, how the attitude of "no bad tactic, only bad targets" went from the fringes to mainstream amongst you. You're going to lose Quebec this year, Canada next year, Trump is going to win 2020, and it's entirely the fault of the left wing establishment.

I am so glad you have so little faith in the right's ability to do ANYTHING for themselves. It is always the will and actions of the left apparently that dictates the actions and success of the right. How little you think of the right that you say they are incapable of doing anything on their own.

You keep saying the word 'fact' and 'factual'. Insert Princess Bride meme here.

BreakfastMan:
Love to die on a hill defending a guy who believes Qanon is real.

You know, all other things aside the Qanon guy fucking struck gold. He legitimitely managed to convince thousands of complete morons that Trump is fighting a conspiracy and that with nothing more than a bunch of meaningless cryptic half sentences.

Honestly, if they really wanna find out who's behind this this they should look at who's making money off if it. With how well he managed to turn himself into a brand I'd be surprised I he isn't trying to get rich off of it somewhere. That is, presuming he isn't actually an employee of the Trump Administration doing publicity work.

PsychedelicDiamond:

BreakfastMan:
Love to die on a hill defending a guy who believes Qanon is real.

You know, all other things aside the Qanon guy fucking struck gold. He legitimitely managed to convince thousands of complete morons that Trump is fighting a conspiracy and that with nothing more than a bunch of meaningless cryptic half sentences.

Honestly, QAnon is just a couple hundred guys on Reddit who are way too deep into a LARP. Some of them might just be legitimately schizophrenic. Some of them are guaranteed trolls. The original post is 100% a troll. Either that or a chatbot that got fed a jumble of Breitbart headlines.

Vox published this good analysis of the typical QAnon demographic. Basically, there's a hard core of QAnon posters on Reddit who are responsible for 75% of the posts about QAnon. Then there's a casual group about three times larger that drops in and out and is responsible for the other 25%. Then there's a third group, ten times as large as the other two put together, that is just sitting there lurking.

The overlaps are kinda predictable. The hardcore QAnon guys overlap heavily with /r/The_Donald and /r/DrainTheSwamp, with a smaller number overlapping with a Bernie subreddit called /r/WayOfTheBern. The casual QAnon users are exactly what you'd expect a lightly-engaged alt-right poster to look like:

So it's basically another nexus for the alt-right to flock and gather and convince themselves that Trump is actually a renegade genius like Tony Stark or Rick Sanchez or some shit, putting on a wacky persona while secretly playing fifth-dimensional super-chess on a hunt for left-wing pedophiles.

It'll blow out in a while, like Pizzagate and #WhoKilledSethRich. Though there's some risk of another dangerous stunt like the guy who went into a pizza shop with an AR-15.

I cant believe he took down his own content everywhere in order to start a false flag censorship fallout. He even hired a bunch of crisis actors to have sob stories about losing their jobs at infowars over the takedowns.

Zontar:
CNN and the like are responsible for two attempts on Trump's life during the campaign.

That, my dude, is one hell of a claim you got there. Methinks you need to stop reading /r/the_donald so much...

Elijin:
I cant believe he took down his own content everywhere in order to start a false flag censorship fallout. He even hired a bunch of crisis actors to have sob stories about losing their jobs at infowars over the takedowns.

That was the leftists plan all along. Make the right look powerless by faking a right-wing conspiracy site, gain huge numbers of "rightwing" bot followers, gain control of all three branches of government, then ban the conspiracy site, making the right look weak when they can't save it. Alternatively, if they do save it, the "rightwing", controlled by leftists, now has conservative libertarians clamoring for state nationalization and control of formerly private platforms.

Just as planned. And to think they were arguing against Net Neutrality before and didn't even see the shift.

BreakfastMan:

Zontar:
CNN and the like are responsible for two attempts on Trump's life during the campaign.

That, my dude, is one hell of a claim you got there. Methinks you need to stop reading /r/the_donald so much...

I cant even find one attempt where CNN was the reason. Is this more Qanon lies? Is Zontar a Qultist?

BreakfastMan:
Love to die on a hill defending a guy who believes Qanon is real.

I mean, Qanon *is* real. Someone has to be posting, the posts aren't just appearing from nowhere.

...oh, you mean Qanon is in any way truthful or accurate? No, not that. Qanon is just making so many predictions that are so vague that by sheer volume and breadth some of them are going to work out. Which lets him claim to have some privileged information that he can hint about, but not actually reveal (because that would require narrow, concrete predictions, which he knows he can't make accurately).

We have our own Qanon-like figure in this very forum, in the guise of Adam Jensen.

Zontar:

I love it when left wing corporatists put themselves into an unwinnable situation.

Implying that the people running Google and Facebook are leftists and not like the worst kinds of cynical techno-libertarians who feel like they have the absolute right to just take whatever they can get and not feel any obligation to clean up the mess they leave in their wake. If they were leftists, they would have taken care of this years ago and not wait until there was a threat of regulation and loss of money.

He's basically TYT only more entertaining and no one got shot because of his radicalising people (the baseball shooter).

Considering that Alex Jones and PJW are self-consciously gateways into the reactionary fringe, a group which is now disproportionately responsible for mass killings in the West, I don't know if that's a reasonable take.

Now his app is (or at least for a time was) the most trending one on the app store,

Because his fans downloaded it. Booting him off YouTube and the like wasn't about eliminating his content entirely, it was about eliminating the ease with which he can promulgate his nonsense.

he's become a martyr,

These people have openly had martyr complexes for years. Martyrdom was the basis of his entire persona.

and now Ted Cruz has a justification to do what he promised back during January's hearings and bring down the hammer of the government down on these sites,

They have complete control of the federal government. If they wanted to do that they could have done it any time in the past 20 months and not needed any such "justification", and if the did need one, they would just make one up (WMDs in Afghanistan and such).

since they are not open harbours anymore, meaning they are now legally culpable for every single thing anyone posts on their sites.

Where are you getting that from? They aren't.

There's no turning back now. The beginning of the 2nd tech bubble burst we've seen over the past two weeks must have them spooked,

Not really.

image

but this is only going to make it all worst, and that's great. You just had to treat right wing crazies the same way as left wing ones,

Which left-wing crazies, exactly? Names.

you just had to apply the rules evenly, but even that was too hard. Congratulations Silicon Valley, you played yourself.

Improving their service by getting rid of a user who was abusing the service and dragging it down for everyone else isn't exactly what most people think about when they of a self-own.

renegade7:
Implying that the people running Google and Facebook are leftists and not like the worst kinds of cynical techno-libertarians who feel like they have the absolute right to just take whatever they can get and not feel any obligation to clean up the mess they leave in their wake. If they were leftists, they would have taken care of this years ago and not wait until there was a threat of regulation and loss of money.

I prefer my term: Silicon Valley Technofascists.

Considering that Alex Jones and PJW are self-consciously gateways into the reactionary fringe, a group which is now disproportionately responsible for mass killings in the West, I don't know if that's a reasonable take.

Actually they aren't anywhere near "disproportionately responsible for mass killings in the West". Even in the US (the place nearly all of their mass killings happen) they have a long way to go to catch up to the likes of Islamic terrorists. Though given the fact that 19 out of the 20 most recent mass shootings where from people who where raised in a single mother household (a stronger correlation then race, sex, religion or any other factor) I'd say there's other factors pushing people to commit this horrendous but at the end of the day uncommon crime.

Because his fans downloaded it. Booting him off YouTube and the like wasn't about eliminating his content entirely, it was about eliminating the ease with which he can promulgate his nonsense.

And yet it's turned a large part of the media (both mainstream and alternative) into effective free advertisement for his site and app.

These people have openly had martyr complexes for years. Martyrdom was the basis of his entire persona.

And now he's being legitimised. Funny how that works.

They have complete control of the federal government. If they wanted to do that they could have done it any time in the past 20 months and not needed any such "justification", and if the did need one, they would just make one up (WMDs in Afghanistan and such).

The problem is the GOP isn't a monolithic entity, what with RINOs like Paul Ryan and McCain doing everything in their power to ensure the Democrats get their way.

Where are you getting that from? They aren't.

Ted Cruz, did you not watch January's Senate hearings on social media? They can't pick and choose when to apply their rules anymore if they don't want the government to remind them who is responsible for them getting formed in the first place (since all either had targeted tax breaks or outright investment from the government during their formative years).

Not really.

Alphabet is more then just a tech company, and Facebook and Twitter aren't looking too hot right now given how much value they've lost over the past two weeks. It's not a crash but it is a rapid decline.

Which left-wing crazies, exactly? Names.

The most obvious is TYT, who peddle conspiracies that are not as crazy as Jones but equally as disconnected from reality (though you can't exactly get less connected to reality then "not at all").

Improving their service by getting rid of a user who was abusing the service and dragging it down for everyone else isn't exactly what most people think about when they of a self-own.

I wouldn't call the inevitable government intervention that takes away their ability to choose who they remove from their service something they will appreciate.

Though personally the one thing I do like about all this above all is the fact this issue has shown once and for all that socialism doesn't exist in the Western world, all we have are corporatists who use the name to trick idiots into following them.

As much as I dislike Alex Jones, censorship is a double edge sword. Soon they will possibly come for us liberals, social democrats, and etc.

1. Vague wording (basically giving them more power to do almost whatever they want)

2. Not pointing to specific videos

That being said It couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.

Gergar12:
As much as I dislike Alex Jones, censorship is a double edge sword. Soon they will possibly come for us liberals, social democrats, and etc.

1. Vague wording (basically giving them more power to do almost whatever they want)

2. Not pointing to specific videos

That being said It couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.

These two points are valid. Having clarity on this would be great.

As to liberals being taken down, yeah some should, if they are breaking TOS and lying all the time.

After some thought, Zontar and company do have a point.

This really is striking me as exactly what they wanted. A real "Don't throw me in that briar patch, Brer Fox, WHATEVER YOU DO!" moment.

They just validated that piece of shit, damn them all.

Zontar:

Palindromemordnilap:
I'm pretty sure the things Trump has been doing were responsible for the attempts on life. They were wrong to do so but they were basing their motives on actual events and facts as opposed to Alex "I'm going to claim theres a basement full of captive children in this pizza place that has no basement" Jones

You don't recall what the media was saying about Trump during the campaign do you? That moment where he said MS13 are animals a few weeks back and the media pretended he was calling all immigrants animals, that isn't a new thing, that's been the norm since he announced he was running for president. It wasn't "actual events and facts" they where basing their actions on.

Ah ah ah Zontar, you were talking about incidents that happened during his campaign run. Anything that only happened a few weeks ago clearly couldn't have influenced things that happened two years ago. Try again

Zontar:

renegade7:
Implying that the people running Google and Facebook are leftists and not like the worst kinds of cynical techno-libertarians who feel like they have the absolute right to just take whatever they can get and not feel any obligation to clean up the mess they leave in their wake. If they were leftists, they would have taken care of this years ago and not wait until there was a threat of regulation and loss of money.

I prefer my term: Silicon Valley Technofascists.

I'm confused, are you accusing them of being leftists or of being fascists? Those are mutually exclusive.

And yet it's turned a large part of the media (both mainstream and alternative) into effective free advertisement for his site and app.

I don't think there are that many people who didn't already know who Alex Jones is.

These people have openly had martyr complexes for years. Martyrdom was the basis of his entire persona.

And now he's being legitimised. Funny how that works.

Legitimized to whom? From where I'm standing it seems that most of the people who consider him to be legitimized or vindicated are people who are already his followers.

Where are you getting that from? They aren't.

Ted Cruz, did you not watch January's Senate hearings on social media? They can't pick and choose when to apply their rules anymore if they don't want the government to remind them who is responsible for them getting formed in the first place (since all either had targeted tax breaks or outright investment from the government during their formative years).

I mean specifically the claim that these companies are now legally responsible for content that is uploaded to their platforms. Legislation like that was voted in (and did not pass) in regards to specifically to copyright violation in the EU earlier this year, and the only thing that applies in the US is the legislation they used to shut down Backpage and similar, and that was over actual child predators and sex traffickers rather than any YouTube drama.

Which left-wing crazies, exactly? Names.

The most obvious is TYT, who peddle conspiracies that are not as crazy as Jones but equally as disconnected from reality (though you can't exactly get less connected to reality then "not at all").

TYT are like the epitome of centrist liberal trash and only leftist if you really stretch the definition.

I wouldn't call the inevitable government intervention that takes away their ability to choose who they remove from their service something they will appreciate.

"Inevitable"? Who's proposing any such intervention?

Intervention is going to be the consequence of unwillingness to moderate if these companies don't clean up their shit.

Smithnikov:
After some thought, Zontar and company do have a point.

This really is striking me as exactly what they wanted. A real "Don't throw me in that briar patch, Brer Fox, WHATEVER YOU DO!" moment.

They just validated that piece of shit, damn them all.

These people were going to be singing his praises no matter what happened, it's not like this made their devotion to him stronger. If anything I'd be willing to put money down that his viewership will reduce purely because some of his viewers will be too lazy to look him up outside of YouTube, because that usually is what happens when people get pushed off their preferred platform.

Smithnikov:
After some thought, Zontar and company do have a point.

This really is striking me as exactly what they wanted. A real "Don't throw me in that briar patch, Brer Fox, WHATEVER YOU DO!" moment.

They just validated that piece of shit, damn them all.

Milo tried to pull that about his pro-pedophilia bit, and it didn't work out so well. Not all press is good press.
When a comedian is booed off stage, the audience doesn't think 'well maybe he did have a point with raping and skinning dead babies to prove their mother's are cunts' the think 'get that fuckface out of here right fucking now or I'm never coming back' and that's what happened with Jones and Milo.

They'll still be popular with the baby raping demographic, but they won't be a mainstream name anymore.

Gergar12:
As much as I dislike Alex Jones, censorship is a double edge sword. Soon they will possibly come for us liberals, social democrats, and etc.

1. Vague wording (basically giving them more power to do almost whatever they want)

2. Not pointing to specific videos

That being said It couldn't have happened to a more deserving person.

I wonder if people thought when things like rape and murder were made illegal that suddenly 'Oh no, if they come for the rapists and murderers, it is a slippery slope before they come after me!'

Some things should just not be allowed. We should not be afraid to make things punishable because we think it will lead to making things punishable that should not be, we should just make sure when they try to punish people they actually shouldn't, we oppose it.

Alex Jones should be even more punished than he is. He is an intentionally malicious liar and that should not be ok.

Vendor-Lazarus:
I've never seen socialists champion capitalist values so much, except when it comes to free speech..

I don't agree with everything, or anything, that Alex Jones say. I still support his right to say it.
Just because the current soapbox is all online, and controlled by companies, with ever increasing leftist "core values", doesn't mean a political monopoly is right.The content isn't always the creator, nor rarely the company delivering the content and platform.
If people didn't like his talks, they wouldn't listen. But they do. So a "benevolent and enlightened" authority has to intervene to silence said popular speech going against their "core values".

That they all did it on the same day, and with the most proliferate social media, says volumes.
Did the same thing happens once before ..hmm?
What is it called now again, when different companies decide to all work towards a similar goal?

So nothing illegal happened? So who cares.

Youtube shutdown H3H3's podcast while it was live just because they mentioned Alex Jones' name.

They also gave them a strike.

Is that the path Youtube wants to go down now? Jesus christ.

Whitbane:
Youtube shutdown H3H3's podcast while it was live just because they mentioned Alex Jones' name.

They also gave them a strike.

Is that the path Youtube wants to go down now? Jesus christ.

It's happens here if you mention an "event that shall not be named"

Whitbane:
Youtube shutdown H3H3's podcast while it was live just because they mentioned Alex Jones' name.

They also gave them a strike.

Is that the path Youtube wants to go down now? Jesus christ.

Well, that is fucked. Especially considering the mans status as a living meme.

Whitbane:
Youtube shutdown H3H3's podcast while it was live just because they mentioned Alex Jones' name.

They also gave them a strike.

Is that the path Youtube wants to go down now? Jesus christ.

Okay did Joe get one too?

Because he seems to be supporting Jones staying on YouTube.

Also, I'd point out a common theme I've been hearing from conservative lately that you can see in this video : that Leftists companies should be regulated to protect conservative speech.

Saelune:
I wonder if people thought when things like rape and murder were made illegal that suddenly 'Oh no, if they come for the rapists and murderers, it is a slippery slope before they come after me!'

By definition, it's not murder or rape unless it is illegal, though.

However, every single time there is any change in the laws aimed at convicting rapists, hordes of people around the world claim that it's an attack on innocent men, yes.

Saelune:
We should not be afraid to make things punishable because we think it will lead to making things punishable that should not be, we should just make sure when they try to punish people they actually shouldn't, we oppose it.

Not to mention, people wanting to censor or attack innocent people don't need things like this as justifications for new laws to go through.

Thaluikhain:

Saelune:
I wonder if people thought when things like rape and murder were made illegal that suddenly 'Oh no, if they come for the rapists and murderers, it is a slippery slope before they come after me!'

By definition, it's not murder or rape unless it is illegal, though.

However, every single time there is any change in the laws aimed at convicting rapists, hordes of people around the world claim that it's an attack on innocent men, yes.

Saelune:
We should not be afraid to make things punishable because we think it will lead to making things punishable that should not be, we should just make sure when they try to punish people they actually shouldn't, we oppose it.

Not to mention, people wanting to censor or attack innocent people don't need things like this as justifications for new laws to go through.

I am just tired of this 'Oh no, they tried to fix a problem, clearly it spells the end for us all!' response. It is always 'all or nothing' instead of trying to fix something, seeing if that makes new problems, then trying to fix those new problems without bringing back the old.

Like the H3H3 thing mentioned, that sucks, but why not go 'Ok, lets continue to stop Alex Jones without also stopping people reporting on it'.

Saelune:
I am just tired of this 'Oh no, they tried to fix a problem, clearly it spells the end for us all!' response. It is always 'all or nothing' instead of trying to fix something, seeing if that makes new problems, then trying to fix those new problems without bringing back the old.

Or look at other nations, see what they've adopted and what happened. Other nations have hate speech laws and the like, and are the better for it.

Thaluikhain:

Saelune:
I am just tired of this 'Oh no, they tried to fix a problem, clearly it spells the end for us all!' response. It is always 'all or nothing' instead of trying to fix something, seeing if that makes new problems, then trying to fix those new problems without bringing back the old.

Or look at other nations, see what they've adopted and what happened. Other nations have hate speech laws and the like, and are the better for it.

It really is just a matter of 'Oh shit, I don't want to have to respect other people...' Whenever someone gets mad at this kind of stuff, me thinks they doth protest too much.

So what happened to "the internet is the public square, and you have to let people speak" argument from a few months back?

Thaluikhain:
Or look at other nations, see what they've adopted and what happened. Other nations have hate speech laws and the like, and are the better for it.

Because the UK is clearly in such a happy place right now, socially. And because Europe has completely gotten rid of its right wing problem and doesn't have massive issues with it at the moment?

The problem with hate speech laws is that generally, they don't actually involve the creation of a new crime. They just arbitrarily vary the severity of punishment for existing ones (incitement to commit crimes, for instance) based on which boxes the victim ticks, inevitably increasing social discontent due to the inequality of justice this then provides. And these still have no impact on the rights and responsibilities of major tech organisations (except for the incredibly authoritarian requirements to take down offensive videos within such a short span of time that you are likely to cull the innocent with the guilty).

Catnip1024:
So what happened to "the internet is the public square, and you have to let people speak" argument from a few months back?

Usual response about not having to provide platforms.

Catnip1024:
Because the UK is clearly in such a happy place right now, socially. And because Europe has completely gotten rid of its right wing problem and doesn't have massive issues with it at the moment?

Because I said nations with hate speech laws had totally solved social or right wing problems, rather than being better off for having those laws?

Catnip1024:
So what happened to "the internet is the public square, and you have to let people speak" argument from a few months back?

Thaluikhain:
Or look at other nations, see what they've adopted and what happened. Other nations have hate speech laws and the like, and are the better for it.

Because the UK is clearly in such a happy place right now, socially. And because Europe has completely gotten rid of its right wing problem and doesn't have massive issues with it at the moment?

The problem with hate speech laws is that generally, they don't actually involve the creation of a new crime. They just arbitrarily vary the severity of punishment for existing ones (incitement to commit crimes, for instance) based on which boxes the victim ticks, inevitably increasing social discontent due to the inequality of justice this then provides. And these still have no impact on the rights and responsibilities of major tech organisations (except for the incredibly authoritarian requirements to take down offensive videos within such a short span of time that you are likely to cull the innocent with the guilty).

Alex Jones had his chances and then some. Everyone deserves a chance to prove they are worth listening to, and Alex Jones failed with flying colors.

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