So, Trayvon Martin. (Updated 9/10: From the duh and oops departments)

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Tyler Perry:

farson135:

evilneko:
Hey, I've been saying that SPD dun fucked up for several pages now. :/

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that the two of us were the only ones. I meant that it is good that another person is practicing moderation.

I've said that in multiple threads. I don't know what the hell "practicing moderation" means in this instance. It is possible to simultaneously hold the beliefs that the Sanford PD screwed up royally AND that George Zimmerman is criminally culpable.

What it means is that you have to realize that there is still a lot of information to gather and we should not rush to judgment. Especially since the information available is most confusing and contradictory at best.

Watching Hardball right now, an NBC guy's (Michael Isikoff) been going over all of Zimmerman's calls to police about suspicious people. He says there doesn't seem to be a pattern of racially-motivated calls. In most calls he didn't volunteer information on race until the police asked.

There's probably a print article somewhere about it. I'll take a look.

Edit: Seems it was only 6 calls released? http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Police-release-more-calls-made-by-George-Zimmerman/-/1637132/9539980/-/te981iz/-/index.html

Also, came across this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/03/nbc-news-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-call_n_1401167.html?ref=media

I can understand editing down the call for the broadcast stations and their half-hour news shows, that doesn't excuse using the same version for the hour long shows on cable.

Well, this one's interesting: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

Highlights include how police broke the news to Martin's father, and what they told him.

evilneko:
SNIP

I like you, you try to keep to the released facts, instead of going all conspiracy nut on us.
>.>
<.<
Reading your links.

evilneko:
I can understand editing down the call for the broadcast stations and their half-hour news shows, that doesn't excuse using the same version for the hour long shows on cable.

Neko, Neko, Neko, how readily you assume that the mainstream media is there to report news rather than manufacture narratives that journalists can believe in(and get paid for with ratings.) The call was edited that way in order to portray Zimmerman in the worst light possible! RACIST GUN NUT KILLS INNOCENT BLACK ALL-AMERICAN CHILD is precisely the story they were aiming for, mainly because "black thug gets killed by police" is so common, uninteresting, expected, and...let's face it...for certain people here...depressing, that no one can make ratings and viewers out of it.

But because the story was a Man Bites Dog event in this day and age, everyone feverishly worked to make sure this image was stuck in your head:

image

To coin a popular phrase, you didn't actually see or hear the implications, but your brain did. This is Defining Media Narratives 101.

Smagmuck_:

evilneko:
SNIP

I like you, you try to keep to the released facts, instead of going all conspiracy nut on us.
>.>
<.<
Reading your links.

I've made commentary before though. I have serious doubts about Zimmerman's version of the story. There's not really much to go on though. The screams on the 911 tape could be either one of them, or even both. Zimmerman's injuries--if he even has them--are far from obvious on the police tape. Why did he run after Martin in the first place? And where's the blood that should've been highly visible on his clothes?

And that's just Zimmerman. I have other questions about the cops.

Also if Zimmerman and Treyvon encountered each other before the attack happened, why didn't he identify himself as the neighborhood watch?

evilneko:
Well, this one's interesting: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

Highlights include how police broke the news to Martin's father, and what they told him.

I love how they editorialize it. We know that it was dark and raining out, yet we get this:

It was Trayvon, dead at the scene - his eyes rolled back, a tear on his cheek, saliva coming from his mouth.

Luke Gomez:
Also if Zimmerman and Treyvon encountered each other before the attack happened, why didn't he identify himself as the neighborhood watch?

Most likely Tray was high as a kite, wait for the toxicology report (which The Honorable Mr. Crump is no doubt paying lots of people to sit on for as long as possible, given his previous history of marijuana possession and use, not to mention sale.) Note also that according to Zimmerman's 911 call, Tray was staring at him while holding his hand at his waist (no doubt he used the Arizona Iced Tea can to simulate either a gun or a glorious confidence in the size of his genitals, never let it be said thugs aren't creative.) If a young, unknown, unfamiliar thug was staring at you in that manner, would you say a damn thing to him?

evilneko:
I've made commentary before though. I have serious doubts about Zimmerman's version of the story.

And I don't, because it's the only story that accurately explains the evidence at hand.

There's not really much to go on though. The screams on the 911 tape could be either one of them, or even both.

So what. The actual injuries-aside from the hole in the chest-are all on Zimmerman.

Zimmerman's injuries--if he even has them--are far from obvious on the police tape.

AHEM, muhfugga: The mainstream media slow walkback on that has already begun, thanks to the Daily Caller harping on it. Note in the video at the link that they originally called TWO ambulances, one to treat, one to take him to the hospital, but cancelled the second one (GZ probably realized he didn't want to be confined to a bed when the story broke in the middle of a high-minority neighborhood-gangs tend to take revenge for their homies guilty or innocent, and Trayvon had a lot of older black men as friends on Twitter.)

Why did he run after Martin in the first place? And where's the blood that should've been highly visible on his clothes?

The dispatcher was asking him to keep them posted on his whereabouts, when you're on the phone and trying to observe someone who may or may not have a weapon walking around the houses of friends and neighbors you may or may not want to see get robbed or shot that night, you tend to ignore "best procedure" and move without thinking. And the actual-factual police report does indeed say that his jacket was covered in grass and he was bleeding from the nose and back of the head when they found him: again, the first thing any paramedics would do would be to clean up the blood in order to assess the state of the wounds and check for fractures or tissue damage. Having actually WORKED in an emergency room, I'm a little familiar with the standard procedures.

As for the blood, most was probably absorbed by Tray's unseasonably warm hoodie-he was a thin kid, probably not a big water drinker in that Florida humidity, lightly dehydrated so there wasn't much time to bleed on Zimmerman before he immediately pushed his sorry carcass off, as would anyone who had just been getting their head pounded into the concrete.

Any further objections, Mr. Wright?

farson135:
But it would not help him in the court room. A prosecutor would rip him apart for that.

So what? Attempt is attempt. Regardless of what is the case, it has the people talking about it in confusion considering there is no evidence of wounds out in the open.

...and someone else showed what sort of maybe looks like a gash on his head.

I would really like to see that in particular, considering a gash would be a rather serious wound.

The problem is that why would his lawyer and father repeat it? I mean if he was lying his lawyer should be doing damage control not digging a bigger hole.

Still doesn't mean they wouldn't. They had a friend of the family go on TV to explain that "fucking coon-ass" is a term of endearment. If they are desperate enough, they will keep digging that whole to try and be consistent in the story they put out at least. Worse explanations have been out there, so with the lack of evidence I've seen so far and rather the evidence to the contrary, that's quite frankly what I consider to be more likely.

If Zimmerman's statement is correct then SYG is irrelevant because Zimmerman did not have the ability to retreat.

And if it isn't? You're still arguing as if the testimony of the shooter was to be considered the truth. I don't think that's how it works, even with self-defense. There needs to be evidence to support those claims. I talked a little about forensics. If there is smoke and powder-residue on Trayvon and the bullet entered at an angle from below, for example, then that would definitely help corroborate his story. Which is why we need to wait for more information to be released.

Also Martin may have considered himself in danger but the problem is that he no reason to attack Zimmerman. In fact I have stated that he should have hung the phone on his girlfriend and CALLED THE POLICE.

But that's still conjecture, too. We don't know if Martin attacked him without reason. Zimmerman might have pulled his gun on him, at which point Martin got scared and attacked, totally justified at that point.

Just washing off his face with some water would have cleaned him up.

Not at all. He would still have bruises, stitches from the medics dealing with his gash, some kind of bandaging or at least a sizeable band-aid, there would definitely be something to see. Wounds don't vanish like that, not even when people stitch you up and wash water over them.

Head wounds are a problem. Last summer I cut my head open pretty badly but the wound stopped bleeding before I got to the doctor. Basically you cannot put a patch on parts of the head because of all the hair so they considered just shaving my head. Zimmerman may have had a cut but it stopped bleeding and maybe they decided just to leave it. A mild cut on the head in a controlled environment is not particularly harmful.

Erm, actually, you still usually stitch up head wounds. You just need the proper technique, single knots or a variation thereof, to avoid cutting off the circulation. The thing is, the scalp is perfused very strongly, which is why even not particularly harmful wounds tend to bleed profusely. And even if his wound had stopped bleeding, it was supposed to be a gash. I'd see something on those tapes.

The only reason Zimmerman was not arrested that night is simple. 1. He is white 2. He killed a black male 3. His father is/was a judge. Zimmerman is a child preditor and stalker, he is a racist bigot and he is a MURDERER. He murdered a child in cold blood. For all the Zimmerman supporters, just think, this could have been and could very well be your child one day. Personally, I do not believe there was an in depth altercation. I believe Zimmerman was stalking this innocent child, I believe when he lost him he became angry because he now had to chase, I believe he confronted Trayvon and asked him (like Trayvons girfriend states) "what are you doing around here" and I truly believe Trayvon answered "why are you following me" I believe Trayvon tried to continue his walk home and Zimmerman either grabbed him or pushed him. I believe Trayvon, if he was fighting, was trying to get away from Zimmerman. Zimmerman is a child preditor and a CHILD MURDERER. I hope justice will be served and he goes to jail, then he will have all the time in the world to question anyone of ethnicity of thier actions, let's see how far he will get with that since he has such a problem with people of ethnicity especially blacks. Life as he knew it is OVER!!!
He needs to ROT IN JAIL and then HELL!!!!

StefanieX:
The only reason Zimmerman was not arrested that night is simple. 1. He is white

Wrong, he is biracial

StefanieX:
2. He killed a black male

Do you have any proof that Martins race made it that Zimmerman wasn't arrested?

StefanieX:
3. His father is/was a judge.

I'll give you that one, it very possible.

I'm honestly sick of hearing about this. Until all the evidence is gathered, it will just be a case of the media saying "Zimmerman bad, Martin good! Look at these pictures!".

Until detailed records of *everything* are presented in a organized and unbiased manner, I'm not taking sides. My general "at first glance" response is that Zimmerman went a bit overboard, but was justified in using force if the claim that Martin struck him first is true. If it was proven that Zimmerman started the violence, I'll change my opinion. Until then, I honestly don't care.

It all depends on exactly how the confrontation went down. Until there is reliable data on that, this is nothing but a waste of space on news programs.

SirDoom:

Until detailed records of *everything* are presented in a organized and unbiased manner, I'm not taking sides.

Yes, quite.

But then, lots of people furiously debating have already made their minds up. They're not really interested in detailed records of everything presented in an organised and unbiased manner.

Skeleon:
I would really like to see that in particular, considering a gash would be a rather serious wound.

Not that serious. Anyway it has already been showed on this forum but here it is again-

image

You can watch the enhanced video here- http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/03/enhanced-video-zimmerman-in-police-station-appears-to-show-injuries/

Still doesn't mean they wouldn't.

No, but it makes it a hell of a lot less likely that they would.

And if it isn't?

Then it still have nothing to do with SYG because it is not self defense.

You're still arguing as if the testimony of the shooter was to be considered the truth.

Because aside from speculation that is all we have. Sure I could go under the assumption that Blablahb is right and Zimmerman just pulled a gun and shot him for no reason or I could go with the stories we do have.

But that's still conjecture, too. We don't know if Martin attacked him without reason. Zimmerman might have pulled his gun on him, at which point Martin got scared and attacked, totally justified at that point.

Maybe (in fact I have said as much earlier) but the girlfriend's story does not back that up and neither does Zimmerman's. Hell, if Zimmerman pulled his gun at first it seems odd that one or the other would have been screaming for help as if being beaten.

Erm, actually, you still usually stitch up head wounds.

Not if it is shallow enough. Mine was and they just put a bandage around it.

StefanieX:
So sad the comments you are making about an innocent child. So sad how you really feel about the case. You will burn in Hell right along with Zimmerman.
Question, what do you have against African American males? Are they taking too many of your White women or is it the fact that you try to be like them and just can't. What is it, please let me know. Is it that a Black man is President. It may be the fact that they are smarter than you. Do tell!!!! Oh it may be the fact that they make more money than you. I am curious to know what Whites have against Blacks especially black males. Why don't all the prejudice, racist bigots go live on an island together and that way there will be nothing to worry about. Face the Facts.... Whites are not the Majority anymore... your race is dying out. I really hate stooping to your level but watch the slick and sly comment regarding Trayvon.... JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON

this is a troll post if i ever did see. the bold points are almost laughable. yes burn in hell indeed. if seeking the truth and wishing for justice is worth eternal damnation then quite a few good people re going to hell.

the truth is WE DON'T KNOW all the details most of our most damning details have been released by sources with obvious bias one way or the other.

and it's funny if this post were anything but a troll you would look like quite the hypocrite. this is not an issue about black or white, or Obama. this is an issue about a boy who was killed in an altercation that we do not know the full details about. Martin's race, Zimmerman's race and Obama's have nothing to do with this. (but if you must know, Obama is as white as Zimmerman is. they both have a white parent. both are biracial)

OT: what needs to be done is a full investigation. and that is already underway. all we can do is wait for the results. do NOT trust anything put out by the family of the victim or the accused. they are slanted for their own purposes. we need to just sit tight, relax, and wait for the investigation to run it's course.

StefanieX:
So sad the comments you are making about an innocent child. So sad how you really feel about the case. You will burn in Hell right along with Zimmerman.

Is this comment to be directed at me?

StefanieX:
Question, what do you have against African American males?

Nothing.

StefanieX:
Are they taking too many of your White women or is it the fact that you try to be like them and just can't.

...what? There are plenty of White women in this world, I'm not worried about a couple of interracial couples.

StefanieX:
What is it, please let me know. Is it that a Black man is President.

Funny, last I checked he was biracial

StefanieX:
It may be the fact that they are smarter than you. Do tell!!!! Oh it may be the fact that they make more money than you.

Like any other race, there are those who are wealthier and/or smarter than me and there are those who are less wealth and/or less intelligent than me.

StefanieX:
I am curious to know what Whites have against Blacks especially black males. Why don't all the prejudice, racist bigots go live on an island together and that way there will be nothing to worry about.F

For someone who is so concerned about prejudice, you really are coming off as prejudice.

StefanieX:
Face the Facts.... Whites are not the Majority anymore... your race is dying out.

What's your source?

StefanieX:
I really hate stooping to your level but watch the slick and sly comment regarding Trayvon.... JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON

The courts will determine whats "just".

UPDATE: New timestamped 911 call! At this time, some of the media is actually being responsible and making corrections to its highly-skewed rating grab of an initial interpretation of events. In that spirit of magnanimity, I'm going to make a pictorial public service announcement in case anyone's keeping score:

image

Top left are the most recent photos, I'm guessing that at this stage of his life he was hitting the drugs a bit too hard to be as affable, sneaky, and bright-eyed as his bottom photos attest. Stay off the drugs, kids, as even when they don't ruin you, they DO make you temporarily look like a guy what don't care. Had Tray been not high and looked like he did on the bottom pics, he would have drawn considerably less suspicion.

Also, there's a strong possibility that it was his girlfriend who dissuaded him from GOING THE FUCK HOME while GZ was still on the phone with 911 operators, having lost TM after a short jog. She called at 7:12:

image

And I'm betting that given Tray's previous record, her advice was along the lines of "Kick his ass like they say you do and send me the pictures!" (PROTIP: If you're on drugs, and you're known for being a fighter, and you have someone following you, don't ask your starry-eyed girlfriend for advice.)

The Wagist site is being charitable and assuming that her testimony makes sense. I say the reason she spent a night in the hospital after Tray died was guilt over having goaded him on, not just grief.

Again, for the record, I believe no statements coming from Benjamin Crump or editorialized by collegiate journalists, only sworn statements by witnesses, raw video and audio, and official on-scene police reports. Now that Trayvon's name is trademarked by his mother, even if they lose the case the family can drag it out in the media as loooooooooooong as possible for generous donations from concerned charitable citizens contributing to a Justice Fund, though I'd advise against a wrongful death suit if any criminal trial goes south.

Zimmerman at least has quite a bit of standing to sue NBC and affiliates for the disgustingly and maliciously edited 911 calls.

Hm. I see people have already jumped on StefanieX. Guess that means I don't have to. She's certainly not helping. I suggest just ignoring her though. Can we apply the term "Dittohead" to her even though it originally referred to Limbaugh's legion of unthinking sheeple? Or do we have another term for unthinking sheeple of a leftward persuasion?

I view the enhanced videos with skepticism. The color seems off, and they never seem to show the whole thing without covering up some portion of it. There's clear artifacting in stills. The video they claim is sharper is also still lower-res than what appears to be a video posted by the Sanford PD itself, here. In the original video there doesn't seem to be any sign of this gash until about ~21-23 seconds, even when his head is turned at the same angle to the camera. Finally, there's this still I took from a video posted by ABC:

image

This image was screencapped from GMA's website.

And it's not just before that it doesn't seem to be there. Where is it after, as well? I even downloaded the video and slowed it down to watch it at 10% speed.

All of this leads me to being very skeptical about these "enhanced videos" showing "clear signs" of injury. It ain't all that clear.

Alright, here's a question. Do you people honestly believe that the officers on the scene, the witness who saw the altercation, the lead investigator, his neighbor, and his parents are ALL lying about his injuries? Because at this point that's what you have to believe in order to think his injuries didn't occur.

Eh, let Neko have his/her/its say. I believe the angry resolve is weakening. Remember that this is a person who thinks the MEDIA accounts are what validate reality, so I expect to see the same slow-walk pushback as the various news outlets make it acceptable to believe the truth assume that maybe the testimony of police officers, paramedics, and a boring, nerdy insurance and loan reviewer who had most of his income tied up in his house, good relationships with his neighbors, and very little reason to get into altercations that would require moving from the neighborhood. (I'd expect that most nerds have experienced the casual cruelty of enough football players to at least pull for ol' Citizen Zim for the sake of that nerdy tribal loyalty, but apparently empathy only goes to one race if they cry loud enough. Show some cholo love, people! Hell, learn what the word 'mestizo' means!) This is about as honorable a conclusion as you can expect from someone whose never been forced to make conclusions from raw data, instead of having it journo-fed to them.

For my part, as I am required to shave my head close in my line of work, I can attest to the fact that when even VERY slightly grown back, short hairs are known for both reflecting light and concealing even large welts like Zimmerman had very effectively. Hence the fact that the welts are easier to view straight on(looks like he still had some swelling there) versus different angles. Risk of concussion would be what I'd be most worried about.

Myrmecodon:
Eh, let Neko have his/her/its say. I believe the angry resolve is weakening. Remember that this is a person who thinks the MEDIA accounts are what validate reality, so I expect to see the same slow-walk pushback as the various news outlets make it acceptable to believe the truth assume that maybe the testimony of police officers, paramedics, and a boring, nerdy insurance and loan reviewer who had most of his income tied up in his house, good relationships with his neighbors, and very little reason to get into altercations that would require moving from the neighborhood. (I'd expect that most nerds have experienced the casual cruelty of enough football players to at least pull for ol' Citizen Zim for the sake of that nerdy tribal loyalty, but apparently empathy only goes to one race if they cry loud enough. Show some cholo love, people! Hell, learn what the word 'mestizo' means!) This is about as honorable a conclusion as you can expect from someone whose never been forced to make conclusions from raw data, instead of having it journo-fed to them.

For my part, as I am required to shave my head close in my line of work, I can attest to the fact that when even VERY slightly grown back, short hairs are known for both reflecting light and concealing even large welts like Zimmerman had very effectively. Hence the fact that the welts are easier to view straight on(looks like he still had some swelling there) versus different angles. Risk of concussion would be what I'd be most worried about.

Are you the same Myrmecodon who's described this case as "a straightforward case of justified niggerdeath" on another internet forum? Your "style" of "writing" is certainly very similar.

somewhat related to this thread, just thought people would like to see...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/05/george-zimmerman-supporter_n_1406071.html?ref=black-voices

I've been called racist*, that must mean I'm winning!

*-anyone winning an argument with a liberal.

Don't go getting yourselves banned on my account, people. While I'm on this site I'll graciously keep the language in the light R zone and the trolling to a minimum. Everyone in the whole damn world is racist to some degree, I'm just the one that's currently drinking your milkshake.

Matter of fact, it's about time for another sip...it looks like some of the arresting officers were actually targets of George Zimmerman's anti-racist campaigns!

In late 2010 and early 2011 George Zimmerman, the Hispanic Sanford, Fla., man who shot and killed 17-year-old black teen Trayvon Martin, publicly demanded discipline in a race-related beating case for at least two of the police officers who cleared him after the Feb. 26 altercation, according to records obtained by The Daily Caller....

...On Dec. 4, 2010, Justin Collison, the son of Sanford Police Department Lt. Chris Collison, was involved in a bar fight at The Wet Spot bar in Sanford. During the fight, which moved from indoors to outdoors, the younger Collison struck Ware.

Ware suffered a concussion, and paramedics took him to the hospital shortly after police arrived on the scene. Collison was not arrested or charged, even though an onlooker had video evidence of his actions.

No arrest was made and no action taken for weeks. Documents and emails now show police officers and officials from the office of the State Attorney operated with extreme caution because Collison's father was a high-ranking law enforcement officer.

In the final days of 2010, an Orlando television station aired the video footage of Justin Collison beating Ware. Collison turned himself in six days later, on Jan. 3, 2011. He agreed to pay for Ware's medical bills and make donations to nonprofit organizations, including the NAACP.

What the hell does the NAACP need to insert itself into these local disputes for? Pay the guy you beat; you pay the NAACP and you just encourage them to insert their people into every situation, turning small and tragic everyday events into media circuses just for the publicity and exposure...OH SNAP.

Every Sunday, according to his family, Zimmerman would stroll through Sanford's black neighborhoods handing out the fliers demanding justice for Sherman Ware, and calling for the police to hold their own officials accountable. Zimmerman would also place the fliers on people's cars outside churches.

"I challenge you to stand together and to have our voices heard, and to hold accountable all of those officers, and officials whom let this atrocious attack pass unpunished until the media revealed it," one of the fliers reads in part. "This animal could have attacked anyone of us, our children or loved ones in his alcohol fueled rage."

The officers whom Zimmerman targeted for accountability in the Sherman Ware incident were all cleared by the Seminole County Sheriff's investigation, despite Zimmerman's repeated accusations that police gave kid-glove treatment to a white officer's son who beat a defenseless, homeless black man.

But 14 months later, at least two of the same officers investigated the shooting death of Trayvon Martin - and cleared Zimmerman - even though his voice was the loudest calling for their punishment in the Ware case.

One of those officers was Timothy Smith. According to a police incident report from the scene of the Feb. 26 shooting, Officer Smith handcuffed Zimmerman and transported him to the police station. Another was Sergeant Anthony Raimondo, who was on scene with Smith and other local officers.

And it's at this point I turn my hate-tention to all you high school and collegiate ponces trying to weasel your way out of any empathy for those in responsibility by saying WELL HURR HURR THE COPS DONE FUCKED UP LIKE THEY ALWAYS DO, LOL. They could have railroaded Zimmerman's nosy busybody mestizo ass in a heartbeat and gotten nothing but props from the black community in Sanford.

But hey, because evidence is evidence, the right thing is the right thing, and the law's the law, they let him go on the basis of his story checking out, because they're not bloodthirsty ignorant layabouts who think getting rid of the Designated Enemy in a colossal Two Minutes Hate is the highest goal and experience in life.

Of course, you could just counter by saying that now whites and Hispanics, even the ones who CLAIM to be on the Good Color side by organizing massive awareness-raising and flyer-placing campaigns, have now secretly teamed up in their conspiracy to make sure black people always get the short end of the law, but if you believe that, you really think that promising riots and calling for GZ's head is the best policy? Do you really want to make your imagined alliance a reality? Have you seen the racial map of Miami?

image
Blue is black, red is white, and tan is Latino. I know which side I'd rather be on!

Myrmecodon:
snip

Archroy:
Are you the same Myrmecodon who's described this case as "a straightforward case of justified niggerdeath" on another internet forum? Your "style" of "writing" is certainly very similar.

I'm curious about this too.

farson135:
image

I still don't see any blood, dirt or grass stains on the back of Zimmermans jacket, as you would expect if he had been fighting for his life with Martin on top of him.

I do not see any tears, stretches in Zimmerman's clothing, or any other sign Zimmerman was in a life threatening physical altercation.

farson135:
Not if it is shallow enough. Mine was and they just put a bandage around it.

Point being that they do not leave serious head wounds open, with no bandage as we see in the video.

Myrmecodon:
for generous donations from concerned charitable citizens contributing to a Justice Fund, though I'd advise against a wrongful death suit if any criminal trial goes south.

You don't appear to know that the 'Stand your ground' laws protects Zimmerman civil cases.

Why are you not mentioning that Zimmerman only got off serious charges because he agreed to seek help for his alcohol problem?

Can I claim, because of those past charges, that Zimmerman was drunk and looking for a fight when he killed Martin?

Because if we judge Martin by his past, we also have to trawl through Zimmerman's past and judge him by his actions of domestic abuse, assaulting a police officer, alcohol dependency, 'batman complex', etc.

PS I really hope I get to meet you professionally!

Fi

Zekksta:

Myrmecodon:
snip

Archroy:
Are you the same Myrmecodon who's described this case as "a straightforward case of justified niggerdeath" on another internet forum? Your "style" of "writing" is certainly very similar.

I'm curious about this too.

Then feel free to indulge your curiosities with Google and make a thread asking why I'm so hatey among the haters on the ecumenical hate forum. Terms, forums, and posters may change, the facts do not.

But if you think an intra-forum squabble will do in lieu of an argument here, think again. The out-of-context quote (WHY YOU MALICIOUSLY EDIT MY CALLS TO MAKE ME SOUND MORE RACIST?) was me chastising an anti-Semite for assuming the worst about Zimmerman based on nothing but his last name, and I've been doing nothing since then but gloating as the facts came in. Y'all seem to be well and good with displays of overt bigotry, given all that I've seen here in a mere 18 pages, but stupid and inaccurate bigotry is something I just don't approve of, and must correct with a quickness.

Whether among racists or race denialists, the truth helps all of us out.

I just want to say that the media coverage of this has been disgraceful for the most part. As journalists we are called to report the truth and minimize harm, both of these principles have been violated by numerous media sources.

Myrmecodon:
Fi

Zekksta:

Myrmecodon:
snip

Archroy:
Are you the same Myrmecodon who's described this case as "a straightforward case of justified niggerdeath" on another internet forum? Your "style" of "writing" is certainly very similar.

I'm curious about this too.

Then feel free to indulge your curiosities with Google and make a thread asking why I'm so hatey among the haters on the ecumenical hate forum. Terms, forums, and posters may change, the facts do not.

But if you think an intra-forum squabble will do in lieu of an argument here, think again. The out-of-context quote (WHY YOU MALICIOUSLY EDIT MY CALLS TO MAKE ME SOUND MORE RACIST?) was me chastising an anti-Semite for assuming the worst about Zimmerman based on nothing but his last name, and I've been doing nothing since then but gloating as the facts came in. Y'all seem to be well and good with displays of overt bigotry, given all that I've seen here in a mere 18 pages, but stupid and inaccurate bigotry is something I just don't approve of, and must correct with a quickness.

Whether among racists or race denialists, the truth helps all of us out.

Yeah that still doesn't answer the question I actually asked, it's just a spiel, lots of people can have the same user names, I was just asking if it was you.

I've already said I'm waiting to see what the ruling in this case will be since I don't know the intricate details, and I'm sure that a case so heavily in the public eye now wouldn't dare fabricate or remove evidence at this point and will deliver a fair ruling, or that's what I keep telling myself.

Seekster:
I just want to say that the media coverage of this has been disgraceful for the most part. As journalists we are called to report the truth and minimize harm, both of these principles have been violated by numerous media sources.

Are you a journalist?

I agree 100%. It's pretty disgusting to warp stories and twist facts to fit an agenda, regardless of what the agenda is.

TechNoFear:
I still don't see any blood

Depending on the level of bleeding the EMTs could have simply cleaned what little there was up.

dirt or grass stains on the back of Zimmermans jacket, as you would expect if he had been fighting for his life with Martin on top of him.

Not if the ground was dry. It is still "Spring" here but it is also hot as hell. I do not know what the weather is in Florida but it is a possibility.

I do not see any tears, stretches in Zimmerman's clothing, or any other sign Zimmerman was in a life threatening physical altercation.

Because he was not on the concrete but on the grass (at least according to his testimony).

Point being that they do not leave serious head wounds open, with no bandage as we see in the video.

The bandage was only because we were in a high dust/dirt environment. A scrape or mild cut (as it appears to be in the photo) would not be that serious. However any hits to the head are disorientating and continued attacks can become more serious.

You don't appear to know that the 'Stand your ground' laws protects Zimmerman civil cases.

You are working under the assumption that this has anything to do with SYG.

PS I really hope I get to meet you professionally!

So I am apparently not the only one you feel the need to threaten. Not sure if I should be glad or more disturbed.

Aaaand a FUN new development.

After the first CNN enhancement in which they pushed coons without ever pushing coons, it appears they are now pushing COLD.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-enhances-zimmerman-911-call-again-and-reporter-now-doubts-racial-slur-used/

"Now it does sound less like that racial slur. ... From listening in this room, and this is a state-of-the-art room, it doesn't sound like that slur anymore. It sounds like ... we're hearing the swear word at first and then the word 'cold.' And the reason some say that would be relevant, is because it was unseasonably cold in Florida that night and raining."

farson135:
Not if the ground was dry. It is still "Spring" here but it is also hot as hell. I do not know what the weather is in Florida but it is a possibility.

According to the police report it was raining and Zimmerman's back was 'wet and covered in grass'.

Yet his jacket looks spotless.

Head wounds, especially those caused by impacts, tend to bleed profusely. Can you see any blood on Zimmerman's jacket?

http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2012/04/69081607-29132322.pdf

farson135:

I do not see any tears, stretches in Zimmerman's clothing, or any other sign Zimmerman was in a life threatening physical altercation.

Because he was not on the concrete but on the grass (at least according to his testimony).

Now you are lust making stuff up...

How did Martin smash Zimmerman's head into the concrete/sidewalk if the altercation only took place on the grass?

My point is that; in fights, especially those taking place on the ground, people grab each others clothing to assert force on the other combatant.

This tends to stretch or tear clothing.

There is no sigh of this on Zimmerman.

farson135:
You are working under the assumption that this has anything to do with SYG.

Yes, because both the prosecutor Wolfinger and police chief Lee both stated SYG was the reason Zimmerman was not charged.

Also Zimmerman's lawyer Sonner has stated the intention to use SYG.

farson135:
So I am apparently not the only one you feel the need to threaten. Not sure if I should be glad or more disturbed.

I do not make threats, just promises...

TechNoFear:
According to the police report it was raining and Zimmerman's back was 'wet and covered in grass'.

Yet his jacket looks spotless.

So the police report says it but you categorically deny it.

Wet probably would not show up. Grass could be wiped off.

Head wounds, especially those caused by impacts, tend to bleed profusely.

Not necessarily. There are a number of factors that have to be taken into account.

Can you see any blood on Zimmerman's jacket?

Can I see any blood on a red and black jacket? What do you think? Aren't you an LEO?

Now you are lust making stuff up...

Uh huh.

How did Martin smash Zimmerman's head into the concrete/sidewalk if the altercation only took place on the grass?

image

Imagine the body on the grass and the head on the sidewalk.

Could you really not figure that out or were you hoping I could not?

My point is that; in fights, especially those taking place on the ground, people grab each others clothing to assert force on the other combatant.

This tends to stretch or tear clothing.

There is no sigh of this on Zimmerman.

Wrong. According to Zimmerman's statement he was pushed and punched. A standard attack. No grabbing, ripping, or tearing.

Yes, because both the prosecutor Wolfinger and police chief Lee both stated SYG was the reason Zimmerman was not charged.

Once again they can say what they want to cover their asses but that does not make it true.

Also Zimmerman's lawyer Sonner has stated the intention to use SYG.

He could also argue that Zimmerman is an alien from the planet Neptune and as such had to be treated with diplomatic immunity. That argument would have as much relevance. His lawyer can claim whatever the hell he wants but that does not make it the case.

Once again what would have been different if Florida was a Duty to Retreat State? Little to nothing, because the duty to retreat extends only to the point that retreat is impossible. If Zimmerman's statement is true then he no longer had the ability to retreat.

I do not make threats, just promises...

Never come to my home or even try to make contact with my family. I do not take such promises lightly and trust that any attack on my family, my friends, or me will not earn you a right to moderation from me. That is a promise.

ravenshrike:
Aaaand a FUN new development.

After the first CNN enhancement in which they pushed coons without ever pushing coons, it appears they are now pushing COLD.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cnn-enhances-zimmerman-911-call-again-and-reporter-now-doubts-racial-slur-used/

I'm still waiting for someone besides me to come and say "He said CUNTS!"

The audio's just too unclear to make out what he said. I kinda doubt it was "cold" even in late February. Especially considering Zimmerman's from...er...one of the Carolinas. But hey, Wunderground is an awesome site, let's see if I can find what the temperature was. Between 6-8pm, it was around 63 degrees with some very light rain (most likely just sprinkles, at most) and a light breeze.

Nah, it's not cold. At least not "fucking" cold anyway.

It's "cunts" I tells ya.

As for injuries, we only have Zimmerman and the police report (and I do view the report, and the entire SPD, with suspicion, based on how they've utterly mishandled the case). An ambulance for Zimmerman was canceled, showing his injuries to be very minor. I am highly skeptical of the broken nose. That would be rather painful, and I doubt Zimmerman would have gone along with calling off the ambulance. Adrenaline only lasts so long.

Do they have medical records? Don't know, his lawyer sure isn't saying. In an interview with Piers Morgan all he said was "We'll present all the evidence at trial."

Well I sure hope they do. I hope there's a lot more than what we've seen because if not, I'd expect a hung jury, which is probably the worst possible outcome for everyone involved.

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