Who's ready for a... $5 trillion budget deficit?

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arbane:
Most likely.

My spiritual gurus in the Church of the SubGenius compare having your first good job to being a dog on a very long leash - yeah, they let you run for a bit, but then they YANK that leash back with enough force that you NEVER forget you have that least EVER AGAIN. ("If you're going to work for the Conspiracy, hope they use the Leash Trick early.")

I'm a bit sad I won't get to watch when he hits the end of his leash, because I'm a bad person. But we can rest easy in the knowledge that however he fails, he certainly won't acknowledge it's HIS fault, and it certainly won't be due to his Benevolent Corporate Overlords, it'll be due to poor people, or foreigners, or Libruls.

From what he's said, he thinks profit is more important than human LIFE.

Hilarious. You're given nothing in life. Everything you have must be earned. What is so hard to understand about that?

You're a cruel person, you know that?

I want people to be self-sufficient. You are making it clear you wish me to become poverty-stricken. Such civility in you!

arbane:

Ninjamedic:

arbane:

Given that Big Willy (*snerk*) doesn't appear to be management, he sure seems to have a lot of emotional investment in safeguarding the upper classes. Economic Stockholm Syndrome, maybe. Or maybe he's just a rich kid.

Taking all bets!

Diablo1099:

I pray you never get to a position of power.

According to this post, Big Willie (snicker) says he's a student, which explains a few things, and he's studying business, which also explains a few things.

So yes, there's a chance that someday he will be someone's pointy-haired boss.

I have graduated with a good job. Joke is on you.

Plinglebob:

DrVornoff:

arbane:
Given that Big Willy (*snerk*) doesn't appear to be management, he sure seems to have a lot of emotional investment in safeguarding the upper classes. Economic Stockholm Syndrome, maybe. Or maybe he's just a rich kid.

Maybe he imagines he'll be joining them someday soon. If so, he wouldn't be the first person to fall for that stupid, "We're a society of haves and soon-to-haves," line.

"The problem with the American Dream is that it makes everyone worried about the day they'll be rich" Say what you will about The West Wing, but it had some decent one liners.

As a European Liberal Socialist, I honestly can't work out how people think like that with so little regard for their fellow man. My personal thought is its because the USA still thinks of itself as pretty much 50 countries and as a country there's never been a real reason to band together for the common good. That, or all the selfish white people left Europe when they had the chance and the traits still haven't been bread out of the gene pool.

"The West Wing" had Lawrence O'Donnell on it. It is hard to take that show seriously knowing that.

Thank you for being honest about your ideological preferences.

The government is not the solution, it is the problem.

Yes, because the European liberal socialist model is working well, eh? So many countries in the EU are collapsing under their debt obligations.

ravenshrike:

arbane:
gone to public school?

That's... REALLY not a good point to bring up. The only students who really do well from American public school education are those willing to bootstrap their own education.

I went to a public school with a graduating class between 700 and 800 people. I got into a first class university. I graduated with a good job.

renegade7:

Big_Willie_Styles:

Ninjamedic:
CUT DEFENCE ALREADY.

Anyway, I don't understand the determination conservatives have in balacing the budget yet supporting ideas like Privatised Medicne the Death Penalty and others which are more expensive then the alternatives. I just hope the Republicans lose badly enough in this election so that Obama can actually put policies into place.

The defense budget is nothing compared to the federal entitlement programs.

Yes, close our bases in Germany and every other country outside of those that are next to hostile countries. That pretty much just leaves South Korea and Israel. That will save a ton of money. But, of course, the countries we close bases in might actually have to provide their own national defense.

You really think Obamacare, in an effort to insure like 50 million more people, would save money? How exactly do you propose that would work out? Rationing care? Or a magical spinning wheel which spins garbage into gold and insulin shots?

The death penalty is not about cost, it is about justice and retribution. And it is only so expensive because of the endless appeals process. And all the stupid stuff we have to give men on death row.

As I gather from the way you spell "defense," you are not American. Obama is heading towards a crash and burn if his campaign continues to be run as shabbily as it currently is.

LOL, okay, first of all, 'defense' is the proper spelling.

And the Constitution protects the rights of the accused, incarcerated, and condemned. Why? So we don't let ourselves become a police state where it's okay to torture people because you're mad at them. No matter what they did, the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments (commonly called the Rights of the Accused) of the Constitution (which I strongly recommend you read) guarantee protection from torture and being punished without due process. If you don't give prison inmates the right to not be beaten by guards, they will drag the whole system down with an enormous fucking supreme court lawsuit. Secondly, the appeals process is ALSO guaranteed by the Constitution. If you were falsely accused and convicted of a crime, would YOU like to be prevented from appealing? I imagine so, THAT is why the appeals process exists. Is is also why inmates spend so much time on death row, so that there is given plenty of time for any potentially exonerating evidence to come to light.

Secondly, if you had done your research you would know that HR 3590, the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act", "Obamacare" as you call it, does not provide insurance and has nothing to do with socialized health care. It simply makes having insurance easier and more affordable, and in the grand scheme of things isn't actually going to cost the government that much. The highest estimate I found after several EXTENSIVE searches into the matter ( I have been researching PPACA for a about 2 months for a school project), and believe me it was a VERY generous estimate, was $530 billion over 10 years. So $53 billion a year, which PALES in comparison to the defense budget.

So basically, you don't seem to understand the Constitution, and have failed to do any sort of research into something you feel strongly about and are content to just whine about it. Please, explain how President Obama is worse for the country than people like that.

Yeah, while most analysis will show it is making health insurance more expensive and is probably going to be struck down by the SCOTUS for being unconstitutional.

Not G. Ivingname:
Here is a few small things that can be cut that will not negatively impact anyone and are only hurting us in both the short and long term:

Pennies. Money is designed to encourage the exchange of goods without having to deal with knowing what directly any item goes for compared to any other item (do you really want to remember the exchange rates between telescopes to Mercedes, for example). Pennies don't do that. There is literally nothing in the United States that has anything prices anywhere near the one cent mark. Try to buy anything with just pennies (say a galleon of gas which would require over 350 of them, depending on your area. Can't use them at Soda machines, with parker meters, or other coin operated device. It costs more to make pennies than they are worth, the finished metal cost is also more than what the penny is worth (but you can't sell them for scrap since melting down pennies is a felony) drives up the cost of copper and zinc, adds to inflation without being used, and is just dead weight on the economy. All that would be required to stop the madness is for the government to stop making the copper and zinc orders, turn off the machines, and allow pennies to be melted down for scrap and profit.

The TSA: The single most useless and hated organization in the government, the TSA has done nothing but decrease airline use and satisfaction, made privacy concerns/health concerns with there full body scanners, and sexual concerns with the opt out. Everyday there are stories of people who had accidently brought loaded guns in on there carry-on luggage and didn't know they had them until they unpacked their luggage. And the ONE legit terrorist attack involving an US plane was able to get through their check points, only to fail because he used a bad lighter. These guys have only increased the hassle of air travel and destroyed the entire private airport sequerity industrial while doing nothing to make us safer.

Military bases in allied countries: Why do we need to have all the bases in Europe? Do any of these nations really our military bases there? I am pretty sure Europe isn't under much military threat from anybody (no matter how many Call of Duty games say Russia is) and they have enough of a military budget to defend themselves.

I agree with a lot of that. I mentioned the bases thing earlier. Outside of South Korea and Israel, none of the countries we have bases in are likely to be attacked or invaded. Why are we in Germany?

PercyBoleyn:

ravenshrike:
That's... REALLY not a good point to bring up. The only students who really do well from American public school education are those willing to bootstrap their own education.

More funds and a better system would do wonders. Of course, that's "entitlement".

America spends the second most per pupil of any country, so what lack of funds are you talking about?

ravenshrike:

PercyBoleyn:

ravenshrike:

Horseshit. The DC public school systems are some of the highest funded schools in the country and suck balls. Above a very low baseline increased school funding has little to no effect upon performance.

Purposefully not responding to a very important part of my comment makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

A better system requires completely redoing the current one. Destroying the NEA and completely removing the department of educations ability to meddle in primary and secondary education. I seriously don't see that happening anytime soon.

Precisely.

arbane:

ravenshrike:
A better system requires completely redoing the current one. Destroying the NEA and completely removing the department of educations ability to meddle in primary and secondary education. I seriously don't see that happening anytime soon.

Yeah, it couldn't possibly start with anything as simple as getting the student/teacher ratio down below 30 and paying enough that being a teacher doesn't require a vow of poverty. Gotta crush them unions first!

We already spend the second most per student of any country. How many times do I have to mention that before you acknowledge it?

pyrate:

arbane:

ravenshrike:
A better system requires completely redoing the current one. Destroying the NEA and completely removing the department of educations ability to meddle in primary and secondary education. I seriously don't see that happening anytime soon.

Yeah, it couldn't possibly start with anything as simple as getting the student/teacher ratio down below 30 and paying enough that being a teacher doesn't require a vow of poverty. Gotta crush them unions first!

Don't be ridiculous, if we pay teachers fuck all then the teachers we have will be the people that really want to do it, that way we get the best. What do you think will happen if we pay teachers well, that we will attract bright minds into the field, hah, like that will happen.

Non-sarcastically though, the issue of education in America is larger than just the education system. Society itself has a large say on education. The single largest factor in how well a child learns is parental involvement. Of course, when you live in a society where a considerable portion of parents are working 60+ hour weeks just to put a roof over their heads parental involvement in education is decreased.

It also does not help when the minimum standard of education is very poor. The best education in American is jut that, the best. Where America falls down is that it really sucks at giving those not born into money to pay for the best education an opportunity. Education funding needs to be more balanced. If a school is having poor results do you really think stripping it of funding is going to help?

Yes, start with dismantling the power of the unions. The results in Wisconsin are very encouraging.

Big_Willie_Styles:

Yes, because the European liberal socialist model is working well, eh? So many countries in the EU are collapsing under their debt obligations.

Yes we are, the liberal socialist countries (sweden and norway primalrily) are doing great.
They're infact the best countries to live in in the whole world! Lowest corruption, lowest childbirth deathrate and best healthcare.
While there are several countries in the EU that are in deep trubble, mostly due to corruption and a house market bubble, they arent really liberal socialists.

DrVornoff:
Then tell them to pack that shit in. A government has the power to do that.

Oh, and one I forgot: fuck the War on Drugs! It's an expensive, pointless, fruitless boondoggle with no victory conditions pumping propaganda and lies into our schools and getting in the way medical research. Decriminalize this shit, legalize marijuana, and turn the DEA into something that doesn't concern itself with what people do in the privacy of their own homes.

Oh, my God. You misguided son of a bitch. You want the government to force companies to stay in America and not outsource. Damn, you're like a corrupt politician out of "Atlas Shrugged."

Yes, fuck the drug war. We can agree on that.

cahtush:

Big_Willie_Styles:

Yes, because the European liberal socialist model is working well, eh? So many countries in the EU are collapsing under their debt obligations.

Yes we are, the liberal socialist countries (sweden and norway primalrily) are doing great.
They're infact the best countries to live in in the whole world! Lowest corruption, lowest childbirth deathrate and best healthcare.
While there are several countries in the EU that are in deep trubble, mostly due to corruption and a house market bubble, they arent really liberal socialists.

Yes, because those countries produce exports worth a damn.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Hilarious. You're given nothing in life. Everything you have must be earned. What is so hard to understand about that?

You're a cruel person, you know that?

I want people to be self-sufficient. You are making it clear you wish me to become poverty-stricken. Such civility in you!

We're given nothing in life? Damn, what the hell did I ever do to deserve my mother's love, then? What the hell did I do to be fed by my father's paycheck? What was so impressive about me that I was not only allowed but mandated to go to public school, ensuring I gained the knowledge and experience I needed to function in society?

And furthermore, how did I earn the privilege of driving on these publicly-financed highways, protected by a taxpayer-funded police force? And why in God's name, when my house burned down, did the fire department respond quickly and not demand a penny to compensate their time? When I went into cardiac arrest and passed out, was that really enough to earn a trip to the Emergency Room? How did my disabled grandfather qualify for Social Security?

Tell me, Willie, did you ever go to a public school? Have you ever opened an FDIC-insured bank account? When you attended college, did you take out a government-subsidized student loan? Did you ever go shopping in the supermarket and buy some lunch meat, sure that it was free of salmonella?

You're handed quite a lot in life, Willie. If you honestly think of yourself as a self-made man, you're delusional. Everyone alive in the first world has received some sort of benefit from their fellow taxpayers' money. The system, despite its faults, loves you. It gives you so much, and you just take it for granted. If you really want to pull yourself up from your bootstraps, Willie, I suggest you burn your resume, leave town, find a job flipping burgers, and start working your way up. Don't open any bank accounts with FDIC. Don't accept food stamps or welfare. Don't accept Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. And definitely don't allow your friends and family to give you gifts of money or convenience. Never call 911, and don't you dare think about dipping into your life savings, because most people don't have any. And while you're at it, forget everything you learned in college until you can scrap together the money to go through it again. Do all that, and try to get back to where you are now. That's really what it means to be totally self-made.

You think you earned everything you have? Bullshit. Come back when you've actually been in a low-class worker's shoes.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Pithy quote that sounds nice but means nothing.

It's ultimately what your platform boils down to.

I am my own moral agent.

That's nice, but why should I care? Who are you to me?

Yeah, Mr. Authority on Business over here. If the business is doing terrible and the stock price is tanking, the shareholders fire the executives usually.

I'm starting my own business. I did my homework.

And the question isn't, "Is the business making money?" The question is, "Could they be making more money?" Executives are actually very hard to get rid of. A bad choice can effect a company for years to come.

Yes, like acting. Flipping burgers is the only thing you skill you can fall back on? Construction pays more than that. Tempting at an office pays more than that.

Depends on if they're hiring.

Starving artist is a term and not, say, starving physicist because artists have few skills to fall back on. Yes, and paying them $30,000 a year to flip burgers would shoot the price of the burgers up. You do realize that, right?

Creating a livable wage would cause a rise in cost of living, but not the hyperbolic degree that that you keep insisting on. Case in point: Australia.

They made some shitty choices, clearly. To have so few skills to fall back on that they end up having to do minimum wage works prove their idiocy.

Then you're naive as well as heartless. But you're still in school so you can be forgiven for having zero experience with the post-graduation job market.

Intelligence means you should diversify your skill set and hobbies. Have something else to fall back on, have some connections by networking, etc. Your friends made some really shitty life choices.

That's very easy to say when you know fuck all about them. Once again, your lack of experience in the post-graduation job market is showing.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Doesn't change the fact that they're not conclusive. See, like in the first example in that article, in 1990, DNA evidence wasn't the norm. Police found not have been fastidiously collecting every little fiber like they do now. You do know that, right?

No, don't bullshit me. You claimed that there has not been a single wrongful execution in over 4 decades. I proved you wrong. Be a man and own up to that.

It's fun being on top. Makes it easier to wave at others.

Keep that in mind should you ever find yourself unemployed and taking food stamps.

Paul Ryan > Obama any day, dude.

As a mentor of mine once said, "Lies are horseshit the first time you tell them, and they're still horseshit the thousandth time you've told them."

Big_Willie_Styles:
It might sound cold to say it, but some people are weak in mind and body. Those who turn to crime are definitely weak willed.

Again, very easy to say from your ivory tower. The easiest thing in the world to do is look down on another person. To listen to them? Empathize with them? That takes a mature adult. You have not reached that level yet. You still have more growing up to do.

I place a high value on culture. I love the shit out of Penn & Teller, but, you see, they have more than just their magic tricks to fall back on.

Sounds to me like what you really respect is wealth.

Also, I am a huge video game, movie, television, economics, politics, and comics buff. Why else would I be on this site otherwise?

Doesn't mean you think culture is important. Doesn't mean you value the people who make it. Doesn't mean you respect them. You just consume the products they offer you.

Yes, and your bliss sometimes won't pay your bills. And that's no one's fault but your own. I am not responsible for your shitty life choices. You are. Own them.

I've made my choices, but that doesn't make me less than human. That doesn't mean that I deserve to die to satisfy your selfishness.

I'm working on forming my own multimedia company. I want to work in performance arts, digital video, music, gaming, and anything else I can work on. I want to form a creative crossroads in Pittsburgh for other up and coming artists to create and experiment and network. I want to form a series of classes with the other artists to teach the arts, sciences, and media to underprivileged children. I have humanitarian goals as well. I'm volunteering my talents for charity. I'm working on documentaries about causes close to my heart. I'm an environmentalist. I'm an ordained minister of the ULC. I'm working hard for all of this. But that doesn't mean I don't call out what I see as the failures of our society to safeguard the welfare of the citizenry.

What have you done lately?

I'm not wishing poverty or anything on you. It would be great if everyone were rich. It just isn't going to happen. If you chose a shitty profession, you must live with the consequences.

I guarantee that if something bad happens to you and you need a safety net, you will take that handout. That's your words ring hollow.

Let's keep this simple for you: Costs go up, prices go up to reflect the increase in costs. Do I need to simplify it any more for you?

Simplification on your end is the problem. That and hyperbole.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Success is more important than a misconceived and incredibly naive notion of fairness.

Oh, and I'm not a rich kid. Middle class.

So you admit that profit is more important to you than your fellow man. A pleasure doing business with you.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Hilarious. You're given nothing in life. Everything you have must be earned. What is so hard to understand about that?

And again I say that you're full of shit. You weren't raised by wolves. Your parents raised you. Everything you got in those 18 years was given to you.

You're a cruel person, you know that?

I want people to be self-sufficient.

Sounds more like you think taxes are a punishment. You naively think that you owe nothing to anyone. But you live in a civilized society. We are all in this together, literally. You would not exist if not for the rest of us. You never had to ask for anything to be handed to you. Because the society you live in was given to you when you were born. You're welcome.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Yes, start with dismantling the power of the unions. The results in Wisconsin are very encouraging.

Wisconsin is still losing money and jobs. Walker admitted before the Senate that the union busting did nothing to improve the economy. Joke's on you.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Oh, my God. You misguided son of a bitch.

Getting a little hot under the collar there? And my mother's a saint.

Damn, you're like a corrupt politician out of "Atlas Shrugged."

That is the best compliment I have received in a very long time.

Godavari:

Big_Willie_Styles:
Hilarious. You're given nothing in life. Everything you have must be earned. What is so hard to understand about that?

You're a cruel person, you know that?

I want people to be self-sufficient. You are making it clear you wish me to become poverty-stricken. Such civility in you!

We're given nothing in life? Damn, what the hell did I ever do to deserve my mother's love, then? What the hell did I do to be fed by my father's paycheck? What was so impressive about me that I was not only allowed but mandated to go to public school, ensuring I gained the knowledge and experience I needed to function in society?

And furthermore, how did I earn the privilege of driving on these publicly-financed highways, protected by a taxpayer-funded police force? And why in God's name, when my house burned down, did the fire department respond quickly and not demand a penny to compensate their time? When I went into cardiac arrest and passed out, was that really enough to earn a trip to the Emergency Room? How did my disabled grandfather qualify for Social Security?

Tell me, Willie, did you ever go to a public school? Have you ever opened an FDIC-insured bank account? When you attended college, did you take out a government-subsidized student loan? Did you ever go shopping in the supermarket and buy some lunch meat, sure that it was free of salmonella?

You're handed quite a lot in life, Willie. If you honestly think of yourself as a self-made man, you're delusional. Everyone alive in the first world has received some sort of benefit from their fellow taxpayers' money. The system, despite its faults, loves you. It gives you so much, and you just take it for granted. If you really want to pull yourself up from your bootstraps, Willie, I suggest you burn your resume, leave town, find a job flipping burgers, and start working your way up. Don't open any bank accounts with FDIC. Don't accept food stamps or welfare. Don't accept Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security. And definitely don't allow your friends and family to give you gifts of money or convenience. Never call 911, and don't you dare think about dipping into your life savings, because most people don't have any. And while you're at it, forget everything you learned in college until you can scrap together the money to go through it again. Do all that, and try to get back to where you are now. That's really what it means to be totally self-made.

You think you earned everything you have? Bullshit. Come back when you've actually been in a low-class worker's shoes.

You must work for your parents' respect. You must work hard to graduate high school to get into a good college. You pay tax dollars that fund infrastructure. You know, you're really going into Elizabeth Warren bullshit territory, so I'm not going to go any further with this.

DrVornoff:

Big_Willie_Styles:
Pithy quote that sounds nice but means nothing.

It's ultimately what your platform boils down to.

I am my own moral agent.

That's nice, but why should I care? Who are you to me?

Yeah, Mr. Authority on Business over here. If the business is doing terrible and the stock price is tanking, the shareholders fire the executives usually.

I'm starting my own business. I did my homework.

And the question isn't, "Is the business making money?" The question is, "Could they be making more money?" Executives are actually very hard to get rid of. A bad choice can effect a company for years to come.

Yes, like acting. Flipping burgers is the only thing you skill you can fall back on? Construction pays more than that. Tempting at an office pays more than that.

Depends on if they're hiring.

Starving artist is a term and not, say, starving physicist because artists have few skills to fall back on. Yes, and paying them $30,000 a year to flip burgers would shoot the price of the burgers up. You do realize that, right?

Creating a livable wage would cause a rise in cost of living, but not the hyperbolic degree that that you keep insisting on. Case in point: Australia.

They made some shitty choices, clearly. To have so few skills to fall back on that they end up having to do minimum wage works prove their idiocy.

Then you're naive as well as heartless. But you're still in school so you can be forgiven for having zero experience with the post-graduation job market.

Intelligence means you should diversify your skill set and hobbies. Have something else to fall back on, have some connections by networking, etc. Your friends made some really shitty life choices.

That's very easy to say when you know fuck all about them. Once again, your lack of experience in the post-graduation job market is showing.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Doesn't change the fact that they're not conclusive. See, like in the first example in that article, in 1990, DNA evidence wasn't the norm. Police found not have been fastidiously collecting every little fiber like they do now. You do know that, right?

No, don't bullshit me. You claimed that there has not been a single wrongful execution in over 4 decades. I proved you wrong. Be a man and own up to that.

It's fun being on top. Makes it easier to wave at others.

Keep that in mind should you ever find yourself unemployed and taking food stamps.

Paul Ryan > Obama any day, dude.

As a mentor of mine once said, "Lies are horseshit the first time you tell them, and they're still horseshit the thousandth time you've told them."

Big_Willie_Styles:
It might sound cold to say it, but some people are weak in mind and body. Those who turn to crime are definitely weak willed.

Again, very easy to say from your ivory tower. The easiest thing in the world to do is look down on another person. To listen to them? Empathize with them? That takes a mature adult. You have not reached that level yet. You still have more growing up to do.

I place a high value on culture. I love the shit out of Penn & Teller, but, you see, they have more than just their magic tricks to fall back on.

Sounds to me like what you really respect is wealth.

Also, I am a huge video game, movie, television, economics, politics, and comics buff. Why else would I be on this site otherwise?

Doesn't mean you think culture is important. Doesn't mean you value the people who make it. Doesn't mean you respect them. You just consume the products they offer you.

Yes, and your bliss sometimes won't pay your bills. And that's no one's fault but your own. I am not responsible for your shitty life choices. You are. Own them.

I've made my choices, but that doesn't make me less than human. That doesn't mean that I deserve to die to satisfy your selfishness.

I'm working on forming my own multimedia company. I want to work in performance arts, digital video, music, gaming, and anything else I can work on. I want to form a creative crossroads in Pittsburgh for other up and coming artists to create and experiment and network. I want to form a series of classes with the other artists to teach the arts, sciences, and media to underprivileged children. I have humanitarian goals as well. I'm volunteering my talents for charity. I'm working on documentaries about causes close to my heart. I'm an environmentalist. I'm an ordained minister of the ULC. I'm working hard for all of this. But that doesn't mean I don't call out what I see as the failures of our society to safeguard the welfare of the citizenry.

What have you done lately?

I'm not wishing poverty or anything on you. It would be great if everyone were rich. It just isn't going to happen. If you chose a shitty profession, you must live with the consequences.

I guarantee that if something bad happens to you and you need a safety net, you will take that handout. That's your words ring hollow.

Let's keep this simple for you: Costs go up, prices go up to reflect the increase in costs. Do I need to simplify it any more for you?

Simplification on your end is the problem. That and hyperbole.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Success is more important than a misconceived and incredibly naive notion of fairness.

Oh, and I'm not a rich kid. Middle class.

So you admit that profit is more important to you than your fellow man. A pleasure doing business with you.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Hilarious. You're given nothing in life. Everything you have must be earned. What is so hard to understand about that?

And again I say that you're full of shit. You weren't raised by wolves. Your parents raised you. Everything you got in those 18 years was given to you.

You're a cruel person, you know that?

I want people to be self-sufficient.

Sounds more like you think taxes are a punishment. You naively think that you owe nothing to anyone. But you live in a civilized society. We are all in this together, literally. You would not exist if not for the rest of us. You never had to ask for anything to be handed to you. Because the society you live in was given to you when you were born. You're welcome.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Yes, start with dismantling the power of the unions. The results in Wisconsin are very encouraging.

Wisconsin is still losing money and jobs. Walker admitted before the Senate that the union busting did nothing to improve the economy. Joke's on you.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Oh, my God. You misguided son of a bitch.

Getting a little hot under the collar there? And my mother's a saint.

Damn, you're like a corrupt politician out of "Atlas Shrugged."

That is the best compliment I have received in a very long time.

Only thing in all that I see a point in responding to: I have graduated and got a great job. It's great. I have a staff of interns under me.

Big_Willie_Styles:
You must work for your parents' respect. You must work hard to graduate high school to get into a good college. You pay tax dollars that fund infrastructure. You know, you're really going into Elizabeth Warren bullshit territory, so I'm not going to go any further with this.

Meaning you don't know how to respond to that. You're not used to being challenged on the fact that you have had a lot given to you. Your parents' respect? What about their love? My parents love me and have supported me in both material ways and in morale in my every endeavor for the last 27 years. And I am eternally grateful to them for that. I didn't have to earn anything from them. We're family. We help each other because that's what a family is for. If you can scoff at such an idea, then I feel sorry for you.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Only thing in all that I see a point in responding to: I have graduated and got a great job. It's great. I have a staff of interns under me.

That's nice. Good for you. I hope you can hold onto it. It's just a shame you can't spare any good will for anyone else.

DrVornoff:

Big_Willie_Styles:
You must work for your parents' respect. You must work hard to graduate high school to get into a good college. You pay tax dollars that fund infrastructure. You know, you're really going into Elizabeth Warren bullshit territory, so I'm not going to go any further with this.

Meaning you don't know how to respond to that. You're not used to being challenged on the fact that you have had a lot given to you. Your parents' respect? What about their love? My parents love me and have supported me in both material ways and in morale in my every endeavor for the last 27 years. And I am eternally grateful to them for that. I didn't have to earn anything from them. We're family. We help each other because that's what a family is for. If you can scoff at such an idea, then I feel sorry for you.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Only thing in all that I see a point in responding to: I have graduated and got a great job. It's great. I have a staff of interns under me.

That's nice. Good for you. I hope you can hold onto it. It's just a shame you can't spare any good will for anyone else.

No, your Elizabeth Warren bullshit about the social contract is just nauseating.

Then once again, I'm sorry for you. Because you don't see how many people helped you achieve the success you have without even knowing you. Because you were given so much and you just take it for granted. I'm sorry for you because you feel physically ill at the thought that another human being helped you just because.

Big_Willie_Styles:
No, your Elizabeth Warren bullshit about the social contract is just nauseating.

Nauseating or not, it's true. Elizabeth Warren's statement about the social contract is 100% accurate, and literally the only people on the planet who seem willing to deny that are anarchists, libertarians, and republicans. You claim you were never handed anything... But you admit yourself that you went to public school. You use public roads. You benefit from the public protection offered by the army and policy force. Huh. Cognitive dissonance much? Your whole life, the government is giving you protection, support, and help. At this point, I don't care that you had to drive yourself down those roads, or had to work hard to make it through school - that still doesn't mean that, had those things not been there, it wouldn't have been far, far harder.

I dare you to live one day without using anything the government provided or created for you. At the very least, it would be one day of us here on the forums not having to listen to your selfish bullshit.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Yes, because those countries produce exports worth a damn.

Like Great Bri-oh wait.
Like German-oh wait.
Like Fran-oh wait.
Like Belg-oh wait.
Like Luxem-oh wait.
Like Holl-oh wait.
Like Denma-oh wait.

The fact is, the claim that the liberal countries of Europe are falling apart under their debt and that that debt is a direct result of social systems is bullshit. The countries that ARE falling apart are falling apart due to the housing crisis and corrupt bookkeeping.

Big_Willie_Styles:

Stagnant:

Saucycarpdog:

3)Bush tax cuts apply to everyone, not just the rich.

The rich get far more back individually than the lower and middle classes. I think getting rid of the cuts would help lower the deficit without crashing the economy much further.

You're an idiot. The rich pay more in taxes. The lower 50% of wage earners in the United States don't pay a cent in federal income taxes.

*Double Facepalm.*

...Yeah, that's my point. Are we missing something here? The rich pay far more taxes. They can afford to pay more. They should pay more, as the system has paid out far more for them.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Yes, start with dismantling the power of the unions. The results in Wisconsin are very encouraging.

[citation needed]

Big_Willie_Styles:

Obama's stimulus wasn't cut in funding, it just didn't work.

Oh? Really? My my, that IS an interesting claim. Take it away, Paul. And despite the fact that it was a rather pathetic stimulus, where 40% of the spending was in tax cuts, Apparently the majority of studies on the topic agree that yes, it did have a significant positive effect. And honestly, criticizing the stimulus for not getting us back to where we were in the early 2000s is like criticizing a doctor because the stabilized patient hasn't made a full recovery, when just days ago he was in critical condition and hemorrhaging blood from every pore, despite the fact that said doctor was in fact working (on your instructions) with a hand tied behind his back.

Stagnant:

Big_Willie_Styles:
No, your Elizabeth Warren bullshit about the social contract is just nauseating.

Nauseating or not, it's true. Elizabeth Warren's statement about the social contract is 100% accurate, and literally the only people on the planet who seem willing to deny that are anarchists, libertarians, and republicans. You claim you were never handed anything... But you admit yourself that you went to public school. You use public roads. You benefit from the public protection offered by the army and policy force. Huh. Cognitive dissonance much? Your whole life, the government is giving you protection, support, and help. At this point, I don't care that you had to drive yourself down those roads, or had to work hard to make it through school - that still doesn't mean that, had those things not been there, it wouldn't have been far, far harder.

I dare you to live one day without using anything the government provided or created for you. At the very least, it would be one day of us here on the forums not having to listen to your selfish bullshit.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Yes, because those countries produce exports worth a damn.

Like Great Bri-oh wait.
Like German-oh wait.
Like Fran-oh wait.
Like Belg-oh wait.
Like Luxem-oh wait.
Like Holl-oh wait.
Like Denma-oh wait.

The fact is, the claim that the liberal countries of Europe are falling apart under their debt and that that debt is a direct result of social systems is bullshit. The countries that ARE falling apart are falling apart due to the housing crisis and corrupt bookkeeping.

Big_Willie_Styles:

Stagnant:

The rich get far more back individually than the lower and middle classes. I think getting rid of the cuts would help lower the deficit without crashing the economy much further.

You're an idiot. The rich pay more in taxes. The lower 50% of wage earners in the United States don't pay a cent in federal income taxes.

*Double Facepalm.*

...Yeah, that's my point. Are we missing something here? The rich pay far more taxes. They can afford to pay more. They should pay more, as the system has paid out far more for them.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Yes, start with dismantling the power of the unions. The results in Wisconsin are very encouraging.

[citation needed]

Big_Willie_Styles:

Obama's stimulus wasn't cut in funding, it just didn't work.

Oh? Really? My my, that IS an interesting claim. Take it away, Paul. And despite the fact that it was a rather pathetic stimulus, where 40% of the spending was in tax cuts, Apparently the majority of studies on the topic agree that yes, it did have a significant positive effect. And honestly, criticizing the stimulus for not getting us back to where we were in the early 2000s is like criticizing a doctor because the stabilized patient hasn't made a full recovery, when just days ago he was in critical condition and hemorrhaging blood from every pore, despite the fact that said doctor was in fact working (on your instructions) with a hand tied behind his back.

Except it's 100% wrong. I see I have exhausted my reason to continue debating you.

Big_Willie_Styles:
Except it's 100% wrong. I see I have exhausted my reason to continue debating you.

And this is the problem with your attempts at debating. Asserting something does not make it true. And when we don't believe your assertions, two things happen.

First, you insist that this is a gaming forum and thus you don't have to produce evidence to back up your claims.

And after that, you resort to name calling and childish nastiness when we continue to demand proof.

So once again, your words ring hollow. You made no genuine attempt at debate, you just tried to browbeat us and get all flustered when it didn't work. You've got a lot of growing up to do. I hope you make it some day.

Big_Willie_Styles:
You must work for your parents' respect.

Would your parents refuse to feed you if you didn't work for your meals?

You must work hard to graduate high school to get into a good college.

You should consider yourself lucky that public high school exists; if nobody thought you were entitled to it, you (or more likely your parents) would be paying out the ass for school, or you'd just have to self-study. Good luck getting into a nice private college with that.

You pay tax dollars that fund infrastructure.

And without billions of people paying in, your individual tax dollars mean nothing. You, individually, payed for a mile of road. If you use any more than that, you're benefiting from other people's money.

You know, you're really going into Elizabeth Warren bullshit territory,

I don't have a clue who that is.

so I'm not going to go any further with this.

I hope not. Goodness knows you can't keep up your "self-made man" image while using the internet, which I'm sure you didn't finance yourself.

Godavari:

You know, you're really going into Elizabeth Warren bullshit territory,

I don't have a clue who that is.

Elizabeth Warren is an incredibly interesting public figure. Famous quote by her:

"There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you.

But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory...

Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

And she's 100% right.

Something I feel is very relevant for this discussion:

I hate Taxes

It's tax season again and I feel angry and ripped off. I hate to pay my taxes. I only have three kids in public schools and although I have 5 library books right now, I could have gotten them on Amazon. I did set my kitchen on fire once but technically I had the fire out before the fire department arrived. And despite my relief that 911 sent help years ago when my then 4 year old "ran away," in hindsight I'm not so sure I really wanted him back.

...cont.

I recommend reading the whole thing. It's hilarious, well-written, and spot-on point.

Just for reference, a Big Mac in the US averages $4.20, Australia is $4.94.

There are two things to consider here. A full time minimum wage worker in Australia earns a touch over $30k a year. The average worker in Australia makes $70k.

There is an aspect that makes US burgers cheaper and that is farm subsidies and oil subsidies. Meat and dairy in the US has massive subsidies, on top of that oil is subsidized as well (which is why they have cheap petrol). So not only are the ingredients of the Big Mac in the US subsidized, so is the transport.

Even if you do not consider the subsidized price of the US Big Mac, the rise in price is less than 20%. You might think 20% is quite a lot, but put it into perspective. An Australian worker is earning 200% of what an American earns.

Stagnant:
Elizabeth Warren is an incredibly interesting public figure. Famous quote by her:

"There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you.

But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory...

Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

And she's 100% right.

Of course she's 100% right. The sad thing is that it should be common sense. Wille is proof enough that it's not, and that saddens me.

Just chiming in here, I've been enjoying the "discussion" from afar, but I just wanted to say:

My god man, if the republican people on this website are representative, then all hope is lost already.
I have seen circular logic, arguments from authority, flat out lies (That they cling to like a Koala clings to eucalypti), arguments that make no sense, denial of evidence when it goes against their believe, a shocking disrespect for their fellow human beings, paranoia, militarism, homophobia and delusions.

Jesus Christ America is fucked with people like that.

Big_Willie_Styles:

cahtush:

Big_Willie_Styles:

Yes, because the European liberal socialist model is working well, eh? So many countries in the EU are collapsing under their debt obligations.

Yes we are, the liberal socialist countries (sweden and norway primalrily) are doing great.
They're infact the best countries to live in in the whole world! Lowest corruption, lowest childbirth deathrate and best healthcare.
While there are several countries in the EU that are in deep trubble, mostly due to corruption and a house market bubble, they arent really liberal socialists.

Yes, because those countries produce exports worth a damn.

But they have high taxes, the unions have a lot of power and the state run many things of society.
Considering your other posts shouldnt Sweden just crash and burn?

Stagnant:

I dare you to live one day without using anything the government provided or created for you. At the very least, it would be one day of us here on the forums not having to listen to your selfish bullshit.

to be fair the only reason he has a roof over his head, can use his computer, can go get clean non-disease ridden food from his fridge is because of the infrastructure the government supplies. it would be impossible for him to live a day without using anything government provided so i have a better idea.

we send willie to somalia and see how long he lasts. its the closest we can get to a country that has had no government to help in modern history. i wonder what will kill him first, the diseased food and water or a gunshot to the back of the head from a guy who likes the look of his shoes.

reonhato:
to be fair the only reason he has a roof over his head, can use his computer, can go get clean non-disease ridden food from his fridge is because of the infrastructure the government supplies.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If he wants to find out what it's like to live without government support, he has to start by repeating his entire education from the ground up as an autodidact or pay for teachers out of pocket because public education was provided to him by the government. Then he'll need to either grow and harvest or catch and kill his own food because farm subsidies are provided by the government and everything he finds at the supermarket is tightly regulated by the FDA. I hope he likes the taste of crickets and wild onions. Then he'll have to make it a point not to use any paved roads for transportation. At this job he speaks of, he'll have to figure out some way to power it independent of the grid and dig a well in order to bring water into it. While he's out there, he might as well dig an outhouse. He'll also have to hire private security out of pocket, and instruct them only to chase intruders away since he's not allowed to use a court system to detain and try them and he can't use any laws to press charges because those were written by professional legislators whose salaries come from tax payer dollars. And he's not allowed to use any phone lines either as the government actually mandated their ubiquity in the 1950's.

The list just goes on and on. And it really shows why this mantra of, "I never had anything handed to me," is bullshit. He's either oblivious to reality or a liar.

Big_Willie_Styles:

America spends the second most per pupil of any country, so what lack of funds are you talking about?

Do you have any evidence for that?

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