George Zimmerman Found Not Guilty

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TheKasp:
Wow.... Just wow. I hope you accept your public execution if you fuck a little up and the media decides to jump on your ass like bees on honey.

I don't carry around a gun and stalk kids for no fuckin' reason.

Also, fuck up a little? He killed a 17 year old kid. What the hell is wrong with you?

Adam Jensen:
People who can actually defend Zimmerman disgust me.

I really hope someone kills Zimmerman soon. Him walking away without any consequences sends a very clear message to every lunatic and racist in Florida that it's open season on whoever they don't like. All they have to do is start a fight, kill the person and use Zimmerman's defense to get away with it. That's dangerous.

So fuck the law, amirite? I mean, who cares that the man was judged by a jury to be innocent? Who cares if the evidence surrounding what happened is sketchy? He should be killed because damn it, a lot of people think he did it. This is a Democracy right? Let the people decide! It worked so well in the French Revolution, lets bring it back!

Adam Jensen:

I don't carry around a gun and stalk kids for no fuckin' reason.

Also, fuck up a little? He killed a 17 year old kid. What the hell is wrong with you?

He did neither stalk nor did he follow a kid nor did he have no 'fuckin' reason'.

What is wrong with you that you yell for blood of someone who got attacked and only defended himself in fear of his own life? (see how two can play the game)

17 years old is not a kid anymore, it is a teen that is pretty fucking close to adulthood.

Now please provide evidence for your claims.

What the hell is wrong with you that you seem to ignore evidence.

Owyn_Merrilin:

Right, and movies and such weren't covered under the original copyright law, they were added in later versions. That's changing with the times. Extending the term is just greedy corporations being greedy corporations.

I mean, we all want things we can't or even shouldn't have. That doesn't mean we're entitled to them.

That's not greed. That's people wishing to own their creations and profit off their creations longer. Because it's theirs.

We're entitled to the profits of things we create. Because we created them. They are ours. We own them.

LetalisK:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there has been very few "I know Zimmerman didn't do it" posts in relation to how many "There's not enough evidence".

There is ample evidence for every single thing I have claimed, although I am not claiming the same as what other people are claiming.

-fact, Zimmerturd was a violent man with a history of of crime related paranoia
-fact, he was following Mr Martin for no tangible or logical reason and then chased him through the back streets against advice
-fact, he had made is intent clear several times, both to not let the situation slide and through his frustration at Mr Martins temporary escape
-fact, Mr Martin was in fear for his safety
-fact, Mr Martin should have had a viable self defence claim and was not obligated to leave and by choosing to turn back did nothing wrong
-fact, there is no evidence behind Mr Martins intent to turn back or any room for reasonble speculation
-fact, there is no evidence about who started the fight in any event
-fact, there was a fight and Mr Martin was winning
-fact, Zimmertoads life was not in danger when he pulled the trigger

Therefore its pretty amusing to see people tubthumping about evidence when they are ignoring it themselves.

TheKasp:
He did neither stalk nor did he follow a kid nor did he have no 'fuckin' reason'.

What is wrong with you that you yell for blood of someone who got attacked and only defended himself in fear of his own life? (see how two can play the game)

17 years old is not a kid anymore, it is a teen that is pretty fucking close to adulthood.

Now please provide evidence for your claims.

Zimmertoad was recorded when he admitted to following Mr Martin. The tapes are there, go listen to them. Zimmertool did not see Mr Martin commit a crime either.

Please provide evidence that he was not following him, also please provide evidence that if he was following him he had good reason.

There are no eyewitnesses and no CCTV footage of the fight, noone apart from Zimmerturd knows what happened.

Please provide proof that Mr Martin threw the first punch.

There is no evidence that Zimmertools life was in danger, there is however evidence to suggest that it wasn't as the court approved medical examiner stated his injuries where insignificant and his injuries did not even receive hospital treatment.

If you want to claim his life was in danger please provide proof.

You are completely divorcing yourself from the events that actually happened, you are doing exactly the same as the people that are running around screaming that Zimmertoad is a racist murderer. You are just on the opposite side of the fence thats all.

J Tyran:

-fact, he was following Mr Martin for no tangible or logical reason and then chased him through the back streets against advice

This is not a fact. In the audio recording, as soon as he is adviced to stop the pursuit you can hear that he stops.

-fact, there was a fight and Mr Martin was winning

Fact is also that he was the only one fighting.

-fact, Zimmerman life was not in danger when he pulled the trigger

Not a fact. Slamming someones head against concrete as well as stating the intent to kill someone is classified as 'life being in danger'.

Therefore its pretty amusing to see people tubthumping about evidence when they are ignoring it themselves.

Fun thing you should say that.

Zimmerman was recorded when he admitted to following Mr Martin. The tapes are there, go listen to them.

Please provide evidence that he was not following him

*sigh* And now show me where I stated that he wasn't following him. I did say that he was not stalking him. I stated that he wasn't following a kid but at least a young adult. Kid implies that it was someone with lesser physical capabilities which don't apply to Martin.

There are no eyewitnesses and no CCTV footage of the fight, noone apart from Zimmerturd knows what happened.

Please provide proof that Mr Martin threw the first punch.

There is physical evidence that the fight was solely one sided. No harm on Martins body. Either the punch thrown by Zimmerman did no damage at all (unlikely) or Martin threw the first punch.

There is a witness of the fight.

You are twisting the evidence and not only ignoring it but misrepresenting it / making assumptions that have no basis. Unlike you I stated several times that there is a big gap in the evidence where several things could have happened and that any 'stated' fact, like the continued pursuit assumption people throw out, needs to be based on evidence. The reconstruction based on Martins last call as well as the position where his body was located suggest that he turned around - not very typical for someone who, what you stated as fact, was afraid of his life. You ignore Martins violent history and paint Zimmerman as the violent, paranoid thug. So please tell me how I ignore evidence or jump on only one side of the mob.

J Tyran:

LetalisK:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there has been very few "I know Zimmerman didn't do it" posts in relation to how many "There's not enough evidence".

There is ample evidence for every single thing I have claimed, although I am not claiming the same as what other people are claiming.

Your fanfiction doesn't count as evidence. No one is taking it seriously anymore.

Shock and Awe:

Adam Jensen:
People who can actually defend Zimmerman disgust me.

I really hope someone kills Zimmerman soon. Him walking away without any consequences sends a very clear message to every lunatic and racist in Florida that it's open season on whoever they don't like. All they have to do is start a fight, kill the person and use Zimmerman's defense to get away with it. That's dangerous.

So fuck the law, amirite? I mean, who cares that the man was judged by a jury to be innocent? Who cares if the evidence surrounding what happened is sketchy? He should be killed because damn it, a lot of people think he did it. This is a Democracy right? Let the people decide! It worked so well in the French Revolution, lets bring it back!

pretty much.

"the law" pretty much is the will of the majority just enforced through a different set of mechanisms.

sometimes, most of the times, it has the luxury of evolving slowly.

sometimes it does not.

and people will change it if they consider it in the wrong...he says to an American...or has it never occurred to you that America came into existence due to the breaking of "the law" ?...

i don't agree with much of Adams sentiment but sometimes "the law's an ass" (likewise a jury) and in the wider context of a given society sometimes its far more important for justice to be seen to be done.

we have people locked up the UK "who will never get out" and yet the power to put people in prison and hold them indefinitely is not actually within the power of a judge, a jury or "the law" but rather it's actually exercised by the Home Secretary which is a cabinet level government position making it directly responsive to both public opinion and elections.

Ultratwinkie:

Really? Do you think these people actually care? Do you think that all this twitter feed and facebook circlejerks are a symptom of people caring?

No, they don't. If people cared, Hispanics wouldn't be hauled off by Arpaio just on race. Compton's problems wouldn't be that bad.Hell, I'd think Little devil would agree with me, that native americans wouldn't have the issues they have now if their troubles got the same coverage as trayvon.

These people are "helping" the same way people "helped" capture Kony. They are just there because its "trendy" and "hip." Most of them didn't even bother to watch the trial and even more forgot he even existed after a month.

The only blindness here is believing the hollow words of "helpers."

A kid dies in the streets of Compton, no one cares. Not even a footnote.

A kid dies in a gated neighborhood, everyone loses their shit.

Its a well known fact that people only seem to "care" when someone dies in the good part of town. Past the little quips and past the stupid arguments people don't actually care. Its a fact of life. They will forget all of this in a week at least, and at most a month.

That's why I haven't really argued in this thread, no matter how much the people in this thread get facts wrong. Its a meaningless, wasted effort on a subject no one will remember a month from now. The only reason people even noticed is because the media turned this into a race issue to garner ratings, even going as far as editing videos and recordings.

Protecting prejudice? No need to "protect" anything when 99% of the population didn't give a rats ass in the first place.

Ultratwinkie:

Oh so they couldn't catch Kony and gave up, but they can somehow get "justice for trayvon" AFTER the courts have all decided and its all over? With double jeopardy and the law making that impossible?

Yeah, real "caring" people. Didn't even care enough to watch the trial either from what I am gathering from a lot of posts.

So where is all the actual "world changing care" these people exude? Because as far as the eye can see its cheap slogans, and like-mining status updates. the entire issue reeks of overblown media hype meant for rating than any actual debate.

ah thank you for posting all that, this is my exact feelings on the matter, shit that is ACTUALLY racist and WORSE happens all the time and the nation/world doesn't bat an eyelash, but when the media frenzy's it up over something that wasn't racially based, all fucking hell breaks loose because people can't form their own opinion on the manner by educating themselves.

regardless of previous "stalking/following", if someone is assaulting you and slams your head into concrete while being ON TOP of you, i can't see how you can argue that is "unlawful" and he was not "threatened" for his life.

Adam Jensen:

TheKasp:
Wow.... Just wow. I hope you accept your public execution if you fuck a little up and the media decides to jump on your ass like bees on honey.

I don't carry around a gun and stalk kids for no fuckin' reason.

Also, fuck up a little? He killed a 17 year old kid. What the hell is wrong with you?

No, he killed this:

image

That "kid" wanted to to "prove" how tough he was to the point he challenged everyone to a fight. A mentality he didn't let go of to the point his mother kicked him out.

However, as many teenagers learn, that they have a high chance of starting a fight they can't finish. In this case it led to his death. Zimmerman wasn't some rogue hunter of black people, he was looking for a thief that would have been easily resolved peacefully.

Instead Trayvon wanted to act all tough and "gangsta" and paid for it with his life.

and past all of this, this is what it boils down to. Anyone who has watched the trial knows that the prosecution had no case at all and the majority of the evidence against zimmerman was a fake testimony from a random woman.

The case fell apart for a reason, and anyone who disagrees didn't watch the trial and lives in fantasy land.

Sleekit:

Shock and Awe:

Adam Jensen:
People who can actually defend Zimmerman disgust me.

I really hope someone kills Zimmerman soon. Him walking away without any consequences sends a very clear message to every lunatic and racist in Florida that it's open season on whoever they don't like. All they have to do is start a fight, kill the person and use Zimmerman's defense to get away with it. That's dangerous.

So fuck the law, amirite? I mean, who cares that the man was judged by a jury to be innocent? Who cares if the evidence surrounding what happened is sketchy? He should be killed because damn it, a lot of people think he did it. This is a Democracy right? Let the people decide! It worked so well in the French Revolution, lets bring it back!

pretty much.

"the law" pretty much is the will of the majority just enforced through a different set of mechanisms.

sometimes, most of the times, it has the luxury of evolving slowly.

sometimes it does not.

and people will change it if they consider it in the wrong...he says to an American...or has it never occurred to you that America came into existence due to the breaking of "the law" ?...

i don't agree with much of Adams sentiment but sometimes "the law's an ass" (likewise a jury) and in the wider context of a given society sometimes its far more important for justice to be seen to be done.

we have people locked up the UK "who will never get out" and yet the power to put people in prison and hold them indefinitely is not actually within the power of a judge, a jury or "the law" but rather it's actually exercised by the Home Secretary which is a cabinet level government position making it directly responsive to both public opinion and elections.

If it is an unjust law that the country is truly behind changing I would agree, but that is not the case. This is a very vocal minority who are mostly uninformed about the issue who want blood. This isn't some political situation where we have people being detained for their politics, this is a criminal case that people don't agree with. The Law and courts are in place because leaving questions of justice "to the people" is a really bad idea. I already mentioned the French Revolution. Why has government been instituted at all? Because the passions of men will not conform to the dictates of reason and justice, without constraint.(Thank you, Hamilton)

Adam Jensen:
People who can actually defend Zimmerman disgust me.

I really hope someone kills Zimmerman soon. Him walking away without any consequences sends a very clear message to every lunatic and racist in Florida that it's open season on whoever they don't like. All they have to do is start a fight, kill the person and use Zimmerman's defense to get away with it. That's dangerous.

So you call this case outcome "dangerous" and your solution is to have lynch mobs brutally enforce their version of "justice" via murder? You scare me a hell of a lot more than any part of this case.

J Tyran:

-fact, Zimmerturd was a violent man with a history of of crime related paranoia

First you are really hard to take seriously when you insist on littering your post with juvenile playground name calling. Second there is evidence that Trayvon wasn't exactly an upstanding member of society, so the pointless character attacks can work for either side.

LetalisK:

J Tyran:

LetalisK:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there has been very few "I know Zimmerman didn't do it" posts in relation to how many "There's not enough evidence".

There is ample evidence for every single thing I have claimed, although I am not claiming the same as what other people are claiming.

Your fanfiction doesn't count as evidence. No one is taking it seriously anymore.

Thank for you conceding, at least you know when you have lost.

TheKasp:

J Tyran:

-fact, he was following Mr Martin for no tangible or logical reason and then chased him through the back streets against advice

This is not a fact. In the audio recording, as soon as he is adviced to stop the pursuit you can hear that he stops.

Actually he continued pursuit after being advised not to, he only stopped running after losing sight of Mr Martin. For whatever reason he then stopped providing evidence. The only thing that are clear is that he did want Mr Martin to get away and Mr Martin had gotten out of sight.

-fact, there was a fight and Mr Martin was winning

Fact is also that he was the only one fighting.

Incorrect, he was the only one injured. He might have missed blows, he might have tried wrestling instead of punching or maybe Mr Martin blocked or dodged. No injuries is not the same as not fighting.

-fact, Zimmerman life was not in danger when he pulled the trigger

Not a fact. Slamming someones head against concrete as well as stating the intent to kill someone is classified as 'life being in danger'.

Again, Zimmertool had no significant injuries at all. if Mr Martin was trying to kill him he was being very, very gentle about it. Zimmer turd had no concussion, no skull fractures and no large cuts that required stitches or other treatment to the back of his skull. If Martins blows where endangering his life at least one of those three types of injury would prove it, all we have is Zimmertoads word that he felt his life was in danger. He could well be lying that he felt in danger, feeling your life was in danger when there is no credible evidence that it was should not provide a defence either.

There is physical evidence that the fight was solely one sided. No harm on Martins body. Either the punch thrown by Zimmerman did no damage at all (unlikely) or Martin threw the first punch.

There is a witness of the fight.

There is evidence that the fight was one sided yes, I did clearly say that Mr Martin was winning the fight did I not? I also made it clear there was a witness to the fight, there was no witness to the start of the fight. Again we have no proof that Zimmertool did not fight back, only evidence that Mr Martin was not injured. Mr Martin could have dodged any potential first blow or Zimmertool might have missed, lack of injury =/= no blow was attempted.

You are twisting the evidence and not only ignoring it but misrepresenting it / making assumptions that have no basis. Unlike you I stated several times that there is a big gap in the evidence where several things could have happened and that any 'stated' fact, like the continued pursuit assumption people throw out, needs to be based on evidence. The reconstruction based on Martins last call as well as the position where his body was located suggest that he turned around - not very typical for someone who, what you stated as fact, was afraid of his life. You ignore Martins violent history and paint Zimmerman as the violent, paranoid thug. So please tell me how I ignore evidence or jump on only one side of the mob.

I have twisted nothing, just presented it. I have also clearly stated the definition between the evidence and my own personal speculation. I have never stated that Mr Martin felt his life was in danger either, only that he clearly feared becoming the victim of a crime. Of what crime? Robbery or assault in all likelihood but as he never mentioned which we will never know, the fact he repeatedly stated his concerns over the phone and became spooked enough to run in the first place showed the he feared something was going to happen.

As for turning back, we do not know why but that is irrelevant because he was under no obligation to either flee to or continue travelling in any particular direction and he did nothing wrong by turning back.

Not talking about something =/= ignoring something. Just remember that you ignored Zimmertools history when you attempted a character assassination of Mr Martin.

Zimmertools motivations are the ones more relevant to my claims of manslaughter, they show his poor judgment and paranoia. As his poor judgement and paranoia are the reasons this whole sorry chain of events where set in motion and his history of violence shows that he was just as likely to have started the fight as Mr Martin was. Mr Martins behavior just shows why he was probably the one that was winning the fight its not as immediately relevant, or well actually it is I guess as it adds to the reasoning that he feared becoming a victim of crime when being followed.

major_chaos:

J Tyran:

-fact, Zimmerturd was a violent man with a history of of crime related paranoia

First you are really hard to take seriously when you insist on littering your post with juvenile playground name calling. Second there is evidence that Trayvon wasn't exactly an upstanding member of society, so the pointless character attacks can work for either side.

Mr Martin did not set this chain of events in motion though, Zimmertoads motivations are the ones that need the most examination as they are the cause of all this in the first place.

The fact that Mr Martin may or may not have had some fights in the past have little bearing, Zimmerknob did not know him or his reputation so that would have had no effect on his decision to harass him. Neither was he committing any crime at the time.

Y'know, I started this thread over a year ago, where these exact, same arguments were had. They were just as pointless then as they are now.

I'm not afraid to admit that at first I thought Zim guilty. The evidence is linked above. Also linked above is evidence of my gradual shift toward I-don't-know. I was away during the trial itself or I might've made a thread dedicated to the trial. Seeing how the trial turned out though, I guess I'm glad I didn't. The prosecution was a complete cluster fuck, presenting absolutely nothing compelling or even new, while the defense had a field day.

Oh, @Ultratwinkie: psst, wrong guy.

@ J. Tyran: "Zimmertool"? Are we back in fourth grade, sir?

The reality is that the state of Florida failed to prove that Zimmerman committed murder when he killed Trayvon. End of story. The "histories" of either party (Zimmerman and Trayvon) are irrelevant.

Well this case may not be totally over yet I heard on HLN that the DoJ will be bringing back the old precedent for m the 60's or federally charging Zimmerman for the Violation of Mr Martins Civil Rights.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-hiding-verdict-article-1.1398369

Darks63:
Well this case may not be totally over yet I heard on HLN that the DoJ will be bringing back the old precedent for m the 60's or federally charging Zimmerman for the Violation of Mr Martins Civil Rights.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-hiding-verdict-article-1.1398369

They got shit, but it will be funny to watch this shit again. If nothing more than to see the lynch mob lose again.

acsoundwave:
@ J. Tyran: "Zimmertool"? Are we back in fourth grade, sir?

Along with you yes, you have resorted to insults too so you have no room to judge me and if I am in fourth grade for it you must be too. Also look at it like this, I insulted a paranoid & violent fruitloop[1] of a killer[2] yet you are aiming insults at me.

If I could be bothered I might sit and have a think about what they says about you.

[1] which is matter of public record
[2] Mr Martin is indeed dead and it was Zimmerturd that killed him

J Tyran:
snip

Its possible to kill a man in one punch

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500164_162-20077324.html

In an unrelated story. This man lost a bar fight and is unable to speak or walk without aid. He was kicked him in the head eight times and his skull was smashed against pavement four times.
http://sourcefednews.com/brutal-beating-victim-awarded-58-million-settlement/
image

trayvon was also a thief it seems.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/05/01/m-dspd-cover-up-the-curious-case-of-trayvon-martins-backpack-with-stolen-jewelry-and-burglary-tool/

I think Both Travyon And Zimmerman were excellent judges of Character. Zimmerman knew Trayvon was up to no good and Trayvon knew he Zimmerman would go down like a bitch in a fight

J Tyran:

A, I will not make the accusation of racism but Zimmerturd had been following and stalking young African Americans for months, this is where the accusation happened to come from.

Erroneous. He called the police many times on people of all colors as white, hispanic and black youths had been burglarizing the neighborhood. Also a man who freely mentors minority youths and gives them keys to his home is incredibly unlikely to be a racist. Also he started a business up with a black man. Not conducive to racism at all. Not saying you called him that, but just for the record.

J Tyran:
B, The tapes clearly showed for no logical or tangible reason he followed Mr Martin for some time before running and chasing him through back streets.

He saw someone in his mind acting suspiciously wearing clothes that were similar to those worn by the burglars. Further he got out of the car because said thieves switch the road signs to confuse people.

J Tyran:
C, Well I have never said he murdered Mr Martin, others have so your point stands

Granted. But that's what he was accused of by the prosecution which is why this went to trial. That is why I mentioned it.

[quote="J Tyran" post="528.821937.19875588"]D, Irrelevant, Zimmerturd did not know Mr Martin and his reputation so that had no basis on his decision to harass him. Made further irrelevant by the fact he was doing nothing wrong at the time. Zimmertoad was no upstanding citizen either, he has assaulted police officers in the past and a general nuisance clogging up vital emergency service call centers with his paranoid ramblings. (how this wasn't illegal in the first place I have no idea)

All of that is true, but Z's charges were dropped or reduced in every instance otherwise he couldn't have had a legal firearm or a CCW(concealed carry permit) As to why it isn't illegal it's because in many instances local police agencies work hand in hand with neighborhood watches and Z had reported several credible instances before. However given the situation, a rainy dark night, a man walking by himself in what the burglars wore, his (Z's) reaction is understandable. Also calling the police to inform them doesn't really go hand in hand with the picture the MSM portrayed.

[quote="J Tyran" post="528.821937.19875588"]E, Maybe not but I think its pretty lame that there are no laws to protect members of the public from harassment, either from other people on the street or from paranoid and violent self appointed vigilantes.

Citation? That's a bold claim that none of the available evidence supports and I would like to know where you got that. Secondly, if we accept that the evidence points to a verdict of not guilty, that evidence includes Z's testimony. In which case we are told that TM approached Z and said, "What's your problem?" To which Z replied. "Nothing, I don't have one." And TM responded with "Well you do now" and proceeded to break Z's nose in one punch and knock him to the ground. Once this was done he proceeded to mount Z and ground and pound him, including repeatedly smashing Z's head on the concrete which is at best felony assault and at worst attempted murder. The wounds on both bodies show evidence of this as Z was a bloody mess and aside from the fatal gunshot TM's only wounds were on his knuckles from smashing Z. If this doesn't qualify as self defense, I don't know what does, but I would like to hear what else needed to happen for this claim to be true.

Also apologies for the botched quotes, I'm not sure what I did to mess them up. My mistake.

psijac:
snip for size

That is certainly interesting in general sort of interest way sure but its not entirely relevant or appropriate, Zimmertool could have killed Mr Martin in one punch just as easily. Just because something is possible it doesn't mean it would have happened, a meteorite might have come down and wiped out the whole neighborhood and stopped the fight. Sorry if that sounds insulting but its not meant to be, just pushing the possibilities to absurdity to press my point. The man who had his skull caved in has some nasty injuries, each of the eight times he was kicked and each of four times his head was hit off the pavement probably resulted in a series of accumulative injuries. When somebody is hit hard enough to endanger their lives its obvious by the injuries. I feel sorry for that man in the picture, Zimmertoad didnt even have a cut on his head from the impact though let alone anything like that.

If Mr Martin was a thief he was certainly not thieving at the time and nor was he equipped to do be doing so, if he was a thief all that means was he took things that where not his which in my mind doesn't warrant his death or the use of lethal force for no reason. Zimmertoad had a history of assaulting police officers and was under a restraining order for domestic violence, both men had questionable backgrounds.

J Tyran:

lastjustice:
Explain to me Why a person calls the cops before they blow someone away or allows another man to beat their face several times as a means of enabling murder.

Do me a solid and go back and actually read my posts then, never claimed he murdered him. My argument was that Zimmertool is a violent (a matter of public record) and paranoid fruitloop (a matter of public record) that recklessly and against advice created a situation that caused the death of a young man who at the time was doing nothing wrong and simply walking down a street. Recklessly killing someone is manslaughter and he shouldnt get away with it.

(I said go back and read entire thing and pick it apart, but you don't seem to beyond first words you see.)

So GZ didn't murder TM then what is your malfunction? GZ violent... guy had 2 cases he beat prior or got them reduced to lesser charges. We're supposed to ignore TM's very recent history of violence and say he's cool. Then we're supposed to take everything against GZ and superimpose it upon him regardless how long ago it was. Other thing people list was he was caught speeding or some other mickey mouse charge just to defame thing guy anyone possible.(GZ was a bed wetter back in grade school.....How can you trust him?) May be he downloaded 1000 of songs illegally too? Someone think of the children. I'm sorry I don't feel like GZ is a threat to anyone unless pushed into a corner like TM did.

If GZ was recklessly wielding his gun I'd be like yeah toss him in jail, but it was holstered till he was getting his face pounded in. If he was a seriously messed up guy I think he'd malfunctioned a lot sooner than this and actually screwed up this situation in a manner that pointed toward that possibility.(My cousin is someone whom I'd hope never has a gun. It would just get him in trouble. I don't picture GZ being remotely as ignorant with it as he would likely be.) How is not wanting to die reckless? Was he supposed to let the wookie win? How many blows to the head was GZ supposed to allow before he had eaten enough punches for your taste?

TM was yelling die Mutha F**ker while on time on GZ. GZ went thru all course and was legally able to carry a gun. He was legally able to ask questions and follow a kid if he felt like doing so. It's public property and both had the legal right to walk where they wanted in it. Whoever threw first punch is one who broke the law, and given GZ had the better hand in this game of poker, I doubt was him. He already called the cops and was waiting for them to get there. TM could have easily gotten away in time GZ lost him. TM didn't call the cops if he was scared. Given TM's aggressive natural it's far more likely he was the one who attacked first. Especially given how the first was going. Why would I root for this scum bag?

If GZ was a police officer and had a title from the state would you some how feel different about this? In the end whether guy had a badge he was legit, and in a situation where I'm sure a lot of people would wish they had a gun. People are dumb sometimes with the whole It's an official source...oh let's have blind faith in it then. My brother and brother in law both are cops and people sometimes get weird when they have their guns on them out of uniform. Like they're still cops, their training doesn't magically go away because they aren't in a uniform. GZ wanted to help his community and go a gun incase he ever got into an issue to defend himself. Like a fire extinguisher, incase of emergency break glass...that was a moment to use it. GZ pulled it out precisely when someone would want to have that...when faced with a threat that is beyond your ability and used mechanical advantage to even the odds. Otherwise what should we go by rules only strong survive or something? What did you want to happen here?

I put myself in GZ shoes. If I was attacked by TM I wouldn't have had a gun on me because I don't carry one. I would have probably had to kill TM too or very least mess him up in some serious fashion if things came to a head. I'm 5'4" and giving up entirely too much size to play nice with this guy.(he was 6'0" ish tall) I'd be striking vitals in a heartbeat to end him, taking out an eye, breaking limbs, I would use maximum force if I was attacked by someone like him and had no one around to stop it till I was certain I was no longer in danger. I'm not going to give him the chance to decide if he has enough mercy to not to kill me or inflict serious injury. I don't go around provoking fights as I haven't been in one in years. (Fought tons as a kid because I was an easy target in people's mind and had to defend myself. I grew up in a rough neighborhood where I was the minority.) I am not going yield my life or trust some random individual to not kill me because if they are crazy enough to attack me out of the blue...why should I believe they are going to stop? If I was GZ I'd pulled the trigger too. Why did GZ have any less of a right to live than TM did? Would his death somehow been a better outcome?

If I had the power to save someone from death that wasn't related to me or I closely knew....It would not be Trayvon Martin. I would not undo his fate. If had to be just some sad story I saw in the news, I'd save Faith Dremmer from death. A straight A student who was hit by a minivan when some old man accidentally hit and killed her while she was riding a bike with her friends. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-03-28/news/ct-met-dremmer-funeral-20100328_1_adoptive-anchee-min-mother I'd save the poor kid that died while everyone watched as he got beat to death and even filmed it a Chicago school, Derrion Albert. ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/27/beating-death-of-derrien_n_301319.html ) I would never waste my miracle on someone like TM. Nothing about his life gave my the slightest impression he'd ever go on to achieve anything good or helpful to anyone. All signs point to his fate did the world a favor.

On flip side if I raised a child as lousy as TM I'd hoped they d be killed for their stupidity than someone else pay for my half ass parenting. If I didn't instill enough wisdom to avoid this sort of fate than I did them a huge disservice. Children are what you put into them, and I take the notion of being a parent deadly serious. If you aren't going put into the effort....don't have kids.

J Tyran:

psijac:
snip for size

That is certainly interesting in general sort of interest way sure but its not entirely relevant or appropriate, Zimmertool could have killed Mr Martin in one punch just as easily. Just because something is possible it doesn't mean it would have happened, a meteorite might have come down and wiped out the whole neighborhood and stopped the fight. Sorry if that sounds insulting but its not meant to be, just pushing the possibilities to absurdity to press my point. The man who had his skull caved in has some nasty injuries, each of the eight times he was kicked and each of four times his head was hit off the pavement probably resulted in a series of accumulative injuries. When somebody is hit hard enough to endanger their lives its obvious by the injuries. I feel sorry for that man in the picture, Zimmertoad didnt even have a cut on his head from the impact though let alone anything like that.

If Mr Martin was a thief he was certainly not thieving at the time and nor was he equipped to do be doing so, if he was a thief all that means was he took things that where not his which in my mind doesn't warrant his death or the use of lethal force for no reason. Zimmertoad had a history of assaulting police officers and was under a restraining order for domestic violence, both men had questionable backgrounds.

The Trainer at his gym testified that while Zimmerman lost weight he gained no athletic ability. He was not a fighter. Which is probably why he carried a gun

image
notice the swollen nose

image

image

psijac:

J Tyran:

psijac:
snip for size

That is certainly interesting in general sort of interest way sure but its not entirely relevant or appropriate, Zimmertool could have killed Mr Martin in one punch just as easily. Just because something is possible it doesn't mean it would have happened, a meteorite might have come down and wiped out the whole neighborhood and stopped the fight. Sorry if that sounds insulting but its not meant to be, just pushing the possibilities to absurdity to press my point. The man who had his skull caved in has some nasty injuries, each of the eight times he was kicked and each of four times his head was hit off the pavement probably resulted in a series of accumulative injuries. When somebody is hit hard enough to endanger their lives its obvious by the injuries. I feel sorry for that man in the picture, Zimmertoad didnt even have a cut on his head from the impact though let alone anything like that.

If Mr Martin was a thief he was certainly not thieving at the time and nor was he equipped to do be doing so, if he was a thief all that means was he took things that where not his which in my mind doesn't warrant his death or the use of lethal force for no reason. Zimmertoad had a history of assaulting police officers and was under a restraining order for domestic violence, both men had questionable backgrounds.

The Trainer at his gym testified that while Zimmerman lost weight he gained no athletic ability. He was not a fighter. Which is probably why he carried a gun

image
notice the swollen nose

image

image

My own fault, I did say in an earlier post "cuts that needed stitches" not just "he didn't have cuts" and its my own fault I left it out. A swollen nose and a slight graze are nowhere near life threatening, you often see rugby players or boxers looking far worse than that.

psijac:

I think Both Travyon And Zimmerman were excellent judges of Character. Zimmerman knew Trayvon was up to no good and Trayvon knew he Zimmerman would go down like a bitch in a fight

Totally off topic, but that was fucking hilarious. Kudos my good sir.

J Tyran:

psijac:

J Tyran:

That is certainly interesting in general sort of interest way sure but its not entirely relevant or appropriate, Zimmertool could have killed Mr Martin in one punch just as easily. Just because something is possible it doesn't mean it would have happened, a meteorite might have come down and wiped out the whole neighborhood and stopped the fight. Sorry if that sounds insulting but its not meant to be, just pushing the possibilities to absurdity to press my point. The man who had his skull caved in has some nasty injuries, each of the eight times he was kicked and each of four times his head was hit off the pavement probably resulted in a series of accumulative injuries. When somebody is hit hard enough to endanger their lives its obvious by the injuries. I feel sorry for that man in the picture, Zimmertoad didnt even have a cut on his head from the impact though let alone anything like that.

If Mr Martin was a thief he was certainly not thieving at the time and nor was he equipped to do be doing so, if he was a thief all that means was he took things that where not his which in my mind doesn't warrant his death or the use of lethal force for no reason. Zimmertoad had a history of assaulting police officers and was under a restraining order for domestic violence, both men had questionable backgrounds.

The Trainer at his gym testified that while Zimmerman lost weight he gained no athletic ability. He was not a fighter. Which is probably why he carried a gun

image
notice the swollen nose

image

image

My own fault, I did say in an earlier post "cuts that needed stitches" not just "he didn't have cuts" and its my own fault I left it out. A swollen nose and a slight graze are nowhere near life threatening, you often see rugby players or boxers looking far worse than that.

Probably because No Limit Nigga is dead. Besides, it is only the perceived threat of death, not be beating till damn near death. There was a joke about that. "Liberals want you to the point of death before one defend themselves." You're close to that notion.

J Tyran:

LetalisK:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there has been very few "I know Zimmerman didn't do it" posts in relation to how many "There's not enough evidence".

There is ample evidence for every single thing I have claimed, although I am not claiming the same as what other people are claiming.

-fact, Zimmerturd was a violent man with a history of of crime related paranoia
-fact, he was following Mr Martin for no tangible or logical reason and then chased him through the back streets against advice
-fact, he had made is intent clear several times, both to not let the situation slide and through his frustration at Mr Martins temporary escape
-fact, Mr Martin was in fear for his safety
-fact, Mr Martin should have had a viable self defence claim and was not obligated to leave and by choosing to turn back did nothing wrong
-fact, there is no evidence behind Mr Martins intent to turn back or any room for reasonble speculation
-fact, there is no evidence about who started the fight in any event
-fact, there was a fight and Mr Martin was winning
-fact, Zimmertoads life was not in danger when he pulled the trigger

Therefore its pretty amusing to see people tubthumping about evidence when they are ignoring it themselves.

TheKasp:
He did neither stalk nor did he follow a kid nor did he have no 'fuckin' reason'.

What is wrong with you that you yell for blood of someone who got attacked and only defended himself in fear of his own life? (see how two can play the game)

17 years old is not a kid anymore, it is a teen that is pretty fucking close to adulthood.

Now please provide evidence for your claims.

Zimmertoad was recorded when he admitted to following Mr Martin. The tapes are there, go listen to them. Zimmertool did not see Mr Martin commit a crime either.

Please provide evidence that he was not following him, also please provide evidence that if he was following him he had good reason.

There are no eyewitnesses and no CCTV footage of the fight, noone apart from Zimmerturd knows what happened.

Please provide proof that Mr Martin threw the first punch.

There is no evidence that Zimmertools life was in danger, there is however evidence to suggest that it wasn't as the court approved medical examiner stated his injuries where insignificant and his injuries did not even receive hospital treatment.

If you want to claim his life was in danger please provide proof.

You are completely divorcing yourself from the events that actually happened, you are doing exactly the same as the people that are running around screaming that Zimmertoad is a racist murderer. You are just on the opposite side of the fence thats all.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.351325-Cop-Tasers-Fleeing-Handcuffed-Girl-Head-injuries-put-her-in-vegetative-state?page=1

there you go. on this very site, a woman to fell and hit her head, no outward trauma, buts she's vegetable now. DEATH OR SERIOUS BODILY HARM head wound are not something you FUCK AROUND WITH all it takes a little swelling in the wrong place, a broken blood vessel, or a dozen other things and you are either dead, a vegetable or retarded for life, and getting your head slammed on concrete is a GREAT way for one of those things to happen. To say his life was not in danger is and outright FUCKING LIE.

major_chaos:

J Tyran:

-fact, Zimmerturd was a violent man with a history of of crime related paranoia

First you are really hard to take seriously when you insist on littering your post with juvenile playground name calling. Second there is evidence that Trayvon wasn't exactly an upstanding member of society, so the pointless character attacks can work for either side.

You really shouldn't expect much from him. A person who cant make a good argument resorts to name calling. He knows he is wrong. He knows none of his bull stands up to facts or logic, so he has to call names.

dystopiaINC:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.351325-Cop-Tasers-Fleeing-Handcuffed-Girl-Head-injuries-put-her-in-vegetative-state?page=1

there you go. on this very site, a woman to fell and hit her head, no outward trauma, buts she's vegetable now. DEATH OR SERIOUS BODILY HARM head wound are not something you FUCK AROUND WITH all it takes a little swelling in the wrong place, a broken blood vessel, or a dozen other things and you are either dead, a vegetable or retarded for life, and getting your head slammed on concrete is a GREAT way for one of those things to happen. To say his life was not in danger is and outright FUCKING LIE.

Mr Martin could have survived being shot in the head too,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12160874

Lots of things could happen, but could =/= would. As Zimmers did not even have a concussion any serious brain injury was unlikely. It takes a minimum of 90-100g to cause a concussion, compare that to the average heavy weight boxer whose punches measure about 50g its highly unlikely Zimmers would have suffered any serious or fatal brain injury.

To say anything else is either an outright lie or incredibly misinformed.

Desert Punk:

major_chaos:

J Tyran:

-fact, Zimmerturd was a violent man with a history of of crime related paranoia

First you are really hard to take seriously when you insist on littering your post with juvenile playground name calling. Second there is evidence that Trayvon wasn't exactly an upstanding member of society, so the pointless character attacks can work for either side.

You really shouldn't expect much from him. A person who cant make a good argument resorts to name calling. He knows he is wrong. He knows none of his bull stands up to facts or logic, so he has to call names.

The words pot and kettle come to mind, I have backed up much of what I have said with the actual evidence that was used in the not guilty verdict. Plus I called a violent and paranoid killer names, unlike some people on this forum that do not like what I have to say and have directed insults at me personally.

Yeah, think about that for a second.

J Tyran:

dystopiaINC:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.351325-Cop-Tasers-Fleeing-Handcuffed-Girl-Head-injuries-put-her-in-vegetative-state?page=1

there you go. on this very site, a woman to fell and hit her head, no outward trauma, buts she's vegetable now. DEATH OR SERIOUS BODILY HARM head wound are not something you FUCK AROUND WITH all it takes a little swelling in the wrong place, a broken blood vessel, or a dozen other things and you are either dead, a vegetable or retarded for life, and getting your head slammed on concrete is a GREAT way for one of those things to happen. To say his life was not in danger is and outright FUCKING LIE.

Mr Martin could have survived being shot in the head too,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12160874

Lots of things could happen, but could =/= would. As Zimmers did not even have a concussion any serious brain injury was unlikely. It takes a minimum of 90-100g to cause a concussion, compare that to the average heavy weight boxer whose punches measure about 50g its highly unlikely Martin would suffer any serious or fatal brain injury.

To say anything else is either an outright lie or incredibly misinformed.

Wow really?

I didn't want to do this but here you go,
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/05/us/utah-soccer-death

So getting Punched in the head is not potentially Lethal huh? guess you should tell this guys family that

J Tyran:

Along with you yes, you have resorted to insults too so you have no room to judge me and if I am in fourth grade for it you must be too. Also look at it like this, I insulted a paranoid & violent fruitloop[1] of a killer yet you are aiming insults at me.

If I could be bothered I might sit and have a think about what they says about you.

Its not just the childish insults, its your insistence on calling the *sarcastic air quotes* "victim" "Mr Martin", like he was deserving of respect instead of a thief, a vandal, and a thug that really pushes your posts into absurdity.

[1] which is matter of public record (citation needed)

dystopiaINC:

J Tyran:

dystopiaINC:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.351325-Cop-Tasers-Fleeing-Handcuffed-Girl-Head-injuries-put-her-in-vegetative-state?page=1

there you go. on this very site, a woman to fell and hit her head, no outward trauma, buts she's vegetable now. DEATH OR SERIOUS BODILY HARM head wound are not something you FUCK AROUND WITH all it takes a little swelling in the wrong place, a broken blood vessel, or a dozen other things and you are either dead, a vegetable or retarded for life, and getting your head slammed on concrete is a GREAT way for one of those things to happen. To say his life was not in danger is and outright FUCKING LIE.

Mr Martin could have survived being shot in the head too,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12160874

Lots of things could happen, but could =/= would. As Zimmers did not even have a concussion any serious brain injury was unlikely. It takes a minimum of 90-100g to cause a concussion, compare that to the average heavy weight boxer whose punches measure about 50g its highly unlikely Martin would suffer any serious or fatal brain injury.

To say anything else is either an outright lie or incredibly misinformed.

Wow really?

I didn't want to do this but here you go,
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/05/us/utah-soccer-death

So getting Punched in the head is not potentially Lethal huh? guess you should tell this guys family that

I never said not "potentially Lethal" please go back and point out where I said that, if you cannot we have nothing further to discuss.

major_chaos:

J Tyran:

Along with you yes, you have resorted to insults too so you have no room to judge me and if I am in fourth grade for it you must be too. Also look at it like this, I insulted a paranoid & violent fruitloop[1] of a killer yet you are aiming insults at me.

If I could be bothered I might sit and have a think about what they says about you.

Its not just the childish insults, its your insistence on calling the *sarcastic air quotes* "victim" "Mr Martin", like he was deserving of respect instead of a thief, a vandal, and a thug that really pushes your posts into absurdity.

Ah well we are coming to the heart of it then, well let me explain this. Both men received character assassinations in the media and a lot of it was out of order, the thing to remember is that Mr Martin had never been arrested or ever charged for anything and there was never any actual evidence of his wrong doing when the police got involved. His history suggests he was a troubled young man and got himself suspended from school that smoked weed. He might have come good one day (unlikely) or he might have gone onto worse, if that was the case it would have been a matter for the authorities

Zimmertoad had assaulted a police officer and was under a restraining order for domestic violence however, he might also have come good one day too but in this case he created a situation that killed a young man.

Why should my contempt for his killer make me the target of insults? You have admitted why, you feel that because I do not respect him but respect the dead man whose reputation was mostly a bunch of hearsay and the fact he smoked weed and had some fights.

[1] which is matter of public record (citation needed) here you go http://www.politicolnews.com/the-george-zimmermans-list-of-calls-to-police/

J Tyran:

dystopiaINC:

J Tyran:

Mr Martin could have survived being shot in the head too,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12160874

Lots of things could happen, but could =/= would. As Zimmers did not even have a concussion any serious brain injury was unlikely. It takes a minimum of 90-100g to cause a concussion, compare that to the average heavy weight boxer whose punches measure about 50g its highly unlikely Martin would suffer any serious or fatal brain injury.

To say anything else is either an outright lie or incredibly misinformed.

Wow really?

I didn't want to do this but here you go,
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/05/us/utah-soccer-death

So getting Punched in the head is not potentially Lethal huh? guess you should tell this guys family that

I never said not "potentially Lethal" please go back and point out where I said that, if you cannot we have nothing further to discuss.

You said it's "highly unlikely" which is the whole point, it still happens every year. people die from street beat-downs every year, over 800 deaths from hands and feet in the US alone in just 2009. just because it's "Unlikely" doesn't mean Zimmerman had to let martin have his way with him. he was justified in ending the fight then. that. second. he didn't have to take ONE. MORE. PUNCH. just because all of his injuries were not life threatening does NOT mean the next hit was NOT going to cause a concussion, or knock him out. he had the absolute right to ensure that DIDN'T happen because that is more than enough danger to use deadly force.

dystopiaINC:

J Tyran:

dystopiaINC:

Wow really?

I didn't want to do this but here you go,
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/05/us/utah-soccer-death

So getting Punched in the head is not potentially Lethal huh? guess you should tell this guys family that

I never said not "potentially Lethal" please go back and point out where I said that, if you cannot we have nothing further to discuss.

You said it's "highly unlikely" which is the whole point, it still happens every year. people die from street beat-downs every year, over 800 deaths from hands and feet in the US alone in just 2009. just because it's "Unlikely" doesn't mean Zimmerman had to let martin have his way with him. he was justified in ending the fight then. that. second. he didn't have to take ONE. MORE. PUNCH. just because all of his injuries were not life threatening does NOT mean the next hit was NOT going to cause a concussion, or knock him out. he had the absolute right to ensure that DIDN'T happen because that is more than enough danger to use deadly force.

Do you know how many serious assaults there where in the US in 2009? over 800,000 so if 800 people died in fist fights its not even one percent in comparison to how many serious assaults happened that year. Which again shows he was not likely to receive serious injury.

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