"Gamers" Are Still Dead, Y'all

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sexy lusor:

Yes, it's OKAY for people to shamelessly engage in some FUCKING ESCAPISM.
What's wrong with you?!
Do you know what the word even means?! The crazy word at the door to the office?!

Nobody said it wasn't.

The majority of rebuttals in this thread so far have been rebuttals to things the author never said.

sexy lusor:

Stangely enough, movies are still full of beautiful people that get more nakid every decade. How spectacular was Gabourey Sidibe's career again, pray tell?

And here it is: the point at which an argument about how we should be able to enjoy whatever we want, inevitably devolves into insulting and berating things other people like.

Jonbodhi:
As I said, I reconsidered my first, far less polite response, but it seems my reaction wasn't atypical. Your concern about 'hostility' seems to mask a remarkable talent for inspiring it.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Maybe - MAYBE - there are arguments on this subject that haven't been made yet and need to, but that article is a case study on how not to do it.

Well, I gave it a few days, and all we got was evasion and denial. I simply can't believe that someone who has been an active moderator on this site could fail to see a Leigh Alexander-referencing article titled "Gamers Are Dead" as anything but deliberate provocation. It's not like we haven't been discussing that very piece of garbage on these forums for years, and crediting The Escapist for not jumping on that bandwagon drunkenly careening off a cliff.

So this just to inform any relevant staff that I have canceled the automated payment for my subscription to the Publishers' Club as of now. This decision was made as a direct response to this article, so you can consider it feedback about your new direction as a publication. Thanks for past good work, but I will not be following you where you appear to be heading, and certainly not as a proud supporter.

The "gamer" identity has become completely meaningless and antiquated.

My 78 year old grandfather plays games on his iPad. Playing games is no longer a niche hobby, and that fact makes a select few people extremely butthurt because it's the only identity they really have.

American Tanker:
"Gamers" never died. We're just in the process of respawning.

And when that's done, we'll purge the political bullshit from our games, and stand vigilant until the end of time to ensure it fucking stays out.

"stop playing Euro CUCK Simulator 2 this instant libtard. get redpilled fam, it's globalist EU propaganda that supports open borders."

1/10, made me cringe

StatusNil:
Well, I gave it a few days, and all we got was evasion and denial. I simply can't believe that someone who has been an active moderator on this site could fail to see a Leigh Alexander-referencing article titled "Gamers Are Dead" as anything but deliberate provocation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_is_dead

ResonanceSD:
Ask for the money up front. This website is a classic for not paying contributors.

You have a better chance of picking a perfect March Madness college basketball bracket.

someguy1231:
Any such distinction ultimately comes down to "sexy I like" and "sexy I don't like", respectively.

I'm sure that plenty of folks who like schoolgirl tentacle porn at midnight were upset with it being a joke interrupting a first-person shooter that can't decide how serious it is.

Besides, you're talking about fictional characters here. Fictional characters, by their very nature, can't be "exploited". They have no backs to break or feelings to hurt.

If that is the case then why would anybody have a favourite character? If they are just pixels then people would not attach any value to the characters or the stories told in a game. Either works of fiction have value or they do not have value. Pick one. Either games can be art, protected by speech rights and are open to criticism or they are culturally irrelevant, can't be easily restricted or banned, can be singled out as taxable and you will be viewed as an imbecile for being an adult spending thousands of dollars and thousands of hours on the equivalant of a baby's rattle.

I would prefer a few people shrieking a moral panic and criticizing a videogame on a Youtube video with a few thousand views to a few people shrieking in congress to put a 12% tax on all games that have an E+10, T or M rating and then the politicians put it through because not enough people care enough about videogames for it to not benefit them or making a law so that you can't shoot a servicemember of the country in question.

A Fork:
You implicitly tie this to GG in the title, and the first line is passing judgement on the stereotype gamers usually think themselves as.

1. Its actually Nietzsche. "God is dead" is not an actual declaration of mortality, its a declarating by Nietzsche that the concept of god (and thus godliness) no longer existed in the way that it once did. Likewise "gamers are dead" would logically mean that "gamers" as a concept of what it once was, meaning this:

image

is no longer an accurate representation of the world they live.

2. Even if you don't understand the reference to Nietzsche this article (and the original one from 2014) explain it fairly clearly to anybody willing to read.

3. Most gamers don't think of themselves and all others sharing the hobby as the WoW guy from South Park - fat, lazy, unhygienic, asocical, and antisocial. Most of us recognize that its an unfair depiction painted by certain individuals to bash people participating in a hobby they don't like, no different from fans of the rock, punk, or rap music genres. If somebody sees a toxic strawman of themselves they shouldn't embrace it. If somebody embraced calling the other people the n word on Xbox Live because that is the negative stereotype then tough titties.

I really, really hope that one of your motivations wasn't to expose how terrible gamers are, because anyone could see this coming. I mean, GID is right next door.

This resigned attitude is the greater issue. Who is worse, the person who commits evil or the people who does nothing to stop it when it is within their power?

Think what would happen if any athlete called an opposing player the n word disparagingly during a match and the audio was caught any played live? They would be ejected from the game and fired before the next morning. What if somebody was mildly frustrated during Hollywood Game Night and called somebody on the other team the n word on live television? They would lose every endorsement and job they have before midnight. The biggest gaming celebrity calls a competitor the n word on a livestream in front of thousands of children (who make up the plurality of his fanbase) and does anything happen? Not really. In fact his fanbase goes into overdrive defending the use of the word, teaching children that it is okay to call other people racial slurs when you are frustrated and having the audacity to question whether the n word is racially charged at all and lower the collective bar for all of humanity by another couple hundred feet just to defend PewDiePie. PewDiePie. You know, the guy whose cultural contribution to gaming is pretending to be unreasonaby scared by jump scare horror games.

If you set no moral standards for anybody to be a representative of the community then you deserve the bad reputation because you would have earned it.

StatusNil:

So this just to inform any relevant staff that I have canceled the automated payment for my subscription to the Publishers' Club as of now.

What the hell? You still chumped up the money every month? What the fuck for?

ResonanceSD:

What the hell? You still chumped up the money every month? What the fuck for?

Not every month, it was an annual payment of 20 bucks. And it was because this site did the right thing once in a major way, and I was hoping it would still bounce back from its coma. But apparently its twitching is just a sign of becoming a zombie.

What can I say, I value loyalty and try to practice it when I can. Suffice to say my view on betrayal is somewhat complementary.

Awww man I laughed so hard first time I read this. Thought it was one of these click-bait, tongue in cheek, mocking pieces Escapist put up recently. But then I noticed Troy's video on this and over 300 comments and author just digging himself deeper and deeper and actually being serious.

All I have to say is I am really disappointed that Robert gets a boot from The Escapist (as much as I usually not agree with his conclusions) and at the same time such raving lunacy gets a platform.
Troy and honestly a lot of people posting FB comments (out of reach of moderation...) directly under article summed up already most of devisive lies author is guilty of so I won't bother.

All I have to add is that I hoped for Escapist return to being a portal about games and things gamers are interested in but that fizzled out with such nonsense being 'featured'.

I shall leave you with this: a response from the Honey Badger Brigade.

Escapist done fucked up. This article should have been killed with fire before it was ever posted.

StatusNil:

Not every month, it was an annual payment of 20 bucks. And it was because this site did the right thing once in a major way, and I was hoping it would still bounce back from its coma. But apparently its twitching is just a sign of becoming a zombie.

Jamcie Kerbizz:

All I have to add is that I hoped for Escapist return to being a portal about games and things gamers are interested in but that fizzled out with such nonsense being 'featured'.

Sure, the website that alienated both a huge swath of it's audience and most it's content creators, save one, was going to rebound in an age where all of it's peers are struggling to make ends meet.

American Tanker:
I shall leave you with this: a response from the Honey Badger Brigade.

Escapist done fucked up. This article should have been killed with fire before it was ever posted.

...well that was hilarious. I really hope the guy who wrote that wasn't planning on being taken seriously, because boy, did he fail at that. I've read Tumblr posts that were less emotional.

Wrex Brogan:

American Tanker:
I shall leave you with this: a response from the Honey Badger Brigade.

Escapist done fucked up. This article should have been killed with fire before it was ever posted.

...well that was hilarious. I really hope the guy who wrote that wasn't planning on being taken seriously, because boy, did he fail at that. I've read Tumblr posts that were less emotional.

Also I showed you where else this idiot writes. Feel free to let their advertisers know they are supporting someone that assaults their audience for liking what they like

"Assaults"? Good job in debunking the allegations of the toxicity in gaming community! Well freaking done! /s

CaitSeith:

Wrex Brogan:

American Tanker:
I shall leave you with this: a response from the Honey Badger Brigade.

Escapist done fucked up. This article should have been killed with fire before it was ever posted.

...well that was hilarious. I really hope the guy who wrote that wasn't planning on being taken seriously, because boy, did he fail at that. I've read Tumblr posts that were less emotional.

Also I showed you where else this idiot writes. Feel free to let their advertisers know they are supporting someone that assaults their audience for liking what they like

"Assaults"? Good job in debunking the allegations of the toxicity in gaming community! Well freaking done! /s

Not triggered though. So totally not triggered.

RoxTheMeme:
The "gamer" identity has become completely meaningless and antiquated.

My 78 year old grandfather plays games on his iPad. Playing games is no longer a niche hobby, and that fact makes a select few people extremely butthurt because it's the only identity they really have.

Really?!?

If anything, that to me means the gamer identity is adapting, and evolving. Not dying.

MrFalconfly:

RoxTheMeme:
The "gamer" identity has become completely meaningless and antiquated.

My 78 year old grandfather plays games on his iPad. Playing games is no longer a niche hobby, and that fact makes a select few people extremely butthurt because it's the only identity they really have.

Really?!?

If anything, that to me means the gamer identity is adapting, and evolving. Not dying.

It's "adapting and evolving" into irrelevance. And about time.

American Tanker:
I shall leave you with this: a response from the Honey Badger Brigade.

Escapist done fucked up. This article should have been killed with fire before it was ever posted.

It never ceases to amaze me how self-described members of the anti-political correctness, pro-free speech crowd suddenly turtle from their supposed values and publicly wet themselves because of an article like this, labelling it as an "assault."

It's yet another example of "Gamer Correctness" -- you can say anything you want, but don't you DARE say anything bad about gamers and gamer culture because.

McMarbles:

MrFalconfly:

RoxTheMeme:
The "gamer" identity has become completely meaningless and antiquated.

My 78 year old grandfather plays games on his iPad. Playing games is no longer a niche hobby, and that fact makes a select few people extremely butthurt because it's the only identity they really have.

Really?!?

If anything, that to me means the gamer identity is adapting, and evolving. Not dying.

It's "adapting and evolving" into irrelevance. And about time.

Nope. It's staying relevant, in a new way, by adapting and evolving into something new.

As RoxTheMeme said. Even our 70-something grandparents play games now a days.

Sure, the "gamer" identity may not be a super-exclusive identity, but neither is petrolhead.

No one has said that an identity label needs to be exclusive to a small group of people. The more, the merrier I say.

MrFalconfly:

McMarbles:

MrFalconfly:

Really?!?

If anything, that to me means the gamer identity is adapting, and evolving. Not dying.

It's "adapting and evolving" into irrelevance. And about time.

Nope. It's staying relevant, in a new way, by adapting and evolving into something new.

As RoxTheMeme said. Even our 70-something grandparents play games now a days.

Sure, the "gamer" identity may not be a super-exclusive identity, but neither is petrolhead.

No one has said that an identity label needs to be exclusive to a small group of people. The more, the merrier I say.

In other words, a goddamned hobby, not a way of life.

McMarbles:

MrFalconfly:

McMarbles:

It's "adapting and evolving" into irrelevance. And about time.

Nope. It's staying relevant, in a new way, by adapting and evolving into something new.

As RoxTheMeme said. Even our 70-something grandparents play games now a days.

Sure, the "gamer" identity may not be a super-exclusive identity, but neither is petrolhead.

No one has said that an identity label needs to be exclusive to a small group of people. The more, the merrier I say.

In other words, a goddamned hobby, not a way of life.

That depends on the individual.

Point is, just because something isn't static, doesn't meant it's dying (in fact, it's the exact opposite. If it was static, and refused to adapt, it would die).

MrFalconfly:

McMarbles:

MrFalconfly:

Nope. It's staying relevant, in a new way, by adapting and evolving into something new.

As RoxTheMeme said. Even our 70-something grandparents play games now a days.

Sure, the "gamer" identity may not be a super-exclusive identity, but neither is petrolhead.

No one has said that an identity label needs to be exclusive to a small group of people. The more, the merrier I say.

In other words, a goddamned hobby, not a way of life.

That depends on the individual.

Point is, just because something isn't static, doesn't meant it's dying (in fact, it's the exact opposite. If it was static, and refused to adapt, it would die).

And it's adapted into "thing a broad range of people do." It's no more an identity than "bus rider" or "sandwich eater" or "moviegoer". It's not a culture, and it doesn't make you some sort of oppressed subgroup whose fee-fees must constantly be tiptoed upon.

McMarbles:

MrFalconfly:

McMarbles:

In other words, a goddamned hobby, not a way of life.

That depends on the individual.

Point is, just because something isn't static, doesn't meant it's dying (in fact, it's the exact opposite. If it was static, and refused to adapt, it would die).

And it's adapted into "thing a broad range of people do." It's no more an identity than "bus rider" or "sandwich eater" or "moviegoer". It's not a culture, and it doesn't make you some sort of oppressed subgroup whose fee-fees must constantly be tiptoed upon.

Humanity used to be just a species of slightly more intelligent ape on the savanna. Now we're a global species unwittingly terraforming the planet.

Why does it have to be a "supah sillious, supah exwusive" thing?

MrFalconfly:

McMarbles:

MrFalconfly:

That depends on the individual.

Point is, just because something isn't static, doesn't meant it's dying (in fact, it's the exact opposite. If it was static, and refused to adapt, it would die).

And it's adapted into "thing a broad range of people do." It's no more an identity than "bus rider" or "sandwich eater" or "moviegoer". It's not a culture, and it doesn't make you some sort of oppressed subgroup whose fee-fees must constantly be tiptoed upon.

Humanity used to be just a species of slightly more intelligent ape on the savanna. Now we're a global species unwittingly terraforming the planet.

Why does it have to be a "supah sillious, supah exwusive" thing?

What the fuck are you even talking about?

Murlin:

MrFalconfly:

McMarbles:

And it's adapted into "thing a broad range of people do." It's no more an identity than "bus rider" or "sandwich eater" or "moviegoer". It's not a culture, and it doesn't make you some sort of oppressed subgroup whose fee-fees must constantly be tiptoed upon.

Humanity used to be just a species of slightly more intelligent ape on the savanna. Now we're a global species unwittingly terraforming the planet.

Why does it have to be a "supah sillious, supah exwusive" thing?

What the fuck are you even talking about?

Gaming culture.

Whether it's "dead", or it has adapted.

My argument is that it has adapted (which would make the old stereotype irrelevant).

McMarbles:

And it's adapted into "thing a broad range of people do." It's no more an identity than "bus rider" or "sandwich eater" or "moviegoer". It's not a culture, and it doesn't make you some sort of oppressed subgroup whose fee-fees must constantly be tiptoed upon.

It was always just a hobby.

As the saying goes, there is nothing more serious as a hobby. One of the only things people willingly do with their free time and close friends.

When a hobby stops being a niche thing and becomes part of the larger society, people usually stop referring to it in terms of nicknames for the people who consume it. And that is because everyone is consuming it. It's something we see with movies and books. There aren't really names for the general whole of people who watch movies or read books because it's something everyone does, the same is happening to gaming.

What we do see in those things are specific names to describe the hardcore of them, IE Film buffs, or Book enthusiasts. But the difference is that those are used to describe people who wish to take the discourse of a subject and bring it to a higher understanding. You get people who wish to talk about how a film or movie can change society, or influence the minds of the people who read or watch something. And you never, EVER get this phrase.

" It's just a BLANK. " No Film enthusiast will ever counter an argument about a film influencing someone and respond with It's just a film, don't think too hard about it. or It's just a book, it doesn't matter let me have fun. They'll acknowledge problems in the medium and refute it with things that they took from the book or film stating it's value.

Anyone downplaying the importance or influence of something they call themselves part of would be laughed out.

If "Gamers" is going to persist as an moniker then it needs to represent something other than someone who simply plays games. It needs to describe people who delve deep into what gaming and games can do to change and influence the world as a whole. It needs to be about the people that talk about the good and the bad of a medium they purport to love.

Winnosh:
If "Gamers" is going to persist as an moniker then it needs to represent something other than someone who simply plays games. It needs to describe people who delve deep into what gaming and games can do to change and influence the world as a whole. It needs to be about the people that talk about the good and the bad of a medium they purport to love.

Such pointless navel-gazing isn't necessary.

Look at car enthusiasts. Gun enthusiasts. A lot of people own cars and guns, and yet there still exists a niche and culture around those two things. People modify cars and guns. They follow media that talks about both future developments and the historical development of cars and guns. They might be interested in the influence of these things, but usually in a historical context of how it shaped human civilization. But your enthusiast isn't going to really care how cars and guns are going to shape the future of human society. A gun enthusiast might just want to see an applicable rail gun. A car enthusiast may just want to see a fully electric car or a self-driving car. They don't necessarily need to think about the impact of such developments. That's navel-gazing.

A movie enthusiast doesn't need to delve into how a film changes and influences the world if they're focused entirely on the art of special effects, especially pre-CGI effects. They could care less about how it "influences" the world. No one looks at Jason and the Argonauts and goes "wow, what a world influencer." They admire the animated skeletons and what could be achieved in 1963 and a movie buff into special effects would know how that was achieved.

It's pretty easy to see where Gamers fall vs "people who play games." Everyone plays board games. It's the guy with a massive cabinet of crap you aren't going to find at Toys R Us or Target who are 'board game enthusiasts." Those people don't sit there and say "Carcassone, how is it shaping the world?"

A lot of people have read at least one comic book in their life. But it's the person with the posters, toys and massive wall of trades who is a comics enthusiast. And odds are that person doesn't care much beyond good stories and good art. Yes, comics have had good, insightful stories, but a comic book fan isn't going to hand-wring over the social influence of Action Comics #596.

People looking for media created with the intent to make money to always have some sort of influence are going to be sorely disappointed. And perhaps that's why the comics industry is failing. It's got creators more obsessed with their own ego-driven tripe rather than trying to sell books.

McMarbles:

MrFalconfly:

RoxTheMeme:
The "gamer" identity has become completely meaningless and antiquated.

My 78 year old grandfather plays games on his iPad. Playing games is no longer a niche hobby, and that fact makes a select few people extremely butthurt because it's the only identity they really have.

Really?!?

If anything, that to me means the gamer identity is adapting, and evolving. Not dying.

It's "adapting and evolving" into irrelevance. And about time.

Punk's died, like, a dozen times for the same reason.

Exley97:

American Tanker:
I shall leave you with this: a response from the Honey Badger Brigade.

Escapist done fucked up. This article should have been killed with fire before it was ever posted.

It never ceases to amaze me how self-described members of the anti-political correctness, pro-free speech crowd suddenly turtle from their supposed values and publicly wet themselves because of an article like this, labelling it as an "assault."

It's yet another example of "Gamer Correctness" -- you can say anything you want, but don't you DARE say anything bad about gamers and gamer culture because.

I think the term free speech and the nature of consequences for free speech must still be leaving you confounded as to meaning or intent, let me explain the basics here since it is a shame that a journalist would be confused by such simple matters.

As you have stated before with smug self importance free speech is not freedom from consistence. But what is the consequence? There is the rub. You could for example choose not to purchase things or view content but the most common form on consequence is simple more speech which is what you see here.

The problem people take with your censorious ilk is simple your version of consequence is people should be jailed or removed from their means of employment as such a consistence as opposed to simple avoidance or additional speech which are the valid consequences.

Mazinger-Z:

People looking for media created with the intent to make money to always have some sort of influence are going to be sorely disappointed. And perhaps that's why the comics industry is failing. It's got creators more obsessed with their own ego-driven tripe rather than trying to sell books.

Minor disagree: comics, floppy comics at least, are failing because the comics industry still thinks it's 1988. They learned nothing from the comic book crash. They're so utterly convinced that they're the next Garth Ennis, Alan Moore, or Neil Gaiman that they keep apeing their styles without understanding what made their stories great.

Which is why we get shit like Secret Empire, seconds worst selling event of its length in Marvel history. It only beat out AXIS overall, and that one started with a Red Skull eating Xavier's brain to get telepathic powers and got dumber from there.

altnameJag:
Which is why we get shit like Secret Empire, seconds worst selling event of its length in Marvel history. It only beat out AXIS overall, and that one started with a Red Skull eating Xavier's brain to get telepathic powers and got dumber from there.

Axis was terrible for a variety of reasons. Secret Empire was roundly defended as searing social commentary from Nick Spencer that probably had some sort of course correction when Marvel higher-ups thought "hey, maybe people don't want this drek." Which is why the wrap-up had a bad deus ex machina and we're in the middle of Marvel Legacy, which is still terrible.

Marvel needs a "Rebirth" because DC's doing well, even taking the natural decay of comics sales overall into account. They're killing Marvel.

ScaredIndie:

Exley97:

American Tanker:
I shall leave you with this: a response from the Honey Badger Brigade.

Escapist done fucked up. This article should have been killed with fire before it was ever posted.

It never ceases to amaze me how self-described members of the anti-political correctness, pro-free speech crowd suddenly turtle from their supposed values and publicly wet themselves because of an article like this, labelling it as an "assault."

It's yet another example of "Gamer Correctness" -- you can say anything you want, but don't you DARE say anything bad about gamers and gamer culture because.

I think the term free speech and the nature of consequences for free speech must still be leaving you confounded as to meaning or intent, let me explain the basics here since it is a shame that a journalist would be confused by such simple matters.

As you have stated before with smug self importance free speech is not freedom from consistence. But what is the consequence? There is the rub. You could for example choose not to purchase things or view content but the most common form on consequence is simple more speech which is what you see here.

The problem people take with your censorious ilk is simple your version of consequence is people should be jailed or removed from their means of employment as such a consistence as opposed to simple avoidance or additional speech which are the valid consequences.

I know what free speech is and isn't. I'm talking about hypocrisy of the Honey Badger Brigade and its ilk. They write article after article about how political correctness is bad in virtually every context -- race, religion, class, gender -- until suddenly someone criticizes gamers. So they play the anti-PC tough guy role and complain about how fragile the snowflakes are and how too many people get their underwear twisted up and that words can't hurt people -- until someone writes "gamers are still over."

Then it's an assault. (LOL...)

I'm not arguing there can't be consequences for speech. I'm arguing that you incessantly complain about political correctness, and then turn around and practice the very thing you supposedly abhor, then you're a hypocrite.

Mazinger-Z:

altnameJag:
Which is why we get shit like Secret Empire, seconds worst selling event of its length in Marvel history. It only beat out AXIS overall, and that one started with a Red Skull eating Xavier's brain to get telepathic powers and got dumber from there.

Axis was terrible for a variety of reasons. Secret Empire was roundly defended as searing social commentary from Nick Spencer that probably had some sort of course correction when Marvel higher-ups thought "hey, maybe people don't want this drek." Which is why the wrap-up had a bad deus ex machina and we're in the middle of Marvel Legacy, which is still terrible.

Marvel needs a "Rebirth" because DC's doing well, even taking the natural decay of comics sales overall into account. They're killing Marvel.

...not really.

Marvel's market share (for floppies, nobody has data for online stuff) keeps hovering between 34% and 38%, and DC's keeps hovering between 26%-30%. And that's with a lot of DC comics printing twice a month.

ICv2 is chock full of interesting stats and analysis about physical comics sales.

NewClassic:
"Gamers" Are Still Dead, Y'all

The image most of the world has of "gamers" is slowly fading away, but those holding onto it are keeping the culture drowning in a quagmire of toxicity.

Read Full Article

Wow, the things that get you to de-lurk after nearly a year of only visiting for Yahtzee.

I think a lot of the issue is in the misconception of this

All of these things seem to stem from the same idea: What games have been for the past forty or so years must remain the only thing games are allowed to be.

I often find it amazing how many people mistake a resistance to detrimental change with a resistance to change itself. This doesn't mean any change considered is detrimental, but it's usually poorly sold, if not totally as a one sided thing. We're expected to change not for any benefit to ourselves, or at least not one we value, but because other people want us to. Take, the sexuality thing. I don't care if you approve of what I play or don't and think gaming offers a lot that doesn't far too far into that stereotype if it isn't your thing. A part of me even outright likes some series that are so in your face as if to challenge the idea that sex and sexuality should remain in our private internet history and not be a part of larger entertainment. But then someone like you comes along more concerned with a wider image, and I fall too easily into being "toxic" simply for not going along with what you want even though you've given me no reason I value to do so. Sell me why this is better for me and I can at least consider it. However calls for the gamer community to change are led by 3 types:

The Counter snob: The harsh, judgmental jerk that (possibly without realizing it) looks down on anything less than their view of high culture. It's not enough to dislike and ignore it. It must be lionized, with anything less seen as boorish swill for the less desirableness. This can be a number of reason, but it's never about the changed person's benefit. It's all about a superiority complex and the ability to look down on others, and then crying that they in turn look down on you.

The moral crusader: These are a tangent of the last item, save they can't shut up off game. People with different values and opinions threaten them and they have to shout down everything while prosthelytizing their own values at all times, and having them prosthelytzed as much as possible. People aren't people with the right to choose for themselves and are expected to just give up what they believe because someone else thinks they must to be a good person.

The shit developer: Not to be harsh, but between delays, broken marketing promises, broken games, and a long list of consumer unfriendly practices, the game industry doesn't have a lot of ground to argue they don't deserve some toxicity. Often this comes up not as if we're asking too much, but that we're asking for anything at all. Wanting a working product on time is somehow entitled and those that can't provide, can't even show guilt for doing so. The end user isn't supposed to have expectations, but just go with any and everything because the the all important developer.

All of these come down to seeing gamers as things for others' purposes, and when we bite back, we're just so toxic, but I can't see how for any other reason than we're just expected to fall into line with anything put in front of us. If you want to end this, stop, look down or in a mirror, and ask if you've ever given us a reason to be anything less, because while gaming isn't all about us, it isn't all about you either, and I'm not forfeiting a vote, or changing just to be liked.

image

I mean sure, the OP picked the tune but we all thundered onto the dance floor to continually serve each other with discussions that remind me of an episode of Yu-Gi-Oh with each participant busting out a fucking trap card every other turn.

Exley97:

ScaredIndie:

Exley97:

It never ceases to amaze me how self-described members of the anti-political correctness, pro-free speech crowd suddenly turtle from their supposed values and publicly wet themselves because of an article like this, labelling it as an "assault."

It's yet another example of "Gamer Correctness" -- you can say anything you want, but don't you DARE say anything bad about gamers and gamer culture because.

I think the term free speech and the nature of consequences for free speech must still be leaving you confounded as to meaning or intent, let me explain the basics here since it is a shame that a journalist would be confused by such simple matters.

As you have stated before with smug self importance free speech is not freedom from consistence. But what is the consequence? There is the rub. You could for example choose not to purchase things or view content but the most common form on consequence is simple more speech which is what you see here.

The problem people take with your censorious ilk is simple your version of consequence is people should be jailed or removed from their means of employment as such a consistence as opposed to simple avoidance or additional speech which are the valid consequences.

I know what free speech is and isn't. I'm talking about hypocrisy of the Honey Badger Brigade and its ilk. They write article after article about how political correctness is bad in virtually every context -- race, religion, class, gender -- until suddenly someone criticizes gamers. So they play the anti-PC tough guy role and complain about how fragile the snowflakes are and how too many people get their underwear twisted up and that words can't hurt people -- until someone writes "gamers are still over."

Then it's an assault. (LOL...)

I'm not arguing there can't be consequences for speech. I'm arguing that you incessantly complain about political correctness, and then turn around and practice the very thing you supposedly abhor, then you're a hypocrite.

I feel like you don't really understand free speech. It means people are free to criticize what ever they like. It's not hypocritical for example to say I don't appreciate journalists being anti gamer by and large within the games industry while also saying the honey badgers should be ousted from a convention and then subsequently swatted for holding the "wrong views". I'm not sure what to say to you if you think those things are on the same level.

But hey modern social justice is built on "rules for thee and not for me" so I am gonna guess that is where the confusion comes in around the concept of speech and consequence.

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