Left 4 Dead 2: Why the Boycott Is a Good Thing

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So when are the Madden, FIFA, NFL, NHL, Tiger Woods and Pokemon boycotts happening?

I've been playing L4D since it came out, and I like it a lot. It's the only game I play on XBL, and the criticisms that it was shipped incomplete are justified I think. (I should note that my experience here is console only. I realize the PC experience is different w/mod add ons and soforth)

4 maps, only 2 of which you could play vs on; this is short. The updates that I got really just made the game feel like; ok this is /the least/ I should've gotten when I bought this. Still a lot of fun, but I think that the problem is that there is a strong feeling-and I've yet to see this refuted by anything but words-that 1) the original is being abandoned and 2) the community there is going to be split.

No new maps/expansions/whatever were even hinted at for L4D, just "Yeah, we aren't going to bail on you, promise" but in the meantime a whole new game was made?

Don't get me wrong; they make games, I don't object to it, but from any reasonable standpoint Valve doesn't seem to be providing the people who went out and supported L4D with much hope that the game they like will be fully realized.

Of course, there's the question of what's fair? What should a game like this come with? 6 maps? 10? I don't know. I think if there had been 6, I'd feel like I gotten my money's worth. There might still BE those maps coming, but there's no evidence of such. Why should I believe them?

There's also the fact that buying this on console is more expensive. So I've gotten much less game than a PC user from the start.

It's my choice to buy the game, yes, but there was a lot of suggestion that L4D would be supported and expanded for awhile, so I thought; hey, it's OK to give these people my money, they're going to improve on this product!

That seems to be going away, and until I see screenshots or dates or something that definitively says: yup, we haven't abandoned this, then I'm siding with the complaints.

Now, the new game does seem like a fully realized effort. More than just DLC-although I'll confess my knowledge of what could or couldn't be DLC is limited. And I don't object to a new, cool game!

But the new cool game is going to leave the old one in the lurch. People are going to play L4D2, and not L4D, and so all these people (and they've been surprisingly well mannered, which I attribute to the style of game it is) aren't going to be around to play. Or they're going to have to 'put up' with going back to the old game to play with me-and I'm not special enough for people to go backwards for.

So I don't know how this can't be anything but a split in the community (especially with the economy being the way it is) into the haves and have nots. This is really unfortunate, to me, and I don't believe it's been handled well.

Will I get L4D2? Well, it's likely that eventually yes; depending on reviews.
Will I get it new?
No. I don't have the cash for it. Even if I'm only saving $5, that's five I didn't spend-and $50 that Valve isn't getting at all.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that this is what we've come to. So now, instead of complaining that sequels take too long to make, we're complaining that they're coming out too soon. Now what? Is there never supposed to be a sequel again unless it uses a new graphics engine? Every game should just have a billion updates? The next complaint will be that you have to pay for the updates. Good god. Leave Valve alone. They're one of the good guys. The fact that they release FREE updates for most, if not all, of their games sets them head and shoulders above most other companies.

Oh, and if you don't want L4D2, fine. We'll have just as much fun without you. Probably more, since we won't have to hear you bitch the whole time about how it's not a "complete game."

I'm not a member of the Steam group, but I do partially agree.

I think people felt that in a few years they would still be playing Left 4 Dead (one) but with dozens of campaigns and additions that would keep them guessing every time they connected to a random server. Lots of people expected more expansion.

And you can't expect ValVe to quadruple the content for free, thats ridiculous. I'd pay 30 or 40 bucks for a yearly expansion pack that had a new cast, campaigns and monsters, without batting an eyelash.

But for some reason expansion packs are a dying breed, that can't stand the harsh console climates. Instead we have 'DLC' or 'micro-transactions' or something and it seems L4D2 is too big for that.

I play L4D on Steam so I hope they make some way to combine both games if you have the original. Really, they should include an updated version of the original campaigns with L4D2, that would be awesome,...but it might actually make the boycotters more angry.

While I am not 100% happy with the hasty release of L4D2 instead of updating the original.... I think many of you are underestimating exactly how much content they are adding.

Its not just a few new zombie types, or a few new weapons, or even a few new maps. They are changing the very way you will play the game. Melee weapons alone will add a brand new element to gameplay. Not only that but I hear they are making the zombies more realistic, as in if you shoot their legs off they will crawl at you. They are also changing the director so that he can change the level more dynamically then ever before. It won't just randomly spawn hordes at you anymore.

Xan Krieger:
I just wish Valve would direct it's attention to the series that brought it so much fame in the first place. Give me either Half-life 2 episode 3 or Half-Life 3 before Left 4 Dead 2.

Well i was kinda hoping they would pull another orange box deal. Including Episode 3 with a l4d2 purchase. Maybe I'm dreaming but either way I'll be buying l4d2. I mean from the original i have had and am still having many hours of fun for the price of a normal game. I'm sure l4d2 will bring more of the same and more.

I really don't understand game journalists who feel that, instead of serving as a voice for consumer concerns, feel they need to function as unpaid damage control for game developers. Valve and EA can hire their own marketing teams and lawyers. How about you advocate on the behalf of gamers?

Norman Rafferty:
Your article is self-contradictory. You offer more reasons why the boycott is a bad thing than a good thing. You point out that the boycotters are full of hyperbole and that hurts their case. And in your closer, you point out you didn't even buy the first Left 4 Dead so you're not even in the customer base that's supposedly offended.

This is the first op-ed I've seen that criticized a game company for re-using the same engine over and over, which is a fair criticism. Back in the 1990s, companies such as Sierra and SSI would use the same code to make "new" games, which they cranked out on a regular basis. Strangely, though, back then people actually enjoyed having new games to play ... and if they didn't want to play them, they simply didn't buy them.

I'm not sure where you get the idea it's "self-contradictory," nor where I said it was a bad thing. I said it wasn't going to have any impact on the development of L4D2, that most of the support for the boycott will drift away long before the game is released and that I personally think it's kind of a silly idea. But a bad thing? Communities are being formed around people who are willing to demand more and better things from gaming. That's a good thing.

I'm even more confused about your statement regarding the re-use of game engines. The first part I can see as an honest misunderstanding (I'll cop to a little game-playing there) but this is pretty much completely random.

To be fair, the boycotters have a valid point. It's got more to justify a expansion pack, but too little to back up a 60 dollar purchase. Sure it's near impossible to dish out all the updates in say a expansion pack, but what about this...

Drop the new animations, physics, difficult-to-make-weapons, dismemberment and such and give us more maps, characters, rifles, and add simplistic melee weapons somwhere along the lines. Then, select a campaign or some of the new weapons, a new character and release it as DLC for e.g. 1200 MS points/15$.

I wouldn't mind paying 15 bucks, not even 20$ for a single pack with a little of all.

Ah who am I kiddin', I'm buying the game anyway when it comes out. I figured it's worth mentioning that it's not impossible, but that's all on Valve's part. I guess when your project passed the expansion pack size, the logic solution would be to add even more and cash in on that.

I'm still slightly afraid that it'll tear the community right in half, though.

I was about to buy L4D, until I saw L4D2 announcement. Even I knew that fans of L4D would get pissed.

I'd be pissed too if I just spent full price on a multiplayer only game only to find out a month later that the game I just bought is basically obsolete and everyone's going to move on to its sequel.

Yeah, I'd be pretty pissed about that too.

They whole "but it's totally new" argument would've worked for a game that's more focused on single player because multiplayer only games lives and dies by its community. If the community moves on to the sequel, the original game is pretty much dead. This would be like Sony announcing Soccom 2 right after people just bought the first Soccom.

Kstreitenfeld:
While I am not 100% happy with the hasty release of L4D2 instead of updating the original.... I think many of you are underestimating exactly how much content they are adding.

Its not just a few new zombie types, or a few new weapons, or even a few new maps. They are changing the very way you will play the game. Melee weapons alone will add a brand new element to gameplay. Not only that but I hear they are making the zombies more realistic, as in if you shoot their legs off they will crawl at you. They are also changing the director so that he can change the level more dynamically then ever before. It won't just randomly spawn hordes at you anymore.

Nobody quite understands that you can't just wedge these changes in easily, it takes time and effort and really, all they had in terms of dismemberment in Source was the zombies from HL2, and they could only be cut in half, instead of what they're planning to do.

Hell I still think lack of dev-savvy knowledge is the core of this problem. One of my friends thinks they're just reskinning things because, oh gods, the auto shotgun in L4D2 looks different than the auto shotgun in L4D1.

Well they aren't. And everyone claiming this should be easy like TF2 clearly doesn't get that you can't make radical AI changes with the snap of a finger, and that it's far different to just include new weapons and levels over new weapons and levels in addition to enemy creatures, damage modeling, and AI revamp. But whatever. I do accept that some people are going to just be butthurt over this, acting like they never gave money to Valve before for a game experience building off a pre-established game with graphical updates thrown in.

Oh wait.

image (and for the record, yes I did buy Blue Shift, and yes I did love it.)

I think the ultimate irony here is that I don't even know if I'm going to get the game. I might not have the money after all. But I do plan to get it at some point, even if a good portion of my friends have expressed feelings ranging from doubt to outright vitriol.

Malygris:
But when I asked one of the administrators of the boycott group about Faliszek's explanation, he rejected it outright. "Considering Mr. Newell has admitted on other news sources that L4D2 was primarily motivated by the limited DLC system on the Xbox 360, we feel that Chet's response was not valid,"

Wait, so they're now protesting that Valve is doing this to avoid leaving their 360 customers stuck with a TF2 situation?

I mean, that's fine, but then let's call this what it really is: PC gamers protesting Valve focusing on its console customers.

Isn't that cool? I'm not a big fan of social networks myself because I think the internet for the most part is full of idiots, but I do very much like the idea of turning them to a worthwhile purpose. We're not curing cancer here, no, but the potential is obvious: Gamers are no longer tilting at windmills on a great open plain of isolated indifference and just as important, game developers have access to immediate, large-scale feedback on what they're up to. It's still a relatively new phenomenon and its value at this stage is sometimes debatable, but one thing is certain: At this very moment, Valve is well aware that 30 thousand Steam users are unhappy about its plans for Left 4 Dead 2.

I'm reminded of the old saw about how I may not agree with what you say but I'll shoot 100 guys in the face to defend your right to say it. Something like that, anyway; the point is that while I happen to think the Left 4 Dead 2 boycott is something of a fool's errand, I also think it's great that they're having such success doing it. Will it change Valve's plan for the game? Not a chance. But it got the company's attention, and that in itself is unquestionably a victory.

Just remember that next time the forum denizens of The Escapist express their displeasure with what has become the 'house line' on piracy ;-D

yutt:
Andy Chalk, thanks for serving as a PR mouthpiece for Valve, rather than representing interests of consumers and gamers.

I vehemently disagree with the content authors here on The Escapist. Including this one. Often.

However, as much as I may disagree with their positions, they are NOT anyone's mouthpiece. Their voice is rabidly independent. Rabidly simplistic and ridiculous in my opinion at times, but most certainly independent.

I was happy with Valve, they made a fairly original and fairly successful game. I loved it, still play it for hours.

Im just really unhappy to see that Valve have fallen into the cliché and added melee weapons. The game doesnt need them, anyone who is using a melee weapon is trying to be a hero. As far as i can tell thats not what the game is about. A Chainsaw is a very impractical weapon. All Valve have done is the same thing every other zombie game has.

Simple Equation
Chainsaw + Auto-Shotgun + Expert = a fuck load of incaps

EDIT - The incendiary is one of the most ridiculous i have ever seen. ammo that makes enemies instantly burst into flames.... Why?

I didn't hear about this boycott. They do have a right to be mad I know I am. It's not right for game developers to keep charging 60$ for games.

Two things:

1. Going to buy L4D2

2. Praise the Boycott group for organizing a well thought-out plan and sticking to it.

L4D2 Boycott

(noun)

1. Collection of [expletive removed] players who did not see Valve's statement that they will still be providing for the original L4D.

2. A pointless and [expletive removed] endeavor by those in definition 1.

It absolutely fascinates me that people think, "There's hardly any new content here! This could easily be DLC! Fuck you Valve! We want it all free because we're all cheapskates!" Are these boycotters REALLY that greedy? I mean, don't they realize that the entire game is filled to capacity with new content. Besides the new characters, new AI director, new weapons, new game mode, and new infected (common and special), the 5 new campaigns are filled with all new architectures and a plethora of new texture work, all of which weren't in the original. I mean, call me crazy, but I'm pretty damn sure Left 4 Dead didn't have any maps that had the look and design of New Orleans or any of the other locales in the south that are being put into L4D2. And, speaking of new characters, there's hundreds if not thousands of hours of new voice recordings for the new characters. Not exactly something they'd throw in for free.

Has it occurred to anyone that we have no idea what the new game mode is? Somehow I doubt it's just another "survival-esque" mode that just uses some simple aspect of the larger game with a timer attached.

I'd also like to point out that Valve hasn't actually said they'll completely stop all support for the original Left 4 Dead. Hell, they still support Half-Life 1, Counter-Strike 1.6 and Team Fortress Classic. Why would Left 4 Dead be any different? I give this "boycott" thing 2 months, 3 tops, before it's numbers dwindle to a mere hand-full. Sooner if Valve decides to reveal more of what's in store for buyers of L4D2.

The boycott wont work but good job getting the attention of the company. Plus I believe that most of the people will buy it anyways except for the hardcore guys.

Abedeus:

Digikid:

Striker1246:
Oh my god no- Half Life SUCKS in comparison to Left 4 dead.

Quite agreed.

This whole boycott thing is just like a Temper Tantrum. It is very childish and never ever works...so why even try? It just makes you look even more foolish and childish. Just shut up and buy the game if you like it and if you do not like it then go and get into another game....then boycott that as well. LOL!!!!

People these days...sheesh.

You don't understand online games, don't talk.

Umm...err....let me think about that as you sit on a pit of lava. I understand that this is a waste of time and resources. Agreed Fanboys will pay 110% and that is their right to be idiots and do so. However it still remains that the boycott in itself is just something to point and laugh it....while having a bag of popcorn with caramel sauce.

Digikid:

Abedeus:

Digikid:

Striker1246:
Oh my god no- Half Life SUCKS in comparison to Left 4 dead.

Quite agreed.

This whole boycott thing is just like a Temper Tantrum. It is very childish and never ever works...so why even try? It just makes you look even more foolish and childish. Just shut up and buy the game if you like it and if you do not like it then go and get into another game....then boycott that as well. LOL!!!!

People these days...sheesh.

You don't understand online games, don't talk.

Umm...err....let me think about that as you sit on a pit of lava. I understand that this is a waste of time and resources. Agreed Fanboys will pay 110% and that is their right to be idiots and do so. However it still remains that the boycott in itself is just something to point and laugh it....while having a bag of popcorn with caramel sauce.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

It's better to be a fanboy and blindly listen to what developers promise, and then go into a complete denial when something goes wrong.

AncientYoungSon:
So when are the Madden, FIFA, NFL, NHL, Tiger Woods and Pokemon boycotts happening?

The main Pokemon games are NOT out yearly, so that's not the same.

I even looked it up.

AncientYoungSon:
So when are the Madden, FIFA, NFL, NHL, Tiger Woods and Pokemon boycotts happening?

Nobody's boycotting those because nobody cares.

Protip: nobody cares because they suck.

Malygris:
[quote="Norman Rafferty" post="6.119400.2325315"]I'm not sure where you get the idea it's "self-contradictory," nor where I said it was a bad thing. I said it wasn't going to have any impact on the development of L4D2, that most of the support for the boycott will drift away long before the game is released and that I personally think it's kind of a silly idea. But a bad thing? Communities are being formed around people who are willing to demand more and better things from gaming. That's a good thing.

Yes, that is a good thing. So maybe you don't realize it, but in your article you trashed the whole boycott and its participants over and over again in a way that's a lot more insulting than the kind of ignorant tripe spouted by journalists outside of the industry that has no basis in reality. I read it thinking the whole time "jesus... this guy is practically flaming them." When you say "yeah, you're doing the right thing, but you're retarded if you think you'll actually make a difference," you might as well just say "stop gaming, you're an idiot and nobody likes you."

I don't get you people. You love L4D and your upset because valve are releasing L4D2... maybe you should stop crying and realise that L4D2 will be good. If you think L4D was unfinished/wasnt out long enough than thats fair enough, but for people to moan and criticize Valve for releasing a sequel is stupid. Just be glad that Valve are releasing another left for dead game.

Looking at this boycott now, I think this is going to be the start of a (hopefully) good trend. We see that there's a boycott for L4D2 from VALVe, a respected company, but how often do we ever see a boycott in this industry?

Think about it, if these guys can get over 30,000 people to join up who knows what kind of numbers they'd achieve in a boycott against EA's DRM or Activision's constant rereleasing of Guitar Hero? I think it'd be much more effective than pirating games you hate or quietly not buying "GH12462:99's eddition", that kind of boycott, out of spite, is not effective at all and only makes the company more reluctant to remove it and controls them out of fear.

companies need to trust us, not fear us, so if this boycott gets even a fraction of what it's requesting achieved I think that it could be the start of a small thing that can lead to a big thing.

That was really ignorant of them to do that. But Valve is greedy. Rather than satisfying loyal fans they want the money grab in a recession? Whoever is over there needs to get fired immediately because not only am I definitely not buying Left 4 Dead but I don't plan on buying any of Valve's marketing schemes from now on. I was just in the store today looking at Left 4 Dead thinking about buying it. Thank God I didn't pick it up.

Dreyfuss:
Yes, that is a good thing. So maybe you don't realize it, but in your article you trashed the whole boycott and its participants over and over again in a way that's a lot more insulting than the kind of ignorant tripe spouted by journalists outside of the industry that has no basis in reality. I read it thinking the whole time "jesus... this guy is practically flaming them." When you say "yeah, you're doing the right thing, but you're retarded if you think you'll actually make a difference," you might as well just say "stop gaming, you're an idiot and nobody likes you."

Still have to disagree. I can (and often do) vehemently criticize the Canadian government, Canadian political system and democracy in general for their many flaws and glaring failures, complaints that are all undeniably valid. That doesn't mean that I don't recognize that it's a great system and that we're very lucky to live under it.

Same with this boycott. Just because this particular boycott of this particular game doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to me doesn't mean that I don't recognize it as an important step in the evolution of the relationship between developers and gamers, or that I don't applaud its founders and members for standing up and demanding (and getting) Valve's attention.

Everyone keeps spouting off the wrong perception of the boycott. First of all, they're not just whiny people who want something for nothing solely because of TF2. Updates were PROMISED for L4D, boycotters just want to know that we will still get them. Is holding developers to their promises a whiny thing to do? Thats your opinion I guess, but valve actually SAID left4dead would get continous updates and cited TF2 as an example of what L4D would enjoy. The link is below (the first hyperlink).

I'm too lazy to explain it all, but apparently you guys are too busy to do ALL the research yourself so I'll do it for you...

Manifesto:

WE RECOGNIZE:

-Valve is a company with financial needs and cannot be expected to survive without the release of new games.

-Judgment cannot be passed on the quality of Left 4 Dead 2 until its release.

-Left 4 Dead was, and is, a quality game which deserves the praise of the entire gaming community.

WE ARE COMMITTED:

-To holding Valve to its promise of free, continual updates to Left 4 Dead in order to build and sustain the community.

-To keeping the Left 4 Dead community together in order to improve the quality of online gaming.

-To supporting the model of continual updates Valve has set forth with its staple products like Team Fortress 2.

WE BELIEVE:

-The release of Left 4 Dead 2 as a stand-alone sequel will split the communities and decrease the quality of multiplayer gaming.

-The announced content of Left 4 Dead 2 does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise) for Left 4 Dead.

-Left 4 Dead has not yet received the support and content which Valve has repeatedly stated will be delivered.

-The release of Left 4 Dead 2 will make Left 4 Dead an obsolete purchase and inferior piece of software after only one year since release.

WE REQUEST:

-That Valve honor its commitment to release ongoing periodic content for Left 4 Dead.

-That Left 4 Dead 2 not be released as a stand-alone, full-priced sequel but as either a free update to Left 4 Dead or an expansion with full compatibility with basic Left 4 Dead owners.

-That Left 4 Dead owners be given discounts for Left 4 Dead 2, should it be released as premium content.

Therefore, we - the members of this Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott - promise to abstain from the purchase of Left 4 Dead 2 until our requests are addressed.

Important links (should probably read the first two!!!):

Valve's Past Promises
Past Valve interviews about L4D1 post-release plans
L4D2 Boycott Forum + Chat Room

This was all on the FIRST FREAKING PAGE of the group, which I guess all of you couldnt be bothered to look up. I know you guys are a bunch of self righteous assholes who hate on everything based on what only one or two people have said on it, without ever spending the slightest shred of time researching or determining the truth, but seriously this seems pretty reasonable to me. The developers promised something and didn't deliver, we as customers have only one recourse when dissatisfied with a company and that is to stop buying their product. If I came on this forum and complained someone would tell me, 'just dont buy it then, vote with your dollar' and thats all this group is doing. I think everyone here needs to grow up at least a little, myself included.

Also theres 32,500ish members now...

[quote="AceDiamond" post="6.119400.2334090
[IMG]http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg72/Rodriiigo0/BlueShift.jpg[/IMG] (and for the record, yes I did buy Blue Shift, and yes I did love it.)

[/quote]

Yes, and how much did it cost? That's right, the same as an expansion pack.

L4D2 looks and feels like an expansion pack. It's all tweeks and no new major updates. I don't mind paying for it. Just sucks to be paying for full price when you know it's just L4D 1.5.

For the record I also paid for blue shift and enjoyed it- for a day because it was really short- but got freaked out by the clone Barneys that looked more lifelike and therefore strangely disconcerting when there's 3 of them in the same room as you. Like when you get an entire team of Gordon Frohman's assembled in HL2.

Taerdin:
Everyone keeps spouting off the wrong perception of the boycott. First of all, they're not just whiny people who want something for nothing solely because of TF2. Updates were PROMISED for L4D, boycotters just want to know that we will still get them. Is holding developers to their promises a whiny thing to do? Thats your opinion I guess.

Okay. Valve has already said you'll still get them. Said that within 24 hours of the L4D2 announcement. Before the boycott group was even a group. So.. end of boycott, hm?

I'm too lazy to explain it all, but apparently you guys are too busy to do ALL the research yourself so I'll do it for you...

What a surprise, since you were apparantly too lazy to do the research before joining the boycott group.

Manifesto:

WE RECOGNIZE:

-Valve is a company with financial needs and cannot be expected to survive without the release of new games.

-Judgment cannot be passed on the quality of Left 4 Dead 2 until its release.

Ah.. that's why there are complaints about the music and the character models. I see. You might want to inform the idiots in your boycotting group which are saying otherwise then, they're giving you a badworse name.

-Left 4 Dead was, and is, a quality game which deserves the praise of the entire gaming community.

And here we see it.. "But we're not gonna be the special-ist!!" Wait.. what's that I hear, could it be the Wahhmbulance?

WE ARE COMMITTED:

-To holding Valve to its promise of free, continual updates to Left 4 Dead in order to build and sustain the community.

-To keeping the Left 4 Dead community together in order to improve the quality of online gaming.

-To supporting the model of continual updates Valve has set forth with its staple products like Team Fortress 2.

Good for you.. and L4D2 affects any of these things... how?

Oh.. wait.. here we go:

WE BELIEVE:

Aka, we have no evidence but it'd be kind of stupid for us to just be getting all up in arms because we're not the most special any more.

-The release of Left 4 Dead 2 as a stand-alone sequel will split the communities and decrease the quality of multiplayer gaming.

Good grief.. so are you going to boycott every single online game that follows L4D? Because, newsflash, they're all gonna do that.

-The announced content of Left 4 Dead 2 does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise) for Left 4 Dead.

Hey, and they should give you ponies and unicorns too. Go to school. Learn some coding. As a tip, when the expansion pack contains more content than the original, it ain't an expansion. Remember, you've already stated that you recognize Valve developers need to eat.

-Left 4 Dead has not yet received the support and content which Valve has repeatedly stated will be delivered.

Aaaand... this means it won't happen because? Perhaps you'll note the word "yet" in your own sentence.

-The release of Left 4 Dead 2 will make Left 4 Dead an obsolete purchase and inferior piece of software after only one year since release.

Welcome to the world of videogames. Remember, Valve developers need to eat. Oddly, they need to do this every year.

WE REQUEST:

-That Valve honor its commitment to release ongoing periodic content for Left 4 Dead.

And we're going to make sure they don't get fed until they give us our free goodies!

-That Left 4 Dead 2 not be released as a stand-alone, full-priced sequel but as either a free update to Left 4 Dead or an expansion with full compatibility with basic Left 4 Dead owners.

Because we want our free goodies for what we already bought!

-That Left 4 Dead owners be given discounts for Left 4 Dead 2, should it be released as premium content.

Because we don't want to pay full price for something with more content than the original game we paid full price for!

Therefore, we - the members of this Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott - promise to abstain from the purchase of Left 4 Dead 2 until our requests are addressed.

AKA.. "We'd rather you starve than not give us our free goodies!" Because that'll get you the free goodies oh so much faster. "That thing about recognizing that they deserve to get paid? Yeah, that was really just to hide that we're selfish pricks."

I think everyone here needs to grow up at least a little, myself included.

Well.. at least you got one half right.

Seriously, the only argument that doesn't boil down to "I'm a selfish prick and want cheap/free goodies" is the one about splitting the online community, and as mentioned, you better damn well be boycotting EVERYTHING that comes out for online play hereafter, because they're all going to do that. Unless you can seriously argue that the deciding factor that made you buy L4D.. ie, that you wouldn't have purchased it at all otherwise, is that they announced they'd be developing extra stuff for the game.. and even then it's just a whine that it isn't out already, and will remain so until either it's out, or they say they're ditching it.

Kwil:

Taerdin:
Everyone keeps spouting off the wrong perception of the boycott. First of all, they're not just whiny people who want something for nothing solely because of TF2. Updates were PROMISED for L4D, boycotters just want to know that we will still get them. Is holding developers to their promises a whiny thing to do? Thats your opinion I guess.

Okay. Valve has already said you'll still get them. Said that within 24 hours of the L4D2 announcement. Before the boycott group was even a group. So.. end of boycott, hm?

I'm too lazy to explain it all, but apparently you guys are too busy to do ALL the research yourself so I'll do it for you...

What a surprise, since you were apparantly too lazy to do the research before joining the boycott group.

Manifesto:

WE RECOGNIZE:

-Valve is a company with financial needs and cannot be expected to survive without the release of new games.

-Judgment cannot be passed on the quality of Left 4 Dead 2 until its release.

Ah.. that's why there are complaints about the music and the character models. I see. You might want to inform the idiots in your boycotting group which are saying otherwise then, they're giving you a badworse name.

-Left 4 Dead was, and is, a quality game which deserves the praise of the entire gaming community.

And here we see it.. "But we're not gonna be the special-ist!!" Wait.. what's that I hear, could it be the Wahhmbulance?

WE ARE COMMITTED:

-To holding Valve to its promise of free, continual updates to Left 4 Dead in order to build and sustain the community.

-To keeping the Left 4 Dead community together in order to improve the quality of online gaming.

-To supporting the model of continual updates Valve has set forth with its staple products like Team Fortress 2.

Good for you.. and L4D2 affects any of these things... how?

Oh.. wait.. here we go:

WE BELIEVE:

Aka, we have no evidence but it'd be kind of stupid for us to just be getting all up in arms because we're not the most special any more.

-The release of Left 4 Dead 2 as a stand-alone sequel will split the communities and decrease the quality of multiplayer gaming.

Good grief.. so are you going to boycott every single online game that follows L4D? Because, newsflash, they're all gonna do that.

-The announced content of Left 4 Dead 2 does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise) for Left 4 Dead.

Hey, and they should give you ponies and unicorns too. Go to school. Learn some coding. As a tip, when the expansion pack contains more content than the original, it ain't an expansion. Remember, you've already stated that you recognize Valve developers need to eat.

-Left 4 Dead has not yet received the support and content which Valve has repeatedly stated will be delivered.

Aaaand... this means it won't happen because? Perhaps you'll note the word "yet" in your own sentence.

-The release of Left 4 Dead 2 will make Left 4 Dead an obsolete purchase and inferior piece of software after only one year since release.

Welcome to the world of videogames. Remember, Valve developers need to eat. Oddly, they need to do this every year.

WE REQUEST:

-That Valve honor its commitment to release ongoing periodic content for Left 4 Dead.

And we're going to make sure they don't get fed until they give us our free goodies!

-That Left 4 Dead 2 not be released as a stand-alone, full-priced sequel but as either a free update to Left 4 Dead or an expansion with full compatibility with basic Left 4 Dead owners.

Because we want our free goodies for what we already bought!

-That Left 4 Dead owners be given discounts for Left 4 Dead 2, should it be released as premium content.

Because we don't want to pay full price for something with more content than the original game we paid full price for!

Therefore, we - the members of this Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott - promise to abstain from the purchase of Left 4 Dead 2 until our requests are addressed.

AKA.. "We'd rather you starve than not give us our free goodies!" Because that'll get you the free goodies oh so much faster. "That thing about recognizing that they deserve to get paid? Yeah, that was really just to hide that we're selfish pricks."

I think everyone here needs to grow up at least a little, myself included.

Well.. at least you got one half right.

Seriously, the only argument that doesn't boil down to "I'm a selfish prick and want cheap/free goodies" is the one about splitting the online community, and as mentioned, you better damn well be boycotting EVERYTHING that comes out for online play hereafter, because they're all going to do that. Unless you can seriously argue that the deciding factor that made you buy L4D.. ie, that you wouldn't have purchased it at all otherwise, is that they announced they'd be developing extra stuff for the game.. and even then it's just a whine that it isn't out already, and will remain so until either it's out, or they say they're ditching it.

You may want to post this on their forums, I myself am not the one who wrote all that, they did. I was just passing it along for people to lazy to dredge it up themselves

Also if you can't recognize that you're being horribly immature with your 'whaaambulance' comments and such, then theres really no help for you. Good luck. I could sit here and respond to each of your little quotes in some flame war crap but then I would just be getting even more trolled then I already have.

Feel free to post your comments to someone who remotely cares too though, like... the actual boycotters. As someone who isn't quick to judge I was just trying to fix what I see to be a misconception of the boycotters, but apparently you're too keen to be a troll and a gamer elitist to realize all the group is about is holding valve to their promises, and if they dont deliver then voting with their dollar. They have that right as consumers to not give money to companies they feel have slighted them, so how about you grow the hell up and understand that. I for one will likely buy L4D2 on release, but I understand anyones decision to vote with their dollar.

Q.Q more.

I can't help but feel we wouldn't have these problems if they didn't go with a 360 release. I've been hearing rumors that valve kept wanting to release free DLC and Microsoft kept telling them they have to charge for it.

Furthermore, on the PC an expansion pack is easy. Just dump the new stuff into the current install folder and away you go. On a console, it's not really possible. This is why I think what not only could have, but should have been an expansion pack is now it's own game.

Sounds like 30000 people are whining for a free game and the guy that's rallying the troops is a tool. I've never played Left 4 Dead, but from what I read here this "expansion" is no small thing, rejecting that argument based on "they added a weapon to TF2 as well!" is just stupid. It shows that they either have no clue or, more likely, are willfully ignorant.

Yeah, it's great large groups of people can get the attention of game developers, I'm sure that it will lead to better games eventually, or better sales anyway. But this is 30000 people complaining to valve about them making an apparently awesome game that's going to cost less, offer more gameplay and be generally better than any game of most other developers.

Can't we use these new-found collective superpowers for good or something?

*Dramatic Sigh.* To all of you naysayers who are completely against Left 4 Dead 2, I've just two words for you:

*FRYING PAN.*

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