A View From the Road: Unreasonably Dedicated

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Good points made in the article. But what I don't understand is how come everytime people mention pirating games, they only talk about PC games? As i've mentioned before, I have a PS3, xbox 360 and a gaming PC. Most of my friends have 360's, im the only one that doesn't have it modded. NONE of my friends have ever bought a legit copy of an xbox game. On the other hand, i've never pirated a PC game. Why? Cause theyre cheap. So can we stop pretending that console games somehow go unpirated?

I'm glad this whole dedicated server thing happened. Otherwise, most of you would be buying MW2 right now. Regardless of whether or not it has dedicated servers, it's still a very poor quality game.

To further prove my point, go check mininova for moder warfare 2, the 360 version has the most downloads even if you add all the PC torrents toghether. So, the big problem is pirating in PC games is it?

I'm sorry but I have to say this article has a bit of bollox and contradictory stuff in it.

Basically you said it is ok to be annoyed about features taken out that are key to PC gaming yet we are not meant to complain about it so we can have what we have said since day 1.

Fair enough if this was a new series and they did this but it isn't you can't do that so I will not get it.

SomeGuyNamedKy:
I decided a while ago that I would not buy this game for the PC or the Xbox until IW proves to me that IW.net is a significant improvement over dedicated servers. It's not like I hate IW now, I just want to make sure that bringing this system is a step in the right direction.

I totally dig your thinking. I vote we give it a shot and determine it's definitely subpar before writing it off.

theaceplaya:

SomeGuyNamedKy:
I decided a while ago that I would not buy this game for the PC or the Xbox until IW proves to me that IW.net is a significant improvement over dedicated servers. It's not like I hate IW now, I just want to make sure that bringing this system is a step in the right direction.

I totally dig your thinking. I vote we give it a shot and determine it's definitely subpar before writing it off.

physics and logic dictate that IT CAN'T BE BETTER, is simply a matter of HARDWARE, no SOFTware can overcome that.

MR T3D:

theaceplaya:

SomeGuyNamedKy:
I decided a while ago that I would not buy this game for the PC or the Xbox until IW proves to me that IW.net is a significant improvement over dedicated servers. It's not like I hate IW now, I just want to make sure that bringing this system is a step in the right direction.

I totally dig your thinking. I vote we give it a shot and determine it's definitely subpar before writing it off.

physics and logic dictate that IT CAN'T BE BETTER, is simply a matter of HARDWARE, no SOFTware can overcome that.

exactly, i remember the joys of playing halo multiplayer.

get into the proper lobby and wait.
if you are lucky and don't have to restart your search you can be playing a map or mode you don't like within 10 minutes with random people
vs
log on
select server
join

sneakypenguin:
I have mid range dsl and I host matches on halo cod4 16 players perfectly fine. So surely the other millions with 30x faster cable modems would be fine.

You obviously don't live in Australia where our net connections are about as bad as they get due to stupid telco monopolies, trust me our 'high range' DSL connections are horrid. =<256kbit upstream. You might be able to spring for a 'business' style connection and get a 512kbit upstream if you can afford the $150/month fee.

ADSL2 is available in very few area's here but even those connections cap out at 1Mbit upstream generally.

Frank_Sinatra_:
[Snipped for space]
The PC has it's high points and it's low points, some games work better on a PC and some don't it's just a fact that PC gamers are going to have to get use to.

CantFaketheFunk:
[Snipped for space]

Great way to end the article right there.

I echo your sentiments, Frank but I'd like to make one small addendum to John's closing paragraph and thats this: A refusal to purchase does speak volumes, but a refusal to purchase with an explanation to the developer as to why you're not buying their game all but screams it. I'm a PC gamer, but I also like playing on consoles as well. I don't own a console (yet) but that will probably change soon.

The gaming machine I spent my hypothetical grandchildren's inheritance on will do nicely for now...

Ah, the obligatory "Piracy is guiding our decisions." statement, because apparently high-horsed and financially bloated gaming companies believe that every single download is a 'lost sale'. This is the belief of the MPAA/RIAA, when in fact, most of the awful pirates wouldn't have ever bought the game in the first place due to the fact that they're broke or don't want to burn 60 bills for a crappy over-hyped game. Considering every "review" is thoroughly padded with endorsements in return for good marks, it would be considerably difficult to get an honest opinion of the game. So, *gasp*.. people download them.

Any business selling digital media Should be "blown away" by high-pirate-numbers for their products, only in a positive "blown away". You see, games are not physical media anymore, at least they don't have to be, so money is not lost when it is downloaded. Instead, it is passed around just as it was in the infantile days of old, when you handed off your floppy or 8-bit cartridge to your friends, instantly creating free and effortless marketing exposure.

I just can't justify paying sixty dollars for a <5 hour experience, however "intense" it may be. I'd prefer to just watch a TV network action-movie marathon..

If gaming companies endorsed integrity and quality in their products more often and stopped bitching about money.. then maybe they will get the respect they deserve. People tire of hearing the fat cats whine, when in fact they are almost wiping their ass with cash reserves.

Good article. Now I can't decide if I'm with the Dedicated Servers on the PC crowd or not.

CorpBlitz:

sneakypenguin:
I have mid range dsl and I host matches on halo cod4 16 players perfectly fine. So surely the other millions with 30x faster cable modems would be fine.

You obviously don't live in Australia where our net connections are about as bad as they get due to stupid telco monopolies, trust me our 'high range' DSL connections are horrid. =<256kbit upstream. You might be able to spring for a 'business' style connection and get a 512kbit upstream if you can afford the $150/month fee.

ADSL2 is available in very few area's here but even those connections cap out at 1Mbit upstream generally.

O wow thats pretty quick, mine tops out at 150kbs dl and maybe 40 upload.

Oh no how dare we, the consumer, want a feature in our product!

Shame on us for choosing to play the game on system which the series has been on since its creation.

Or for choosing to play an FPS with *gasp* a keyboard and mouse!

Or for wanting a feature in previous installments to also be included with the, notably more expensive, sequel.

Silly us, wanting to enjoy a game.

In any large group of enpassioned people there will be representatives from all sides, from reasoned argument to irrational hatred and flaming. I honestly beleive the majority of the group who are boycotting MW2 are doing so for the right reasons. So please do not tar us with the same brush and by doing so further marginalise what I beleive to be a justified boycott

We wont buy this game, because they have effectively removed half of what it was through IWnet. We publically boycott it because of the way we have been treated. Now I dont mean the removal of servers and tools, its IW's game its up to them what they do with it. No, its the deceit and dismissal that have come from IW around this whole issue. Lets be honest IW stated that all the familar features were there from COD4 and then 402 in a podcast a month before release gets cornered into admitting that dedi servers are not coming. IW new people, clans and a large part of the hardcore market were gearing up for dedciated servers by preordering them arranging clans and ladders etc. and yet they choose not tell us. I really beleive that 402 didnt mean to blurt this out and from then they have been trying to convince PC gamers that they have found the holy grail of peer2peer when we know that every single game that has used it has miserably failed to deliver any semblance of game play online akin to dedicated servers. To compound this, what do IW do when they hear of the petition?, do they acknowledge our concerns but put their case forward. no they belittle and dismiss the petition and try to marganilise us.

All we wanted was honesty. You dont want to put in Dedis? fine but tell people and have a strategy to do so. We can then make a reasoned judgement whether to buy your game or not. Your strategy was clear, let them buy it and find out for themselves theres no dedis and by then its to late anyway. Its only because a poorly informed IW employee got cornered and blurted it out that we are where we are.

put simply, to me its half a game and therefore I dont want to buy it. More importantly however, I do not want to give my money to company that deceives and publically belittles its customer base.

Very nice article indeed.

We Pc-gamers should not complain, after all we get the game. But I find IW's hypocrisy very disturbing. I remember back in spring IW bragged about that they'd listen to all of its 10 million online players of ways to improve the multiplayer.

I wonder which one of those 10 million online players suggested to remove Dedicated servers & Mod tools and ad a 18 player limit.

sneakypenguin:

CorpBlitz:

sneakypenguin:
I have mid range dsl and I host matches on halo cod4 16 players perfectly fine. So surely the other millions with 30x faster cable modems would be fine.

You obviously don't live in Australia where our net connections are about as bad as they get due to stupid telco monopolies, trust me our 'high range' DSL connections are horrid. =<256kbit upstream. You might be able to spring for a 'business' style connection and get a 512kbit upstream if you can afford the $150/month fee.

ADSL2 is available in very few area's here but even those connections cap out at 1Mbit upstream generally.

O wow thats pretty quick, mine tops out at 150kbs dl and maybe 40 upload.

Thats bits, not bytes. 150kbyte download speeds works out to roughly 1500kbits downstream, and your 40kbyte upload is a 512kbit upstream (as I said that is a business level connection for most Australians). If you want it terms you can understand, most Australian's on a 512/128kbit or a much more expensive 1024/256kbit connection can only manage to upload about 15kbytes per second. (thats if no one else is using connection at all, if someone sharing your connection sends and email or uploads an image to facebook you can kiss what little upstream there is goodbye).

I don't feel entitled to anything, but I do get angry at developers when they remove features from games that have been standard since the late '90s. I mean, do these guys seriously have to come up with a whole new system? Hell no, just rip off Valve's server browser that's been in existence for A DECADE now.

And the other reason I get angry? We continually move backward in technology. Why? "Console development." In fact, I definitely feel a sense of superiority when it comes to gaming on the PC because it is the most adaptable and personal piece of hardware I own. A console can't even touch the flexibility of a PC. Nothing I own is as personal and unique as my PC and the tweaks, mods, and upgrades that I can perform to it and the software I use are invaluable. Having fun selecting from your predefined list of brand advertising wallpapers, console turds. Oh wait, you want new wallpaper? Yeah that'll be $10.

And this doesn't even begin to describe the lack of simulation (adult-oriented games, in my opinion) that you find on consoles. Good luck finding a game like ArmA, IL-2 Sturmovik, Flight Simulator X, or other such titles on a console.

There simply is nothing superior to a PC for gaming, period.

And for the record, I don't voice my opinion in shrill whines and forum comments, but with my wallet, and you can bet your hindquarters I will not be purchasing CoD:MW2 or any other POS console-oriented game. Also, if you believe that games will disappear on the PC if sales dip on one particular game you fundamentally misunderstand how capitalism works.

Also, just to comment on the piracy thing quickly, this is the right attitude to have for game developers:
http://www.industrygamers.com/news/ea-views-sims-3-leak-as-demo-program/

Gas prices have increased in the past years. Cereal boxes have remained the same price, but they've been made thinner to cut down on contained product. Pop bottles have decreased from 600ml to 591ml. Welcome to the real world: stuff gets expensive, and you get less. Don't like it? Too bad. Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity.

It's a good example of the mindlessness of the gaming community en mass: "zomg IW sucks I'm buying Bad Company 2!!!1!"

The same Bad Company that last time charged you for guns. Way to stick it to the man there, guys.

Yay! Another industry apologist telling us we should accept what our corporate masters deign to give us, shut up, and like it. Gee, isn't that swell?

The 'sense of entitlement' doesn't come from being a PC gamer, it comes from being a paying customer who is buying their product. The anti-consumer attitude coming from the game industry right now is shocking and disgusting. Few other business survive with such a hostile attitude towards their customers, and the game industry is no different.

WanderFreak:
Gas prices have increased in the past years. Cereal boxes have remained the same price, but they've been made thinner to cut down on contained product. Pop bottles have decreased from 600ml to 591ml. Welcome to the real world: stuff gets expensive, and you get less. Don't like it? Too bad. Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity.

Thats a really poor attitude. You keep doing that while people keep defending what they care about.

Most time is actually spent in multiplayer for most players and the fans want the great experience like all the games before that, it's not like it's fucking difficult for the developers!

ddq5:
This article basically addressed my feeling with logic and well-constructed arguments when I would have just called the PC gamers in question "dicks."

Zing!

Yeah, I felt that way too. I essentially got priced out of the PC gaming market (at least for the games I want to play) when girlfriend + rent became things. So I have the feeling of 'quit your bitching, you're not better than us because your system is fiddly and liable to crash'.

GOod article though.

Jandau:
Yaaaay! Broad generalizing statements piling an entire group of gamers into the same insulting label! Great work! [/sarcasm]

There are douchebags and idiots on all gaming platforms and PC is no exception. Singling out PC gamers and saying they should "get over themselves" and such is just plain hypocritical. Also, just stating "PC gamers" implies all of them. This in turn likely means that the person who is using the term in such a broad sense is likely the one who needs to "get over himself".

Oh hey! You may be right, but wasn't his argument supposed to be aimed at PC gamers? (Oh hey, like that? Its called a taste of your own medicine)

I completely disagree John. I think history has shown us the louder we protest the better we are heard. Would Valve have flown those douches to the studio if they weren't genuinely aware of all the moaning? Yeah don't get me wrong people are voting with their wallets, but why leave the developers scratching their heads wondering why the game doesn't sell well?

I've been watching the steam stats lately.

At its height MW2 has maybe 50k people playing at once and the game just came out. At the height of game time counters-strike source has 80k people on daily. CSS is 5 years old.

Discussed in the AOC thread WoW has a 1 million subscribers actively playing daily. Neither of these are console games. Stop acting like no plays PC anymore. Everyone plays PC! I've yet to see a household in recent memory that had a console and not a PC hanging around in the family office.

Anyway back on topic. I don't think Ive seen anything in the history of mankind resolved by quiet protest. That's just silly.

There is only one complaint that needs to go. Online activation. It's here to stay. It's stopping piracy and if we want to save PC gaming we need to accept it. Steam has a perfectly working offline mode.I've tested it 50 times while on my last business trip.

Mrsnugglesworth:

Jandau:
Yaaaay! Broad generalizing statements piling an entire group of gamers into the same insulting label! Great work! [/sarcasm]

There are douchebags and idiots on all gaming platforms and PC is no exception. Singling out PC gamers and saying they should "get over themselves" and such is just plain hypocritical. Also, just stating "PC gamers" implies all of them. This in turn likely means that the person who is using the term in such a broad sense is likely the one who needs to "get over himself".

Oh hey! You may be right, but wasn't his argument supposed to be aimed at PC gamers? (Oh hey, like that? Its called a taste of your own medicine)

Yes, his arguments were directed at PC gamers in general, that's the whole problem with the article. It implies that all PC gamers are whining elitists with a bloated sense of entitlement and should get over themselves. While there is such a population, labeling all PC gamers as such is about as fair as insiting that every 360 user is a homophobic screeching moron who spews profanity all day long while playing Halo. Again, there is such a population, but it's not fair to label all 360 users as such.

Also, you might want to look up the phrase "Taste of your own medicine". I don't think it means what you think it does, or you're just using it wrong. ;)

WanderFreak:
Gas prices have increased in the past years. Cereal boxes have remained the same price, but they've been made thinner to cut down on contained product. Pop bottles have decreased from 600ml to 591ml. Welcome to the real world: stuff gets expensive, and you get less. Don't like it? Too bad. Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity.

It's a good example of the mindlessness of the gaming community en mass: "zomg IW sucks I'm buying Bad Company 2!!!1!"

The same Bad Company that last time charged you for guns. Way to stick it to the man there, guys.

except they didn't, i bought only the standard edition and have ALL THE GUNS, AND they released FREE DLC maps.
AND they want to support their community, and actually acknowledge that mod tools won't likely be available from the getgo, but is something they WANT TO DO.

I disagree with the notion that developers 'owe' PC gamers (for being with IP's from the start, see CoD) that is BS

but I still feel that no dedicated servers will be detrimental to my online experience, i dont know, i havent finished the steam DL yet so i cant really comment

lets hope it doesnt

TitsMcGee1804:
I disagree with the notion that developers 'owe' PC gamers (for being with IP's from the start, see CoD) that is BS

but I still feel that no dedicated servers will be detrimental to my online experience, i dont know, i havent finished the steam DL yet so i cant really comment

lets hope it doesnt

now, the thing here is that i was hoping that as consoles gained hard drive, it'd allow mod support, and that developers would usually release dedi server files for console games, and that online console gaming would evolve into something similar to PC gaming, but alas, this game reverses my hoped direction, and that displeases me.
I have no delusion that the PC experience will be very similar to that of XBL, but if i want that, I'll PLAY IT ON THE GODDAMN XBOX, (the fact that i eventually will this December is beside the point, i'm not buying it, by little bro will, and i'm sure it will be damn fun splitscreen, but that's beside the point(literally!)).
Though, i personally don't find M&K or controllers, because I AM ME.

I dont agree with article that people should not be vocal about any disappointment with IW.
I think console gamers think that PC gamers are throwing some kind of collective fit because
they don't understand the place Dedicated severs have in PC gaming or Clan life.
So i'm going to try to explain it,he goes.

If you have never played on a PC, and your multiplayer experience has only been delivered to you via matchmaking, then you will never really understand. But try to imagine a host hosting a game while never turning his console off, and you can always reach that room and play there whenever you want, night or day, because its always on. Now imagine that host has a Pentagon grade internet connection and his X360 can handle 64 players in that room. On top of that, the guy whos the host is actually resurrected Ghandi, so you will all be treated with respect, anyone using racial slurs, being offensive or just detrimental to gameplay experience via TKing or exploiting glitches, is going to be removed from that server forever.

Now imagine dozens and dozens of custom maps running on that server, which you will get for free, because IWs not making them. Then imagine entire communities and forums built around that one room (server). You recognize people who visit that same room, you befriend them, you have fun with these familiar folks.

The story goes on, and thats what were missing. All of it is gone.If your a console player you don't know what your missing but for a PC gamer its like trying to sell me a "outhouse" after I got used to indoor plumbing.

This isn't about giving the PC gamer or buyer what he wants.If Infinity Ward had asked 12 PC gamers what they wanted in a room NONE of them would have said Peer to Peer.Its a inferior experience over Dedicated Severs(DS).
So why go down that route?...In a word Greed & Control.
With DS You can mod,make maps and share your own content,and other talented people make Mods
and maps available too..
Were talking massive amounts of content http://www.codutility.com/ take a look and see.
And it all free.

Console gamers have to pay for any extra content..why because they dont control their severs so they HAVE NO Choice.
So...if you can take away PC gamers ability to do the above they WILL have to buy what you give them if they want any new Maps or Modifications,they will have no choice..thats the GREED bit.
The fact that the online gameplay is inferior or your giving PC gamers a worse experience isn't the overriding issue for these guys.It not a mistake that they "Cough" mentioned all this at the 11th hour.They knew exactly what they were doing and what it ment.
So as a customer and Fan I'm not being out of line by pointing this out and the full weight of the PC gaming community's displeasure at these developments.It a game we love and the very things that make it great multiplayer powerhouse are being nerfed,not to make a better game we all know that's not the case,but to try and force PC gamers into the console "money" model.

Jandau:

Mrsnugglesworth:

Jandau:
Yaaaay! Broad generalizing statements piling an entire group of gamers into the same insulting label! Great work! [/sarcasm]

There are douchebags and idiots on all gaming platforms and PC is no exception. Singling out PC gamers and saying they should "get over themselves" and such is just plain hypocritical. Also, just stating "PC gamers" implies all of them. This in turn likely means that the person who is using the term in such a broad sense is likely the one who needs to "get over himself".

Oh hey! You may be right, but wasn't his argument supposed to be aimed at PC gamers? (Oh hey, like that? Its called a taste of your own medicine)

Yes, his arguments were directed at PC gamers in general, that's the whole problem with the article. It implies that all PC gamers are whining elitists with a bloated sense of entitlement and should get over themselves. While there is such a population, labeling all PC gamers as such is about as fair as insiting that every 360 user is a homophobic screeching moron who spews profanity all day long while playing Halo. Again, there is such a population, but it's not fair to label all 360 users as such.

Also, you might want to look up the phrase "Taste of your own medicine". I don't think it means what you think it does, or you're just using it wrong. ;)

On the contrary. I'm pretty sure I said that I understood why people were upset and that there were legitimate concerns and grievances to be had.

Buuuuut there are people who need to get the hell over themselves.

vivaldiscool:

This isn't fucking altruism funk, the devs are getting payed for this, we give them our money, we are entitled to the best game they can make. That's the basic concept of capitalism.

no, the basic concept of CAPITALISM is for companies to make money. they dont, and indeed some dont, have to give two shits about you because there is always a market for anything.

case in point, rocks. yes rocks, some people use them to decorate their yards, a free item that you could get anywhere, but you wont, because there is a guy who will sell you rocks so you dont have to get them yourself.

that is Capitalism.

and unless you paid for the game, you are not a customer, so you are not entitled to anything.

also, Ive seen the multiplayer for the PC, its just like multiplayer for the console, which is awesome.

of course, your free to keep playing the first Modern Warfare, since no one is forcing you to buy Modern Warfare 2 so you can play your 50 versions of the same zombie mod.

I'm not big on the whole "turn the other cheek" mentality..as a PC Gamer, I'm rightfully upset and I'm damn sure not going to dissapear quietly..developers and publishers have to understand that quick and dirty ports for alleged triple A titles doesn't wash.

Jandau:

Mrsnugglesworth:

Jandau:
Yaaaay! Broad generalizing statements piling an entire group of gamers into the same insulting label! Great work! [/sarcasm]

There are douchebags and idiots on all gaming platforms and PC is no exception. Singling out PC gamers and saying they should "get over themselves" and such is just plain hypocritical. Also, just stating "PC gamers" implies all of them. This in turn likely means that the person who is using the term in such a broad sense is likely the one who needs to "get over himself".

Oh hey! You may be right, but wasn't his argument supposed to be aimed at PC gamers? (Oh hey, like that? Its called a taste of your own medicine)

Yes, his arguments were directed at PC gamers in general, that's the whole problem with the article. It implies that all PC gamers are whining elitists with a bloated sense of entitlement and should get over themselves. While there is such a population, labeling all PC gamers as such is about as fair as insiting that every 360 user is a homophobic screeching moron who spews profanity all day long while playing Halo. Again, there is such a population, but it's not fair to label all 360 users as such.

Also, you might want to look up the phrase "Taste of your own medicine". I don't think it means what you think it does, or you're just using it wrong. ;)

I have no idea what I was thinking when I said that.

Also, point taken.

MR T3D:
now, the thing here is that i was hoping that as consoles gained hard drive, it'd allow mod support, and that developers would usually release dedi server files for console games, and that online console gaming would evolve into something similar to PC gaming

I... I think you just described my idea of hell.

I just want to say that Operation Neptune ROCKED!!! I wish I could find my old disc for it...

And I'm not choosy about platforms. PC's nice when you need more keys or you're playing an RTS, otherwise it makes very little difference in my opinion.

Chipperz:

MR T3D:
now, the thing here is that i was hoping that as consoles gained hard drive, it'd allow mod support, and that developers would usually release dedi server files for console games, and that online console gaming would evolve into something similar to PC gaming

I... I think you just described my idea of hell.

cool, we have a similar view of hell!

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