Twilight of the She-Geeks

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.... It makes perfect sense..... How did we not see this before... I feel amazed... Holy Merde..... I have to tell somone about this.... O_O

This entire theory for the existence of Twilight seems pretty plausible.

It's a story almost as old as mankind - supernatural, powerful being falls in love with puny mortal.
I just hasn't been done with vampires before, which is a shame, and it has never been done this over-the-top and sparkly (literally), which is NOT a shame.

MelasZepheos:
Seriously, I wouldn't care if it paraded the men around in their swim trunks and all they ever did was engage in erotic foreplay with each other.

Setphanie Meyer is at best a writer of awful self-insert vampire fanfiction, and at worst the incarnation of the devil. I reserve for her the same condemnation I would for any terrible writer. I think many of the 60/70/80s sci fi movies are ridiculous pieces of crap, and not even the frolicking of semi-naked alien chicks can make it better.

Same but inverted gender for Twilight. It's trash, nothing more.

This

I just hate the crappy writing. I'm a hobbyist novelist myself, and, not to be vain or anything, but I'm the best damn fiction writer in my school. I'd say "my local area", but I live near Alan Moore....so yeah...

But I digress. It's shoddy, fanfic, hackwriting with the intellegence and reasoning of a porno flick from the seventies, combined with fetishistic Emo dependecy on relationships for no reason other than petty lonliness.

And the films have the same acting quality of a porno film, too

The_root_of_all_evil:
A friend of mine recommends Georgette Heyer quite highly.

I've been told off for implying that Georgette Heyer is shallow fluff. It's actually well written, well documented historical romance. (which I don't get allegedly)

Ah well.

Casual Shinji:

I do kinda like how Twilight is taking the wind out of Harry Potter's sails.
Al of a sudden the tween girls don't give a sh*t about Harry anymore.

I know, I've noticed this too. Girls who used to like Harry Potter now say it's lame.

Although, I still think Harry Potter is pretty good, not for the cheesy romances, but because he has a wand that shoots sparks at people he doesn't like, while, sayforexample the vampires in Twilight are simply pro athletes with the ability to need to eat people. Wizards>Vampires.

That might be just me. I don't watch movies and read books primarily for character interaction, but for how interesting I think the concept is.

I think this article makes humans sound incredibly crude, and desirous of only the basest forms of entertainment. It makes me loose a little more faith in humanity.

*Runs away in denial*

Here's a snippet of a conversation I had while working the entertainment desk of Asda last Christmas:

Girl - "Hi, do you have any copies of Twilight on DVD? It's my favourite vampire film."
Me - "Yes we do. It's in the chart section. So, it's your favourite vampire film? How did you feel it compared to 30 Days Of Night or the Blade franchise?"
Girl - "Oh, um, I don't really like vampire films. I just love Twilight."

The thing is, I wouldn't take issue if they used Twilight as a stepping stone into better vampire fiction like the pretty great True Blood and the even better stuff like Near Dark, From Dusk Till Dawn, 30 Days Of Night etc, but many of them don't. They watch/read Twilight and assume it's the best thing out there.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Doug:

The_root_of_all_evil:
One little problem with your juxtaposition Bob. If Edward and Jacob are the shallow beef(veggie?)cakes, why is Bella still wetter than a puddle and only half as deep?

Because its a strange oddity that alot of tween girls think that that kind of woman is romantic. Same as alot of tween boys thing Gears of War style gruffness is mannily in real life.

But Jane Eyre, Catherine Earnshaw, Elizabeth Bennet and even Juliet Capulet had more...I hate to say it - ovaries...than Bella.
(What is the female descriptor for guts?)

That's probably because those characters were written by authors with more talent and less emo-ness than Meyers.

Oddly enough, the only person I know who's a big Twilight fan is a bloke. I think he thought they were supposed to be "ironic".

I think the article is certainly on to something. I wonder how long I'll have to wait for someone to write something to cash in on the niche for stuff that doesn't objectify either gender :)

annoyinglizardvoice:

I think the article is certainly on to something. I wonder how long I'll have to wait for someone to write something to cash in on the niche for stuff that doesn't objectify either gender :)

About 2000 years ago. It's about this guy who went around with other guys and this one girl saying it'd be good to be nice to each other. Then he gets nailed to a tree. You wouldn't like it.

scnj:
Here's a snippet of a conversation I had while working the entertainment desk of Asda last Christmas:

Girl - "Hi, do you have any copies of Twilight on DVD? It's my favourite vampire film."
Me - "Yes we do. It's in the chart section. So, it's your favourite vampire film? How did you feel it compared to 30 Days Of Night or the Blade franchise?"
Girl - "Oh, um, I don't really like vampire films. I just love Twilight."

The thing is, I wouldn't take issue if they used Twilight as a stepping stone into better vampire fiction like the pretty great True Blood and the even better stuff like Near Dark, From Dusk Till Dawn, 30 Days Of Night etc, but many of them don't. They watch/read Twilight and assume it's the best thing out there.

Well, this is true of all of the tween age band, for the whole of history. When you start to feel old enough to that people start thinking of you as an adult, you suddenly start thinking everything you've seen that is the 'best of X' is the best X that there ever has been, because... I dunno, I didn't know why I did it when I was tween either.

the1ultimate:

I think this article makes humans sound incredibly crude, and desirous of only the basest forms of entertainment. It makes me loose a little more faith in humanity.

*Runs away in denial*

Well, I think this is abit of a misunderstanding. Base desires sell because they, by their very nature, appeal to the largest audiences. I mean, breasts appeal to all straight/bi men, and bi/lesbian women, penises appeal to straight/bi women, and bi/gay man.

Its the same as cakes are tasty because every member of our species has a drive to eat high-energy foods (a drive that was born in the caves of pre-historic times and hasn't adapted to the modern world). Ok, there are people who don't like cake, but the vast majority do. Because basic desires are wide spread.

But I think the point Bob was making is that this area of "desire" could have been filled with a good book and movie franchise, instead of the horror of twilight.

It all makes sense now. Well lads, we got some apologising to do.

Ok, so I guess I will provide final objectivity, being a girl :p. Personally I don't find these "male objects" in twilight attractive. I see how many girls will, cause that is what magazines tells us we want... While most "geek-fiction" today objectify women a lot, there are many treats for the girls. I guess guys doesn't notice it, and I see why; big breasts are much more fun than the male characters, no matter how awesome. Strong and handsome men with six packs (or more) are present in almost every major movie today, think again if you assume girls ignore this! Video games too give us this, and I find many books try to appeal to women with their male characters, tho a lot more subtle than they would with a female one.

Maybe I'm not one to talk, my attractions are... strange. Enjoy your female objects, just keep in mind we are people too ;)

Oh, and a male friend of mine got the movie today. I so wan't to be there to see how he reacts to some of it!

LewsTherin:
It all makes sense now. Well lads, we got some apologising to do.

Hey, I already offered to set the Dead or Alive crew and the Nija Gaiden crew on fire. I don't see how much more we can do for the female genre...

the1ultimate:

Casual Shinji:

I do kinda like how Twilight is taking the wind out of Harry Potter's sails.
Al of a sudden the tween girls don't give a sh*t about Harry anymore.

I know, I've noticed this too. Girls who used to like Harry Potter now say it's lame.

Although, I still think Harry Potter is pretty good, not for the cheesy romances, but because he has a wand that shoots sparks at people he doesn't like, while, sayforexample the vampires in Twilight are simply pro athletes with the ability to need to eat people. Wizards>Vampires.

That might be just me. I don't watch movies and read books primarily for character interaction, but for how interesting I think the concept is.

I think this article makes humans sound incredibly crude, and desirous of only the basest forms of entertainment. It makes me loose a little more faith in humanity.

*Runs away in denial*

Yeah, Harry Potter's still good. It's just there isn't any more books...

The sad thing about twilight is that all the writer needs is a good story and good characters. There's so much potential... (It wouldn't be a particularly good story, but it would be nice.)

Doug:

the1ultimate:

I think this article makes humans sound incredibly crude, and desirous of only the basest forms of entertainment. It makes me loose a little more faith in humanity.

*Runs away in denial*

Well, I think this is abit of a misunderstanding. Base desires sell because they, by their very nature, appeal to the largest audiences. I mean, breasts appeal to all straight/bi men, and bi/lesbian women, penises appeal to straight/bi women, and bi/gay man.

Its the same as cakes are tasty because every member of our species has a drive to eat high-energy foods (a drive that was born in the caves of pre-historic times and hasn't adapted to the modern world). Ok, there are people who don't like cake, but the vast majority do. Because basic desires are wide spread.

But I think the point Bob was making is that this area of "desire" could have been filled with a good book and movie franchise, instead of the horror of twilight.

I suppose, although cake is far from the only form of food and in a balanced world would be equal to every other form of food. Nor is it healthy to eat only cake.

You would think it would be easier to make a cake that appeals equally to men and women wouldn't you? Otherwise that would imply that in real life men and women, even while living together, will never be satisfied by the same type of cake.

I think... I'm hungry.

Highly insightful.

In all honesty, I saw the movie because I like werewolves. I thought it was stupid that they ran around shirtless, but I did like the fact that they were giant wolves. My boyfriend and I both decided that the pact mentality was a neat idea, and we were glad the film showed that.

But yes, basically the film was stupid.

JeanLuc761:
I just have a problem when it's done this poorly.

And to this end, I have nothing to read in the paper when I ride the bus to work every morning because I live in Vanouver and New Moon is being filmed in like Surrey. Or Chilliwack. Something East of me.
image

Miki91:
Video games too give us this, and I find many books try to appeal to women with their male characters, tho a lot more subtle than they would with a female one.

I'll be honest in this question... men with heads smaller than their biceps are attractive?! And I'll add that I suspect alot of my fellow male gamers don't really like Dead or Alive or Ninja Gaiden. Personally, when I see huge titted female characters, it makes me LESS interested in a game because I suspect the game itself is a pile of crap they are selling via breasts. Hence why I'm not even willing to consider the possiblity 'bayonetta' (or the super-breasted-Sarah-Palin game) will be even ok.

The_root_of_all_evil:

annoyinglizardvoice:

I think the article is certainly on to something. I wonder how long I'll have to wait for someone to write something to cash in on the niche for stuff that doesn't objectify either gender :)

About 2000 years ago. It's about this guy who went around with other guys and this one girl saying it'd be good to be nice to each other. Then he gets nailed to a tree. You wouldn't like it.

I think I saw a picture of that guy once. He was doing the YMCA pose with a bunch of guys in a museum.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Doug:

The_root_of_all_evil:
One little problem with your juxtaposition Bob. If Edward and Jacob are the shallow beef(veggie?)cakes, why is Bella still wetter than a puddle and only half as deep?

Because its a strange oddity that alot of tween girls think that that kind of woman is romantic. Same as a lot of tween boys thing Gears of War style gruffness is mannily in real life.

But Jane Eyre, Catherine Earnshaw, Elizabeth Bennet and even Juliet Capulet had more...I hate to say it - ovaries...than Bella.
(What is the female descriptor for guts?)

As for Bella being poorly characterized, that's the "badly written" part that MB was talking about. Twilight is doing with young girls what Nintendo just did to the video game industry with the Wii. It's just that Twilight doesn't have an equivalent of Mario or Zelda to make people see the true potential. If the first book was good, but the rest were poo, then we could say that the sequels were money grabs, but all the books were crap, so the entire thing was just pandering to female geekdom. The problem with criticizing Twilight is that people just assume that you don't like it because you don't understand it. It's bad writing, but it sells, so it's got a bunch of fans that will come to its defense when someone criticizes it.

the1ultimate:

Doug:

the1ultimate:

I think this article makes humans sound incredibly crude, and desirous of only the basest forms of entertainment. It makes me loose a little more faith in humanity.

*Runs away in denial*

Well, I think this is abit of a misunderstanding. Base desires sell because they, by their very nature, appeal to the largest audiences. I mean, breasts appeal to all straight/bi men, and bi/lesbian women, penises appeal to straight/bi women, and bi/gay man.

Its the same as cakes are tasty because every member of our species has a drive to eat high-energy foods (a drive that was born in the caves of pre-historic times and hasn't adapted to the modern world). Ok, there are people who don't like cake, but the vast majority do. Because basic desires are wide spread.

But I think the point Bob was making is that this area of "desire" could have been filled with a good book and movie franchise, instead of the horror of twilight.

I suppose, although cake is far from the only form of food and in a balanced world would be equal to every other form of food. Nor is it healthy to eat only cake.

You would think it would be easier to make a cake that appeals equally to men and women wouldn't you? Otherwise that would imply that in real life men and women, even while living together, will never be satisfied by the same type of cake.

I think... I'm hungry.

Food is a universal appeal because...well, we all NEED food to live or else we die. And true, a balanced diet is necessary for a healthy life. But I don't think people think to themselves "Oh wow, I really desire an apple now". If they did, the diet industry would be out of business...

Ok...got sidetracked abit their, I think....

Right, what I mean is, cake has near universal desire. As does ice cream, which is linked to the same desire. Both are tied to the drive for high energy foods and so both are wide spread desires.

Sex, on the other hand (ho-ho) has different versions of desire between men and women - men like to see hot women (on average), women like to see hot men (on average). A movie featuring hot men and women could appeal to both, but overdoing the sex appeal means the women get repelled by the breasts, and then men get put off by the abs.

Anywho, no one ever said these desires where logical or healthy - in the early days of our species, eating high energy food was a smart plan because they where so rare and so you couldn't over eat on them. These days, McDonalds alone provides burgers that have a thousand calories in them (literally).

So...erm, yeah...

Ok, so, the Twilight movies are the McDonalds of tween girl desire - not good in large amounts.

Doug:
I'll be honest in this question... men with heads smaller than their biceps are attractive?!

Absolutely NOT! But if you ever put your fear of appearing gay aside for just a little moment (I'm not assuming anything here, if your offended I apologize!) and have a look at magazines intended for your average teenage girl, you will notice that very strong men with a perfect tan is what media wants us to like. And there are plenty of those in male characters!

I personally do NOT find this attractive. So far I have never felt the urge to have sex with anyone with more muscles than anything else on their body, and I don't think I ever will. I'm one of the sane girls, I like the silent and intelligent gamer-types. Unfortunately those are hard to find, and I don't like going to LAN-parties too frequently, in my town a girl there tends to create a lot of fuzz... I don't see why gamer-girls are so fabled, and I find that a large portion of gamers find it hard to belive that I'm not just posing as one. Quite frankly I don't care, you may belive what you want! I'm waaay off topic, arn't I? I'll shut up now, but really: those guys in twilight are NOT cute or hot. It's a stereotype I'm very tired off, much like girls with huge tits. I'm sure most of you don't find that attractive, right? Please don't tell me you like those baloons...

I like Arnold Swarzenegger tho, just cause he's awesome:p.

Doug:

Ok, so, the Twilight movies are the McDonalds of tween girl desire - not good in large amounts.

Ah, that makes sense. So Twilight is mass production junk-food, which has earned hate from humane societies.

That's a thought, it would be awesome if we could unleash PETA on Twilight for cruelty to werewolves or something.

No matter whether the Twilight fans trash PETA or PETA stabs Twilight through the heart, we would be the real winners.

Anarchemitis:

JeanLuc761:
I just have a problem when it's done this poorly.

And to this end, I have nothing to read in the paper when I ride the bus to work every morning because I live in Vanouver and New Moon is being filmed in like Surrey. Or Chilliwack. Something East of me.

Great, so when I move to Vancouver to go to college I'm going to have to hear about that? ):

the1ultimate:

Doug:

Ok, so, the Twilight movies are the McDonalds of tween girl desire - not good in large amounts.

Ah, that makes sense. So Twilight is mass production junk-food, which has earned hate from humane societies.

That's a thought, it would be awesome if we could unleash PETA on Twilight for cruelty to werewolves or something.

No matter whether the Twilight fans trash PETA or PETA stabs Twilight through the heart, we would be the real winners.

Ah, but you have to ask the question - is the cure WORSE than the disease? Seriously, between having a second PETA and Twilight, it'd be a tough call...

Miki91:

Doug:
I'll be honest in this question... men with heads smaller than their biceps are attractive?!

Absolutely NOT! But if you ever put your fear of appearing gay aside for just a little moment (I'm not assuming anything here, if your offended I apologize!) and have a look at magazines intended for your average teenage girl, you will notice that very strong men with a perfect tan is what media wants us to like. And there are plenty of those in male characters!

I personally do NOT find this attractive. So far I have never felt the urge to have sex with anyone with more muscles than anything else on their body, and I don't think I ever will. I'm one of the sane girls, I like the silent and intelligent gamer-types. Unfortunately those are hard to find, and I don't like going to LAN-parties too frequently, in my town a girl there tends to create a lot of fuzz... I don't see why gamer-girls are so fabled, and I find that a large portion of gamers find it hard to belive that I'm not just posing as one. Quite frankly I don't care, you may belive what you want! I'm waaay off topic, arn't I? I'll shut up now, but really: those guys in twilight are NOT cute or hot. It's a stereotype I'm very tired off, much like girls with huge tits. I'm sure most of you don't find that attractive, right? Please don't tell me you like those baloons...

I like Arnold Swarzenegger tho, just cause he's awesome:p.

Nope, not gay the last time I checked. What I meant by the 'heads smaller than biceps' comment is that the majority of tough 'badass' guys in modern gaming seem to match that description (see Gears of War, Resident Evil, and God of War if you ignore his HUGE chin). If you weren't implying that modern video games supply the 'need' for 'hunky men', then my mistake, I probably misread you (it is so late, its early here).

As for finding other gamers, I know your pain - I don't really have many gaming friends; about 1, and he's a bloke. As for why Girl Gamers are fabled, well, don't get this wrong, but up until about...8?ish years ago, finding a Girl Gamer was akin to finding rocking horse shit. And because of the booth babes, male gamers of my generation (I'm about 25) have a built in cynicism towards girls who claim they are gamers because, well, 99% of the time we found them to be posers and fakers. These days, we just are unable to accept things have changed - its like we've been locked in an underground vault for 40 years, believeing the surface was a nuclear wasteland, only to find the surface is actually untouched and everyone had been living normally for that time. Its abit of a shock to the system and we've just not adjusted to the concept that women MIGHT have something in common with us.

As for the balloon sized tits, they don't appeal to me personally, but there have to be some men it appeals too, or else they wouldn't draw them - and Jordon would be an unknown woman (why God, why isn't this so?!)

MovieBob:
So while it's all good and fun to bag on Meyer's crappy books and their goofier fangirls, just keep in mind how hard it is out there for the women of geekdom.

Okay, I can respect how hard it is for the girl geeks. However, the ones that I hang out with have been making fun of me for years for watching science fiction movies with rather impressively endowed women. These same geeks love the Twilight series. Would it be wrong of me to call foul?

One thing I absoulte hate today is Twlight, if one even starts talking about or starts to fap over it I go into rage mode, to the point sometimes I have to stop myself from going off on how horrible the series is. I myself being female have no idea why so many women are obessed with Edward and the werewolf guy, they both are highly abusive towards Bella and women find this attractive and personally find that a huge turnoff. I do understand what your saying about the geek culture had on women are objectified in almost everything but to me I just laugh it off. Also I usually end up reading alot of shojo manga since the men in those stories are closer to want I fantasize about.

Two things:
Supernatural
Smallville

I think both of them have a pretty decent handle on the whole 'man candy' angle, but they manage to have writing/plots that I enjoy (not the best ever, but I find them both entertaining, and typically not annoying), and at least Smallville isn't too stingy with the 'woman candy'.

Supernatural, on the other hand, was ravaged by its fans for trying to add 'woman candy'. I just enjoy how much self-referential humor they get out of the slash-fic angle applied to the story.

Doug:

Nope, not gay the last time I checked. What I meant by the 'heads smaller than biceps' comment is that the majority of tough 'badass' guys in modern gaming seem to match that description (see Gears of War, Resident Evil, and God of War if you ignore his HUGE chin).

As for finding other gamers, I know your pain - I don't really have many gaming friends; about 1, and he's a bloke. As for why Girl Gamers are fabled, well, don't get this wrong, but up until about...8?ish years ago, finding a Girl Gamer was akin to finding rocking horse shit. And because of the booth babes, male gamers of my generation (I'm about 25) have a built in cynicism towards girls who claim they are gamers because, well, 99% of the time we found them to be posers and fakers.

As for the balloon sized tits, they don't appeal to me personally, but there have to be some men it appeals too, or else they wouldn't draw them

Yeah, so I didn't really have Gears of War in mind while writing my comment:p. It's 3am here tho, so I might be a little off:p. Anyway, characters like whats-his-name-again from Uncharted 2 was what I was thinking. Or Tom Hanks from movies. These are the kind of men that should be attractive to women. No one in their right mind would want to date the God of War dude, he makes me laugh!

Huh, I still don't think there are that many female gamers, but I'm sure they are on the rise. I just hope that people will be more open in the future, just cause I killed you doesn't mean I don't have breasts^^

Yeah, balloons must appeal to someone. I know my brother likes balloons, but he's 7 and think pokèmon is the shit, so...

jboking:

Okay, I can respect how hard it is for the girl geeks. However, the ones that I hang out with have been making fun of me for years for watching science fiction movies with rather impressively endowed women. These same geeks love the Twilight series. Would it be wrong of me to call foul?

I don't see how it would be hard for the girl geeks, really. But the Twilight series would naturally appeal to many, especially teenage, girls because of all the sex-objects in it! I think you have all right to make fun of them back, IMO it's exactly the same as you paying special intrest in Sam Carter from Stargate SG1 for example ;) (I like her, she's smart:p). And in stargate I think it's a lot more candy for the girls. I mean Teal'c and "MacGyver" are both awesome, but I used to have the biggest crush on Daniel Jackson^^. Not all geeky girls like geeks tho. Where am I going with this? I really thought I had an answer for your question in here! Well, good luck anyway.

I like Twilight because it is basically porn, and I approve of porn on ideological grounds, so therefore if I am not being hypocritical I also must approve of Twilight. Thanks to the article writer for extrapolating on this basic concept for the good of the Escapist community, thereby saving me the trouble of having to go into any great detail about this myself. After all, if I started a "Twilight is porn" thread I'm SURE it would be locked quicksmart, so this article helpfully saves me from putting my foot in it.

OK, as a girl, I feel compelled to respond to all this. I'll start off by saying I hate Twilight. It objectifies women (what, Bella can't do ANYTHING by herself? Her whole life goes from "O NAO I AM SO DEPRESSED" to revolving around Edward), encourages unhealthy relationships (Edward, remember, is a creepy stalker pedophile), and is just plain terribly written.

That being said, of course I think the werewolves in the movie are hot. That's the point of them being in there. So I can understand why a lot (read: all) women love the werewolves, which are then used to lure them into saying "Oh, yeah, I love the series", even though when you remove the hot guys and put everything into perspective, it becomes an uninspired and slightly creepy series.

Dear God this Twilight fandom has gotten out of control, it's spreading like a plague amongst the ranks of female nerds everywhere. It's a bloody epidemic!

spartan773:
Dear God this Twilight fandom has gotten out of control, it's spreading like a plague amongst the ranks of female nerds everywhere. It's a bloody epidemic!

Indeed, it's about time we started burning people and causing fear trough the media, right?

I agree with some of what was said in the article, but I think some of it is way off track for a lot of twilight fans.

The images of weird twilight girls on T.V. do not speak for its entire fanbase, quite the contrary. I find that most twilight fans I meet keep their enjoyment of the series quiet (including myself), because most fans realize that the entire series is based on dumb fantasy and crappy writing.

The girls on T.V. are the ones who are so starved for any kind of attention from men that they feel they need to shamelessly throw themselves at the actors who portray their favorite characters. (This is the kind of statement that would get me lynched in a room full of "twi-hards" but it's just vibe they're putting out). Another problem with these kinds of fangirls is their obsessive desire for the relationships on-screen to be real off-screen, this is weird, and doesn't allow the actors to have real and separate personalities from their on-screen ones.

Not all twilight fans are like this.
Most are not.

The books are written badly, and they have a tendency to drag-on, with Bella being the most annoying character of all.
But that doesn't make reading them, or watching the movies, any less fun.
Most Twilight fans think the fact that the books are horribly written is VERY FUNNY.
And I find there's nothing better for one of these (normal) fans than sitting through the movie laughing at all the awkwardly written and completely unbelievable dialogue (I.E. "Bella, I have never wanted a human's blood more than I want yours, you're like a drug to me, like my own personal brand of heroine.") with fellow (normal) fans.

Most twilight fans treat the series as a guilty pleasure that they enjoy making fun of with their fellow twilight fans.

Twilight is like a twinkie, it has no nutritional value, and it would not keep you alive.
But sometimes, you just want a twinkie. It is nothing but fluff, and should be treated that way.

Very thoughtful analysis MovieBob! As a longtime fan of vampire fiction, I thought for sure that I'd get into the series along with everyone else. I'm usually a very generous reader/viewer and can get a kick out of a very broad range of media, both thematically and quality-wise. After reading the first Twilight book and seeing the first film last year, however, I was completely stunned. They were beyond awful - clumsy, excessive writing in the book, horrible directing/acting/editing/plot in the film, and both promoting these really creepy messages about female passivity, romanticizing abusive relationships. As the books/film's many critics have also pointed out, the story also re-appropriates the traditional parallels drawn between vampirism & sexuality into this bizarro discourse about abstinence and uncontrollable "male urges", all the while pinning much of the blame on the (would-be) victim for being "too" appealing. Yet, so many of my thoughtful, critical and otherwise extremely discerning friends are completely hooked on the franchise. And despite the huge flaws of the first film and the insane trajectory of the book series, the fanbase continues to grow and become (it seems) more fanatic. It's been a tough phenomenon to understand, and your comments give some much needed perspective about the huge role played by a simple lack of alternatives.Linking Twilight fandom with other forms of geekdom is also helpful - the objects of our geekdom rarely make sense to those outside of the subculture, and of course that's part of what makes them so darned precious and important to us.

I find myself in a curious situation regarding Twilight. On one hand, I have everyone pissing in my ear about how awful it is. And after watching the first film, I am a little shocked that a book of that caliber made it all the way to production as a film. Be that as it may, I can't really bring myself to be upset about the film for a few reasons.

#1. I didn't pay to see it.
#2. I KNEW what it was going in.

What's more, I can't bring myself to be upset about New Moon and its preponderance of man-candy either. Unless said man-candy hinders the rest of the film in some way -- like, say, a David Fincher-style psychedelic swooping sex scene -- then I have an issue. But as to the fact that there's some beef in the display case doesn't bother me.

I long ago accepted that the media, particularly film studios, are catering to the least common denominator. I used to enjoy watching primetime dramas until they slowly morphed into various producers' takes on how hard they could pull on the ends of the sex/violence axes before the show snaps in the middle like an aluminum bar pulled around a telephone pole.

The Twilight series is precisely that: lowest common denominator entertainment. As others have stated before me in this thread, there are lots of womenfolk who don't got for the creepy-sculpted look for their fantasies, but it does test well in most percentiles, so there it is.

My point, which I should probably bring up before this gets any longer, is this: I must disagree with Movie Bob. I'm pretty sure that even if sci-fi/fantasy features specifically marketed towards XX-chromosomers were a healthy, robust subgenre, there'd still be things like the Twilight series out there, because of the lowest common denominator.

Good sci-fi, good anime, good fantasy, these things exist -- they're just hard to find when we're buried the staggering piles of shineless dross that is just good enough to earn some money for the creators. There's no sexual element to the Twilight phenomenon . . . just a monetary one.

That comic book image enlightened me to something: I don't think comic artists actually know how to draw boobs correctly. Even if the shape is right, the placement is all wrong.

On topic, while there's a lot of pandering to male fantasies in geek culture, there's also the simple fact that guys typically like something for more reasons than an inner fetish. At least, anything that becomes hugely popular. Take Conan: The Barbarian as an example. On the surface it seems to be an obsession with blood, violence and screwing women. Oh, and sorcery, too.

Yet just read a blog like The Cimmerian, or really think about the film, and there's always a deeper philosophy to Howard's writings. Is it meant to be some sort of Ivory Tower art form? Hell no, but that doesn't mean there isn't any greater appeal to it.

Twilight is NOT providing the same experience. Male sexual fantasies in games, books, D&D and whatnot are all wrapped up in a greater world of story telling. Twilight's central point is the pandering of sexuality and nothing else.

I will never get the appeal of vampires, but at least I can enjoy Interview With a Vampire despite seeing where the female orgasmo parade comes from.

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