Dante's Inferno

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Fun space game: The game? Sounds like an Asteroids clone to me. Honestly, developers are just getting lazier and lazier.

I'm more interested in "Fun space game: the game" than any other game coming out this year.

Go Yahtzee!

I enjoyed how you picked apart the criticism you got on your Dante's Inferno review and feel you're right.
But I'm happier to hear you're actually doing your space game. We need it.

I don't care what he said about Dante's Inferno Fun Space Game:The Gsme here i come

I'd offer suggestions on what to do with the wonderful, flying-through-space-smashing-into-rocks-oweee! game, but, to be honest, I haven't the foggiest clue what I'd do with it either and even if Yahtzee did notice this post, he'd probably just ignore it anyway, because as awesome a suggestion as I might make *snicker*, the idea of making your own game is to make your own game.

Yahtzee always seems to be pissed off about something. Maybe he should review the Hello Kitty MMO. You know, to relax. I mean its Hello Kitty. There's nothing bad about Hello Kitty. Right?

pneuma08:
I'm sorry, but I can't see the wind metaphor as anything but apt. If you are a sailor before steam power, where you want to go is basically dictated by which way the wind is blowing; if you want to go south and the wind is blowing north, you cannot leave because you can only go north. Dante is saying that people who cannot control their impulses and desires are beholden to them in the same fashion.

Yeah, you can argue that the poor-impulse-control that is Lust kind of spills over into other sins too (you can argue Gluttony as the same thing but for food rather than sex), but that's more of a problem with the classification of the seven deadlies rather than Dante's metaphors.

Now returning you to your regularly scheduled thread.

I haven't played Dante's Inferno, but since I haven't heard stories of it encapsulating all of La Divina Commedia and with all the voice acting in Middle Age Italian with localised subtitles I dare to wildly speculate the story has been adapted where is convenient by the marketing department.

And as happy as I am to channel Bill Hicks and talk about marketing, its the right thing to do in this circumstance. Something incomprehensible in the story? It needs a damned* good reason to stay that way, and the wind metaphor hasn't that.

*Pun. Fucking. Intended.

I'm so glad you're around Yahtzee, you steer me clear of poor choices!

A bit of tough love: I can't help but cringe every time I see the title Fun Space Game: The Game. Seriously? Where's the fucking passion and respect for the project? Just because you (hopefully) haven't decided on a final title yet doesn't mean that you should be taking the piss. It's like a writer referring to his untitled book as "The well written novel". What the hell is the matter with you, Yahtzee? If this is really a labor of love and an outlet for experimentation and creativity, then where is your fucking pride? /Sigh...

Can I just compliment you on the controls for the Fun Space Game? They sound great. I've had much fun with Colony Wars and their arcade-y approach, but it's refreshing to see something this realistic.

Well, space realism has always been ignored, but I think it would bring a breath of fresh air to make an internally-consistent (not strictly realistic, space is still a bore) space game.

So, just for a quick science lesson that so far only hard-sci-fi novels have adopted - movement in space is fast and constant. Your fuel does not determine your range, but your amount of "speed change." With just a gram of fuel, you can get on the other side of the galaxy, in time. There is no air resistance and a vessel with engines powered-down won't decelerate. You make a short burn, the vessel accelerates and then begins cruising indefinitely at the achieved speed, until you turn about and decel the same amount of time that you accelerated. Also, a vessel cruising, with constant speed, can turn at any angle, upside down, do a complete pitch-over, rotate in every way, and still move at the same speed in the same direction. So, you can be speeding towards one point and still have the entire ship pointing directly at the enemy, showing the smallest cross-section.

With your engines shut down, of course. In an atmosphere, merely moving an inch can make an aerodynamic object completely change trajectory, but in space only thrust will do that. This also allows space vessels to have no strict up and down, no wings or other aerodynamic accessories, so ship design that is bulky and unstreamlined starts to makes sense.

Also, large vessels actually have the potential to be thousands of time faster (but less maneuverable) than smaller ones - big fuel tanks equal long burn times equal higher cruising speed. A small stationary pirate vessel that detects a large freighter would probably run out of fuel before it could even match the freighter's speed, and the chase would probably go on for days.

So, small mobile fighter vessels (while they're impractical, it's a freakin' space game! It needs fighters!) would need to be deployed from carriers that have already reached a sort of "encounter speed" with the enemy. This could actually be used for creating something like rail-levels where the player and the NPCs are all independent, but the level itself is also "moving" to simulate everyone traveling at extraordinary (and realistic) space speeds, and the ships' RELATIVE speed is similar, so they seem to be traveling slowly in respect to one another.

Also, stealth in space. It's a complete myth abused in many sci-fi shows, but there is absolutely positively no way to achieve it. Everything that can house a human pilot will have a temperature of at least 290K, which is 287 more than the space background, and thermal sensors can pick it up at millions of miles away. With the engines offline. If it fires up its rockets, even the smallest vessel is like a gigantic flaming beacon in comparison to the rest of the universe. Also, there's no horizon, no atmospheric interference, etc.

One solution would be to make the fighter vessels remote-piloted (the main character is actually on a carrier, which could explain how he survives his ship getting blown up), and the vessels itself are just cockpit-less computers with a chassis, but even then they have engines, power generators, bla bla... And "unmanned drone wars" doesn't make for good drama.

If you really dig the stealth-in-space aspect, I suggest you invent some sort of superscience fields or shields that somehow block any thermal signatures (and make them also act like radiators of waste heat, because gigantic radiator panels aren't stylish). It completely violates physical laws, but every game can afford some unexplained scientific miracle.

For some added realistic grittiness, ditch "plasma" weapons since they're ridiculous, make lasers sustained beams that deal little damage that increases if HELD on the enemy, and with unlimited range (they just dissipate a few million miles away), add kinetic energy weapons (electromagnetic guns would do fine for space combat), missiles, flares, make drive exhausts dangerous (as in, getting caught in a big ship's exhaust is unhealthy, and turning your butt towards an enemy is a sound tactic), etc.

When you determine what the setting's ships are capable of, it's easier to envision how the setting works, how space commerce and, by extension, space politics look like, how are space wars fought, how hard/easy space crime is and if it is commonplace, who guards commercial transfer orbits and how law is maintained in space.

I apologize for my geekyness, but I really like occasionally seeing an often hand-waved element in fiction done right. It makes me think: "Hmm, they really thought this through."

If fun space game follows in the tradition of yahtzee's other game, it will be full of boring self defeating references that serve no other purpose then to be amusing to precisely one person.
I'll believe it's FUN when I've tried it, and not when your box-art tells me.

Lore Sjoberg:
Lustful people spend eternity in a dark damp whirlwind. This is poetic justice in ways I'm not going into.

Seriously, I always thought the whirlwind was one of the better ones.

Carnagath:
If this is really a labor of love and an outlet for experimentation and creativity, then where is your fucking pride?

It's a little bit behind and to the right of his normal one.

Here's the game plot for you.

You're character is a wandering fighter pilot, the last of his kind. Leaving his home world of Omnicron Persius delta niner 5 in his cruiser, he seeks the man responsible for killing off his whole world, and why was he the only one to survive. Along the way you get two other characters to join your crew. A four-armed alien catgirl with M-cup breasts and tentacle monster for a pet, which also turns into a ship for her to pilot, and a moody hair-gel-addicted teen full of angst and lost love who pilots a giant sword-shaped ship (and totally not because of his bulge is more of a crater, and desperately needs the over-compensation).

The epic plot twist?

But wait! Just as you finish learning about this...

He then disappears while proclaiming "What a twist!", twisting his hands in the air, then getting the hell out of there faster than Edward Cullins could pop off the non-existent button to his shirt to let his chest sparkle gaily.

There's your game's plot, and before you say anything, you're welcome! =D

I'll still disagree with Yahtzee on his closing comments in his Inferno review/critique.

Basically writing it off as shit and we should wait for GOW3.I don't own a PS3 so that dosen't work for me.I also enjoyed the game.So difference of opinion I guess.

I rather agree with Yahtzee. I've played, like, an hour and a half of any God of War game all up, and having recently played Darksiders and a bit of Dante's Inferno, they are really far too similar for it to be a sheer coincidence.

Not gonna lie, these things have turned into one of those long, rambling mega-posts that obnoxious people do in games forums absolutely free. Do you ever read back your own texts to yourself?

Eh, nevermind, just read Seneschal post a few more times.

Then go to Atomic Rocket.

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/

"strafing and vertical speeds go down over time"
----Yahtzee

Woah woah woah, please,

For The Love Of Physics,

DO NOT PUT FRICTION IN SPACE!!!1!

Also, you need to do the voice acting for the pilot.

*edit

Carnagath:
A bit of tough love: I can't help but cringe every time I see the title Fun Space Game: The Game. Seriously? Where's the fucking passion and respect for the project? Just because you (hopefully) haven't decided on a final title yet doesn't mean that you should be taking the piss. It's like a writer referring to his untitled book as "The well written novel". What the hell is the matter with you, Yahtzee? If this is really a labor of love and an outlet for experimentation and creativity, then where is your fucking pride? /Sigh...

edit*
Stop me if I'm getting um 'above my station' here BUT our dear venerable Yahtzee is foremost a critic (all creative talents aside) what we can most expect to gain here is how this here kinda 'Fun space game; The Game' should pan out. WITHOUT the meddling interference of dealines/release windows/feasability studies etc
(I leave focus testing out for a reason)

A proper, if you will 'fun space game' no? the emphasis on fun/space and game

as for focus bollocks - CAN WE HAS ROLLING BETA'S!!!!!!!!!!!!

Critical genii such as the aformentioned proliferate knowledge by clearly defining humanities mistakes, Yaht'z does this par exellence no?
(seroiusly it's kinda like Digitiser became sentient)
I couldn't possibly hope for such a valuable talent to posses a similarly great skill in the field of game design+production&publishing
IF ONLY BECAUSE HE IS ONLY ONE MAN AND PERSON WITH SUCH TALENTS WOULD BE IN TOO GREAT A DEMAND TO BEAR WITH NO MORE THAN A HUMAN CONSTITUTION TO FIELD

Tak eit easy Yaht'z, NO PRESSURE

(JUST GET THEM FREAKIN BETAS OUT! I actually can't wait!)

Be cool, Daddy Cool!
AND STOP MESSIN WITH MY BINS FOOL!

@ cursedseishi - WOW! if someone can produce this as an anime I MYSELF WILL FOOT THE ROYALTIES

You sir are a generoustleman.

I am glad to hear your game is going well. Doesn't sound much different than the stuff I go through starting a new engine and game. I am telling you, if you need some models made, I would love to help. Got to get my name out there some how!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vmA_A2G8m8

^ My final for Audio and Visual Design!

Shameless self promotion for the win!

I totally have a plot for you space flight game.

You're out in space one day, and you--being the moron that you are--go and crash your lil' ship into an asteroid and get sent to the twelth ring of hell (for people who crashed perfectly good ships into asteroids) where the punishment is constantly crashing your ship into asteroids, but you get tired of it so you decide instead to go on a journey to invade satan's planet one space station and asteroid at a time. :D

Your game sounds promising. If you truly nail the feel of flying through rocks and the danger of coliding with them, then you might just leave it at that and focus on that aspect to polish it.

It's very important for a game to give you a feeling of danger for immersion, kind of how people don't realize how important fall-damage is for platformers to truly work and immerse you within the confines of the world.

As for the story: I'd say go all out. Make something ridiculous and invent some likable characters that go along with it. It'll be hard to tie the story to the gameplay that way, but in my opinion your strength lies in humerous writing and inside jokes, so an overly serious approach probably won't work as well. It's supposed to be the Fun Space Game, so I'd go for a fun story.

Edit: Ah fuck it, I might aswell recommend a silly story like the rest.

You're an amateur pilot that wakes up after having crashed on a rock. Through his long drug history and the mental effects of the crash, the protagonist has a set of visions and halucinations and comes up with a radical document called : The Futurist Manifesto of the Future.

In it he pledges people to live their lives for speed, destruction and to destroy what has become before them. He glorifies war and especially the travel with machines (thus him being a pilot and upgrading his flying machine), likening them to the beauty of female breasts. He gets a sturdy following of young dipshits that are way too much into flying machines, and ultimately forms a form of facism in the galaxy. Through a long and untangled war he ends up being killed in the last stand of flying facism, ironically in old age since his manifesto spelled doom on the elderly.

The end.

MGlBlaze:

sizzle949:
Still enjoyed Dante, even if it was a rip off (blatantly). Can't wait to get a good look at Fun Space Game: The Game though!

It's sort of like how "Dot Game Heroes" on the PS3 is a blatant Zelda rip-off (or it seems to be), but I'm still looking forward to it. Just because things are very similar or 'ripped off' doesn't make them bad games, after all. Not to mention DGH has a very intriguing art-style.

There's a very fine line here. DI seems to play down the whole 'copying another game' aspect. I'm sure the developers have admitted it, saying something like they were "inspired" by the GoW franchise, but that bollocks doesn't count. They ripped it off without mercy and/or irony for their own benefit. If you almost completely copy a game and do it 'staight-faced' without a hint of sublety or conscious irony then it leads me to resent the developers for it.

I'm not so sure about DGH. It's an obvious rip-off of the gameplay and athmosphere, but it seems to do so with irony and self-awareness. The whole idea and premise of the game "overwhelming the player in nostalgia but taking it to the extreme" wouldn't work if they hadn't copyied a style that induces nostalgia to begin with. The art style also helps it from feeling completely copyied.

It all comes down to this: DI copies it straight-faced and bluntly, DGH copies it more tongue-in cheek and cleverly. It comes down to the intention for me. I don't know much about DGH, all I know I could be completely false and it's an even worse knock-off than DI.

Gbadude3:

BlueInkAlchemist:
I look forward to Fun Space Game: The Game.

Ya and I can't wait for all the fan-made "Zero Punctuation" style reviews that are bound to show up on Youtube the day it comes out.

I've got my recording equipment ready ;)

I bet it won't be as fun as Dwarf Fortress. Then again, what's more fun than building a lava cannon out of wood? Or 2 cats? or trapping elven traders in the bowels of my mountains then releasing the flood gate?

Ninjamedic:
In regards to your game, it better have a star fox style control system.
....sorry I'm still depressed over star fox adventures....

I liked Star Fox adventures :(. Granted, a combat/platformer isn't really what you'd expect from the Star Fox franchise, but it was cool that they tried something new with it, and I thought they did a pretty good job of it.

I'm disappointed that my big question didn't get answered about the dante's inferno review.
Why did the imps have afros at about the 2:45 mark?

Mr. Croshaw:
Devil May Cry might have created a model for frantic hack-and-slash gameplay, but God of War gave it style.

Ironic considering DMC was all about the style points.

I, too, grow tired of the expression "God of War clone" but that doesn't make it any less true. But this is the way the gaming industry, as well as most industries, work. If something slightly innovative works, expect 50 more in the next half-decade. I wonder if Heavy Rain's innovation will be seen in several games in 5 years time.

I hate to be an optimist but you didn't waste weekend you figured out one way not to make fun space game: the game.

Brotherofwill:
I'm not so sure about DGH. It's an obvious rip-off of the gameplay and athmosphere, but it seems to do so with irony and self-awareness. The whole idea and premise of the game "overwhelming the player in nostalgia but taking it to the extreme" wouldn't work if they hadn't copyied a style that induces nostalgia to begin with. The art style also helps it from feeling completely copyied.

It all comes down to this: DI copies it straight-faced and bluntly, DGH copies it more tongue-in cheek and cleverly. It comes down to the intention for me. I don't know much about DGH, all I know I could be completely false and it's an even worse knock-off than DI.

Well, Dot Game Heroes hasn't been released yet and I haven't seen much hype for it at all, so that's pretty understandable. I think I saw, like... one trailer for it on GT. Of course, it could be a blatant rip-off even with the art-style, but I'm going to check it out anyway.

I can see what you mean, though; I haven't played DI myself, but if they really did rip it off that much then I think the least they could have done would be to throw in an easter-egg or something as a self-parody.

I don't think ripping a game off immediately makes another game bad, though, and I personally would still get it as long as it was at least fun, although I wouldn't exactly be queuing up for it on release day or for the limited special collector's platinum edition: reloaded the revenge the return turbo et cetera.

Catacomb 3-D! That was maybe the second computer game I ever played, and I have been trying to remember the name of it for ages. Thanks, Yahtzee.

MGlBlaze:

Brotherofwill:
I'm not so sure about DGH. It's an obvious rip-off of the gameplay and athmosphere, but it seems to do so with irony and self-awareness. The whole idea and premise of the game "overwhelming the player in nostalgia but taking it to the extreme" wouldn't work if they hadn't copyied a style that induces nostalgia to begin with. The art style also helps it from feeling completely copyied.

It all comes down to this: DI copies it straight-faced and bluntly, DGH copies it more tongue-in cheek and cleverly. It comes down to the intention for me. I don't know much about DGH, all I know I could be completely false and it's an even worse knock-off than DI.

Well, Dot Game Heroes hasn't been released yet and I haven't seen much hype for it at all, so that's pretty understandable. I think I saw, like... one trailer for it on GT. Of course, it could be a blatant rip-off even with the art-style, but I'm going to check it out anyway.

I can see what you mean, though; I haven't played DI myself, but if they really did rip it off that much then I think the least they could have done would be to throw in an easter-egg or something as a self-parody.

I don't think ripping a game off immediately makes another game bad, though, and I personally would still get it as long as it was at least fun, although I wouldn't exactly be queuing up for it on release day or for the limited special collector's platinum edition: reloaded the revenge the return turbo et cetera.

A true ripoff has no soul of it's own. That is what kills them, and what killed DI. If they had tried to give it it's own style like Kamiya did with Bayonetta DI could have been good if not great on it's own. Visceral took only the surface things that comprise God of War and called it a day; apparently they did not actually understand what made God of War as good as it is.

Namewithheld:
Eh, nevermind, just read Seneschal post a few more times.

Then go to Atomic Rocket.

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/

Yeah, I should have just put that link instead. :p

And don't forget the Rocketpunk Manifesto.

http://www.rocketpunk-manifesto.com/

I understand you can't make a completely realistic space warfare game without having two ships lasering each other from 900 million miles over a period of two days in hope the other one has thinner armor. It needs something more dynamic. But a random scientifically accurate detail every now and then would make us nerds giggle.

i've tried both god of war and dante's inferno, and i agree with Mr. Ben Croshaw, they are definatly the same, but i dont care about it at all, all i'm interested in is Fun Space Game: The Game!

hope to god Mr. Ben releases it to the general public :D

P.S. i still play wolfenstien 3D on my PS3, and i do actually still have the floppy disk version of it :D RETRO!

Looking forward to Fun Space Game: The Game. Hoping it will be released under GPL so I can grab the source code and see if I can make some of it myself. Or maybe just port it to Linux for the hell of it.

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