It's Time To Forgive George Lucas

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT
 

Here's a thought from left field: Perhaps George Lucas has done the world a favor by destroying/raping his most popular franchises - franchises that extolled a simplistic us vs. them morality (Star Wars) and uber-macho womanizing coupled with disregard for cultural sensitivity (Indiana Jones). We're talking about a man with decidedly liberal tendencies forced to endure decades of conservative twits (Reagan foremost among them) co-opting his fantasies to shill imperialist policies. It's probably not a coincidence that the very generation that was born into the Star Wars universe (those in their mid-30s right now) skew conservative to a much higher degree then others just a little bit older or younger.

The take-away? George Lucas is killing his (cinematic) children so that they're never raped by conservative politicians again. The man deserves a f**king medal.

Didn't George Lucas address this sort of thing when he was interviewed on The Daily Show? You can basically tell where the fans feelings lie based on what iteration of Star Wars was out when they were under the age of 10. There's an entire generation that loves the prequels, it's just that they're currently 12-13 years old. There's even an up an coming generation that loves Clone Wars that is currently under the age of 8.

Rose tinted glasses people.

This might have been touched upon in an earlier post but I don't have time to read them all and this just occurred to me.

You're saying we should forgive George Lucas for "raping our childhood" by making shitty toy commercials for the prequels right?

What's your justification for hating Michael Bay again?

I never really stopped loving star wars. And I never really thought he destrooyed the series...Even though Jar jar doesn't deserve the very thought of exsistence, and well he's a good director and Im happy it existed. All of it.

I never hated lucas and i kinda liked the prequels because of the advance in technology.

Never really understood the hate for jar jar he was annoying but hating him was pointless.

Macgyvercas:
Why do I have to forgive him? There's nothing to forgive. I actually liked the Star Wars Prequels and Indian Jones IV. *runs away before the flaming starts*

Star wars prequels i can understand, there is a lot of conflicting opinion about that specially from those who saw them before the original trilogy...

...but Indiana Jones IV, seriously?

image

Bastard decided to run Star Wars off of a cliff

Shame my creator heroes are dead. But if George Lucas dies of stomach cancer just like J.D. Salinger, Osamu Tezuka and H.P. Lovecraft did... I'll be scared of the implications that stomach cancer kills visionaries.

The Star Wars prequels WERE my childhood - how could George Lucas have raped it if my childhood WAS watching the prequels? Lately I'm more into Star Trek TOS for its cheesiness and kitsch, but Star Wars is a freaking phenomenon despite it only spanning at its core 6 movies. I couldn't imagine what my childhood would be like without Star Wars, I mean, I wasn't old enough to figure out anime like Macross existed yet, and Star Wars was the only sci-fi around that I was old enough to watch because Alien and Terminator were too violent for a six year old.

George Lucas is a good ideas man, I'll give him that. He also created as many childhoods as he allegedly destroyed - I used to like Jar-Jar Binks even though everybody else hated him as a kid.

I've never had a damned thing against Lucas.

I've only chastised myself for having allowed nostalgia to convince me that Episodes IV - VI were so much better.

Hayden Christensen is another matter.

Ok, maybe we can forgive him, but should we forget? The next time Lucas makes a movie, we should all just march in there regardless of how low its score is on Rotten Tomatoes?

I don't think so. If the modern-day Lucas is only capable of putting out terrible movies then there's no reason for us to reward him by continuing to go out and see them.

amen brother!

The prequels suck, and it's not just nostalgia talking. I watched both the prequels and the originals as an adult. Anyone with any sense of critical thought in regards to cinema can recognize the overall shittyness of the prequels.

In fact, I think star wars fans have a tendency to forgive a lot of the basic amateurish mistakes in the prequels simply because it is star wars. Could anyone honestly imagine people accepting such shitty film making in any other franchise?

It wasn't just Lucas who fucked up, but he is certainly the easiest to blame because star wars is his little baby bitch. If anything, it seems like there isn't enough criticism against it since it's obviously not getting through to him.

I think the biggest issue with the prequels is that they are totally flat. Lucas is a good director, we have seen him do good direction. But the prequels almost seem like he want arse backwards, like whatever he learned over the years was flushed down the toilet. This is a much larger problem than the badly written story and hammy acting(which admittedly was kind of an issue with the originals as well).

image

To be honest I never really hated the Prequels or *cough*Binks*cough*, but I think it's time this should end. Lucas your forgiven, buddy.

Proteus214:
Didn't George Lucas address this sort of thing when he was interviewed on The Daily Show? You can basically tell where the fans feelings lie based on what iteration of Star Wars was out when they were under the age of 10. There's an entire generation that loves the prequels, it's just that they're currently 12-13 years old. There's even an up an coming generation that loves Clone Wars that is currently under the age of 8.

Rose tinted glasses people.

image

I cannot forgive.

The cartoon was awful.

I don't hate Lucas, I hate his new films. I quit watching that new Indiana Jones after he survived a nuke in a fridge. Which I might add was the original idea for Back to the Future, the nuke would have initiated time travel. Is he to blame? Sure, do I really care what he does with his movies? No, not really.

George Lucas's main problem is he's too big to fail. Nobody stands up to him, and I'm sure he now has the final say on what goes into a picture and what doesn't. Compare this to his more classic films like Raiders of the Lost Ark and Empire Strikes Back, where Lucas seemed to be a lot more collaborative with the scriptwriters and co-directors. Honestly, Lucas shouldn't be let within 10 miles of the scriptwriter's office. When he writes his own screenplay, you get Jar Jar Binks and The Hills/Naboo.

My biggest hope is that someone can reboot either the Star Wars or Indiana Jones series just like they did with the latest Batman and Star Trek movies. Probably won't happen until Lucas dies unfortunately.

AngelOfBlueRoses:
There's nothing too forgive. I liked the prequels for what they were and I'm a devoted Star Wars fan. While he could have made Anakin less of an emo, it's not bad. Move on, people.

Plus, did you notice that the guy in RedLetterMedia can't properly say "Protagonist"? Seriously? You can't say protagonist? It's like a 9th grade word. I didn't trust his review at all after that.

I realize you posted this a few days ago... But if you are incapable of understanding the satire of the Red Letter Media review, then don't comment on it. He purposely mispronounced it, purposely used a hickish, unintelligent accent.

I can forgive George Lucas, but I can't forgive the Universe for not creating a black hole to consume all copies of the Star Wars Holiday Special before I accidentally watched it. I like to think of George Lucas as one that works towards perfecting his vision, and making the movies like he originally intended with modern tools, and even though I don't approve, I respect his decision.

In terms of what the franchise was before and after, the 1999 release of The Phantom Menace was akin to The Pope - or maybe even a messiah Himself - appearing before a congregation with a thunderous declaration of "Just kidding!"

I just about fell out of my chair laughing at that line.

I don't think George did anything wrong, I think he just did what he felt was appropriate for the kind of cinema we're presented with today. It's like when the "new kid" on the scene does something to redefine what that scene is. Then a seasoned veteran on that same scene takes up the challenge of utilizing what that redefinition is in their own work. People expect a lot from the veteran because of his past successes and how it impacted their lives at that time. So when you don't get what you were expecting, you flip your fuckin' lid over it.

I'm not a fan of the Prequel films myself, so... I simply don't watch them. Or acknowledge them for that matter. If I don't see it, it doesn't exist; Ostrich Syndrome FTW. I didn't like the wanton abuse of CG effects or some of the actors cast for certain roles. I didn't like the fact that a lot of the characters were so hard to become emotionally invested in or were simply unlikeable. Of course, that's my opinion.

Now, for the Special Editions of the original Trilogy, there's been like, what... 4 or 5 different Special Editions/Remasters since the mid-90s? I think I liked the very first Remasters of all of them, they were spruced up jut enough without going ape-shit on the CG. I've always said a balance of actual optical effects and CG effects make for the best presentation. When it's 100% CG it's too hard to believe. If you can film a scene with real actors/props/puppetry/make-up effects... you should. When a scene calls for something humanly impossible to be performed, then you go to the CG effects.

I guess I sound like one of those "elitist" Star Wars Assholes but I really was trying to sound more logical and calm about it. Probably doesn't help I have the original trilogy on Laserdisc, does it? ^_^;

Don't feel too bad for George. The internet may be full of people who loathe him, but if you go to a convention, you'll find that the majority of people there would probably be willing to jerk Lucas off in public at his say-so. I remember sitting in a large audience at a comic-con panel showing a preview of the animated Clone Wars movie, and feeling from the behavior and reactions of the crowd and the questions they chose to ask that I was in the strict majority for not feeling that everything George Lucas touched was gold.

The only thing I didn't like besides Anakin being a whinging snot in the prequels, was fucking about with the original movies, okay the CGI for the space sequences and battles was great, but changing the noise of Obi Wan scaring the sand people away, and then changing the ghost of Anakin in ROTJ!???

Other than that he contributed a huge leap in SFX and sound recording.

Lots of people prefer the original trilogy because they liked the idea of the good guys being the outcasts...but I prefer to cheer for the Sith in the Star Wars movies, so I prefer the second trilogy because I like the Sith being the outcasts

I found out that Star Wars episode 1 was coming out 2 years before it actually did, and so I set to work, I watched 1 episode of Star Wars EVERY SINGLE DAY for 2 YEARS......at the end of it I could recite the thing backwards if I had to, I could translate each one of R2D2s Lines into English without even thinking, I was a Star Wars expert by all accounts, and then when the day finally came that the film released, and I went with my father and mother to witness this momentous event, what did I get? SHAT ON!!!!! that's what!!!! there were SO SO SO many loop holes I couldn't stop counting them!!!!! the story was, well just not there, the special effects, Meh they were good, but not good enough to carry the film, and yes I realize that was a large part of the hype when episode IV was released, but that was never what I loved, I fell in love with the story of a young orphan's journey from farm boy to Jedi Master.

and the WORST THING about this, the thing that made it TRULY unforgivable, was that fact that we now had 3 crappy PREQUELS. NOW when I have kids, and I try to instill upon them the same love of star wars that I grew up with, it won't happen, because they will be young and impressionable. And if I don't show them the prequels someone else will. They will look at the superior special effects and instantly prefer episodes 1 2 and 3 because they will be too young to reach for the story. They will see Darth Vader, not as the menacing embodiment EVIL he once was and instead as a poor kid who was forced to grow up too fast and lost his loved one. They will not be shocked upon seeing Episode V for the first time with the ever famous lines "No Luke, I AM your father." because they will not see it as a mystery. they will be confused and possibly disgusted by the lustful looks that Luke gives Leah in Episode IV and even more so by the kiss she gives him in Episode V. and Finally the part where Luke asks Leah about her " REAL mother" and she goes on about her beauty, will be such BS they won't be able to understand why one twin who is five seconds old will remember her mother but the other that is eight seconds old does not.

THIS is why I and those like me will NEVER forgive George Lucas. Plain and Simple.

That was amazingly well written, and a good read all around.

It's not as though Star Wars is just going to go away. The prequels that many hated were still loved by some. They were by no means flops in terms of the box office, and it would be pretty shocking to not see some more films within the Star Wars universe.

Will it have anything to do with the original story? Who knows. But that doesn't really matter much to the vast majority of the population, as long as the movies are good.

Oooukay, even if I go along with Bob and forgive Lucas for SW 1-3 I can still hate him for the the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, right? Haha, just kidding! I don't really hate Ol' Georgie!
I just wish the senile old ass would stop making more mediocre movies.

P.S. I don't really get all this "LEAVE GEORGE LUCAS ALONE!!" business, it's not like the poor man is down on his luck right now. In fact, if I confess to being a dirty commie dog, will I be officially allowed to hate that filthy imperialist swine?

I don't think the angst over the horrible prequel movies really has that much to do with anger directed at George Lucas as a person. It's more a feeling of betrayal - that we had all concluded that Mr. Lucas is a really great film-maker, only to be handed significant evidence to the contrary.

Now George Lucas might be a brilliant technological innovator or buisness director - but he's a terrible movie director. It's possible that given the right enviornment he can contribute great things to a movie, but the fact that he himself is ignorant of his own strengths and weaknesses remains a serious problem.

It's just that decades long misguided hero worship takes even more decades to redact. We all overestimated George and some people get really defensive about admitting that. Maybe he'll once again prove helpful to making a movie again - we'll see.

Lucas is an amazing producer, one of the best. He can find great people to do amazing things and Bob cites several perfect examples in his original post. The problem is when he gets his hands on the minutia things start to go all pear-shaped.

But I think it's important to know why Lucas has engendered such resentment. The original Star Wars trilogy was the fable and mythology that joined lifelong influences like Aesop, Church, King Arthur legends, and older siblings. Han was the rascal redeemed, Luke was the youth learning who he could be, and so on. Sure it's only entertainment to me now, but my inner kid feels like his rewrite of history is an attempt to change or invalidate the very culture which raised me. (I am shocked at how good the Clone Wars series is.)

But I can forgive that. I can also forgive that his changes to the film are on a very basic level defiling art, either out of hubris, or a very basic inability to "get it".

Really I guess I just pity him, the closer he actually get to something, the more likely it is to change from gold to crap. It's like his influence is an amazingly positive thing up to a point, then past a given event horizon it starts to implode.

Onyx Oblivion:
You know what? I never blamed him in the first place. There is nothing to forgive.

The next time I see Star Wars, it will be the remastered versions. Because it doesn't fucking matter.

Exactly.

(I actually liked the Prequel trilogy, even if Anakin as a kid, and Jar Jar, were pretty bad. The first two had their weaknesses, but the third was fine, imo.)

Theres two issues with the whole "George Lucas killed Star Wars" thing which i believe are....
1. The fan base took the works of Lucas (the original 3) and ran with it creating there own view of the star wars universe and are unhappy with how Lucas seems distant from the lore of the Star Wars universe. The issue being that Star Wars wasn't a fully realized IP when it was created and the detail that the fans look into the lore is more than what was originally created for the movies (thus much of the continuity errors).
2. The vision Lucas had for Star Wars was diffrent than what he was able to create (limited budget and technology) and by going back and "fixing" the originals to shower a better realized vision of what he wanted to make, he committed one of the cardinal sins of an artist by trying to change his original works of art.
In light of number 1 Lucas should of honestly realized that theres no way in hell to go back and make more Star Wars movies without pissing a lot of people off. Eather he didn't foresee the backlash of making episodes 1,2,3 or he accepted that people would be pissed and went full force in making the movies how he wanted them to be with zero regard for what the fans would think.
One thing that is clear is that Lucas changed a fair bit in his style and view as an artist between the original movies and the prequels. By going back to this IP with a new and diffrent outlook and trying to change much of the tone of the series was really a critical mistake and now hes paying for it. (with making a boat load of cash, gaining the ire of a large portion of the Star Wars fanbase, and the disgrace as an artist for trying to fix a past work.)
I loved the originals and was only upset with episode 1 (putting Jar Jar into ANY movie is a crime against humanity, let alone in a Star Wars movie). Honestly i was ok with 2 and 3 but understood that they did not equal the greatness of the originals.

Star wars fans might have forgiven bad movies if their heart was in the right place, but the prequel trilogy isn't just bad, it's just plain wrong, created with no regard for what made the original trilogy great.

Personally, I hate George Lucas for replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christiansen in Return of the Jedi. However else you feel about the star wars movies, digitally replacing an actor with someone else is just plain horrible, both to Sebastian Shaw and actors in general. Go fuck yourself, Lucas.

The_root_of_all_evil:

zelda2fanboy:

The_root_of_all_evil:
You could say the same about Zelda ;)

You could. Note that my handle is somewhat ironic. Zelda 2 is the most punishing and most hated game in the series. It's fanboy poison.

Ah, then fair game. I picked the reference so you could feel my pain.

duchaked:

The_root_of_all_evil:

Release the ORIGINAL prequels on DVD for a reasonable price. None of this "enhanced" version, as it was just plain effing about with a classic.

lol chill

We all have our little rage-points, that's one of mine. Don't even get me started on Michael Grade :)

but I think they did release the original (unedited) movies on DVD, I didn't buy it (yet) but I'm pretty sure it's been out there for a while now

Not updated the sound and the video though, so it looks like it's been camcordered in a cinema. And that's before I start on Indiana Jones and the Fridge of Doom ;)

It's like watching Steve Martin doing Clouseau. You know that even at his greatest, he can't top the sheer love the original had, but still he keeps digging.

It's because I love the Universe that I get so annoyed when the "author" decides to re-write it against not only his own ideals, but those that made it popular in the first place.

Next week I'll tell you how Disney has re-wrote Bambi so that Bambi's Mother never dies, she just goes away. True story.

wait bambi whaaat???

lol nvm, never really got into that movie even as a kid

idk why, it just felt...slow

I saw "The People vs. George Lucas" at SXSW. It's a very entertaining documentary, if nothing else, but as a documentary it sits in an odd place.

First of all, the only people who will want to see it, and will enjoy it much, are Star Wars fans who are already intimately familiar with the debates and subject material presented. There's not much knowledge granted to the audience except for a few obscure details, and most of the pleasure comes from seeing people like Neil Gaiman talk about Chewbacca.

The reaction was pretty stark between people who knew about the material in advance and people who didn't. After I came out of the theater, there were a lot of non-Star Wars fans in line dismissing it as "two hours of pussy geeks whining about who shot who first" in a scene they didn't remember in the first place. So though I enjoyed it, and think other Star Wars fans will enjoy it, I don't think it will have any wide appeal and I'm not sure who the target audience is. The fans won't learn anything, non-fans are just perplexed by the subject matter, and to be honest, a lot of the pleasure comes from "hey, a debate I had with my friends is on a movie screen!" moments. Ultimately the film pretty much comes to the same conclusion as MovieBob, but as a thesis it doesn't make much of an impact. It won't change any minds, but it's worth seeing.

Allow me to be one of the few to make this statement: I don't like Star Wars. Never have. Still to this day I haven't fully watched the first three movies. I adore sci-fi movies so I'm grateful for all the Lucas has done but I'm still miffed about the abortion of a movie that was the last Indiana Jones.

Besides, Star Wars is way more fantasy than sci-fi :P

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here