Yahtzee vs. the JRPG

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 NEXT
 

I remember him mentioning Earthbound and Paper Mario as games he liked when he reviewed Super Paper Mario. I also liked those two, and very few other RPGs. Haven't tried Chrono Triggers and Final Fantasy 6.

VGFreak1225:
I can respect that.

By the way, if you never did finish Chrono Trigger Yahtzee, you should try the DS remake. I know that that you hate remakes, but the New Game + mode makes it much faster to tackle the bosses for succeeding runs and to get the other endings, even if you still need to finish them the traditional way the first time.

I highly doubt that Yahtzee is willing to go through all the trouble of beating the bosses he got bored with originally again on a hand-held. Also, do you really believe he'd be the type to complete several play-throughs to get all the endings?

Vanille is indeed over 500 and with all the mental maturity of someone who is 8. Seriously, if I EVER met a woman like that in real life I'd strangle her just to keep her from sucking everyone's intelligence into her black hole of kookiness. -shudders- The FF team needs a SERIOUS reexamination of characters in fiction.

Anyway, aw nuts, I was hoping for a mailbag showdown. Oh well, Yahtzee did his time with the game (time he didn't need to) so he's suffered enough. And I'm definitely going to keep an eye on Mogworld

FBPH:

VGFreak1225:
I can respect that.

By the way, if you never did finish Chrono Trigger Yahtzee, you should try the DS remake. I know that that you hate remakes, but the New Game + mode makes it much faster to tackle the bosses for succeeding runs and to get the other endings, even if you still need to finish them the traditional way the first time.

I highly doubt that Yahtzee is willing to go through all the trouble of beating the bosses he got bored with originally again on a hand-held. Also, do you really believe he'd be the type to complete several play-throughs to get all the endings?

Just a thought. Not saying he'll like it, but I'm just throwing that out there. Heck, Chrono Trigger is short for that very reason.

The ones that arent japanese nor rpgs

I'm glad he mentioned Chrono Trigger. It's one of my favourite games and in my opinion it is a shining example of a JRPG done correctly. However, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, Pokemon Blue, and Final Fantasy VII are the only JRPGs I have completed, so I am far from an expert on the subject.

As far as Final Fantasy goes, I haven't completed any installment other than VII (and despite what people say about it I still love it), but I always check out the new installments. So far none of them have appealed to me. I even played XII for the first hour or so before I couldn't stand it any longer; The characters, story, and gameplay were very underwhelming, yet seemingly overcomplicated at the same time. The XIII trailers I have seen do not convince me it is anything different. I'm going to stop getting my hopes up for another good FF game.

Though I have been meaning to check out VI, but I always get sidetracked. I'm more inclined to give it a whirl with Yahtzee's recommendation, because if somebody who hates Final Fantasy likes it, it must be doing something right.

VGFreak1225:
I can respect that.

By the way, if you never did finish Chrono Trigger Yahtzee, you should try the DS remake. I know that that you hate remakes, but the New Game + mode makes it much faster to tackle the bosses for subsequent runs and to get the other endings, even if you still need to finish them the traditional way the first time.

...New Game+ was already in the original, and this is more of a port with some extra content rather then a remake.

Anyways, which boss fight takes a half hour to complete? The only one I can think of that takes that long is the final boss. Golem, maybe?

It seems like Final Fantasy Thirteen went out doing one of two things. A overly flashy battle system that 'looks' very actiony and exciting to try to convince people that it's faster-paced than the usually JRPG, that when you actually play you realize you have so little control of it's hard to bear. Then the actual story of the game which seems meant to hook in thirteen year old girls who spend all their time writing Final Fantasy Fan Fiction by making the characters only able to develop by constantly making them depressed or using typical anime 'humor' (Tee-hee! My Tattoo is on my butt!).
Choco-fro guy was surprisingly charming and interesting though, making him seem wildly out of place, if the game focused on him it would've been a hundred times better.

Yahtzee after seeing quite a few games get shot down by you that I enjoy to play, and then all of the sudden you turn around and say you liked my top 3 favorite games of all time. I believe I gained quite a bit more respect in your opinion. Your show is one of the only reasons I come to this website, keep up the excellent criticism.

Personally, I gave up on FF13 just as I got to Pulse (you know, the "BUT IT GETS GOOD TWENTY HOURS IN!!1!" part that the fanboys keep bellowing about). Besides the fact that I'd had an increasingly difficult time giving a shit about any of the characters already, I realized that the ending would probably come along after I was done doing whatever the game wanted me to do in its one and only non-hallway section, that FF games tend to have massive difficulty spikes at the end, and that to have any hope of winning, I was probably going to have to start grinding here--and I hate goddamned grinding. So yeah, one day I went to turn the game back on, and I realized that I just didn't want to.

Also, even twenty hours in, I still wasn't completely sure what the fuck the story was about, and no, I wasn't interested in reading the mountain of crap in the "datalog" to find out. Yes, the Mass Effect games have the same thing, but at least they don't force you to read it in order to know what's going on. I never had to; everything I needed to know about the story was actually included in the story.

PhunkyPhazon:

VGFreak1225:
I can respect that.

By the way, if you never did finish Chrono Trigger Yahtzee, you should try the DS remake. I know that that you hate remakes, but the New Game + mode makes it much faster to tackle the bosses for subsequent runs and to get the other endings, even if you still need to finish them the traditional way the first time.

...New Game+ was already in the original, and this is more of a port with some extra content rather then a remake.

Anyways, which boss fight takes a half hour to complete? The only one I can think of that takes that long is the final boss. Golem, maybe?

I stand corrected.

Also, forgot to mention: Look into Golden Sun as well. Still one of my favorite JRPGs of all time, and old-school to boot.

pretentiousname01:

The Critic:

I'm in the same boat, so to speak.

Western RPGs (Fallout 3 in my case) and CRPGs (KotOR I and II, though II isn't strictly defined as a CRPG) have pretty much destroyed any promise that JRPGs can ever hold in my eyes (I suppose that which games bring this revelation to your eyes is a matter of personal taste, so I'll leave my other opinions out of this).

Granted, I still play Pokemon games, for some inexplicable reason. Probably nostalgia, but I could be missing something.

Oh god, don't get me started on pokemon. In fact... do get me started

Platinum:65 hours
Platinum2:60 hours
SS:60 hours
Diamond:550 hours
Fire red:10 (yeah i know slacker)
emerald: 40 hours.

My pokewalker sits next to my glasses as the second thing I put on in the morning.

Not so much for the story line aspects of it. The competitive and multiplayer aspect is just sooo good. Are you familiar with serebii, or smogon?

Can't say I am familiar.

Like you, My Pokewalker is pretty much one of my daily essentials. Nintendo really did make that little gadget pretty darn addictive, didn't they?

Maybe that's the reason why we still like Pokemon, it's a far more involving game as compared to the standard JRPG. Not in the story sense, mind you (though having a thin story like this might actually work in Pokemon's favor), but in terms of interaction. You constantly interact with your little monsters via your 'walker, and you always have the option to interact with other people playing the game, in multiple ways, too. That's the ticket, then, interactivity and player involvment! Youmight not have the immersion of Western RPGs/CRPGs, but at least you're getting a similar livel of involvment (and, therefore, fun) in the game.

Hmm... Yahtzee mentioned the Mother 3 Fan Translation... wonder what he thought of it... I'm still on one of the last chapters.

I Hate JRPG's

I have tried and just cannot make myself like them - even the ones listed by Yahtzee here.

Hardly worldshaking, I know. But those are my 2 cents.

Let it not be said that Yahtzee doesn't like good quality games just because they happen to be a JRPG.

Chrono Trigger's the bomb.

I haven't played Earthbound, which makes me feel like I should hand over my secret gamer decoder ring, but I know there's a SNES emulator out there and sooner or later, I'll mark that off of the list.

Just a request Yahtzee: when the inevitable Yahtzee-like review of your book appears on the internets, please post a link here because you're the only website I go to ever (gush gush gush).

I pretty much disagree on FF13. Yes, the fact that the game doesn't get good until several hours in is certainly not a point in its favor, but there are some people who can put up with that, Yahtzee is clearly not one of them.

But Mogworld looks AWESOME.

I find it actually kind of funny to see people come to judgement of his work as if their word is somehow meaningful, not to be insulting. But he is indeed a different style of gamer he plays to review and get it done, I'd trust his 5 hours of gameplay on this one game is enough for him to call whether it is indeed time worthy or not. Furthermore I will never wait 15 hours for a game to get "good" and I use good loosely because really does it get better? okay story develops, characters are more than just boobs with swords and pissy attitudes but either way If I want good story I could in fact turn to Chrono trigger a much better game. If I want flashy cut scenes and "Good" story I'll watch the movie Metal Gear Solid 4

Man, I think I'm in the minority for enjoying turn based games.
Maybe i should take up subuteo [sp] or chess

VGFreak1225:
I can respect that.

By the way, if you never did finish Chrono Trigger Yahtzee, you should try the DS remake. I know that that you hate remakes, but the New Game + mode makes it much faster to tackle the bosses for subsequent runs and to get the other endings, even if you still need to finish them the traditional way the first time.

New Game + already existed in the SNES version.

I respect his point of view, and I myself am not a huge JRPG fan to argue with him.

Although he is right about how a lot of JRPGs are being very obnoxious with their story telling style and characters.

But why didn't he mention Pokemon? WE MUST KNOW HIS OPINIONS ON IT!!11!!!one!

dreadedcandiru99:
Personally, I gave up on FF13 just as I got to Pulse (you know, the "BUT IT GETS GOOD TWENTY HOURS IN!!1!" part that the fanboys keep bellowing about). Besides the fact that I'd had an increasingly difficult time giving a crap about any of the characters already, I realized that the ending would probably come along after I was done doing whatever the game wanted me to do in its one and only non-hallway section, that FF games tend to have massive difficulty spikes at the end, and that to have any hope of winning, I was probably going to have to start grinding here--and I hate goddamned grinding. So yeah, one day I went to turn the game back on, and I realized that I just didn't want to.

Also, even twenty hours in, I still wasn't completely sure what the fuck the story was about, and no, I wasn't interested in reading the mountain of crap in the "datalog" to find out. Yes, the Mass Effect games have the same thing, but at least they don't force you to read it in order to know what's going on. I never had to; everything I needed to know about the story was actually included in the story.

I like the it gets good 20 hours in because they are admiting that the first 20 hours are complete crap.

Holy Batshit, Batman...I just felt the last decade of arguing with morons come rushing back into my brain. A feeling akin to getting beaned in the head with the Death Star. Before I make this statement, let me say I love Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger. They are awesome games in every sense of the word, that I've always counted amongst my favorites. But to practically tag JRPG excellence to games that are either played exclusively on Nintendo systems or made by Nintendo is probably the most ignorant thing I've ever heard in my life. It's like saying the greatest pizza in the world is made by Pizza Hut.

Yahtzee reasoning isn't even logical. I don't like JRPGs because the story is too complex? This is coming from someone who counts Douglas Adams as an influence? There's nothing any more accessible about the stories from CT or FFVI as to any other title in the series. Yahtzee might figure that out if he'd play the games for more than 30 minutes before quitting that all the stories are deep and fulfilling. I'm also not at all surprised that he loves The Joker Kefka. Kefka having absolutely no motivation makes him a poor villain in my book. One that I can't relate to, or possibly care about. Of course, Kefka acts like a stereotypical playground bully, so I can see why Yahtzee would like him.

But the big problem, once again, is Croshaw's insistence on invalidating anyone's ability to like Final Fantasy on it's own merits and angering people for his own amusement, while setting himself up as some sort of god. Who's opinion is of divine precedence and is supposedly infallible in every way. And that those blasphemers who dare defy such word will be forever marked as fanboys and persecuted to the end of their days, unless they repent and buy his lame ass novel.

Croshaw, you are a hack. You will always be a hack. And the sad part of all of this is that people are giving you money for this kind of lowbrow chicanery. The people I feel sorry for are the ones who blindly follow him like rats out of Hamlin. Wise up guys, make your own opinions. Don't just hop onto someone else's bandwagon. For all you know, it could be heading off a cliff.

I've liked everything else Yahtzee has done, including all his own games made with AGS. This is the first thing where I haven't agreed at all with what he is saying.

As he has been told and conceded to in his video you do 'play' the game after about 20 hours in. Sitting through all of the pure convoluted (until you hit a certain moment where you realize why they did it the way they did) story for 20 hours was too much for him, so everything he says is basically his impression of a tutorial/story section that went on for too long.

Now, the game may have played better if they hadn't done that, but they were trying to take this one idea and make the story as good as they possibly could, and if you can stand it (I had to stop every 5 hours for the first 10, at around 12 hours I think I finally caught on) they do succeed.

Still, best villain ever is Tall Man, and I did get more enjoyment out of Trilby's Notes than FFXIII, but this isn't as terrible a game as you make it out to be.

Not that I really care, but I'm inclined to ask what the other top whatevers for the gamecube are for you. Eternal Darkness? Metroid Prime? Barbie Horse Adventures, for the sheer number of times you've mentioned it?

I like JRPGs, some of my favourite games are JRPGs, but if you asked me why I really couldn't give an accurate answer, same as if you asked me why I like bacon, I could tell you it tastes nice, I couldn't tell you why. FF6 was probably the best of the bunch, and now I'm going to try and save some money to buy a certain book ;) Keep speaking your mind, or I will come and take it away from you until you can treat it right.

Suskie:

PedroSteckecilo:

Suskie:

Yahtzee Croshaw:
For the lion's share of the game the only real input the player has is during battles (and even that's a loose and uninvolving input)

And how exactly would you know what the "lion's share" of a 40-hour game consists of when you've only seen the first five? I wasn't a big fan of the game either, but I at least finished it before I started making claims like that. At last contextualize it like you did in the video.

To be fair to Yahtzee, if a game isn't interesting by it's 4th Hour, it IS wasting time and as good as FFXIII gets around hour 15, that's still 15 hours of SLOG that you have to get through. It's bad storytelling and it's bad game design.

I agree to an extent, even if it's a game that requires an enormous overall time commitment. I think what bothered me was the way he phrased it. Realistically, he has no idea what the "lion's share" of the game consists of.

That's the funny thing about you guys saying he hasn't played it in full - his opinion is still shared by tons of people who DID play it in full... so really, does it matter?

You don't need to push the needle all the way in to know that it hurts.

I still say Yahtzee needs to try some of the less overblown JRPGs. Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey is a good candidate for that review, and I'd be curious to see what he thinks of the Pokemon series.

I kind of feel the same way about the Final Fantasy series as a whole. While I certainly liked FF7 due to its ability to make a villain actually be fear-inducing just from a specific piece of music playing and the fact that I actually somewhat gave a damn about some of the characters and their ugly 3d models, it was somewhat of a signifying of the downturn of the series. FFXII gave me a hell of a lot of hope since it decided to go in the opposite direction of all the other games (if it wasn't for executive meddling it wouldn't even have you walking around as the pointless bishonen kid), but it seems like Square wants to go back to their pattern of not really trying to make a good game, but a fan-jerk.

part of me wants yahtzee to review Final Fantasy XI, bad or good, just would like to know opinions because it doesnt generally follow the same kind of formula that the regular FF's do, you start as pretty much joe shmoe and then get thrown into an adventure. yeah its an mmo and takes a long time to get anywhere but would still be interesting hearing some thoughts :P

good show though yahtzee! ive personally vowed to never buy consoles again and just buy games on steam and upgrade my computer, but what bugs me more a about the new final fantasies (7 and beyond except 11) is that the Main characters are WAY TO FREAKING WHINY but i like the battle systems they come out with and i still hold by my judgement that Final Fantasy XI and XIV are pretty different from the single player series.

My issue isn't so much with the RPG aspect, more the J aspect.

Caiti Voltaire:
That's one of the problems with JRPGs. When your characters know more than you do and they seem to be going down a linear path regardless of what you do, well it just seems like your watching cinema where you occasionally have to mash buttons to progress through a scene transistion.

Which is better than the "your character seems to have no background whatsoever and has been born into existence at ripe adventuring age and is somehow the chosen one by the king/god to save the world but said person not going to tell you how because odds are something that you could do with that information could end the game within the first five minutes if you'd just happened to kill/take/use someone/something you happen to be right next to at the very start" or the "choose your own background from one of these three stereotypes" game mechanics.

Give me a protagonist with a rich history over a blank/faceless/nameless slate any day. The way I see it, jRPG's tell you a story, wRPG's trick you into thinking there's a story to be told in the first place, but it's actually just a start point and some sort of end point with a bunch of running around doing things that logically would facilitate the antagonists victory if for nothing than time progression alone.

"Hey look, we made a seemingly persistent world where you can run around and do a whole bunch of stuff that is unrelated to your reason for existence. Don't you feel in control? Don't you feel like a real person? Don't you feel free? Awesome... wait... what? You want a cohesive storyline with rich character development and intriguing plot twists? What do you think this is, Japan?"

Freedom is inversely proportional to narrative and always will be until someone can come along and reinvent the way our neural synapses process information. It's just the reality... either you want a story or you want to run around in a virtual "outside" and play with things. You will always sacrifice freedom for narrative and vice versa.

Knights of the Old Republic is linear... Mass Effect is linear. Sure you might be able to visit some different pre-determined plot progression points in the order of your choosing... but regardless, it's linear in story. You could do the same choose your own order of progressing the plot in games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI, but the games are linear. Yes, the characters around you know more than you because they are not you... nor should they be.

When did people assume that "Role Playing Game" meant "You, Mr./Ms. player, are the hero." To me it always meant you were playing the "role" of a character in a predetermined story, as if you were playing the part of the character in a play, but a play that you were also watching at the same time.

EDIT: ... and it's entirely frightening to me that Yahtzee picked my absolute three favorite RPG's as his example of the genre done right. We agree on something... *checks outside for further signs of the apocalypse*

I think Mario RPG, Paper Mario and Mother 3 would appear in my atleast top 15 games

Suskie:

Yahtzee Croshaw:
For the lion's share of the game the only real input the player has is during battles (and even that's a loose and uninvolving input)

And how exactly would you know what the "lion's share" of a 40-hour game consists of when you've only seen the first five? I wasn't a big fan of the game either, but I at least finished it before I started making claims like that. At last contextualize it like you did in the video.

I got up to hour 15 (chapter 7 i think) and still couldnt control my party i searched the net to see what I was missing. When I found out I had 3-4 more chapters of this nonsens i traded it in. Ill get back to it when i have time to waste. And I love FFs. Possibly the most dissapointing gaming experience for me ever.

Watching my friend play FF13 was excruciating, so was watching him play Dragon Age: Origins for that matter. We pretty much made fun of the games as he played them until he gave up and started drinking.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here