Go Back To WoW

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Mr. Mike:

Eric The Orange, are you content now?

For now perhaps.

But all I was trying to say is that this article was not about WoW, or going back to it. And in your initial post that was what you were talking about. And thus had nothing to do with the article.

Random Bobcat:
It isn't unique to games.

When I was younger, I was part of the "BMXers are fags", being a skateboarder then (and now without the borderline xenophobia).

It's basic human nature, an unsure mind can genreate false security by degrading the validity (perceived or otherwise) of any competing articles.

QED - 360 vs PS3, MW2 vs BF:BC2, ad infinitum. Justify and falsely strengthen your "corner" by mudslinging. Applicable to every single instance where there is two opposing forces.

I was on the other side of that argument, skaters hated us BMX'ers so we'd hate back on them.

Next time I look at an MMO to play I'll be using this method to see if its any good - its seems fairly accurate given my experience.

TOGSolid:

Sonic Doctor:
Some people play the game for story, but they can't complete it because the game forces them to interact with other players.

Kinda defeats the entire point of the genre doesn't it? That's like playing first person shooters but not actually attacking anything because you're a pacifist.

They do make RPGs that involve 0 interaction with other players yanno.

The problem is is that when a game is super popular a lot of players will go and try something else and bitch when it's not similar to their favorite game. I.e. Cod 4 morons going to play Bad Company 2 and then whining about all the stuff that isn't like COD, or WoW players expecting Eve Online to lead them along a very set and narrow path just because they're incapable of thinking outside the box.

Some criticisms are valid, but often times they're not. It's important to be able to separate the few good points from the retarded ramblings of the masses.

First off, cool down with the attitude.

Having been born in 1985, I have been around for most of the development of the gaming world. I started gaming when I was four, at least that is as far back as I remember. As I saw from your profile you are a couple years older, so you wouldn't know much more about the evolution of gaming.

Your whole comparison comment on how my point defeats the purpose of the genre is wrong. MMORPG is not a genre it is a subset of RPG which is a genre. At heart, MMORPGs are RPGs first, if you removed the RPG you would be left with something that is not a game, basically a chatbox.

Of course I know that there are single player RPGs, but can't you think of any that have worlds that are as vast and open as MMORPGs. I would say that the ones that come closest are Oblivion and Fallout 3, but even their worlds are dwarfed in size compared to most MMORPGs.
My point was that MMORPGs have vast and bigger worlds, and usually have richer and longer story-lines compared to single player RPGs.

Players that want to experience that without dealing with people, shouldn't have to suffer through trying to find one good team member out of the majority of greedy, usually awful players. It usually takes me a week or more to find one person that will team up without any catch or strings attached, all the other people always want something or log off or drop out in the middle of a quest. Most ask for items I don't have or amounts of gold that would take months to acquire, which of course I don't have. When I help people I don't ask for anything. I have helped a couple people when playing LotRO, mainly because I saw they were lower level than me and wanted me to lead or run them through some place like a goblin camp to complete a quest. I helped them, they said thank you, and I said your welcome, then we parted ways and never saw or interacted with each other again.

My complaint is one grounded in what the gaming companies have to understand to make more money and survive. In the gaming world today games are and rightfully so, expected to have both single player and multiplayer, or some kind of co-op in the single player mode. It's not hard to see that a majority of the world's game players play or have played multiplayer games, but I would guarantee that a majority of the world's gamers are at heart, more partial to single player games.

Yes MMORPGs are mostly made to cater to people that want to interact with other people, but I would say that the MM of MMO can also stand not just for multiple people playing with each other but also that multiple people are playing the same game. Now some MMOs creators have finally gotten the correct mindset and have started to tool some main story team quests so that people can choose to play solo, but they haven't gone far enough. It would be very smart financially, for a company to add a solo choice for all main story quests. If they did that, the company would most likely double their player base and gain twice as much money as they have been making. If I was the head of a game company I would do that with my MMORPG because it is a commonsense kind of move, because game companies of course want more people to play and more money.

I seriously don't see why the core MMO players get up in arms about people that want a single player aspect added to those games. Making a choice for players to be able to play the main story quests solo, would damage absolutely nothing for the players that want to play in groups. It feels like those core MMO players act like they are in some kind of exclusive club where they only allow certain people to join with them; the mentality feels like they are saying this, "If you don't roll with us, then you don't get to experience the game and find out how the story ends." It is childish.

Mr. Mike:

Eric the Orange:
Perhaps you should try reading the article instead of responding to the title.

Perhaps I did read the article, but this is just the thoughts I had on it all so I expressed that. If you want me to address the topic more, I shall.

The whole notion of WoW being that standard for noobs (like how people view COD or Halo) is preposterous. Sure, they might not be my cup of tea, but I appreciate the fact they are very easy to pick up and play and allow the player to get a sense of satisfaction quickly and feel comfortable with the game. Make a game TOO miche or hardcore and only the most dedicated of fans will stick with it to learn its intricacies. Games like WoW are very polished, and if nothing else, act as a very good starting point for a player to take their first steps into the genre of the game. Go back to WoW... sometimes it's good to go back to a genre's roots, no?

Eric The Orange, are you content now?

Same here. Got to it first before i could make a nice speech. Oh what the hell, here goes.

I played WoW and i will admit that there are a lot of great people there as with any MMO. The reason i will never go back to it (or any MMO for that matter as of yet) is that it feels like playing anything on X-Box live. Everyone is a dick. It doesn't matter if your new and don't get everything or if you just don't know a certain area well. People in MMOs are, for the most part, dicks. So for me complaining about one MMO and being told to "Go back to WoW" doing that wouldn't solve my complaints of over-dicked areas. And that is why i won't go back to WoW or any other dick-filled MMO.

(Please don't put me on probation for this, my use of the word "dick" was needed here)

*gets little girl with big puppy-dog eyes to look at moderator* (Please?)

Unfortunately I can't play WoW since when I tried my computer forced a shutdown. The game looks awesome but my comp is not compatible with it unfortunately.

Aion only had 15 because everyone went back to WoW...

Mypetmonkey:
Aion only had 15 because everyone went back to WoW...

vary vary true...

This is frequently said in the forums of pretty much every MMO game out there. (Except for World of Warcraft, of course.) Usually someone will complain about the game or make a suggestion about how the game could be improved, at which point the fanboys will show up and tell them to go to WoW. This is usually intended as a two-edged insult against both the critic and against WoW itself. Roughly, "The thing you want is stupid and you are stupid so you will like WoW, because it is also stupid."

Well Shamus, I'm glad to say that you haven't done the proper research then.
I'm sure that many use it as an insult but in my experiance, these kind of people usually whine about MMOX for not BEING the same as WoW so the suggestions they give is to WoWify the game instead.

Therefore, the sentence "Go back to WoW" is justified because the suggestioneer wants to WoWify the game instead of going back to WoW.

theklng:

Ciler:

theklng:
the reason that there is such a stigma tied to world of warcraft is because it is by far the most casual of all MMOs. that is not to say that you cannot be 'hardcore' (or whatever the opposite of casual may be), there are just tools set in place for you not to be just that.

personally i don't think there's anything worthwhile in world of warcraft; to me it is a testament how a game can become an excellent product, while at the same time being an awfully mediocre game (based on game elements and mechanics in comparison with other MMOs before and after the original release of world of warcraft in 2004).

Maybe the new one should be "Go back to Farmville"... that's even more casual-friendly than WoW (not to mention being an awfully mediocre game).

farmville is not in the same genre and will by most not even be considered a 'real' game. not to mention it is much less known than world of warcraft.

Hence the greater insult.

Actually, the expression isn't merely an insult to critic and Warcraft. It's also an exacerbated sigh in the direction of WoW fanboys trashing a game because they believe that Warcraft is significantly better. If a person in a chat were to offer friendly advice on how the game could be improved, or features he or she would like to see included, that is fine. But if that same person were to continuously spam the local chat or forums "this game suck, it's not as good as WoW. I'm playing this game just to show you how bad it is compared to WoW, MAN this game sucks!", etc... Then, I believe "go back to WoW" is a justified and appropriate response.

If a person logs into a game just to trash it instead of playing their beloved Warcraft, why do they not simply stop playing the game and spend that time actually playing Warcraft? It doesn't make sense.

He lives on Endor. Now why would a 7' Wookee live on a planet with a bunch of little 3' Ewoks? It doesn't make sense. Why the heck am i talking about Chewbacca when the topic is World of Warcraft? It doesn't make sense. Thank you, I rest my case. (cookie to whoever gets the reference)
EDIT:
Also, what of those Warcraft players who didn't like the other game(s) and instead of starting a flamewar, posted on the forums: "I'm going to go back to WoW"? A cursory text search would have included those otherwise normal people NOT using it as an insult.

hmm never thought of it that way. Though the only ones i dont like are the ones that go into world chat bitching about the game and comparing to wow. those ppl need to stop it. However anyone with a legitimate complaint i tend to agree or ignore. XD

Zerbye:
Fanboys in other fields? In science, you can definitely have fanboys like you see in System Wars. Are you into single-cell electrophysiology or functional brain imaging? Are you into math or physics? Psychologists vs. physiologists? I've met all types that "know" that they are better than their nemesis.

You should hear the Physicists vs Engineers vs Mathematicians debates... and how we can all laugh at the English majors. lol! (kidding!)

I see this so often on the EVE Online forums. EVE fanboys belong to the worst kind of fanboy. On one hand they complain about every single aspect of the game, on the other hand they loathe anyone who dares criticize the game. Fortunately they are only a minority; most EVE players are understanding enough to realize that other people simply prefer other games. I am an EVE player, and although I don't really like WoW, I understand why there are people who play it. It's just that I'm not among them.

I should also say I'm an avid Guild Wars player. Guild Wars fanboys are the same: 'GB2WoW'.

Ciler:

theklng:

Ciler:

theklng:
the reason that there is such a stigma tied to world of warcraft is because it is by far the most casual of all MMOs. that is not to say that you cannot be 'hardcore' (or whatever the opposite of casual may be), there are just tools set in place for you not to be just that.

personally i don't think there's anything worthwhile in world of warcraft; to me it is a testament how a game can become an excellent product, while at the same time being an awfully mediocre game (based on game elements and mechanics in comparison with other MMOs before and after the original release of world of warcraft in 2004).

Maybe the new one should be "Go back to Farmville"... that's even more casual-friendly than WoW (not to mention being an awfully mediocre game).

farmville is not in the same genre and will by most not even be considered a 'real' game. not to mention it is much less known than world of warcraft.

Hence the greater insult.

no, you don't understand. it's not an insult anymore because it's not related. it's not a lesser version of any of the other games in the genre, and as such it's not an insult at all. it's like having cut and uncut diamonds then suddenly referring to rubies. you're more prone to people not understanding your insult at this point, and that really negates any power your insult may have. you should take a look into rhetorics.

Sonic Doctor:

I agree with you on the whole storage thing. That's been a huge problem people like me have in WoW, and when we ask blizzard for more bag slots in the bank, they say "We'll give you bags with 2 more slots in them." when we really need about 10 more bags to store the billions of things we get from holiday events and other world events.

On your thing about single player, I encourage you to look into Star Wars the Old Republic when it comes out. It has been designed to be played almost entirely alone, or with one or 2 friends if you have them. Only the end game content(which no one knows anything about yet) will have multi-player requirements. The rest of the game can be done by yourself. You should probably look into it.

Zerbye:
Fanboys in other fields? In science, you can definitely have fanboys like you see in System Wars. Are you into single-cell electrophysiology or functional brain imaging? Are you into math or physics? Psychologists vs. physiologists? I've met all types that "know" that they are better than their nemesis.

I had a chemistry teacher once that absolutely hated psychology. She would argue all day that it's not a real science.

All I really have to say on this is that in my experience most skiers and snowboarders DO hate each other as much as the average PS3/Xbox fanboy hates each other.

theklng:

farmville is not in the same genre and will by most not even be considered a 'real' game. not to mention it is much less known than world of warcraft.

I'd say farmville ticks all the boxes of a 'real' game, and also on your saying it is much less known, it has over 82 million monthly active users worldwide whereas WoW has something over 11 million.

Which means that there are more people who work on a farmville farm than literally work in the USA.

Dudemeister:
Coming on here, talking all over our Escapist. Go back to IGN!

As an actual WoW player, if I was told to go back to WoW, I probably would go back to WoW :3

what would you be doing anywhere else but WoW as a WoW player?

anyway i've hardly seen that phrase but then the only paid mmo's i've played were aion/CO and STO

Thing is that in real life if you call someone faggot because you like different colour than him things might get ugly. When you are child you dont mind that. As an adult (or even teen) in real life you will find (easy way or hard way) that "ignore" button doesn´t exist and insulting people over trivial matter can get you more problems than the isnult is worth (contrary to online things where you get flaming posts on forums and occasional whispers, max 3 day ban) :)

Nice article btw.

Jonathan Wingo:

Sonic Doctor:

I agree with you on the whole storage thing. That's been a huge problem people like me have in WoW, and when we ask blizzard for more bag slots in the bank, they say "We'll give you bags with 2 more slots in them." when we really need about 10 more bags to store the billions of things we get from holiday events and other world events.

On your thing about single player, I encourage you to look into Star Wars the Old Republic when it comes out. It has been designed to be played almost entirely alone, or with one or 2 friends if you have them. Only the end game content(which no one knows anything about yet) will have multi-player requirements. The rest of the game can be done by yourself. You should probably look into it.

I actually have been looking at Star Wars the Old Republic. I can't wait to see how it turns out. I am a big fan of the KOTOR games. The first one was awesome, and the second one incredibly improved the customization and item upgradablity. The second one would have ranked higher in my book, except that I felt they the creators really botched the ending. I would have told them, "A little less talky talky and a lot more action packed graphical scenes to show things." The first one had classic Star Wars action packed endings.

Dunno about you, but I'd say prejudice by fanboys towards gender, sexuality and race would drive me up the wall greater than telling someone to play a different game.

Zemalac:

Shamus Young:

Do skiers and snow boarders hate each other with the same fervor as Xbox and PS3 fans?

Yes. Possibly more so.

Goddamn skiers, taking up the entire frickin' slope. If you're going to go back and forth like that, at least let people pass you instead of cutting in front of them...RANT

Fantards really are everywhere.
You have not seen fan boys until you get a bunch of arse holes who all do different martial arts in the same room.

This "works", thats "not practical", such and such is "just a sport"...

Having said that these people tend to be the ones who've been doing it for 2 months and are over weight. Yes, we know, its all muscle... If you train for any length of time you take the bits of everything that work for you and throw out the rest. It's more important how you train and who with than what "style".

Similar to gaming really. Play the genres and games you like and don't bother with games you don't. All that matters is that everyones having fun. Easy.

oi! Shamus! Your figures prove nothing!

Go take your figures, find out the MMO's player population at that moment in time and find it as a percentage!

You will not blind me with these factless numbers!

John Funk:
Go back to WoW? Don't mind if I do.

Same response from me.

As for the actual article, no need to get your panties in a bunch if someone says go back to WoW. In many areas, its a far superior game compared to many other MMOs. I don't see how it is an insult to WoW itself though. Its saying that WoW does it better, and why bother playing that other crappy MMO? Not really understanding the logic behind this one.

You really came off as a professional troll in this one to be honest.

NeutralDrow:
I'm going to totally misinterpret the fact that City of Heroes wasn't in that list and say it's because the community is awesome as a whole and not only accepts criticism, it offers it constantly (not only that, but last I was there, the devs went out of their way to respond to and thank critique). But that's off-topic and possibly nostalgic.

Then again, since I'm also a WoW player (albeit one who never graces the forums), I have to admit never having run into this, but the article conclusion sounds logical.

Also pretty likely the City of Heroes figures don't support his argument, so he left them out.

The most disturbing thing is that you didn't even search the biggest fansites of those games. For example, the game Aion is fervently discussed on the site "Aion Source" as much if not more than the official Aion forums. Same can be said of similar MMO fansites on your list, all the way down to random obscure websites that discuss gaming in general, rather than the MMO genre in particular.

I too am fed up with the saying. I played WoW for 3 years, but I also played many other MMO's as well such as L2, EQ1, AoC, Aion, LotR, UO, and various other obscure MMO's and MUD's that the vast majority of players have never even heard of.

People seem to think that certain ideas and mechanics originated in WoW, just because they are found in WoW. The people that are suggesting similar ideas could've experienced that feature in a game that predates WoW and was actually borrowed from that game, yet they immediately relate it to WoW.

It's just a sad state that we MMO fans find ourselves in right now.

digotw:

NeutralDrow:
I'm going to totally misinterpret the fact that City of Heroes wasn't in that list and say it's because the community is awesome as a whole and not only accepts criticism, it offers it constantly (not only that, but last I was there, the devs went out of their way to respond to and thank critique). But that's off-topic and possibly nostalgic.

Then again, since I'm also a WoW player (albeit one who never graces the forums), I have to admit never having run into this, but the article conclusion sounds logical.

Also pretty likely the City of Heroes figures don't support his argument, so he left them out.

...that was more-or-less exactly what I said.

I don't knjow about forum posts, but I think some of this comes from a reverse--and very weird!--issue that strikes me as "fanbois trolling in other games." Poor old Tabula Rasa had been out a few weeks when its general chat was effectively spam-killed by a handful of guys who spent their time bitching about every tiny issue and how it was either just like WoW or not enough like WoW. It was primarly aimed at trolling to get players who had, say, just bought and wanted to enjoy the game without reading a constant barrage of WoW love/Tab Ra hate going, and it certainly did that...I could only solve the issue by turning off general chat. So from that perspective, where many of the capitulations to the trolls were, in fact, "go back to WoW please," I can understand the problem.

Honestly, as a looooong time WoW player who feels that game has some playstyle and genre defining highlights that will affect the industry forever more, I can respect the problem people seem to run in to while playing other "less popular" MMOs in which a WoW fanboi comes onboard and basically starts trashing the game. I don't understand why they do it, other than for some malicious fun. These days, though, I am happy to say that I don't see any of that in DDO, the only other MMO I frequent anymore.

As for forum posts....well, I don't really like to hang out on forums much anymore except for Escapist....!!!! So I must plead ignorance on the matter, except that my guess has always been that the forum posters on MMO sites always seem to be disgruntled or have a chip on their shoulder for some reason....makes for terribly uninteresting reading, either way....

Go back to Dungeons and Dragons.

Wait wut

If you ever see "(insert latest blockbuster game here) Is SOOOOOO much better than (insert latest challenger to latest blockbuster here)" feel free to scream at the idiot until he goes back to (insert latest blockbuster game here).

I tried that for the "Runes of Magic" forum & got 196 "Go back to Wow." I guess the low count is because WoW & RoM are supposed to be very similar.

Yeah I have seen this, and its mostly in discussions where the person that utter the words have no better argument for why a change isn't good.

I myself have played a lot of MMOs, ot indirectly played them through my flat-mates, and my view on MMOs is that WoW is of a better quality than most other MMOs out there. So once you say "go back to WoW" you are saying "My game sucks, so you should probably play the better game WoW. I dont like wow myself, but I bet you would."

Sure no fanboy would admitt their game sucks, but by saying "go back to WoW" you are basically stating that WoW is better than your game.

Sure its easy to hate the market leader, but usually they became big because they were doing things right. *Is reminded of the South Park episode about Hardbucks Coffee*

So when MMOs are released that have less quality than what WoW had at release, you are bound to get some people disapointed.

It should probably be noted that if you use the same search criteria you used, but swap out the site with this one (as in: "go back to wow" site:http://www.escapistmagazine.com), you actually get 1,670 hits. So no, I don't think its a very accurate description on how often it is used

Sonic Doctor:

w00tage:

Sonic Doctor:
I guess it is because the bright colors or the cartoon feel I get from it, but I couldn't get into WoW. I am a fan of LotRO, yes it has color but if feels rather toned down compared to WoW, and that is what I like about it. Also, comparing with WoW and what I have heard other people explain about other MMOs, LotRO has a lot more storage for items than any other. I heard from People playing other MMOs that players get 30 on person storage to to start out. LotRO of course starts people off with 5 packs with 15 slots each, and then you get a vault in large towns that store 30 and you can buy more vault space as you level up. Also when you buy a house you get a storage container with it too. So I have well over 100 slots to store stuff, though I'm a pack rat and still run out of space.

If you like storage space, try EQ2. You fill inventory, bank and chest slots with boxes and bags, the largest of which holds 38? items. So you can be carting around hundreds of items on your person and have thousands total.

I'll think about it, but I really don't have the time anymore or the money to try new games. If there is a free-trial I guess I could check it out. But since I've put so much work into LotRO, I think I will stick with it for now.

No worries, enjoy LOTRO :)

Zemalac:

Shamus Young:

Do skiers and snow boarders hate each other with the same fervor as Xbox and PS3 fans?

Yes. Possibly more so.

Goddamn skiers, taking up the entire frickin' slope. If you're going to go back and forth like that, at least let people pass you instead of cutting in front of them...RANT

Kinda funny remark given that skiers are FASTER because of the reduced friction to the snow because of the (usually) reduced surface area of the skis in comparison to snowboards.

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