Zero Punctuation: Splinter Cell: Conviction

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Doomsday11:
that was great the jabs at America were quite true why would you want to take over america if your not american?

Being an evil genius with plans for world domination, controlling the country with the world's larges GDP, with a state that taken alone has the fourth largest GDP in the world, coupled with an arsenal of nuclear weapons that are more than sufficient to nuke the entire surface of the planet several times over might be the reason.

But I digress, video game bad guy logic has almost always evaded me.

Frederick II:

Doomsday11:
that was great the jabs at America were quite true why would you want to take over america if your not american?

Being an evil genius with plans for world domination, controlling the country with the world's larges GDP, with a state, that taken alone has the fourth largest GDP in the world, coupled with an arsenal of nuclear weapons that are more than sufficient to nuke the entire surface of the planet several times over might be the reason.

But I digress, video game bad guy logic has almost always evaded me.

But surely if you want size or easy access to weapons and/or nukes why not take russia instead?
Also if your taking over the world who cares about money I personally plan to run a communist utopia when my death ray comes online.

Shamanic Rhythm:
I'm going to stand by my first comment. If you actually feel insulted by this joke, you need to learn to laugh at yourself. And I dispute the claim that it's 'old hat'. It's topical humour, what with all the malarky surrounding the introduction of free health care.

If you would humor me, and if Yahtzee is reading this you as well, how much do you know about the proposed health care bill? Having several family members in the medical care sector, I have gotten a number of mixed, well informed opinions. Not to sound patronizing, but how much research have you done? If it is a fair degree, I am more than happy to debate the finer points of the proposed bill in a slightly less public setting; a private message maybe.

Further, the humor is supposed to be topical, but its just that... It's not funny. It isn't insulting, or insightful, or anything... it's bitching about something. Bitching isn't funny; if I want to hear bitching, I can call up my grandmother. If you have seen the Modern Warfare review, I was laughing at the interjection about the US Armed Forces. It was really funny. This wasn't; for a game critic whose main method of criticism is humor, not being funny is a pretty fatal flaw, in the same way that a horror game not being scary is a pretty fatal flaw.

Doomsday11:

But surely if you want size or easy access to weapons and/or nukes why not take russia instead?
Also if your taking over the world who cares about money I personally plan to run a communist utopia when my death ray comes online.

The problem with Russia is finding the fucking things; in America it's easy, they have all been stockpiled in undesirable locations in the Midwest, hell, with the assistance of Google maps you could probably find the military bases for nearly two thirds of them. However, the second point I must concede, a death ray is truly the only superweapon befitting an evil genius, though in a communist utopia, you the conquer would have the same net worth and power as a street urchin.

Frederick II:
If you would humor me, and if Yahtzee is reading this you as well, how much do you know about the proposed health care bill? Having several family members in the medical care sector, I have gotten a number of mixed, well informed opinions. Not to sound patronizing, but how much research have you done? If it is a fair degree, I am more than happy to debate the finer points of the proposed bill in a slightly less public setting; a private message maybe.

Further, the humor is supposed to be topical, but its just that... It's not funny. It isn't insulting, or insightful, or anything... it's bitching about something. Bitching isn't funny; if I want to hear bitching, I can call up my grandmother. If you have seen the Modern Warfare review, I was laughing at the interjection about the US Armed Forces. It was really funny. This wasn't; for a game critic whose main method of criticism is humor, not being funny is a pretty fatal flaw, in the same way that a horror game not being scary is a pretty fatal flaw.

Now you're just throwing up smokescreens. It doesn't matter how much I know or don't know about the health care bill itself: I'm not interested in debating its merits. The premise that this joke revolves around is the hyperbolic reaction by some elements of the American public and political spectrum who equate free health care with a gradual slide towards socialism - which has been well documented by media abroad, I can assure you. I still have the newspaper articles laying around because I get a good chuckle out of them.

Shamanic Rhythm:

Now you're just throwing up smokescreens. It doesn't matter how much I know or don't know about the health care bill itself: I'm not interested in debating its merits. The premise that this joke revolves around is the hyperbolic reaction by some elements of the American public and political spectrum who equate free health care with a gradual slide towards socialism - which has been well documented by media abroad, I can assure you. I still have the newspaper articles laying around because I get a good chuckle out of them.

I thought I was pretty to the point, the joke is not funny, because it requires an understanding of the situation that I presume, Yahtzee does not have. Exposition may be necessary so as follows:
1) Historically Americans tend to be distrustful of government invasion into the private sector, a fear that has probably been in the American conscience since its founding (Tea Act anyone?)

2) The health care sector comprises over 16% of the US GDP. A really big number that effects a lot of people who are currently making a lot of money and wish to see that trend continue.

That in mind, I find it hard to laugh about this joke because it is about as subtle and as well informed as a sledgehammer blow to the temple. I happen to think that Yahtzee is beyond that, justly or not. Where he shines is when he drops the political pretense bullshit and talks about what makes a game shit, or the monumentally shitty game design decisions, not when he tries to be cute and politically relevant.

Frederick II:
[quote="Shamanic Rhythm" post="6.192737.6110644"]
That in mind, I find it hard to laugh about this joke because it is about as subtle and as well informed as a sledgehammer blow to the temple. I happen to think that Yahtzee is beyond that, justly or not. Where he shines is when he drops the political pretense bullshit and talks about what makes a game shit, or the monumentally shitty game design decisions, not when he tries to be cute and politically relevant.

He only makes one brief joke about it. Furthermore i have happen to have read the American version of MAD magazine and the 2010 first Q1 issue was far more brutal in it's jokes about the healthcare system. Republicans were shouting out insane assumptions when Obama first started on this bill. It has been world news too.

More on topic regarding the review and the game.. i would like to have learned if this splinter cell, is better or worse then it's predecessors?

Funny he mentioned Hitman a couple of times, because that has been my favorite stealth game back in the days i did single player a lot.

BoldBaldBastard:

He only makes one brief joke about it. Furthermore i have happen to have read the American version of MAD magazine and the 2010 first Q1 issue was far more brutal in it's jokes about the healthcare system. Republicans were shouting out insane assumptions when Obama first started on this bill. It has been world news too.

I am getting tired of this. In my humble opinion, the joke was unfunny, unsubtle, insightful, and uninspired. Comparing Yahtzee to MAD is a disservice as that magazine has failed to be funny in over 28 years. You are more than welcome to disagree.

Why is the first, knee jerk response to every opinion "YOUR OPINION IS ALL WRONG, GO TO HELL FOR NOT THINKING EXACTLY AS I DO". I feel that comedy is best served by juxtaposition, pacing, and careful deconstruction reductio ad absurdum style that places and interesting interjection between conclusion one logically draws versus its actual implication.

More plainly, I think it's funny when something you thought to have understood makes no sense when reanalyzed, a la the who's on first sketch by Abbot and Costello.

Very funny Yahtzee, I do love you dearly.

LOL at the stupid Americans not wanting free health care.

Best in a long time I would say. GJ Yahtzee. I realize my approval is something you shoot for.

Frederick II:

Shamanic Rhythm:
I'm going to stand by my first comment. If you actually feel insulted by this joke, you need to learn to laugh at yourself. And I dispute the claim that it's 'old hat'. It's topical humour, what with all the malarky surrounding the introduction of free health care.

If you would humor me, and if Yahtzee is reading this you as well, how much do you know about the proposed health care bill? Having several family members in the medical care sector, I have gotten a number of mixed, well informed opinions. Not to sound patronizing, but how much research have you done? If it is a fair degree, I am more than happy to debate the finer points of the proposed bill in a slightly less public setting; a private message maybe.

Further, the humor is supposed to be topical, but its just that... It's not funny. It isn't insulting, or insightful, or anything... it's bitching about something. Bitching isn't funny; if I want to hear bitching, I can call up my grandmother. If you have seen the Modern Warfare review, I was laughing at the interjection about the US Armed Forces. It was really funny. This wasn't; for a game critic whose main method of criticism is humor, not being funny is a pretty fatal flaw, in the same way that a horror game not being scary is a pretty fatal flaw.

I don't know ... humour is moreso a device. Yahtzee can't be funny all the time ... he created a metaphor. It worked with what he was trying to communicate .. why WOULD you want to take over the US with an 11 trillion dollar deficit, a laughable official cash flow interest rate of 0.25% (which only means the deficit can only get worst, and renders US bonds almost untradeable) and possibly worst healthcare in the developed world (or should I say one of the BEST managed healthcare .... to those that can afford it)?

I don't see Yahtzee as a comedian ... he's a reviewer of games.

He employs humour as a device in order to popularize his projections of what quality gaming should be. Whether or not his input is actually being employed, he should still be seen as akin to an art critic ... or a wine critic, or a book critic.

Certainly the three other types of critics can make fun, but you shouldn't ask them to joke about what they deem important enough to call a job. He was employing a metaphor to try to navigate the logic of why conquering the US is a goal in a number of video games ... such as that other "Tom Clancy" game 'HAWX'.

Depending on what side of the fence you choose to posit yourself in the 'Games are Art' argument, Yahtzee has said for himself he positions himself squarely in the 'Art' side of the argument ... and as such asking him to be jovial all the time would be wrong.

He can't be funny al the time, because he considers games an important modern cultural epithet. Expecting him to make jokes at the expense of his self-esteem as a *critic* of what he would consider to be one of the most important cultural and social avenues of 'artistic expression' in the 21st century would tear ANYBODY up inside .. and even more so for him.

He was making a metaphor trying to navigate deductive reasoning behind one of the bigger cliches in gaming, and finding a way to communicate it concisely, and curtly to those who simply 'watc' but don't 'see' ... not necessarily to always crack wise at his own social value.

Splinter Cell peaked with Chaos Theory. Double Agent had a nice choice system where you could choose if you wanted to work for the bad guys or the good guys but the gameplay wasn't quite as good as CT. Conviction seems to be a step in completely the wrong direction. The plot sounds ridiculous and the game in general is geared towards a much more casual audience. I've actually heard people comparing it to Assassin's Creed which SUCKED ASS. I don't want AC, I want my old SC back. Yeah OK, I can just go and replay the old games. Actually I might go and play Hitman: Blood Money now that Yahtzee's reminded me of it.

Frederick II:
I thought I was pretty to the point, the joke is not funny, because it requires an understanding of the situation that I presume, Yahtzee does not have. Exposition may be necessary so as follows:
1) Historically Americans tend to be distrustful of government invasion into the private sector, a fear that has probably been in the American conscience since its founding (Tea Act anyone?)

2) The health care sector comprises over 16% of the US GDP. A really big number that effects a lot of people who are currently making a lot of money and wish to see that trend continue.

That in mind, I find it hard to laugh about this joke because it is about as subtle and as well informed as a sledgehammer blow to the temple. I happen to think that Yahtzee is beyond that, justly or not. Where he shines is when he drops the political pretense bullshit and talks about what makes a game shit, or the monumentally shitty game design decisions, not when he tries to be cute and politically relevant.

You're right, I'm sorry. The joke is not funny. I'll send you a banana as my personal offering of apology.

Frederick II:

I thought I was pretty to the point, the joke is not funny, because it requires an understanding of the situation that I presume, Yahtzee does not have. Exposition may be necessary so as follows:
1) Historically Americans tend to be distrustful of government invasion into the private sector, a fear that has probably been in the American conscience since its founding (Tea Act anyone?)

2) The health care sector comprises over 16% of the US GDP. A really big number that effects a lot of people who are currently making a lot of money and wish to see that trend continue.

That in mind, I find it hard to laugh about this joke because it is about as subtle and as well informed as a sledgehammer blow to the temple. I happen to think that Yahtzee is beyond that, justly or not. Where he shines is when he drops the political pretense bullshit and talks about what makes a game shit, or the monumentally shitty game design decisions, not when he tries to be cute and politically relevant.

Can I also say that 1: is a joke ... unless Americans live with their heads buried in the ground, they would realize that when it comes to Laissez-faire market strategies (even?) AUSTRALIA is more capitalist-centric than America will *EVER* be.

America practices foreign trade rights, market exclusionism and Anti-trust laws in a fashion that would have made Gorbachev blush.

All in all .. it's kinda funny that China and Japan's respective central banks basically own 10% of all American debt (as Bond holders) .... and yet America turn to Japan and says "sorry ... levees on foreign made cars :P

Equal give and take ... foundation of all good relationships .. .China and Japan bought up US Bonds (and continue to do so despite ridiculous rate of return which won't make them earn a single cent for the next 60 years) ... least you can do is drop tariffs on Japanese car manufacturers, or stop supporting corrupt, faltering motor companies like GM, now can't you?

Given that public debt of the US is 16 trillion, and represents 106.9% of US GDP .... that would mean of the 44% of foreign central banks owning US debt (as lenders, given almost half of America's debt is owed to Foreign organizations) ... that would mean that Japan and China alone literally own more than 10% of your entire country's net worth ... and the rest of the 34% being owned by Australia, England, Germany .... basically the rest of the developed world ...

I KNOW Americans know this....because |I watch American news on occasion ... America knows of US bailouts .... and Americans didn't pillage and burn. In fact most Americans seemed quite blase about the whole thing ...

I also guessed that SCC will be reviewed this week.

Great review nontheless!

Shameful advertising.....I love it. Take that MONTREAL lol. Yeah everything i have heard about this game pretty much sums up exactly what i have heard from here lol.

Josh_V2.0:

DurianBlink:

Josh_V2.0:

A bit defensive are we? Listen, I understand that you can't just go about labeling entire nations as being this or that. I'm not saying that I feel this way about all Americans, it just happens to be the case with many of them. I found Yahtzee's little joke to be a very well presented description of how the rest of the word views the United States, and if that offends you then maybe you should just go have a word with him.

Another thing, was that 'whining like a little bitch' bit really necessary? Because I don't believe I had anything to complain about in my last post.

Yes, we're all morbidly obese cowboy rednecks with room temperature IQs.

If the rest of the world really views us as this, then they really need a reality check. The comment by Yahtzee was a pure rage induced attack, badly covered up as a joke. It's almost like you could feel Yahtzee's teeth grating as he wrote the script.

I just find it a bit douchebaggish of Yahtzee to bite the hand that feeds him.

And according to websiteoutlook.com, this website is viewed 46.7% by Americans, so Yahtzee's little douchebag comments probably won't be winning him that many fans.

I'd like you to go back and read over the boldfaced text. I just want to be sure you actually read my comment before you posted your own.

Also, about that teeth grinding thing, I think that was just you.

I read what you said. But you see the key word here is "many"

I was not grinding my teeth in rage at the comment. I simply sat there and said "Really?" and then proceeded to right click on my Zero Punctuation feed and click delete. The reason I said that was because the attack was so poorly hidden behind a joke, it is obvious Yahtzee feels a lot of resentment towards the U.S.

Great review, the TV-ads for this game were so incredibly annoying that every time I see them now it makes me smile, knowing that it's shitiness has been exposed to the world.

DurianBlink:

I was not grinding my teeth in rage at the comment. I simply sat there and said "Really?" and then proceeded to right click on my Zero Punctuation feed and click delete. The reason I said that was because the attack was so poorly hidden behind a joke, it is obvious Yahtzee feels a lot of resentment towards the U.S.

Well, as a European, I can confirm that the worlds partly sees Americans indeed as morbidly obese cowboy rednecks with room temperature IQs. Ofcourse people know better, but then again, there's this persisting view of the French as chauvinist pigs eating too many croissants.

Just stop taking things so seriously and have a laugh, you'll feel much better for it.

This is why I watch ZP. I like the game a lot, but I can't disagree with anything that Yahtzee said. In fact he pretty much summed up everything I think is wrong with the game. Oh, except for the not being able to see in the dark. He missed that.

I figured Yahtzee wouldn't like this game, primarily because he has only on very rare occasions looked at anything other than the single-player campaign. Conviction's SP campaign is, saying it nicely, not very good. Saying it honestly, it's a steaming pile of sh**. Deniable Ops is better. The Co-op campaign is better.

I particularly like Deniable Ops, and I suspect Yahtzee would, too (more than the single player at least) seeing as how the maps are more open and teeming with more possibilities than the best of the campaign missions.

I liked the review, though, and definitely don't blame him for not looking into the game further. After all, I personally think that any developer that releases a crappy campaign so they can pad in random side missions needs to be smacked.

"the introduction of free health care."

There is no such thing as free healthcare. Somebody has to pay for it.

"Just stop taking things so seriously and have a laugh, you'll feel much better for it."

After hearing crap about america from the age of 16, I'm just tired of it. It's never clever or new. Europeans love beating us over the head about the healthcare thing, because it is the one way in which living in Europe would be at all superior to living in the US. In most of the US, somebody who rides public transportation and lives in an apartment is considered incredibly poor. Even teenagers can scrape enough money together to own a car and share a large (2200 square feet) rental house in many parts of the country.

Yes, US healthcare is one big headache, because we are trying to straddle both a free market system, as well as a nationalized system with huge amounts of cartelization. There is not one party responsible for this, but both. Fixing the US healthcare system isn't going to be an easy task, as most Americans aren't "suffering," so it is hard to get everybody revved up about changing anything, and 80% of Americans are doing just fine healthcare wise, of course they bitch about the price.

Only thing I hated was the "free" healthcare joke because there is no such thing as free healthcare. We can't have the government paying for healthcare because we're trying to cut spending, not add another bill onto our already massive as mount Everest pile. The people are going to have to pay for it themselves until the government can afford to and I don't see that happening within my lifetime.

"America practices foreign trade rights, market exclusionism and Anti-trust laws in a fashion that would have made Gorbachev blush.

All in all .. it's kinda funny that China and Japan's respective central banks basically own 10% of all American debt (as Bond holders) .... and yet America turn to Japan and says "sorry ... levees on foreign made cars :P

Equal give and take ... foundation of all good relationships .. .China and Japan bought up US Bonds (and continue to do so despite ridiculous rate of return which won't make them earn a single cent for the next 60 years) ... least you can do is drop tariffs on Japanese car manufacturers, or stop supporting corrupt, faltering motor companies like GM, now can't you?

Given that public debt of the US is 16 trillion, and represents 106.9% of US GDP .... that would mean of the 44% of foreign central banks owning US debt (as lenders, given almost half of America's debt is owed to Foreign organizations) ... that would mean that Japan and China alone literally own more than 10% of your entire country's net worth ... and the rest of the 34% being owned by Australia, England, Germany .... basically the rest of the developed world ...

I KNOW Americans know this....because |I watch American news on occasion ... America knows of US bailouts .... and Americans didn't pillage and burn. In fact most Americans seemed quite blase about the whole thing ..."

I couldn't agree more. The whole Europe=Socialism and USA=Free Markets thing couldn't be more wrong. We've both gone back and forth over and over again. Our shared trial now is the massive debt crunch and failure of non-specie backed, non-100% reserve banking systems all over the world. We're all in this boat together, and we've been heading this direction ever since WW1 destroyed the classic gold standard, and nationalism and greed made it impossible to reaffirm it. Since then, most GDP growth is the result of increased government expansion and borrowing as well as inflated, inverted pyramid style credit expansion in the private sector.

The last paragraph in my comment above is my statement. Everything before that is a quote. It looks hard to tell, though. Sorry.

Sensei Le Roof:
I had to laugh. "Ubisoft Montreal? Well, that explains it." Dunno why, but it struck me as funny.

Go figure they also made Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time.

Ahh busting on my city T_T

tkwelge:
In most of the US, somebody who rides public transportation and lives in an apartment is considered incredibly poor. Even teenagers can scrape enough money together to own a car and share a large (2200 square feet) rental house in many parts of the country.

America's made for cars, Europe isn't. The road network here is so bogged down that it's alot faster to go by public transport, which is quite excellent. It's a cultural thing, I live in a small country and you don't need a car to get around. Same thing with housing, space here is a scarce commodity and very expensive, restaurants usually don't have a parking lot instead of what it's like in the US where the restaurant is in the centre of a huge parking lot.

You can buy a parking space in the centre of Amsterdam for about $200,000.- , lol.

Kick ass on the new book! I hope that shit is available on Kindle!

TheEnglishman:
LOL at the stupid Americans not wanting free health care.

That's so funny! Except that's not how it works, and it would dig into the pockets of Americans not to fix the debt we're in but to provide medicine in a way that's easily associated with socialism (since you'd be taking from all to provide for all), and that by the end it's simply taking money to force people to buy health care.

Who's going to be the first person to drop all the pretense and simply draw an ASCII hand to jerk off Yahtzee with?

Shamanic Rhythm:

Frederick II:
Snip

I'm going to wait here for you to link to where he's made this same analogy before.

Waiting.

Go to the list of ZP videos. Close your eyes and click randomly. Done.

BTW, the "waiting" joke isn't funny if it's in the same post.

DurianBlink:

Josh_V2.0:

DurianBlink:

Josh_V2.0:

A bit defensive are we? Listen, I understand that you can't just go about labeling entire nations as being this or that. I'm not saying that I feel this way about all Americans, it just happens to be the case with many of them. I found Yahtzee's little joke to be a very well presented description of how the rest of the word views the United States, and if that offends you then maybe you should just go have a word with him.

Another thing, was that 'whining like a little bitch' bit really necessary? Because I don't believe I had anything to complain about in my last post.

Yes, we're all morbidly obese cowboy rednecks with room temperature IQs.

If the rest of the world really views us as this, then they really need a reality check. The comment by Yahtzee was a pure rage induced attack, badly covered up as a joke. It's almost like you could feel Yahtzee's teeth grating as he wrote the script.

I just find it a bit douchebaggish of Yahtzee to bite the hand that feeds him.

And according to websiteoutlook.com, this website is viewed 46.7% by Americans, so Yahtzee's little douchebag comments probably won't be winning him that many fans.

I'd like you to go back and read over the boldfaced text. I just want to be sure you actually read my comment before you posted your own.

Also, about that teeth grinding thing, I think that was just you.

I read what you said. But you see the key word here is "many"

I was not grinding my teeth in rage at the comment. I simply sat there and said "Really?" and then proceeded to right click on my Zero Punctuation feed and click delete. The reason I said that was because the attack was so poorly hidden behind a joke, it is obvious Yahtzee feels a lot of resentment towards the U.S.

I'm not going to argue with your opinion, but I'd like to point out that 'many' does not mean 'most.'

As an American I must confess that I find a lot of humor in how many people got their feelings hurt by that ONE joke. I also have a feeling I know those people's political affiliation.

this was one of most honest reviews for this game i read(heard) so far.
Thank you.
Was great and fun. As usual

winter2:
As an American I must confess that I find a lot of humor in how many people got their feelings hurt by that ONE joke. I also have a feeling I know those people's political affiliation.

I think this has a lot less to do with political affiliation and a lot more to do with what amounts to Yahtzee pulling a cheap shot to garner points from the non-American crowd. As I noted earlier, America has a lot of big, dangerous, doomsday inducing weaponry. The motivation is simple; who give a crap about fixing debt when you hold the world hostage with enough firepower to turn the surface of the planet into a Fallout style wasteland?

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