Steam Gets Civilized

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I'm probably gonna buy Elemental instead

cyber_andyy:

Cody211282:
Damn it why do i need steam, I don't play multiplayer(except local) and I hate auto-updates not to mention I despise having steam on my computer. The only reason I have it right now is because I need to for DOW2 and I hate the fact that it takes about 5 min for steam to launch, then update, then look for updates for the game, then it prepares to launch for another 3, then finally lets me play my damn game.

...

Time to launch steam as of clicking the exe: 11.28 seconds.
Time to launch L4D: 9.68 Seconds.
Total time to get in game: 20.96 Seconds.

The problem isn't steam, it's you.

What reason is there to hate auto updates? Theres no logic behind it. If anything, it allows hot fixes to be distributed quickly and easily, and makes sure everybody has the same version

Seriously, can we have a intelligent argument against steam?

It takes me an average of 5 min to get into a game that I have to have steam for, and I can run DOW2 on max setting, so I don't think it's my computer. I also see no damn point in have to use steam if I go out and buy the disc, as I stated before I have no problem if they want to sell it with steam I just have no clue why I need it if I didn't buy it from steam.

And for the auto updates, since I don't play multiplayer I friken hate it when I'm forced to update for no reason, not to mention if I have any mods it kills them.

EDIT: I should also point out that I don't buy games from steam, I hate not having the physical disk on me, it bugs me to no end and I hate waiting to download stuff.

really thats my only problem with steam, not what it is now but what it could become if the company decides to not focus on the customers

Obviously I'm the only person in the world whose computer freezes during Dwarf Fortress.

I tried installing Steam some time ago, when there was a big sale for a game I wanted or other. It wouldn't load so I gave up. Haven't come back since. I'm primarialy a console gamer, so there's nothing I want on Steam, or more precisely that which I do want on Steam won't run on my computer.

That said, from an outside perspecitive, they do look like the best bet. If a company gains a near-monopoly through competence rather than dirty dealings, I see no problem in supporting it. If the smaller companies want to compete they may just as well step up their game.

If it ends up being like the console wars it's a desirable outcome. Even better because the odds you'll get stuck with a Dreamcast are low. Unless all these programs have some sort of feature to prevent themselves from being disabled I think anyone who's primarialy a PC gamer will know how to shut them off selectively if need be.

So. I love Steam. I own lots of games on Steam. And I live in Australia. So keep that in mind when reading he following:

BAH. My issue isn't with Valve or Steam, but with 2K. Those greedy bastards are pursuing heavily regionalised prices on Steam. On the INTERNET. Which is a fundamentally BORDERLESS environment. It makes me so incredibly angry when a company does this. $50USD. 30GBP. $80AUD. So I'm being charged 40-60% more, just because I live in a nation where people are dumb and buy stuff from brick-and-mortar stores which have to slug them because -they- get ripped off by publishers and/or distributers. So fuck you, 2K. Good choice going with Steam - you obviously support non-retarded DRM. But I refuse to buy this game for 60% more than someone else has to pay, just because they live somewhere else. It's discrimination, and it's cost them a sale.

Now, I'm responding to a bunch of people, so it's been covered in spoiler tags so my post isn't ridiculously long.

Crunchy English:
Shamus has got me thinking. I hate it when he does that. Basically there's two outlooks

1) Steam provides the superior service, why shouldn't it be rewarded with Market Share?
or
2) Even a superior Digital Distribution Service isn't ideal, shouldn't the consumers who disagree with the entire concept have an alternative choice?

I think both sides are right, Consumers should have final say AND hard work and good policy should always be rewarded. In the end though, its all irrelevant. Companies don't care about consumer agency any more than is absolutely necessary, and if hard work and good policies were the only metric for success then Ubisoft would have gone out of business forever ago.

Pretty much agree with this guy, really there's very little wrong with having Steam installed, and you get a free Portal if you buy Civ 5 before the 24th May. (Ok, You get a free Portal just for installing Steam before then!) but yes, once installed, you can set it not to run on startup, to be in offline mode, and to generally leave you the hell alone when you're playing.

On the downside, a monopoly is rarely a good thing, and Steam's lovely friendly side may well slip away if they find a way of destroying all competition with the Steamworks option forcing people to come to them. After all, why bother investing in customer service, good prices and ease of use if people don't have a choice any more?

I actually don't see Steam 'turning to the dark side' but it is a concern that Steamworks could get out of hand and stop the little guys getting a cut, despite it being a useful piece of software. At present I have Steam installed, along with games from GOG, D2D, and EA Store.

Um... a game shoudl never be exclusively on steam. That's fucking retarded.

Shamus, I enjoyed your article and found it informative on the debate about digital distribution but your last paragraph kind of ruins it. Merely stating your opinion that one company controlling a market is bad for consumers is 1. lazy and 2. analytically wrong. If you want to explain the economics behind your opinion that competition=good for consumer then at least your view could be respected, but as it stands it looks like you are either trying to brainwash or brainwashed yourself.

Let me give you an example of competition=good not failing. In the UK Royal Mail used to have a monopoly over the postal services in the country. Sending a letter from anywhere cost the same amount as it did from anywhere else and all of the rates were reasonable. Then a right wing 'Labour' government decided to open up the lucrative business market to other companies and ripped out a very profitable sector from under Royal Mail's nose. This in turn has created a multi-tier mail system based on where you live as well as making all mail significantly more expensive. Post takes longer, postmen have to do MUCH longer shifts with little additional renumeration, they have to carry much larger sacks, investment in equipment is much slower to happen, and workers have to strike to improve their wage in line with inflation meaning we all get our post delayed or lost. Another example would be the break-up of British Rail, the company that used to have a monopoly over the railway here. Broken up by the Conservatives and finished off by Labour, we went from having reasonable prices with trains that generally run on time and an integrated information network whereby if a train is cancelled the consumer gets to know about it (rather than sitting in the fucking rain for two and a half hours as happened to me) as well as loyalty cards etc. that work wherever you go to having a fragmented system with more waiting, more delays, more accidents, and more cost.

StriderShinryu:
"Six years ago Half-Life 2 came out as a Steam exclusive. Fans of the series got a chance to figure out what the platform was all about, and then they had to decide if they were willing to accept it, or miss out on the flagship of all FPS games."

Not a bad column by any means but.. what? Half-Life 2 the flagship of FPS? Yes, I'm an admitted HL2 unbeliever but even if I stretch my imagination (and tolerance) as far as it (they) can go, I still can't see any truth in this statement.

Any FPS fan worth his grain has played Half Life 2, regrets having not been able to, or is jaded that his personal favorite FPS title isn't in that throne (if I had to guess, you fall into the third category).

You really can't say that about many other FPS games, so yeah... I'd say that Half Life 2 is a flagship FPS title.

Plurralbles:
Um... a game shoudl never be exclusively on steam. That's fucking retarded.

So you're saying the console gaming market is stupid, too?

WhiteTigerShiro:

Plurralbles:
Um... a game shoudl never be exclusively on steam. That's fucking retarded.

So you're saying the console gaming market is stupid, too?

... no, I'm not. A distribution service is not the same as a fucking console.

Cody211282:

cyber_andyy:

Cody211282:
Damn it why do i need steam, I don't play multiplayer(except local) and I hate auto-updates not to mention I despise having steam on my computer. The only reason I have it right now is because I need to for DOW2 and I hate the fact that it takes about 5 min for steam to launch, then update, then look for updates for the game, then it prepares to launch for another 3, then finally lets me play my damn game.

...

Time to launch steam as of clicking the exe: 11.28 seconds.
Time to launch L4D: 9.68 Seconds.
Total time to get in game: 20.96 Seconds.

The problem isn't steam, it's you.

What reason is there to hate auto updates? Theres no logic behind it. If anything, it allows hot fixes to be distributed quickly and easily, and makes sure everybody has the same version

Seriously, can we have a intelligent argument against steam?

It takes me an average of 5 min to get into a game that I have to have steam for, and I can run DOW2 on max setting, so I don't think it's my computer. I also see no damn point in have to use steam if I go out and buy the disc, as I stated before I have no problem if they want to sell it with steam I just have no clue why I need it if I didn't buy it from steam.

And for the auto updates, since I don't play multiplayer I friken hate it when I'm forced to update for no reason, not to mention if I have any mods it kills them.

EDIT: I should also point out that I don't buy games from steam, I hate not having the physical disk on me, it bugs me to no end and I hate waiting to download stuff.

I find that hard to believe.
My PC is getting close to 3 years old now, and does not take that long to launch.
Maybe close to a full minute, as my PC is lacking in the hardware department.

And, auto update can be turned off.

I'll buy the game, and then "pirate" a steam-cracked version.

cyber_andyy:
It takes me an average of 5 min to get into a game that I have to have steam for, and I can run DOW2 on max setting, so I don't think it's my computer. I also see no damn point in have to use steam if I go out and buy the disc, as I stated before I have no problem if they want to sell it with steam I just have no clue why I need it if I didn't buy it from steam.

And for the auto updates, since I don't play multiplayer I friken hate it when I'm forced to update for no reason, not to mention if I have any mods it kills them.

EDIT: I should also point out that I don't buy games from steam, I hate not having the physical disk on me, it bugs me to no end and I hate waiting to download stuff.

If it takes you five minutes, then I'd really suggest running a couple of defrags if you haven't already. And/Or running a disk check on the drive you keep your Steam games on. Or reinstalling Steam and your Steam games, if it's only Steam that does this.

Steam is best thing that happened to computers since Compact Discs.

fenrizz:

Cody211282:

cyber_andyy:

Cody211282:
Damn it why do i need steam, I don't play multiplayer(except local) and I hate auto-updates not to mention I despise having steam on my computer. The only reason I have it right now is because I need to for DOW2 and I hate the fact that it takes about 5 min for steam to launch, then update, then look for updates for the game, then it prepares to launch for another 3, then finally lets me play my damn game.

...

Time to launch steam as of clicking the exe: 11.28 seconds.
Time to launch L4D: 9.68 Seconds.
Total time to get in game: 20.96 Seconds.

The problem isn't steam, it's you.

What reason is there to hate auto updates? Theres no logic behind it. If anything, it allows hot fixes to be distributed quickly and easily, and makes sure everybody has the same version

Seriously, can we have a intelligent argument against steam?

It takes me an average of 5 min to get into a game that I have to have steam for, and I can run DOW2 on max setting, so I don't think it's my computer. I also see no damn point in have to use steam if I go out and buy the disc, as I stated before I have no problem if they want to sell it with steam I just have no clue why I need it if I didn't buy it from steam.

And for the auto updates, since I don't play multiplayer I friken hate it when I'm forced to update for no reason, not to mention if I have any mods it kills them.

EDIT: I should also point out that I don't buy games from steam, I hate not having the physical disk on me, it bugs me to no end and I hate waiting to download stuff.

I find that hard to believe.
My PC is getting close to 3 years old now, and does not take that long to launch.
Maybe close to a full minute, as my PC is lacking in the hardware department.

And, auto update can be turned off.

Maybe it's because my internet connection is not all that great or maybe it's something else, and yes I know auto updates can be turned off, but as I said last time I did that it told me I couldn't play DOW2 because it was out of date and needed to patch. I mostly don't see the point in having steam at all, it just sit on my computer taking up space and running in the background eating memory.

Yamikotai:

cyber_andyy:
It takes me an average of 5 min to get into a game that I have to have steam for, and I can run DOW2 on max setting, so I don't think it's my computer. I also see no damn point in have to use steam if I go out and buy the disc, as I stated before I have no problem if they want to sell it with steam I just have no clue why I need it if I didn't buy it from steam.

And for the auto updates, since I don't play multiplayer I friken hate it when I'm forced to update for no reason, not to mention if I have any mods it kills them.

EDIT: I should also point out that I don't buy games from steam, I hate not having the physical disk on me, it bugs me to no end and I hate waiting to download stuff.

If it takes you five minutes, then I'd really suggest running a couple of defrags if you haven't already. And/Or running a disk check on the drive you keep your Steam games on.

I have one hard drive that gets defraged and disk checked twice a week(I just have it to auto do it when I'm at class) so it's not that, and since I only have one hard drive I know it gets done.

Oh GOD, IT'S STEAM!!

I use it even with games I didn't buy on steampowered. Because being able to use in-game interface while playing Guild Wars, Ragnarok Online or Aion is awesome.

Fenixius:
So. I love Steam. I own lots of games on Steam. And I live in Australia. So keep that in mind when reading he following:

BAH. My issue isn't with Valve or Steam, but with 2K. Those greedy bastards are pursuing heavily regionalised prices on Steam. On the INTERNET. Which is a fundamentally BORDERLESS environment. It makes me so incredibly angry when a company does this. $50USD. 30GBP. $80AUD. So I'm being charged 40-60% more, just because I live in a nation where people are dumb and buy stuff from brick-and-mortar stores which have to slug them because -they- get ripped off by publishers and/or distributers. So fuck you, 2K. Good choice going with Steam - you obviously support non-retarded DRM. But I refuse to buy this game for 60% more than someone else has to pay, just because they live somewhere else. It's discrimination, and it's cost them a sale.

Now, I'm responding to a bunch of people, so it's been covered in spoiler tags so my post isn't ridiculously long.

Cody211282:
Damn it why do i need steam, I don't play multiplayer(except local) and I hate auto-updates not to mention I despise having steam on my computer. The only reason I have it right now is because I need to for DOW2 and I hate the fact that it takes about 5 min for steam to launch, then update, then look for updates for the game, then it prepares to launch for another 3, then finally lets me play my damn game.

*coughs quietly* You know, if you look at Dawn of War 2's attached programs, Games For Windows Live is about a dozen times as frustrating. Especially if you like multiplayer. Just make sure Steam doesn't run at startup, if it's an issue for you :)

Game for Windows Live is a whole nother bag of worms I would rather not get into, but thank god I don't play multiplayer, and yes steam doesn't open what i start my computer.

Fenixius:

Cody211282:
I tried that one and it when a patch came out it wouldn't let me play because I was out of date, I'll check to see if that has changed, but it will have to wait until steam is done patching.....again.

If you're upset at something for it being patched a lot, I have to question whether or not you realise how beneficial it is to you when things are patched. Go and read the patch notes. See how they fix crashes, bugs, and in the case of games, imbalances. Really, if you like, go and take a look at the pile of rubbish Steam was when HL2 launched with it back in 2004 or so. See the justified rage at having to use Steam, because back then it was buggy, and was a mess. I'm so glad they've patched it!

Well I wouldn't have to deal with patches, bugs, my game crashing because steam decided to patch in the middle of me playing(and making me redo Angel Gate when I was 30 seconds away from finally winning) or anything else if I wasn't forced to use steam. I mean honestly I bought the damn hard copy for a reason, if I wanted to deal with steam I would just buy from them!

Saverio:
I really cannot wait for Valve to get put under investigation for their anti-competitive practices. They are simply bullies who make everyone else happy.

Your use of an oxymoron has been detected.

On topic, while I don't play Civ and do use Steam for quite a bit (although only when retail is not cheaper), I do feel that the main issue should be the "Steam Exclusive Limited Edition" which includes day 1 DLC. I can't help feeling that Firaxis is pulling a Creative Assembly here[1].

[1] If you've seen the masses of DLC for Empire: Total War, you'll know what I mean.

I don't understand the hate here. Steam is actually a pretty decent piece of kit. If nothing else it allows me to buy and install games at 2am in my bedroom in my underpants, I have yet to find a high street store that is OK with me wandering in dressed like that in the wee hours of the morning - what more do you want?

Cody211282:
Damn it why do i need steam, I don't play multiplayer(except local) and I hate auto-updates not to mention I despise having steam on my computer. The only reason I have it right now is because I need to for DOW2 and I hate the fact that it takes about 5 min for steam to launch, then update, then look for updates for the game, then it prepares to launch for another 3, then finally lets me play my damn game.

I'm really surprised your comp can handle Dow2. Steam doesn't look for updates, it gets an update if there's any. Also, who the fuck hates auto-patching, are you in love with fileplanet or something?

Also, somone else was complaining about R* social club which was shit as far as the client goes but they removed it and the R* social club itself is great, let's you compare progress with your friends, check your own stats and upload videos.

Some of you obivously miss a point here. Its not about loving or hating Steam. Personally i got used to it, its convinient for me but...

The issue is with the fact it is -ENFORCED- on a gamer with certain products. It is borderline monopolist tactic. You dont get to choose if you want a steam or no-steam version.Once you install it and start it up, each time you will, like it or not, be exposed to advertisements of single company.
For not that much idfferent tactics with web browsers Microsoft was already fined in the old days(the case was about IE being shipped with Windows to popularize their own web browser as well as API being more firendly towards their product, and it was in times where much more people used dial-up so downloading anything was pain). If more non-valve products will be Steam exclusives it may soon come to simillar situation. Not giving customer a choice in what third-party apps they install is bad practice.

ALPHATT:

Cody211282:
Damn it why do i need steam, I don't play multiplayer(except local) and I hate auto-updates not to mention I despise having steam on my computer. The only reason I have it right now is because I need to for DOW2 and I hate the fact that it takes about 5 min for steam to launch, then update, then look for updates for the game, then it prepares to launch for another 3, then finally lets me play my damn game.

I'm really surprised your comp can handle Dow2. Steam doesn't look for updates, it gets an update if there's any. Also, who the fuck hates auto-patching, are you in love with fileplanet or something?

No I just don't like patching, as I said before I don't play multiplayer as a general rule(unless a friend wants to and I only have one that has the game), so the only time I update is if something is so damn broken about the game that i literally can't beat it without the patch. And my comp can run DOW2 on max because its a friken beast.

Keava:
Some of you obivously miss a point here. Its not about loving or hating Steam. Personally i got used to it, its convinient for me but...

The issue is with the fact it is -ENFORCED- on a gamer with certain products. It is borderline monopolist tactic. You dont get to choose if you want a steam or no-steam version.Once you install it and start it up, each time you will, like it or not, be exposed to advertisements of single company.

Holy crap this is exactly what I have been trying to say and people have taken it like I just putted a puppy into napalm. I hate the fact that something I don't want is force upon me for no reason, I didn't go out and by a Valve game, I didn't download it, I went out and bought the damn disk!

What's the point of the artice? I don't get all the outrage of Steamworks in Civilization V. I don't get it why author thinks all Civ fans are uber-hardcore geeks who don't care of all the other games and genres.

I play shooters, I play RTS, arcade racers, role-playing games, turn-based strategies. I play on PC and Xbox 360. As PC gamer I have Steam installed (with lots of purchased games) and think that it's the best thing that happened to PC gaming since DirectX.

Civ 4's gamespy multiplayer tech is awful - there's no friends system, there's a broken registration (somehow many gamespy games require dedicated gamespy profile, so I have to keep several of them), no game-independent chat and voice-comm. Gamespy is ancient dinosaur who just have no right to be in modern games.
To evade it I even gave to use Hamachi for multiplayer with my friends! That's just not right.

Everyone who've ever played on console (be that X360 or PS3) knows how great it is to have game-independent fiends list and ability to invite them to any MP game or just chat with them anytime. I don't even mention integrated storefront, achievments, game videos, ratings and automatic patching.
Steam is just the same thing for PC, and I think PC gaming would be long dead without Valve.
They may become a monopoly someday, but for me they have already became one - I just don't consider buying from some other DD system a viable choice anymore, because I want to install any game to fresh computer without the need to remember several DD systems' passwords or even installing several software clients. I just install Steam and have all my games, friends list immediately - with voice-chat, patches, community, forums and storefront.

Just the recent example of lame friends system in Battlefield - Bad Company 2 for PC: there's a friend list, but I can't send friend a message, I can't voice-chat with him while not on the same server, I can't invite him to my game, even the process of adding required several attempts! I know of course that console versions use Live/PSN functionality, but creating some kind of surrogate Xbox Live for PC is just stupid, while there's Steam available!

Anyway, all this text can be summarised in one sentence: I like Steam and very glad to have it in Civ 5.
____

Some of you may tell that forcing Steam on gamers is violation of their rights, but think of the other aspect of it - there's NO way to give good unified community/patching functionality without forcing every gamer to install some kind of client. It's either poor functionality (like in BF:BC2 for PC and most steam-less games) and lots of unneeded work for developers (they have to make this functionality for every damn PC game, while same thing is already available on consoles and is working great with no extra cost) or fast Steamworks implementation (compared to doing it all by yourself) and great functionality.
If not Steam, we'd have every publisher (or, worse, developer) using their own community systems, and that'll be a disaster - remember Rockstar's horrible unneeded Social Club or latest Ubisoft's attempts.
And we can't allow Microsoft to have a monopoly with their inderior Windows Live, because Mac users will be left out of the gaming for a very-very long time then.

Meh... Steam sucks. I quit HL clan play back then...

Why is Steam even a problem for people? I have had nothing but great experiences with Steam, and Valve in general. Best service/company on the gaming scene by far. This is coming from someone with 70-some-odd games on Steam.

I've never experienced resource-hogging, authentication problems, or any of the crap the anti-steam folk seem to complain about, and this is on multiple hardware configurations. Seems to be just a bunch of whining.

P.S. I swear I'm not a Valve rep.

Shamus Young:
2) "Steam is a stable lightweight client" vs. "Steam is a crash-prone resource-hungry virus."

Honestly, I had no idea anyone had problems running Steam - its always worked fine and dandy for me.

Cody211282:

ALPHATT:

Cody211282:
Damn it why do i need steam, I don't play multiplayer(except local) and I hate auto-updates not to mention I despise having steam on my computer. The only reason I have it right now is because I need to for DOW2 and I hate the fact that it takes about 5 min for steam to launch, then update, then look for updates for the game, then it prepares to launch for another 3, then finally lets me play my damn game.

I'm really surprised your comp can handle Dow2. Steam doesn't look for updates, it gets an update if there's any. Also, who the fuck hates auto-patching, are you in love with fileplanet or something?

No I just don't like patching, as I said before I don't play multiplayer as a general rule(unless a friend wants to and I only have one that has the game), so the only time I update is if something is so damn broken about the game that i literally can't beat it without the patch. And my comp can run DOW2 on max because its a friken beast.

A beast...that can't run Steam? This is where the other guy's confusion was, I think - if your comp runs DoW 2 fine, it should have zero problem with Steam...

As for auto-update, if you really, really, REALLY don't want it, you can turn it off for individual games.

Okay, I don't see the problem. When the people who don't wanna use Steam complain enough to murder someone, 2K Games will just release the thing as a retail game, therefor gaining them more money. 2K Games aren't stupid enough to NOT do that.

V8 Ninja:
Okay, I don't see the problem. When the people who don't wanna use Steam complain enough to murder someone, 2K Games will just release the thing as a retail game, therefor gaining them more money. 2K Games aren't stupid enough to NOT do that.

There ARE retail copies, but they require Steam to work; thats why people are angry about it.

Not me personally, but I can understand why people feel angry about being forced to use it. That said, they where being forced to use SecuRom before, which is much worse than anything Steam has ever done, heh.

Doug:

Cody211282:

ALPHATT:

Cody211282:
Damn it why do i need steam, I don't play multiplayer(except local) and I hate auto-updates not to mention I despise having steam on my computer. The only reason I have it right now is because I need to for DOW2 and I hate the fact that it takes about 5 min for steam to launch, then update, then look for updates for the game, then it prepares to launch for another 3, then finally lets me play my damn game.

I'm really surprised your comp can handle Dow2. Steam doesn't look for updates, it gets an update if there's any. Also, who the fuck hates auto-patching, are you in love with fileplanet or something?

No I just don't like patching, as I said before I don't play multiplayer as a general rule(unless a friend wants to and I only have one that has the game), so the only time I update is if something is so damn broken about the game that i literally can't beat it without the patch. And my comp can run DOW2 on max because its a friken beast.

A beast...that can't run Steam? This is where the other guy's confusion was, I think - if your comp runs DoW 2 fine, it should have zero problem with Steam...

As for auto-update, if you really, really, REALLY don't want it, you can turn it off for individual games.

As I have said before it's not running it, it's connecting that I have a problem with, mostly because my internet sucks, but it only bother me on steam. As for turning it off as I said before I did that once, when a new patch came out it wouldn't let me play until I updated, so it was exactly the same.

I would also like to point out that my biggest problem is that I'm forced to have steam after buying the disc, it makes no sense and if I don't want it I shouldn't have to use it.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Steam. I don't deny that it's DRM, but it's the nicest and most agreeable of ALL DRMs ever created. I'm a fan of Valve, too.

However, I am also a big fan of personal choice. I'd very much like to see Steamworks used as an OPTIONAL plugin, possibly required for the multi-player. I'm sorry, but I've played Battlefield 2 Bad Company, and while the game was good, the matchmaking and server finding was close to a criminal offence; using a third-party matchmaking service would have done them a world of good, and Steamworks is excellent at it. So yea, possibly required for multi-player. But if it's the long game in peace, starting a Civ game in the morning and finishing in the evening you're after, I think you should have the choice not to bother with Steam.

Me, I'm going to buy this, and play it, and be monumentally thankful that it's on Steam. Steam does on occasion do things I find distasteful, such as the $//€ pricing affair, but since there are few things I hate more than filling my shelves with game boxes, and Steam games have so far proven less perishable than CD ones anyway, I accept the bad with the good as the overall best choice for me. And I'll be an avid supporter of Steam until the day they tick me off; but your right NOT to use it and still get to play your favourite games should be preserved equally, I feel.

Don't Poke My Bobcat:

To put it blunt, I shouldn't have to turn on my air conditioner to drive my car.

I know the last thing you want is another Steam fanboy shoving his opinion down your throat, but I just wanted to say that I felt the same as you when I bought the Orange Box. However, now that I have it, I find it to be a program that I want to run on my PC. The chat and friend list stuff makes it functional in more ways than I could have expected. I wasn't planning on buying any games from their store because I like my physical copies, but when they started offering games for $3-$5, I couldn't say no. I'm at 186 games now, and I have no regrets and no problem with the way Steam treats me. Maybe you will have a similar experience, maybe you won't, but I feel in control of the games I own because Steam treats me like an adult. GfWL came with another game I got, and it feels so restrictive by comparison.

Yamikotai:

cyber_andyy:
It takes me an average of 5 min to get into a game that I have to have steam for, and I can run DOW2 on max setting, so I don't think it's my computer. I also see no damn point in have to use steam if I go out and buy the disc, as I stated before I have no problem if they want to sell it with steam I just have no clue why I need it if I didn't buy it from steam.

And for the auto updates, since I don't play multiplayer I friken hate it when I'm forced to update for no reason, not to mention if I have any mods it kills them.

EDIT: I should also point out that I don't buy games from steam, I hate not having the physical disk on me, it bugs me to no end and I hate waiting to download stuff.

If it takes you five minutes, then I'd really suggest running a couple of defrags if you haven't already. And/Or running a disk check on the drive you keep your Steam games on. Or reinstalling Steam and your Steam games, if it's only Steam that does this.

You quoted the wrong person ;)

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