259: Vaginophobia

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JoeCool385:

"Our secular culture produces all kinds of fear, including fear of the female anatomy."

I literally lol'd at this and had to stop reading for a minute to regain my composure. Our secular culture does not, in any way, shape, or form, "fear" female anatomy. Quite the opposite, actually, to the point that it's hard to get away from it.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/5/7/

You are confusing culture with individuals. Individuals don't fear the female anatomy but let's just look at television. You can show some pretty violent stuff on tv but the second someone shows a boob, you get social groups (not individual members of the society, but groups) that are up in arms.

hanako:

Which is scarier to find when you walk into a room, a sword hovering there whose menace is obvious, or a dark hole whose menace is completely unknown?

Nice question.

Don't have a whole lot to add to the discussion here, but it does seem to me that "best of" editions likely might involve some retreads.

That said, an interesting article that tries too hard I think.

Men's reality is this: there is a very small percentage of men who are considered desirable by women. The rest are evolutionarily speaking buffers and meant to die protecting or providing for the women, children, and desirable men. The hard part is coming to terms the fact that chances are you are in the undesirable category.

Also most of us (us being western first world men) were raised on the bullshit romantic fantasy propagated by Hollywood, Madison Ave, and countless other hucksters. The idea that if a man tries hard enough he will eventually win the affections of a woman who is initially indifferent to him. And then at some point in our lives, we realize that if a girl doesn't like us there is nothing in the world we can do to make her like us.

When it comes to dating remember the immortal words of Tyler Durden: Losing all hope is freedom.

I am a female gamer. I certainly don't play the "casual" games. I play mostly RPG's, and not JRPGs, either. Yes, I do play the Sims (and 2 and 3), but my favorite game of all time was Baldur's Gate. I also used to play the Gold Box SSI games back in the day. Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Blades, Pools of Darkness, Dark Queen of Krynn... I also have played Icewind Dale, Civilization (from the Original to 4, and Civilization: Call to Power as well). Older Games like Crystal Quest, Battlezone (from the Arcades) and Tetris were some of my past favorites.

When the game Baldur's Gate 2 came out, and I found out it had romance in it, I was thrilled. But to be honest, the way it was implemented left me completely underwhelmed. For male protagonists, you had three possible love interests: Aerie, the "Good" character, Jaheira, the "Neutral" character, and Viconia DuVir, the Dark Elf "Evil" character. For female protagonists, you had Anomen, and that was it. He started out Lawful Neutral, and could be turned to either Lawful Good (stuffy, arrogant guy), or Neutral Evil (in which case he became an asshat). Spoiled for choice, female characters were, hmm? Okay, there was a UserMod that allowed you to romance one of the Dark Elf male characters later in the game and have him join your party, which also involved something of reforming him, but it shows who the producers of the game thought were more likely to play it.

RPGs also have players who think it is "gay" if a male player wants to play a female character. It's not seen as strange for a female player to play a male character, but in the reverse, you start having other, immature players accuse the player of being "swishy" or even outright gay, which argues to me that a certain subset of players think that anything female is bad or "icky". Women can play men because that's what everyone wants to be (male), but in the reverse means something is wrong with the player.

Beyond that, I am not trying to come off as a troll. I respect that everything I have ever wrote on any forum anywhere has always been misinterpreted. So ive said my peace, and I leave it at that. Bababooey!

No worries, you weren't the one I accused of trolling. :) It's a complex world out there, and EVERYBODY has crazy expectations they feel pressured to live up to. I don't mean to knock your feelings, I know your stuff can be frustrating as well.

If there's anything I want on the subject, it's for people to be willing to live and let live, and to be more motivated to make their OWN stuff if they don't like what's out there, instead of trying to destroy things other people want. Because YOU (generic you, not you personally) are always the person best equipped to make a game/book/whatever that's got what YOU like in it.

Men's reality is this: there is a very small percentage of men who are considered desirable by women. The rest are evolutionarily speaking buffers and meant to die protecting or providing for the women, children, and desirable men. The hard part is coming to terms the fact that chances are you are in the undesirable category.

This isn't unique to men, though. Find me a woman anywhere who's never felt ugly and unwanted. Even a lot of supermodels are amazingly insecure. A small percentage of women meet the hollywood beauty standard. Most women can find *someone, somewhere* if they broaden their standards enough, but so can most men.

Also most of us (us being western first world men) were raised on the bullshit romantic fantasy propagated by Hollywood, Madison Ave, and countless other hucksters. The idea that if a man tries hard enough he will eventually win the affections of a woman who is initially indifferent to him. And then at some point in our lives, we realize that if a girl doesn't like us there is nothing in the world we can do to make her like us.

There's also the romantic fantasy that the *perfect* person is out there for you somewhere and you shouldn't settle for anything less. But people aren't perfect. A lot of girls (and guys) pass up all kinds of chances in their lives because they're waiting for The One, and they'll drop The Maybe at the slightest sign of imperfection... then look back on it years later and realise what a good thing they had going before they threw it away.

That's not to say that you should shack up with someone you hate just to avoid being alone, but most people as they grow up have to take a hard look at their priorities and decide which things really matter and which can be compromised on.

Zachary Amaranth:

Mortagog:
I don't understand how people can obsess over sexes and sexual stereotypes and insecurities and blahablahoblahargh. I really couldn't care less about "vaginophobia" in games.

The latter is rather indicative of the former.

Why yes, you are right. I am all but certain that there is a correlation between the two!

If you play as men, and you can kill women, it's supposedly a rape fantasy game.
If you play as men, and you can't find women, then you're a misogynistic git to whom women are simple 'not-men', not part of your universe, of your 'symbolic order'.
If you play as women, and can kill men, you're lusting after a sexualized character, made erotic through her generic 'bitchiness' and strength.
If you play as women, and can't kill men, you're obsessed with 'babes'.

You'd think that after recognizing some of the most common double binds in history, the offspring of yesteryear's feminism would be able to spot them today.

One of the biggest issues is that, with enough pseudo-deconstructionist bullshit, it's possible to pose everything as phallocentric (or, as I should really say, phallogocentric). A weapon looks like a penis, so it's assumed to be an extension of one. What if a weapon was more vagina-like? Then, it would be an issue of 'containment' (hijacked from, but essentially kin to Bahktin's sense of the phrase) - 'containing' the threat of the vagina by reposing it as a phallic logos. Or, maybe the weapon's danger is more 'vaginophobia'. Either way, you're a horrid misogynistic bastard, and you should be ashamed of your testicles.

It's nice that people are getting worked up about at least *something*, but for Christ's sake, there's more important issues in gender politics. Like honor killings and female circumcision. Or widespread chauvinism in the developing world. Why not tackle *those*?

Psst, this article is still bullshit. Posting it again doesn't change that.

In their defense, there is *always* a more important issue, no matter what your current issue is. If you're saving the planet, you're not thinking of the children, if you're thinking of the children, you're not saving the planet. If you spend your time frantically debating which bad is worse you'd never get *anything* done, and for people who are actually involved with the games industry it's pretty reasonable to think about issues of representation within the games industry.

That said, I'm not sure how productive towards *anything* it is to only focus on deconstructing. :)

One big thing the article glossed over (Gears of War 2 spoilers)

In Gears of War 2, Dom doesn't kill his wife because she would be a burden. He kills her because she's been turned into a mindless vegetable with absolutely no hope of recovery, and the only good thing he could do is put her out of her misery.

"It's not that the medium is in its adolescence, it's that you're a bunch of ****ing adolescents."

It's exactly how I feel about the gaming industry. Male fantasies of domination and frustration.

The only realistic portrayal of a woman in a game I've ever seen is Alyx Vance in the Half Life series. Here is a woman who does not have two oversized watermelons or an outfit that emphasizes them. Instead she has a real life physique with her strongest points being her intellect and humour.

People call GTA a game for adults, I call it a game for teenagers. The Half Life series are the only games that come close to a real adult game, which should be characterised by nuance and restraint instead of blood and gore.

I know this is old stuff, but I just have to comment on some bits.

Consider the nominees for the 2009 Game of the Year at Spike's Video Game Awards: Uncharted 2: Among Thieves, Left 4 Dead 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, and Batman: Arkham Asylum. Each game is combat-oriented, features male protagonists, and presents a world full of aggressive antagonists in which the player must become a savior. To whom are these experiences most likely to appeal?

Bit of an assumption there. If men can enjoy playing female characters, why would not some women enjoy playing male ones? I did hear tell of a Conan-like game that seemed to be secretly more aimed at being enjoyable beefcake for women...
A girl greatly expounding on her love of MW2, and how awesome she thinks Spoon is, before going online to enjoy some combat. I don't think its unusual. And I'm pretty sure that despite the nerd-chic feel that some people promote, Batman transcends such gender stereotypes.

"If you could kill male prostitutes in the game, then it would be different, but you can only kill female prostitutes,"

You can totally kill them. You just can't find them. =p I'm sure some of those passerbys are male prostitutes, they are just much more discreet, because they are not a gameplay mechanic due to Nicos character driven straightness. And by character driven, I mean, cousin, let us go see big american titties!

...Nico should have turned gay.

Konrad Curze:
Ouch. Busted recycling your own articles. How embarrassing for you.
I am not gonna read the same article again but I do remember thinking it was a load of crap last time.

It's embarrassing to run an article in a "Best of" issue? That's pretty much the point of a Best Of - to rerun articles you might have missed the first time that we think are worth seeing and/or discussing.

This article reminds me of all the guys who say girls either can't play games or only play games like "Farmville" and "Cooking Momma" and therefore aren't actual gamers. Maybe they should all read this article, then re-read it so they actually absorb the information. I think this is a really good article, but I'm afraid that many of the male readers won't be able to come to terms with the information, because it deals with deep-seated phobias that they can't admit they have. It reminds me of the term "doublethink", from George Orwell's 1984. They don't want to admit to having these fears, so they forget they have them. I think society would benefit from having a little bit more feminism injected into it. Not hardcore feminism, but more being in tune with your feelings, being able and willing to talk to someone about your problems, and not being afraid to show care and understanding, especially if you're a guy. And for girls, we should stop taking offence at everything guys say about us, and remember: it's been scientifically proven that girls mature faster than guys. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a fact.

girl_in_background:
This article reminds me...
...And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a fact.

Completely agree with you. Reading the comments on here i can see alot of anxiety.
The fear of personal feminasation is very strong in our society. Men are very
afraid to have female attributes or to sympathise with women. this leads to overreacted
machismo defense mechanisms.

The gameindustry is a extention of our culture and as such you can see developments in
it that mirror the rest of society. The western culture is a male oriented culture (like most other cultures)
Because of this leaders/protagonists are mostly male and females have the secondary roles,
such as the "trophy"/"motivation" role and the "sex" role. (sometimes the nurture role)
Examples of these roles are in almost any game. Spanning from Mario to Gears of War, Xbox
to Wii. But this not a problem within the game-industry but a problem in our culture.

I am so bored of hearing the big kerfuffle about female gamers! Jesus H. Christ what's the big deal? I'm female, I'm a gamer and I fucking hate Farmville. How women are portrayed in video games neither interests nor bothers me. I'm sure lots of other females who console or PC game feel the same way.

Seriously though the constant hoo-haa about female gamers is about as interesting as writing an article about female soldiers. They are soldiers with anatomical differences. That's bloody well it so get over it already, yeesh.

This was one of the worst articles ever written by the escapist imo and the comments from the original sympathized....

how the hell did it make it into "the best of...."?

"Uncharted 2: Among Thieves, Left 4 Dead 2, Assassin's Creed 2, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, and Batman: Arkham Asylum.

To whom are these experiences most likely to appeal?"

I'm a girl and I love every single one of these games and I doubt I'm the only one. We're not little frail creatures that can't handle "aggressive antagonists".

After reading that article the first time I actually bought The Wimp Factor and read it. The psychological parts were more interesting than the politics, and there was a lot of stretching going on. I can't remember any examples right now, but even I (as a feminist who eats this shit up) thought that some of the claims the author made were a bit out there. Not a bad read, but I don't know if it's the most reliable source.

Reading far too much into far to speculative a nature of things. Sometimes a again is just a gun and not a penis extension, this desire to symbolise everything is pointless. I have no fear of vaginas, I dont find my masculinity threatened by powerful women, I have no qualms about admitting a female can be my equal or my superior. I disagree whole heartedly tha the industry is skewed in favour of some Freudian display of superiority over the fairer sex.

Nico couldnt beat male hookers because Nico wasnt gay. The player may have been a gay man or a woman, doesnt change the fact that Nico Bellic wasnt gay and had no business with male hookers. Dom killed his wife as an act of mercy not of convienience, Really it goes on and on. The last game I can remember that truly fit the bill was Duke Nukem, and we have all grown beyond the Duke mythos.

I sit down to game at night its to relieve stress and have a few laughs chatting to friends. If we are all toting penis extensions at each other what does that say about the online community?

In Gears of War 2, Dom kills his wife in an alien prison because she would be a burden.

Stopped reading right here. C'mon, really? That's why you think he killed her? That Dom went through all of that searching just to go, "Derp, she'd be too difficult to drag along, gunna shoot 'er, derp derp!" That kind of heartlessness is completely out of synch with how he really acted. Watch that scene again. When Dom's wife steps out of that sarcophagus thing she's emaciated, unresponsive, scarred, and likely dying. HE SHOT HER AS AN ACT OF MERCY.

Johkmil:
Still an excellent article. The ongoing, adolescent machoism in videogames is one of the major obstacles to overcome in the struggle to make games become art.

Bealzibob:
I was sick of this arguement when it was first published and I'm still sick of it.

I was gunna make a big point here but it was stupid...

So anyway, On the point about GOW2 for example. The reason Dom' wife was given a measly cut-scene I think you'll find is not some deep seeded fear of emotions and love but the flow of the story. Dom's wife was set up as some a goal to acheive, basically a princess to be rescued from a castle (Thats not an obvious masculine idea... Whose side am I on). So when we actually got to her, deep in the castle we were leading up to a finale which gameplay wise is going to be fast pace,enemy heavy and difficult. Having to do a escort mission in the middle of that would of been both fustrating and pace destroying. So that descision is more due to gameplay than story.

Eh, vaginas are pretty scary, soul-eating things but at least they arn't violent, pulsing rods that you stab into poor innocent victims in a act of power, control and anger.

We are many who would like to know why you are sick of this argument. To condemn the discussion or the opponent's views without any points or facts are simply an attempt to make the opponent seem stupid, a desperate measure to be used when one has no real chance to win the debate.

For the GOW2 thing, this is an excellent example of how the developer believes us all to be immature adolescents with machoistic fantasies, and them being completely correct about it.
Dom's wife's death is the sacrifice of story for satisfying the whims of impatient gamers. With proper storywork, an escort mission would have been the correct, justified, heroic and manly thing to have. Instead, they take the fast and macho way out, killing her as an escort mission would have been a burden to us.
A crime against the hope that games, someday, will become proper art, instead of just a craft.
For the difference between manly and macho see Yatzee's definition: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/7597-Extra-Punctuation-Male-Protagonists

Article:
For many men, masculinity is a hard-won yet precarious and brittle psychological achievement that must be constantly proven and defended, (...) this fantasy of being under constant siege by a multitude of external feminizing forces is really an unconscious defense that is employed to keep out of mind something even more disturbing - an identification with women.

I personally know several of these; males that seem to have a strong fear of their manhood falling off if they identify with anything even remotely feminine.

I feel that spending precious time to make solid and good arguments is just stupid when the matter in question doesn't deserve it. It just makes the opponent seem less stupid.I mean really, you expect the average Joe who reads this to put as much time and effort into their arguments as the writer put into his article? Granted, I don't really know exactly what you guys are talking about, but I'm just saying...

This article was flawed in many ways. The examples of games are horrible. Really, like someone else said, it's not hard to find evidence to support your hyphotesis if that's what you want to do. I get the strong feeling that finding out the hard, objective truth about this matter was never the intention, and in my opinion, that is quite apparent.

I mean really, you bring GTA as an example to support certain claims, and use your own experience as some sort of anectdotal evidence.. Cool story bro, but who cares? If the first thing you did was to kill a man, would anyone start talking about dickophobia? I seriously doubt that.

But discussion like this are on the forefront of today's society, and they are ridiculously one-sided. Trying to balance it out just makes you look like a stubborn nay-sayer and someone who hides from the truth, not to mention a misogynist or chauvinistic pig. Not saying this is your fault, I just quoted you and now I got carried away...

But I digress. This article never convinced me as trying enough to be objective. I feel the message was the usual equality-talk that has gone so far that it now starts affecting things which can't provide a solid ground for a valid discussion of the kind.

And what the hell, really, Dom killing his wife was the most emotionally touching and sad moment in the game. He killed her out of mercy in the story, she was like a vegetable. Dom was very emotional about it, and so was I as a player. How does that support what you're saying here? I guess by ignoring it and swiping it under the rug.

And GTA? Really? You do what you feel like in that game. If you felt like killing a chick, hey, that's your problem. Personally, I only killed fatties. What does that mean? How do you blow that out of proportion? What does that prove? Fatman-o-phobia? There were no fat hookers either that I remember. OH MY GOD!

ShadowKirby:

JoeCool385:

"Our secular culture produces all kinds of fear, including fear of the female anatomy."

I literally lol'd at this and had to stop reading for a minute to regain my composure. Our secular culture does not, in any way, shape, or form, "fear" female anatomy. Quite the opposite, actually, to the point that it's hard to get away from it.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/5/7/

You are confusing culture with individuals. Individuals don't fear the female anatomy but let's just look at television. You can show some pretty violent stuff on tv but the second someone shows a boob, you get social groups (not individual members of the society, but groups) that are up in arms.

hanako:

Which is scarier to find when you walk into a room, a sword hovering there whose menace is obvious, or a dark hole whose menace is completely unknown?

Nice question.

You're saying they wouldn't react even wilder about dicks? I've seen plenty of boobs on TV and in movies and games. Where are the dicks? WHERE ARE THE MALE SEX ORGANS?!

*EDIT*
Also, your point is that instead of thinking we are much too violent in our society, everything else that is currently considered tabo should be lifted to the same level?

Pfff... it is WAY more fun to decapitate the hookers with the samurai sword :P

Joking aside, a really interesting article. Very thought provoking. I think the definition of what it is to be a man in the modern world needs some serious examination. It's too easy to think of being a walking murder machine as the masculine ideal, and, well, it's a little childish, isn't it?
Guess that's the problem right there too.

Either way, it's something for all of us to think about.

Personally, I get really irritated whenever cultured and civilised behaviour is discussed in purely feminine terms.

Just because I happen to appreciate poetry, or find a work of art moving does not mean that I am somehow connecting with a fictional "feminine side".
I just don't buy it. If a girl likes cars, does that mean she has a masculine side?

Narrow definitions really bug me.
Now, gender differences are unavoidable, or so far as I can tell, but I am extremely wary of anyone who insists that the masculine must equal physical prowess at every juncture, or equate to destruction in some form.

Absolute bollocks if you ask me.

Thanks for the article, though! Really enjoyed it.

SonicWaffle:
SNIP

I think the author has a point. Take a look at Bayonetta; supposedly a game with a strong female protagonist, which doesn't reflect the vaginophobia idea. On the other hand, she dresses like a hooker, the developers bragged about the amount of time they spent making her arse move realistically, and she has a tendency to get naked. Can you see Marcus from GoW or Master Chief doing that?

This reminds me about the article that talked about how Japanese game developers for DOA placed a lot of effort in "jiggle physics". Clearly, Bayonetta is America's answer to Japan's opening shot in this technological race.

We like big butts...in America!

Susan Arendt:

Konrad Curze:
Ouch. Busted recycling your own articles. How embarrassing for you.
I am not gonna read the same article again but I do remember thinking it was a load of crap last time.

It's embarrassing to run an article in a "Best of" issue? That's pretty much the point of a Best Of - to rerun articles you might have missed the first time that we think are worth seeing and/or discussing.

Susie and Escapist crew, you guys should maybe warn this is a repeat article, maybe on the topic's first post, to stop people from saying you were busted repeating old articles and getting warm fuzzies over it. I absolutely must not allow people to get warm fuzzies whithout my consent.

I did think this article wasn't very good when it first came out, but I remember a more recent one that was even worse and had more or less the same point, so it's realitively better, because the overall scale has been shifted downwards. Yay!

Also, I had promised to ask Ryan North to use the word 'vaginophobia' on a comic and forgot. I can never forgive myself.

I remember the first time I played Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. After the opening cut scene, I stepped into the polygonal metropolis and saw a woman in a bikini across the street. I approached her, as if by instinct, and then proceeded to beat her to death. I was simultaneously delighted and horrified that I could do such a thing in a videogame. Somewhere inside, I felt that old adolescent insecurity stirring inside me, the seed from which my delusional "honey magnet" persona had sprung. "It's still there," I thought.

I think this article says far more about you than it does about us. A guy who starts from being dumped and leads through to beating up a woman.

Then I moved on to the real business of killing immigrant gangbangers and stealing their cocaine.

Which is, of course, so much better...apart from that's not what you do in GTA:VC.

Bottom Line: There's a lot of blame in this article, and from the writing style, a lot is aiming for the wrong person. Simply saying that games that sell mostly to adolescent teen boys have a lot of things that APPEAL to adolescent boys (like half-naked women, big guns etc.) isn't really vaginophobia. More like phallophobia...or more accurately, fear of both becoming an adult and not being able to become an adult.

Men's entire trip into adulthood has been battered down to "turn your head and cough", due to it being "unsuitable". So what do you really expect from scared teens that have their hormones going wild? Their "right of manhood" is killing the largest predator and proving their fertility.

Women, sad to say, are targets of one or the other. Because teens don't have the ability to comprehend, or control, what's actually happening. Praise be they soon learn.

How women feel about this? I couldn't say. I'm not one. But what about the woman (in GTA) that picks up a hooker, pays her and then beats the money back out of her? I know at least one of them.

To qoute my religions veiws on this, Gender is a blight on culture. It serves no purpose but the betterment of one group over others. It is the wall that says we must be one and not the other. It must be irradicated.

i just read this for the first time, and saying that the people that play Left 4 Dead 1&2, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 1&2 doesnt make a lot of sense, most of the time your playing with or against someone that is little more than a kid, just thought i would put that out there, the other games mentioned probably have the same issue, mostly kids

I stopped reading when you said Dom killed his wife because she would be a burden.

If the writer of this article is so deliberately misreading plot elements in order to justify this flamebait disguised as an article, then I have no interest in reading it.
I don't think there is a fear of feminine influence in gaming, there's just a lack of feminine influence in gaming. This has improved over time and will continue to trend upwards, I'm sure.
It's only in recent years we've got an equivalent amount women playing games as to men, why would we have abundant representation among development teams already. What percentage of Congressman or Senators are female? Maybe the government is afraid of women too?

Mortagog:

Zachary Amaranth:

Mortagog:
I don't understand how people can obsess over sexes and sexual stereotypes and insecurities and blahablahoblahargh. I really couldn't care less about "vaginophobia" in games.

The latter is rather indicative of the former.

Why yes, you are right. I am all but certain that there is a correlation between the two!

Yeah, sorry, I misread the first part as "I understand how people can..." Which made your post seem contradictory.

But I agree with you. I don't understand why people are so uppity about sexism. I mean, you have a culture which has traditionally treated one set of people differently based on their genitals for most of recorded history, and people dare complain about how cultural indications still demonstrate that. The nerve of some people!

viranimus:
Ok, seriously, I rarely post here, but I cannot even begin to resist the urge.

First off the author is a male, presenting the concept that our gaming culture is representative of fears of women, manifest by damsels in distress as it relates to dominion and over sized machismo be it guns, utilities, attitudes, ect

I think we can at least agree, that games do typify male roles in a more dominant way, Although Last I checked video games are a form of recreation, relaxation, escapisim and fantasy. If there is a fear of women present It would have to lie in not fear of women, but more accurately a fear of a world without masculinity.

Perhaps that is the appeal, after turning on the tv to see countless emotional dramas, reality tv that banks on pointless emotional drama, then commercials come on featuring a movie marketed to young males, featuring the lead role to an effeminite mouseketeer like say Shia Labouf followed by Axe fragrances that insist that if you just feminize yourself, women will like you more. Then get sick of seeing it and change the channel to see pervasive anime, which Otaku culture frequently presents men as nothing more than childish boys who have nothing resembling a spine and are typically subserviant to females desparately begging for their affection. I literally could go on for a lifetime.

Did the author or the cited speaker ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, men get tired of seeing men turned into metrosexuals and effeminate lady boys and seeings as you basically cant do anything in this world that hasnt been hyper feminized over the last 50+ years, Dont belive me? Take a stroll through your local mall, find a Ambercrombie and fitch, Areopostle, Rue 21, Hot topic, Hell basically any retailer gearing for the 15-25 demographic and note that the sections selling mens clothes basically look identical in cuts, designs, colors as the sections selling female garments

Can you really blame a guy to have to turn to video games for anything even remotely construed as representing masculine qualities?

Seriously, its hillarious that the author out and out disclaims him self at the begining by projecting his own subconscious insecurities. All I can say to all of this is just because your too afraid to be a man, dont assume there is something wrong with a culture that allows and celebrates what has worked for the species for 200,000+ years, 3500 years, or since last thursday dependent upon which book you choose to read.

This man blew my f-ing mind :D
/applaud

Not saying all men are this way, but I find that it's the men that spend the most time going on about how manly they are that tend to be the most pathetic, especially at talking to women.

Zachary Amaranth:

Mortagog:

Zachary Amaranth:

Mortagog:
I don't understand how people can obsess over sexes and sexual stereotypes and insecurities and blahablahoblahargh. I really couldn't care less about "vaginophobia" in games.

The latter is rather indicative of the former.

Why yes, you are right. I am all but certain that there is a correlation between the two!

Yeah, sorry, I misread the first part as "I understand how people can..." Which made your post seem contradictory.

But I agree with you. I don't understand why people are so uppity about sexism. I mean, you have a culture which has traditionally treated one set of people differently based on their genitals for most of recorded history, and people dare complain about how cultural indications still demonstrate that. The nerve of some people!

They're not so much complaining as they are obsessing over it to the point of confusing "lack of vaginae" with "fear of vaginae" and "finding" proof of their theories in the most laughable of places. It's not that bad. Give it a rest already. This is not 1960. Argh!

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