On Arty 2D Platformers

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I can't believe Yahtzee didn't mention Eversion. :(

I remember playing Jax & Dexter? And that was definitely a 3D platformer, and not a bad one. Kept a lot of the same elements as 2D platformer. My all time favourite was FLASHBACK, not that was really like most platformers but I'm still really impressed how many ideas they managed to squeeze into that game. Shame the sequel FADE TO BLACK as a launch title for PS1 was so poor.

Tinneh:

carpathic:
I cannot say I have ever really enjoyed 2 d platformers...mostly because I am just not that good at timing things out. I never owned a nintendo.

Now a 2d flightsim....j/k

Here you go.

I liked the article, Mr. Croshaw, but you should have taken a look at I Wanna Be the Guy!, sure it's not artsy, but it's fun!

Thanks, that actually looks pretty awesome!

Lord_Seth:
I can't believe Yahtzee didn't mention Eversion. :(

Yeah, I was expecting him to mention Eversion as well, it fits the 'arty 2D platformer' bill perfectly.

SCREE!

all cultures that evolve into civilisations based on leisure time activities and spending money are destined to failure, it happened to all but China(and it looks chinas's the next in less than century) and eventually no old empire can last. Euroamerican civilisation cannot sustain itself in the existing format for another century without either transfornig into some new society(I said this just cause I'm optimist) or vanishing like Roman empire.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
the easiest way to gain instant acclaim in indie game development is to make an arty 2D platformer about a very small character with a big head exploring a huge, scary world.

I have a suggestion.

image

Yep, there's definitely nothing more appealing than a fun 2D platformer. Doesn't matter how many years pass, I can still go back and play Super Mario World or Sonic.

summerof2010:

Mangue Surfer:

summerof2010:
Did he say platforming doesn't translate well to 3D movement? What about the team ICO games? Or Assassin's Creed?

I never played ICO but, in Assassin's Creed the platforming works like this: hold a button, press forward and the game does the rest for you. I don't know if the automation counts as a good translation.

I know there're good 3D platforming games like Prince of Persia but, even then, some times the prospect doesn't help.

I don't know, most 2D platformers are limited to 2 button controls. Jump and "interact." The latter may be interpreted many ways, from picking stuff up to talking to NPCs to operating a weapon, but I'd say it rarely contributes to the platforming itself except to "activate switch," with the occasional exception, like LBP's grab button (it's 2D enough! :P ). The simplicity of AC's control scheme doesn't disqualify it from being classified as a platformer. In fact, by the two button standard, it's very complex.

Also, I don't understand your last statement. What prospect doesn't help what?

The sonic's game in the Genesis era had only one function. Still you have a lot of timing and precise jumps. I'm not saying a game needs it to be good. I just saying this is the "vision" many have of plataformers and the introtuction of the third dimension make part of this lost in translation. Even in the most successful 3D plataformers. What you call plataforming parts in Assassins Creed a lot of people prefer call, parkour parts. Basically because doesn't feel like the other games we used to call plataformers.

Ah the 2D platformer games will always be fun for anyone unless we gain knowledge on virtual reality. But most classics were platformers that the gamer generation grew up with like sonic or mario or metal slug. There fun, easy to make, and usually are long enough for you not to get bored after bea.ting it with in a hour. 2D platformer games will remain classic through time.
TIMBAP_AJR

My first ever platformers ....hmm ....Dave, Prehistoric 2, those were the days! Pre 2 at least still infuriates me to this day for the obnoxious secret stashes which made u hammer the ground every 2 steps like you were a mentally challenged 5 year old with teritorial issues.

You know what's ironic? Yahtzee's games were one of the primary inspirations for Eversion.

And indie devs like platformers because they're easy to make. If FPSes were easy to make you'd see arty FPSes.

Mangue Surfer:

summerof2010:

Mangue Surfer:

summerof2010:
Did he say platforming doesn't translate well to 3D movement? What about the team ICO games? Or Assassin's Creed?

I never played ICO but, in Assassin's Creed the platforming works like this: hold a button, press forward and the game does the rest for you. I don't know if the automation counts as a good translation.

I know there're good 3D platforming games like Prince of Persia but, even then, some times the prospect doesn't help.

I don't know, most 2D platformers are limited to 2 button controls. Jump and "interact." The latter may be interpreted many ways, from picking stuff up to talking to NPCs to operating a weapon, but I'd say it rarely contributes to the platforming itself except to "activate switch," with the occasional exception, like LBP's grab button (it's 2D enough! :P ). The simplicity of AC's control scheme doesn't disqualify it from being classified as a platformer. In fact, by the two button standard, it's very complex.

Also, I don't understand your last statement. What prospect doesn't help what?

The sonic's game in the Genesis era had only one function. Still you have a lot of timing and precise jumps. I'm not saying a game needs it to be good. I just saying this is the "vision" many have of plataformers and the introtuction of the third dimension make part of this lost in translation. Even in the most successful 3D plataformers. What you call plataforming parts in Assassins Creed a lot of people prefer call, parkour parts. Basically because doesn't feel like the other games we used to call plataformers.

I guess that sort of fits with what m64 was talking about. "Classic" platforming, which revolves around precisely timed and positioned jumps, often set to a time limit, doesn't fit well in the 3D model. Which makes 3D platforming, which is more about solving puzzles that just also have you climbing all over them, almost like a completely different genre.

Well you can't limit yourselves to just indie developers...sort of. A Boy and his Blob, while a re-imagining, is a very good platformer and I find it very superior to David Crane's creation.

Katana314:
I played about halfway through Cave Story. Pretty quickly, the depressing nature of it got to me, especially when a few glances at an online guide revealed that I probably wasn't going to get the good ending. The reasoning? For all things, DECIDING TO TALK TO A CERTAIN NPC AS YOU PASS HIM BY.
It came to the point when so many characters had been killed off, I decided that "saving the world" was a failed task, and so I left the game. Killing the cared-about characters is a good way of giving emotional drive, but when there's not many positives left, there's not much drive left.

Why so serious?!
I can't believe you get depressed so easily! And to think that some people don't accept the Good Ending as "canon" because they consider the Normal one more appropriate... It isn't really a bad ending, just not the best one.

Lord_Seth:
I can't believe Yahtzee didn't mention Eversion. :(

I can. Believe it, that is.
But seriously, Yahtzee, if you didn't play that one -- GO PLAY, NOW. It's right up your alley.

Allan Foe:

Katana314:
I played about halfway through Cave Story. Pretty quickly, the depressing nature of it got to me, especially when a few glances at an online guide revealed that I probably wasn't going to get the good ending. The reasoning? For all things, DECIDING TO TALK TO A CERTAIN NPC AS YOU PASS HIM BY.
It came to the point when so many characters had been killed off, I decided that "saving the world" was a failed task, and so I left the game. Killing the cared-about characters is a good way of giving emotional drive, but when there's not many positives left, there's not much drive left.

Why so serious?!
I can't believe you get depressed so easily! And to think that some people don't accept the Good Ending as "canon" because they consider the Normal one more appropriate... It isn't really a bad ending, just not the best one.

You're sort of misinterpretting me. It wasn't like this:
"*Sob* I just can't take it! This is so sad!"
More like this:
"Aaaaaand so now that's Curly, Moe, John, Jim, and the whole TreasureHunter's gang. All dead now. Y'know what? Fuck it. Now I suddenly don't care."

Kind of like how you feel in a Left 4 Dead game when the first three guys have been killed by a surprise Hunter attack coming out of the saferoom, and you just feel like screwing around until you get killed.

Katana314:

You're sort of misinterpretting me. It wasn't like this:
"*Sob* I just can't take it! This is so sad!"
More like this:
"Aaaaaand so now that's Curly, Moe, John, Jim, and the whole TreasureHunter's gang. All dead now. Y'know what? Fuck it. Now I suddenly don't care."

Kind of like how you feel in a Left 4 Dead game when the first three guys have been killed by a surprise Hunter attack coming out of the saferoom, and you just feel like screwing around until you get killed.

Well that's a bit difficult for me to understand because out of

characters that die in the normal route you only have time to get attached to With others it's mostly "Hello! *5 seconds* Goodbye!", they were nice minor characters but that's about it. Lots of equivalently (in)significant minor charters survive. Even Team Rocket doesn't bite the dustAnd what about the girl you (may or may not have) slept with? Don't you care about what happens to her, you monster?

...

You could always just start a new run, you know. The requirement of

actually changes gameplay, so it's not like your replays will be absolutely identical.

It is now two o' clock in the morning. I am still playing Shadow of the Colossus. I started playing it for the first time earlier this evening, and I haven't stopped. Thank you for showing me the joys of jumping onto a giant weird bird-thing and stabbing it in the wings until it falls into a lake and drowns. Thank you.

Strike that, four o' clock. I'm beginning to think maybe I should be cursing you and not thanking you.

Yahtzee:
It's also fairly inarguable that platforming doesn't translate well to 3D movement.

I think every single Super Mario 3D-game would disagree? Banjo-Kazooie series? SMG2 is vastly superior to the majority of 2D platformers ever released.

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