Zero Punctuation: Epic Mickey

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Eh, I want to join in on the hate against the game, but something just keeps stopping me like something stopped Oswald from becoming the big star (Yes, here comes someone who LIKED the game)
I will admit the gameplay was way underdone, and the camera gave me headaches. Almost every sidequest forced you to look for stuff in the hardest places and the game made fun of me for ignoring them in the end.
But there was some kid in me the entire time going "oh, I remeber this from WAY back" and "wow, I cant believe oswald ended up getting shafted for Mickey."
There was some werid nostagia I never felt in a game, but it wasnt like in a new version of an old game, but my very childhood.... I dont know... its hard to explain.
Something stops me from hating it, even though it was much less a game but more like art to me.
Also, Why did oswald not end up famous!? Hes like my new favorite disney character....
But anyway, I think Im done opening up.... Back to my jaded hatred of everything!

awesome, I heard about epic mickey's epic failure and was waiting for yahtzee to tear this game a new hole. Great review, as always.

This would have horribly disappointed me had I had any expectations for the game whatsoever, but I noticed it was being made by Disney and therefore would suck ass.

I wish this had come out before my brother got this game for my mom. She's only recently been converted to semi-nerdom and so she doesn't know how to wrestle the camera. She watched me fight the twin owls from Okami while the camera kept bunny jumping the auto-lock between the two and she said just watching made her head hurt.

Casual Shinji:
They should make a game around one of those old WW2 cartoons, where Donald Duck takes on Hitler. Now that would be epic.

Unfortunately, the good old days of controversial Disney are long gone.

I wouldn't call a WW2 propaganda short "controversial".

RJ Dalton:
This would have horribly disappointed me had I had any expectations for the game whatsoever, but I noticed it was being made by Disney and therefore would suck ass.

How does being a Disney product automatically mean it's shit?

dalek sec:

BlueInkAlchemist:
"The air of compromise" indeed. A shame all that potential went to waste. I thought they were going to go for a truly dark Disney story, something worthy of The Black Hole. But no. Had to play it safe.

Cowards.

Pretty much this is how I feel about it, I loved those dark and twisted art designs they had for it all but no.... they had to play it safe. Though I will say he actually tried to review it, I thought that when he heard Mickey he would just smash it with all the grace of a sledgehammer against a glass wall.

It might have actually been interesting enough for me to pick up. This is sad because, while I own a Wii, I only have about three games for it. Yeah, three games. /sigh

A dark re-imagining definitely would've been interesting enough for more people to go along with, but I guess Disney can't be asked to get up off their arse and make something good.

Woho he mentioned Kingdom hearts!

You want the truth? Kingdom Hearts would have been better without Disney characters, they only make it look like an impure Final Fantasy game filled with Disney Channel commercials for infants.

xdiesp:
You want the truth? Kingdom Hearts would have been better without Disney characters, they only make it look like an impure Final Fantasy game filled with Disney Channel commercials for infants.

But Kingdom Hearts is a DISNEY game, that's its appeal, if you take that out then what's left? But at least's your different, normally people want the Final Fantasy characters taken out.

Epic Mickey is a Epic Fail...anyone...? Eh, my humor is wasted on the masses.

I was really hoping this game would be good at least.

Also does anyone know why the third and fourth commenters got put on probation? Not to question the mods or anything, but what did they do wrong?

Carbo:

HentMas:
OH! but thatīs the thing!!!, thats the "BEFORE" Disney, the one that actually treated kids and children like PEOPLE, the NOW Disney is actually more concerned of "what would the parent say??" and have a whole censorship board before them, just so they dont "Traumatize" the kids with movies like (what do you guess??) BAMBI.

Disney WAS edgy and interesting and made you think, but in this world where the people cry in one voice "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" they have to play it safe.

That's the thing though - this game was made in order to reinvigorate Mickey's more mischevious side and rebrand it's market.

Yeah but did it succeed? I mean it can be made to try to do something all it wants but if it fails it should be laughed at for it don't cuddle it.

xdiesp:
You want the truth? Kingdom Hearts would have been better without Disney characters, they only make it look like an impure Final Fantasy game filled with Disney Channel commercials for infants.

Dude that's what makes the game special.

Blitzwing:

But Kingdom Hearts is a DISNEY game, that's its appeal, if you take that out then what's left? But at least's your different, normally people want the Final Fantasy characters taken out.

Yeah I actually wish there were more FF characters, but that they didn't reduce the amount of disney characters.

I think he actually referenced Warren Spector in a double entendre about a "spectre" over the project.

The funny thing about all this talk of theme park mascots is that my best friend just told me a hilarious and horrible story about her father's experience in Disneyland. Her father, an African American went to Disneyland as a young boy in the 70's. It was his dream to meet Mickey in person. When he finally came within feet of the world's most famous mouse, he started pulling on him the guy in the costume shoved him aside and said in the Mickey voice "get away you little nigger." Then welcomed a group of white children to him for photos.

No Disney merchandise was allowed in the house when she was a little girl. How she told it made me almost spill milk out my nose. As terrible a tale it was; to hear that phrase come from Mickey's voice was just priceless. And with all these jokes about child abuse in this episode, her father is an irredeemable child and wife abuser, so anything odd and horrible that occurred to him always made her smile.

Blitzwing:

Casual Shinji:
They should make a game around one of those old WW2 cartoons, where Donald Duck takes on Hitler. Now that would be epic.

Unfortunately, the good old days of controversial Disney are long gone.

I wouldn't call a WW2 propaganda short "controversial".

Well, having Donald Duck say 'sieg heil' and give the nazi salute 20 times in a row isn't something I think you'll see him or any other Disney character do these days.

But maybe controversial is the wrong word. Disney doesn't experiment anymore like they did in the early days. Back then, Disney treated it's animation as an artform that could go beyond anything live-action could ever be, with movies like Fantasia.

Casual Shinji:

Blitzwing:

Casual Shinji:
They should make a game around one of those old WW2 cartoons, where Donald Duck takes on Hitler. Now that would be epic.

Unfortunately, the good old days of controversial Disney are long gone.

I wouldn't call a WW2 propaganda short "controversial".

Well, having Donald Duck say 'sieg heil' and give the nazi salute 20 times in a row isn't something I think you'll see him or any other Disney character do these days.

But maybe controversial is the wrong word. Disney doesn't experiment anymore like they did in the early days. Back then, Disney treated it's animation as an artform that could go beyond anything live-action could ever be, with movies like Fantasia.

Which if I remember was Disney's first great box-office failure so I doubt they're going to try experimenting like that again.

Blitzwing:

Casual Shinji:

Blitzwing:

I wouldn't call a WW2 propaganda short "controversial".

Well, having Donald Duck say 'sieg heil' and give the nazi salute 20 times in a row isn't something I think you'll see him or any other Disney character do these days.

But maybe controversial is the wrong word. Disney doesn't experiment anymore like they did in the early days. Back then, Disney treated it's animation as an artform that could go beyond anything live-action could ever be, with movies like Fantasia.

Which if I remember was Disney's first great box-office failure so I doubt they're going to try experimenting like that again.

Yet, they did it again in 2000 and again with The Little Match Girl.

It's productions like these which show that Disney can really make some extraordinary material that isn't simply made for marketing themepark rides and toys. I know Disney is a business, but in the world of animation and movies in general, it's not good business decisions that we'll foundly remember them for.

Casual Shinji:

Blitzwing:

Casual Shinji:
Well, having Donald Duck say 'sieg heil' and give the nazi salute 20 times in a row isn't something I think you'll see him or any other Disney character do these days.

But maybe controversial is the wrong word. Disney doesn't experiment anymore like they did in the early days. Back then, Disney treated it's animation as an artform that could go beyond anything live-action could ever be, with movies like Fantasia.

Which if I remember was Disney's first great box-office failure so I doubt they're going to try experimenting like that again.

Yet, they did it again in 2000 and again with The Little Match Girl.

Because by then Fantasia had developed a large enough following to cash in on.

It's productions like these which show that Disney can really make some extraordinary material that isn't simply made for marketing themepark rides and toys. I know Disney is a business, but in the world of animation and movies in general, it's not good business decisions that we'll fondly remember them for.

True, but being remembered fondly won't do them much good if they're bankrupt.

Srdjan Tanaskovic:

k-ossuburb:
He said pretty much what I was thinking about this game. I saw the early concept art and though "wow, something decent coming from Disney for once?" The as the years piled on and more information was "leaked" the cracks inevitably began to appear and my over-encompassing cynicism grew ever stronger as more-and-more of the total vapid blandness began to show through those cracks... I'm so tempted to make a simile right about now, but I'm afraid to do so in case I get into trouble for Bogarting Yahtzee's style or something.

.....how can Epic Mickey be and bland be in the same sentence?

Have you seen the gameplay demos? It's so tedious, there really is nothing to it in the slightest; the biggest impression I got from every gameplay demo and "behind the scenes" footage I saw was that this wanted to be something great but couldn't get there in the end because Disney doesn't like their trademarks being messed with. It's the same problem with some of the early racing games that weren't allowed to use licensed cars because the manufacturers didn't want to see their cars smashed into little flaming pieces. What they wanted would've embodied the title of "Epic Mickey" entirely, what they got was "Pointless Cash-in" because Disney wouldn't let them be creative.

I'm not knocking the people who obviously worked hard on this project, I'm knocking the product they were forced into putting out because of some pointless red tape, it's a sad ending to something that seemed so promising to lose all potential because Disney were too heavy-handed with how they manage their brand.

I bet the result would be entirely different if Dreamworks or Warner Brothers were the subject matter, they don't suffer from the same squeaky-clean, holier-than-thou image problem that Disney does.

LockandKey:
Yeah but did it succeed? I mean it can be made to try to do something all it wants but if it fails it should be laughed at for it don't cuddle it.

It's the one thing that the game does right if anything at all. The moral-choice system isn't your standard good/evil affair. It's essentially "how much of a jerk are you?", and it changes everything in the long-run.

The concept, design and story of this game is incredibly compelling. I'd recommend the game to people if only just for that. It's a minor shame that everyone won't do it though, cause it's herp Disney and everyone else wanks off to Kingdom Hearts without acknowledging the fact that Disney characters used to be interesting at one point in time. It's like Sonic; no one thinks he'd get up the gutter after his decline but while his recent efforts have shown some sight of increase in quality, he still carries a stigma on his shoulders.

k-ossuburb:
Have you seen the gameplay demos? It's so tedious, there really is nothing to it in the slightest; the biggest impression I got from every gameplay demo and "behind the scenes" footage I saw was that this wanted to be something great but couldn't get there in the end because Disney doesn't like their trademarks being messed with. It's the same problem with some of the early racing games that weren't allowed to use licensed cars because the manufacturers didn't want to see their cars smashed into little flaming pieces. What they wanted would've embodied the title of "Epic Mickey" entirely, what they got was "Pointless Cash-in" because Disney wouldn't let them be creative.

I'm not knocking the people who obviously worked hard on this project, I'm knocking the product they were forced into putting out because of some pointless red tape, it's a sad ending to something that seemed so promising to lose all potential because Disney were too heavy-handed with how they manage their brand.

I bet the result would be entirely different if Dreamworks or Warner Brothers were the subject matter, they don't suffer from the same squeaky-clean, holier-than-thou image problem that Disney does.

If you think Spector intended for the game to be something else right at the starting line and was pressured by Disney to alter his vision of the game, you're just fooling yourself here. Play the game before you knock it as if you know everything it has to offer.

The Youth Counselor:
I think he actually referenced Warren Spector in a double entendre about a "spectre" over the project.

The funny thing about all this talk of theme park mascots is that my best friend just told me a hilarious and horrible story about her father's experience in Disneyland. Her father, an African American went to Disneyland as a young boy in the 70's. It was his dream to meet Mickey in person. When he finally came within feet of the world's most famous mouse, he started pulling on him the guy in the costume shoved him aside and said in the Mickey voice "get away you little nigger." Then welcomed a group of white children to him for photos.

No Disney merchandise was allowed in the house when she was a little girl. How she told it made me almost spill milk out my nose. As terrible a tale it was; to hear that phrase come from Mickey's voice was just priceless. And with all these jokes about child abuse in this episode, her father is an irredeemable child and wife abuser, so anything odd and horrible that occurred to him always made her smile.

{EDIT: Revised to reflect modified quote}

I'm not going to say that didn't happen. I wasn't there and I have no sense of the reliability of your friend's parent and racism was certainly an issue in this part of the country at that point in time by many, many accounts. In addition, no matter how much employees are screened at a given job, there's always the chance that a person will go off the deep end before someone catches on.

What I will say is that there's a longstanding policy for the mascots at Disneyland not to speak that is reinforced at several levels of the company: that's basic knowledge that's taught to intro. to psych. students at several colleges across the country and reinforced by other points (such as the fact that women are frequently employed as male mascots, such as being the exclusive Chip N' Dale).

Regardless of the slight and the racism involved, if the event did happen as described and the employee in the suit was caught in the act by their superior (then as now), that would be the end of their time at the Magic Kingdom for breaching such a firm policy at all. Such racism does not seem symptomatic of the company or the theme park at that time.

Srdjan Tanaskovic:
Strange I thought that Yahtzee would praise the story (but he didn't talk much about it either). Oh well maybe we will get more info on Extra Punctuation

and I still dont see how this game isn't dark and edgy

It's pretty dark at times.
You decide if several people get thinned (die) or ar painted (reborn or indictrinated to be your friend).
If you miss a quest, it affects the ending of your game and I don't know about you but I got a fairly bad ending >.<
Aside from the backtracking constantly and the numerous quests with trading stuff, I quite enjoyed epic Mickey.
I wasn't disappointed, but it's definately for everyone.
-Tabs<3-

{EDIT: Not much left to write about since the user already clarified their post in response to my question. :)}

Daedalus1942:
...
Aside from the backtracking constantly and the numerous quests with trading stuff, I quite enjoyed epic Mickey.
I wasn't disappointed, but it's definately for everyone.
-Tabs<3-

Just checking: "definately for everyone" or "definitely not for everyone"? Either way, glad the game gave you something you enjoyed.

Lordofthesuplex:
Also, half of this game's changes are the result of Warren Spector more than Disney. Just go back and check a few of those old interviews he did. Surprised Yahtzee didn't mention that this was by Spector in this review at all. You'd think after trashing Brutal Legend and Tim Schaeffer, he'd be all over insulting another game designer unfairly.

You do realise that Yahtzee likes Tim Schafer, right? Please do your research.

I'm actually surprised that he played Kingdom Hearts. You'd think he'd stay as far as humanly possible away from what appeared to be a money-grabbing scheme by crossing over the two biggest franchises in all existence.

Some Random Tosser:

You do realise that Yahtzee likes Tim Schafer, right? Please do your research.

Oh I'm aware of that alright. That's still no reason not to criticize Spector for messing up as Yahtzee likes to think he did. Especially when Yahtzee's admitted to liking Spector's past games in previous videos.

Translated:

Daedalus1942:
...
Aside from the backtracking constantly and the numerous quests with trading stuff, I quite enjoyed epic Mickey.
I wasn't disappointed, but it's definately for everyone.
-Tabs<3-

Just checking: "definately for everyone" or "definitely not for everyone"? Either way, glad the game gave you something you enjoyed.

Yeah... I'm tired. It supposed to be "not for everyone" Sorry ..<
-Tabs<3-

Not all mascots are pedophiles. Usually they are just poor desperate teenagers.

I've heard elsewhere that this game falls short of expectations. Still would like to play it though.

Oh I know GameMasterAnthony.
I simply meant my personal peeves turned me off to the game, because of certain characters. I did eventually finish it, but... I couldn't take Mickey seriously. :(
Normally that stuff doesn't get to me, and I'll at least work my way through a series before I write it off (like Halo, urg.) And I love me a Disney movie (ie PoTC1, Nightmare Before Christmas) But even as a kid I really disliked Mickey.
It's very weird. I guess I just don't like rodents very much?

mitchell271:
First! Do not judge me, I never get it.

marioman360:
Definitely not what I expected.

Brombaq:
I really hope I enjoy this review
Didn't really enjoyed the last one

Why were we put on probation for these?
Haters gonna hate...

Translated:
Having addressed the main point of your last post, I hope you won't mind if I try to clarify another part that was less clear to me.

The Youth Counselor:
And with all these jokes about child abuse in this episode, the man is an irredeemable child and wife abuser.

I hope it won't muddy my point to use a short quotation, but in all honesty the pronoun and logic are both unclear here. First, you reference "the man" (which it seems could refer to either your friend's father or the actor mentioned in the Mickey suit or Yahtzee himself) without clarifying the person the pronoun references and then you mention "wife abuser" without having mentioned any wife in the rest of your post.

Since you're calling someone an "irredeemable child and wife abuser", this seems important to me. It's a label I take seriously, having reached out to a shelter in my high school days and counseled several victims of domestic abuse, incest and rape in my personal life for the last decade and helped one of them mount a legal defense in a self-defense case. So unless it's a reference to your friend's father (which I could see you having the information to use properly), it's highly inflammatory hyperbole and could be seen as a serious defamation of character (in which case the moderators could become the most trivial of the possible concerns). And it's current form, even if that's what your trying to say, it's open to a lot of other interpretations.

As such, I'd recommend either clarifying or otherwise editing the original comment. If you do so, feel free to message me so I can edit my own post to reflect the clarity of your revised statements.

Sorry if that was muddled. I was referring to my friend's father who is a real piece of work. And it's nice to see another counselor here, (although I worked with just children in an elementary school and some teens.)

Mydnyght:

Mattteus:
I'll give you my accordion for a durian.

Uh, that durian's coming from a guy jerking off in front of a webcam. You sure you still want it?

Also... THE GRINS! o__O

I take it you've never had a durian before. They're supposedly an aphrodisiac but they're nearly an ipecac for most people born outside of southeast Asia. I doubt any jerkin' happened around it -_-

mitchell271:

mitchell271:
First! Do not judge me, I never get it.

marioman360:
Definitely not what I expected.

Brombaq:
I really hope I enjoy this review
Didn't really enjoyed the last one

Why were we put on probation for these?
Haters gonna hate...

Rule #1: NEVER, even if it's the one time it happens to you, EVER say "first" as your comment. What are you? some preschool kid who's trying to prove to the teacher you won a race?

Mattteus:

mitchell271:

mitchell271:
First! Do not judge me, I never get it.

marioman360:
Definitely not what I expected.

Brombaq:
I really hope I enjoy this review
Didn't really enjoyed the last one

Why were we put on probation for these?
Haters gonna hate...

Rule #1: NEVER, even if it's the one time it happens to you, EVER say "first" as your comment. What are you? some preschool kid who's trying to prove to the teacher you won a race?

Fine I'll give you my quote, but what about the others? They simply said that they were not expecting what Yahztee put out this week. So, why are they being punished for expressing an earnest opinion?

And I said first because I have never gotten the first comment and because the site I frequent the most, screwattack.com (a great gaming site, not porn), has a very friendly community who make jokes when that comment is made like "Oh NOES you awoke the First Monster!!!" and add a funny picture. I have become used to civil and friendly banter on the internet, something most sites cannot claim they have.

Carbo:
I'm a tad disappointed with this review, mostly cause I can't help but feel that Yahtzee sort of missed the point of the game and missed out a good deal of the game's core aspects. While I can see the game definitely isn't for everyone, I was hoping for some more in depth talk about the moral-choice stuff which I feel Warren Spector got down pretty damn well and interpreted them greatly into the game's concept, design and story.

Oh well, looking forward for the Extra Punctuation article.

You don't know what he thinks about moral choice systems? He thinks they are a waste of time as they don't mimic human emotions well and there is a tendency to always choose the option that gives you more stuff.

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