The Big Picture: Correctitude Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 . . . 22 NEXT | |
I completely agree and wish to add the great Robert E. Howard's name to the list of authors that would be positively RUINED by making their work PC. | |
This is true...considering women will call sexual harassment if a guy looks at them when they're wearing a shirt with half their tits popping out and a miniskirt low enough to show off their butt. As to the video bob...love it...you make an extremely valid and poignant point...after all political correctness in and of itself is a hard to define notion. | |
A bit weak man......... PC is used by the jerks not by the people who want to tell the jerks what reality is. Politically correct is the ability to be offended by anything.... Also Jeff Dummham is funny.... you are not...least not all the time. ^_~ | |
Nick Fury is the leader of S.H.I.E.L.D. it is made out of hundreds of agents. They could have easily given him a subordinate/second in command who just happens to be black. Yes turning Nick Fury black was a way to increase diversity but I doubt that he will ever be white again. Like I said just take the Green Lantern example, people got upset that the titular character was being played by Ryan Renolds because the only previous experience they had with a Green Lantern was with John Stewart in the Justice League cartoons. | |
Sure they are. Especially when they're appearing in a comic book movie, say, where they're being only loosely borrowed and interpreted as characters, because new fictions structure their mythology as they see fit. If a Heimdall appearing in something claiming to be an adaptation of the Prose Edda showed up looking a modern London chav, you'd have more of a point. When Norse gods show up in a Neil Gaiman novel looking nothing like their traditional selves, it has no bearing on anything; their adaptation to the new setting is organically part of the story. Bitching about the ethnic nuance of characters in a bloody Marvel Comics movie adaptation simply means you've become everything you once hated and thought was stupid and ill-informed about the worst excesses of "PC." It's nothing more elegant or more interesting than that.
And I don't believe even you know what "PC vaccuum" means. Deities were routinely adapted in the ancient world to look like people in the places they were being worshiped. This had zilch to do with their gold teeth or family trees. Zero. Nothing. The ancients did not give a shit about the two matching up, they were not concerned about "realism." And of course they weren't concerned about the threat the status of Norse gods as symbols of white racialism either, because that didn't exist then but is the driving force behind most of this bullshit now. Not yours of course. I'm sure your bullshit is totally different. | |
Hmm...makes me reconsider some things. Well said, Bob. | |
I don't think they were really taking such a stand... they just didn't fully understand what was happening until it had blown up. And Mike -- anxiety disorders and gamer tunnel-vision and all -- is obviously about the worst choice ever for dealing with the public in cases like this, they obviously need some sort of procedure or PR guy or something. | |
There is another thing as well. I do agree with you most of the time Bob but in this you seem to be saying that making fun of ANY kind of racial or religious issue is a low blow. But back in your Escape to the Movies review of Four Lions, didn't you praise what they had achieve by umm... DOING EXACTLY THAT? | |
I don't want to cause a war, but I still maintain that there are such things as funny racist/sexist jokes, for every race and each gender. True, most of them are just dumb, but I've heard some that not only made me laugh, but people of the race/gender that they were supposedly offending. If someone was offended, I wouldn't call them PC, but I would call them over sensitive. How can we ever live in a society of equality if we're all too scared of making such jokes for fear of offending or backlash? I'm not trying to be some hero, I know that the jokes are rude and maybe that makes me a dick, but whatever. I do hate it when pricks use the whole "you're just PC" defense though. | |
This would be the second video of the series that's caused me to "raise an eyebrow" intellectually, as in doubt the credibility of the statements being made. While you bring up the point of shielding offensive statements with "hurr durr PC police", you fail to bring up the point of equally offensive statements against straight white males. For sample reference, just imagine a few stereotypes of men you can draw from this article I found from a quick google search for "men facts" http://ifaq.wap.org/sex/50factsaboutmen.html EDIT2: Also, there's a couple of female stereotypes as well. But it doesn't take much thought to figure that out. | |
Awwww. Will nobody think of the straight white males? They've had it so darned rough. Let me see if I can find a violin small enough. Might take a minute... | |
...And this is the last one of these I'm watching. Bob's self-righteous acid spitting is just too much to take at points. People are too sensitive now to laugh at themselves anymore. Bob is bigoted against bigots. | |
Pretty much, political correctness is pretty much the enforcement of left wing philsophy throughout society. The idea that we have to tolerate anyone's behavior, no matter how differant it may be, and adjust our own behavior accordingly rather than expecting them to change. It can have a lot of differant manifestations, which can be as minor as removing a racial slur from an old book, to as massive and far reaching as ignoring destructive behaviors from entire segements of the population. Basically the kind of mentality that leads to people thinking it's okay to ban people from wearing a T-shirt with the American Flag on it during a foreign holiday to avoid offending immigrants (who are supposed to be American now). The correct thing to do in cases like that is to basically tell them to go pound sand, and if they get violent (as was feared) respond accordingly with the police, or even riot police if it snowballs into an entire ethnic commune getting nasty. If problems continue, then you do things like develop mechanisms by which citizenship can be repealed for lack of cultural adaption (ie not letting people stay in the country as citizens who simply want the benefits while acting like members of a differant society). Pretty much a "whatever it takes" attitude. However since I am singling out a minority as a problem and suggesting taking action against them, instead of adapting to them, that makes me a bigot and politically incorrect. To many people being able to wear The American Flag, in an American school, financed by American taxpayers is "common sense". To the politically correct it amounts to bigotry if someone objects. The fact that we have had multiple incidents of this sort (even if they have been overturned so far) represents exactly the kind of problems I'm talking about. Of course you have to realize a lot of it is laziness and a desire to not take any action as much as morality. To someone who is politically correct they don't want to have to deal with things like potentially putting down riots, or throwing people out of the country who might have been born here and not adapted. Especially if it gets paticularly mean in cases where no country wants to take them (as might happen with an Anchor baby). It's easier to say WE should adapt, and hope the problem goes away, or just ignore it because hey... it doesn't affect me right now. Here is one of the links I post (it comes up at the top of searches) for this incident. Do a search for things like "American Flag banned in school", or various similar things and you'll find several incidents ranging from problems with T-shirts, to a kid who had the flag on his bike that he rode to school (and when the desician was overturned a bunch of bikers gave him an escort back to the school which was pretty cool), and similar things. California and Texas (to a lesser extent) seem to be among the places with the biggest problems. So umm, basically... no I'm not tolerant of that. I'll say flat out, I'm bigoted towards immigrants when things like this are happening. If you can't accept it's your bloody flag too (since you immigrated) you really don't belong here. What's more these people are going to threaten violence against the country that took them in for displaying it's flag? To heck with that... | |
I should've also mentioned that I have no problem with protesting Coulter, that's completely fine, but making sure that no one can get into the building by blocking the door (I was violently pushed back when I tried to enter) as well as their other chaotic actions are completely irresponsible and very morally questionable. Responding to someone speaking with acts and threats of violence, no matter how minor, makes you the bad person, not them. Morality ends where the barrel of a gun begins. Also, my comment on politically correctness being applied too broadly was more in response to the fact that the protesters had no idea what she was going to speak about but still wanted to surpress her. Their basic logic was that because she's said questionable things in the past, it's therefore fine to assume that her discussion will be 'hate speech'. I'm not a fan of assumptions, and thus I don't think that 'hate speech' logic can be applied to her statements until she actually says them. Figured I should clear that up. | |
Whoa, whoa, whoa. The problems didn't start when you were a kid. The problems started when the Middle East was being colonized by countries not from the Middle east. This is oooooooooold shit here. Democracy is a bad word in a lot of people's minds there because democracies typically screwed them over. The truth of the matter is, long, long ago our ancestors didn't try diplomacy first, and we're stuck holding the bag of "They're going to hate us and perhaps try to screw us over while we try to earn back their trust or we could continue along the undiplomatic route for a while longer, keeping us safe in the short term but building up more hatred in the long run" That being the case, the West is shaping up to come in behind a few key places in terms of power sometime soon, and if the rules of engagement end up being more like our ancestors' we stand a good chance of being screwed, and HARD. Options to avoid this stand, in my mind, as a) Get a lot better at war, STAT, and b) Get a lot better at diplomacy, STAT. I'd go with diplomacy, because brute force has a way of failing at the least opportune moments. | |
For once again expressing something I thought, but couldn't quite express: Thank you Bob. | |
I agree. I agree so very, very much. | |
Especially the bigots, amirite? (And may I suggest "Bob is bigoted against bigots" is not quite the burn you were looking for. Doubt he's going to lose sleep over that one.) | |
Actually it is the words 'Norse Gods' that is the problem here. If you wanted 'American Gods', as in the novel, then invent them. It's easy and fun. I'm not saying that adaptations can't be good and that having Thor as a world-champion WE wrestler wouldn't be awesome, but I'm saying it should be played by someone who at least bares some kind of resemblance to Thor, otherwise, why even call it Thor? Why not use an African god of thunder instead?
I'm afraid it is, even if you don't see or believe it. My issue, if you'd read my original post, is to do with verisimilitude - the realism and relevancy of the piece concerning its content. If you portray a preexisting and clearly-defined black character as white, a tall character as short or a smart character as dumb, it ruins the adaptation and spoils it for me entirely. The whole exercise becomes pointless as you've just made up characteristics for a character that did not otherwise have them, and if you are so concerned about diversity then you should have just made up a character to fit the need, rather than bastardise an existing one.
I don't care.
Realism to the ancients was incredibly important and died out as time progressed. Look at Byzantine icons compared to Classical Greek statues. Please compare the Dying Gaul to the Bayeux tapestry. What is your understanding of syncretic religion? It does not mean, as the Greeks did with Adonis, adopting a god from a foreign culture and making it your own. It means comparing the roles of those gods in each respective pantheon and associating them together to understand them. This does not mean that Baal and Zeus were the same god, merely that they held the same spot in their respective pantheons. Their 'backstories' were not the same, and nobody claimed that they should be.
This is not, and has never been, the issue I am debating over. Please do not try to drag red herrings into this. Racialism of any kind is not what we're talking about, and if you think we are, you're wrong.
And well done for ending on a particularly sarcastic and disrespectful note. I don't recall attacking you with ad-homs, I recall debating with you as an intellectual equal and grown adult. | |
Fantastic, I enjoyed this a lot. I agree wholeheartedly | |
If it is in his origin then yes he should. And since his origin is that of a ww2 super spy that should be included. Unfortunately the soldiers of ww2 were segregated so Nick Fury could not have been black. | |
I think this seriously needs to be brought up | |
Jeff Dunham... so that's his name. I had the most awkward moment ever when my family was sharing funny videos on youtube and my sister brought up part of his act. Neither me or my parents found it funny and we all found it offensive. We had to explain to my sister what was wrong with it. Anyway, I blame her school for being full of almost nothing but upper-middle class white kids.
tbh they also looked fucking scary as shit. I dunno about how racist it is but it certainly would have kept me up at night. | |
...what? ...just... what? I don't think any of those words mean what you think they mean. | |
It's naive to say there is no such thing as oppression between races and genders, but it is just as naive to assume everyone on the other side as you are all the perpetrators of that oppression. That's what bothers me. | |
^This, wondering if it was "faked" for show purposes or real. Anyway, sorry, but I think PC is bullshit. Not in itself, but as it's protection most often used these days. Personally, I view everyone equally insultable. I'm not gonna insult you because you're black/gay/whatever, but I am not going to stop in my tracks with a joke or whatever if I would've otherwise used it (or it's equal-value joke/insult) if you were a member of the proud heterosexual white race. In fact, I consider anyone doing so to be just condescending and a hypocrite considering the political correctness is supposed to be about equality. | |
The major reason I call out political correctness when I see it is not that I'm trying to hide behind a shield, it's because people use it as a justification for things that they determine are 'right'. PIC is not an impenetrable fortress to use against the attacks of the League of Culturally Empathetic and Sensitive Persons, it's a counter-argument for what basically amounts to a tautology. Why is it discriminatory to call a black person black? 'Because it is'. No reason. No justification. Just a label as 'insensitive' if you disagree. It's the worst kind of social engineering; the kind that forces out an opinion simply because somebody with a Messiah complex feels it is wrong. Case in point: Black people in America have the famous moniker "African-American". I've heard this term applied to German black people who were on vacation in the Bahamas. They have never set foot in the US, yet people call them African-American because 'black' is 'wrong'. Similarly, whenever I fill out a survey or census sheet, I have to list myself as 'Caucasian'. The last time any of my known relatives lived in the Caucasus Mountains was when man migrated into Europe from Asia. My ancestry, racially speaking, is mostly German, Irish, Scottish, Scandinavian, and Swiss. If anything, I'm 'North/Central European', not 'Caucasian'. These are definitions of Caucasian, both from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary website: "Of or relating to the Caucasus or its inhabitants" "Of, constituting, or characteristic of a race of humankind native to Europe, North Africa, and southwest Asia and classified according to physical features" So why are all white people, of which there is a staggering variety, lumped together in something more closely related to Turkish or Persian than the central, western, and northern European descents that dominate the American population? So 'black' can be re-termed 'African-American'. The only black African I ever met was very insistent that he was Hutu, not African-American. It's a big fallacy to generalize such a large and diverse population like that, anyway. Algerians and Ethiopians are both from Africa. Why are Algerians not labeled African-American? Because it doesn't actually refer to American citizens, citizens-to-be, or otherwise residents of America who are ancestrally African. It's a substitute word for 'black', and we know it. Otherwise Algerians, Moroccans, Libyans, Egyptians, and all other lighter-skinned North African races would be African-American as well. The diversity among actual racial origin is absolutely fascinating. There are so many experiences unique to a single race that we squander because we feel the need to lump everyone together in dubiously-accurate geographical representations of race. Where did the 21-gun salute come from? The Zulus. Where did St. Patrick's Day come from? The Irish. Who made the first pizza? The Italians. Where does modern military strategy originate? China. The list goes on and on and on and on. If anything, our definitions of race should become more precise to celebrate each race the way they deserve. 'African-American', 'Caucasian', 'Asian', 'Latino', and so forth are bland, meaningless terms that sap us of our individual identities in the interest of making everyone identical. Having grown up in a white-bread suburb, I can say for certain that a homogeneous population is about the most boring thing I can think of. Every culture and every race has something that they contributed to modern society. Why do we insist on diluting this to its basest, blandest form? The concept of a melting pot has been completely destroyed by the idea of 'political correctness'. Identity should be a source of personal pride. You want to move society to a point where political correctness (or lack of it) is the modus operandi for everyone? Then stop defining 'equal' as 'identical'. Now, there are plenty of incidences where PIC is used as a shield. Those are holding back society as much as when PC is a tautology cover-up. The entire idea is flawed, no matter what side you're on. The only way to go about it is to try to run the center course. If someone calls a black man a 'n****r' and then calls you PC for being insulted, then he's clearly in the wrong. If someone is upset when you say 'Columbian, not Latino', they're just as much an obstacle as the first person. All the examples listed apply to race, but the concept applies to everything. Men and women are clearly unique, as thousands of years of miscommunication demonstrate. Why try to force two fundamentally different groups into the same mindset? It doesn't work and encourages bitterness between men and women. Trying to use the same approach for all races, sexes, and ages is like trying to fix all the problems on a broken-down car using only a screwdriver. No tool is inherently superior, and no problem is less worthy of attention. We've accepted that viewpoint into every part of our existence except the most important part of all. | |
I found Jeff Dunham VERY funny when I first saw his show, but mind you, I'm a European, and an Eastern European to match, so I didn't think of it as offensive at all. He's taking stereotypes, and gives them a strong comedic overtone. I can see how the lazy Jalapeno Pepper may be a bit of a kick in the gnads, but Ahmed, the Dead Terrorist? Isn't that just a way to make reality less scary? It's a long known defensive mechanism - you ridicule what you find terrifying to make it more manageable. I mean, if so many people around the world laugh at the guy, can he really be that bad? I know that people are generally stupid assholes, but compare Dunham to that 'He's a ni**er' guy, who ended his career with one outburst. And NOBODY in the entire theatre laughed at that 'joke' of his. | |
I have never really had to deal with this issue so I am kinda at a loss of what the hells going on. | |
One of your best vids! | |
Bob, sir, I absolutely applaud you for this one. This was said incredibly well, and needed to be said. Thank you. As for those bringing up RE5; here is a brief history of the Resident Evil 5 & Racism issue as it pertains to Bob. There were two separate points of contention that went around during the Resident Evil 5 trailer. One of these was the genocide charge, that it was a video of 'whitey killing black'. The other, most famously made by N'gai Croal (with his memorable phrase, "This imagery has a history"). Bob was, in fact, critical at the time of both of these issues; he argued the criticisms should be deferred until the game was released. (Although it's worth pointing out that he defended Croal vehemently against the torrent of criticism that got levelled at him from the gamer community.) When RE5 was released, the first criticism was still up for contention, but the second criticism gained massive corroboration with the tribal imagery that hadn't been seen in the trailer (and that Bob briefly highlighted in this video). At that point, Bob switched his position, more or less acknowledging that Croal's criticisms were valid against the finished game (with some caveats). Or, in the Teal Deer version: Yes, people criticised the African imagery rather than just the act of killing. And Bob's statements here are pretty consistent with the opinion he's expressed before. | |
Angry Bob is angry | |
Okay, that was a bit of a low blow, I'll cop to it. Sorry.
No, it's only a problem if you believe "Norse Gods" are a purely ethnic property in a way that other gods are not. There is no particular reason for that belief and no need for writers of fiction to subscribe to it. If you want to adapt the Norse Gods a capable of taking on different forms and appearances, but still want to make use of some of their traits and narratives, do so. Same with Nigerian orishas or Hindu gods or Japanese gods or Native American spirits. What matters is the integrity of the story, not some irrelevant ethnic 'verisimilitude;' if it works on its own terms it doesn't have to be answerable to what the chronologically earliest depiction 'looked like.' Comics don't often answer to quite so noble a standard, of course, but if you know anything about them you should know that this:
... is a comical thing to say. Complaining to Marvel comics about the "verisimilitude" of their adaptation of any deity is just dumb; when has that ever been a concern of comics?
"Naturalism" in scuplture had nothing to do with "realism." "Realism" as you mean it is carefully comparing things to their original ethnic contexts because for some reason this is important to you with the depiction of deities. The ancients had plenty of naturalism, they simply did not give a shit about realism. Your complaint about "verisimilitude" would have made zero sense to them.
Straight imports and comparison were both practised widely. In the case of imports, the ancients were not concerned with the ethnic "verisimilitude" of appearance. The representations might carry forward one or two key identifying characteristics: Mithras' origin is hinted at by his Phrygian cap, but Roman artists otherwise were unconcerned with whether he looked Phrygian if indeed such artists ever had cause to lay eyes on someone from Phrygia. This should be no shock. Representations of Jesus follow similar patterns. He looks Syrian in early paintings, Italian or European in paintings from the Renaissance, black in Ethiopia, Asian in Korea. It's a perfectly normal thing for artists to do. | |
Uhhh....for 3/4's of the way, I was right behind you. I don't know when I stopped walking beside you, but I guess it was when we got into blame-throwing. Gay doesn't mean homosexual. It originally meant happy. ("We'll have a gay old time"- The Flintstones) See, here's the problem with the PC movement: Big White Corporate-land (Which doesn't include you or me, and never will unless we've got family in there) has decided that words like Golliwog and Faggot are offensive - not because they have a deep meaning of antagonism, but that they've been used to antagonise in the past. We've been utter assholes in the past, and there's some of us that are still assholes in the present; but it's hugely dangerous to start limiting speech purely from when "Haters are gonna Hate". It's one of the main reasons I like the Escapist. I can say fuck when I need to. I can write 455 without the swear-checker jumping on it. I understand that there are people out there who just want to potty-mouth the whole day long, but like DRM, there's always a way around it. And also like DRM, innocent consumers are caught up in the fight between Corporateland and Anarchyland. Would I ever use the N word to a black guy? No. That would be rude. Political Correctness is a toxic point because it subtly slips in new words into the vernacular, which just become as racist as the old ones; slips some out which are actually useful and descriptive (purely because they've been used in hate speech); and heralds in the wonders of Newspeak where reporting on sexcrime is doubleplusgood. TL;DR: Stop the hatewords, not the hatelanguage. (Oh, Achmed the Dead Terrorist? Lots of Arabians laugh their dishdasha's off at it) | |
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Hmm... I was only a child, but I find it odd that I seem to remember a big threat in the 90's when you don't. While foreign terrorism became this last decade's target, the 90's was all about domestic terror. Between the Waco massacre, the OKC bombings, Columbine, and the texas 7 breakout, I can't remember very many times of my childhood when my teachers weren't scaring us into a dark corner at the prospect of psychos with assault rifles breaking down the doors and murdering everyone at the school, including the small whimpering children. That isn't really hyperbole either, my teachers were the complete counter-point to the prospect of rationalism.
As for the actual point of the video, I do agree. There are so many people that claim that political correctness is destroying this country or destroy the UK when they're really just pissed off that they aren't allowed to be racist bigots. I do find many cases of political correctness to be quite asinine (just look up what George Carlin had to say on it and you'll see what I'm talking about), but not in a cases where people are just trying to be nasty to one another.