The Big Picture: Captains Courageous

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6
 

Man I love those "COMICS ARE WEEEEIIIRDD!" episodes. They fill my head with redundant crap that has no practical use at all. And that's exactly the way I love them :D

Therumancer:

4173:
[You make some good points. However, I think if we were able to survey the entire genre, abused men are much more likely to get a chance to fight back. A tortured Superman will eventually be able to fight back much more effectively than Lois Lane.

Most of that could probably be chalked up to their being more male superheroes and therefor more non-powered female significant others. (And that's fine with me, I'm not saying it needs to be equal. I'm not saying there is a sinister motive). From a pure numbers perspective though, I doubt women as a group get as much revenge as men.

Not really, remember Lois Lane is not a super hero. She's a dependant. Now granted she has blurred the distinction at times when she has had super abillities for a time, or had her own comic series which kind of played out like a sleuth/mystery story type thing, but in general her entire reason to exist is to provide a sense of jeopardy for Superman, whose name is on the cover. He fights back in the end, because he's Superman and it's his comic book. There are female heroes who have dependants who are in the same position.

Argueing that Lois Lane, or Aunt May, have bad things happen to them but don't get to fight back and save the day is kind of silly. Besides, it's kind of co-ed especially in Superman. Lois Lane is one of the more common characters to put in jeopardy given that she's his love interest, but let's not just forget that Jimmy Olson winds up in the same situations, oftentimes right next to Lois Lane. Honestly I think Lois has probably had more moments of cool than Jimmy had over the years... though both have saved Superman more than once.

Now, a better arguement, but one that also doesn't qork, would be in looking at sidekicks. Sidekicks being other heroes who exist to play off the protaganist, being captured and rescued, but also doing some cool things and fighting alongside them as well.

One of the big arguements oftentimes made is about how characters like "Black Canary" like "Zatanna" have spent a goodly amount of time in bondage with gags in their mouth. The thing to consider though is that when that mostly happened she was effectively acting as a sidekick to other characters like "Green Arrow" as opposed to an actual partner. Due to her popularity the scope of the character was increased, she became an actual partner, and started getting equal billing on super teams, although she hasn't ever really been able to hold down a title of her own for long. The transition actually does matter, and a lot of criticisms of characters like this being defeated are kind of silly when you consider that other sidekicks who are guys deal with the same problem all the time. Indeed Robin has been captured and tied up so many times that it feeds into all the jokes about the "reality" of his relationship with Batman. :P

Irregardless of gender, it's important to carefully consider what role a character is actually playing in a story. When dealing with long running characters who began as bit parts or sidekicks and then were developed into full fledged heroes the situation can be complicated. Given that a lot of long running female heroes have relatively humble
origins there can be some confusion on the issue. While bad things still happen, there is a definate differance between how the Black Canary of today fits into stories and the role she plays than what she did when she was first introduced. She was very much a "robin" type.

Of course then again, whose name is on the cover of a comic book also says a lot. Even a character who is usually a sidekick is going to be far more effective if he has his own spin off. For example if your reading a "Robin" comic book, chances are he isn't going to wind up spending the whole thing tied up in a closet waiting to be rescued. Even with dependants, like say Lois Lane, or even Comissioner Gordon, if the comic series bears their name as the title then they aren't going to be the victim, and the opposition is likely to be scaled to them. Comissioner Gordon being an example of a dependant character that doesn't fit the usual mould, since he provides a useful service to the hero without fighting alongside them, he however spends most of his time getting outgunned and needing to be rescued, or protected from the criminals he fights. Gordon might conceptually be a tough (if aging) cop, but he's not an action hero (except rarely when he's had his own title), typically the most useful thing he can do is turn on the Bat Signal... that's kind of his job as far as the stories go.

Sorry, I don't think I expressed myself well enough.

I was talking about perception, and specifically addressing why the horrible things that happen to men are not talked about the same way as those with women.

Because the supporting characters are generally much less famous, when examined out of context women may end up looking like plot devices and victims. The women get hurt and then the man takes revenge.

If I pick up a random Batman, I'll likely see him get hurt and then punch some people. Circle closed. On the other hand, all I might see is Leslie Thompkins getting threatened or hurt, without knowing she is a pacifist or and without knowing about moments she does get in the spotlight, or why she was at risk.

After that it is just a numbers game. Even though the prevalence of male heroes is probably mostly innocent, when the books are seen without a comic book lens, it looks more sinister.

And once that sinister outlook is assumed and added to world history (i.e. women being mistreated) events look different in severity. Once that lens is applied, Black Canary being tied up looks worse than Robin being tied up, because of world history and logic. Viewed with comic book history and logic, not so much.

I'm not denying that some people are being sensational or opportunistic. But I think because TV and movies have similar lenses, people naturally think it will work for comics too.

Vault Citizen:

ReiverCorrupter:
Bob. I'm going to stop watching your shorts if you keep filling my mind with UTTERLY useless information. Seriously. I've probably unlearned something important to make room for that shite.

If you want important information why are you coming to a website that is pretty much all about entertainment?

Not necessarily important. Just relevant to my life in some significant way.

So do they ever canonically explain why there are 4 members of Greek mythology and a random Roman entity in the name? Is it just that SHAZAH! doesn't roll off the tongue as well?

punipunipyo:
okay... so... can you then explain to me why in the trailer (the full pre-rendered) DC-universe online, on the "Lex Luther side", why is "Cap-Marvel (the DC one, of course)" on the bad guy's side? because I AM SOOOOO SURE that B4 the "NUKE BOOM", he said "SAHZAM" then "BOOM" it went... WHO WAS THAT ONE? it can't be the "kid" could it?

Nice informative episode by the way...

Might have been Black Adam. Similar costume, similar powers.

ReiverCorrupter:
Bob. I'm going to stop watching your shorts if you keep filling my mind with UTTERLY useless information. Seriously. I've probably unlearned something important to make room for that shite.

You're using your free time to post on a video game journalism site. You have nothing important to unlearn.

(Neither do I, and it's bliss.)

Optimystic:

ReiverCorrupter:
Bob. I'm going to stop watching your shorts if you keep filling my mind with UTTERLY useless information. Seriously. I've probably unlearned something important to make room for that shite.

You're using your free time to post on a video game journalism site. You have nothing important to unlearn.

(Neither do I, and it's bliss.)

It's called procrastination, and it's a common practice amongst students,

The saddest thing I learned all day - I already knew almost everything said in this episode. Once you have been geeked you can never be ungeeked again.

Wow Bob, I'm surprised you either didn't mention, or didn't know that Spiderman was the Marvel Comics' "Captain Marvel" for a bit.

rick jones ? i'm extremely interested in hearing bob's take on the character.

T

Souplex:

punipunipyo:
okay... so... can you then explain to me why in the trailer (the full pre-rendered) DC-universe online, on the "Lex Luther side", why is "Cap-Marvel (the DC one, of course)" on the bad guy's side? because I AM SOOOOO SURE that B4 the "NUKE BOOM", he said "SAHZAM" then "BOOM" it went... WHO WAS THAT ONE? it can't be the "kid" could it?

Nice informative episode by the way...

Might have been Black Adam. Similar costume, similar powers.

Thanks for the info...already googl-ed on the Black Adam fellow... thanks

Alar:

brazuca:

HankMan:

Your head is messed-up Bob
But then again so are comic books.

One day things will get really weird, when japanese manga enters this show. I knew about the dispute, but not about how weird was Cp Marvel (both) comics were.

Typically, most Japanese manga haven't been running as long as American comics, so American comics actually have the opportunity to be weirder just purely out of run time.

Actually, it is more to do with the fact that most manga are 1) done by the same people throughout their run and 2) do NOT have to deal with the issue of existing in a much larger universe. However if a series becomes popular in Japan the continuity can rapidly go pear shaped.

For example, Tenchi Muyo! began as an OVA in 1994, only 17 years ago has EIGHT (!) different "core" continuities: OAV, or Ryo-ohki, Universe; Negishi, or TV, Universe; Tokyo (STM! or TiT) Universe; Hasegawa Universe; Manga, or Okuda, Universe; Pretty Sammy OAV Universe; Pretty Sammy TV Universe; and Sasami ~Mahou Shoujo Club Universe.

All these series have manga based on them and some create even MORE continuities. For example the Isekai no Seikishi Monogatari universe manga starts in the OVA reality but then goes into an alternate reality. According to one FAQ there are no less then 13 (!!!) different manga continuities for Tenchi:

1. OVA Pure OVA storyline.

2. OVA + K OVA storyline plus True Tenchi novels and STM perfects article and various doujin.

3. OVA + MNE OVA storyline plus Hasegawa's novels + Manatsu no Eve

4. OVA + Manga 1st OVA series plus Manga.

5. OVA+TTM+Doujin There are a number of dojin that have work by the creators of Tenchi in them. (Mostly by Mr. Kajishima)

6. MNE Manatsu no Eve - 2nd Tenchi Movie

7. K Novels written by Kuroda and Kajishima.

8. Manga The Manga written by Okuda Hitoshi. Released under no need for Tenchi

9. Comic American comic run by Pioneer.

10. TV Tenchi Muyo TV series. Released under the name Tenchi Universe

11. K+Doujin Novels and Doujin from Mr. Kajishima

12. STM Shin (new) Tenchi Muyo. Released under the name Tenchi in Tokyo

13. Duel Duel has been stated by its creator as to be yet another Tenchi reality.

Another example is Sailor Moon (1992) which was originally only planned to go through what is now known as the Beryl arc. The Sailor Moon anime resulted in the pre-existing "Codename: Sailor V" manga being made part of Sailor Moon managa messing up the continuity and the popularity of the anime resulted in more arcs that compounded the continuity issue. The Sailor Moon manga universe has seen one formal reboot (end of Beryl arc), has at least three reboots to "the" future, and so many continuity glitches it makes the Silver Age look tame.

I'm surprised MovieBob didn't mention Captain Thunder with his alter ego Willie Fawcett (Superman (vol. 1) #276 (June 1974)). Thunder stood for Tornado (power), Hare (speed), Uncas (bravery), Nature (wisdom), Diamond (toughness), Eagle (flight) and Ram (tenacity).

There was even a proposal to create a black version of Captain Thunder for the main Earth-1 reality in 1982 that went nowhere.

hurricanejbb:
Am I the only one who wants to see Bob and Linkara team up to do one of these "Comics are Weird" episodes?

^This

I would very much appreciate this

Captcha: behind bsendi

A MESSAGE FROM THE GREAT LORD INGLIP! BROTHERS! WE MUST SEE WHAT LIES BEHIND BSENDI!

Great job Bob. I don't care that I don't follow comics at all, I still find you talking about them highly amusing.

Last I read, Marvel's Capt. Marvel was a Dark Avenger. Dark Avengers was a really awesome series
As for DC's Capt. Marvel, I have no clue what happened to him after Infinite Crisis. I've not read Blackest Night yet, though. He probably shows up in there somewhere... possibly dead

MaxerJ:
I thought Captain Marvel was a bit of a stick, having not really read any of his comics but knowing he was DC and thinking it strange to name a character after your biggest rival.

And then I read Judgement Day.

What the hell was that comic called? Anyone? The one where Marvel slaughters Supes?

Kingdom Come - illustrated by Alex Ross (the DC Captain Marvel pic Bob was using), and the second best examination of how f*ed up it would be for an 8 yr old boy to suddenly become a near omnipotent adult hero after Miracle Man make that Marvelman!

YOU... ARE... WEIRD... But I dig the show. Keep up good work.

MovieBob:
So now you know that stuff
Welcome to my head

A LOT of wasted space on boring topics?

I am taking a class in collage on comics and graphic novels. We talked about Captain Marvel in class one day.

I was never big into DC but because of 52 Black Adam is totally my favor DC character. I'd love to see an episode for him. I also love Miss Marvel too, so hopefully one day she will get covered. Honestly I could just see Bob doing a whole spin off show of "COMIC ARE WEIRD."

Man, I need to get back into comic books again. The greatest thing about when I worked at a comic book store was having access to all those comics.

AND THAT'S THE BIG PICTURE

What a joke.

I need to visit your head more often Bob. Good episode. I'm sure I'll have to watch it again to fully understand though...

hurricanejbb:
Am I the only one who wants to see Bob and Linkara team up to do one of these "Comics are Weird" episodes?

I'd sure love to see a video of them making fun of a particular weird comic. If that worked, I'd also love to watch their videos whenever they posted one.

Seriously wasn't there a time when this show was not just rambling about comics? Personally I don't give two shits about comics but i can endure an episode now and again, but I'd really like to see this show focusing more on gaming and movies instead of endless bitching about comics. Seriously who the hell cares?

Pretty interesting, tho tbh, both versions of captain marvel sound pretty lame.

now I have... MORE USELESS FACTS
WOOOOO

god dammit bob, we all like comics, but you're killing us here. honestly, i think the whole shazam thing is what turned me away from DC and lead me to become a marvel guy. he just looks stupid! just saying.

now talk about video games or something, gears of war 3 is coming, we're all excited for that, right? how about the avengers movie? (not comics, but super hero movies, i love marvel movies)

That was just simply Marvelous

I think one reason I love The Big Picture is that you seriously do use it to talk about whatever is in your head that week. I love hearing the many facets to Bob's geekdom that spills over into the larger nerd culture. Interesting stuff espoused in this edition sir. I had wondered about this a little bit but never enough to research it. Now I know.

Isn't Black Adam somehow related to the Captain Marvel...uh...SHAZAM mythos? or is his costume just a coincidince?

2 questions Mr. Bob:

1) When is the Ms. Marvel episode? You could justify it by saying she'll be coming around anyway come the Avenger's movie or movie series (since they sure as hell won't stop at 1 Avengers movie unless it bombs in a big, big, BIG way)

2) Marvel Bunny vs Howard the Duck. GO!

Nice. Ms Marvel is awesome but I'd never heard of Captain Marvel...not the Marvel version, anyway.

Personally, I prefer Phyla-Vell during her time with the Guardians of the Galaxy as the successor to Quasar. (Look it up on ComicVine if you don't know what I'm talking about) Say there's a topic for Bob in the possible future: Guardians of the Galaxy.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here