Jimquisition: Too Cool To Be Cool

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Ace IV:

Mike Laserbeam:
I liked it.
I certainly find Jimquisition MUCH easier to stomach than a lot of the stuff on this site. (Not ZP, Movie Bob or Extra Credits though)

This. Extra Credits is so pretentious it hurts to watch.

He was praising extra credits. Reading comprehension is a powerful tool.

I didn't really get the bit about Duke Nukem myself, who really takes it seriously anyway? The game is all tongue in cheek. We don't need some side kick telling us the jokes are dumb for us to know they're not quite serious.

But the part about Sonic had some pretty good ideas.

icame:

Ace IV:

Mike Laserbeam:
I liked it.
I certainly find Jimquisition MUCH easier to stomach than a lot of the stuff on this site. (Not ZP, Movie Bob or Extra Credits though)

This. Extra Credits is so pretentious it hurts to watch.

He was praising extra credits. Reading comprehension is a powerful tool.

You should taken a lesson from your own advice. He wasn't praising extra credits, he was excluding it from condemnation. There's a difference.

Jim. If enough of your audience didn't get your shtick several episodes into your show that you had to explain it to them in very nearly explicit terms, you've done something wrong. The right solution to this is not to explicitly spell it out, but rather to actually make the shtick work. For the last twenty or thirty seconds or so, the shtick worked.

i think jim's point was that duke was played so seriously as a macho jerk that lack of obvious irony makes it harder to play the game. at least in the game, hes idolized (even in that little clip there was a statue)regardless of how he acts. even if the entire game is supposed to be taken as satirical, the fact that hes worshipped as a hero in game gives it the impression that being a macho jerk is acceptable as long as you save the world. the fact is, he doesn't have any redeeming qualities at all, and the fact that no one in game calls him on this is like giving him free license to continue.

basically because he doesn't get called on it, he can't relate to the player. the player subconsciously or not, should realize that his actions are wrong, and that makes it harder to even root for the guy. it would be different if he was like jim said: a guy who is a jerk regardless of people's reactions, a "jerk for the LOL". he used dante as his example of a relate-able character, and sonic for... well, he might not be a full jerk, but definitely is an example of a character type that doesn't relate to people anymore.

i'd say another good example of "what works" would be Travis from no more heroes. hes not exactly a nice guy, but his motives and the comedy mostly comming at his expense makes him resonate with people on some level.

The-Epicly-Named-Man:
I dont think people understand what he's saying about DN, its not that he's a serious character, it's that in the game world he's taking to seriously, as in nobody in the world looks down at him. Anyway, I'm not saying to agree with him, I'm saying to discuss what he meant, not what you misunderstood.

You're putting words in Sterling's mouth. If that is what he meant, he misspoke.

"As Duke Nukem Forever speeds towards a release date, I can't stop thinking about the biggest problem I have with the franchise and this game in particular- the complete lack of evidenced irony. Duke Nukem is not a man we're supposed to pity, or laugh at or be disgusted with in any way. [Describes Duke] ...But rather than make that a point of comedy with the character, we're supposed to actually think he's a brilliant, wonderful guy. To me, this is the fundamental difference between Duke Nukem and Sam Stone from the Serious Sam series. One is played straight, the other not so much."

It only gets worse. Face it, Sterling needs a laugh track to know he's watching comedy. If he doesn't have his hand held through every single joke, it goes completely over his head. It's like he can't infer things without having them explicitly spelled out.

Duke Nukem goes over Jim Sterling's head. Just think about that.

Zetsubou^-^:
lack of obvious irony makes it harder to play the game

I don't lament the lack of "obvious irony". Are things really so bad that Duke Nukem is too subtle for gamers to comprehend? Lack of obvious jokes makes it harder for Sterling to understand the jokes. If we restrict the discussion to what he actually said in the video, that's all this is.

Am I the only one that thinks he sounds like Robin Leach? And on Duke taking himself serious, I see him as those 90's action heroes that acted all serious but no one took them seriously.

Hmm. Sonic the Hedgehog re-imagined as an intentionally out-of-touch character subject to meta-humor? That would pretty much make Sonic into Animal-Man(as written by Grant Morrison). Considering that he's an anthropomorphic hedgehog, that might just be the right move for Sega to take with him at that!

I always saw Duke Nukem as a blonde Al Bundy with guns (both in the literal sense and in reference to his muscles), an image that doesn't lend itself too well to a character meant to be taken seriously. Now, if the crappiest DNF trailer of them all is a hint of what Duke thinks of his own actions taken throughout the game, there may yet be hope.

This show really sucks. How can someone be paying this guy to talk this dribble? I would say this guy has a face for radio but then his voice aint so hot either. Should stick to writing articles.

Am I really seeing escapist content being congratulated for successful trolling? I really hope the escapist isn't producing videos that have no information or entertainment value except to troll. Was everything he said about Duke Nukem purely for trolling purposes? When did this become 4chan/b/?

By the way, trolling is not the same as irony or satire. I don't see how you could confuse the two, but it looks like Sterling and some of his fans here have done just that.

You know what? I'm actually really starting to like you Jim :D You're funny and you have a lot of really good points to make.

ShadowKatt:

According to that poll that I liked that majority is still better than half the site and more than 1/5 the active community than those that actually like this. Liking or disliking may be subjective, but if you want to watch it so badly, go watch it somewhere else. This site as spoken and they don't want it. You tell me how the numbers are now suddenly subjective.

You didn't get anything close to getting the "entire sites" opinion. You got the people who bothered to click on the thread.

So, you don't speak for anybody really.

Sonic Colors was an unimpressive game besides the character lines? I thought it was pretty good, as well as pretty pretty. From the flashing colors of his world to the speed that halted the least often ever, Sonic came off as the coked-out speed freak jokers felt he should be. His lines, however, not only fit that character but also were rather annoying (Yes, I know you're going to beat the bolts out of the big bad boss. Just shut up about it, Sonic.)

I'm glad he's finally commenting on his persona. Call me dumb and spank me hard but the first episodes made me believe he indeed was an arrogant jerk. But the more I watched, the more I caught up with his alternate persona. And while I'll admit I still don't like him entirely for whatever reason, I'll also say that I realize what he's trying to do and I'll also admit he makes some really good points.
With Dante, you see him as cool because of all the badass moves he does but his bad luck brings in the comedy; his bike gets destroyed, a girl shoots him, his business isn't kicking off and its crap, etc. Duke, however, is meant to see as the epiphany of cool when, well, it's not. He was an iconic 90's character and that worked for him, back then when we were easily amused by a fat plumber jumping all over the place and actions movies were filled with guys like Duke Nukem. But nowadays, people need more than that. As time passes by, a character should evolve to stay fresh and current.

Now, I know the joke lies in Duke's personality, a chauvinist guy who never loses his cool. Most of us get that. But you would be surprised to see how many guys still take him seriously. Guys stuck in the 90's and half of the guys who are looking forward to this game (Keyword: Half. Not everyone. Only some). Yes, there are some comedy moments in the game, such as flinging shit at stuff. But if you ask me, for a game that tries to bring comedy into the table, even if its just a comedy bit, they kinda need to be willing to laugh at the main character too and not just only at everyone else who surrounds the character or the environment or anything else. Be willing to dent Duke's armor just a bit.

For once, I agree with Jim.

Friendshipandmagic:

ShadowKatt:

According to that poll that I liked that majority is still better than half the site and more than 1/5 the active community than those that actually like this. Liking or disliking may be subjective, but if you want to watch it so badly, go watch it somewhere else. This site as spoken and they don't want it. You tell me how the numbers are now suddenly subjective.

You didn't get anything close to getting the "entire sites" opinion. You got the people who bothered to click on the thread.

So, you don't speak for anybody really.

You got the vocal minority not the objective statistic. Numbers are objective. Polls are subjective. This is like going to a protest for abortion and polling people on their views of abortion, then claiming 95% objectively want abortion banned.

The numbers *do* lie, and slanted induction sucks balls.

yellowhead:
I'm trying to give this series a chance, but Jim has completely missed the point of Duke Nukem.

Duke has NEVER been a serious character. He's a B-Movie star. A steriotype of 80/90s action movies like Arnie, Stallone etc. but pushed to the nth degree. It's all tongue in cheek and at no point are we supposed to take it seriously. We're supposed to enjoy the ride.

Yeah, I'm going to not say my own opinion and instead, just agree with you.

Duke Nukem is a parody of a bad parody, and his character works because it's a serious-faced parody of a parody. It's why, say, Airplane! and such are hilarious - everyone is acting completely serious and is 100% dedicated to the mechanics of what is basically a stupid, stupid world.

Duke completely works, though I can sort of see the logic in that perhaps it should point itself out more often. Otherwise, yeah. Duke's already a joke.

I never saw Duke as a serious character either.

I didn't really understand much of this episode, I think at this point Duke is already an ironic character, if not simply a nostalgic one. I've played a number of Sonic games but I've never really found his personality to have any real effect on my bearing of the game.

I don't really want to address his other statements, they hurt me physically when I think about them.

Netrigan:

GrimHeaper:
Can Someone tell me the name of that song he uses?

"Born Depressed" by Drill Queen

Thinks also if appears if you search this song you get something...
liek this

Baneat:

You got the vocal minority not the objective statistic. Numbers are objective. Polls are subjective. This is like going to a protest for abortion and polling people on their views of abortion, then claiming 95% objectively want abortion banned.

The numbers *do* lie, and slanted induction sucks balls.

Exactly, if he stays or leaves is decided by his traffic numbers. Those don't lie.

I'v always known that Jim was making a direct attempt at trying to be an ironic idiot that wasn't supposed to be taken seriously and that he hoped everyone would love.

I've also always known he was an complete and blithering idiot, who had no idea how to pull it off right.

It seems that the Escapist too thinks a British accent is all it takes to get a little recognition these days. 'Oh don't be riddiculous, why on Earth do we need to find someone TALENTED? This guy's BRITISH! That'll MORE than make up for any stupid level of actual SKILL, you simple fools...'

What Jim obviously fails to realise is that Duke IS a parody of cool. They simply made the entire WORLD of Duke Nukem a parody of sorts on cool. And also that what made Dante cool in his 3rd game was actually playing things aloof, essentually meaning that Dante was not taking what he was doing seriously. It was as Dante said, all 'one hell of a party' to him.

Jim also fails to realise that in his attempted description of himself, he also ended up describing another particular game blogger, who, despite having not done himself justice in the last several months, is still more entertaining and educational to watch than this buffoon.

I think what Jim is missing is that there are differant styles of humor. What's funny about Duke is that it's taken seriously within the context of his game world. We as the people get to snicker at how preposterous it all is. It's a differant style than having characters within the game world take him down a peg, rather it's funny because they don't, and I think all the humor out there with the over the top he-man getting taken down, or one-upped constantly by the female co-role, or whatever is exactly what helps to make this funny.

It's not just in the Jimquisition, but in the media in general, that I've noticed this tendency to claim that Duke Nukem is being presented as some kind of icon. Truthfully, I have never gotten that impression, he's presented as being pretty bloody absurd.

I will also be honest in saying that the whole "too cool for school" thing isn't something that was the product of a bygone decade, after all that whole attitude was just as absurd then as it is now. Today people point back to the 00s and 90s, in the 90s people pointed back to the 80s, and in the 80s they pointed back to the 70s... and well mass media culture of the type we're dealing with doesn't go back much futher than that in the context we're talking about, at least in examples I could clearly point to. What we're dealing with is something that is "corny", and to be honest the things that are truely corny were never taken seriously in any decade. Certain properties however manage to make something corny, really cool at the same time (and you can replace corny with campy on other subjects where the reality is simple), of course that kind of corny-cool tends to lose something when it's beaten into the ground too much... which is what happened with Sonic The Hedgehog. Duke Nukem goes for a differant style than Sonic, but it's the same basic argurment, but with Duke it's been so long between actualy games that he hasn't worn out his welcome.

If you want to look at an example of what Duke Nukem is going for, think of the old "Buckaroo Banzai" movie, which managed to become a cult success. Buckaroo Banzai was basically the same schtick as Duke Nukem, albiet without the explicit sexuality (although by definition all the women in that universe were madly in love with our hero). Buckaroo Banzai basically could do anything, and was an expert in every field of human endeavor, he had friends and allies to the four corners of the earth, he had his own worldwide secret society to boot. His enemies were equally absurd world threatening aliens. Fans of that cult classic had been clamouring to actually make the promised sequel, but at the same time if they had actually delivered on turning that into a franchise, it would have gone the way of Sonic.

With Dante, they were actually trying to go for a comic-book type thing from what little I've read on the subject. Dante's antics were inspired by those comic book fights where you occasionally see a hero or villain so in control of a fight against someone that they outclass that they do something absurd with their powers to make that point and humiliate their opponent. Sometimes this is combined with an artist showing off what kind of cool things an artist can do with sequential art as a medium, sometimes simplistically. I could give an exhaustive list, but I'm sure any comic reader has occasionaly gone "he just did what?" from that kind of situation. The thing is that Dante overdid it. If some bad guy attacks, and gets KOed by The Flash, but then you find that in between the bad guy launching his first blow, and him being put down The Flash also took the time to do all the housework, cook a four course meal, and check his sidekick's homework on the other side of the planet, that's funny as an occasional thing, and as a humorous reminder of how fast he actually is (capable of bending time to literally be in multiple places at once) but if he does it every single fight it goes from being cool, to just being stupid.

To be honest I think people are decrying the macho-nature of Duke, and inentionally claiming to not "get" the style of humor (and yes, it is humor, not intended to be taken seriously) due to the pressure the games industry is getting. It's kind of frightening when I see guys like Yahtzee going on about the media going too far with violence, and guys like Jim with the same basic platform (as to the amount of views they can get) going off about Duke. To me it seems like an attempt to compromise. Games are getting mainstream attention, and thus need to start conforming with what the mainstream deems acceptable for content. The kind of humor at the root of duke, or the extreme over the top gore of Mortal Combat, are basically no-nos in the sphere of political correctness. The humor coming from Macho men has to come from watching them be cut down to size, as opposed to watching them get away with it and have everything go their way and simply chuckling at the absurdity of it... basically it being funny because it's so wrong, and the guy isn't getting cut down to size like we'd expect from like 99.9% of the rest of the humor media out there.

Right now is the point where video games need to have their extreme content, and irreverant concepts defended. Video games need to be put into society as they are, not made to adapt to the same norms they have spent decades fighting against. If this battle is won, it can also be a major springboard for other forms of media to break free from the contraints we're seeing.

When I listen to Jim here, I basically get the impression that what he wants to see is another generic sitcom, you know where the man comes home starts to act stereotypically manly, and gets cut right back down to meterosexual size by his spouse or girlfriend. That is a TYPE of humor, and the most politically correct take on gender roles, but it's not the ONLY type of humor. Granted the kind of Absurdity inherant in Duke Nukem is akin to the jokes in a Men's Locker room... but hey, it's never been making any pretensions about that. Old school Andrew "Dice" Clay with a gun and an alien invasion is a valid approach, even if some want to belittle it.

Personally I defend Duke because I like variety and right now there isn't anything quite like him out there. I'm not a big shooter fan, and probably won't be getting his game until it's on a STEAM sale or something. Make whatever judgements you want about me for defending this kind of thing, but I think it's something that should be embraced, rather than basically going after it specifically for NOT being politically correct and going along with all of the other stuff out there. "The Dice Man" was never one of my favorite Comedians, but for all the criticism, I think the comedy landscape was better for his prescence when he was at his politically incorrect worst. I also don't think you can judge people who find the politically incorrect funny, as long as they understand fantasy from reality and try and take it seriously out into the street.

Because Jim has the right to decide what is cool?

Huh...

Anyone want a really good example of a 'cool' character played for laughs the way Jim described it in this video?

Have a cookie if you looked at that and immediately thought I was going to say 'Jim'. Because you're absolutely right. He's like Duke Nukem, but taken less seriously and without the guns.

Great episode Jim.

To some of the escapist readers: Stop being such a bunch of whining idiots please, it is making me sick.

School... Of... Cool...

I KNEW I recognized you from somewhere! Class of 2001, baby! I believe you were called Jimea, the "mostly" female hermaphrodite then. Glad to see you got a good surgeon to perform the partial re-assignment surgery. You may not recognize me by my internet monicker, but back then I was called "Dictator." I was the one who walked around with a hollowed-out potato as a codpiece, you know, back BEFORE it was fashionable. Well, at least until the "accident." To answer your next question, NO, I never did find the potato with my penis in it. Still looking, though...

Anywho, how have you been? Are ya happy with just a dick now?

ShadowKatt:

Yes, even when that one camp is the majority, we have to have EVERYTHING so EVERYONE is happy ALL the time. I find it amusing that you want to attack me for trying to deny a part of the escapist their Jimquisition, well the same could be said of the Jimquisition occupying the monday slot and taking up the space that could be used for something better.

Firstly: When it's a possibility to make everyone happy simply by having said 'majority' stop going out of their way to watch something they DON'T LIKE, then yes, that solution should be sought. Secondly, show me what our alternatives are. What is being deprived that's better? Show me a: You can either have This or This option, then I'll think that your opinion isn't completely baseless.

Anyhow, he made some decent points on some things, even though I don't agree with a large portion of it.

Though Duke Nukem is absolutely disgusting, I do think in a way it expects you to realise that. It doesn't need to hold your hand for you to think it's funny. Characters that take themselves seriously are often quite entertaining to me, more so than those who purposely try to be funny. That being said, the way he acts is no way to idolise, I'm not bothered about what people do in the confinements of their dusty homes, but no one should attempt to act like him.
Unless the like the feeling of being emasculated. Permanently.

People need to stop taking this so seriously, I get the impression when he 'agrees' with your opinion is all dandy, then when he conflicts it or 'disagrees' then it's hater rage. He's no comical genius, but by now I'm hoping you are aware that you don't like the show. So go sit in the haters-gonna-hate corner and spare 6-7 minutes of your life, and 1-2 of mine having to see the whining.

You can't be extremely ironic, self-aware and do social commentary if you're trying to mix legitimate opinions of your own in there. Or at least some valid points. It doesn't work. We can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not because there's no indication of what you truly believe in. After watching your videos five times, you might finally understand that your sarcastic comment was ironic but that irony was supposed to reflect ironic sarcasm only to sarcastically state your irony of the ironic statement, but it's not very funny by that time.

Either that or you're just being a pathetic troll.

Espsychologist:
Jim fails at funny again.

Yet we watch every week. Hes either a genius or im retarded. And dont just go with the obvious one..
Incidently Its because I dont like what he says 90% of the time that has me coming back. Its complicated.

ForensicYOYO:

Espsychologist:
Jim fails at funny again.

Yet we watch every week. Hes either a genius or im retarded. And dont just go with the obvious one..
Incidently Its because I dont like what he says 90% of the time that has me coming back. Its complicated.

I just like to watch people botch up their presentations and draw completely outrageous conclusions. It is the same thing as watching teenage creationists argue that the bible is *the* truth about how this universe of ours came into being.

See, the problem here is that Jim doesn't get it. Even if we ignore the fact that he is flat out wrong about Duke Nuke'em as a serious character (Duke is a stealth parody, Sam is satire on the stealth parody, go figure) we are still left with one hard to escape fact:

People like over the top awesome characters. Just about every action movie ever made relies on the fact that the audience wants to see the totally awesome hero kick ass and get the girl. Games are no different, most people want to play a ridiculously awesome hero, save the chick and the world and hear how awesome they are.

Those of us who prefer more down to earth heroes (or flawed heroes) are a pretty vocal minority. But make no mistake, the people like me and Jim who want more 'nuanced' characters are quite vastly outnumbered.

I'm sorry but did Jim just try to play off his persona as a joke?
no no no no no no no, you're a little too much of a dickhead to be playing that card at this point, and the fact your written reviews are of the same ailment only serves to reinforce the whole 'non-fabricated' feel to the reviews.

The ironic part is that you criticize the other characters in the review for not pulling this off when you yourself cant do it justice.

lol I gotta say, good job on calling out all of the haters (myself included).
That said, it was actually a decent episode with some grat points and it really spelt out exactly what I find unappealing about DNF.
As for Jim himself, once he drops the over-acted self-righteousness part he's a pretty good speaker, but every time he goes back to that parody act he just becomes droning again. Maybe it's just me, but the whole self-righteous act he does for his videos is just a bit painful, kinda like watching Duke Nuken expecting to be taken seriously.

Ya know what...

It truly saddens me that I have to add this to what would otherwise be a mockingly-and-frankly-FUN-post, but here it goes:

THERE IS NOTHING (and I mean NOTHING) IN THIS WORLD SO SERIOUS THAT IT CAN'T BE LAUGHED AT. And, YES, games fall into that category - ALL OF THEM! Seriously, are you all a bunch of Jihad-ists willing to forgo your humanity over a cartoon? (<--too soon? If so, let me know!) Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... fuck it. Bring on the flameburger!

Every time Jim brings out a new video I grow more and more concerned he simply has nothing to offer. It's as though he hides behind a fake persona and points at it, playfully shouting "hey, look! Isn't this persona a dick! Yeah, I sure am awesome. But not really! Har har har. I'm funny" so no one takes the real him seriously and sees what little there is of it.

Ironic then that he would make a video on Duke Nukem.

brimstone1392:
Ya know what...

It truly saddens me that I have to add this to what would otherwise be a mockingly-and-frankly-FUN-post, but here it goes:

THERE IS NOTHING (and I mean NOTHING) IN THIS WORLD SO SERIOUS THAT IT CAN'T BE LAUGHED AT. And, YES, games fall into that category - ALL OF THEM! Seriously, are you all a bunch of Jihad-ists willing to forgo your humanity over a cartoon? (<--too soon? If so, let me know!) Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... fuck it. Bring on the flameburger!

Anything can be laughed at? Sure. You can laugh at anything. But why would you want to? I was raped as a child and I don't think there's anything lol worthy in that. An Australian solider was shot in the head yesterday and died on the spot. Their body is being transfered home so his family can bury him. Care to point out there joke there? I knew a girl whose mother and father died of AIDS. She was orphaned and led a less than ideal life in foster homes that saw her and her younger sister abused to the point of hospital trips. I see nothing worth laughing at there either. A divorced man in Sydney (near my home) kidnapped his daughter and murdered her, before then committing suicide. Nothing funny in that. One of my friends committed suicide after years of bullying in school. Her family asked the school to hold a service so that the young girl's friends could say goodbye. Someone decided to start laughing during the minute of silence. This caused my friend's mother to break down in tears, as those who bullied her in life were continuing to mock her in death. Funny?

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