Zachary Amaranth:

cassiebearRAWR:
FYI, the correct word for "person who identifies as something other than man or woman" is genderqueer, not transsexual. Transsexuals generally live and identify strictly as men/male or women/female... just opposite whatever they were born as.

The More You Know!

Not necessarily, sorry.

Care to expand on that?

This made me realize that I must purchase Saints Row 2 over the oh-so-distant summer. Don't know why I haven't done so yet, actually. Always assumed it was some kind of gangsta-simulator whenever I saw the box-art, I guess.

Don't judge a book and all of that..

Main thing that annoys me is the fact they took side missions from SR2 and forced them in as story missions.

The game is still loads of fun but there's a lot of "buts" behind it.

Also note those who have the PS3 version can use their online pass to download SR2 free.

And it's not like the assholes at ubisoft who make you download 7GB and you still need the disc to play AC1.

It seems developers these days don't have the slightest clue how a sequel is supposed to work. Like isn't a sequel supposed to improve on the previous one not detract from it?

Off topic but if any Ozzy wants to buy Yahtzee's Mogworld for Xmas, GO TO THENILE.

Here's the HL: http://www.thenile.com.au/books/Yahtzee-Croshaw/Mogworld/9781595825292/

Thought I'd finally check this out. Wanted to read it for soooo long but couldn't be arsed to go through Amazon.

PS. FREE SHIPPING for Xmas! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh

From what I hear, a lot of the content was cut to be repackaged as DLC, which you will be charged for.

I do find it amusing that only just a few days ago he wrote a column complaining about Skyrim's character creation being too complex and pointless having too many options, and then just now complains about SR3's being too simple and that he cant tilt his bowler's hat in a particular direction. That being said i played SR3 and agree with practically everything he said in this review, and this is probably the first time where for me atleast it rang true as a genuine review as opposed to a satirical hate-filled entertainment piece as every point he mad is spot on.

cassiebearRAWR:

Care to expand on that?

What, particularly is in need of expansion here?

Am I the only one who thought that Stilwater was more like San Francisco than NYC?

Maybe I'm crazy.

Theres so much more needed to be said i think the video could have been longer...i love SR2 and SR3 isn't bad...but it has less contend and half the stuff there trying to sell you was ALREADY on the disc...

thing i miss the most is having fist fights with the cops im getting so tired of being shot at...

Prof. Monkeypox:
Ha! Nice little callback at the end.

Anyway, yeah, something I noticed about SR3 (without even playing it, mind) was that it was trying to hard to be "wacky."

If the very first shop you enter lets you buy a nine-foot dildo (along more conventional weapons, mind) then they're basically just giving you things they find hilarious, not letting you find your own hilarity.

Ideally "the penetrator" should be a hard-to-find weapon in a fetish shop that needs to be hunted down.

It should be like a Dead Rising thing:
"Hum de dum, oh a new store, let me check it out."
"Oh, I can buy leather gear, that's kind of funny I guess, maybe I'll buy a..."
"what's that in the corner, it looks like a dildo but..."
"what, I can pick it up? Swing it around"
"Ha! What will it do to this pedestrian! OMG this is awesome!"

It's a lot less funny when they just hand it to you at the start.

Besides, it's a shame you can't make a fat gangster anymore.

First, don't judge a game you haven't played. You're just putting out reasons other people like or don't like the game without forming an original opinion of your own. Instead you're putting out an opinion that you haven't verified and you might disagree with had you actually played it. That being said there are bunch of unlockable and hard to reach stuff.

And as far as the helicopters and all that goes. It makes sense in the context of the game. The Saints are millionaires in control of the Ultor corporation, now Saints Ultor, from the end of the last game. They have comic books, fans, movie deals, energy drink deals. Their HQ is in Stillwater though but they have pretty unlimited resources from being in control of a multimillion dollar corporation. Why wouldn't they have a fleet of helis? Just like any massive company.

*deep breath*

OHMIGODHEUSEDASILHOUETTEOFATLANTATHAT'SSOCOOL!

Why yes I'm from Atlanta, how did you guess?

Did Yahtzee play as a man or a woman?

WOAH!
Female Yahtzee... I don't know weather to be turned on

or shiver in disgust!

I much prefered Saints Row 3 over Saints Row 2. Saints Row 2 did have much better pacing, I'll agree to that much. And the story actually did mean something instead of just random skips all over the place. But I had so much more pure, blind fun with 3. I really didn't care for 2 that much. There were way too many freaking side jobs, most of which weren't very good if you ask me. And the problem is you didn't know which of those would give you a good reward and which would be BS.

SR3, on the other hand, had me play through every single job, some multiple times. I loved the Genki bits. Though I do agree that lack of context other then Pierce telling you to go to the first one made it a bit pointless overall.

One more thing that was never mentioned that I greatly prefered about 3 was the leveling system. I loved the way it was handled where you could choose your abilities and use money you earned to pay for them. But they were more then a little overpowered... you could literally get infinite ammo for all weapons and become immune to all types of damage. The game becomes boring after that point. I also liked the way the hourly income could be accessed at any time using the in-game phone.

Zachary Amaranth:

cassiebearRAWR:

Care to expand on that?

What, particularly is in need of expansion here?

What exactly do you think the definitions of "transsexual" and "genderqueer" are, for starters?

DataSnake:
There's a bowler hat available...as part of an on-disc DLC pack. I WISH I was kidding.

You can also buy one from Planet Saints. Funny that.. ;) I bought a bowler hat with darker red/black right away :D

canadamus_prime:
It seems developers these days don't have the slightest clue how a sequel is supposed to work. Like isn't a sequel supposed to improve on the previous one not detract from it?

In a lot of respects, I think SR3 did improve upon SR2. The core gameplay is much better and the addition of mini-bosses means that you can't just go on a rampage at the start of the game, easily score a really badass armored vehicle turning most of the missions into a cake-walk by using that vehicle as much as possible. The new weapons are tons of fun and mixing grenades into the action is far simpler. And the main story missions are a hell of a lot of fun and often delightfully over-the-top.

The big problems I see are:

1) An unfocused single player campaign. SR2 featured lots of cool characters, but their involvement in the main story was often minimal. SR3 similarly had a lot of cool characters, but they were all shoved into the main story, so it didn't feel like you were discovering them, simply having them foisted upon you. They also stepped on their emotional beats, so the death of a major character has you waiting for him to return, rather than seeking revenge. Even the finale, you're basically offered up a choice between your homies or revenge against someone who was barely a speed bump on your road to continued power.

2) Lack of depth. For the first time since SR1, they created a city from scratch... and like the original there wasn't tons of cool things to find. SR2 had underground pedestrian walkways that you'd probably never go in during a regular playthrough and secret islands and all sorts of great touches that simply weren't there in SR3. The big difference was SR2 was refining a pre-existing game world and instead of creating a completely new environment, expanded upon the first.

3) The activities simply weren't up to scratch. In the second game, they were either an extension of the sorts of things you were doing in the main missions (Snatch or Escort) or an over-the-top diversion from it (Septic Avenger or Insurance Fraud). I'm currently replaying SR2 and there's a couple of times where the gameplay is really similar to the Activities, such as Gat's journey to the hospital being very similar to the Drug Trafficking activity. But SR3 ramped up the main missions to the point where something like Snatch was a significant gameplay downgrade. The Professor Genki show, while being little more than a wacky Hogan's Alley, at least felt like it belonged in the same game as an aerial tank battle. And while I'm grateful there's not six instances of an activity at every location (making the activities a serious grind in SR2), only one instance is too few.

4) Bonuses... while I like the leveling system with bonuses available for each level, there's simply not enough bonuses for the various challenges and activities. Without tangible rewards, why bother completing all the challenges. There should be a bonus item or skill for every single one of those... I get 50 nutshots, I want a cod-piece added to my wardrobe. And the more cheat-like skills like immunity to bullets, make them cheat-codes not a way to continue the game without an ounce of challenge.

Netrigan:

canadamus_prime:
It seems developers these days don't have the slightest clue how a sequel is supposed to work. Like isn't a sequel supposed to improve on the previous one not detract from it?

In a lot of respects, I think SR3 did improve upon SR2. The core gameplay is much better and the addition of mini-bosses means that you can't just go on a rampage at the start of the game, easily score a really badass armored vehicle turning most of the missions into a cake-walk by using that vehicle as much as possible. The new weapons are tons of fun and mixing grenades into the action is far simpler. And the main story missions are a hell of a lot of fun and often delightfully over-the-top.

The big problems I see are:

1) An unfocused single player campaign. SR2 featured lots of cool characters, but their involvement in the main story was often minimal. SR3 similarly had a lot of cool characters, but they were all shoved into the main story, so it didn't feel like you were discovering them, simply having them foisted upon you. They also stepped on their emotional beats, so the death of a major character has you waiting for him to return, rather than seeking revenge. Even the finale, you're basically offered up a choice between your homies or revenge against someone who was barely a speed bump on your road to continued power.

2) Lack of depth. For the first time since SR1, they created a city from scratch... and like the original there wasn't tons of cool things to find. SR2 had underground pedestrian walkways that you'd probably never go in during a regular playthrough and secret islands and all sorts of great touches that simply weren't there in SR3. The big difference was SR2 was refining a pre-existing game world and instead of creating a completely new environment, expanded upon the first.

3) The activities simply weren't up to scratch. In the second game, they were either an extension of the sorts of things you were doing in the main missions (Snatch or Escort) or an over-the-top diversion from it (Septic Avenger or Insurance Fraud). I'm currently replaying SR2 and there's a couple of times where the gameplay is really similar to the Activities, such as Gat's journey to the hospital being very similar to the Drug Trafficking activity. But SR3 ramped up the main missions to the point where something like Snatch was a significant gameplay downgrade. The Professor Genki show, while being little more than a wacky Hogan's Alley, at least felt like it belonged in the same game as an aerial tank battle. And while I'm grateful there's not six instances of an activity at every location (making the activities a serious grind in SR2), only one instance is too few.

4) Bonuses... while I like the leveling system with bonuses available for each level, there's simply not enough bonuses for the various challenges and activities. Without tangible rewards, why bother completing all the challenges. There should be a bonus item or skill for every single one of those... I get 50 nutshots, I want a cod-piece added to my wardrobe. And the more cheat-like skills like immunity to bullets, make them cheat-codes not a way to continue the game without an ounce of challenge.

Well I'll have to take your word for all of that as I've never actually played a Saint's Row game. I was mostly talking about the altogether too common practice of removing or, heaven help me, streamlining features when sequel time roles around. Esp. when it's done to features that people liked. Presumably those would be the features you'd want to improve upon in the sequel, not remove or dumb-down. ...oh pardon me, "streamline."

Little storytime, here...

When I first got Saints Row 3, it was midnight release; I was ecstatic, like most everyone else, I'm sure. I got home, instantly rebuilt my fairly faithful representation of myself, just like I did with SR2... except now I was more muscular, which was disappointing, but eh, I didn't care much, so long as the face looked like mine to the best of my ability.

I started playing, was pretty fun. I looked around for clothes cause I was keen to see if I could duplicate one of my normal outfits, like I had in SR2. Sadly, I could not. However, I could still make something similar and that made me happy. Didn't have many outfits on my male character, really.

Anyways, played through the game, got the "bad" ending (which'll probably be canon after everyone's reactions to the overall game, unfortunately). I had intended to replay it as a female character so I could get the good ending, as well as the other two "path" achievements. I thought I'd done a really good job creating someone out of a few stories I'd written some years ago.. only to find out later she looked disturbingly like Amy Pond (gods, it's like she was pulled outta my mind).

So, I go to play as a female, thinking "I can't wait to dress her up in some interesting outfits!". I had kind of ignored the female clothing when I played through, so I hadn't noticed by now that the choice was.. limited. Like, "you'll be playing as a stripper or a whore, so get used to it", kinda limited... *sigh*

Thankfully, I found a nice outfit that looks remarkably like the one Amy wore in the later episodes of Season 5 (series 32, I think), with the coat, the business skirt, and some boots, even did the colouring as close as possible.

But yeah, it was while playing as a female character that I realized just how lacking the game was. Not only that, it was during the second play through I realized I had MISSED missions, because half of the missions are now merely activities with no cutscenes and a bit of phone call dialogue. I'm kinda surprised Yahtzee didn't comment on the ability to SKIP them by having already done them.

So I guess the conclusion is thus: First time I played through SR3, I loved the whole damn thing. Second time I played through it, I got a better look and realized all the flaws people'd been going on about while I was happily ignoring them.

What else can I say? It's still a fun game, but I am rather disappointed by the end result. And what the HELL happened to Professor Genki's voice? I loved the terrible Engrish voice used in the trailer for the Pre-order bonus...

EDIT: Gods I HAVE to mention this part, I totally forgot until I read the post above this. To people bitching about the "Immunity" bonuses.. piss off. Let people play it however gods-damned they want in single player. I get so fucking tired of companies giving us things like immunity or infinite ammo, and then slapping us on the wrist for using it. I worked my butt and got to Level 50, give me the gods-damned Invincibility, already.

Hell, I made a point of it by my third playthrough to GET Level 50, or as close to it, before I even started the majority of the missions. That's how I like playing these kinds of games, even though I played it through "legit" the first time (didn't get the bonuses until after I finished the game, regretted it).

You know those developers that like to give you some gods-forsakenly difficult challenge that, when you complete, has essentially finished the game but still gives you something awesome? You're like "wow, thanks, where the HELL was this when I needed it earlier?" Yeah, that's how I feel, too. So THANK YOU, Saints Row 3, thank you for finally doing what more developers need to do. Make the "cheats" into bonuses that we can earn during gameplay and still use without being penalized for achievements and such.

Gods, buncha whiny kids these days, making me really feel my age. Sorry, that's not really at anyone specific, it's just something I get really tired of people complaining about. It sure didn't kill it for me (never does), and if you don't like it, don't friggin use it. I just don't see why people keep harping on about it making games unbalanced.. it's a REWARD for reaching the last few levels, not a mandatory feature. I've said before somewhere else that if you'd had the ability to turn them off, people probably wouldn't bitch so much about them.

..but you know what? I get the feeling people would, which just makes me sad. Much like a good diet soda nobody buys and then it gets removed, whenever a rare feature I like comes around, people cry about it, and then watch, it'll get removed next game.

canadamus_prime:

Well I'll have to take your word for all of that as I've never actually played a Saint's Row game. I was mostly talking about the altogether too common practice of removing or, heaven help me, streamlining features when sequel time roles around. Esp. when it's done to features that people liked. Presumably those would be the features you'd want to improve upon in the sequel, not remove or dumb-down. ...oh pardon me, "streamline."

They removed a fair bit, but SR2 had all sorts of diversions and stunts, which really weren't that much fun. Seriously, there's a tow truck diversion which they thankfully chucked over the side, as it was just tedious and frustrating... and your only reward for doing it was a pimped out tow truck and progress on an achievement. Really, a lot of it was there just to give the achievement hunters something to do. Yes, I've spent more time than I should have getting a three gold star wheelie for no other reason than to do it.

So, most of the stuff removed from Saints Row 3 doesn't really affect the game much at all. The problem is that they didn't add a bunch of new diversions and activities to keep the interest of long-time players. I got 100% Achievements in 50 hours of game play, and I never really felt like I was grinding this stuff out... and I think this is why critics have liked SR3 more than SR2. But there's something a bit unrewarding about being able to nickle-and-dime your way to a Jumping Challenge, instead of having to perform a three gold star jump.

SR3 is sort of two steps forward, one step back. I'm currently replaying SR2 and I'm constantly wishing that I could jump into cars or that cops & gangs would present anything resembling a challenge. But I love that there's always something you can try to achieve, like figuring out how to feather a three gold star stoppie, which is freakin' hard... and you do that until some other form of big fun comes along.

SO TRUE.
There seemed like there was a general lacking of cut-scenes in that game altogether.
There was one mission that I remember where it started with maybe a couple second long cut scene where my character talked to Zimos about how we were going to attack the Morningstar. It sudently faded out and my character woke up in a closet of the stronghold, naked, and stumbling around like he had gotten into the raw ether.
I thought to myself, "wow I would have like to see how I got here"

I also REALLY missed the side mission cut scenes.
And, just like the previous games it just seems like its giving stuff up too easily, with the only except (and I'm really thankful for ths one) unlimited ammo. I spent the whole game not buying upgrades on purpose.
Also there's a lot less side missions, especially the crazy ones from the second one.

THERE BETTER BE DLC THAT MAKES UP FOR ALL OF THIS. Especailly one where my character hooks up with the one Morningstar chick.

Zachary Amaranth:

Vausch:

That's becoming a real problem with the games industry, isn't it? I'm fine with DLC as a whole, it's a good concept and additional campaigns and stories that won't make or break the game are good ideas (Al-la Fallout 3/NV), but ones where the content seems like it was necessary and should have been on the original game to begin with, especially ones that give you the feeling that they planned to put it on the game then purposefully removed it.

Not to mention the game's significantly shorter with less content all around.

The fact that they have 40 weeks of DLC announced is indicative of the problem, too. Instead of keeping us playing with a lot of shit, they plan to make us pay to squeeze longevity out of a shallower game.

Let me be clear: I LIKE Saints Row the Third. I've spent a total of 60 hours across two saves, so I can't bash the game entirely, but it's a wholly shallow experience compared to the last game.

It's less fun, it's less content, it's less...Well, almost everything. Fewer choices, less story, etc. And that doesn't make me want to buy the DLC, it makes me want to put down the game when I'm bored.

SR2, I wanted DLC. I wanted more, more, MORE! And they didn't give us much. Then they gave us a new game, but severely crippled it, and decided "hey, we'll give you more if you pay us..."

Season pass for added content is 20 bucks. That's three mission packs, which will have to be pretty big to get us up to the same level of content as the last game, at a 20 dollar price increase. Not to mention, it doesn't cover all the DLC: Night Blade is a bonus pack in the season pass, but the cheats pack and Shark-o-Matic are two examples of DLC not included.

THQ talked about engaging the player. They don't want to engage us. that's what 2 did. The Third instead offers a way for us to keep paying.

Gmans uncle:
Yahtzee, I respect you as a journalist and a critic, (your actually the guy who got me into the biz) but I'm still buying this. Why? Because I've played waaaaaay too much counter strike lately, and I need something with a singularity of fun and zaniness to balance that out.

I'm not sure how "I respect you" would in any way need to be contrary to "I'm getting it."

It's almost like they're trying to make Saints Row into an R-rated Sims, when you get right down to it. Constantly releasing piece after piece to get more and more from people that already bought it.

Zachary Amaranth:

Vausch:

That's becoming a real problem with the games industry, isn't it? I'm fine with DLC as a whole, it's a good concept and additional campaigns and stories that won't make or break the game are good ideas (Al-la Fallout 3/NV), but ones where the content seems like it was necessary and should have been on the original game to begin with, especially ones that give you the feeling that they planned to put it on the game then purposefully removed it.

Not to mention the game's significantly shorter with less content all around.

The fact that they have 40 weeks of DLC announced is indicative of the problem, too. Instead of keeping us playing with a lot of shit, they plan to make us pay to squeeze longevity out of a shallower game.

Let me be clear: I LIKE Saints Row the Third. I've spent a total of 60 hours across two saves, so I can't bash the game entirely, but it's a wholly shallow experience compared to the last game.

It's less fun, it's less content, it's less...Well, almost everything. Fewer choices, less story, etc. And that doesn't make me want to buy the DLC, it makes me want to put down the game when I'm bored.

SR2, I wanted DLC. I wanted more, more, MORE! And they didn't give us much. Then they gave us a new game, but severely crippled it, and decided "hey, we'll give you more if you pay us..."

Season pass for added content is 20 bucks. That's three mission packs, which will have to be pretty big to get us up to the same level of content as the last game, at a 20 dollar price increase. Not to mention, it doesn't cover all the DLC: Night Blade is a bonus pack in the season pass, but the cheats pack and Shark-o-Matic are two examples of DLC not included.

THQ talked about engaging the player. They don't want to engage us. that's what 2 did. The Third instead offers a way for us to keep paying.

I'm hoping the first DLC adds a bunch of crazy over-the-top activities and diversions to the game. I've spent 60 hours playing it so far and will very likely replay it another couple of times because it is tons of fun... but without the massive amount of content (even if it's repetitive content) there's really not much reason to keep on playing.

Much as I bitch about the tow truck diversion in SR2 being no fun, one of these days, I'm going to finish it. Even though I think the sandbox in SR3 is more fun than in SR2, they need those seemingly never-ending goals to keep players motivated. And why they didn't put in more achievements, I don't know... those work as sandbox goals, too.

The progression in this game is based around money and upgrades (and respect level).
At least I've found, in hardcore mode, some missions are downright impossible without having purchased adequate upgrades.
(and when I find something impossible, it probably is .. 'cos I'm badass like that)
In fact, I found that the power curve makes more sense than Saints Row 2's, in which you can aim for unlimited rifle ammo ASAP, and pick up the best rifle in the game while doing so, making even hardcore difficulty almost trivial.

However, making your power level money-centric meant I bought property and did activities before they were shown to me by the game, and led to the whole "wtf what does this have to do with anything" business.
It's apparently a little more coherent if you focus on the main plot and do the activities later, which is the opposite of the way you play saints row 2.

I'll say that again.
It's a game that makes more sense to people who play it casually and are focused on the story.
WTF Saints Row, that's just not right.

In any case, I found that the main character's character creation is better than saint's row 2's. The inclusion of a neck width slider and beauty marks are awesome .. but STILL no way to adjust the character's height .. but I guess that's for cutscene purposes.
The clothing options were disappointing, however. Which is silly since you can't see a lot of the little details you can do with character creation once you're wearing one of your favourite outfits.

That conservative MP line really got me.

Netrigan:

I'm hoping the first DLC adds a bunch of crazy over-the-top activities and diversions to the game. I've spent 60 hours playing it so far and will very likely replay it another couple of times because it is tons of fun... but without the massive amount of content (even if it's repetitive content) there's really not much reason to keep on playing.

Much as I bitch about the tow truck diversion in SR2 being no fun, one of these days, I'm going to finish it. Even though I think the sandbox in SR3 is more fun than in SR2, they need those seemingly never-ending goals to keep players motivated. And why they didn't put in more achievements, I don't know... those work as sandbox goals, too.

I'm pretty sure we won't see a ton of new activities and diversions.

I don't blame you, and I'd like them to too, I just won't hold my breath. I'm pretty sure we're getting as little content as possible. This really isn't the same bunch of guys who gave you that seemingly endless pile of diversions. It's a company that charges for cheats and leaves clothing options locked behind on-disc DLC packs.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
Saints Row: The Third

This week, Zero Punctuation reviews Saints Row: The Third.

Watch Video

I had a lot of fun with SR3 and yet I can't find fault with anything said.

You only get the full costume options if you use the character generator, a separate 'client', to make a full-shop character using all the pieces available BUT it means creating a THQ login, uploading to their server and then downloading again. No local storage of the character files.

The cutscenes for each of the minigames now form part of the story (because the old Respect system was just so much fun when we ran out of mission currency). Angel tells you he's going to help you face your fear and then blam; next up you're in a car with a tiger and then you get the story cutscene afterwards explaining it's all about facing your fear. About as annoying as those sword sections in SR2 when you suddenly have a sense of honour (after murdering half the city of Stilwater).

Despite this I found it an incredibly enjoyable ride. My first playthrough hit 33 hours by the end of it. The 'good' ending did leave me feeling kind of empty. After the initial realisation about being corporate whores, the loss of a dear friend and being forced to start over; we get an ending that leaves you right back in the corporate saddle with an abrupt change in the tone. Sure, I got the choice of whether to save my friends but then it was like I'd turned two pages at once and was reading the next chapter. But then one of the DLCs is called 'Gangstas in Space' so I imagine the question being answered that way.

Everything I've seen of it stinks of "trying too hard". Reviews of it were genuinely embarrassing to watch.

A little surprised you didn't care for it, Yahtzee, as I haven't seen anything of the second game and wondered if this was perhaps the tone you would come to expect, and yet I am also not, given that you don't appear to have the taste of a mentally addled twelve year old.

Seems like it went just over the top of the "immature fun" curve. Or maybe it just appears to be that way because the player is building up "wacky fatigue" that was reduced by the more serious bits in the prequel.

The reason why HL2 threw puzzles and vehicle section at you in regular intervals, so you wouldn't build up shooting fatigue.

It's almost as if the designers of the game listened to Yahtzee's review of Saint's Row 2 and didn't understand ANYTHING he said. Stupid gimmicks are fun only in the broader context of a GAME - if it's nothing but a grab-bag of stupid gimmicks then what's the point?