The Big Picture: Untransformed

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Oh great, another Bob rant about how Transformers fans are stupid, idiotic drooling morons and how he is the lone voice of smart reason.

Ugh, really, Escapist, you're actually paying him for writing these self-congratulatory, masturbation pieces that he's ALREADY DONE, not once, not even twice, but three times now!

With all your money troubles and such, you'd think that there would be better places and better people to spend the last few schillings on. Hell, I could point out people here on the forums and the commentators on these sections that would be less biased, more accurate and certainly a hell of a lot less judgmental, offensive and downright lazy than Bob.

And THAT'S the big picture.

"Bad Boys" is, hands down, the best Michael Bay Movie Ever Made. It's a dark comedy with a lot of heart. I think most of that is the restriction of budget made the people making it believe in what they were making. Bad Boys 2, on the other hand, is what happens when they had all the options in the world.

Now, this isn't saying a lot, looking at Michael Bay's repertoire.

Okay, actually, that Got Milk commercial is the Best Michael Bay Movie Ever Made.

ClanCrusher:
*Pauses the video right at the start.*

Okay, so since this is about transformers, Movie Bob is inevitably going to make some joke that a dozen or so people are going to take the wrong way, take personally, and complain about on the forum because they feel as though he attacked them personally. Usually a sure sign that what he said really hit a nerve.

*Pauses the video at 1:42*

Oh heck no, he just used the word nimrod. He is now officially given the forum all it needs to hate and slander his name again, although every single one of these people will likely come back to see his videos next week, the week after, and likely all the way up to his next transformers review where we can all do this same chant and dance one more time and I can make yet another forum post like this, one more time.

Let's see the lineup.

Kanatatsu:
This was so snotty and condescending it makes me want to give Bob a swirly just on general principle.

Casual Shinji:
Way to contradict yourself... again. *points to The Phantom Menace episode*

Oh, and nice one on insulting the fans of these movies... again.

Seriously, Bob; Grow up.

FelixG:
Wow, bob insulting people who happen to not agree with him.

If I didn't know better I would think he was an average forum goer!

anthony87:
Christ Bob, rein in the fucking elitism a bit would you?

Jimmybobjr:
Im hating Bob More and more every single episode he does.

I mean, god. Sucessful movies are sucessful for a reason, man.

And there you have it. I guess Movie Bob got it spot on when he said, "Sometimes you really can see these things coming."

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! I'm included! ^_^

Although I fail to see how what I said or what any of the other people shows any impression of taking it personally. I'm not actually what someone would consider a fan of the Transformers movies, sure I've seen the first two but if someone was to bring them up it'd just be thinking "Meh" the whole time so I have no reason to take what he said personally.

I just happen to think that taking every opportunity you can to say degrading things about people just for liking a certain movie is the wrong way to go about discussing things. While watching the video I couldn't shake this vibe of "we don't take kindly to you folk around here" which I think is elitist as hell which is shame because Bob is very good at what he does when he's not using a video just to rant about how stupid people are.

Yes, I'll watch his videos next week because I'm a big fan of his videos. Just because I'm a fan doesn't mean I have to agree with and hang onto every single word he says. Hell, not agreeing with him on a particular point/video usually leads to good discussion in the forums with the people who do agree.

And on that note I'll bid you adieu. Perhaps next time you should try contributing to the thread instead of just rushing to the online defense of someone who really doesn't need it. Not that I see any problem with something like that, in fact I think it's kinda cute ^_^

Jimmybobjr:
Im hating Bob More and more every single episode he does.

I mean, god. Sucessful movies are sucessful for a reason, man.

Because they're POPULAR, which does not necessarily mean they're GOOD. Did you love the popular kids when you were in high school? Did you say "Wow, those kids are popular for a reason. They deserve it."

By your logic, Jersey Shore is at least 5 times better than Firefly because it's been renewed for so many more seasons, and Justin Bieber is probably better than your favorite band.

Strain42:

Jimmybobjr:
Im hating Bob More and more every single episode he does.

I mean, god. Sucessful movies are sucessful for a reason, man.

Because they're POPULAR, which does not necessarily mean they're GOOD. Did you love the popular kids when you were in high school? Did you say "Wow, those kids are popular for a reason. They deserve it."

By your logic, Jersey Shore is at least 5 times better than Firefly because it's been renewed for so many more seasons, and Justin Bieber is probably better than your favorite band.

They're popular for a reason, mr circular logic.

Popular, successful movies often have a broader appeal, are easier to understand, and have a grand scale that can be appreciated on a universal level. Transformers, Avatar, Star Wars, Titanic, all those movies have simple plots, a huge cast of characters, at least one of which is likely to appeal to you, and massive settings with huge stakes. Some cleverdicks may find these stories clichéd, mawkish, or possessing reprehensible messages, but they are still likely to have paid to watch the movie anyway.

Good episode. A little rant-y, but I leaned.

Also, the "Idoacracy" stills made me laugh everytime they were shown. Love that movie.

Michael Bay doesn't do anything to get people to show up to the films. It's the Transformers name itself that does all the leg work.

Strain42:

Jimmybobjr:
Im hating Bob More and more every single episode he does.

I mean, god. Sucessful movies are sucessful for a reason, man.

Because they're POPULAR, which does not necessarily mean they're GOOD. Did you love the popular kids when you were in high school? Did you say "Wow, those kids are popular for a reason. They deserve it."

By your logic, Jersey Shore is at least 5 times better than Firefly because it's been renewed for so many more seasons, and Justin Bieber is probably better than your favorite band.

Uhh, no shit?

I mean, i was under the assumption that Beiber and Jersey were hates Because They were popular.

Why is beiber popular? Because girls all around the world live his singing. Just because the part of the internet that hates him and his music exists, doesnt mean that his music is bad. I know that, quite litteraly, almost every single girl that was in my Highschool science class loved bieber, loved twilight and loved the flaunt both of them around.

Yes, i hate them. But just because i hate them doesnt mean that they arent good to someone.

Let me put it this way; My favorite books?? Matthew Reilly's. (Look it up) Why arent they popular? Because not a whole bunch of people like reading longer books written by an Australian who writes about American conspiracies. Why is twilight popular? Because Millions of girls all around the world Want to read a book about a strong romance book.
The same thing applies to music; The Beiber is more popular than my favourite band, Korpiklaani, because the genre of music is more enjoyable to the greater masses. Folk/Metal just doesnt resonate with either the Lovey-Pop music crowd, or the Rap/Dubstep crowd, for what i presume are obvious reasons.

Taking it one step further; Popular people are popular for a reason.

I wasnt popular in school. Why? Cause im probably that fattest person in Western Australia. Have been for years. Why was someone else popular? Becuase they were
a) Rich, therefore able to squander cash and invite people over to the no doubt rich homes, b) Good at sports, therefore (In a sporty country; where sports are a massive part of school life) people would automatically try and join the (Litteral) Winning team, and
c) Were a much better alternative to being friends with the obese short guy who was only known for enjoying "Video Games" Such as "Kingdom Hearts".

So yes, popular people are popular for a reason, and, whether by fate or design, they deserve it.

Now i would love to debunk that Jersey shore/FireFly thing, but i cant. Mainly because Jersey shore isnt a Australian thing, and i have no idea what it is, and i saw FireFly, but Didnt like it.

(FakeEdit: Upon some quick googling, i cant find a single mention of Jersey Shore airing in Australia, the only direct reference was someone called Snooki "Comming to Australia" at some point. The only knowledge i have of this show is off Memebase, so im not even including that in my responce)

And Hawkeye looks like...Like you can't win 'em all I guess.

Stilkon:
I honestly don't think that anyone who was disappointed by the last three movies is going to be hopeful for this one.

They were hopeful for the last one, and the one before that.

Pattern recognition is not strong in fanboys. Beyond that, it furthers the cycle by generating even more outrage. What's worse than a shitty Transformers movie? A shitty Transformers movie when you're expecting a good one. Or at least a decent one.

Same happened with Star Wars and Spider-Man (More with the former, because the number of people who hated it were higher).

Rocky and Bullwinkle were before my time, but they ran like crazy in syndication when I was young. You could see 'em on like ten channels. This is going somewhere, trust me.

So there was this bit that served as a bumper between segments, where Bullwinkle would say he was going to pull a Rabbit out of his hat. There were four variants, none of which produced a rabbit. One features Rocky saying "that trick never works," and another Bullwinkle says "This time for sure."

I think people in general tend to suffer from this, from politics to entertainment. We Tip Our Hats to the New Revolution, Pick Up Our Guitars and Play, and Get Down On Our Knees and Pray....We Don't Get Fooled Again. It's like, a natural human tendency. But it's always worse with the fanatics, be they comic fanatics or religious zealots.

And in all cases, it usually ends up being "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

"This time, for sure!"

A lot of the people who hate the movies go back for just this reason. A lot of people who bitched about Transformers: Another Brick in the Wall will be back for this "Reboot." Just like pretty much everyone I knew who hated Star Wars: Episode 1 went back to see Attack of the Clones.

370999:
I love the whole us and them aspect to this. The nimrdo nation compared to Bob's sophisticated lovers of cinema who enjoy the fine film of G.I Joe and engage in intelligent discussions of the perkiness of an actress breasts while stating their opposition to misogyny.

XD. Yeah, love the contradiction of going crazy over Transformers but loving GI Joe.

Because action movies with a lot of explosions are for dumb people...Unless Snake Eyes is in it.

MovieBob:

Casual Shinji:

When has it become the general assumtion that someone's taste is in direct connection to their inteligence? Bob himself is a rather smart fellow, yet he likes movies such as Sucker Punch. Does that mean he's an idiot who shouldn't be allowed to operate vehicles? No, it means he's a guy who likes the occasional crap film. He's no different from the people who happen to like the Transformers movies.

Alright, responding to this is probably a mistake on my part but I've had about enough of this particular point - the Sucker Punch thing, I mean.

Firstly, there is a difference between a movie (or any other piece of art) being smart/stupid/meaningful/shallow and being GOOD or BAD (or "well-executed" or poorly-executed) in any one person's opinion. I don't "expect" everyone to call, "Sucker Punch" GOOD; but that it's NOT a "stupid" film - that it's actually slightly over-stuffed with IDEAS, meaning, layers of symbolism both thematic and visual, genuine imagination and actually attempts (with mixed results, to be sure) to actual SAY something is objectively provable simply by watching it... which I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you did. It is, in as measurable a way as possible, a smarter movie than any of the Transformers films (which are OPENLY "about" as little as possible); to the point that there's really no discernable reason to compare them.

However, if you're looking for the "difference" between appreciating these two nothing-to-do-with-eachother films, it comes down to where the appreciation comes from. I can find you other legitimate reviews - positive and negative - of "Sucker Punch" aside from mine that found something intellectually engaging about the film. This is NOT as true for the "Transformers" films (though I'm sure a few can be found) whose most passionate defenders tend to come down on the side of "I just want to turn off my brain and watch the fireworks!" "not every movie has to be high-art!" or some variation thereof.

Just because Sucker Punch tried to be clever, doesn't mean it was actually all that clever. I personally don't understand the rationale that trying to seem intelligent and failing makes a movie a whole lot better than another movie that doesn't bother to try and seem intelligent.

I also don't see how, regardless of whether either movie actually has intellectual merit, how you can say that being willing to appreciate a non-intellectual film is an indication of a lack of intelligence in comparison to those who don't like the non-intellectual film. Just because you don't see merit in a movie, doesn't mean that those who can see merit in it are brainwashed members of the masses who can't think for themselves.

I get the feeling that the people holding up the common person as the pinnacle of intellect and taste haven't spent much time around the common person.

The epidemic of people who eat nothing but fast food and don't exercise only to say there is nothing they can do about their weight. The people who dress in such bad taste that it can support a website called People of Walmart. The people who think lottery tickets are a great retirement plan. The people when you say what's the last book you read have to think back to their childhood when they were forced to read in school. The people who watch Jersey Shore in large enough numbers to make the cast celebrities.

If loving bland predictable movies with cutting edge special effects was the only thing pointing to the common person being an idiot maybe you'd have a case for it's just taste, but there is too much stupid out there to claim popularity equals quality.

The funniest part though is how people get all mad because somehow they have never done anything stupid in their lives. I'm not the world's smartest person but at least I'm smart enough to say I've done some stupid things and made some bad decisions.

ZippyDSMlee:

Vausch:

ZippyDSMlee:

I tend to hate subpar films but I found GL to be ok at best the worest thing about it was it was draggy. It was hella better than Ghost rider/Batman 4(the one before bale)/Xmen 3/Spiderman 3(and reboot >> lulz),All the TF films,ect,ect,ect,ect,ect.

I just have seen far worse and far better.

I'd have to say in terms of terrible, it's much worse than Spiderman 3 (I liked it, I know the flaws and what was missed out on, but I hold it much higher than other "bad" superhero movies) and I'd put GL about on par with the 90s Captain America. See, the biggest problems I had with it were what they did to Parallax, they never expound upon the rings' weakness to yellow, the CGI is very sub-par, the entire movie looks like it has a green film over it, we never find out what happened to Amanda Waller, they let Hal keep the most powerful weapon in the universe after quitting the GL corps, Sinestro has NO REASON to take the yellow ring (you can't even say it's because he wants power, that is NEVER given any foreshadowing and reason), and as an added kick to the teeth the movie is way too loud at the "ABLOOGY WOOGY WOO" moments. I'm not even talking like the theatre was too loud, it had to be the sound in the movie itself because it was just as bad when I saw it at home.

I saw the both bad CA films and yet say that GL is simply not that bad, now the Xmen films treated the lore worse IMO but were a tad better paced but all in all I could stand GL more.

Just an FYI, there's 3 bad CA movies. The 70s one got a sequel.

You may be right but honestly I haven't seen X 3. Just never bought it or felt a reason to see it. I'd say it's probably on par with the post 2000 Fantastic 4 movies. If you ask why I say "post 2000", they got a movie in 1994 that was so terrible it was never released. Like the JLA movie.

MovieBob is like Peggy from King of the Hill. Averange (at best) at everything but thinks he is really smart.

MovieBob:

Crushing our idealized hopes yet again.

I love Bob, I seriously do. He's every Critic cliché rolled into one package and not only existing in a fictional setting.
He's elitist? Check.
He's somewhat of a giant douche? Check?
He loves pointing out how much better and smarter he is than everyone else? Check!

I'm going to be brutally clear here: I don't give a flying **** what Transformers "fans" think. I'm one and I loved two of the three movies, so did a bunch of other fans i know as well, but we're not the point. The point here is when I see my nephew watching these films and saying "I love Transformers!" and then becoming the next generation of Transformer enthusiast.

It took me a while to figure out actually, but about a year ago I realized: Some Transformers fans would rather see the brand die and exist only in their little minds rather than changing with the times. They don't want another generation to get to experience it, they consider themselves the last worthy ones.

Bob just stop it. Continuing to insult people because of their choice of movie is not something anyone older than 12 should be doing. I agree with you on a lot of things but you go about by insullting those you disagree with continuously. Your just an elitist prick and episodes like this show it. I dont have a problem with these movies and my dad enjoys them a lot. Neither of us are retarded. But according to Bob I shouldnt be aloud to drive or vote because im too stupid. I mean I must be because I dont despise every bit of these movies. Grow up Bob. You wouldnt say what you say about these people to their faces so why say it at all.

Also on the movies being like the comics and actually being good and true to the source material. Those movies make huge amounts of money. They clearly work and "the average moviegoer" seems to have better taste than you think otherwise they would have flopped rather than being the biggest movies in hollywood.

I love War For Cybertron game, it really portrays the 80s G1 cartoon very well. It also has an interesting story.

But Michael Bay movies really really suck.
In lots of website, I see some weird people argue that "what you expect from a movie that some robots fighting" for the complains of the movies.
Yes, but, that's the problem. Transformers is about robots fighting. And in a Transformers movie, I want "ROBOTS FIGHTING!". I don't want to see Megan Fox, I don't want to see weird looking Shia Labeouf, I don't want to see army pornography, I don't want to see prismatic cgi... I just want to see the robots.

I wish Dreamweave made those movies, like the rebooted Marvel movies.

Yes, the next transformers is (for better or worse)
going to be exactly like the previous installments,
for pretty much the same reasons movieBob lists.

I also think the high production costs of rendering giant
transforming CGI-robot versus the generic romantic sub-plot,
might factor in.

Bonecrusherr:
I love War For Cybertron game, it really portrays the 80s G1 cartoon very well. It also has an interesting story.

But Michael Bay movies really really suck.
In lots of website, I see some weird people argue that "what you expect from a movie that some robots fighting" for the complains of the movies.
Yes, but, that's the problem. Transformers is about robots fighting. And in a Transformers movie, I want "ROBOTS FIGHTING!". I don't want to see Megan Fox, I don't want to see weird looking Shia Labeouf, I don't want to see army pornography, I don't want to see prismatic cgi... I just want to see the robots.

I wish Dreamweave made those movies, like the rebooted Marvel movies.

G1 had Spike, Chip, Daniel and Carly.
The Unicron Trilogy had some of the most horrible humans ever.
The old comics had Spike, Daniel, G.B Blackrock etc.
Transformers Animated had Sari.
Transformers Prime had those three brats who's death cannot come soon enough.

Transformers has basically never been about robots fighting. The only ones who half-arsedly tried to give that to us fans were Dreamwave and IDW. then McCarthy ruined that part about IDW too.
You want to know why? Even if you and me would love to see the war solely from the Transformer's perspective, that won't sell to the broad masses who are needed to make the movie earn a profit.
I learned this a long time ago when I prayed for the next Transformers cartoon to be like The War Within.
Then again, Transformers: Prime is damn good.

While nearly everything that Bob does is at least well researched, every once in a while he really hits it home. Great video, one of my favorites thus far.

Think of how stupid the average person is and realize half of them are stupider than that. - George Carlin

Ok great, if you don't like it then stop watching them, it's not like the Transformers movie from the 80's or the cartoons are going anywhere. Although when I saw them I thought they were ok (I don't think Megan Fox is hot so that was just generic to me) but now re-watching them I don't remember anything from them, the story seemed to be short while going in all of actuality forever because it was broken up by some cheap humor, while not great not horrible just shit teenagers do when they can't come up with any conversation. Although now watching them again I admit they're terrible and I got pretty bored after a 5 minutes.

Casual Shinji:
Way to contradict yourself... again. *points to The Phantom Menace episode*

Oh, and nice one on insulting the fans of these movies... again.

Seriously, Bob; Grow up.

Honestly I thought he was merely reinforcing it, he didn't say that Episode 2 and 3 were good in that review, just that episode 1 was ok and not as bad. Although insulting an entire group of people because they do something for fun that you don't like I agree is retarded, "herp ok I guess my PhD degree means nothing and that I am a retard because I like Transformers", what you like for entertainment is totally unrelated to how smart you are really.

"The intelligence of that creature known as a crowd is the square root of the number of people in it."
― Terry Pratchett, Jingo

Casual Shinji:
Way to contradict yourself... again. *points to The Phantom Menace episode*

Oh, and nice one on insulting the fans of these movies... again.

Seriously, Bob; Grow up.

I second this motion. I'm so tired of Bob's whining about movies he doesn't like. Hey, Bob, if you think the movie is dumb, just say so and then shut up about it, but don't be surprised if someone likes it anyway. Too many of his positive reviews (especially when he raves about something) have lead to disappointment when the movie is just average (I'm looking at you, Scott Pilgrim). I'm sure I'll catch flak from fanboys for that one.

but i liked the transformers movies

SpiderJerusalem:
Oh great, another Bob rant about how Transformers fans are stupid, idiotic drooling morons and how he is the lone voice of smart reason.

Ugh, really, Escapist, you're actually paying him for writing these self-congratulatory, masturbation pieces that he's ALREADY DONE, not once, not even twice, but three times now!

With all your money troubles and such, you'd think that there would be better places and better people to spend the last few schillings on. Hell, I could point out people here on the forums and the commentators on these sections that would be less biased, more accurate and certainly a hell of a lot less judgmental, offensive and downright lazy than Bob.

And THAT'S the big picture.

Burn.

CronoT:
Bob, I just had a realization. Remember how foreign films critics AT THE TIME were always harping on the low budget and stilted acting of the Godzilla films from Toho? Those are considered classics of the film genre now.

Funny, growing up with Godzilla films I never thought they were bad movies. Japan's way of making movies differs from American ways of making movies. In fact, many Japanese movies still, insofar as I know, use people in suits for monster films while the US insists on lackluster CGI with no presence. At least when you saw Godzilla, you knew he was actually there and not something cooked up on a computer over the weekend.

Anyways, I really have tried hard to pretend the second Transformers movie didn't exist. The first one was okay-ish, but largely disappointing. The only one that I felt was any good was the third one, and that may have been due to Leonard Nimoy being in it.

Oh, and 370999.. please don't get me started on how much I hate people making a fuss about how sexy an actress is while stating their opposition to misogyny, please don't. I have enough issue with that in the game industry. :p

NortherWolf:
G1 had Spike, Chip, Daniel and Carly.
The Unicron Trilogy had some of the most horrible humans ever.
The old comics had Spike, Daniel, G.B Blackrock etc.
Transformers Animated had Sari.
Transformers Prime had those three brats who's death cannot come soon enough.

Transformers has basically never been about robots fighting. The only ones who half-arsedly tried to give that to us fans were Dreamwave and IDW. then McCarthy ruined that part about IDW too.
You want to know why? Even if you and me would love to see the war solely from the Transformer's perspective, that won't sell to the broad masses who are needed to make the movie earn a profit.
I learned this a long time ago when I prayed for the next Transformers cartoon to be like The War Within.
Then again, Transformers: Prime is damn good.

I think you're missing something, to be honest. Either you clearly didn't actually watch more than maybe a couple episodes of the shows you're talking about, or you really don't like kids and/or Humans at all. Well, it could also be that you just don't like the old material, since the one example you said was good was one of the most recent series.

The thing with the Transformers movies isn't that they HAD people, but that they had uninteresting people that often took center stage while the robots did their thing in the background. At least in the first two movies, it wasn't so bad in Dark of the Moon. You claim that Transformers was never about robots fighting, and yet that's what made up many of the cartoons. While Chip, Carly, and others certainly showed up from time to time, their roles were often backdrops to what was going on. Hell, the episode "Autobot Spike" had his brain put into an empty robot body and he goes crazy and we get lots of "robots fighting", so again I can't really see your point.

If the old show had something going against it, it would have been the lack of a consistent overarching storyline, but since this was the 80's and that was rarely done in those days, it just didn't happen with stuff like GI Joe, Thundar, and Voltron. The overall plots might move along after a while, but most of the episodes were still pretty standalone.

And honestly, the character of Sam and the others in the movies would've been better if they'd been better written. Trying to throw in cheap laughs that don't flow naturally, romantic subplots that weren't really necessary, AND low-brow sex-appeal (in a movie about robots) is really a large part of what undermined the movies' appeal.

Nigh Invulnerable:

Casual Shinji:
Way to contradict yourself... again. *points to The Phantom Menace episode*

Oh, and nice one on insulting the fans of these movies... again.

Seriously, Bob; Grow up.

I second this motion. I'm so tired of Bob's whining about movies he doesn't like. Hey, Bob, if you think the movie is dumb, just say so and then shut up about it, but don't be surprised if someone likes it anyway. Too many of his positive reviews (especially when he raves about something) have lead to disappointment when the movie is just average (I'm looking at you, Scott Pilgrim). I'm sure I'll catch flak from fanboys for that one.

Re: his positive reviews about a lot of movies (Suckerpunch, Scott Pilgrim, etc):

Marasai:
Nerds tend to have a kind of elitism about ourselves where we like to think we know better, and are better than regular people. See the level of complaint any time a nerd property is about to become mainstream. A freind actually said he was mad that Michael Bay was going to ruin TMNT. I had to explain to him that is impossible because TMNT was already incredibly stupid. But he was having none of it.

IN short, nerds don't like to think that we turn our brains off to enjoy things, so EVERYTHING has to be about something grander so the narrative we've constructed still frames us as the intellectual hero.

So someone who enjoys something he KNOWS to be bad, has to come up with some elaborate excuse. for why it is actually incredibly complex and the rest of them just 'don't get it'.

(comment found here: http://io9.com/5785590/)

minuialear:

Nigh Invulnerable:

Casual Shinji:
Way to contradict yourself... again. *points to The Phantom Menace episode*

Oh, and nice one on insulting the fans of these movies... again.

Seriously, Bob; Grow up.

I second this motion. I'm so tired of Bob's whining about movies he doesn't like. Hey, Bob, if you think the movie is dumb, just say so and then shut up about it, but don't be surprised if someone likes it anyway. Too many of his positive reviews (especially when he raves about something) have lead to disappointment when the movie is just average (I'm looking at you, Scott Pilgrim). I'm sure I'll catch flak from fanboys for that one.

Re: his positive reviews about a lot of movies (Suckerpunch, Scott Pilgrim, etc):

Marasai:
Nerds tend to have a kind of elitism about ourselves where we like to think we know better, and are better than regular people. See the level of complaint any time a nerd property is about to become mainstream. A freind actually said he was mad that Michael Bay was going to ruin TMNT. I had to explain to him that is impossible because TMNT was already incredibly stupid. But he was having none of it.

IN short, nerds don't like to think that we turn our brains off to enjoy things, so EVERYTHING has to be about something grander so the narrative we've constructed still frames us as the intellectual hero.

So someone who enjoys something he KNOWS to be bad, has to come up with some elaborate excuse. for why it is actually incredibly complex and the rest of them just 'don't get it'.

(comment found here: http://io9.com/5785590/)

Interesting response and link. I think this basically hits the nail on the head. People, in general, who are into something that is a little "underground" like to think it caters to their specific taste and always will, but then go berserk when it gets adapted and changed in a slight way they dislike. My own example would be the Hitchhiker's guide movie. Each version, tv, books, and radio, have been different from the others. Partly due to Douglas Adams desire to mess with people and partly because different mediums do things in distinct ways.

Bob seems to have problems with accepting the differences in mediums when a given IP changes and evolves. My thought is simply that if someone doesn't enjoy the newer version, just watch/read what you do enjoy.

Honestly, there will always be fun, bad films. Yeah it's a shame for Transformers fans that their franchise got cannibalised to make some, but is it really that big a deal? You wouldn't only read highbrow philosophical literature or only eat gourmet food. I think the apoplectic level of hate for Bay's films is far to high for what they really are. They're trashy action, not Nazi kitten hunting propaganda.

I am a proud member of the "Will Never Pay To See A Michael Bay Transformers Movie" I watched the first round a friends house, fucking hated it, the second looked like more of the same, I'll let you guess how that panned out, and the third looked like Shia Lebeofffffeff got fucked by the army and had an American Flag shitting propaganda baby.

Keep Bay away, as well as 90% of the human characters and my arse will be in that seat.

It is curious how Bob flips the switch from whiny entitled fanboy to elitist "calm down whiny entitled fanboys" rhetoric from video to video.

The point is simple, we get emotionally invested in something and if someone takes that from us and changes it we generally do not care for it (see: The book was much better argument ANY time a film is made).

I get where people come from, my younger years were peppered with the disappointment of Godzilla, Batman, Spider-Man, Phantom Menace, Transformers, etc. where existing properties were translated (in my view) poorly.

So, I was thrilled when Batman got another shot with Nolan and I enjoyed it, and I have hopes that Spider-Man might finally get a film about that character I enjoy. If not? Oh well. I, like many others, have lives filled with more things than if our beloved characters are mismanaged "ruins" us. I think perspective is often needed whenever we find ourselves declaring the decline of humanity or civilization based on a film.

While I liked the first and third Transformers films, I don't think we need another one. I have no idea where the movies can go from this point forward. How would you reboot it anyway this quickly? But there were discussions made about producing a theatrical movie based on Transformers Prime, I would pay to see that shit more than once! And Bob, I would just like to reccommend a few things here. If you really want to get your fill of better Transformers material, there are good Transformers cartoons out there aside from G1. (Or the original cartoon as you refer it to as)

How about Beast Wars? Yeah yeah, we've heard of how Transformers shouldn't be animals and we've heard the counter arguement to that, but seriously give Beast Wars a chance if you haven't. It has well developed characters, an amazing story that connects to G1 perfectly, and its not just for kids. It felt like Star Trek for some odd reason.

Transformers Animated is also very good. Yes, I was amoung the many who hated the new designs, but when you get past that, it has so much heart and soul put into it. It is also not just for kids, there are countless references to G1 in it, so much so it becomes fanservice.

Transformers Prime. Okay, even though I like 2 thirds of the movies, I still think that this is how the movies should be. Seriously, check this one out. The human characters do take some time to get used to but they don't constantly steal the attention and they do things other than scream and make stupid jokes. That and the Transformers are well developed, the animation is very good, and theres stories in it other than BOOM BOOM BOOM! That and the music is just fucking fantastic!

I would say that personally, I prefer this lot over G1. I love G1, it has likeable characters, it is very entertaining and it had a good movie, but theres so much about it thats so stupid compared to the rest.

As for the other Transformers cartoons, well Beast Machines isn't as good as Beast Wars but I thought it was okay, I don't care for the animes however. But seriously Bob, if you really hate these movies, which is fine, you'll find the three cartoons that I recommended to be such a delight. You'll properly never read this, but seriously, you'll be missing out on a lot of great stuff if you don't see Beast Wars, Animated or Prime.

Hiroshi Mishima:
[quote="CronoT" post="6.351577.13918010"]

I think you're missing something, to be honest. Either you clearly didn't actually watch more than maybe a couple episodes of the shows you're talking about, or you really don't like kids and/or Humans at all. Well, it could also be that you just don't like the old material, since the one example you said was good was one of the most recent series.

The thing with the Transformers movies isn't that they HAD people, but that they had uninteresting people that often took center stage while the robots did their thing in the background. At least in the first two movies, it wasn't so bad in Dark of the Moon. You claim that Transformers was never about robots fighting, and yet that's what made up many of the cartoons. While Chip, Carly, and others certainly showed up from time to time, their roles were often backdrops to what was going on. Hell, the episode "Autobot Spike" had his brain put into an empty robot body and he goes crazy and we get lots of "robots fighting", so again I can't really see your point.

If the old show had something going against it, it would have been the lack of a consistent overarching storyline, but since this was the 80's and that was rarely done in those days, it just didn't happen with stuff like GI Joe, Thundar, and Voltron. The overall plots might move along after a while, but most of the episodes were still pretty standalone.

And honestly, the character of Sam and the others in the movies would've been better if they'd been better written. Trying to throw in cheap laughs that don't flow naturally, romantic subplots that weren't really necessary, AND low-brow sex-appeal (in a movie about robots) is really a large part of what undermined the movies' appeal.

I've seen every episode of the shows I listed except Prime*shrugs*I've read every comic and own most of them.
And of course I hate the humans in the shows; they're horrible written annoyances. Which is why I didn't mind the humans in the live-action movies that much. They were all over the place, sure, but they were mostly tolerable. (Okay, except for Leo and Sam).
And my view of the old material is split. I understand the importance of it to me since it got me hooked to Transformers, but it's horribly dated. My Season 1 Transformers G1 DVD rots in the shelf because I can't watch it, even with Cullen and Welker.
Now, as for the fourth movie...DO I want one? Hell yes. Do I want it to be Bay's movie? No, absolutely not. Do I still think MovieBob is a pretentious prick? Oh, absolutely.

marurder:
Incidently, Transformers 3 was THE biggest movie in China last year. And most of them saw it dubbed into Chinese, so dialogue really isn't that important when making money. (watch any movie dubbed into Chinese it sounds AWFUL - bad lip sync, and voices don't fit any actor or situation at all)

jack583:
here's a tip for mr bay:
KEEP...
HUMANS...
OUT OF IT......

But how to make it relate-able to the masses!??!

i wasn't saying that the problem was the dialog, the problem was that bay focused on the humans, and practically just threw the robots into the background.

did they go into much detail about the struggles of war between the autobots and decepticons?
not really
it was just " we are good! they are bad! both sides need shiny thing!"
and you don't need humans to have someone the audiance can relate to

example: Wall-e
wall-e just works a dead-end job, but it gives his life some purpose and he's thankfull to have it. he just get's up each morning and goes out to do his job. it's hard, yes; it's thankless, yes; but he doesn't complain, he just does what needs to be done.
i, for one, can relate to this character
anyone that has ever had to work for just enough to get by can relate to this character
and it took 0 dialogue to do it

bay could go into cybertrons history, and show what lead to the war.
THAT is something people would like.

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