Jimquisition: The Positive Side of Mass Effect 3's Ending Drama

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT
 

MonkeyPunch:

MiracleOfSound:
never promised you a different ending to the one you got.

[edit] someone enlighten me: what ending was promised and where?
(sounds a bit strange off the bat - divulging an ending to a game before it's release...)

"It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are, or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson

I'm not trying to start an argument, but here you are.

Have to admit, I hadn't considered it from that perspective. Cheers, Jim.

Thank God for Jim!

Pretty good stuff there....I think I saw God eating out a hedgehog.

KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life:
"It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are, or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson

I'm not trying to start an argument, but here you are.

Thanks! You got a reference link to go with that per chance?

You won't find an argument out of me (yet) because I literally don't know much on this specific subject. I didn't even really know that they promised some kind of ending at all until this thread.

Mind that statement you provided doesn't really seem to promise anything either, but it's hard to tell what he's actually saying without context. Hence why a link to an actual article that came from would be appreciated.
I'm just trying to see where these dudes are coming from at the moment :)

This is one of your better ones Jim. I actually LOLed at the sonic bit.

Very good point Jim. The sheer backlash of this all isn't embarrassing, it's.. impressive.

I love the heck out of ME but have decided to back out of the third one myself, the endings being a big reason for it besides the ass behavior of EA. I'm way too attached to those characters and that universe to let it end on such a sorry note, so I intend to keep my memories of it where ME2 ended.

It sucks that it had to happen with ME, but it had to happen to some big series we all care about for us to see the impact. Maybe now publishers wont rush their developers to slap together a meager ending quite as much anymore. There is nothing more important than the first few minutes and the last few minutes of a videogame.

You know, the entire stink about the ME3 ending has had me royally pissed off. Not that I hated it, but that it turned a huge chunk of the gaming community into one gigantic collective whiny bitch.

This?

This made me feel a lot better about it.

Why haven't I been watching your show?

This episode was very on point! I usually prefer Sterling's written work to his videos because he comes off as much more coherent and reasonable. I know the vitriolic troll behavior is part of his character in this series, but it bothered me enough to stop watching for a long time. This is the first completely optimistic discussion about Mass Effect 3 and its ending that I've seen in the gaming press. Extremely refreshing and eye-opening. Cheers, Jim, you've won a viewer back!
Keep up the intelligent, "fight-fire-with-fire" commentary going. Just don't let the anger overtake your message.

Jim, the reason behind the rage is much more justified other than what "fans were expecting". Yes, there were expectations as Casey did promise this exact this wouldn't happen and with good endings for ME and ME2, the expectations were similar to the ME2 ending.

Also,in hindsight, there are new responses/comments/evidence showing that the ending was going to be different, something that's more pleasing and meaningful than the current ending that for reasons unknown (other than cynicism) were cut and removed from development.

Bioware pulled a Lost when they promised all loose endings would be explained.

Anyway, I agree with you in the extent that the gaming medium has grown-up...So has the industry.

So everyone keeps ripping on "Retake Mass Effect" as wanting to take it back from someone who apparently stole it but that doesn't make a lick of sense. I think RME means they want to redo Mass Effect like a "retake" in a movie production.

Eric the Orange:

Schnookums:

Eric the Orange:
Jim sterling everyone, the only contributor that has actually gotten in trouble for attitude on the forums. Not that it's unexpected I guess.

relevance?

Only in that this is Jims show and that he has a bit of an abrasive personality. And that this is the first episode put up under his Forum commenting profile instead of his usual one for putting up videos.

*chuckles* Well, at least he has some bite left, unprofessional as it may seem.
I'm tired of some of the more spineless journalism majors preaching that they maintain the neutral middle ground from their mouths, while preaching in bias/polarized articles with their pen.

No, I'm not giving names (and most of those I have real problems with write outside of The Escapist).
I'll let people guess and decide for themselves.

ADDED: I really fucking hate Captchas that pop up after I hit Post.

MonkeyPunch:

KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life:
"It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are, or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson

I'm not trying to start an argument, but here you are.

Thanks! You got a reference link to go with that per chance?

You won't find an argument out of me (yet) because I literally don't know much on this specific subject. I didn't even really know that they promised some kind of ending at all until this thread.

Mind that statement you provided doesn't really seem to promise anything either, but it's hard to tell what he's actually saying without context. Hence why a link to an actual article that came from would be appreciated.
I'm just trying to see where these dudes are coming from at the moment :)

http://www.oxm.co.uk/37677/mass-effect-3-citadel-is-bigger-than-ever-endings-will-be-more-sophisticated/

Thought I would help because I was wondering the same thing for quite some time when people were saying it.

In fairness, Mass Effect is fairly unique to the game world. Very VERY few try for serialized storytelling with a planned endpoint. Either it's the perpetual gag plot (Peach is kidnapped again, Gannon's after the triforce again) or the constant reboot (Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto) neither of which give you much empotional investment. There've been some attempts in JRPGs like .hack and xenosaga (which got the ax midway through the planned 6 parts) but mostly vidoegame storytelling is meant to be short and easially digestible, or is written completely on the fly like Matal Gear Solid or Kingdom Hearts. ME3 was destined to be put under a bigger microscope than most given it's planned existance and marketing as a true grand finale, not just the next step to ME4.

And this level of fan rage has been building for some time, probably going back to the infamious bait and switch of Metal gear Solid 2, elevating through Metroid Other M, and cumlinating today. Perhaps it is worse because many of us were already feeling jerked around by day one DLC and still fresh memories of Dragon Age 2 only to get nailed on the other end. Maybe it's worse because of that DLC creating a vehicle to actually have our compalint addressed.

Well that was strange. A positive video from Jim not totally full of scorn. Although I guess he's right about what this fan reaction tells us about the medium (to a certain extent at least) it still doesn't mean the reaction itself isn't childish, pathetic and selfish.

But anyway, can we finish the ME3 videos now? There's been enough of them, and this is a good place to end it too.

I found it funny how one of your points in the vid is: Bioware is not ever going to remake the ending.

and a top news post on the site is: BioWare "Considering" Calls for New Mass Effect 3 Ending.

Thank God for Jim!

Very good video.

That Sonic bit had me laughing.

RetakeJimquisition

My imput in the show had no impact on the ending i want it redone.

OT: I think the worst thing about the endings was that bioware flat out lied (16 different endings, player choice based ect), they were sloppily(is that a word) done and it only raised more questions than it answered which is something the final to a trilogy should never do, Lord of the Rings ending was long winded because it had so many questions it needed answering and character archs that need resolving which is something ME3 endings didn't fulfil.

I dont think a new ending is NEEDED but i doubt i'll buy bioware/ea for a while.

As much as I appreciate his message, eh I have to go on to say Jim missed the point. Especially behind retake mass effect. Really he has just placed face value on why so many people are so angry, I for one am not upset that shepard died or whatever, I am upset that there are so many glaring plotholes, none of our choices mattered, the ending was rushed and sloppily put together, took away all player choice, and beat us with circular logic.

I am even more upset that we had no closure at all, no sense that the game actually ended or that Shepard had even done anything. Don't get me wrong we see one of three different colored explosions with small variants but we don't see the Quarians on Rannoch, the Krogan rebuilding, the Turians retaking/losing Pavlon, the Asari doing anything with Thessi, the Geth being killed, EDI dying, why Joker chickened out and ran like a coward, what happened to Admiral Hacket, Where Zaeed, Kasumi, Jack, Grunt or anyone is at the time or after the events on Earth, what happens after the relays blow up, why is there a random space god?

That's the major problem, the game is so good and the ending so bad it almost feels like they were made by seperate companies, as BioWare already said they did to finish other parts of the game. Its just a very sloppy cut and paste of the Deus Ex endings almost word for word, and the only reason Deus Ex was able to pull off a full on Deus Ex Machina ending was because the entire game was building up to and embracing that entire point, not extreme choice and consequence.

But... but... but... WHY did they make Sonic's eyes GREEEEN?! Waaaaaahhh!

But seriously now, people who get this upset over a game's ending (or any fictional work's ending for that matter) should get over to Walmart or something and get themselves a life. Yes, it sucks that we had no closure and no word about the fate of beloved characters, but artists have the right to end their story however they fucking want. End of story. Pun intended.

I rather disagree on the concept that people are being childish about the ending. That's not to say some aren't in fact being childish, not in the least. But I believe most people take the stance that I do, the ending was horrible no matter how you cut it. I don't care if it wasn't what I expected, I just wanted it to be good. Which it wasn't by any means. Add the fact that Casey Hudson made some really idiotic remarks over the whole thing, and that's why it became a powderkeg.

In particular, Hudson made the claim prior to release that the game wouldn't have an "A, B, or C type ending" like Deus Ex: Human Revolution did. Then we played the game, say that he flagrantly lied, unless you want to look at it more like "Oh, it's just A, with different lighting schemes."

Additionally the comment about fans never being happy with show endings because they become invested is a load of crap. Lost's ending caused an uproar only because it resolved nearly none of the questions the writers promised to. (What was Walt's relevance? Or Claire's baby? WTF was Jacob? etc)

I don't know. I know people who couldn't give a flying f*** for gaming and video games in general, you show them tings like Bioshock, Psychonauts or Portal, and they say that's a stupid waste of time. But they love Mass Effect. And Diablo ... Some games manage to build up this aura that attracts these people, and I don't know why. I wouldn't call that as a sign of gaming maturing either way.

Kakulukia:
But... but... but... WHY did they make Sonic's eyes GREEEEN?! Waaaaaahhh!

But seriously now, people who get this upset over a game's ending (or any fictional work's ending for that matter) should get over to Walmart or something and get themselves a life. Yes, it sucks that we had no closure and no word about the fate of beloved characters, but artists have the right to end their story however they fucking want. End of story. Pun intended.

And we have a right to be upset over it, no we don't have the right to demand they change it but if they can't handle people straight up hating their work, and complaining how much it sucks they need to grow up and get a spine. Its part of being a creative person you have to take the good with the bad, what you do with it is down to what kind of person you are.

I will still hate the endings because of how poorly done they were, if they fix them I will be very pleased, if they don't well doesn't matter they got my money, I will act like a responsible consumer and stop consuming its simple.

orangeapples:
I found it funny how one of your points in the vid is: Bioware is not ever going to remake the ending.

and a top news post on the site is: BioWare "Considering" Calls for New Mass Effect 3 Ending.

Considering does not automatically imply that they will. Though if I were Bioware at this point I'd probably replace all of the endings with something like this:

Just because I'd consider it hilarious.

Eric the Orange:
Jim sterling everyone, the only contributor that has actually gotten in trouble for attitude on the forums. Not that it's unexpected I guess.

Actually I got suspended for 5 days once for attitude on the forum :D

I am waiting for the real ending. Jim was indoctrinated the whole time.

MiracleOfSound:

Eric the Orange:
Jim sterling everyone, the only contributor that has actually gotten in trouble for attitude on the forums. Not that it's unexpected I guess.

Actually I got suspended for 5 days once for attitude on the forum :D

Well, you're an active member of the forums (and you were before you were a content creator), whereas to my knowledge, Jim is not except in his own threads.

Metalix Knightmare:

orangeapples:
I found it funny how one of your points in the vid is: Bioware is not ever going to remake the ending.

and a top news post on the site is: BioWare "Considering" Calls for New Mass Effect 3 Ending.

Considering does not automatically imply that they will. Though if I were Bioware at this point I'd probably replace all of the endings with something like this:

Just because I'd consider it hilarious.

Oh, I read the news article and it was piecing together two kinda unrelated comments from bioware. Doesn't make the idea that Jim and The Escapist newsroom are somehow trying to undermine one another any less funny to me.

MiracleOfSound:

Eric the Orange:
Jim sterling everyone, the only contributor that has actually gotten in trouble for attitude on the forums. Not that it's unexpected I guess.

Actually I got suspended for 5 days once for attitude on the forum :D

Nobody likes a one-upper.

irishda:

MiracleOfSound:

Eric the Orange:
Jim sterling everyone, the only contributor that has actually gotten in trouble for attitude on the forums. Not that it's unexpected I guess.

Actually I got suspended for 5 days once for attitude on the forum :D

Nobody likes a one-upper.

My one-up is bigger than yours.

Andy Shandy:

MonkeyPunch:

KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life:
"It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are, or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson

I'm not trying to start an argument, but here you are.

Thanks! You got a reference link to go with that per chance?

You won't find an argument out of me (yet) because I literally don't know much on this specific subject. I didn't even really know that they promised some kind of ending at all until this thread.

Mind that statement you provided doesn't really seem to promise anything either, but it's hard to tell what he's actually saying without context. Hence why a link to an actual article that came from would be appreciated.
I'm just trying to see where these dudes are coming from at the moment :)

http://www.oxm.co.uk/37677/mass-effect-3-citadel-is-bigger-than-ever-endings-will-be-more-sophisticated/

Thought I would help because I was wondering the same thing for quite some time when people were saying it.

This is kind of why Jim Sterling made the point in an earlier article that gamers who aren't considered "hardcore", who don't pay attention to who makes what, are smarter than the more active crowd. How many times have I read promises from devs about "what this game was going to do" or "how blown away gamers would be"? It's all hype from people who truly believe it's not hype because this is their baby, their project.

In the end it's all grand ideals tempered by finite resources, and no game ever lives up to the hype that the pre-gaming communities pile onto it. I can only hope this is a lesson to many Mass Effect fans. Take what people say about anything, not just games but movies, books, shows, anything, with a grain of salt until you experience it for yourself.

I see a lot of people complain about what they were promised, but how many people complain who didn't listen to any promises?

KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life:

MonkeyPunch:

MiracleOfSound:
never promised you a different ending to the one you got.

[edit] someone enlighten me: what ending was promised and where?
(sounds a bit strange off the bat - divulging an ending to a game before it's release...)

"It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are, or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson

I'm not trying to start an argument, but here you are.

That doesn't say you won't have to choose between ending A, B, or C just that you won't be trying to figure out which one that you got.

Andy Shandy:

MonkeyPunch:

KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life:
"It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are, or whether you got ending A, B, or C." - Casey Hudson

I'm not trying to start an argument, but here you are.

Thanks! You got a reference link to go with that per chance?

You won't find an argument out of me (yet) because I literally don't know much on this specific subject. I didn't even really know that they promised some kind of ending at all until this thread.

Mind that statement you provided doesn't really seem to promise anything either, but it's hard to tell what he's actually saying without context. Hence why a link to an actual article that came from would be appreciated.
I'm just trying to see where these dudes are coming from at the moment :)

http://www.oxm.co.uk/37677/mass-effect-3-citadel-is-bigger-than-ever-endings-will-be-more-sophisticated/

Thought I would help because I was wondering the same thing for quite some time when people were saying it.

That's more proof that Casey Hudson should never be allowed near a microphone or a reporter...ever. Actually, let's put the whole dev team down for that and all the different studios.

Honestly, I've had issues with Bioware over their endless and sometimes overzealous hype. It's starting to work its way up to Fable levels without a great deal of effort and without the Peter M fun. At least we know Peter is crazy, with Bioware it just seems like they say whatever they think will help them sell the most copies and not what has any bearing on reality. We promise X and deliver Applesauce while coming off as seemingly reasonable people.

On the same subject, thank you Jim! It's good to know that the gaming community has come so far that they may now be just as ridiculous as everyone else.

Interesting thoughts. I still didn't like the ending, though. :(

MonkeyPunch:

MiracleOfSound:
never promised you a different ending to the one you got.

[edit] someone enlighten me: what ending was promised and where?
(sounds a bit strange off the bat - divulging an ending to a game before it's release...)

Well, let's just put it this way:


If you need proof that he actually said that: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

"Cringemaking as some of the fans have been"

What about the "journalists" making fun of people for donating to charity instead of running a DDOS on a website or flat out ignoring that people didn't like the endings for more than "They aren't happy."

Would you characterize that as "cringemaking" Jimbo?

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here