The Big Picture: Shell Shock

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I don't think I ever had an issue with the name "Eggman." Might have just heard that name first from somewhere and never bothered reading the manuel. The game's never explained it ether, just like the games also didn't do anything to convince me the Mario Brother's were from anywhere but Brooklyn.

TO THE POINT HOWEVER

So long as the movie is good and the visuals aren't too over the top here's hoping the Turtle's movie is good. My one fear is that they take "mutant" way too far and make the characters repulsive to look at. Bad action scenes are almost excusable but if we get a still and the turtles look like the Rancor them I'll be forced to call foul.

Will Bay get to "modernize" any other memorable childhood franchises? We due for another Live action Mario or is it time to hear the real origins of out favorite hedgehog? How about a recent trend? Angry Birds explode, right? Oh my, I'm picturing these in my head and they're wonderfully horrific. It's beautiful!

Lunar Templar:

RaikuFA:
Born in 87, I loved the turtles and Ghostbusters.

Fingers crossed this is good. REALLY CROSSED.

>.> Michel Bay is 'attached', would be wiser to lower your expectations.

which leads to .....

Bob, i don't think the new TMNT movie will suck because of the new origin story, i like its going to suck because MICHEL BAY is involved.

Oh trust me, my expectations are very low for it.

DVS BSTrD:
Hey Bob I got a proposal for you: We'll admit we weren't into the underground comics first when YOU admit you had ZERO understanding of "that other thing mentioned" in last week's episode. Deal?

You won't call him Dr. Eggman for the same reason we won't call that ending Mass Effect.

But it's different when he does it because ponies.

Also, the fact hat he's addressing "Turtlegate" like a big boy after that last bout of histrionics regarding Mass effect is hi-larious.

I actually was aware of the comics before the TV series. There's many reasons for this, but here's the short list:

I didn't watch a lot of TV.
I DID read a lot, which was mostly books but included a fair share of comics.
My dad is a HUGE nerd.
While I grew up in Vermont, my place of birth was not far from Mirage studios, a point said huge nerd of a father made sure to remind me of.

Hence, my huge nerd father got me into the comic book form of a series created by what were effectively hometown boys.

No attempts for hipster cred, I'm just the nerd who was literate enough to read a series without having seen the movie first. I blame schools. Why, in my day, they actually encouraged us to read the source material and then watch the movie and compare and contrast. Damn hippies.

But I digress. What I would ideally like to see is something akin to the first TMNT movie. It really did blend the better elements of both versions that were mainstays at the time. That, and it's a lot easier to tell them apart with coloured headbands. But I'm used to some of the conventions of the cartoon and the related media, and I like them. The original is the original, but not always superior. I can agree with Bob on that much, which is a freaking miracle these days.

Also, I could live without Krang, but I want Bebop and Rocksteady in the movies.

Quick question:

How did Robotnik get the name Eggman? I have only played a couple of Sonic games, the last one being Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. I kinda get Robotnik, guys makes robots, its self-explanatory. Eggman? That I never understood. There never seemed anything egg related about him except for his size, and he is more spherical than egg shaped.

I'm surprised no mention of Harly Quin. If there was an example of creative liberties working, it was her. The creators of the animated Batman series created a whole new character which was pretty popular and got added to canon.

It isn't about original source, it is about popular opinion and the fan agreed canon. Now, pretty much all sources of the TMNT agree that they were originally 4 pet turtles who got in contact with a mutagen or ooze. This ooze has different origins: toxic waste, chemical byproduct, aliens. The source of the mutagen doesn't matter as long as it is interesting. But Bay said that the turtles are aliens. They come from a planet of anthropomorphic turtles and as Sonic says, "that's no good."

Lunar Templar:

Bob, i don't think the new TMNT movie will suck because of the new origin story, i like its going to suck because MICHEL BAY is involved.

I was shocked that "Turtlegate" was such a thing, really. I assumed it was going to be bad from two words: Michael Bay. I see no reason a different origin story will in any way make it worse.

The only turtles medium I remember was the awesome 90's films. Especially the one who introduced Casey.

I say awsome by remembering the films through my 10 year olds eyes. Haven seen the films in about 10 years, I think I'd do well to keep it that way.

Evil Alpaca:
Quick question:

How did Robotnik get the name Eggman? I have only played a couple of Sonic games, the last one being Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. I kinda get Robotnik, guys makes robots, its self-explanatory. Eggman? That I never understood. There never seemed anything egg related about him except for his size, and he is more spherical than egg shaped.

I'm surprised no mention of Harly Quin. If there was an example of creative liberties working, it was her. The creators of the animated Batman series created a whole new character which was pretty popular and got added to canon.

I thought Eggman was the original Japanese name, hence Bob's point. At the same time, Eggman sounds stupid and Robotnik sounds like an evil genius from a cheesey series about an anthro hedgehog.

Abandon4093:
The only turtles medium I remember was the awesome 90's films. Especially the one who introduced Casey.

I say awsome by remembering the films through my 10 year olds eyes. Haven seen the films in about 10 years, I think I'd do well to keep it that way.

I still enjoy the first two.

Mostly the first, because the second one got kinda silly. "Hey, we like the whole "Ninja Turtle" thing, but we don't like the fact that they use weapons. Could you give them some silly alternatives?"

Zachary Amaranth:

Lunar Templar:

Bob, i don't think the new TMNT movie will suck because of the new origin story, i like its going to suck because MICHEL BAY is involved.

I was shocked that "Turtlegate" was such a thing, really. I assumed it was going to be bad from two words: Michael Bay. I see no reason a different origin story will in any way make it worse.

yeah, they could probably stick to the cartoon and it'd still suck ...... -.- and cause i have no faith in humanity to have learned the LAST 3 times ..... i also have faith it will make frankly stupid amounts of money despite being crap

The ooze can be alien orientated, but they still have to be four baby turtles transformed from ooze.

olfelix:
I hate that this great show has been forced to be a huge "Grow up fanboys". All the moaning about TMNT and Mass Effect this past week has only proved how immature fans can be.

Or how hypocritical Bob can be, telling fanboys to grow up when he basically whined about the new Green Lantern movie, for something like four episodes.

Evil Alpaca:
Quick question:

How did Robotnik get the name Eggman? I have only played a couple of Sonic games, the last one being Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. I kinda get Robotnik, guys makes robots, its self-explanatory. Eggman? That I never understood. There never seemed anything egg related about him except for his size, and he is more spherical than egg shaped.

Eggman, at least in lore, is the son of Doctor Harold Robotnik. Eggman is basically when they wanted to start to redesign most of the characters and most likely originated out of a pun that Sonic made about Robotniks shape. Then I guess that picked up with Sega and now you have Dr. Eggman.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Meh, this wasn't to bad. But like others have said, has this show dropped everything for complaining about fans?

aegix drakan:
Dude. What's wrong with the name Eggman?

I'm a pretty big fan of the sonic series, and I have no problem with the name Eggman. I mean, I did at first, but now? Now I just don't care about that. It's not that big a deal IMO.

does he make eggs? no he makes robots. Its just a matter of one name fitting much better.

I grew up with the Teenage Mutant *Hero* Turtles (because British censors are/were weird) but the Michael Bay reboot doesn't offend me nearly as much as Transformers 2 and 3 did.

The key trick here? TF 2 and 3 commit the cardinal sequel sin, they basically shit all over whatever plot, atmosphere and "lore" is laid down as canon by the first film.

For other examples of this, see The Matrix sequels and X-Men 3 and Evolutions. Fuck, The Golden Compass managed to do this in one single movie, switching from talking about the bears and the fairies as the stuff of complete myth and legend to suddenly having hundreds of both on screen.

If you want to make a film and reboot the world and characters with new origin stories, that's pretty much fine - I never felt that the origin of the turtles was that special, it doesn't seem critical to the characters. Just be self-consistent.

That said, I felt disappointed with The Dark Knight because the Joker didn't really have an origin story - in particular because I always really appreciated the idea that the Joker was in some ways *created by* Batman with the whole Jack Napier, Axis chemicals thing. I've no idea if that's "the official" origin story, but it was one which gave an extra dimension to the character which in some ways Nolan's Joker lacked.

vxicepickxv:

Rantgate? Ahah, ahah, ahah. I'm sorry, I'll stop. Joking aside I totally agree that it's become drastically over-used over the past few years.

Not G. Ivingname:
Another note on Mr. Freeze...

...That was until Batman: the animated series reinvented him with a new back story and a VERY cold personality...

I see what you did there. Joking aside, Mr. Freeze was my favorite villain of TAS because of his personality. Hell, he was the villain that basically defined that show for me, and likely a lot more of my childhood along with it.

OT: Stories go through big revisions or reboots all the time, even huge franchises. Comic-based continuities are the big ones, but there are also things like Star Trek, G.I. Joe and Spyro the Dragon, all of which have had successful reboots. Just because Michael Bay got his hands on TMNT doesn't mean that it's ruined forever. We could have another reboot after Bay is done with the franchise, and none of this will have mattered.

Aprilgold:

Evil Alpaca:
Quick question:

How did Robotnik get the name Eggman? I have only played a couple of Sonic games, the last one being Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. I kinda get Robotnik, guys makes robots, its self-explanatory. Eggman? That I never understood. There never seemed anything egg related about him except for his size, and he is more spherical than egg shaped.

Eggman, at least in lore, is the son of Doctor Harold Robotnik. Eggman is basically when they wanted to start to redesign most of the characters and most likely originated out of a pun that Sonic made about Robotniks shape. Then I guess that picked up with Sega and now you have Dr. Eggman.

Sorry to say, but that's actually false. Robotnik was originally called Eggman over in Japan, and after a while I guess that Sega wanted to bring the Japanese and English versions of the story closer together or something, and decided to use the Japanese name for that. There's no mention of Robotnik having a son named Eggman, nor is his name Harold Robotnik as you claim; it's Ivo Robotnik.

Dear lord, I'm too much of a Sonic fanboy.

Sis:

Axolotl:

Are there really a significant number of people who care about TMNT?

It's April 3. Not April 1

Hence my confusion.

bahumat42:

aegix drakan:
Dude. What's wrong with the name Eggman?

I'm a pretty big fan of the sonic series, and I have no problem with the name Eggman. I mean, I did at first, but now? Now I just don't care about that. It's not that big a deal IMO.

does he make eggs? no he makes robots. Its just a matter of one name fitting much better.

Am I the only one remembering that Robotnik wasn't very much said anywhere in the games except for manual or backstory? My guess for Eggman being that it was when Sonic was trying to be edgy with words and was making fun of Robotniks shape. Eventually, I suppose that caught on with Kids and as such caught on with Sega. Later its explained that Robotnik was Eggman's father so they could fit in where Shadow comes from in Sonic Adventure 2.

Note: This is the only topic I get this nerdy about.

I already knew about the proper original version of the Ninja Turtles (I heard that it's very violent). Heck I was told that cross over tv special they were tame.

I believe this best sum up why we are against the alien adaption to the franchise (skip to 3.30)

As Yami said "Why can't we take a establish concept that people already love translate to the big screen without making all of these unnecessary changes?"

Are kids too lazy to do a quick Wiki on the franchise if they are new to it?

Evil Alpaca:
Quick question:

How did Robotnik get the name Eggman? I have only played a couple of Sonic games, the last one being Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. I kinda get Robotnik, guys makes robots, its self-explanatory. Eggman? That I never understood. There never seemed anything egg related about him except for his size, and he is more spherical than egg shaped.

I'm surprised no mention of Harly Quin. If there was an example of creative liberties working, it was her. The creators of the animated Batman series created a whole new character which was pretty popular and got added to canon.

I created this just for this thread;
image

he has always been Eggman in japan from the very beginning. its only in the rest of the world where people knew him as Robotnik, most likely an sega of america decision. though now Eggman is his nickname while robotnik is his real name (unless you're in japan where it is still unknown).

Mm... personally I was tangentially aware of the turtles for some time before actually caring about any of the media, it was the 2003 cartoon that got me invested, it was just something polished I could take seriously.

Having said all that, I'm still a pretty casual fan, I should probably check out the original comics sometime though...

Evil Alpaca:
Quick question:

How did Robotnik get the name Eggman? I have only played a couple of Sonic games, the last one being Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. I kinda get Robotnik, guys makes robots, its self-explanatory. Eggman? That I never understood. There never seemed anything egg related about him except for his size, and he is more spherical than egg shaped.

Eggman was his original Japanese name primarily because he looked like an egg. REally, he was designed Egg shaped so they went with Eggman, "Eggman"probably sounded better in Japan anyway. To sell better in the US it was changed to something cooler sounding because it was the 90s. Due to the two market's being separate it was easy to get away with, but as soon as the markets were no longer isolated (yay internet) the games all stuck to the friendlier and Canon japanese name of Eggman, much to the anger of fans of the American games and cartoons who would of probably preferred Robuttnick over Eggman.

bahumat42:

aegix drakan:
Dude. What's wrong with the name Eggman?

I'm a pretty big fan of the sonic series, and I have no problem with the name Eggman. I mean, I did at first, but now? Now I just don't care about that. It's not that big a deal IMO.

does he make eggs? no he makes robots. Its just a matter of one name fitting much better.

But he is egg SHAPED. And makes Egg themed robots. And he is a MAN.

Hence EGGMAN. :P

Evil Alpaca:
Quick question:

How did Robotnik get the name Eggman? I have only played a couple of Sonic games, the last one being Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. I kinda get Robotnik, guys makes robots, its self-explanatory. Eggman? That I never understood. There never seemed anything egg related about him except for his size, and he is more spherical than egg shaped.

AdamRBi:
Eggman was his original Japanese name primarily because he looked like an egg. REally, he was designed Egg shaped so they went with Eggman, "Eggman"probably sounded better in Japan anyway. To sell better in the US it was changed to something cooler sounding because it was the 90s. Due to the two market's being separate it was easy to get away with, but as soon as the markets were no longer isolated (yay internet) the games all stuck to the friendlier and Canon japanese name of Eggman, much to the anger of fans of the American games and cartoons who would of probably preferred Robuttnick over Eggman.

Actually, they kinda compromised.

The characters call him "eggman", but his actual canon family name is Robotnik. As seen in SA2/StH, where his grandpa is Gerald Robotnik.

So it's not like the name Robotnik is totally dead. He just goes by Eggman. Why? I have no idea. But whatever. It's not that big a deal, IMO.

Aprilgold:

bahumat42:

aegix drakan:
Dude. What's wrong with the name Eggman?

I'm a pretty big fan of the sonic series, and I have no problem with the name Eggman. I mean, I did at first, but now? Now I just don't care about that. It's not that big a deal IMO.

does he make eggs? no he makes robots. Its just a matter of one name fitting much better.

Am I the only one remembering that Robotnik wasn't very much said anywhere in the games except for manual or backstory? My guess for Eggman being that it was when Sonic was trying to be edgy with words and was making fun of Robotniks shape. Eventually, I suppose that caught on with Kids and as such caught on with Sega. Later its explained that Robotnik was Eggman's father so they could fit in where Shadow comes from in Sonic Adventure 2.

Note: This is the only topic I get this nerdy about.

Correction, It was reviled in that game that his full name was Doctor Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik. Meaning Eggman was just his alias. His father was Gerald Robotnik and I should really be doing something more important right now.

My fandom is showing.

Though I've been hearing mixed things about his official Japanese full name. It's been a while.

Surprised he did not mention Harley Quinn.
A character that was just thrown in to Batman TAS to give joker a unique lackey, and thus has spread into hundreds of interpretations.

lol, I loved how Bob mentions that everyone was more interested in the Mass Effect 3 thing than the Turtles thing, because you know, that's a recent gaming thing, and this is a gaming website, and gaming websites are known to have the most thoughtful, insightful, and most of all, polite and calm individuals the world has ever known... But yeah, Ninja Turtles, if figures they'd remove the "teenage mutant" part of the title, since they're aliens now.

Also, I'm on the fence about Dr. Robotnik vs. Dr. Eggman. I usually prefer Dr. Robotnik, but I'm willing to call him Dr. Eggman, though in some cases, I'd wish Sega would bite the bullet and just start calling him Robotnik again in America and Europe, or at the very least, the old version of him (see Classic Robotnik from Sonic Generations).

I like 2003 version of TMNT because that the show i watched when I high school. I never saw the original tv show but I knew about TMNT because of live action movie,toys and video games

I can't say I'm hugely invested in any iteration of TMNT any longer. I have some of the old comics, including the run that continued even while the animation show was ongoing. I saw the first movie and decided that was enough, thank you (hearing about Vanilla Ice in the second one helped reinforce that decision.)

But one point has to be made, that I suspect begs the question of most of this Big Picture entry: is there any prior version of the Turtles that having them be aliens wouldn't clash with to a ridiculous extent? So does it matter which version of same the outraged fans have in their heads?

Nomanslander:
Wow, I absolutely and utterly agree with you in a video for once. Not to say it's been a really rare thing. But then again it sometimes sort of has.

Oh, and nice to know the 60s live action Batman series had put those villains that I love on top, inventing Mr. Freeze. Personally I always hated that show for undermining my original concept of Batman. Making it out to be an overly campy, ambiguously dumb show. Hell I didn't know Batman was dark until the Tim Burton movie. Now at least I have a new appreciation for that campy campy show.

At the same time though, it's because of that show that Batman is even a thing nowadays. That show the reason you can mention the name Batman to any random person and they'll know who you mean.

I think I might have been aware of a comic when I was a kid, but I never saw it. I know I was aware of Mirage, because that was the copyright stamped on the stuff. The 1987 cartoon is the property I was a fandork for, my second big fandork period. I remember noticing the cartoon and the first two movies seemed to be different storylines (mostly because Bebop and Rocksteady weren't there and Tokka and Rahzar were, at least in movie II), but didn't make much of it. Strangely enough, with all the merchandise I got and Burger King Kids Club toys and cups and videos, and Hyperstone Heist, and having seen several eps, I don't remember a whole lot about it. Probably because I didn't actually stay with it to the end. Why? Sonic happened and started attracting all my fan attention.
Speaking of Sonic, as far as I'm concerned, Eggman is the games' antagonist, Robotnik is the cartoons'. The games and 90s shows were different enough from each other, and the character designs for the cartoon Robotniks were different enough from the games Eggman that I kinda separate them.

It was years before I got used to calling him Bowser, not King Koopa.

I think this reaction was probably a pavlovian reaction to Michael Bay combined with a bit of fear that he's just hiding behind a known property to push an unrelated movie the way Battleship is doing.

True story, when I was going to UMass Amherst I saw the TMNT guys sitting at a table in the comic book store I frequented...and totally ignored them. "Turtles, Ninjas huh!?!? wtf? I'm here to buy old Marvel comics". Hehe if I only knew then what I know now, I would have bought a copy and stashed in a box along with all the old comics I still have now and haven't read since.

I wouldn't really mind if they change the "canon" or create a new one for this movies. I just hope he makes a decent job at translating the property in a way that doesn't alienate previous fans (the 2007 CGI movie is a great example).

Then again, this is Michael Bay, so I guess he will just change everything to suit his needs, and everyone knows ninja swords don't create as nice explosions as alien blasters.

I understand. Fandom ruined any sort of cohesion in plot/lore the old Might and Magic universe had. I just think of all the possibilities that could have unfurled, maybe today we wouldn't have that uninspired Ashan to work with.

Aprilgold:
Or how hypocritical Bob can be, telling fanboys to grow up when he basically whined about the new Green Lantern movie, for something like four episodes.

Bob's big problems with the Green Lantern movie, at least as I remember it, is that the movie itself was bad. Today's video isn't saying that fans need to get over something being bad, but we shouldn't get too hung up on what we understand is "canon." TMNT is used as an example since most fans of the series didn't start with the original comics, and the Saturday morning cartoon and the movies made substantial changes to TMNT lore.

When the movie's released chances are it will be pretty bad on its own right, and if it is I'm sure Bob will be ready to pan it.

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