Jimquisition: You Should Be Mad at Diablo III's Always Online DRM

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templar1138a:
I'm mostly in agreement.

However, some of the "You're Allowed to Be Entitled" argument loses its merit when the players KNEW that being connected - even for single player - was a requirement WELL in advance of the game's release.

Yeah but he's not arguing for the "always online" thing, he's arguing that Blizzard should have their servers in order and that player's should be able to log in and play the game.

Since C&C4 I have a principle
If game needs constant internet connection for single player- FUCK THAT GAME!!!
Even if it is good/anticipated game, fuck that!
Not going to buy it.
Not going to pirate it.
Not going to touch it by any means.
Not going to be anywhere near it.
And will avoid of thinking about it.
Because I learned this the hard way.
(I wish I had pirated C&C4, instead of buying that shit- to be honest that game had more issues than constant online requirement, but that wasn't helping either)
I may be only one consumer, but this is my way of showing middle finger to developers/publishers who dare to pull this off.
Who knows, maybe if there will be more people who act similar, developers/publishers eventually will get the lesson.

I understand online validation during installation, but now even that isn't enough.
Now you need to have constant internet connection, and if it isn't stable, your game will be unplayable.
What next? To play a game we will need to implant transmitter in the neck that will check if we are playing our game copy? And if someone else tries to play it transmitter blows up?
I bet if they could, developers/publishers would request such measures.

P.S. I don't get it. What's with the old man photos?

captcha: beats me
(yes this DRM reminds beating)

krellen:
The primary difference is how they are sold. WoW is sold as a service - subscribe to our service, get our servers. Diablo, however, is being sold as a product - buy our game, then you can play it.

D3 is just as much of a service (and product) as WoW. Instead of having a monthly subscription D3 has the RMAH. That's how the D3 service is being paid for. This means a ton of people will get a service without having to pay for it.

The ONLY aspect of Blizzard's setup that makes Diablo III a MMO is that every player is required to log into a server to play. But is D3 a true MMO? Absofuckinglutely not. It is in reality an online single player with a four person Co-Op option.

Blizzard's retarded decision to go online required for this even in single player is horrendous. They knew what kind of loads would be sploodged all over their servers at launch but completely failed to provide adequate coverage. Another thing that really pisses me off is their choice to arbitrarily shut the servers down on a whim to fix minor bugs that can wait for server maintenance.

All in all Blizzard screwed this one up, and badly.

Walter Byers:

krellen:
The primary difference is how they are sold. WoW is sold as a service - subscribe to our service, get our servers. Diablo, however, is being sold as a product - buy our game, then you can play it.

D3 is just as much of a service (and product) as WoW. Instead of having a monthly subscription D3 has the RMAH. That's how the D3 service is being paid for. This means a ton of people will get a service without having to pay for it.

Without having to pay for it? It costs $60.

I'm just gonna throw this out here because I think it describes the problem pretty damn well.

Walter Byers:
Skyrim is a single player game because it can have at most one player. D3 is a multiplayer game because it can have more than one player. This is what it means to be single player and multiplayer.

Anything that has a single player mode is a single player game. If it only has single player, that simply means it's a single player only-game. Same with multiplayer: if it's got it, it's a multiplayer game. If the only option you have is multiplayer, it's multiplayer only. Very, very simple distinction.

And yes, that means Diablo 3 is both a single- and multiplayer game. Due to this, it's perfectly reasonable to buy the game and expect to be able to not play multiplayer, unlike WoW. The internet is currently raging about how they couldn't play single player due to the online only nature of the game. That's the whole basis for this discussion. Saying "yeah but it's not a single player game so you're all wrong" is bollocks, because it most certainly is.

Realitycrash:

I love you.

Love you too man.

Wanna hug?

EDIT: does anyone else spot the irony of the fact that I'm having a terrible level of server lag here?

Yeah, the forums are slow and ended up with posting my post twice. To make sure it's not all spam I'm going to post this lovely unrelated picture of a pumpkin:

image

DVS BSTrD:

Soviet Heavy:
I kept expecting the Facehugger to play into all that somehow.

I think the Facehugger is supposed to represent the concept of DRM.

If you look at the facehugger again it appears that it represents something else entirely. OT Jim couldn't be more right about this, there are countless posts over just about any forum that discusses games calling out anyone unhappy about this for being "entitled".

Obviously some of them are Blizzard fanbois and its easy to ignore it. What concerns me though is the non fanzoogled people posting it, if ignoring or accepting crap like this from developers is slowly becoming the standard we, as gamers are fucked.

theultimateend:

Anytime people say "entitlement" to shit on a person's arguments I write them off.

Entitlement is silly in a capitalist society, Businesses are insanely entitled, most lawsuits and demands are reeking of entitlement.

Yet it only counts when its a person.

But yeah they could have just had an unranked offline mode, not rocket science, dungeon defenders does it.

Entitlement is a misnomer anyway. It's not wrong to feel entitled to things you deserve. It's wrong to have a false sense of entitlement. For example, game companies who feel they are entitled to a cut of the used games market. That's a false sense of entitlement. And yet, as you say, they're not called on it.

And yeah, offline mode would be simple to implment. Allow people to play a different character that can't go online. They do it in other games.

krellen:

The primary difference is how they are sold. WoW is sold as a service - subscribe to our service, get our servers. Diablo, however, is being sold as a product - buy our game, then you can play it.

These days, game companies try to play both sides of the line, a sort of product-service duality that means they claim whichever side is more convenient. However, there is no need for this to cover single player, even if it is a service.

Amarok:
Without having to pay for it? It costs $60.

I mean without having to pay a monthly fee.

Naeras:
Anything that has a single player mode is a single player game.

D3 doesn't have a single player mode. Every time you start a new game it's in multiplayer mode as in multiple players can be part of that game.

That's like calling a dungeon in WoW a single player dungeon because you zoned in by yourself.

I never thought this was an entitlement problem (I mean that in the negative), I mean, hell I paid for the damn thing so I expect it to work when I use it. If I buy a piece of gear for work I expect it to work how it should and how it was advertised to me, and I will be angry if it doesn't.

I just want Blizzard to fix this, that's all I want. I fucking love D3, but all this DRM crap just makes me think if I'm in the mood to dealing with the possible connection failure.

And Jim is right, I understand that D2 had a huge farming problem and I get that they want it to go away, but I don't see how it's my problem.

I was already complaining about all this crap you mentioned half a year ago to my WoW friends.
And they made dumb excuses, well.... when it was down they shed many tears... Dumb asses....

This DRM (it IS) sucks balls.
Can't even play this SINGLE PLAYER game on the train to work etc...

because of the REAL MONEY AUCTION HOUSE... HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM 15 FUCKING PERCENT OF THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I got the collectors edition AND the special edition strategy guide that has NO MENTION of the cow level!!

And this is why I'm waiting for Torchlight 2. It seems to have everything D3 doesn't and it only costs third of the price.

Walter Byers:

Slanzinger:

If you think about it, any always-on connection requirement is a method of the publisher Managing your Rights

The difference is the always-on connection in D3/WoW is not about managing your digital rights. It's here to do things like calculate the damage of frost nova or determine what item is dropped from BBEG. Maybe the friend you're playing with moved to start gathering an iron ore node.

Just because some DRMs have an online component doesn't mean all online games are inherently DRM. You're conflating the two.

EDIT: Trying to make my quotes work. Hopefully it will.

And yet they were able to do just fine without servers in Diablo 1, 2, and just about every other offline game with random loot drops.

It's DRM. Very well disguised DRM, but it is what it is.

in truth the whole DRM thing is the reason i still dont have this game, i would love to play it but i dont pay for broken goods so im torn

Did you record this in a public toilet? The audio in places was abysmal.

Walter Byers:
D3 doesn't have anymore DRM than WoW. Calling it DRM is either dishonest or ignorant on your part.

No. It's clearly DRM.
What differentiates WoW and Diablo 3 is that Diablo is meant to be also playable by yourself.
WoW, being an MMO, has to maintain a constant internet connection.
That's just a necessary part of the type of game WoW is designed to be.
Diablo is not and never was an MMO. It's simply an RPG that you can play with your friends.

Mcoffey:
And yet they were able to do just fine without servers in Diablo 1, 2, and just about every other offline game with random loot drops.

Are you kidding? Hacking was rampant in those games. Even on BNet.

templar1138a:
I'm mostly in agreement.

However, some of the "You're Allowed to Be Entitled" argument loses its merit when the players KNEW that being connected - even for single player - was a requirement WELL in advance of the game's release.

Not really. Not when they CAN'T get connected, and it's Blizzards fault.

Eternal Taros:
Diablo 3 is that Diablo is meant to be also playable by yourself.

And huge portions of WoW are meant to be playable by yourself. You don't get to play that content offline.

Just because its solo play doesn't mean its offline play. Hence both WoW and D3 being online games.

Always on DRM?
Well, now I'm definitely not buying it.
And I already wasn't buying it because I found out there's no necromancer class.
And before that I walready wasn't buying it because I'm just too busy playing minecraft.

How do you send the message to a game like this though? The franchise alone is so ridiculously successful they can do whatever they want to it and people will still buy it. And I'm betting just about everyone in this thread, Jim Sterling included, failed to send a message of their discontent when we bought the game opening week. What do you do after you buy the game to get publishers to stop this sort of behavior? Bicker on a forum? I don't think that's an effective solution... :\

Thank you Jim for this. I knew I was right to complain. I paid for the game and I should be able to play when I feel like it and not when blizz's servers say I can. Also Jim, you are right about 'dealing with hackers being Blizzards fault and not ours'. Hackers gonna hack. There's gonna be private servers because not everybody can be online 100% of the time they want to play a game they paid upwards of $60 for(or $100 in my case) which will lower the amount of people using the RMAH. They shouldn't punish everybody because of a few bad apples.

Edit:Btw I love the game and just wish there wasn't DRM to deal with.

Oh and thank God for Jim.

As always, thank Jim for Jim. I hadn't even realized people were throwing around the 'entitlement' argument again because I'm not paying full price for a genre that is so grindy and monotonous.

I'm quite disheartened to see how many people love the taste of ActiBlizz dick in their mouths.

So it's not necessarily singleplayer, but I do not think saying "it isn't an MMO either" goes far enough. Whatever happened to LAN parties? Must all multiplayer be exclusively over the internet? Even if your playmate is not even ten yards away?

To those defending this look at it like this. Dead Island is a single player game that also lets you jump into multiplayer at any time. What made Dead Island better than Diablo 3 is that if you had no interest in multiplayer you could still play offline. That is what Diablo 3 should've done, if you want singleplayer then by all means play offline. What Blizzard did was royally screw it's customers and it's why I didn't buy Diablo 3.

Frostbite3789:

TitsMcGee1804:
Blizzard said sorry and thank you for your patience.

I dont think thats enough though, it needs to be 'We really fucked up bad and made alot of people deservedly pissed at us and youre all justified, heres a free ingame pet or something'

They wont

A free in game pet that can take the loot you want to sell back to town for you so can you keep questing.

Not that anything like that exists in a very similar game that's coming out soon at $40 cheaper, without all the restrictions. Nope.

I played the 1st torchlight and it doesnt have even close to the polish that D3 has. D3 used to have a little gadget that would buy your shit while you are out questing but they dropped it becuase 'going back to town to sell' was good for pacing, im with them on this one.

But thats off topic. Im just sick of the 'we apologize for the terrible customer service, thank you for your patience' that we always get every single time stuff like this happens

They still made a fantastic game though, when you can play it

QUINTIX:
So it's not necessarily singleplayer, but I do not think saying "it isn't an MMO either" goes far enough. Whatever happened to LAN parties? Must all multiplayer be exclusively over the internet? Even if your playmate is not even ten yards away?

D3 is an online multiplayer game. It's not an offline single player game. It's not a massively multiplayer game.

Personally I miss offline multiplayer games. RIP couch coop.

If you paid $60 for a game on launch day even though you knew Blizzard game launches are notoriously bad and that it had always-on DRM that's your fault.

If you didn't know either of those things that's also your fault for not researching your purchase.

And I don't love Diablo III. I didn't even buy it. I just don't understand why anyone is surprised by this at all.

Thankfully it's not been an obstacle for me so far, but I will never ever buy a game which I can be remotely denied access to by someone else. Absolutely not.

If all games go down that route I have plenty of awesome games with tonnes of replay value and no such insidious "security" features, and there are many more like them which I have yet to experience. Most of which can be obtained without a penny going to the game companies.

WildFire15:
I agree with Jim, though I'm not sure if DRM is the right world. Total waste of time is probably more accurate as I've heard somewhere (though I'm not sure if it's true or not) that the game's already been cracked and is played using a server emulator or some such. There's no excuse for forcing even single players to play the game, especially when they got bored of Diablo 3 and what to force Diablo 4 on us they can just shut down the servers for D3 and leave us with nothing to play unless we get D4.
I think we should start a campaign to demand Blizzard makes some form of offline mode that can't interact with any online functions. Can't be that difficult to do.

It has. There was a crack to get around the login within a couple days of release, and full server emulation came out over the weekend I believe.

OT: The always-online shit is incredibly stupid. It's a blatantly anti-consumer move that's incredibly aggravating.

TheKasp:
Yes. Because then you are the FUCKING IDIOT who bought D3, knowing about the always online requirements and by logical conclusion that on a worldwide launch of one of the most anticipated titles would have serious issued for the first days, and then you DARE to complain.

You are a moron if you thought there won't be any problems.
You are a moron if you bought the game, knowing everything about it and complain afterwards.
Inform yourself, vote with your wallet.

The last three lines are not directed at anyone in particular. Now I watch and see if Jim was smart enough to come to this conclusion or if he rides on the popular opinion again. Oh, surprise. He just repeats the popular opinion *sigh*.

To be entirely fair, it's not unreasonable to expect, when purchasing a product, that it would work right out of the box. Regardless of DRM or any other concern, it is completely justified for any/every customer to expect that the product they purchased will function as advertised.

The fact that Blizzard was unable to gauge interest and adjust their server structure accordingly, even after having a stress-test weekend shortly before launch, means they failed as a company and should be held accountable (which in this case would likely amount to a bunch of bitching and customer service calls).

Everything else is irrelevant. The core principle of a business transaction is an exchange of money for a good or service. If said good or service does not function as the seller claimed, the buyer has every right to be aggrieved about it. "You knew it was coming!" is irrelevant. It's basic economics, Blizzard has a responsibility to provide a functional game to their paying customers, and they've failed spectacularly in that for a number of people.

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