Zero Punctuation: Diablo 3

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Kalezian:

Jman1236:
I'm waiting till the real money auction house opens up and if it's really that good to buy Diablo 3. Hopefully I'll be able to make it a second job.

I think somewhere they said that it is going to be suspended indefinitely due to player concerns about it.

and so the reason for always online is?....

scw55:
I agree that Bellial can suck my chicken.

Is that what the kids call it now?
But yeah, this was another funny review and Take That to Blizzard. Best line: "I can't hear you over the sound of all my MONEY!!!"

Grey Day for Elcia:

vxicepickxv:

Grey Day for Elcia:
My wall was over there and a shirt with +1 dropped.

-Really? Mine was over here and pants with +1 dropped.

Did you fight that boss and do that one story bit?

-Well... yeah... But the path there was... different, I guess. Sort of.

If they made it at all like Diablo 2, then sometimes you won't even fight some bosses, or have some quests available, because they weren't generated. It does make for different games.

But the core experience is the exact same.

It's a silly concept if you're not going to go all the way with it. The little shit they change is so pointless and comes down to little more than varying distractions along the grind fest to Hell.

"I got the quest to find the sign at the bottom of the first dungeon!"

"Well I got the quest to kill the guy at the bottom of the first dungeon!"

Riveting.

This is a fact. Personally I prefer a game with a well designed map that seems in some way related to the function of the building. Like the factories in Fallout 3, for instance. They were all kind of samey (they were factories) but their design seemed like an actual building that people would work in, and the fact that it was made by a person, rather than randomly generated from tiles, allowed the designers to throw in little hints of a world beyond the one you actively experience. (Ex. a locked door, behind which you find a corpse with a shotgun, a bunch of bullets, and empty cans of food). That sort of implied story makes me care about the world.

That said, what I just described has to do with my own preferences, which tend towards story heavy games. Diablo is not one of these. It's more of a hacky slashy turn monsters into pulp and time into wonderfully wasted time sort of a game. For that, a randomly generated dungeon causes players to play different tactical situations (monsters from both sides rather than one, teleporting monsters rather than extra strong ones, skeletons rather than zombies) every time they boot up the game. Given that these situations are the focus of the game, randomization of maps and enemies allows many more of them to exist, as an algorithm can generate a whole lot more situations than a human. Personally I don't like it as much as a human touch, but I understand the usefulness all the same.

Also, I like that 'inferior pants' is an actual item description in Diablo. Though the "Superior Leather Pants of Thorns' are my favorite random drop thus far. Simply due to the extreme discomfort anyone wearing them would have.

vxicepickxv:
If they made it at all like Diablo 2, then sometimes you won't even fight some bosses, or have some quests available, because they weren't generated. It does make for different games.

There are lots of optional dungeons and events (side quests) that may or may not appear in each playthrough, and I think you can't get all of them in a single playthrough, so there is a little more change than just rearranging rooms.

Elmoth:

Jman1236:
I'm waiting till the real money auction house opens up and if it's really that good to buy Diablo 3. Hopefully I'll be able to make it a second job.

You can only get diablo dollars to spend on diablo again, can't make it out to your bank account.

Problem?

That that isn't true? You can take it out of the game through paypal. Otherwise what would be the point in the difference between the RMAH? "Diablo dollars" are gold . And the fact that Blizzard takes a cut is normal; Ebay does it, As do most real life Auction houses, k'know to pay for the cost of the servers/selling it for you.

Hexenwolf:

canadamus_prime:

Grey Day for Elcia:
You always have to kill the Butcher in Diablo 1--it's a main story quest.

Well one time I didn't. Don't ask me to explain it, 'cause I don't really understand it either.

You most certainly do NOT have to always kill the Butcher in Diablo 1. The first main quest you get is random between three different ones.

Killing the Butcher, which gives you his cleaver, Killing the Skeleton King Leoric, which gives you his crown, and purifying the contaminated well by clearing out a cave of monsters, which gives you a ring.

Just as an aside, playing multiplayer results in absolutely no fighting over shiny pants because everyone generates their own pants. You can't see or pick up each others pants, though you can trade.

And that said, yes, I also hate the always online requirement for single player. "Oh you're playing solo? TOO BAD, SERVER MAINTENANCE."

Oh the server maintenance is a pain in the arse anyway, not the fixing stuff or actual issues, but the fact they go down every Tuesday at 2-11, I understand it for WoW, but why for D3?

canadamus_prime:

Grey Day for Elcia:

canadamus_prime:

I remember on one playthrough of the first Diablo I didn't have to fight the Butcher.

You always have to kill the Butcher in Diablo 1--it's a main story quest.

Well one time I didn't. Don't ask me to explain it, 'cause I don't really understand it either.

You most certainly do NOT have to always kill the Butcher in Diablo 1. The first main quest you get is random between three different ones.

Killing the Butcher, which gives you his cleaver, Killing the Skeleton King Leoric, which gives you his crown, and purifying the contaminated well by clearing out a cave of monsters, which gives you a ring.

Just as an aside, playing multiplayer results in absolutely no fighting over shiny pants because everyone generates their own pants. You can't see or pick up each others pants, though you can trade.

And that said, yes, I also hate the always online requirement for single player. "Oh you're playing solo? TOO BAD, SERVER MAINTENANCE."

It sounds a bit like a online Recettear without anime influences...

Grey Day for Elcia:
What a surprise. He found the boring, shit game the with forced online, both boring and shit and hated the forced online.

Quick question.

You played it?

Yes? Okay, I guess your OPINION is that it's bad.

No? Shut the hell up and don't judge things without knowing them, thanks.

The Forlorn:
I hope he didn't actually pay blizzard money to review the boring, shit game the with forced online. That would be contributing to more boring, shit, forced online games.

Something with Blizzard haters is and their love for boredom and fecal matter...

But obviously Blizzard made the game online-only because they hate people and they LOVE having to maintain server for characters and crucial game data unavailable in the client to prevent dupers and hackers breaking the game like they did in Diablo 2.

I still don't get why people who didn't play any of the sequels review THIRD game in the series. That's like reviewing Lord of the Rings: Return of the King without watching or reading previous chapters.

"So, this dumb halfling thing called... Fredo... or something... takes a magical... ring that... gives him magical powers... and has to destroy it by throwing into the core of the planet.. and the sun... or something... ANYWAY IT'S SHIT CAUSE IT'S LONG AND HARD TO READ/WATCH."

FYI - Normal Mode is easy on purpose. D2's normal was also very easy. You could finish it in a matter of hours, and with friend's help, you could hit level 80 in 4-5 hours and get to Hell difficulty. Dungeons are randomly generated for the purpose of multiple play-throughs, either due to difficulty levels or different characters.

I really, really can't understand how he can criticize not having melee attacks on a caster (despite being able to... remove that left-click and get normal attacks, if he did research).

"Hurr, I'm a squishy mage with almost no health or defense or melee abilities... I'LL SWING MY DAGGER AT THEM". For that exact reason, Normal Mode is easy... people going into melee with casters on purpose.

Seems to me like this is one of the most forced, uneducated, prejudiced reviews he's had to date.

vxicepickxv:
If they made it at all like Diablo 2, then sometimes you won't even fight some bosses, or have some quests available, because they weren't generated. It does make for different games.

All the quests are available always in Diablo 2 and all the Uniques are in the same place (random 'bosses' are random and not really bosses, just tough guys with mean friends). Diablo 2 randomly generated maps and enemies from a pre-set list but the quests and the run of the quests (vague map, reward, end boss of quest) was always the same...

Always online is ridiculous, though Yahtzee need not fear people stealing his shiny trousers online, since drops are individual (a feature I really do like). He noted that you can change buttons in the credits so that complaint is out.
The randomly generated maps is for replay, it's more fun to go through a different map layout than the same one every time (gambling principle? I'm not sure, it just is for me anyway). When you're looking for shiny things (definitely gambling principle) it helps.

I enjoy the game, I think I preferred Diablo 2 but thinking about the Diablo 2 I first played and the V1.10 expansion I actually loved...I'm willing to give D3 time. The always online DRM can go suck a donkey though, I hate it. I don't know what the solution is that they're looking for but it's certainly not that. Goddammit I want to be able to play offline as well.

Chairman Miaow:

Kalezian:

Jman1236:
I'm waiting till the real money auction house opens up and if it's really that good to buy Diablo 3. Hopefully I'll be able to make it a second job.

I think somewhere they said that it is going to be suspended indefinitely due to player concerns about it.

and so the reason for always online is?....

Files necessary for dupers, hackers and other scum that destroyed D2 economy are server-side. You can't access them through client, you "borrow them" for your session. You only have textures, sounds, videos. They have item data, monster data, affixes, prefixes, item properties and so on. You can't even make a maphack because you don't have map data.

canadamus_prime:

Well one time I didn't. Don't ask me to explain it, 'cause I don't really understand it either.

May I pretend that you found the secret diplomacy pathway, creating a splinter universe where everyone just talks out their problems over tea and the Angels, Demons and Humans all realize that there wasn't really any purpose to the Eternal Conflict and then they all go home and leave each other alone except for once a year when they have a picnic and water balloon toss?

(captcha: like the dickens)

Lunar Templar:
called it

second i saw the game knew he wasn't going to like it cause, when has he ever liked this kinda game.

but really? whining about the 'random dungeon generator'? what -.- did he need a 'filler complaint' or something.

Call me crazy, but I think Yahtzee actually -liked- Diablo III, if only a little.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
What I really don't get is the appeal of randomly-generated dungeons. Surely that could only possibly pay off during a second play-through when-stroke-if the player realizes that this small handful of barren rooms maniacally copy-pasted and then arbitrarily stapled together seems to have been arbitrarily stapled together slightly different to before.

A legion of NetHack players and their collection of recovered Amulets of Yendor respectfully disagree with you on this point.

Do not be fooled by the precambrian graphics -- there is depth here.

Abedeus:

Chairman Miaow:

Kalezian:

I think somewhere they said that it is going to be suspended indefinitely due to player concerns about it.

and so the reason for always online is?....

Files necessary for dupers, hackers and other scum that destroyed D2 economy are server-side. You can't access them through client, you "borrow them" for your session. You only have textures, sounds, videos. They have item data, monster data, affixes, prefixes, item properties and so on. You can't even make a maphack because you don't have map data.

I feel like Steam games don't have much of a problem with hacking, and yet the many single player games I have on steam don't have latency issues. I'm sure they put a lot of thought into the whole process, given how much dev time went into Diablo III, but it still feels like a cheap shot when I die due to latency rather than something I did.

beefpelican:

Abedeus:

Chairman Miaow:
and so the reason for always online is?....

Files necessary for dupers, hackers and other scum that destroyed D2 economy are server-side. You can't access them through client, you "borrow them" for your session. You only have textures, sounds, videos. They have item data, monster data, affixes, prefixes, item properties and so on. You can't even make a maphack because you don't have map data.

I feel like Steam games don't have much of a problem with hacking, and yet the many single player games I have on steam don't have latency issues. I'm sure they put a lot of thought into the whole process, given how much dev time went into Diablo III, but it still feels like a cheap shot when I die due to latency rather than something I did.

Steam games don't have real money auction house to protect, you can't dupe items because those are server-side as well. You are comparing tomatoes to hamburgers.

Also, hackers are quickly found on public servers and their accounts are permabanned. In D3, you could use a guest pass to dupe items safely, then slowly pass them around (in Guild Wars that's how dupers do it - they don't sell massive amounts of items, they duplicate them, then release slowly into the market, getting money and slowly ruining economy and items' worth for legit players.

beefpelican:

Abedeus:

Chairman Miaow:
and so the reason for always online is?....

Files necessary for dupers, hackers and other scum that destroyed D2 economy are server-side. You can't access them through client, you "borrow them" for your session. You only have textures, sounds, videos. They have item data, monster data, affixes, prefixes, item properties and so on. You can't even make a maphack because you don't have map data.

I feel like Steam games don't have much of a problem with hacking, and yet the many single player games I have on steam don't have latency issues. I'm sure they put a lot of thought into the whole process, given how much dev time went into Diablo III, but it still feels like a cheap shot when I die due to latency rather than something I did.

On the other hand, steam games don't have a real money auction house, so perhaps it matters more for Diablo III to be hacker secure, to prevent the destruction of the economy. So there's that.

Yer doin it wrong...

The loot is individualized, they can't steal the trousers that drop for you :/.

Abedeus:

beefpelican:

Abedeus:

Files necessary for dupers, hackers and other scum that destroyed D2 economy are server-side. You can't access them through client, you "borrow them" for your session. You only have textures, sounds, videos. They have item data, monster data, affixes, prefixes, item properties and so on. You can't even make a maphack because you don't have map data.

I feel like Steam games don't have much of a problem with hacking, and yet the many single player games I have on steam don't have latency issues. I'm sure they put a lot of thought into the whole process, given how much dev time went into Diablo III, but it still feels like a cheap shot when I die due to latency rather than something I did.

Steam games don't have real money auction house to protect, you can't dupe items because those are server-side as well. You are comparing tomatoes to hamburgers.

Also, hackers are quickly found on public servers and their accounts are permabanned. In D3, you could use a guest pass to dupe items safely, then slowly pass them around (in Guild Wars that's how dupers do it - they don't sell massive amounts of items, they duplicate them, then release slowly into the market, getting money and slowly ruining economy and items' worth for legit players.

Which you realized and posted before I did. Well dang, there goes my righteous anger. Still annoying, but at least understandable.

Didn't even talk about how the Auction House alters the drops in your game, even if you don't use it, and that in itself pushes you to use the auction house lowering the drops in your game...It's like an infinite cycle of greed...Well it will be when the RMAH comes out.

Now knows that you can reassign primary attacks

Shit! Now I have nothing to be smug about. Damn you Yahtzee!

beefpelican:

Abedeus:

beefpelican:

I feel like Steam games don't have much of a problem with hacking, and yet the many single player games I have on steam don't have latency issues. I'm sure they put a lot of thought into the whole process, given how much dev time went into Diablo III, but it still feels like a cheap shot when I die due to latency rather than something I did.

Steam games don't have real money auction house to protect, you can't dupe items because those are server-side as well. You are comparing tomatoes to hamburgers.

Also, hackers are quickly found on public servers and their accounts are permabanned. In D3, you could use a guest pass to dupe items safely, then slowly pass them around (in Guild Wars that's how dupers do it - they don't sell massive amounts of items, they duplicate them, then release slowly into the market, getting money and slowly ruining economy and items' worth for legit players.

Which you realized and posted before I did. Well dang, there goes my righteous anger. Still annoying, but at least understandable.

As much as it pisses me off, I'd rather have always-online than playing, finding uber-unique item worth a LOT of in-game money or real money, then finding out that market was flooded with duped copies that outweigh the legal ones in a 1:10000 ratio.

Wink wink, high runes, wink wink.

Plot spoilers below:

Few people notice this, but you never actually kill Diablo fully. The fight ends when he has a tiny amount of HP left. In normal solo, this is 62hp.

vengerofthelight:

Lunar Templar:
called it

second i saw the game knew he wasn't going to like it cause, when has he ever liked this kinda game.

but really? whining about the 'random dungeon generator'? what -.- did he need a 'filler complaint' or something.

Call me crazy, but I think Yahtzee actually -liked- Diablo III, if only a little.

not if he's bitching about the dungeon generator or 'the game being to easy' or not finishing it at all. D3 is rather short after all, and he was half way there act wise if he was fighting Belial (meteor attack boss he was talking about)

Grey Day for Elcia:

canadamus_prime:

vxicepickxv:
If they made it at all like Diablo 2, then sometimes you won't even fight some bosses, or have some quests available, because they weren't generated. It does make for different games.

I remember on one playthrough of the first Diablo I didn't have to fight the Butcher.

You always have to kill the Butcher in Diablo 1--it's a main story quest.

Not it's not. The only 'main' quests in the first game were finding Lazarus and killing Diablo, and the former is only done to get to the latter.

Also I'm kinda glad Yahtzee's build is almost identical to the one I intend to use for Witch Doctor, so now I know it'll work!

Kragg:

Jman1236:
I'm waiting till the real money auction house opens up and if it's really that good to buy Diablo 3. Hopefully I'll be able to make it a second job.

how many do you think have the same idea? youre competing with every player on the continent when you do btw and they take a huge cut, its not gonna make you minimum wage and it has been postponed indef, so might not come out ever

For that matter, I seriously doubt you'll even make back the price of the game after several years of obsessive playing. There will be loads of other people playing D3 obsessively who won't even care about money, they will just dump anything that isn't better than their current gear on the gold auction house and flood the market for anything that isn't incredibly rare. While people willing to buy their way through the game will mostly only pay $10 or so, and will be a small minority of the playerbase anyway.

Frankly I don't think you'll even pay for a WOW subscription.

Madmanonfire:

canadamus_prime:

Grey Day for Elcia:
You always have to kill the Butcher in Diablo 1--it's a main story quest.

Well one time I didn't. Don't ask me to explain it, 'cause I don't really understand it either.

That's because the Butcher is not a main story quest. There's a 1/3 or so chance that it's left out of a character's playthrough. The only main story quests are Archbishop Lazarus and Diablo. Grey just doesn't know what s/he's talking about.

Just to clear this up.

http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Diablo_Quests

The Butchers' quest shows up 2/3 of the time in single player. In multiplayer, the Butcher is always there, every single time. Maybe Grey preferred multiplayer.

"Groin-focused carpet-bombing"

It's been a looong time since I did a spittake. I nearly drowned this time. That'll learn me to not drink while watching ZP.

Elmoth:

Jman1236:
I'm waiting till the real money auction house opens up and if it's really that good to buy Diablo 3. Hopefully I'll be able to make it a second job.

You can only get diablo dollars to spend on diablo again, can't make it out to your bank account.

Problem?

quote directly from the cardboard box Diablo 3 came in when i got it

"Use the Real Money Auction House to buy and sell items for real world currency. Then draw on your earnings to buy ever more powerful items or cash out your trades, take the money, and run. the choice is yours."

ofc subject to change, but you would be able to take your money out of the game. Now im wondering the legality of it all. if Blizzard control the drops what is stopping them from making sure some people get certain drops to then sell? ......

I've always thought that Blizzard is a James Bond villain. It can't be Dr. No's group, since that is Apple with Steve Jobs being Dr. No. I imagine Blizzard is more like Blofeld and his group.

He takes the piss out of De Montford uni a while back, now he makes a Southend reference.

I like C:

You can bind any attack to any key. You have to find the option in the gameplay menu. If you'd bothered to explore the menu you would have found this option. Also loot drops are set up so that only the player that they drop for can collect them. You'd have found this out if you'd actually played a single game of multiplayer and watched an object for all of 3 seconds.

I have to ask Yahtzee, did you actually even play this game? Or did you run through half a level on someone else's computer and then decide to post this?

Yes you have to log into the battle.net server to play, no you don't have to play multiplayer. There's a button in the goddamn menu that specifically says Open Game to Public.

Finally, equipping weapons INCREASES YOUR ATTACK REGARDLESS OF THEIR USE. This means that giving someone a big shiny sword, still makes your little spider more powerful. You'd know this too if you'd ACTUALLY BOTHERED TO PLAY THE GAME.

For shame. For shame.

canadamus_prime:
I could be wrong, but I think part of the idea of randomly generated dungeons is, besides replayability, is that your experience will be different than your friend's experience so you can stand around the water cooler comparing.

That's definitely part of the idea. But in Diablo games, which are meant to be replayed several times, having non-random dungeons would bore players since they'd always know what's coming. Random dungeons also allows for randomized encounters which keeps the experience fresh somewhat. It's not really about water cooler stories, though there are some randomly generated events that can be pretty interesting, such as finding an alchemist in his shack and saving him from demons or whatnot.

Back in the day, a vid like this would have fetched Yahtzee 300-500 replies.

Anyway, I have no plan to get Diablo 3. It looks so boring and out of place.

That was rather mild. In short : " I don't like dungeon crawlers with randomly generated levels, but this is a pretty good dungeon crawler with randomly generated levels ".

Good for you Yahtzee, now get your ass to review Dragon's Dogma attempts of being Skyrim + Shadow of The Colossus.

And also review Starhawk, who ripped your idea of Space Flying: The Game

Blaster395:
Plot spoilers below:

Few people notice this, but you never actually kill Diablo fully. The fight ends when he has a tiny amount of HP left. In normal solo, this is 62hp.

If you watch the cinematic following the 'death' of Diablo, the Soulstone doesn't disintegrate. It'll just find a new host. You watch. The expansion will probably feature a fuller, bigger more terrifying Diablo as it will have found a new host. Screw the Effeminate weird fucking big-headed one you fought. That fight was Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy

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