Jimquisition: Let's End the FPS Sausage-fest

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SnakeoilSage:
Team Fortress 2 has the Heavy and the Scout.

Any argument against scaling issues is invalid.

TF2 has a rock, paper, scissors class approach to it's game balance. Most shooters don't. Everybody is supposedly on the same level. your argument is invalid

Mylinkay Asdara:
Yup. It sucks to have to play dudes when you aren't one. It's not that you're playing a dude, so much, it's that you have to, because they didn't give you any other option. My fiancÚ knows I have 'dibs' on any female toons when a game has them, because there are usually only a few and they are mine because I have spent years and years and years in a male avatar across so many titles that when the option to play my own gender comes up, I'm doing it. Even though that sometimes forces me to play character types I wouldn't normally favor, if they are the girl, that's me. It's a little ridiculous that we're still in this situation, as players, where we have to scavenge for our own gendered toons.

When you say toon do you refer to games that let you create your character (Bioware games) or that offer different premade characters of different sexes? (Dead Island)

I don't like the argument that game forces you to play as Nathan Drake or Kratos. It's like saying a movie forces its protagonist onto you. Since games are becoming more like movies and made with that mindset, and AAA games are risk averse we always get our Michael Bay protagonists.

Technologically it's not currently feasible to have the choice of playing as Nathan and Natalie Drake since the Uncharted games for instance are highly cinematic (Have plenty of pre-rendered cut scenes) and disc memory wouldn't be enough to fit all the content for the male and female protagonist plus the game's budget would skyrocket.

Of course this doesn't mean that there shouldn't be the choose your sex option in any game, only games that aren't highly cinematic, of which they are many.

Another option is doing it the JRPG way and have both men and women in the party without a clear protagonist among the group. Like Final Fantasy VI.

Imp Emissary:

ex275w:

Come on Jim, you shouldn't have thanked God this time, thank Mother Gea, when dressing a feminist womyn, you don't need to thank a phallocentric Male God, thank a female one, for Gea's sake.

:) You're practice futility friend! God is omnipotent, and beyond comprehension. Only nothing is omnipotent and you can't see nothing. That means he, she, it, and they are all "correct" and "incorrect" pronouns to use on God. God is a woman, a man, a genderless thingy, and a group of creatures all at once and yet not at all.
<_< But I can't picture that in my head, let alone describe it.
;) So, lets just say God in lady form looks like Oprah.

Also, so we stay with the topic; Not having playable women in shooters is crap, realism is a poor excuse (especially when we have soldiers fighting unmaned four legged walking tanks), and strangely Jim is a pretty lady.

Doesn't the Bible refer to god as a He and as the LORD (The male version of a lady, though Fire Emblem has female lords so...) and as creating Adam in his image, meaning chest hair, beard, and a dong. Or was this all additions made by the King James version?

I guess if you want Dog to look like Steve Buscemi or Salma Hayek you have the right, I was just going by what I know from the Bible.

Also why do games use realism to justify laziness? Realism is supposed to add different mechanics and not remove options from games. As long as it's believable (doesn't break the rules the game sets) I'll think God of War is real.

Bindal:

sideshow:

Terminate421:
You forgot Halo! Look at the difference between Spartans!

Female:
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/110/1100653/halo-reach-20100621020443589-000.jpg

Male:
http://www.gamerdna.com/public/images/user_image/set201/image/201809/playermodel.ashx.png?1225157443

..........................WHAT DIFFERENCE?!?!?!?

Kind of the point - those two models are ALMOST the same (female has a slightly slimmer hip and bit sexier butt - but that's only noticeable when they are next to each other in idle).

gotta ask, hows that a bad thing? the spartan armor is designed to be functional (for that universe) not sexy

Bravo, I usually yell "poppy cock!" at these types of points but you have a talent for broadening my perspectives.

Ladies are totally in on the FPS genre and I always remember them being there... since the Quake days at least. My ex fiance played Bad Company 2 with me all the time and she was very good. She too would complain some times about having to play with a male model. On Black Ops I totally got my ass handed to me over and over by a certain female. I was even thinking then, that it would have been cool if the model matched the voice that was talking all that shit to me. The point you made about Alien is spot on for sure. The only Alien game I remember playing a female, that being Ripley was in Alien 3 for SNES.

Last Note: Killzone 2/3 would have been bad-ass with female models.

(This is a long one so grab some water)

Speaking as someone who was in the U.S. Army, and on top of that, in a unit that had women serving in a front line combat capacity (MP Combat Battalion, every female soldier, and male for that matter, in my Company had a CAB) I can say, at least in "Modern" FPS's (Call of Duty and it's ilk) that women have absolutely no place as a player character.

Fact of the matter is, almost all of these modern setting FPS's involve the player being part of, or something there equivalent to, a Special Operations Troop. There are no special operations troops in the world that employ women in Combat roles. That's not conjecture, that's a fact. Women DO serve in U.S. Army Special Forces, MARSOC, NAVSPECGRU, as well as many foreign Special Operations Units such as English SAS and SBS, however only in clerical or administrative positions. Even the Russian military, who has historically been the most open to allowing women to serve in "traditional" male roles (Russian being one of the few countries to have multiple female fighter Ace's, EXTREMELY proficient snipers, and female chiefs of staff) To put it simply, women do not kick down doors in Special Operations. And, for the foreseeable future, they won't.

There are a variety of reasons, some range from as innocuous as ability for a special operations troop to blend in with their surrounding (a female soldier would stand out quite a bit more in Kandahar trying to gain intelligence from a local clan) to as extreme as WHY women are not allowed in front line infantry units. It is funny, even within the military it is not... often explained *why* women are NOT allowed in true front line units (In the Army's case that would be Combat MOS's in Combat Arm's branches (Infantry, Armor, ect). As far as the U.S. Military (and English Military although they have an extra reason) is concerned there are two critical reasons why women are prohibited from these positions:

1) Women, baring the rare exceptions, have grossly different physical and hygienic demands that are not conducive to a front line Infantry unit. If a male soldier goes 3 months without showering and at best changing/washing clothes once a week, in all likelihood he will be physically fine. Probably not happy, nor anyone catching a whiff of him, but he will not develop (baring open wounds or something of that nature) an infection PURELY from not showering/changing clothes (I can speak from personal experience on two tours on this). A female, without being overly graphic, cannot. They will develop specific infections that are unique to their gender due to lack of hygiene. Hygiene is important in the field, but to many degree's it goes by the wayside.

Additionally women, baring the rare exception, can't meet the same physical requirement. That's a data supported fact in the U.S. Military and the English military. Women even have separate physical standards in the U.S. Military that are VERY much different from the males (for example, on the Army APFT in the 17-21 age range, the female 2Mile run time of 15:36 is a 100% score, while the same time for a male equals a 64, just 5 points shy of failing the exam, what this is in essence saying is the absolute best score time for a woman in the Army is just BARELY passing for a male) These score discrepancies don't exist to make it easier for women, nor do women pass the APFT in a far greater percentage. In actuality, the pass/fail ratio is relatively similar between both genders. Women simply are not as strong as men. Period. We're different, what a surprise. However that degree of difference, while not a problem in everyday life, or even clerical/administrative duties in the military, both are a far cry from front line service such as infantry. NOW take it to the next point, given this is about games and games are almost always about Special Operations, Special Operations universally have DRASTICALLY higher physical requirements than any regular military. They in fact are SO high, that barely 1% (was like .96% or something last time I saw the statistic) of the U.S. Army, male or female, can consistently make the standard.

So in summation of that, not only can women not meet the "bare" minimum of standard physical requirements, there is in no way shape or form, that they could meet the physical requirements of a Special Operations troop.

2) This is the most unknown, but not hidden though, reason, and that is physiological, and not in the way you'd think. this ALSO is the reason there was resistance to repealing don't ask don't tell. Why no 4 star ever mentioned it in the press is beyond me as it is a fairly... logical reason to bar both homosexuals and women at least in frontline combat units.

Men have a natural urge to protect. This is a biological fact. Those rare individuals that don't are the exception, not the rule. In the military, this holds true. However the urge to protect a battle buddy and perhaps, someone you're attract too, are drastically different. In the military there is one thing held above all else; the mission. Absolutely nothing can come between the soldier and the mission. No danger, no person. Only a threat to the mission itself can cause pause. This is paramount and when you become an officer this is drilled home all the more clear. Personal relationships CANNOT be allowed to come between the soldier and the mission.

What this means is a soldier cannot allow himself to be in a position where they choose to save a friend/romantic interest over completing a mission. Period. End of story. Black and white (in this rare time, the world is no gray). Now a group of straight men, or for that matter, a group of straight women, this problem won't arise, however if you mix units, or have homosexuals involved, then a problem can ensue. We've all been attracted to SOMEONE at a job or school before. Can anyone honestly say that did not effect their work behavior and perhaps even how hard they worked a company or school goal? Even something as simple of skipping a class to be around that individual or rushed paperwork at a job to finish early or took an extra long lunch break, or even just being distracted. While... understandable (and even perhaps tolerable) in the regular world, this is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE in the military. As an MP, and our unit being COED, I saw how this *did* cause regular issues, both in and out of the field. It is a TRUE problem and MP's are relatively small units. I can only image the problems that could happen in a large Infantry battalion.

You couple this with the scientific fact that men have an urge to protect women, and there is a spell for disaster. To return to the idea of all women units, that in theory could work 100% fine in say a regular infantry unit, but keeping in mind the overarching theme here of women in the military IN games, this does not work. As said, even few MALES can attain the necessary physical skills, and qualifications to obtain Special Operations quality, and granting that the exceptional female may have that ability, there is not enough of either to attempt to have an all female special operations troop. The Russians tried that once with the NKVD, and I suppose the Amazonian guard might qualify (although I would question whether or not they were as qualified as say, a member of the British SAS, or German KSK)

So if you followed me through this, (long read I apologize) those are the two key reasons right now women are not allowed in "simple" infantry units. To make the next step to Special Operations is just impossible in the world as we know it now. Drastic technology or necessity is all that could change that at this point.

Now to tie it all into the grander topic, in "modern" setting FPS's, women cannot be player characters. At least in any section involving the "classic" idea of what a modern FPS is suppose to be (kicking down doors, setting charges, special insertions/infiltrations)

That said you *could* have women in a modern setting FPS however it would not be like any other FPS as it would have to involve being part of a VERY different military group than Special Operations. For example in the case of the U.S. Military, for all intents and purposes (baring a few, isolated exceptions) the only roles women can take on that also tend to involve "true" combat are MP's (and their Air Force, Marine, and Naval equivalents) SeaBee's in the Navy, a few jobs for female's in the Artillery, combat pilots, and, at least in the U.S. Army, a few jobs in the Ordinance branch and Chemical Branch can involve combat operations (and said jobs are open to females).

And to be fair, a videogame about being an MP in Iraq would be interesting (and I'd buy it in a heartbeat, but it would be relatively boring as standing in/next to a Humvee for an hour then a small firefight then returning to FOB, rinse, repeat ad-nasum, would be a really boring game.

AND this is all assuming that whatever pretense of "realism" the developer is trying to maintain even cares about any of this to start.

Vampire cat:

ex275w:

Well from what I know from religion God (with an uppercase), usually refers to the male Christian god, occasionally known as YHWH or Yahweh. While god (with a lower case) usually means gods like Zeus, Aprhodite or Artemis.
Still, he really should have referred to Gea, since apparently that's what some radical feminists do, and not referring to a explicitly female deity is misogynist and cissexist.

Why so? He's not roleplaying a radical feminist, just a (very sexy) female Jim! No reason he needs to go all radical on us =3.

...

So hot...

I would love Jim to go radical in my bed, together, naked. It's just that s/he reminded me of Andrea Dworkin, who was a radical feminist.

Still, maybe Jim should've had a woman present the show, only she would be speaking in Jim Sterling's voice, due to the power of video editing.

ex275w:
It really is a weird phenomenon, since I barely play any multi-player FPS's I hadn't heard about this issue. Still not putting any women is stupid in games that are supposed to have massive appeal or are in the future is plain lazy.

Yet I can think of a FPS that needs no female characters and that is Team Fortress 2, a game which still plenty of women play and has tons of yaoi for some reason. It would interesting to release a Team Fortress 2 esque FPS with only women in it and see how it goes.

Come on Jim, you shouldn't have thanked God this time, thank Mother Gea, when dressing a feminist womyn, you don't need to thank a phallocentric Male God, thank a female one, for Gea's sake.

They already have that. Final Combat. More of a rip-off than an actual game, it includes a schoolgirl Sniper. (Heave, gag)

Wait a minute. Waaaaaait a minute. Women aren't allowed to be infantry? Has no one in the military seen fucking Aliens?

Well said, Halo Reach had female models and I never noticed the difference in gameplay/hitboxes.

RC1138:
(This is a long one so grab some water)

Speaking as someone who was in the U.S. Army, and on top of that, in a unit that had women serving in a front line combat capacity (MP Combat Battalion, every female soldier, and male for that matter, in my Company had a CAB) I can say, at least in "Modern" FPS's (Call of Duty and it's ilk) that women have absolutely no place as a player character.

Fact of the matter is, almost all of these modern setting FPS's involve the player being part of, or something there equivalent to, a Special Operations Troop. There are no special operations troops in the world that employ women in Combat roles. That's not conjecture, that's a fact. Women DO serve in U.S. Army Special Forces, MARSOC, NAVSPECGRU, as well as many foreign Special Operations Units such as English SAS and SBS, however only in clerical or administrative positions. Even the Russian military, who has historically been the most open to allowing women to serve in "traditional" male roles (Russian being one of the few countries to have multiple female fighter Ace's, EXTREMELY proficient snipers, and female chiefs of staff) To put it simply, women do not kick down doors in Special Operations. And, for the foreseeable future, they won't.

There are a variety of reasons, some range from as innocuous as ability for a special operations troop to blend in with their surrounding (a female soldier would stand out quite a bit more in Kandahar trying to gain intelligence from a local clan) to as extreme as WHY women are not allowed in front line infantry units. It is funny, even within the military it is not... often explained *why* women are NOT allowed in true front line units (In the Army's case that would be Combat MOS's in Combat Arm's branches (Infantry, Armor, ect). As far as the U.S. Military (and English Military although they have an extra reason) is concerned there are two critical reasons why women are prohibited from these positions:

1) Women, baring the rare exceptions, have grossly different physical and hygienic demands that are not conducive to a front line Infantry unit. If a male soldier goes 3 months without showering and at best changing/washing clothes once a week, in all likelihood he will be physically fine. Probably not happy, nor anyone catching a whiff of him, but he will not develop (baring open wounds or something of that nature) an infection PURELY from not showering/changing clothes (I can speak from personal experience on two tours on this). A female, without being overly graphic, cannot. They will develop specific infections that are unique to their gender due to lack of hygiene. Hygiene is important in the field, but to many degree's it goes by the wayside.

Additionally women, baring the rare exception, can't meet the same physical requirement. That's a data supported fact in the U.S. Military and the English military. Women even have separate physical standards in the U.S. Military that are VERY much different from the males (for example, on the Army APFT in the 17-21 age range, the female 2Mile run time of 15:36 is a 100% score, while the same time for a male equals a 64, just 5 points shy of failing the exam, what this is in essence saying is the absolute best score time for a woman in the Army is just BARELY passing for a male) These score discrepancies don't exist to make it easier for women, nor do women pass the APFT in a far greater percentage. In actuality, the pass/fail ratio is relatively similar between both genders. Women simply are not as strong as men. Period. We're different, what a surprise. However that degree of difference, while not a problem in everyday life, or even clerical/administrative duties in the military, both are a far cry from front line service such as infantry. NOW take it to the next point, given this is about games and games are almost always about Special Operations, Special Operations universally have DRASTICALLY higher physical requirements than any regular military. They in fact are SO high, that barely 1% (was like .96% or something last time I saw the statistic) of the U.S. Army, male or female, can consistently make the standard.

So in summation of that, not only can women not meet the "bare" minimum of standard physical requirements, there is in no way shape or form, that they could meet the physical requirements of a Special Operations troop.

2) This is the most unknown, but not hidden though, reason, and that is physiological, and not in the way you'd think. this ALSO is the reason there was resistance to repealing don't ask don't tell. Why no 4 star ever mentioned it in the press is beyond me as it is a fairly... logical reason to bar both homosexuals and women at least in frontline combat units.

Men have a natural urge to protect. This is a biological fact. Those rare individuals that don't are the exception, not the rule. In the military, this holds true. However the urge to protect a battle buddy and perhaps, someone you're attract too, are drastically different. In the military there is one thing held above all else; the mission. Absolutely nothing can come between the soldier and the mission. No danger, no person. Only a threat to the mission itself can cause pause. This is paramount and when you become an officer this is drilled home all the more clear. Personal relationships CANNOT be allowed to come between the soldier and the mission.

What this means is a soldier cannot allow himself to be in a position where they choose to save a friend/romantic interest over completing a mission. Period. End of story. Black and white (in this rare time, the world is no gray). Now a group of straight men, or for that matter, a group of straight women, this problem won't arise, however if you mix units, or have homosexuals involved, then a problem can ensue. We've all been attracted to SOMEONE at a job or school before. Can anyone honestly say that did not effect their work behavior and perhaps even how hard they worked a company or school goal? Even something as simple of skipping a class to be around that individual or rushed paperwork at a job to finish early or took an extra long lunch break, or even just being distracted. While... understandable (and even perhaps tolerable) in the regular world, this is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE in the military. As an MP, and our unit being COED, I saw how this *did* cause regular issues, both in and out of the field. It is a TRUE problem and MP's are relatively small units. I can only image the problems that could happen in a large Infantry battalion.

You couple this with the scientific fact that men have an urge to protect women, and there is a spell for disaster. To return to the idea of all women units, that in theory could work 100% fine in say a regular infantry unit, but keeping in mind the overarching theme here of women in the military IN games, this does not work. As said, even few MALES can attain the necessary physical skills, and qualifications to obtain Special Operations quality, and granting that the exceptional female may have that ability, there is not enough of either to attempt to have an all female special operations troop. The Russians tried that once with the NKVD, and I suppose the Amazonian guard might qualify (although I would question whether or not they were as qualified as say, a member of the British SAS, or German KSK)

So if you followed me through this, (long read I apologize) those are the two key reasons right now women are not allowed in "simple" infantry units. To make the next step to Special Operations is just impossible in the world as we know it now. Drastic technology or necessity is all that could change that at this point.

Now to tie it all into the grander topic, in "modern" setting FPS's, women cannot be player characters. At least in any section involving the "classic" idea of what a modern FPS is suppose to be (kicking down doors, setting charges, special insertions/infiltrations)

That said you *could* have women in a modern setting FPS however it would not be like any other FPS as it would have to involve being part of a VERY different military group than Special Operations. For example in the case of the U.S. Military, for all intents and purposes (baring a few, isolated exceptions) the only roles women can take on that also tend to involve "true" combat are MP's (and their Air Force, Marine, and Naval equivalents) SeaBee's in the Navy, a few jobs for female's in the Artillery, combat pilots, and, at least in the U.S. Army, a few jobs in the Ordinance branch and Chemical Branch can involve combat operations (and said jobs are open to females).

And to be fair, a videogame about being an MP in Iraq would be interesting (and I'd buy it in a heartbeat, but it would be relatively boring as standing in/next to a Humvee for an hour then a small firefight then returning to FOB, rinse, repeat ad-nasum, would be a really boring game.

AND this is all assuming that whatever pretense of "realism" the developer is trying to maintain even cares about any of this to start.

Awesome points for sure but I have to lean on games being made for fantasy. Even so called "realistic", "tactical" shooters are feeding you some fantastic stories to play in. A special Ops type of single player story that is based in the present is understandable from a male perspective but multi-player can be flexible enough to accommodate a female player. What about a game like Deus Ex? A female option would of rocked it.

Lunar Templar:

Bindal:

sideshow:

..........................WHAT DIFFERENCE?!?!?!?

Kind of the point - those two models are ALMOST the same (female has a slightly slimmer hip and bit sexier butt - but that's only noticeable when they are next to each other in idle).

gotta ask, hows that a bad thing? the spartan armor is designed to be functional (for that universe) not sexy

Never said it's bad - it's actually proving the point, that to make a female model doesn't require a serious change in model, just a minor one and maybe a slight different animation when idle and maybe walking (not running). A female model doesn't have to be "sexy" at all - just clearly more feminine than the male counterpart. And Reach shows, how you can do it without really spending much resources on an entirely new model.

liam_whinery:

Awesome points for sure but I have to lean on games being made for fantasy. Even so called "realistic", "tactical" shooters are feeding you some fantastic stories to play in. A special Ops type of single player story that is based in the present is understandable from a male perspective but multi-player can be flexible enough to accommodate a female player. What about a game like Deus Ex? A female option would of rocked it.

I was speaking purely on the concept of modern setting (that is to say, 1975-2012) FPS that take place in OUR world. Things like futuristic or even straight up fantasy (Bioshock comes to mind) is a whole different thing and WAY past anything I'm talking about.

Basically if the phrase "Call of Duty clone" (or CoD itself) is involved in a games general description then women *should not* be the player character.

el_kabong:
Fantasy/SciFi shooters really depends on the franchise. I wouldn't be comfortable if some game company shoe-horned in a female Space Marine into the 40K universe (though I'd definitely welcome female characters from the Sisters of Battle or other factions). In Aliens, it's not only fitting that they're should be women, but a distinct step away from the franchise to not include them.

On that note, I should point out that a secondary charterer in WH40K: Space Marine was a Female Guardsman. Also, every Farseer I can remember in Dawn of War has been female, with no exceptions (though with the ridiculous voice synthesizer, I'm wondering if we should use the term for a Female Robot instead X3)

CAPATCHA: Fancy Pants. Clearly this is what the Capatcha thinks of Jim in this episode X3

undeadsuitor:

Terminate421:
You forgot Halo! Look at the difference between Spartans!

Female:
-

Male:
-

Is this supposed to be a bad thing? I kind of like it. The armor is made for duty, not looks. It would have been hilarious if female spartans lacked waste armor to show off their stomach because.....female

It wasn't intended to be bad at all. I only mentioned that Jim kinda forgot that Halo has been doing the female soldiers for a while, even in the first game. They started getting playable at Halo 3.

ex275w:

Imp Emissary:

ex275w:

Come on Jim, you shouldn't have thanked God this time, thank Mother Gea, when dressing a feminist womyn, you don't need to thank a phallocentric Male God, thank a female one, for Gea's sake.

:) You're practice futility friend! God is omnipotent, and beyond comprehension. Only nothing is omnipotent and you can't see nothing. That means he, she, it, and they are all "correct" and "incorrect" pronouns to use on God. God is a woman, a man, a genderless thingy, and a group of creatures all at once and yet not at all.
<_< But I can't picture that in my head, let alone describe it.
;) So, lets just say God in lady form looks like Oprah.

Also, so we stay with the topic; Not having playable women in shooters is crap, realism is a poor excuse (especially when we have soldiers fighting unmaned four legged walking tanks), and strangely Jim is a pretty lady.

Doesn't the Bible refer to god as a He and as the LORD (The male version of a lady, though Fire Emblem has female lords so...) and as creating Adam in his image, meaning chest hair, beard, and a dong. Or was this all additions made by the King James version?

I guess if you want Dog to look like Steve Buscemi or Salma Hayek you have the right, I was just going by what I know from the Bible.

Also why do games use realism to justify laziness? Realism is supposed to add different mechanics and not remove options from games. As long as it's believable (doesn't break the rules the game sets) I'll think God of War is real.

Read it again. Both male and female were created in God's image.

Bindal:

Lunar Templar:

Bindal:

Kind of the point - those two models are ALMOST the same (female has a slightly slimmer hip and bit sexier butt - but that's only noticeable when they are next to each other in idle).

gotta ask, hows that a bad thing? the spartan armor is designed to be functional (for that universe) not sexy

Never said it's bad - it's actually proving the point, that to make a female model doesn't require a serious change in model, just a minor one and maybe a slight different animation when idle and maybe walking (not running). A female model doesn't have to be "sexy" at all - just clearly more feminine than the male counterpart. And Reach shows, how you can do it without really spending much resources on an entirely new model.

ah, ignore me then :3

undeadsuitor:

PoweD:
I would like to point out another balance issue with models of both sexes.
Classes.
Now, imagine you are playing TF2 and you see a glimpse of a character model, as pointed out by valve in its commentary, character models in the game are modeled so you can instantly know the players class from its silhouette.Having female versions would screw that up completely.
Your mind is constantly trying to tie character models with classes.

Even if you pass that issue, society still thinks women are the weaker/more kind side of gender.Which would trick the player into thinking that the female models are non-hostiles.

Other than that, i completely agree.

The Class/Silhouette design mechanics really only work in cartoonish graphics though. Every class in a modern shooter is still shaped like a human covered in body armor. I doubt "slightly wider hips" or "slightly pronounced chest" (body armor is going to cover most of those things) are going to THROW EVERYONE OFF THE RAILS as much as you think.

And really? Having a female model would trick people into thinking they're non-hostile?

I......I..I don't even have a response to that. I really don't. At all.

It won't throw people "off the rails" but it might be a slight annoyance once you get used to seeing mostly males on the battlefield.

Did you even read what i wrote?
I said society forced us into thinking it, you know those countless TV-shows, movies or even video games that taught us that men are usually criminals, soldiers or just generally tough.
Women on the other hand are usually portrayed as somebody that is a love interest, damsel in distress or a innocent bystander.

It's a problem that has been created from the start of the industry, and yes, it is a problem we need to face, but it's not going to be simply inserting female models and expect everybody to get quickly used to it.

LadyRhian:

ex275w:
It really is a weird phenomenon, since I barely play any multi-player FPS's I hadn't heard about this issue. Still not putting any women is stupid in games that are supposed to have massive appeal or are in the future is plain lazy.

Yet I can think of a FPS that needs no female characters and that is Team Fortress 2, a game which still plenty of women play and has tons of yaoi for some reason. It would interesting to release a Team Fortress 2 esque FPS with only women in it and see how it goes.

Come on Jim, you shouldn't have thanked God this time, thank Mother Gea, when dressing a feminist womyn, you don't need to thank a phallocentric Male God, thank a female one, for Gea's sake.

They already have that. Final Combat. More of a rip-off than an actual game, it includes a schoolgirl Sniper. (Heave, gag)

Ok, I just saw the Chinese TF2 rip-off, it's pretty bad. Well the Sniper seems more like a Secretary/Policewoman/Schoolgirl mashup, but that's pretty terrible. I guess I meant they have to be well designed like normal Valve characters. The problem with the games that only or mostly have female characters is that they are all Kate Beaton's STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS played seriously. I guess Touhou is the only series with mostly female characters the doesn't pander to teens with sex and boobies.

Jim actually makes a pretty good-looking girl. The curly red hair and nice choice of a pastel green shirt to flatter his colouring - he is definitley a 'Spring'... blah blah blah, nice boobs.

... This is why I like ME3 multiplayer - that way I can play a woman and enjoy it. And why I feel more comfortable playing woman leaders in Civ, too. Same with Dragon Age. And why my current FF Tactics playthrough is a mostly female team. And why I like MMOs as well.

I find myself agreeing with Jim's views more and more these days - I guess he's really in touch with his feminine side. Or something.

Kitsune Hunter:
Good point Jim, but actually in Call of Duty, they do show women, well actually, a woman in CoD4 as she's hear in the mission, Charlie Don't Surf, then you have to rescue her from a downed helicopter in the mission, Shock and Awe

x <-- the point of this episode

.
.
.
.
.

over here is you --> x

See how far away you are from the point? One character who appears very briefly in the campaign has absolutely NOTHING to do with character models for multiplayer. Oi, pay attention next time!

LadyRhian:

ex275w:

Imp Emissary:

Snap

Snippity-snoop

Read it again. Both male and female were created in God's image.

Oh OK, perfect, then Jim thanking God in this episode works even as a smexy woman.

Hmm...You know what I find funny?

How can the original Unreal Tournament (made in 1999) not only have female characters, but females with military backstories, and even ENTIRE TEAMS with nothing but females on them...But more recent games don't have females in their multiplayer?

It's...weird. Very weird.

Hey that's weird for once we 100% agree Jim

Talvrae:
Hey that's weird for once we 100% agree Jim

I don't. At least not 100%. In games like Halo and it's ilk indeed there should be playable females, but not in modern settings ones. Not if they want to keep any pretense of realism.

As a man, even I would prefer more female characters in First and Third Person Shooters, for both campaign and multiplayer. For FPS's, Halo: Reach seems to be the most gender equal, while for TPS's, Mass Effect seems to be the most equal there, from what I can see at the very least.

Besides, I just find female protagonists in any media in the action genre more interesting than men. I mean, look at any movie, TV series, book, or game that deals with action, and who is the protagonist? More often than not, a big white guy who can generally force or talk his way through anything.

Lets face it: As an action protagonist, women are simply more interesting (At least to me), whether for the lack of testosterone, the rarity in the medium, or due to a different... Well, makeup in general to men. Men simply cannot have some of the same motivations as a woman can, and vice-versa.

"near future and science fiction shooters above all else" Ok so she's not playable, but Crysis 2, one of the highest ranking most badass military personnel and protagonists featured in the game is Tara Strickland.

RC1138:

-snip-

Those are all pretty valid points for our current world. Just as a personal example, a friend of mine recently trained to get ready to join the Army and I was actually surprised at the difference between male and female standards when she was talking to me about it. I was even surprised that she said she was having trouble with reaching them, as I've always thought of her as pretty strong to begin with (mind you, she ended up meeting the basic female standards for the end of boot camp before she even got there since she's not one to pass up a challenge).

But anecdotes aside, I'm curious about something. Since there've been a number of games that involve the US being invaded by "Evil Nation X", would women be given more options in terms of front line combat if such a scenario were to occur? I don't have any real knowledge about how the military works, but I'd assume they would, given that we'd want to have more people fighting the invaders in order to get them out sooner/more efficiently. But, numbers don't exactly win a war, either, as history as shown, so I don't know...

RC1138:
So in summation of that, not only can women not meet the "bare" minimum of standard physical requirements, there is in no way shape or form, that they could meet the physical requirements of a Special Operations troop.

Since you're using realism as the defense, tell me... what's your stance on regen health?

Thanks for those mental images, Jim.
Appreciate it.

As someone who uses either gender when the ability to do so appears, I can't say I feel it needs to change. But, if it makes contextual sense for a game to have female avatars as well as males (or even more so), then I think developers should stop being fucking lazy and add some females in too.

Jimothy Sterling:
The Jimquisition dons its armor ... as well as its lingerie ...

Point of order, Jimothy; why would crotchless knickers chafe your balls? Wouldn't they just be hanging out, swinging back and forth, roaming wild and free as the good Lord intended? This seems like a serious plot hole to me, which hints at a lack of attention to detail and I'm afraid I just can't take you as seriously as I used to.

OT: I don't really see what the big deal is. When games give me the option of choosing my gender, I go with whatever I feel like at the time. I played through DA:O & A with a vagina, but all three ME games with a penis. Skyrim, I did both, though I have to admit I drunkenly named my female Orc "Tits" in the hope that characters would send me messages using my name. Does it really matter that much to other blokes? I can see why it's an issue for women, sure - never having the choice must suck - but why is it so hard for dudes to play as a lady once in a while? It's not like it makes much difference to the game.

Kitsune Hunter:
Good point Jim, but actually in Call of Duty, they do show women, well actually, a woman in CoD4 as she's hear in the mission, Charlie Don't Surf, then you have to rescue her from a downed helicopter in the mission, Shock and Awe

Back in CoD 2, the bravest warrior of the Red Army is a woman.

Huh... interesting points. I hadn't played Colonial Marines and I'm shocked and saddened by the exclusion of Vasquez (don't see Ripley as a problem as she was a non combatant up until the last ten minutes or so of the film). No issue with adding female avatars to gaming, but I will be slightly perturbed when the sheer number of female avatars in shooters of the future leads me to wonder about the repressed sexuality of the many men who will doubtless be playing them.

Also, is it just me, or did Jim's breasts get smaller in this episode as compared to other episodes?

Medal of Honor: Underground - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor:_Underground

Something we haven't really seen since. A female protagonist in a WWII FPS, member of the French Resistance.

Unfortunately didn't do too well, I've read, due to the lateness in the console cycle it was released on, and some say the female protagonist.

We will have to wait awhile longer, it seems.

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