No Right Answer: Best Batman Villain Ever

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I love pretty much all the batman villains, and you guys had some great points in this episode, on both sides, but I still have to go with Mr. Freeze. Very tragic villain, even by Batman's standards, and I guess im just a hopeless romantic, or I'd probably pick someone else.

(Note: This is just my favorite major villain that most people know. My favorite is still Hush, because that shit was just intense. But he has had like, what? 2 stories?)

I still can't believe that Nolan chose Bain for the movie... You could have had Killer Croc play that part without having to change a single scene.

It would exlpain the wierd voice.

Talia Al-Ghul. She had a son with Batman, then sent that son to live with Batman to mess with him. You just know that the coup de grāce will be when she sues Bruce Wayne for back child-support.

thereverend7:
I love pretty much all the batman villains, and you guys had some great points in this episode, on both sides, but I still have to go with Mr. Freeze. Very tragic villain, even by Batman's standards, and I guess im just a hopeless romantic, or I'd probably pick someone else.

(Note: This is just my favorite major villain that most people know. My favorite is still Hush, because that shit was just intense. But he has had like, what? 2 stories?)

Mr freeze in the reboot sure as hell isn't tragic. Nora isn't even his wife. Just the first person cryo frozen and he's obsessed with her.

No love for Scarecrow? That's sad. Well, most of Batman villains are awesome in capable hands. With a good writer even Mad Hatter could become awesome villain. My personal Top3 for Batman villains are:
1. Joker
2. Ra's al Ghul
3. Scarecrow

It should be noted that with villains (and anti-heroes like Punisher or Wolverine) I don't really look at what was written about them. I look at the potential. Why? Because in universe style comics (ones where story doesn't end), certain characters won't ever realize their potential. Wolverine should kill at least half of the mutants by now, he is a little killing machine and it's only shown when he fights some mobs. Punisher should move to supernatural targets but with never ending story you can't kill some major villains (and when someone is killed, he gets resurrected, except for uncle Ben). Joker also hasn't reached his potential. The Killing Joke could've and should've been much more darker which could've and should've resulted in Gordon going bananas. But I'm getting off-topic...

Mojo_22:

Lear'sFool:
Richard Moll was The Riddler in the other stuff!

Win!

You mean Two Face, but yes it was Richard Moll. This guy wins the secret prize!

And Lex Luthor's dad from Smallville was the Riddler. Works for me!

Best Batman villain not in the movies yet that could be fun? Hmmm. Deadshot?

image

Nice to see at least one of you guys is going to be at the Escapist Expo. Curious as to why Kyle and/or Dan isn't going as well, but at least I'll meet one of you. I look forward to explaining in monotonous detail why Chris has been wrong in every debate he's been in so far. (Don't worry, that was a joke.)

As for the episode, I personally prefer the Riddler. He, to me, seems to be the more interesting and often more fun villain. Of course, I'm not a big bat-man person. I haven't read Hush or pretty much any comic with the Bat in it.

I would have to go with Scarecrow...... I mean he takes Batman's edge against his enemies, his ability to instill fear, and turns it back on him.

I do like the Riddler a lot because he uses his brains and is not insane. I would say Poison Ivy is my favorite because she is just purely obsessed with plants and Feminism.

As for 2 face he's just a guy that has 2 personalities that snapped due to the stress of his ideals of absolutes. kinda hits close to home to me honestly.

I personally don't like the Joker at all I really don't like the last guy who did the Joker in that movie. I really think if he lived he wouldn't have been nominated for the Oscar let a lone when it. I don't remember him every laughing and if I can't remember, it wasn't good.

I did look Dark Knight up and yeah the dead guy did laugh for a minute and a half over a 2 and a half movie.

And yes I'm aware that I'm an ass hole, prick and a doushe. Been told that enough times that I don't care. And I've had plenty of death threats to me for this opinion too.

doublenix:
Thank you for picking the Riddler as even an option. He is unfairly overlooked all the time. Remind me to get you guys some cookies if I ever see you.

"Thank you for picking the best possible option."

I'm extremely biased and have no data to back this up.

I just really like the Riddler. I wish he had been the villain for the final film.\

Brad Gardner:
I do like the Riddler a lot because he uses his brains and is not insane. I would say Poison Ivy is my favorite because she is just purely obsessed with plants and Feminism.

As for 2 face he's just a guy that has 2 personalities that snapped due to the stress of his ideals of absolutes. kinda hits close to home to me honestly.

He snapped because he was vane, he was vane because his pursuit of justice was driven by his own insecurities and self hatred.

Once his face was scarred the last thing that he had keeping him together was rent asunder.

Also the Joker performance would have won an award easily without him dying. I didn't even know he had died before I saw the movie.

Was it the joker that I like best? No, was it an amazing take on him that is easily #2 for me? Sure.

misterprickly:
I still can't believe that Nolan chose Bain for the movie... You could have had Killer Croc play that part without having to change a single scene.

It would exlpain the wierd voice.

Killer Croc might be the most uncomfortable Batman villain for me. Mostly because I don't want to be eaten.

If not him then the Mad Hatter, the comics that feature the Mad Hatter are real good at making me squirm. Not sure if any other major hero has a pedophile for an enemy but it isn't something I've googled to confirm.

Alaster Angelo:

Bane is one of the few Batman villains to ever defeat Batman physically as well as mentally, and he's one of the Bat's smartest opponents. He's not just another buff thug.

ahmigawd! Someone else who knows Bane's story! I like you. Here is an internet award.

It's invisible, but you won it.

Kapol:
Nice to see at least one of you guys is going to be at the Escapist Expo. Curious as to why Kyle and/or Dan isn't going as well, but at least I'll meet one of you. I look forward to explaining in monotonous detail why Chris has been wrong in every debate he's been in so far. (Don't worry, that was a joke.)

As for the episode, I personally prefer the Riddler. He, to me, seems to be the more interesting and often more fun villain. Of course, I'm not a big bat-man person. I haven't read Hush or pretty much any comic with the Bat in it.

Dan (me) has a one year old that gave him a a choice of driving 4 hours to be at PAX or fly half a day to go to the Expo. Kyle is getting married in October, and his funds go to that, rather than plane rides. Maybe next year we will all be there, but at the moment Chris is the only one with the availability and funds. I assure you we all want to go, and will put efforts into appearing next year, and possibly in Skype form this year.

doublenix:
Thank you for picking the Riddler as even an option. He is unfairly overlooked all the time. Remind me to get you guys some cookies if I ever see you.

Please come to PAX this year, we will be there and hungry for cookies!

Firefilm:
Dan (me) has a one year old that gave him a a choice of driving 4 hours to be at PAX or fly half a day to go to the Expo. Kyle is getting married in October, and his funds go to that, rather than plane rides. Maybe next year we will all be there, but at the moment Chris is the only one with the availability and funds. I assure you we all want to go, and will put efforts into appearing next year, and possibly in Skype form this year.

That makes sense. I was actually curious. But I hadn't considered the whole one year old aspect, and didn't realize Chris was getting married in October. Thanks for explaining.

No you are all wrong, the worst villian would be...
Joel Schumacher
image

Fighting over who is the best Batman villain is like asking "What's your favourite psychic disorder?". Also I use this chance to recomend the "Arkham Asylum" comic Book to everyone that is into Batman Villlains!

Obviously it is ... just gonna say killer croc....

Two-Face is my favorite Batman villain. Due in no small part to how great they made him in the Animated Series. They did such a great job taking their time and showing Harvey's mental demons. It was especially cool because of how long he was in the series just as Harvey Dent before "Big Bad Harv" ever reared his head... err, face... err, half face... you know what I mean.

Moll gave that character such life with his vocal inflections and some great character acting. Ever since his appearance in that old movie "House" (not the surly doctor show), I've been a big fan. And to this day he's the voice in my head when I read a Batman story featuring Harvey Two-Face.

Riddler is cool too of course. I'm actually a little shocked that Kyle won this one, but good on you sir. Kudos. :)

Thanks for spoiling HUSH.

I've read it, but my flat mate watching this with me hasn't yet.

Gotta say, if you throw Joker out of the mix because he's too much the obvious answer, out of all the Batman villians out there, I'd vote for Riddler as well. I like deep, convoluted plots and that's what Riddler specializes in. My favorite thing about him is that every time Batman gets out of one of his ultimate, seemingly impossible traps, Riddler always goes insane, demanding he be told how Batman did it, but he never gets his answer. :P

Kapol:

That makes sense. I was actually curious. But I hadn't considered the whole one year old aspect, and didn't realize Chris was getting married in October. Thanks for explaining.

Probably just a mistype, but Chris is already married. Kyle is getting married on October. ;)

Sharayah Pranger:

Kapol:

That makes sense. I was actually curious. But I hadn't considered the whole one year old aspect, and didn't realize Chris was getting married in October. Thanks for explaining.

Probably just a mistype, but Chris is already married. Kyle is getting married on October. ;)

Less of a mistype and more being a complete idiot. :p I'm awful with names in general. But yea. I meant Kyle. Didn't think that Chris was getting married again, and it would make less sense to mention it since Chris is actually going to the expo.

Two-Face? Really? He's just a mob-boss with a predilection for the number two. Joker and Ra's al Ghul are much better choices. Even Scarecrow would have been better.

Those two are the right choices, for once I don't have to correct anyone!
The choice from there is a matter of personal preference.

I preferred the Dark Knight's two-face... it never really seemed to be a guy who had developed a split personality. He just seemed like a guy who had lost everything, and was angry about it, and the coin thing was just sort of a method for him to feel in control of his rage - the whole point of his character arc was that batman, in his eyes, flipped a coin, and he "won", and the woman he'd grown to love "lost". So it's just a way of absolving him from the bad actions that his unbridled rage at his situation makes him want to do.

I think Harvey Dent always had that streak in him, he's just always had a reason to fight his battles a little less directly, using the law instead of a gun. But once the accident happens, he's lost that outlet. The Joker sits down with him and says "You can kill me if you want, but if you really think about it, the batman caused all of this, if he didn't exist, I wouldn't have tried to taunt him using your life, so if you're going to blame me, at least also blame the bat." And Dent's slightly warped view sees that that's the truth - he always didn't care for the batman. He used him as a tool, but he hated that he existed. Once the batman had the nerve to spare him instead of rachel, he decided, screw batman.

Of course, all of this isn't really hidden - the movie pretty much says all of this stuff directly, but it's a different take on Two-face compared to other incarnations of him. You never get a sense that the good Harvey Dent is actually still in there in the Dark Knight. At least I didn't. Harvey Dent IS Two-face, and Two-Face IS Harvey Dent, there's no line in their character in The Dark Knight.

Just going to also mention that I actually liked Tommy Lee Jones's Two-Face, although it was admittedly very very very silly, and didn't give the gravitas the role benefited from in Aaron Eckart's hands. I don't think Joel Schumaker or Tommy Lee Jones had ever actually read up on the character, because he had none of the story elements that make Two-face interesting. I like to look at the Schumaker films through the lens of the 60s tv show, just because it's the only way it makes sense. If you do that, they're not quite as bad.

As for The Riddler, I love the Riddler. I prefer him to Two-Face (and actually prefer him to The Joker). The Riddler has always been fairly consistent, although I do have to say one thing about him. I much prefer him in his three-piece suit. I'm sure we all do, but sometimes, they still put him in that giant onesie, that was never very good. In Batman Forever, they put him in it more then anything else, and Jim Carrey's package kept me from fully engrossing myself in that movie. His first scene as The Riddler where he goes to try and entice Two-face to his side, he was looking pretty awesome, then it got worse.

I find The Riddler's character is very interesting, but I doubt I can say more then these guys did. It's also interesting to note that the Riddler is one of the few villains that in many canons knows who Batman is, but he understands that it doesn't matter who batman is. He doesn't want to defeat Batman, or kill him (generally), he just wants to best him Mentally. His ultimate goal is to have Batman concede that he's won. That he can't figure it out. Everything else is secondary to that. Like the Joker, it's all a game to the Riddler. And he wants to beat Batman at that game. If he wanted to get rich, both the Joker and the Riddler are both smart enough to get as rich as they want, but what they really want is to beat the Batman. I just don't read "beat and kill" in the Riddler. He's slightly less psychotic then the Joker, who's ultimate victory would include Batman's death.

ravenshrike:
Raz, The Penguin, and Bane are all better Batman villains than Two-Face or The Riddler.

I agree with you about Ra's al Ghul and Bane, but I'd like to hear your explanations for all three anyway, if you don't mind.

I vote riddler but even still I think a better choice would of been hugo strange or like some have mentioned Mr. Freeze

Danm. Should have logged in earlier on the Two-Face = Richard Mol thing.

It's hard for me to go with Riddler. He's had good stories and the games used him well, but so much of me still sees what I first saw: a hood pathilogically compelled to tellt he truth in some fashion due to repeated beatings as a child for lying. Hence riddles to say "I'm robbing the bank" without directly saying "I'm robbng the bank".

Sadly, most Batman villans have to be graded on the corny cruve. Even Joker's had more exploding rubber chickens than he's had "Killing Jokes" or "Death in the Families". Ra's Al Guhl has a league of assasians and semingly unlmiited funds but can't beat a guy in a funny costume. Bane might be more respectable if he a) didn't let the rest of Batman's rogues gallery wear him down before breaking his back, and b) even put up a decent showing in any subsequant remach. Hugo Strange is often forgotten. Catwoman? Next. Two Face might win by default just for the personal touch, but even that wears away with time.

I'd go so far to say Batman's his own worst enemy. It was him arrogantly trying to handle Bane's released villans alone tha wore him down in Knigtfall enabling Bane to break his back, and his antipersonal paranoia has at best driven wedges between him and his partners and at worst, taken down the Justice League (Tower of Babil) and threatened the world (Brother Eye in Infinite Crisis).

Scarecrow. Loved his cameo in Dark Knight Rises.

I don't know about the dark knight, I felt that it was a terrible batman movie, but, the villain's made up for it and made the movie amazing. I am pretty upset that they killed off Aaron Eckhart, who I believe is an amazing actor.

As far as no "real" villains to choose from... really? No Ra's Al Ghul?

Qitz:
I say Mr.Freeze.

Why? Because Mr.Freeze is doing it all for his Terminally Ill Wife, Nora. Which, while it may not fight Batmans brain as much as Riddler does, does test his Morality. The only reason he's fighting him is because of HOW he's going about it.

I mean really, what's harder for Batman to do? Slap some guy whose leaving mind teases around Gotham or take down a Scientist whose only doing this because HE'S TRYING TO SAVE HIS WIFE!

Batman does not have any moral conundrum when it comes to this because motivation does not matter to him. Both the Joker and Freeze are threats because they use harmful methods to attain their goals.

In the reboot universe, he stopped being sympathetic and was given a psychotic makeover.

I think Catwoman is a good villain, perhaps not the best but still good

Having not seen it yet, I don't know if the Riddler is in Dark Knight Rises (and supreme hell fire and suffering to anyone who spoils that twist for me if he is), but if he isn't I will be supremely disappointed.

Sure the Joker is probably Batman's arch-nemesis, but the Riddler could have been sooooooo good in Nolan's universe. As opposed to the Joker's up front confrontation of Batman, the Joker could have literally left Batman's psyche in tatters, ripping up every relationship he had left through misdirection. Nolan could have spent the time going full-Inception with Bruce Wayne.

But here's the problem for the Riddler in Batman comics. Batman is defined by his enemies. Not the other way around. There just isn't enough character for The Riddler to play with... and since the Riddler is equally defined by how well he manipulates his foes, he comes off as mediocre.

You have two characters waiting to act as counter to the other, and so we're left with stasis. Really, the Riddler should have his own comic book to explore the kind of man who tests his powers of manipulation, but I guess there is already a guy like that with a different name.

Scarecrow anyone? He was just plain awesome in Arkham City.

clearly bane is the greatest batman villan. hes a four eyed fire breathing monster meant to be a great propaganda social commentary in this years election.

Firefilm:

doublenix:
Thank you for picking the Riddler as even an option. He is unfairly overlooked all the time. Remind me to get you guys some cookies if I ever see you.

Please come to PAX this year, we will be there and hungry for cookies!

If my wife wasn't about to bring another minion... uh, I mean baby... into the world right about the same time as PAX, I would. However, I must warn you, the cookies may have certain special properties. I cannot be held responsible for mass consumption of Bugles or Fritos after enjoying cookie magic.

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