Jimquisition: Booth Babes

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 NEXT
 

Well as a bi man, I wouldn't be offended by the presence of male models. Having said that, the booths should attract attention on the merits of the games not the half-naked people milling around them.

T3hSource:

Dascylus:
snip

Sure,but now were talking about representation of a product,rather than "sex sells".I see your point and I'm sure no one would have a problem with having this,but then again I'm sure that's how the booth babe gig started in the first place.Ugh...I guess it just ends up on what the employer requires of their representattives.

You're right..

Cross fingers and hope for change then.
I wonder if there is a future for booth-hunks?

Thank god for booth babies.

themilo504:
I'm firmly anti booth babe on the basic that if they're pretty woman willing to do that kind of job they can easily find another job.
Plus speaking as a asexual person I just hate thing like booth babes especially when connected with video games.

"Easily find another job". Easily? The way the World is right now, you're sounding very optimistic. especially when the job requirements of a booth babe begins and ends with "looking pretty"; it's not the most transferable skill set, unless you restrict your job search to more modelling (which is tough enough to get gigs in as it is) or bar work.

It won't eliminate jobs. Models will model elsewhere. Booth Babes come from model agencies. It isn' tlike they're full time with specific companies.

The same is true for car shows, gun shows, and the like.

TwiZtah:
I don't care, I'm just sick and tired of all these gender "issues" popping up fucking everywhere. Chill the fuck down, not everything has to be taken so goddamn seriously.

People wanting to be able to their jobs is something to take seriously. This is as much a problem for men as it is for women. I know plenty of men who would rather not have to deal with booth babes simply because they're distracting. It's a half naked woman, so naturally they want to look, but then they feel bad for looking, but then they feel bad they feel bad....and all of that gets in the way of them just trying to do their job.

Also, the way some people behave towards booth babes is just plain disgusting. I've seen men (not journalists, I do want to point out), treating these women like they're at the show to provide sexual favors. I personally don't give a damn if a show has spokesmodels or not, but I shouldn't have to deal with a guy trying to stick his hand down someone's booty shorts while I'm trying to do an interview nearby. That stuff happens because some people simply cannot be trusted to behave professionally.

maninahat:

"Easily find another job". Easily? The way the World is right now, you're sounding very optimistic. especially when the job requirements of a booth babe begins and ends with "looking pretty"; it's not the most transferable skill set, unless you restrict your job search to more modelling (which is tough enough to get gigs in as it is) or bar work.

Booth Babes come from modelling agencies hired by ad and PR firms. They work many different shows. So they don't get called for one show, they get called to the next. Like pretty much all models that are getting started. Further, these models also tend to do this for secondary and not primary income, until they get contracts on a regular basis. Like most freelancers.

I used to work in entertainment and auditioned these men and women. It's tough out there, but it won't put them out of work.

Fuck that. The booth babes absolutely must stay.

However, I also demand stand studs. I want my conventions to smell thickly of both high quality estrogen and testosterone. Conventions as is smell entirely too thickly of the wrong kinds of dude nectar. Let's make them smell like the right kinds.

Finally! The first time I've found anything related to the women in binders meme funny. Sometimes I think the only thing that draws Democrats together is a mutual hatred of Republicans (not to imply the same isn't the case about Republicans).

Booth babes and the internet. Now that the internet is going through its knee-jerk 'feminism' phase, I'm glad that Jim's on the side of being reasonable just so that he doesn't get shouted down because of the sheer number of penises he has (I'ma guess at least six). Beyond anything else, let's avoid repressive dress codes as the cure to the booth babes issue. The western world is enough like Victorian bloody England already.

When will people learn, sex sells, but it only sells itself. Dress the girls, you can use their natural charm without disrobing them.

maybe dress up all the hot women in fursuits so no one can complain about sexy booth babes??

Susan Arendt:

TwiZtah:
I don't care, I'm just sick and tired of all these gender "issues" popping up fucking everywhere. Chill the fuck down, not everything has to be taken so goddamn seriously.

People wanting to be able to their jobs is something to take seriously. This is as much a problem for men as it is for women. I know plenty of men who would rather not have to deal with booth babes simply because they're distracting. It's a half naked woman, so naturally they want to look, but then they feel bad for looking, but then they feel bad they feel bad....and all of that gets in the way of them just trying to do their job.

Also, the way some people behave towards booth babes is just plain disgusting. I've seen men (not journalists, I do want to point out), treating these women like they're at the show to provide sexual favors. I personally don't give a damn if a show has spokesmodels or not, but I shouldn't have to deal with a guy trying to stick his hand down someone's booty shorts while I'm trying to do an interview nearby. That stuff happens because some people simply cannot be trusted to behave professionally.

That some men can't hold their hands in place is a whole other discussion. What I wanted to say is that I'm tired of all the threads and all the videos about gender issues now, eveything is taken so damn seriously all the time, no humor anywhere. And also all the white knights who pretend to care about women, while they actually don't at all.

Booth babes are just the gaming industries variant on "sex sells". That is to say having booth babes is just an extension of having gorgeous women and stud muffins in adverts and films.

Having an issue purely with booth babes is a little narrow-sited in my opinion because the debate here is not about having the women standing around (doing what is essentially just another modelling job) but rather that in everything sex is used to sell something or sex is used to attract your attention. In every facet of life.

hmm i agree with jim to a degree,

for example i agree that they shouldn't get rid of booth babes because it makes a party feel uncomfortable. now before you blow they " oh mah gawd sexist" whistle hear me out here, i am a black/Arabic guy, when i was born i was immediately cast out of the country i grew up in ( the us of a)media opinion of sexy , just saying there are alot of people minorities being payed to be sexy here , im not going to go into a full thing on how mass media has white washed beauty but you get my drift. and i am assuming that if your and a minority, like my sister and my mom and a few of my friends, it has to be worse, this thought of the whiter you look the better you look.

to connect that back to something jim said about how this makes the women comfortable, that's reasonable correct. but dont you think that i as a black/Arabic guy is rarely seen as attractive in my media, or have the be whiter to be attractive. i don't believe this notion, but i have had a lot of "i dont date black guys, because [ insert media stereotype of forced conception of beauty here] " talks, but the fact that the notion is still prevalent is uncomfortable rather than a lack of self esteem, saying that , the conclusion that the some people are making is that all banned, that would be like me wanted all attractive whit people to not be in media, why would i put that many people out of work, and what would i gain from it.

this is where i agree with jim, its not fair to them, and to add if you wish to do that with a gaming convention , i kinda think you should do it with every form of media. i listen to rap and rock, do you think that every hot chick on of those videos made someone uncomfortable, of course, you dont think when some dudes girlfriend is going on about how hot edward cullen actor is makes him uncomfortable( i pray i dont have to deal with that, for a fear to have to rant to my lady friend about how sh*ty those movies are) of course they do, but at some point you have to grow some self esteem and think of yourself in a better light rather than making everything that makes you feel ugly go away.

and yes i know some people may have some deep rooted trauma related to this, i have some mental scars issues and disorders myself, child abuse and some other bad stuff will do that to you , and while i am the first one for helping the crap out of those in pain, this is one of those sh** out of luck times. i don't like child abuse jokes for aforementioned reason and rape jokes for another (not what you think ), but they still exist and will exist because people find those funny for some reason.

i also understand that a convention has to be inclusive , more attendance and all that, reasonable.and i know my spheal was long, but i want to get across that if you want to get rid of booth babes, your going to have to come up with a better reason than " they make feel uncomfortable" because the media has been using sex to sell for a long, long tome. your talking about the media who said eventually went f*** it to trying to reserve itself when advertising the twilight "movies" to young teenage girls and just had vampires screwing in the trailers, this is the media that says if you are white or male your mostly likely not going to be the main character, this is the media that, while enjoy kingdom hearts games, namura seems to be the most able person as square at the moment, keeps implying that riku likes to rest his genitals in sora's bum, "cuz fan girls buy stuff". this is the media that let dead or alive not sell it self for being a really damn good fighting game, or it has a bunch of awesome ninja's in it and the 5 one has virtua fighter characters in it, but because it has boobs.

if you wanna get rid of booth babes, even though i dont like ladies out of jobs, fine. if you can sell it to me, just make sure your reason is better than "they make me uncomfortable, or they make me feel less attractive"

fore warning , my tone is one of disdain or bitterness, but relaxed and just trying to present a point, willing to accept counter points, it seems i type meaner than my demeanor

heh rhyme

Clearly, the solution is to have some emo, twilight looking guys standing around too. JRPG's are full of them, invent Stall Studs and you're golden.

I'm not convinced by the 'save their jobs' argument. A good economy strives to maximise what we get while minimising the work we must do to get it. Protecting jobs regardless of what the workers actually achieve is the opposite, it is madness.

Ladies who work hard but make a questionable and arguably negative contribution to an event, are a good example of people who should be doing something else.

If you're there for the cake you'll probably miss the frosting if they take it away.

I think there should be Booth Men.
I just want to watch a ton of the super "No-homo, bro" guys get really uncomfortable.

Captcha: No-brainer
Thanks annoying anti-spam thing for supporting my idea.

I don't go to these events (hope to do so at some point), so it doesn't personally bother me whether or not they'll keep the booth babes.
However, I have to admit that the reasoning behind getting rid of them just seems intolerant. Women in skimpy clothes and heavy makeup make you feel uncomfortable, so they shouldn't be allowed to be brought in? That seems insecure and immature to me.

The point about adding to actual entertaiment value instead of sexual appeal of hired model in skimpy clothes is great, however the one about woman loosing jobs that are basicly about them look pretty in skimpy clothes Im not sure of.

brazuca:
These are the same moralist who wants to banmy right to fap. Search pink cross for example. I hate this discussion. Booth babes exist in lot of other industries why this bothers the gaming industry so much?!

The gaming Community as a whole are morons. This all started from the Hitman trailer. It was so damn stupid that I think most thought it was another game till they were told it was a Hitman trailer. So the discussion was mostly this is a stupid trailer, that didn't sell its product well. Then someone called it sexist, then you got this thought process;
"Wait this is sexist?"
"I didn't think it was sexist."
"If someone thinks it was sexist and I didn't then..."
DAMAGE CONTROL!!! Which we have been stuck in since, that fucking trailer, added with Tomb Raider and the whole she might have gotten rape if she didn't put a bullet in the guy head. Then everything blew up with that chick that decided to spam her kickstarter on 4chan, and got a backlash for it though in her case that what she wanted. Then we have since been trying to rid of anything that can be perceived sexist so that our image won't be ruin and we be mainstream now, or be considered an art medium or some other bullshit that we are currently on.

The irony in this is that it's not about sexism, never been about sexism, it's about the gamer image, and protecting it from anything unsavory. Which just means that we are mainstream, and this is part of the course,as every other medium has faced this before. Which also made me realize how stupid the community was, as at first I thought there head was stuck up their asses with their 90's mentality, but now I realize the community is just dumb. They think someone is going to take their games away, and it is just around the fucking corner so we be vigilant, and strike down any thing that might tarnish our image.

Lyri:

Care to elaborate on your first point because I'm not sure they're mutually exclusive as you're making it sound?

I'm not sure proposing something between "ban booth babes" and "they're fine as is" is portraying anything as mutually exclusive.

Sure you can have them dress in a different way but they're just female representatives of gaming companies and may as well be a pretty lady holding a clipboard in a turtle neck sweater.

And I'm not sure where the problem is there, either. However, at that point, you're still going to extremes.

He didn't regard the moving of them or asking them to point clothes on as dehumanising but embarrassing for them, he likened that to the way people speak about them as if we have a right to choose if they like their chosen job or not.

But that's still the same sort of external treatment. In fact, in Eurogamer's case, the one led directly to the other.

In a way it's no different to how people think of strippers or porn stars because of the fact they exist "they're damaging the status quo of women", yet a lot of porn actresses and strippers like their jobs.

I'm just going to point out that a lot of slaves were happy.

Moving on, it is pretty different from how people think of strippers, at least inasmuch as how the actual dialogue about these scenarios has gone. Most of the talk has been about proper attire in public expos where children and families go and about conduct in private forums.

Molly McHugh: "I'm not sure if it's degrading so much as it is uncomfortable and confusing."

Regarding CES in Nevada this year. I think it sums up a lot of the issues brought up. People making this about "objectification" are largely missing the point here. The backlash came at the thought of banning booth babes for conduct issues in many cases, not because of a backlash that they existed.

Eurogamer, specifically, breaks down to a case of "this is why we can't have nice things." No pun intended.

The way people talk about booth babes is that we know whats best for them and that they're incapable of making their own decisions as a grown adult, obviously a woman can't like wearing skimpy clothes, being surrounded by virgin males in a room for a few days.
That is the dehumanizing part.

I honestly don't care if they can handle it. I don't think it's proper to be doing this within the context that people have been doing it. The only legit concern I can see is that of employment and even then, you hardly see people complaining that there's no market for lamplighters and telegraph operators. Does anyone really lament when other jobs are reduced solely because they are not necessary, appropriate, or useful? Does anyone really care that email has virtually eliminated the need for copy boys?

Also:

being surrounded by virgin males in a room for a few days.

Not sure if serious. Part of the problem here is that gaming is no longer just for basement dwelling virgins in the first place.

I mean, Whats the difference?

Depends. Are these people hired by the party planner, or are they hired by a third party, while the people behind the party are against it (or even have an existing policy about it)?

Here's a secret. I don't care what people do at home. I like porn. I watch a lot of porn. Porn porn porn. I love boobies. Boobies and vagina. Hell, I like penis, too. Ask my girlfriend, she'll back me up on that. There's no secret here; even most of my rl friends know this, because while I don't go around screaming I LOVE TITTIES!!!!!! I don't hide it, either.

But there is a difference between what you do at your own party and what you do at someone else's. And there is an issue of knowing the outcome.

If the companies that set the precedent at Eurogamer want to throw their own con, they can. With blackjack. And hookers. But they did it at Eurogamer. And you'll probably see more of this as more women enter gaming. There is a certain level of discomfort.

And it also fosters some pretty crude behaviour from the audience. Those "virgins" have been known to bother girls who are attendees, costumed or not. But hey, we wouldn't want to stop pandering to that demographic just because they're troublemakers, would we?

Finally, since 'm talking about discomfort, I'm just going to say that Jim is REALLY addressing the wrong crowd if he's looking for empathy for anyone involved. Booth babes, convention goers, anyone.

Susan Arendt:
Also, the way some people behave towards booth babes is just plain disgusting. I've seen men (not journalists, I do want to point out), treating these women like they're at the show to provide sexual favors. I personally don't give a damn if a show has spokesmodels or not, but I shouldn't have to deal with a guy trying to stick his hand down someone's booty shorts while I'm trying to do an interview nearby. That stuff happens because some people simply cannot be trusted to behave professionally.

Hm. Might I offer my services? My body can kill libido at 100 paces. Plenty of room to conduct interviews without inappropriate, distracting behaviour going on.

but jokes aside, I do have a serious question: how is security and safety handled at these cons? I have read a bit about groping and the like, and I keep thinking "don't they have security?"

I mean, shouldn't a dude groping a spokesmodel (or really, anyone) be dealt with?

Judging by the number of stories recently I've heard of sexual harassment at comic cons, I'm guessing they're not handled very well (if at all), but I've been to a total of one convention in my life.

Being English, I rarely find the need to say much to Jim's video content. For this one though I have to reply and I'm fairly sure most escapist won't know where the hell I'm coming from, but this reply is just to Jim.

I think it's incredibly unfair to blanket ban booth babes because of their apparent beauty. Just because I might like to look at something it doesn't mean I want to take it home, however any woman just standing around looks daft to me no matter what they're wearing; if you're going to have a booth babe she should be "in character."

Rewind to the mid nineties - Lara Croft. Now Lara Croft was an interesting character; an intelligent, strong, independent, charismatic young woman... in the games at least. Portrayed by various models over the years, none of whom captured the essence of what Lara Croft was about, only the look. When I think of Lara Croft the first thing that comes to mind is she's supposed to be intelligent - her looks and cup size is way down the list.

For me at least, if you are going to have a booth babe it's fine as long as she can play the role. The lass who did Lollipop Chainsaw this year was brilliant - that wasn't her fault though because she was in character as the game defined and she played the part very well imo. If anything is to blame it's Lollipop Chainsaw the game, yet we've seen from the example of Lara Croft just how wrong marketing folks can get things and we only take notice when they get things right - they got it so right with Lollipop Chainsaw that I think that most other booth babes look even more shallow than they normally would.

Aristotle said: "To be angry is easy. To be angry with the right person, at the right time, about the right thing, and in the right amount, that is the challenge." Personally, I think this is the wrong time to be mad about this issue.

I'd be grateful if you told Holmes he has sheeps teeth. Being an Englishman I've got to end with an insult haven't I?

jmarquiso:
It won't eliminate jobs. Models will model elsewhere. Booth Babes come from model agencies. It isn' tlike they're full time with specific companies.

The same is true for car shows, gun shows, and the like.

On the other hand, the same arguments against booth babes in game conventions would apply to them in car shows, gun shows and almost anything else. While eliminating them in this one industry shouldn't have any noticeable impact taking the arguments against them to their logical conclusion certainly would.

It's the same argument that says my vote doesn't matter when clearly voting in general does.

Personally I hate any booth where I am talked to by a paid corporate shrill, who just taken a week training to tell me all about Product X and how its the best thing since sliced bread. I was at EuroGamer Expo at Earls Court this yeah and I had a blast chatting to people manning the booths. Unfortunately not one of them had anything to do with the glut of M rated AAA blockbuster on show. There I did not meet a single person who seemed genuinely excited about their game, because it wasn't their game, they just worked for publisher X. I spoke to one young lad at a booth and he was doing the booth stuff for free. The local college had said it look good on a C.V. Quite frankly that was exploitive, 4 hard days and just your grub paid for.

If you want good interactions and want to speak to real developer and people with true passion for games, your best bet to find them in the indie section or small/unknown developers, basically the people who can't afford to hire booth babes.

But what it really boils down to, if you just spent x million dollars on a project the measly few dollars in comparison to pay people to glorify your product above your competitions is worth it.

Advertisement is design to push every base instinct in every human being in the aid to selling products. Every time I see a booth babe, or an Apple employee Hi-Five a customer, or listen to carefully crafted description of a new game. I sigh, and a little bit of me dies. Tired of the relentless and ineffectual onslaught of corporate hype.

Eh...I don't really like booth babes. It's people hiring girls and saying "stand here in a two piece and look pretty". Not very feminist. And no it's not like cosplaying, I'm pretty sure people don't cosplay to show off their bodies, they're not on a payroll, and they're just doing it for fun. Besides, there's a noticeable difference.
image

This is a cosplayer, not a booth babe. This is perfectly fine.

If they want to give me basiclly naked beautiful booth men with their package outlined and very prominent (as girls' bits are)... they can keep the booth babes. I just wat to be able to look at a booth dude and see how well built/endowed he is and have him act all happy to see me like the girls do. THEN I'll be happy. Let's start treating the men like sex objects when it comes to cons and expos, and all is good with me.

... ... I'm serious here. I want a guy in a speedo and a little vest strutting around a booth handing out flyers or posing suggestively with a gun or sword.

I really, really am serious. Because booth babes and the degenrating of women at these events won't go away, so let's start treating men like meat, too.

... I'd also really like to see that, too. I mean, boobs are nice, yeah... bust give me a nice, muscley back and shoulders to stare at, too. And whatever the man equivilent of camel toes are so later when I get home I know exactly what to picture.

Edit: Work keyboard is dying, don't mind the typos.

I like it when Jim doesn't have a right or wrong answer, because it shows that some issues are more complex then most people seem to think it is, and most of them just act without thinking. I do feel a little awkward when I'm near someone in skanty clothes, but I don't want to get rid of them if they don't have a problem with it, and they're getting paid to do it. I think people who AREN'T getting paid to do it should have some decency, sure, but still, not on anyone's side here.

So now they have problems with booth babes in gaming conventions. What about every car expo-race, or even cheerleaders on basketball, NFL and so on. (At least the first they are just standing there and not teasing)

To me it's like looking those woman as prostitutes if you criticize the practice like that.

We leave in 2012, some has to grow up and start to deal with the real problems of our world out there, or at least if they only care about the the gaming industry, do fight for better games, better journalism, critics of games without the influence of the publisher etc. Booth babes...Pfff.

I've really never been to the kind of convention that would have "booth babes", so I don't feel I'm entirely qualified to comment on their effect on people viewing them. My default stance has generally been, however, that someone- even a lot of someones- finding something offensive is not sufficient reason for that thing to cease to exist. I agree with those who've said some minimal nods to relevance to the game and not actually setting out to offend for the sake of publicity would, at the very least, be a good idea.

I know it's a little outside the purview of the show, Jim, but maybe you could see if you can find someone who's done work in the field and interview them? Given the conclusions (or lack thereof) of the episode, it would seem like such insights could be enlightening.

Magenera:

DAMAGE CONTROL!!! Which we have been stuck in since, that fucking trailer, added with Tomb Raider and the whole she might have gotten rape if she didn't put a bullet in the guy head. Then everything blew up with that chick that decided to spam her kickstarter on 4chan, and got a backlash for it though in her case that what she wanted. Then we have since been trying to rid of anything that can be perceived sexist so that our image won't be ruin and we be mainstream now, or be considered an art medium or some other bullshit that we are currently on.

The irony in this is that it's not about sexism, never been about sexism, it's about the gamer image, and protecting it from anything unsavory. Which just means that we are mainstream, and this is part of the course,as every other medium has faced this before. Which also made me realize how stupid the community was, as at first I thought there head was stuck up their asses with their 90's mentality, but now I realize the community is just dumb. They think someone is going to take their games away, and it is just around the fucking corner so we be vigilant, and strike down any thing that might tarnish our image.

Hey, you know I don't really mind if you wish to streamline or omit any context or relevant details that are inconvenient, but as you're strawmanning the whole conversation, at least don't call the gaming community idiots for taking issue with things that you have left out partially or wholly in the process.

IndomitableSam:
If they want to give me basiclly naked beautiful booth men with their package outlined and very prominent (as girls' bits are)... they can keep the booth babes. I just wat to be able to look at a booth dude and see how well built/endowed he is and have him act all happy to see me like the girls do. THEN I'll be happy. Let's start treating the men like sex objects when it comes to cons and expos, and all is good with me.

... ... I'm serious here. I want a guy in a speedo and a little vest strutting around a booth handing out flyers or posing suggestively with a gun or sword.

I really, really am serious. Because booth babes and the degenrating of women at these events won't go away, so let's start treating men like meat, too.

... I'd also really like to see that, too. I mean, boobs are nice, yeah... bust give me a nice, muscley back and shoulders to stare at, too. And whatever the man equivilent of camel toes are so later when I get home I know exactly what to picture.

Edit: Work keyboard is dying, don't mind the typos.

Serious or not, I'm not sure that would fix the problem here.

panosbouk:
So now they have problems with booth babes in gaming conventions. What about every car expo-race, or even cheerleaders on basketball, NFL and so on. (At least the first they are just standing there and not teasing)

Who is teasing, again?

And really, is it wrong that the fandom with the larger female demographic take issue with booth babes than the ones with fare fewer women as fans?

I mean, it's sort of the difference between someone complaining you got meat in their hamburger and someone complaining you got meat in their tofu.

I say how bout dis. I'm surprised to not hear jim mention this. You wanna keep Booth babes? Bring in the booth dudes. In speedos and all that. Even it out. In fact for every Booth babe presented a booth dudes gotta be there too. Hell hire me. I'll make a DmC model you'll never see coming and I guarantee that shit will be uncomfortable for evabadie.

Very interesting; another high calibre Sterling episode for my Binder Full of Jim Sterling's. I never did consider the more human side of booth babes, probably because they are rarely treated as such, though admittedly getting rid of them would surely do more good than harm--I often change the television channel when watching E3 coverage whenever they film the booth babes because, well, it is just awkward and uncomfortable to look at. And, like Jimothy said, getting rid of that cop-out entertainment would only make the event more interesting.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here