Jimquisition: New Generation, Old Bullsh*t

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT
 

In response to the summary of this video: YES!!! A THOUSAND TIMES YES!!!

I swear, between mediocre releases, the homogenization of all gaming genres, unfriendly DLC practices, and the state of games journalism, I am amazed I still game as much as I do.

Then again, as much as I tout being a hardcore gamer, I may be relegated to "casual" status considering time spent playing nowadays. I only play a couple of "high profile hits" a year, and spend the rest of the time with redux/classic gaming.

Still, here's hoping the industry pulls its head out of its butt and actually starts developing with more intelligence.

Cripes, I sound naive, but there hasn't been a deluge of decent RPG's since PS2...

EDIT: new IP's shouldn't have to be blockbusters to turn a profit; it's just that marketing is so bloated, you end up having situations where games "can't fail" if they want to get the green light. EG: Dead Space 3 needing to sell more units than its predecessors combined to "break even." And even if we follow this theory, which I don't ascribe to, aren't the CoD's supposed to support the "Art" games?

When they inovate and make some good games, they don't sell. Look at Mirror's Edge.

Though I think you're late, last generation was already stagnating, they had new IP's but not new ideas. Except Portal, Portal rocks.

el_kabong:

Cecilthedarkknight_234:

purifico:
WHAT?! Do you truly mean to say that I won't be able to play the PSN games I've already bought on PS4? I can understand it not being able to play physical copies, but digital as well? WHAT THE FUCK, SONY?! Have some fucking respect for you loyal customers, you fucking assholes.

Sony being loyal to it's customers??? Pftt are you kidding me still I'll give this console a chance in a couple of years when the work the problems.

Crono1973:
I am curious why people think PSN games should work on the PS4 but not physical games, they both use the cell.

It's not the cell that would be the main problem it's the root key/encryption key that is being completely changed. If i recall there was certain leak a few years back that opened the ps3 up for homebrew/modding and ability to play back-ups. Sony could not change this in the ps3 or psp/vita because it would render all previous software useless much like they are doing with the ps4.

I seem to remember them saying in the conference or in the after-interviews that there are legitimate coding reasons that makes it impossible to just drag and drop PS3 games into the PS4, which couldn't come without building in an emulator (which would increase development costs) or changing the original code structure (which will take time). As far as the information I've seen, unless the game devs made the effort to re-code to the new console, the games formerly on the PSN would be unavailable on the PS4. I don't think it's worth getting upset for until they start selling the same thing we've already purchased. If that game isn't for sale at all through this medium, it's an unfortunate miss for library transfer, but not something that's inherently greedy/short-sighted.

OT: I don't get the hate that comes across for the PS4. While people's concerns or expectations can always be discussed, the pure amount of "WORST EVAR" discussions are shameful to the gaming community and shows exactly why developers do what they do. In Jim's video, he talks about how it's more of the same from the game's industry (pre-hype, announcement announcements, etc.) However, these practices aren't around because company's love spending time/energy/resources to give you vague information.

The fact is that teaser trailers, pre-release hype, and the early dispersal of information are eaten up by the consumer. These marketing tactics are employed across the corporate landscape. Why? The internet. The biggest hurdle businesses face is getting their name out there. How can a consumer shop at your store or pay for your products when they don't know you exist? Even when speaking about a console in a negative light, you serve to spread awareness of the PS4's existence and features. By not revealing details in full, Sony has ensured that the internet machine will be abuzz with discussion on its device. People's overwhelming desire to speculate, quantify, and share their opinions is doing all their marketing for them at very little cost.

This internet machine not only helps to build awareness, but also serves to push product. Generally speaking in regards to how our psyches work, the more people are exposed to something, the more favorably they will perceive it. In psychology, this is known as the mere-exposure effect. This is not without it's potential downfalls for a company, as they do run the risk of over-exposure. But, despite the fact that we're all talking about it, Sony doesn't seem to be PUSHING marketing on me (at least not yet, in comparison to movie companies). I watched the conference because I was interested, not because they took out ad-space prior to my favorite video series to berate me about the PS4.

Also, providing an extremely antagonizing opinion allows an avenue for the people who viewed the product as moderate or favorable to dissent to your opinion. At the end of the day, polarization can be a solid business move. 10 consumers who are completely committed to your brand (fan boys, as the gaming community would call them) are arguably more valuable than 20 people who aren't. Look at Apple. You can't tell me that they don't survive/thrive with their fan-boys. My roommate will literally buy whatever gadget comes out with Apple's logo on it (whether or not he needs it or if there are better devices out there). It's not limited to physical product, either. Fox News is another example. They've polarized their audience against any other sources of information, thus holding a monopoly on a core audience's ad revenue power.

Do you demand that companies start giving you more information that's concrete over what we get now? Stop being that kind of consumer. Stop letting it work for them. Nobody's forcing you to watch the conference. Nobody's forcing you to post the 900th message to the forums on the subject. Most importantly, nobody's forcing you to buy the thing. Why do you hate something that, unless you decide to buy it, has absolutely NO IMPACT on your life? When you do these things as a consumer, you only serve to feed the beast.

/micdrop

Well that could be the reason as well but I really do think the fully leak of the zero encryption key and root key is one of reasons why Sony is changing their format. I do agree the platform needs easier access to make games for "this is what killed the Saturn outside of japan after all", however you still would think they would invest in some kind of emulator to play older games. Speaking of which whatever happened to the ps2 emulator that Sony patented back in 09 for all ps3 systems?

http://www.siliconera.com/2009/06/29/sony-patents-emotion-engine-emulation-technology-for-cell-processors/

Anoni Mus:
When they inovate and make some good games, they don't sell. Look at Mirror's Edge.

Though I think you're late, last generation was already stagnating, they had new IP's but not new ideas. Except Portal, Portal rocks.

The gaming industry is becoming like most other media outlets now. They don't want to take to many risk and only pander to the majority that helps make them profit. Why do you think we get so many squeals, spin-off's or reboots instead of new ip's?? It's a huge risk to push a new IP in this day and age when you can guarantee that a final fantasy or call of duty game will sell at least million copies.

That emulator is used but it's really buggy. I tried to play some games and some worked, some didn't and some worked with issues. My best bug was teleport in Black . You and enemies would, on some levels, randomly teleport for some 10 meters in random direcion. Makes game so unpredictable :D

Jimothy Sterling:
New Generation, Old Bullsh*t

The PlayStation 4 was announced last week, but Sterling wasn't quite feeling the buzz.

Watch Video

I still believe that we will see more "new" at E3. New IPs, new games, new ideas. This was basically just a showcase of what the PS4 has in its guts and what they wish to accomplish with this generation.

Zeles:
Wait wait wait wait wait...

A new Infamous? Really? The second one had such a great conclusion! Unless Cole isn't the protagonist this time, I don't think this is going to work out too well.

From what it seems: New Guy. Second Son with explosive(?) abilities.

Kumagawa Misogi:

purifico:
WHAT?! Do you truly mean to say that I won't be able to play the PSN games I've already bought on PS4? I can understand it not being able to play physical copies, but digital as well? WHAT THE FUCK, SONY?! Have some fucking respect for you loyal customers, you fucking assholes.

The PS3 PSN games are coded to run on PS3 hardware not PS4 so the only way to get PS3 games to run on the PS4 is to port everygame first! there is no other way apart from streaming like how onlive works.

Now, maybe you'd want to do some research first - a software virtualization layer or a compatibility layer is exactly what you're saying is impossible to do. Furthermore, it can't be impossible to begin with, since the PS4 can already stream older titles and if you think they've set up a rows and rows of Playstations to do that, you're mistaken - they must use some sort of virtualization to provide the service. They've got a big beefy machine that runs games as separate instances and sends out the data over the Internet.

Kumagawa Misogi:
It's the exact same thing Apple did when the mac's went from POWER (Cell is a POWER based CPU) to x86 and they told there customers if they wanted new software they needed a nex $1000+ Mac.

That's Apple being Apple, though. Also, if I recall correctly they already have a virtualization layer built into OS X (maybe newer versions after they've moved on x86) that handles older applications.

l3o2828:
Wait, am i reading this wrong or on the video it says GARME JOURNALIZM isnstead of GAME?

It alyas said GARME. Dunno, why, though - I figured it was some reference or joke I wasn't into (maybe something Destructoid related?) but didn't really go out of my way to look into it. If you figure something out or if anybody else has an idea, can you share?

What has to happen to stop the madness? Does the industry have to crash again?

There's a topic I'd like to see addressed: This whole "pre-order this game to get this feature" thing, and then you get it if you buy the game new anyway. Saw this with Rage, Spec Ops, Black Ops 2, Crysis 3...

Thank god I finally invested in a PC.
And, THANK. GOD. FOR JIM!

Someone actually threatened you over David Cage comments?

Damn I thought even Cage fans realized that he was just full of crazy bullshit, that's why a lot of people like his work even, certainly why I do.

To be fair I think he meant getting over the uncanny valley I regards to graphics

Yeah... no. I saw a Sony that was learning from their previous screw ups.

You thought you had something profound to say, but all I heard was a load of pretentious paranoia.
Jim, I am disappointed. Escapist, I am disappointed.

Thank god... for TotalBiscuit.

Someone who is actually level headed, and doesn't take his anger over Aliens: Colonial Marines out on everything else.

No backwards compatibility with PS3 games? Fuck you, Sony. Why do have to be this way? I guess that's slightly better than them deciding to be pricks and taking it out halfway, which then leads to about ten different models of the same fucking system, confusing customers as to which has the ability to play PS2 games. That's not such a huge deal, I just don't understand WHY the new systems can't play old games.

Also, I'm tired of social media bullshit being forced on me when I'm playing a game. It's bad enough that when I log in to play Metal Gear Rising, I get about seven requests to play Halo; I don't need people asking me to take over their avatar to get them past certain spots or whatever. All of the things you can do are impressive, I just don't care.

In fact, demanding that I play online, always connected all the time, is actually like asking me to be anti-social. I like to play games with my friends in the same room. Not from my house to theirs. I just... I miss the days when you would go out and purchase a new game no one else has, take that game to a friend's house, and then invite more people over so you could all stay up all night having fun.

But Sony doesn't want that anymore, nor for that matter does any other publisher. This industry would rather us all be physically isolated, because how else are they supposed to sell extra copies? Those friends I mentioned should have copies of their own if they want to play it (pre-ordered months/years in advanced, of course), then they need to input an online pass for it to work online, and they better not have traded in games to get it, because fuck you, video games are a luxury and if they're too expensive for you to get without contributing to the used game market, well then you need to just not buy it. You aren't the kind of customer they want.

I'm just so tired of an industry that demands all of those things from it's customers and then still shits on them. I'm even more tired of those very customers (whose ears are getting pissed into without the industry even having the decency to try and convince them that it's raining) defending and supporting what goes on, because fuck you, companies exist to make money.

Sheo_Dagana:
No backwards compatibility with PS3 games? Fuck you, Sony. Why do have to be this way? I guess that's slightly better than them deciding to be pricks and taking it out halfway, which then leads to about ten different models of the same fucking system, confusing customers as to which has the ability to play PS2 games. That's not such a huge deal, I just don't understand WHY the new systems can't play old games.

It's because the new PS4 has a different type of CPU than the PS3. That means that coding games is very different so games need to be translated somehow to work.

They have 3 options.

1) Hardware emulation, where they put a PS3 processor in the PS4 which will probably make the PS4 significantly more expensive.

2) Software emulation, where they make an emulator program and then work to make games compatible, which will probably give huge developer costs and result in buggy or no emulation for games that weren't that popular. I'm not even sure the ps4 can do ps3 software emulation at all.

3) no emulation, and save themselves money so they can get a profit on the PS4 sooner.

Sony isn't exactly in the best spot right now financially and the backwards compatibility was a huge reason why early PS3's were so expensive and didn't sell that well (along with using an unconventional processor that no developer wanted to code for). I can see why they'd be more careful with their money.

I've said this before elsewhere, but I can't jump on the backwards compatibility wagon with everyone else. The problem with trying to make backwards compatibility possible with the PS3 is that the only feasible option would be to include a hardware solution. That did not work well at all with the PS3 launch since it jacked up the cost of the ps3 to well over the budget of most ps2 owners, and it would be the same issue with the ps4. If they tried going the software route, the games would run way too slow to be enjoyable unless it's ps2 or older, in which case just putting PCSX2 on the console would suffice.

As for this episode of the Jimquisition, I think he is pretty spot on with the state of the gaming industry. I looked back at the previous launch titles and the ones coming out with the PS4 are as generic as can be. The console itself is actually a pretty good piece of hardware and I'm glad they are moving away from IBM's cell architecture. That being said, this is largely meaningless to most consumers since the average person is mostly concerned if the console runs and has games worth playing: The point Jim was making in his video.

tehwalrus:
Assuming the Xbox 3 announcement event ends up like the PS4 one, I feel like these anti-consumer policies are forcing me onto the PC platform. I don't want a media box, I don't want social integration, I don't want kinect or move or waggle remotes - I want to play games without a hastle, and between the beginning of last generation and now there's been a complete 180 on which platforms make you go through a hassle.

So much this. My Girlfriend will so kill me because we so don't have any space in our one bedroom apartment for a gaming PC.. but like fuck facebook on my console.

Xbox live are really me off with their bullshit and I was seriously thinking to switch over to Sony this generation but now?

I really don't know....

I'm not a Valve junkie but..Steambox?

I don't think Sony is the one to blame for the lack of a fresh approach, as Jim put it. Sony is first and foremost a hardware manufacturer, so naturally you will see an emphasis on hardware in their own event. What did you expect, a launch lineup composed entirely of new IP's? As romantic as that sounds, it's a scenario that probably belongs in a parallel universe.

Don't give up hope. New ideas will come, and new IP's will be developed, as they always have. Their "birth" is just usually a bit... temperamental. It requires a certain amount of faith (or madness if you prefer) on behalf of publishers to greenlight something new and targetted at a "core" demographic, while fully backing it up. It's rare, but it still happens. The most recent example of that would be Dishonored, a game that can surely be considered a niche title, compared to what sells these days, backed up by a shit ton of marketing. They gambled, and from what I know, it paid off. There's more where that came from, as long as we, the consumers, continue to support new games that are actually good.

Well Jim, if that guy does come 'round to "fuck you up" make sure you lift his drivers license and then you can post up his address. We'll get a small group together, say 100 or so and picket his house for a week.

It's true. All of it. They shouldn't go into a new generation without something actually new on offer. I just think they felt they needed to do this prior to E3 since MS is planning a big E3 reveal. It was just not a good show. They talked about features that a lot of people don't care about. I'll say this though, the social features are probably not for us. ENB (Epic Name Bro) did a youtube video about the features. As it turns out, social features that show actualy people with actual names is pretty damn new to Japan. It was a cultural taboo for a while. He thinks the social features are aimed towards the Japanese audience, who are behind on social networking, so to speak. Interesting stuff.

Anoni Mus:
When they inovate and make some good games, they don't sell. Look at Mirror's Edge.

2 million copies isn't "selling"?

If that's the case, maybe the games industry should invest in technology to reduce development costs instead of increasing game appeal.

Is it just me or do i notice Jim becoming more and more cynical about this Stuff? Its just like his Love for this Medium has been ckoked to death by the cold hands, nay, tentacles of the industry.

He's right of course, the Industry is on its way to a new Crash and i'm at a point where i'd welcome it.

As of now, i can honestly the entire Industry is at fault; Certain Companies pushing me into a direction where i suspect some attempt to wring more money out of me behind every new Idea (and being right most of the time) and then there are the few nice People who honestly want to sell me their work which they did with love for the medium.
To those (both of you!) i say: Leave the Industry, come back later when at least some of those Companies that would twist any new Idea of yours into a new money grabbing scheme have died.
As of now, any love brought into the medium will merely prolong the existence of those who would steal it and twist it.

DVS BSTrD:
This ain't a new generation, justa facelift.

So just like every other generation.

Jimothy Sterling:
New Generation, Old Bullsh*t

The PlayStation 4 was announced last week, but Sterling wasn't quite feeling the buzz.

Watch Video

Perfectly said how I was feeling, there was just so much more excitement and wonder around the release of the 360, PS3, and Wii, but the WiiU, and PS4 so far have just been meh

Little Gray:

DVS BSTrD:
This ain't a new generation, justa facelift.

So just like every other generation.

I'd say it's more just like the current generation. I just finished watching the video, and my impression was while the big guys have found a whole lot of new types of bullshit to dump on us, what Jim's saying here is pretty much the exact impression I got going into the PS3/360 generation. Same basic games, better graphics. And this was not the case with previous generation jumps. From 8-bit to 16-bit to CD to DVD, each time a new console came out new types of games and genres came with it (a new controller as well for that matter).

My basic guidelines for to measure a new generation of games on is "could you have made this next gen game for a last gen console with lesser graphics". Because of this I was never impressed with the PS3/360, and it looks like things aren't going to be much better for the PS4/whatever.

One more thing to illustrate this, just look at The Elder Scroll series. Look at the jump we got from Daggerfall to Morrowind. Then look at the complete sidestep from Morrowind to Oblivion. With mods you can now bring the PC version of Morrowind's graphics up to par with Oblivion, and you have something that may as well have been made on the same console.

So ya not really excited about it but guess something good might come of it.

Man Jim is getting cynical lately...seems like a bit of his Aliens angst is seeping through.

Although...despite the fact I dont really care about consoles or this new generation, the introduction of new features into the PS4 like the social aspects do interest me. Seeing those appear will be fun to watch, since if they do become actually popular, they may be included in Steam which I do use.

I'll just say that, if Sony wanted to sell me on a PS4, they did a very bad job.

Then again, the lack OF a PS4 at a PS4 reveal didn't help matters any.

DTWolfwood:
when the COD franchise stops breaking sales records year after year, I think the games industry can manage a new golden age for gaming.

To have 2007 all over again ^^

Who keeps buying them? I remember the original Modern Warfare being good, a mate of mine was playing it constantly around 2008. However after that, it all got a bit samey. Just what kinds of people do these games cater to and why are there so many of them?

With regards to consoles, I've just never cared for:-
a) the initial price - considering what they are and what they can do
b) the very limited amount of games available to each particular platform. Though I understand the motives behind the licensing system form a marketing viewpoint, it still comes across as pretty obnoxious. Case in point, 'Journey'. Having that as a PS3 exclusive when it could have sold better on PC just infuriates.
c) the rigidity and inflexibility of the technology. This ties in with point b), but is expanded when you consider 'backwards compatibility'. Someone earlier brilliantly pointed out the kind of firestorm that would erupt in the PC world were Steam to inflict similar restrictions and limitations. A PC (or laptop) is a PC is a PC. I'm using an HP now, but I used to have an Acer. The only thing that limits you is internal specs.
I understand perfectly well that consoles are designed for games and games alone. Thus, in theory, they will be effective and efficient in a way that PC's can't hope to emulate. Yet, this advantage, time and time again has been thrown away by bad marketing, sloppy design, and just a little too much hubris.

purifico:
WHAT?! Do you truly mean to say that I won't be able to play the PSN games I've already bought on PS4? I can understand it not being able to play physical copies, but digital as well? WHAT THE FUCK, SONY?! Have some fucking respect for you loyal customers, you fucking assholes.

Apologies but im going to call this rote bullshit right now.

Lets start with a little lessons in what kinds of processor we've used.
PS1 mbit
PS2 mbit
PS3 POWER
PS4 X86

Now what can you see?

Correct! the PS1 and PS2 use the same processor architecture allowing for backward compatibility. The PS3 (60gb release model) had a PS2 mbit chip installed to allow backward compatibility through hardware emulation and well... look how much that cost.

Next. Do games on disks and downloaded games get programmed differently?
Thought so. They do not. Ergo the PS4 cannot run PS3 games from the PSN without either software or hardware emulation. Software emulation is glitchy at best and im not sure an X86 could even emulate a POWER processor as one is Lttle Endian and one is Big Endian. So the PS4 needs a POWER architecture processor like CELL to be able to run ANYTHING from the PS3.

Well unless they reprogram everything made for the PS3 to be compatible with the new architecture.

I'm flabbergasted by how dumb people can be I really am. For example, Jim why the flying dickbats would you say 'Oh disk backward compatibility I understand but locking people out of downloadable games is wrong' When you obviously lack any basic understanding of computer hardware and programming.

I'l spell it out for you if that'l help.

PEOPLE DON'T PROGRAM DIGITAL DOWNLOADS AND DISK GAMES SEPARATELY THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE METHOD OF STORAGE!

Ive been a fan of your show through every episode until now but please don't talk about hardware again because it makes me want to cut open my chest and eat my insides with a lump of granite.

Wow for once I agree with Jim %100

TheLastFeeder:
Get me a version of Greenlight for the PS4 and I just might get one, It's the stagnation of AAA games that is mostly turning me off the gen consoles.

instead you can play many titles such as "indie retro throwback" or "indie artsy wankfest"

I am interested in the PS4 console but I agree with Jim on this one. Everything in the announcement meant to build hype felt shallow, empty, and meaningless. I would've been more impressed if Sony showed the PS4 playing a PS3 game than showing off eye candy that discerning gamers are quickly becoming distrustful of.

As a note Jim. Attacking people you disagree with as "Mental Subnormals" is a vile and fallacious argument which undermines your entire episode in the eyes of ANYONE with any knowledge of rhetoric, logic and argumentation.

But since as I pointed out above you know nothing about how hardware works and yet still make dumb statements about backward compatibility I think you will probably ignore me and sink further into the mire of dumb bile that Colonial Marines seems to have dragged you into.

Although I agree with you on the subject of David Cage and the guy who threatened you was a dullard and a fool.

The most shocking part of that whole video? That someone out there isn't aware how full of shit David Cage is, and defended him. Fahrenheit was an alright game, Heavy Rain was overhyped shit, and Beyond: Two Souls looks to be relying heavily on the involvement of Ellen Page. You may not agree with me on these, but one thing remains constant: David Cage is a lying windbag.

Jennacide:
The most shocking part of that whole video? That someone out there isn't aware how full of shit David Cage is, and defended him. Fahrenheit was an alright game, Heavy Rain was overhyped shit, and Beyond: Two Souls looks to be relying heavily on the involvement of Ellen Page. You may not agree with me on these, but one thing remains constant: David Cage is a lying windbag.

I'm sure the guy genuinely wants to make great narrative games, but wanting it and doing it are unfortunately two very different things. And some game developers, like David Cage, need to stop confusing what's in their head to what's actually on screen.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here