Escapist Podcast: Bonus: The BioShock Infinite Podcat!

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I think the Racism came from just the time period and Americas views at that time (see Shamus's articles) and keeping Elizabeth locked up, I can only assume she would be easier to mold into the person he wants her to be if she doesn't get exposed to alternative view points (as a lot of her the history about her and Lady Comstock was kept out of her knowledge, so they were filtering her knowledge). You only have to see any Fundamentalists websites and the like and how they go on about how the internet is a gateway drug to "the Devil" (yet they don't catch the irony).

And one of my most favorites song inclusions was hearing 'Fortunate Son' through one of the tears and then hear a girl singing it when you go through the tears.

MDSnowman:
I think the gear is randomized

I just did some checking online and it seems that you might be right. The gear locations are fixed but what gear you get seems to be random. That kinda stinks in my opinion.

The reason for Comstock turning racist was never explicitly given anywhere in any of my playthroughs. So unless the few voxophones I am missing fill in those gaps I think that it's just going to be something the player has to figure out for themselves. And whenever you do this, it leaves room for players to have different interpretations.

The way I saw things is that maybe the baptism didn't immediately make him get over his past at Wounded Knee. He couldn't forget and didn't feel that baptism was enough to for him to be absolved. But if he could somehow view his past differently so that his actions were no longer a bad thing, maybe that would allow him to move on with his life. So, the racism that existed in Baptist religion at the time allowed him to change the outlook he had of his actions at Wounded Knee from being a bad thing to being a good thing.

i really enjoyed the game as a whole myself. however i do agree with susan a bit that somethings weren't fully explained but at the same time i think that can be said to play into you being booker and you not fully grasping all of this time and multiple realities stuff and just how random it could be, especially if there are infanite dimensions and elizabeth cant pick where to go untill her powers are unlocked.

that being said it does bring up my one problem with the ending, "smothering comstock in the crib" if theres supposed to be so many difrent worlds, what about the ones where comstock could be a good guy. they killed them off too basically by ending that choice. if elizabeth could see all the dimensions shouldnt she have been able to see them as well. that could potentially play into some dlc or a sequel.

Also, i would LOVE some dlc that takes place in rapture. like they land there but suddenly elizabeths powers are locked again and it turns out theres a syphon somehow in rapture

Wait, Podcat?

image

Am I missing something here? Has it always been "Podcat" or is it just an adorable typo?

DLC
what are they gonna do with it, if its not more Elizabeth and and the Lutece twins I doubt id be interested.
But Elizabeth either now has the power of gods or was never separated from Dewit, Dewit is dead or now happly living with Anna, and with the Elizabeth matter resolved the Luteces are now content to wander the multiverse

MisterShine:
Mmmmmm.. special podcats. My favorite. I think you guys work best when you have a topic you're trying to stick to (keyword on trying, I suppose). I miss game of thronescast..

edit: About the "Where did the racism come from..."
The main group who do the whole Baptism as adults thing are the, surprise surprise, Baptists. And, Southern Baptists were racist as shit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention#Divisions_over_slavery

I'm guessing that's where they pulled that inspiration from, with Baptism and its moral implications (Some sins can't be forgiven.. , followed by Comstock's madness) being such a main focus.

Also, it's not exactly uncommon, both in fiction and in actual history, for people who have committed atrocities, helped to commit atrocities, or simply stood by and done nothing while atrocities happened, to try and deal with what happened by justifying it to themselves.

While, symbolically, Booker may have been "reborn" as Comstock after the baptism, that doesn't mean the guilt over the things he did went away. Quite the opposite in fact. The guilt is repressed, and the longer it stays repressed the more it festers, until the only way his mind can deal with it is to twist his own perceptions of what happened in a way that paints him as a hero, rather than a monster. There are many different ways PTSD can manifest, and self-denial is certainly one of them.

Andy of Comix Inc:
Wait, Podcat?

image

Am I missing something here? Has it always been "Podcat" or is it just an adorable typo?

It's been a running joke with the main escapist Podca(s)t for a loooong time now. And it is adorable.

On Infinite: To me the story all seems to fit together perfectly, Comstock isn't as racist as he seems in my opinion. The audiolog about getting minority labourers and demonizing them to make the upper classes of Columbia feel justified suggests that is was, partly at least, an act.

Also, the log where the (I totally can't remember his name) guy who Comstock hires to hunt Daisy talks about killing an interracial couple and Comstock was unable to respond. As if he was feeling bad about what he was doing.

And I didn't find the ghost fights hard at all, I used Bucking bronco as crowd control and blasted the boss down ASAP, with the storm gear for when I needed to thin out the crowds a bit.

5 of 5?! Really? Sorry, I cant take such reviewer seriously.

dharmaBum0:
So the stealth section isn't spelled out with big letters and short words (but that's being nice; it actually is spelled out, in big letters and short words. And a picture). But if you don't get the idea after the first encounter then that's not the game's fault.

But it's not even necessary - it's a trivially easy section without stealth. The enemies are all slow and melee-only. There's plenty enough health/ammo/salts in the area to clear them all out.

Don't even have to clear them. You can just run straight through to the next area, triggering every alarm along the way. In the end, all the enemies despawn.

Worked on Hard, still waiting to see if it works on 1989.

AJey:
5 of 5?! Really? Sorry, I cant take such reviewer seriously.

Go take a look at their review ratings article. "5 out of 5" can mean anything from 81% to 100%.

To this day I still think Songbird was another version of Booker. The Songbird is, after all, the avatar version of Rapture's "big daddies". And it makes sense on how Booker, Comstock, and Songbird want to take Elizabeth away.

Songbird being half machine is fueled on just pure fatherly instinct on wanting to protect Elizabeth. And his relationship with her is similar to a daughter and actual father. She admired him and loved his company when she was young. But now that she's older and wants more freedom, Songbird becomes overly protective does everything in its power to keep her in the tower.

The fact that Songbird's downfall was also being "drowned" is a big giveaway. All versions of Booker are killed by water.

EDIT: also just not to double post... My thought process of asylum section, in my first go around, was running into the silent boy and thinking "Wah ok this thing alerts the others" I was already low on ammo/salt and unprepared, so I die. Next I tried to stealth kill the silent boy but instead it screams in my face again. It was then I figured out he was invulnerable, and proceeded to stealth past all the other silent boys.

Regarding the racism, I'm sure a lot of people have said similar things by now, but I'm to lazy to read it all, so I'm just gonna eay in my two cents.
I felt it was really clear, but as an outsider looking at America, I have this view on a lot of American culture, so I jumped to this conclusion easily( NOTE: not specific Americans, a lot of you are ery nice)
When Booker accept the baptism, he's supposed to be washed clean of his sins, that's not how human psyche works, so he does not forgive himself his sins, he justifies them. So to accept that he killed all those people, he adopts the pro-american propaganda doctrine, making his actions just. So while he says he's washed clean of his sins, what he actually does is denies they ever were sins.

Xelien:
To this day I still think Songbird was another version of Booker. The Songbird is, after all, the avatar version of Rapture's "big daddies". And it makes sense on how Booker, Comstock, and Songbird want to take Elizabeth away.

Songbird being half machine is fueled on just pure fatherly instinct on wanting to protect Elizabeth. And his relationship with her is similar to a daughter and actual father. She admired him and loved his company when she was young. But now that she's older and wants more freedom, Songbird becomes overly protective does everything in its power to keep her in the tower.

The fact that Songbird's downfall was also being "drowned" is a big giveaway. All versions of Booker are killed by water.

EDIT: also just not to double post... My thought process of asylum section, in my first go around, was running into the silent boy and thinking "Wah ok this thing alerts the others" I was already low on ammo/salt and unprepared, so I die. Next I tried to stealth kill the silent boy but instead it screams in my face again. It was then I figured out he was invulnerable, and proceeded to stealth past all the other silent boys.

And that's why I hate numerical representation in reviews. When something as basic and mathematically fundamental as 5 out of 5 becomes ambiguous, there is no need to use a broken system like that.

AJey:

Xelien:
To this day I still think Songbird was another version of Booker. The Songbird is, after all, the avatar version of Rapture's "big daddies". And it makes sense on how Booker, Comstock, and Songbird want to take Elizabeth away.

Songbird being half machine is fueled on just pure fatherly instinct on wanting to protect Elizabeth. And his relationship with her is similar to a daughter and actual father. She admired him and loved his company when she was young. But now that she's older and wants more freedom, Songbird becomes overly protective does everything in its power to keep her in the tower.

The fact that Songbird's downfall was also being "drowned" is a big giveaway. All versions of Booker are killed by water.

EDIT: also just not to double post... My thought process of asylum section, in my first go around, was running into the silent boy and thinking "Wah ok this thing alerts the others" I was already low on ammo/salt and unprepared, so I die. Next I tried to stealth kill the silent boy but instead it screams in my face again. It was then I figured out he was invulnerable, and proceeded to stealth past all the other silent boys.

And that's why I hate numerical representation in reviews. When something as basic and mathematically fundamental as 5 out of 5 becomes ambiguous, there is no need to use a broken system like that.

They feel they need to give it some kind of number, and the reviewer gave his opinion. You are supposed to read more than the number as that does not tell you everything, hell it hardly tells you anything, you need to then read the review to see where the number came from. The number is a summarization, in case the written or spoken review was not clear enough.

Stop being so spastic over something arbitrary.

I was slightly surprised at how much frustration Susan brought to the podcat. Of course, and without putting words in her mouth, the frustrations seemed to be more with how close the game came to doing certain good things without actually doing them, rather than because it was bad.

I thought the racism was his way of dealing withhis guilt by being proud of what he did.

Or maby Booker actually is a racist, is he ever verified as not being one?

It's never said straight up, but there are racists and then there are racists. He may not like the idea of an interracial marriage, whilst still not being a fan of lynchings.

I would be interested in an analysis of the race relations and the vox populi from someone with a background in such things. Every bit of the discussion I've seen on this aspect of Bioshock is being had by White people. That's not particularly a BAD thing, just limiting in something so complex as race relations and it's history in America.

So it was a stealth level. And here I thought I'm just doing something wrong, that I can't kill those guys. :-D Thanks, next time around I will know, what to do. Who would have thought, that trying to kill something would be a bad approach in this kind of game, hell I thought it was mercy killing, they didn't look very happy. :-)

My personal take on Comstock's racism is because of Fink. One of the Voxaphones mentions that Comstock is reliant on Fink for his success and its implied that Fink only achieved his success based on the exploitation of other races. My opinion is that Comstock just didn't care as long as he got results.

Despite what was mentioned I still don't see why as Comstock he decides to secede, authorize massacres and eventually fulfill the prophecy, unless it's supposed to be some commentary on fatalism.

P.S. I personally loved the Comstock House level because that brought back the creepy feeling from the original Bioshock. Have to admit, though, that the Boys of Silence were not a problem because of Murder of Crows and the equipment that regains you Salts.

This game caused me to invent a new term. Quantum Fuckery: the result of people messing around with the Wibbly Wobbly Timey Whiney stuff in such a way that you are acutely aware of the fact that you are in way over your head.

as far as Comstock's racist attitudes, Booker himself showed a certain acceptance of the racial status quo, explaining to Elizabeth "that is just the way things are." Comstock however would have rejected "the way things are" as part of his psychological shift post baptisim, and insited that it was the way things needed to be.

About the racism, Comstock as a prophet and a bit older man probably saw at least one wave of KKK (be it in the future or in the past), so it's not like racism wasn't a big deal in that period of time. Secondly extremely extreme patriotism would actualy probably be against interracial couples and imigrants, since you know, they steal jobs from patriots and destroy the good american gene pool. (please don't think I'm trying to be racist, just making a point) Thirdly Comstock saw himself as a hero (that's why hall of heroes), so after his baptism he must have accepted his monstrosities at Wounded Knee, which were somewhat racilly motivated. So personaly I think, that his racism is somewhat plausible.

Regarding the sudden ramping up in violence on the part of the Vox Populi after stepping through that tear, could it be a result of the fact that Booker was a leader and a martyr to them in that specific iteration?

As mentioned in the podcast, Booker is not a nice dude, and it seems as though he's never a met a problem he couldn't solve by murdering it. That the Vox would take cues from him once he demonstrated how effective brutality is, isn't all that surprising. Did anyone in the game talk about scalping other than Booker/Comstock? Yet during the Vox rebellion, there's a board with the scalps of the Founders pinned up for all to see. Which isn't to say that Fitzroy doesn't have her own violent streak. There's a few voxophones where she compares herself to a fire, ravaging through Columbia.

"When you forced deep underground, well-- you see things from the bottom up. And down at the bottom of the city, I saw a fire burning. A fire's got heat aplenty, but it ain't got no mouth. Daisy...now, she got herself a mouth big enough for all the fires in Columbia.

"You ever see a forest at the beginning of a fire? Before the first flame, you see them possums and squirrels, running through the trees. They know what's coming. But the fat bears with their bellies full a' honey, well -- you can't hardly wake them up from their comfortable hibernation. We're going to Emporia. And then, we gon' see what it takes to rouse them from their slumber."

It's interesting that Fitzroy is Infinite's parallel to Atlas/Fontaine. Both begin the revolution that leads to the downfall of their respective cities. Both are originally presented as allies, promising escape in exchange for assistance. Both betray the protagonist and are further corrupted by their success. Fitzroy ends up stabbed to death by Elizabeth, while Atlas is swarmed by little sisters repeatedly stabbing him with their syringes.

On the racism thing, I understood it like this. Firstly, Comstock believes in God and believes God has granted him special prophetic powers. He beleives God has granted him this, because DeWitt was baptised following a massive bout of guilt due to his incredibly racist actions at Wounded Knee. Therefore, the act that brought DeWitt to God and the path of righteousness must also be righteous. Sort of an ends justifying the means situation. The fact he is a prophet clearly makes him righteous in his own mind, there for the act that saw him become a prophet must also therefore be righteous.

With Susan's complaint on Comstock becoming a tyrant after taking the holy path:
1) One of the main underlying themes of the game is that absolute power corrupts, demonstrated by Fitzroy when the revolution becomes fully blown and the people are more willing to follow her.
2) I found that the baptism taken by Dewitt shows him how easily the slate can be wiped clean (yes also delivering a very anti Christian message) so Comstock may see his necessary evil of oppression and destroying New York as nothing because everything can be forgiven so easily.

Also the podcast didn't at all touch the fact that Comstock wanted to harness Elizabeth's powers and infuse them into him, which then in-turn other than giving him immense power would also make him no longer a Profit but God in the eyes of his people.

Comstock's story kinda reminds me of Cecil Rhodes. He started out working on a cotton farm in South Africa, drawing the ire of his white peers for socializing with his black workers and showing them trust by paying them in advance.

Then he had a mild heart attack, went on an 8-month trek across the veldt and came back with the conviction that blacks were children who should be used as an on-tap work force and nothing else. He even got the Cape Republic to repeal the franchise for the few blacks that had it, and later founded the country of Rhodesia, a byword for racism.

Rhodesia was created in what had been Matabeleland, which he had first cheated the inhabitants out of, and then massacred them with Maxim machineguns.

i believe that the racism was originally created because when they created Columbia they sold it as this new Eden a perfect world, and who's vision of a perfect world involves them doing menial labor. so none of the citizens were willing to do these jobs that totally needed doing so to solve this one of the audio logs was of a character telling comstock Ive got a solution to your labor issue, slaves enjoy. now when it starts to become over the top is most people can't treat another human being like that without some sort of justification so either you admit to yourself they are human and need to be treated as such or you justify it as they are somehow less then human.

as for the hard time you guys had with the ghost and silent guy fights devils kiss mad both of those easy just put the trap right at the ghost feet and it will normally kill all the people she spawns and damage her too.and spam it at the other fght with the Regan gear equipped and it will go by pretty smoothly at least that's what i did.

Great podcast, really enjoyed it. One thing which may or may not be significant. I chose not to draw on the ticket teller, which resulted in Booker getting stabbed in the hand. Through out the game Booker has a bandage round his hand, however at the end during the drowning(which is when I noticed it) there is no bandage and his hand is all healed up. Different Booker or something the developers just missed?

In the same floating house where you get the voxophone that explains the music it also quotes:"...if he has half the genius of the biologist I now observe...", as a reference to either Suchong or Tenebaum from Bioshock 1 as an explanation towards the creation of Vigors!

After playing the second half of the game last night (in which I got as impatient as Booker, which was the first time I really sympathized with him), I thought that him drowning at the end actually led to him being "born again" by resurrection as Comstock. Now, I hear that he absolutely died there, which affects all of the Comstock universes, but how does that not affect the indebted Booker universes like the one in the post-credits? Is there an explanation to how his death in one universe carried on to multiple universes but not all?

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