Zero Punctuation: Webcomics

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that was my fav zp yet!

EDIT:the only webcomic I read and enjoyed was concerned.Oh and XKDC but thats not gaming.

David_Cat:

Hypersapien:
I am a fan of CAD and I thought the digs at it were funny.

Anyone else think that Buckley is going to retaliate in his comic? I sure hope so.

*grabs popcorn*

I doubt it. Tim is too mature

http://dramapatrol.blogspot.com/2007/07/profile-tim-buckley.html
http://dramapatrol.blogspot.com/2007/08/filler-more-buckley.html
http://www.blanklabelcomics.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=1366

So yeah, Buckley is an egotistical, untalented, selfish hateful prick (who showed his penis to a 14 year old girl).

ReverseEngineered:

SaneIntolerant:

Sylocat:
It also helps to be completely and utterly misogynistic.

That first link holds no ground at all, you know that, right?

Holds no ground? Did you read the comics? He clearly portrays Lucas as a shallow bastard. Now, that doesn't imply that Tim thinks the same way, but based on the outcome of Lucas' patient lie (something he continues in later parts of the strip), it seems to imply that Tim thinks these things actually work out for the better.

If nothing else, the Refried article points out the obvious -- any woman reading those panels is going to be offended.

So? That's the characters personality, and he later reveals this fact to the girl.

I don't see what the big deal is with some character development every once in a while.

Your really bashing yourself though you realize, with the whole you being a laid-back evil-overlord web comic you made back then. Besides the point that specifically bashed cad(which i read occasionally for chef brain(fish paste!))every point could be easily be said of your old comics.

sfallen:
Being a member of the webcomic community, I see his point and feel some of his pain on many levels.

Gasp! A webcomic author that can weather constructive criticism and satirical jibes? "Perhaps I shall quickly look outside to make sure the sky isn't falling and the seas are not running red with blood, har hee har hee har!"

Not trying to be a smarmy cunt, but I'm glad to see intelligent people in that community and thought you might appreciate the joke.

First of all I wish to point out that Yahtzee almost definitely reads Ctrl-Alt-Delete if he is doing a vid that uses it as an unspoken example (and target).

Aidanadv:
I am, and always will be amused and amazed at all the trivial arguments that go on in the internet in forums and message boards.

Yes but (and I take no credit for this observation) trivial arguments ruin far fewer good friendships than well supported debates do. Other than that all I can say is welcome to the internet I suggest you watch your step. XD

Aidanadv:
As for the review, I agree pretty much with what he said about web comics. The only one I still occasionally enjoy is VGcats, and even then it is still pretty hit and miss.

At this point I really read most of my web comics for the serious plot in the same way that I read something like a Manga. One liners are great and so are week long jokes but what really pulled me into many of the comics I read (CAD specifically actually) was the suspense and wish to see what happens next during really good story lines.

Aidanadv:
Also, whats all this about Buckley sending pics of his wang to little girls?

Probably Internet detritus that has simply been regurgitated by someone who should know better but loses (like so many of us) an embarrassing number of IQ points when they sit down in front of a computer.

PrincessRtardio:
I have never been a follower of CAD and by the looks of it never will be. Most subject matter is fair game on the internet, it may be my vagina talking, but miscarriage for a gaming comic that is not only done with an audience in mind that obviously can't get the "joke" as it is explained to death every step of the way, but it to be used by an obvious virgin with as little life experience as a man fond of dog milk, not to mention as little influence on the gaming world as dog milk! It is just arrogant to the point of obscene. To think it is OK because he does it? What a Johnson! Nice change from reviewing and a very good point! :)

But he has stated in the news posts that he knew he was getting into a serious and potentially unpopular subject. If people don't ever talk about things like this then what does that leave us with? A whole lot of repeated penis jokes and a lot of good serious content that everyone ignores because it doesn't amuse. I personally like the direction CAD has taken. It still has a lot of the humor but it also has a serious plot that involves a serious relationship between two people who love each other. Even XKCD occasionally explores serious subjects.

p1ne:
This sucks. Good satire has a point and this doesn't; it's just bashing for the sake of bashing. Why go to the trouble? It's not like webcomic authors are trying to charge you money for what they make.

I want more clever game reviews. :(

This isn't satirizing web-comics. This is satirizing all those who bash web-comics for failing to live up to some vaguely defined expectation that no one ever really gets around to voicing because all those who feel that they should meet this mystery expectation are to busy bashing the comics for not meeting it and the rest of us don't care (and have no idea what the bashers are smoking) (please note that this does not apply to legitimate criticism of a web-comic. This applies to all those who can't seem to get past the phrase "Because it sucks you moron" in their explanation of WHY it sucks)

I like the grandma but apart from that Catherine Tate makes me want to eat feet.

David_Cat:

The Sound Defense:

David_Cat:

The Sound Defense:

David_Cat:

Vanguard_Ex:

David_Cat:

Vanguard_Ex:

The Sound Defense:

SaneIntolerant:

David_Cat:

Esure:

David_Cat:

Hypersapien:
I am a fan of CAD and I thought the digs at it were funny.

Anyone else think that Buckley is going to retaliate in his comic? I sure hope so.

*grabs popcorn*

I doubt it. Tim is too mature

Wait; what?

Have you ever seen Tim attack Yahtzee?

I need to second this, as Yahtzee has indeed publicly announced his dislike of CAD in the past and I have yet to see Buckley retaliate.

This doesn't exactly make him mature. I think he wants to put on a facade of maturity in this way by not directly attacking his more popular detractors. But it's a well-known fact that anyone who criticizes his comic on his forums, even constructively, is lashed out at and often banned. He's not exactly mature.

Too right. Having a look at CAD over the years I kind of drew the conclusion that Buckley is anything but mature.

He just did a miscarriage storyline, and did it well. He is mature.

A single miscarriage storyline compared to years of jokes including Solid Snake attempting to have sex with Link from the Zelda series. Ah yes, very mature.

That doesn't make him immature.

And your single instance of mature behavior doesn't make him mature, especially when compared to years of acting like he does toward his detractors.

Can you blame him for acting like that? Most of his detractors think they are being so witty by calling him Fuckley.

Do you even know anything about the discussion at hand? Have you ever tried to go on the CAD forums and make even a single instance of constructive criticism? BANNED. The guy has no tolerance for anything besides words of absolute praise. Tell me what the bloody hell is mature about that?

If you can give me an example of this happening, then I may listen.

That would be difficult, since Tim has a nasty habit of bleaching clean any residue of criticism that exists, such as deleting his WoW guild, threads that negatively portray him or his comic, or his proven editing of his own wikipedia page (as well as replacing the PvP page with 'pvp sucks' but we'll gloss over that like Buckley over constructive criticism.)

I'm sure any other threads about this ZP video that are started on his police state forums (which take roughly 2 weeks to join, and about a second to be banned from) would be immediately squeezed out of his forums like a bulbous pimple.

Mythbhavd:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned LFG as a good webcomic. I've found that it's one of the better ones I've viewed, although I'd have to say that I've become a fan of Unforgotten Realms. The characters remind me of some friends of mine.

That actually isn't a gaming comic it is set in a WoWish universe but it doesn't make any game references outside of character design and the way some of the "classes" work.

You know, being one of maybe five people not related to Tim Buckley that still will admit to liking CAD...I probably shouldn't have been laughing my ass of at this.

Damn you Yahtzee.

A punchline should be equated to an actual punch in the face. That's why it's called a punch-line. You deliver it and run. You do not hang around explaining how you did the punch and that the recipient should probably be in a lot of pain now. B^Uckley is the latter.

captain_collide:

David_Cat:

The Sound Defense:

David_Cat:

The Sound Defense:

David_Cat:

Vanguard_Ex:

David_Cat:

Vanguard_Ex:

The Sound Defense:

SaneIntolerant:

David_Cat:

Esure:

David_Cat:

Hypersapien:
I am a fan of CAD and I thought the digs at it were funny.

Anyone else think that Buckley is going to retaliate in his comic? I sure hope so.

*grabs popcorn*

I doubt it. Tim is too mature

Wait; what?

Have you ever seen Tim attack Yahtzee?

I need to second this, as Yahtzee has indeed publicly announced his dislike of CAD in the past and I have yet to see Buckley retaliate.

This doesn't exactly make him mature. I think he wants to put on a facade of maturity in this way by not directly attacking his more popular detractors. But it's a well-known fact that anyone who criticizes his comic on his forums, even constructively, is lashed out at and often banned. He's not exactly mature.

Too right. Having a look at CAD over the years I kind of drew the conclusion that Buckley is anything but mature.

He just did a miscarriage storyline, and did it well. He is mature.

A single miscarriage storyline compared to years of jokes including Solid Snake attempting to have sex with Link from the Zelda series. Ah yes, very mature.

That doesn't make him immature.

And your single instance of mature behavior doesn't make him mature, especially when compared to years of acting like he does toward his detractors.

Can you blame him for acting like that? Most of his detractors think they are being so witty by calling him Fuckley.

Do you even know anything about the discussion at hand? Have you ever tried to go on the CAD forums and make even a single instance of constructive criticism? BANNED. The guy has no tolerance for anything besides words of absolute praise. Tell me what the bloody hell is mature about that?

If you can give me an example of this happening, then I may listen.

I'm sure any other threads about this ZP video that are started on his police state forums (which take roughly 2 weeks to join, and about a second to be banned from) would be immediately squeezed out of his forums like a bulbous pimple.

HIS forums are police state? As opposed to these forums where people get banned for saying "First".

I think the only gaming webcomic that ever made me lol was "DM of the Rings" but that's not about video games. I suppose CAD is proof positive for the GIFT, though I can't say much because I try to keep CAD wank off my side of the Internet (even if it does seep in, the tricky bastard).

This was hilarious of course, actually the hardest I've laughed at Zero Punctuation for a while, but I still have a problem with it...

The issue here is that everybody knows what comic Yahtzee was talking about the whole time, and CAD is a bit of an anomaly in the webcomic world (I think). I think the trend leans much more towards making generic game-related comics that recycle jokes, use bad art, and further alienate gamers from the rest of the world by constantly making references only gamers would get. I think this is a much better critique of webcomics in general:

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail181.html

I mean I know Homestar Runner is so 2006 but I'm sure you can handle watching it anyway...

People get banned everywhere for going 'lol first post' because it's a waste of space and every fuckin' idiot is gonna spam the first portion of the thread trying to claim it. CAD bans people who PRAISE HIM.

BlueInkAlchemist:

sfallen:
Being a member of the webcomic community, I see his point and feel some of his pain on many levels.

Gasp! A webcomic author that can weather constructive criticism and satirical jibes? "Perhaps I shall quickly look outside to make sure the sky isn't falling and the seas are not running red with blood, har hee har hee har!"

Not trying to be a smarmy cunt, but I'm glad to see intelligent people in that community and thought you might appreciate the joke.

=) Nah, didn't see it as you being crass. It's one of those things that is rampant in the community: the inability to laugh at themselves or take criticism. Oh... and keep update schedules. That's the other big one (and I know I'm very guilty of it.)

I'm just glad one of my friends introduced me to Zero Punctuation during one of our Halo 3 nights, it's a fun watch even if I disagree on some points but that's life.

Making your main character a misogynist is not good character development, it's a good way of losing part of your fan base (the female side, and a healthy portion of the touchy-feely males who get pissed at crap like misogyny) and doing a story about a miscarriage will get even those males, who aren't touchy-feely, a little concerned about your sanity, because no one reads web comics to see truly tragic things happen to the characters in it. I'll be honest I've read CAD in the past and I thought it was quite uninteresting, which is why I never managed to read more than 2 of them.

Melo The Yellow:
People get banned everywhere for going 'lol first post' because it's a waste of space and every fuckin' idiot is gonna spam the first portion of the thread trying to claim it. CAD bans people who PRAISE HIM.

I doubt that somehow.

All. Hail. Yahtzee. Thank you SO MUCH for this.

Unless they're discussing the games I'm actually able to play, I don't care for gamer comics.

OH- and I'm actually one of those cartoonists who DOES answer the cry of "Let's see YOU do better". Whether or not I have is up to you. So? How did I do...?

I was published way back when...

So I'm guessing not many people celebrate Winter-een-mas then? ;-)

Here's something the world needs to learn- comic strips are just simply NOT a very engaging and compelling medium. CAD, PA, whatever webcomic are just Cathy or Dilbert or Garfield or whatever other shitty Sunday funnies except with a different mask on and pretentions of "counter-culture".

Complaining about how Puzzle Quest doesn't make any real world sense is exactly the same as complaining about how you buy too many dresses, how you hate mondays or how your boss hands out too many memos. They're all NON-ISSUES.

Think about it very bland and flatly for a second - where exactly are the JOKES or punchlines in these comics? Exactly, there aren't any (usually); they are criticisms disguised as jokes, but the real joke is that they are actually criticisms of the assholes that find them funny - the same people who find Puzzle Quest, shopping, mondays and memos funny. They point out how much of an idiot you are for worrying about such bullshit.

So don't think of Yahtzee's video as an attack on ONE comic strip, or even web comics, but think of it as th first step toward unmasking the horrible medium.

David_Cat:

Melo The Yellow:
People get banned everywhere for going 'lol first post' because it's a waste of space and every fuckin' idiot is gonna spam the first portion of the thread trying to claim it. CAD bans people who PRAISE HIM.

I doubt that somehow.

Dude, what is there to doubt? Your 'argument' has been nothing but the textual equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and yelling "I'M NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA!"

If anything you've shown how mindless CAD fans are, that you would come to this forum and just say "nuh-uh" to every piece of CAD criticism that crops up. You've presented nothing edifying to convince anyone that your Tim is nothing but a talentless hack who can't take criticism (and apparently neither can his fans.)

Just give up.

The RoM Incident

Whilst CAD had been watching its reading on the failure-o-meter increase for several years, there remained one element about it that did not follow this pattern. Rantings of Madmen was the closest the CAD forums had to worthwhile content. It was an island in which the odd funny post could be found amongst a sea of emo kids, otaku, Tim's groupies, basement-dwelling nerds and furries.

On September the 11th, 2005, a post was made in RoM called "This thread contains a motherfucking forum revelation". The thread alleged what many had long suspected: Tim was a closet pedo, who had sent pictures of his shriveled and malformed cock to under-age forum members. Some lol'd, some refused to believe it, some maintained they knew it all along.

Suddenly, Tim found it, and like any sensible adult who was innocent of a wrongful claim put against him, threw a huge fucking hissy fit. He waded in, banhammer swinging left and right. Dozens of users who had posted in the thread, guilty of deflating his ego or not, were banned instantly and without mercy.
Tim proved his wit by posting lame banned macros and using stupid one liners. Notice the lack of laughs.

At this point several mods rebelled and unbanned all of the banned users, provoking a massive shitstorm in which RoM posters spammed the entire forum with guro and goatse images (Oh and week-old 4chan macros). Using IRC, all banned users and banned mods were unbanned just as fast as Tim could ban them and handle the spam problem. Eventually, he gave up, deleting the Rantings of Madmen section and eventually locking the entire forum for five days with the message "forums are down whilst we take out the trash". At the end of the battle 5000 users had been removed from the forum database, but the entire internet saw how much of a batshit insane faggot Tim was, marking a mass exodus of readers and the elimination of any respect he may have once had.

After it was all said and done, several weak faggots who had previously been sucking up to everyone in RoM decided to kiss Tim's ass instead, resulting in the modship of such faggots as Cyanide, Abbadon and Sidnaceous, and the introduction of a nazi police state on the CAD forums.

RoM moved on to its own forum, not having much more to do with anything, but occasionally emerging to laugh at whatever stupid bullshit Tim was up to at the time. Whether or not Tim actually DID show his penis is debated furiously to this day, but most agree he wouldn't have been such an over-reacting fuckwit if he was innocent.

To be honest I think that webcomics are just one symptom of the over all problem that the internet gives everybody a platform whether they have anything to say or not. I of course include myself in that glorious number.

captain_collide:

David_Cat:

Melo The Yellow:
People get banned everywhere for going 'lol first post' because it's a waste of space and every fuckin' idiot is gonna spam the first portion of the thread trying to claim it. CAD bans people who PRAISE HIM.

I doubt that somehow.

Dude, what is there to doubt? Your 'argument' has been nothing but the textual equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and yelling "I'M NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA!"

If anything you've shown how mindless CAD fans are, that you would come to this forum and just say "nuh-uh" to every piece of CAD criticism that crops up. You've presented nothing edifying to convince anyone that your Tim is nothing but a talentless hack who can't take criticism (and apparently neither can his fans.)

Just give up.

I do not say "nuh-uh" to every piece of CAD criticism, I hate the CAD forums.

Ah, Buckley. I remember finding a website that lets you look at all the changes made to Wiki articles and see where they came from (IP ranges at the very least, I think). A hell of a lot of quotes that might have possibly been anywhere in the region of negative regarding Buckley? Deleted. Same IP range or whatever. Claimed to be from Buckley but I don't know if that's true or not.

Given what I know of the man, I'd say it's probable. He can't write effective and concise dialogue, he steals his backgrounds from a Google search rather than create them himself... I swear he's probably the man behind Limbo of the Lost.

I'll remember the URL one of these days.

Yatzhee feels pretty strong about this, because he made his own web comic(s) a while back.
He probably doesnt get why something that stupid gets an unbelievable amount of attention, where as his old comics were pretty much unseen.

Blayze:
Ah, Buckley. I remember finding a website that lets you look at all the changes made to Wiki articles and see where they came from (IP ranges at the very least, I think). A hell of a lot of quotes that might have possibly been anywhere in the region of negative regarding Buckley? Deleted. Same IP range or whatever. Claimed to be from Buckley but I don't know if that's true or not.
I'll remember the URL one of these days.

Found it. http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/list_edits.php?ip1=68.60.213.27&ip2=&ip3=&ip4=#

Melo The Yellow:
Whether or not Tim actually DID show his penis is debated furiously to this day, but most agree he wouldn't have been such an over-reacting fuckwit if he was innocent.

This is not a defence of the guy but if somebody said that about me I'd be pretty angry. Don't forget if it had been in a newspaper he'd have sued and nobody would have argued that kind of action. The internet is harder to handle, it has too many anonymous targets.

It does sound like he went mental though.

This reminds me of something:

http://badwebcomics.blogspot.com/ ^^

And as for a good webcomic:

http://www.blastwavecomic.com/

Zirror:
Yatzhee feels pretty strong about this, because he made his own web comic(s) a while back.
He probably doesnt get why something that stupid gets an unbelievable amount of attention, where as his old comics were pretty much unseen.

You make him sound very bitter. Is that really how you see it?

captain_collide:
Dude, what is there to doubt? Your 'argument' has been nothing but the textual equivalent of blah blah blah shown how mindless CAD fans are blabbity blab presented nothing edifying to convince anyone blah blah talentless hack blah blah blah Just give up.

David_Cat:
HIS forums are police state? As opposed to these forums where people blah blah etc.

PrincessRtardio:
Catherine Tate makes me want to eat feet.

I don't care if you like CAD or not, after hanging around forums for a while you have to at least appreciate this:

http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20080227

This strikes me as, aside from being a not-very-subtle-or-thinly-veiled attack on CTRL+ALT+DEL, a statement talking about the general over-saturation of gaming-oriented comics following the success of Penny Arcade. Calling himself the "alpha self-important bearded tosser", though, made me take this less seriously than I might otherwise.

The man likes xkcd and the Perry Bible Fellowship, how bad can he be?

Not that it'll stop anyone, but some of the people around here really ought to start making a distinction between the comic (that which Yahtzee is criticizing) and the author. I can't recall which ZP it was, but Yahtzee did make a point about disliking hot dogs because of who the vendor is and the general futility of that sort of thing. Bang on Buckley all you like, but that's not the focus of this somewhat ill-advised review.

On the subject of the review -- which made a lot more sense in the essay he wrote on his site but, of course, no one on the internet reads and, thus, Yahtzee convinced himself that a video would be the way to badly get his point across -- it's somewhat ironic that the criticism that Buckley doesn't know how to build up a punchline well is somehow negated by the simplistic comics he posted today. Apparently he does know how to do it but hasn't yet figured out how to integrate it into his rigid format?

I'm not paying for either ZP or CAD, though, so I'll continue to enjoy them as they wax and wane. My offense as a consumer only appears when I'm actually paying for crap.

TheFunkeyGibbon:
This is not a defense of the guy but if somebody said that about me I'd be pretty angry. Don't forget if it had been in a newspaper he'd have sued and nobody would have argued that kind of action. The internet is harder to handle, it has too many anonymous targets.

It does sound like he went mental though.

True, but most people have the able mind to shrug it off and tell the person that their statement is hilarious and never mention it again. Buckley on the other hand, banned moderators, users, IPs and deleted just about everything he could about it. But I do agree, it's quite annoying getting told things that aren't true by other to yourself.

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