Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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Im really surprised you never mentioned dying. When you die, you lose everything youve built up, and i was sure this would twist up your panties, but you never delved into it.

Well, I wasn't entirely surprised that you went and savaged one of my favorite games. But that's what they pay you for and what we come to see you for. And I couldn't object to most of your observations.

My only disagreement is your statement that "If you think EVE is fun than you are provably wrong." The thing is, many of the features that attract people to EVE are ones you disliked - the skill system helps people who don't play every day keep up. Also, the game is slanted towards those who DO join a player-run corporation.

But you weren't entirely wrong when you said that EVE feels like a game that doesn't want to be liked. EVE doesn't try to appeal to a wide audience. It has instead cultivated a dedicated fanbase - and it's these people that the devs listen to, communicate with, and fly out to Iceland at CCP's expense to discuss game balance.

Finally, I've noticed that you don't like multiplayer, given how when reviewing a game that has both singleplayer and multiplayer you focus on the singleplayer exclusively. You've stated that you don't like other people in general, which is probably why you don't like multiplayer. But the attraction of an MMO is playing with other people. Therefore, if I were you, I would write off all MMOs for good, and stick to single-player games.

I've never been much of an MMO man myself, I had a brief stab at WoW but pulled pritty quickly seening as friends were becoming a thing of the past. I give this one a much wider birth than WoW I think

When I first found the wonders of The Escapist, I would see the banner add for EVE and at first was like, "meh".

Then I played Mass Effect and thought, what if I'm missing a Mass Effect-esque MMO. I mean, I love RPG(even if it IS in space). The grind and all...

After watching this review and reading the comments, I feel that I just was saved a tremendous amount of time, and more importantly crushed expectations. I'm sure there is something to be said for sticking with a game to see where it 'goes', so to speak. But I enjoy my free time and call me a terrible person, if I have to endure through a FEW weeks of suck to get to the gold mine that IS EVE online(or ANY MMO for that matter). I'll Pass. Thank you Yahtzee and commentors for your weekly insight. This time I will take another's word.

Raisin bread dragon was awesome!

Great review, I'm waiting for a Mercenaries 2 review.

Pve in eve is like playing battlefield only against bots, you can do it...

Yuss.

Although many of my friends do say that EVE is nothing like WoW, I disagree, but not entirely. EVE brings several new concepts to the table yet still has that Warcraft stench to it. I myself have never played WoW, but form the story my friends tell me about it, the two games are quite similar.

For example: During my two week trial I decided to unofficially integrate myself into a small mining fleet several systems from the edge of Caldari-controlled territory. The fleet consisted of ten ships, one super tanker, two large miners, two medium frieghters, and five frigates. We were about to wrap up the whole operation when out of nowhere a group of cruisers appears and proceeds to start picking us off. While only me and the tanker survived to sell off our cargo, the other person told me that what had happened was similar to when in WoW you and your group are ambushed, killed (and T-bagged) by bandits.

Also there are the same blocks of grind when it comes doing missions for NPCs who ut only stand around with their thumbs up their posteriors.

I could go on listing all of the things EVE and WoW have in common, but I (unlike many EVE players) have a job to go to today.

I love the "and the advertise on The Escapist, which makes it feel like a challenge."

Calling Eve the best MMO ever is more than a little stretch.

Eve is, frankly, boring for the majority.

Eve fanatics use the term "theme park" for normal MMOs. If WoW is a theme park, then Eve is an empty parking lot. Sure, you can do whatever you want, but you need a lot of people and if you don't get along with those people you ain't having any fun.

I have no idea how I'm supposed to enjoy grinding for things and then losing them in PvP, just for blowing someone else up occasionally. If I want to blow things up, or get blown up myself, I go play Team Fortress 2. If I want to grind, I go seek psychiatric help.

I've been laughing me tits off for ten fucking minutes. Not, that I agree, mind you, but its simply too bloody funny to let it slip by.

I played the demo version and saw the "allow two to three hours for tutorial" and instantly knew what i was getting myself into. So i played it anyway, and the baffling amount of statistics there are crushed any soul it had. Ok so this was at like, 1am.
So the next morning i tried again, but still got the same tired, bored feeling in the pit of my stomach, so i went to party and got trashed with my friends instead. =P

I kind've agree with this review, despite having been playing EVE for 4 years. :p The game improves if you've played for over a month and if you've got friends in the game, but if you haven't got either of those, it's gonna be a boring and rather futile experience.

The comments about whining make me suspect that a visit to the EVE forum was made, and I can only apologize to anyone who's experienced it. It is a truly depressing place. :(

An Eve review that focuses on single-player PvE is like...well, it's like a Soul Calibur review that focuses on single-player PvE. You have to see Yahtzee as more of a videogame-based comedian than a proper reviewer, really. Coming soon on ZP: See what crazy antics result when Yahtzee plays Spore in the style of someone reviewing a space combat simulator!

lord667:
An Eve review that focuses on single-player PvE is like...well, it's like a Soul Calibur review that focuses on single-player PvE. You have to see Yahtzee as more of a videogame-based comedian than a proper reviewer, really. Coming soon on ZP: See what crazy antics result when Yahtzee plays Spore in the style of someone reviewing a space combat simulator!

I completely agree with you, he's a laugh but people enjoy different games. however, there are those that suck ass, and then there are those that are awesome, to everyone.
I mean, i bought psyconauts on steam on his recommendation and its freakin' awesome.

Been playing eve for years now, and I think he just hit the nail on the head about eve - the 14 day trial is pretty crap.

I dont like them, but the in game alliance goonswarm had a thing (dont know if they still do it or not) where you could join them while on your 14 day trial, theyd give you a free frigate to come along and pvp with them. THAT, would probibly hook some people in 14 days.

but when they stick you in highsec and you hear horror stories about daring to enter lowsec; your pretty much stuck to pve, and few corps would hire anyone thats on a trial account anyways.

Eve has ruined me for other mmo's, honestly. I cant begin to enjoy "pointless" pvp like in wow - and having played the warhammer beta, im not sold on it yet either. THAT game is a wow-rip-off. Eve is the furthest thing from a wow rippoff you can get for a graphical mmo.

But, if you want to Solo pve, what are you doing playing an MMO in the end? seriously?

I knew that Yahtzee would rip this game to shreds. I see one fundamental flaw with EVE Online, and that's related to the fact that it's a space-simulator. That means that it eventually has to be compared to the Elite series, which invented the combat/trading space-sim formula. The developers themselves cite the original Elite as an inspiration. And I don't think it compares overly well.

EVE Online isn't particularly technically advanced compared to the hardware it runs on and it's extremely difficult to get into the game (OK, Frontier: Elite II and Frontier: First Encounters didn't exactly have a shallow learning curve, but you could play them without having to flowchart your way through them). They might be different sub-genres of the space simulator, but if they're citing Elite as a reference, couldn't they pull out some of the fun that was in Elite, along with the endless opportunities?

Love it. Slower pace, but the jokes were far better and I was able to appreciate it more.

Also: Note the fact that The Escapist has turned into in-WarCry ads now. :P

I see a lot of people saying that Eve is one of the best MMO's ever. On the other hand, I see a lot of people saying that the first few weeks suck, and somehow, I can't put those two 'facts' (?) together. A game which isn't fun for the first weeks you play it, isn't worth to be called the best MMO.

Really, those first days should make you want to play the game more. I don't know if you guys have ever played WoW, but I know that when I did for the first time, I was blown away. I was amazed by the lore behind everything. I had a great time. I'm not going to play a game if the first few weeks, I don't enjoy it.

From someone who does play EVE regularly, I must agree with Yahtzee on a lot of points. EVE has a learning curve that is steep as f*** and it takes at least 1-2 months to get properly into what is what. But once you get into the advanced part of the game (which might take up to 6 months or more, another con against EVE), it really starts to light up.

The idea behind EVE is great, the implementation is less-than-stellar, but still really damn cool once you get the hang of it. I wish someone would rip it off blatantly and improve on all the flaws ;)

I keep taking offense to Yahtzee referring to WoW as the quintessential MMORPG, when it is actually a rip off of already existing MMORPGs of the past.

Me having played EQ(1), Lineage 2 and other such games, realize this, but it drives me crazy that he kepts referring to them , indirectly I'll bet, as "WoW clones" when WoW itself is a major(and horrid I might add) clone of other MMORPGs.

I suppose an accurate comparison would be, he keeps referring to "FPS" games as Quake clones when Doom/Wolfenstein did it WAY sooner.

Talith:

Veloxi:
Thank you for such an excellent review. As a space game fanatic, I'll play anything with a spaceship in it, and while I can handle most games, EVE bores the CRAP out of me.

If you want to try a space-based MMO wherein actual skill does matter, try Jumpgate -- wherin you actually have to fly the spaceships rather than simply pointing and clicking. Far, far superior, IMO.

EVE has a number of older players and players who do not enjoy twitch-based gameplay, including myself.
Looking over the page of features for jumpgate, it seems to have many of the same features as EVE (plus what looks to be a PVP flag).

I don't see anything on the scale of EVE's player-made corporations and alliances and those are where much of the best content is.

JG is much more of a niche title due to the space-simmy elements, so it doesn't have as wide an appeal as more sedate, easier-to-play games such as EVE, in my opinion. This means it has less players as well, sadly, and while it doesn't have corporations, it does have squadrons which is somewhat similar.

Jumpgate Evolution -- the sequel to JG Classic -- is on its way and will hopefully have more of the elements you discussed, but I'm unsure if it will at the moment.

I'll be probably the 50th person so far to say "Eve PvE Sucks hairly monkey balls". But seriously get over it, its ment to.

You see, the only way to make people actually cry when you kill them, is to make you have to work to get there. When you kill someone, they get SO angry (ranging from bitching at you for an hour to quitting the game) because it can take them hours, days, weeks or months to earn it back. Drinking the tears of my enemies is one of the features of Eve Online.

The PvP basis of the game is made even more fun by the politics of corporations and alliances, the capturing of more than 2/3s of the game and the economy that's almost as realistic as RL.

The main downside? Well I've been playing for almost 2 years now. It took me 2 weeks to understand what was going on and 6 months before I could really kill anyone. But thats the joy for some people, figuring out what is going on. You say the new player experience was rubbish? Well its alot easier than when I started, and before my time there was no tutorials at all. It just threw you out there.

BentNeatly:
Im really surprised you never mentioned dying. When you die, you lose everything youve built up, and i was sure this would twist up your panties, but you never delved into it.

If he only did missions and didn't join a corporation, he likely didn't do much dying. Plus he was only on a two-week trial, which means the biggest thing he could have lost is a cheap cruiser. This is the basic reason why Eve's PvE is so notoriously boring; it's basically impossible to die once you even kind of know what you're doing, doubly so if you're not in a corporation (and thus immune from war).

The whole dice-roll combat system pissed me off, I played EVE for all of about 1 hour and decided it wasn't for me. I am however looking forward to Jumpgate Evolution, which you actually shoot shit instead of letting the game do it for you. I got to play with that at PAX08 and while it's not ready for release yet, it's definitely good looking and enjoyable.

Also http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c.jpg

Lunarbunny:
The whole dice-roll combat system pissed me off, I played EVE for all of about 1 hour and decided it wasn't for me. I am however looking forward to Jumpgate Evolution, which you actually shoot shit instead of letting the game do it for you. I got to play with that at PAX08 and while it's not ready for release yet, it's definitely good looking and enjoyable.

Also http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c.jpg

Its not actually a dice roll. Thats a very simple way of looking at it for the simple minded.

Information such as transversal velocity, gun tracking, range to target (is it within optimal or falloff), signature radius and obviously the damage modifier on the gun determine how much damage your gun does.

Eve is for mathematicians.

Ok, well, I've been watching ZP right from the start, and found Yahtzee to be spot on with everything.

I've been playing Eve Online for well over 2 years now, and yes, im one of those bizzaro world people with shoes on my head.

And, you know what, Yahtzee is spot on again.

Eve is, put very simply, a load of chatrooms and spreadsheets, glued together, with some pretty spaceships sprinkled in, and certainly if he avoided player corporations, then thats exactly all he would have seen for the first 2 weeks.

The best bits are when you join one of those player-run corporations, as there's far more to Eve than you would typically see from just messing around in the default starter corp.

I'm one of the directors (read: head-shoe wearers) of Eve University, and for well over four years now we've been training new players, just like Yahtzee, and getting them up to speed with the game.

Right now, we have 1300 active members, who join, learn the basics with us, and then go on to do whatever they want, be that industry, PvP, running their own corp or whatever.

We have veterans providing tips, information, and their first hand knowledge free of charge, forums with loads of posts about ship setups, things to do, see, and get involved in, and we run regular classes on detailed subjects, not to mention corp chat which usually has 80-100 people online, who can usually answer just about any question.

Eve is a sandbox, and to review it in 'single player' mode is like the sandbox without the sand. Its a box - theres nothing there, and nothing to do.

So Yahtzee, I humbly request, no... challenge you to re-review Eve Online, after being part of a player corp such as Eve University, for the majority of those 2 weeks of trial.

You are of course free to say "I was right, Eve is BORING", but I suspect if you are looking for something which is not like WoW, you may be surprised when you get involved in player corps.

The same goes for everyone else. Eve is not the starter corporations, its the player corps, although it does have a steep learning curve/wall, we do what we can to provide you with the ladder.

--
Kelduum Revaan
Director of Diplomacy and chief head-shoe wearer
Eve University

I must first admit that I'm one of those strange zombie-people who finds WoW and other MMOs to be fun games, despite the lack of color to my now-translucent skin. I know Yahtzee's feelings in general towards MMOs, so I thought to test out Eve before I went around Yaying or Naying his convictions. I have never before felt such a loss at that hour of my life. I'm about as Nerd as they come, but this made me want to go outside and play with rabid dogs for a bit. Anything to shut it off.

TimMc:

Lunarbunny:
The whole dice-roll combat system pissed me off, I played EVE for all of about 1 hour and decided it wasn't for me. I am however looking forward to Jumpgate Evolution, which you actually shoot shit instead of letting the game do it for you. I got to play with that at PAX08 and while it's not ready for release yet, it's definitely good looking and enjoyable.

Also http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3088/2335016192_6003c39c4c.jpg

Its not actually a dice roll. Thats a very simple way of looking at it for the simple minded.

Information such as transversal velocity, gun tracking, range to target (is it within optimal or falloff), signature radius and obviously the damage modifier on the gun determine how much damage your gun does.

Eve is for mathematicians.

that explains why i cant stand it. If i wanted to do maths, I'd be in college.
speaking of which, does anyone else enjoy rabbit algebra? *sarcastic overtone*

I dont know why, but as an Eve player I found it hard to agree with most of what he whines about. :)
Eve has very little in common, if anything at all, with WoW. WoW requires that you grind at a skill, Eve doesnt. Eve requires intelligence and forward planning, WoW requires even more grinding.
It is skill based for sure, but those 'skills' can take you into different, in game, facets. Industrial, merchants, pirates, player corps etc etc. And as for his stupid 'kicking at shins' comments. How wrong he is. Eve is tactical, very tactical. From solo play to small fleets to mass fleet engagements. Battleships, Carriers, Titans, Dreads, Frigates, Logistics, Electronic counter measures, Interceptors, Assualt ships etc.. all have a VERY important role to play and nothing to do with sitting there and 'slugging it out until someone falls over'. A fleet of Battleships with frigate support and logistics can take down the biggest ship (Titan) in the game. A ship that takes 10's of billions in game currency to buy and years of training to fly. All lost to players without those years in skills. Thats part of the joy of Eve, the challenge to do better, to hit above your weight.
Wars happen everywhere in Eve, giving ample opportunity for all players, regardless of skills to take part. They can be fun, the server can be laggy. But an important part ZP missed, its all ONE server. No shards. You cant skip to a different server to avoid a war or a pirate, its there, deal with it, win or lose.
Also, just because you have been playing Eve for 5 years doesnt mean you cant have your arse handed to you on a plate by a player only 3 months old. Tactics tactics tactics.
Stick to reviewing FPS games ZP, you seem alot happier there.

Not your funniest by half. I think you were actually serious this time. Saw you on Saturday at Toowong Village (you MacDonalds hound)...was going to ask what you were doing this week but you went for seconds. Now I know, maybe next week will be better.

Whats there not to "get" about Eve? A MMO should be fun in its 1st few hrs of playing. Eve isn't fun, not because its deep or complicated, but because its not designed to be intuitive. I've played plenty of intuitive yet complicated games, but Eve isn't one of them. If you're not heavily involved in a guild, don't enjoy spreadsheet economy simulators or nerd on nerd politics, the game offers mostly nothing interesting. The battle system is slow and bland. The UI is terrible. The environments are beautiful, yet completely non-interactive and repetitive. You've seen one star system, you've seen them all. The travel system is painfully slow. The training system REWARDS not actually playing.

You have to be the kind of person who can tolerate nerd on nerd politics to enjoy the game, but you're going to have to wait a few months to even contribute. Its not like we don't understand or "get it". We don't want to understand it;)

Like someone else metnioned, Eve would be better suited as a text MUDD. Do the graphics actually add to the experience, when vast amounts of time "playing" aren't spent looking at the screen?

Although the review was funny, the points he made to pick on were only due to lack of knowledge of the game.
Complaining of not knowing what a skill is is just wrong. If you read the info on the skill it tells you...that simple.

The games attraction is not the missions (altho they are GREAT in higher level agents) its the hardcore PvP and the community.

The whole video just stunk of "not really understanding the game, so I will trash it".

That said, I am glad EVE puts people off. The people that dont enjoy the game are usually hyper FPS twats.

i played EVE online and i had tghe same problems he did, why the **** would you have "go to sleep and wait" for you to level up?doesnt make sense, and i have to whole heartedly agree with teh interface remark about teh well and the monitor, felt like i was a retarded chimp trying to fly a boeing 747 with no fingers

and to anyone that trashed him about the fact that he didnt like EVE

HES NOT ALONE!!!
find something else to get mad about, or you could get a job with most mainstream news crews you might have a lot in common

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