Reasonable Comics For Reasonable People

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Lord Krunk:

Silent Protagonist:
I like to pretend this comic is a call for people to be more level-headed and reasonable when discussing issues, especially in the relatively trivial sphere of gaming. I know it's really a passive aggressive and snarky response to all the people who dared to be insulted and upset by their previous comic and the massive flaming thread that resulted from it, but I like to pretend it could be something more.

Part of what was frustrating about the "White Guy Defense force" comic is that such aggressive, dismissive, and insulting caricatures of different viewpoints or opinions like the ones found in that comic are already far too common in these discussions. They are a major part of why so many discussions devolve into pointless flame wars like the thread on last weeks comic. We need far more encouragement of the attitude of mutual respect that can bring forth actual discussion and growth found and subsequently mocked in this weeks comic.

This comic would have been brilliant if it wasn't for the subtext of "Oh well, people got insulted so I guess we won't try to do anything funny ever again." It's a shame.

Agreed. I just rolled my eyes at the last comic and moved on without responding, because I knew they were just trolling for views. This comic would have been clever if the last one was funny, and not agonizing for anyone other than manginas to read.

Grey, if you are reading this, enough webcomic artists have turned the medium into a joke by pulling this crap. I know you're better than this. The viewership might be down, but please have some integrity. Please don't jump the shark, if you haven't already.

(inb4 the next comic mocking that last statement)

That's all I really have to say.

Well I believe the last comic was pretty good but eh. Hit or miss. If you took the wrong thing from it you took the wrong thing from it nothing more to say about it

As someone who's been producing and manufacturing strawmen for years, I'm totally offended.

Amir Kondori:

Krantos:
Mel Brooks once said: (Here)

"You have to love {what} you parody."

That, I think is the major failing of Critical Miss, and why their "Parody" comics draw so much heat. There doesn't seem to be much Love from Grey and Carter. Most of their topical comics come across more as mean spirited and derisive. I'd say it's more Satire.

You will never make friends with Satire. It is, by definition ridicule.

If all you're looking for is page views and traffic, I'd say your technique is perfect. Inflammatory statements usually are for that.

However, if you're trying to promote honest discussion and progress... I don't think Ridicule and derision ever lead to anything constructive happening. At least not on the internet.

I really don't think they are super concerned with promoting "honest discussion and progress". I think they are primarily concerned with putting out a popular comic.

The point is that the best referential humour (in this case, satire and parody) are borne from affection. Humour borne from anything else, in the rare event that it is funny, will date quickly. In this case, the humour was borne from intentional controversy (better known as 'trolling') and a desire to draw out a jab at an easy target. Example: I don't think you're going to see any 'blackface' pantomimes any time in the near future, when a century or two ago they were all the rage. This comic is running on the same brand of humour, but directing it at one of our generation's easy targets instead.

Mel Brooks made two movies about a Nazi musical, while being Jewish - as tongue in cheek as it was, it never pointed any fingers and came out all the stronger for it. That's what his quote meant.

Hope that clears things up.

"Help wanted. upper management straw man. Inquire within."

You know you don't actually have to be mean and offensive to do comedy. Look at XKCD, they have been in business a lot longer than you and are still good and not offensive as far as I know.

Hello there, part of the people who "by inaction let a vocal minority speak in my name" here.

I don't "let" anyone speak in my name, because it implies I can stop people from around the world from saying stupid crap. I can't, you can't, no-one can. The best way to deal with them is to ignore their comments, just let it go, stop giving them attention, it might sound crazy but it's not a issue worth stressing over.

People who play videogames already are a very small portion of the world'd population, those who can even be arsed to read gaming websites even smaller, and those who comment are smaller even and inside this tiny, insignificant group of people there's an even smaller group who'll say stupid shit. And you're giving those people the spotlight on your webcomic and your news site.

shephardjhon:
You know you don't actually have to be mean and offensive to do comedy. Look at XKCD, they have been in business a lot longer than you and are still good and not offensive as far as I know.

XKCD is highly offensive.

dubious_wolf:

shephardjhon:
You know you don't actually have to be mean and offensive to do comedy. Look at XKCD, they have been in business a lot longer than you and are still good and not offensive as far as I know.

XKCD is highly offensive.

I find your statement about XKCD being offensive to be offensive.

After the last one I guess some epic backpedaling was necessary.

Oh, come on. You know strawmen will always have jobs as long as CNN and Fox News exist.

Only two far extremes yup.
There's no way to exist otherwise.
If you're not in for as extreme as it gets this is the only possible other way it can go.
If you're against these laws you hate america.

...

Zzzzzzz...

anthony87:

dubious_wolf:

shephardjhon:
You know you don't actually have to be mean and offensive to do comedy. Look at XKCD, they have been in business a lot longer than you and are still good and not offensive as far as I know.

XKCD is highly offensive.

I find your statement about XKCD being offensive to be offensive.

HA! loved it!

Krantos:
There doesn't seem to be much Love from Grey and Carter.

You mean Grey and Cory, right? Or was that just hyperbole trying to say Grey has enough bitterness for two people?

Silent Protagonist:
I like to pretend this comic is a call for people to be more level-headed and reasonable when discussing issues, especially in the relatively trivial sphere of gaming. I know it's really a passive aggressive and snarky response to all the people who dared to be insulted and upset by their previous comic and the massive flaming thread that resulted from it, but I like to pretend it could be something more.

Part of what was frustrating about the "White Guy Defense force" comic is that such aggressive, dismissive, and insulting caricatures of different viewpoints or opinions like the ones found in that comic are already far too common in these discussions. They are a major part of why so many discussions devolve into pointless flame wars like the thread on last weeks comic. We need far more encouragement of the attitude of mutual respect that can bring forth actual discussion and growth found and subsequently mocked in this weeks comic.

This comic would have been brilliant if it wasn't for the subtext of "Oh well, people got insulted so I guess we won't try to do anything funny ever again." It's a shame.

I think you may be over looking some context of the medium itself. You sight that the comic makes use of caricatures; are caricatures in themselves not meant to be gross exaggerations of what they depict? They aren't meant to be taken seriously, or if they are, taken with a huge grain of salt.

On the other hand we are talking about a comic here, a medium who's history is founded on a basis of sarcasm and ridicule. Pick up any newspaper today and you will find political cartoons doing the same things to politicians that Grey and Cory are doing with this comic here. Is everything depicted true? Hell no. Is it offensive? Usually to whatever person or group it comments on. Does it get a point across? You bet it does, as can be seen by your comment and the comments on the last comic. It isn't a particularly subtle medium; comic writers and artists have to convey a point that some people could write pages about in a few frames. That isn't easy, and can be forced into coming off as more haphazard than careful, but their point is made, showing how carefully it was constructed and therefore it is a success. If you are looking for, as you said, "more encouragement of the attitude of mutual respect that can bring forth actual discussion and growth" and by that I'm guessing you mean civilized and sophisticated discussion, I think you are looking at the wrong medium to provide it, and also remember that the internet doesn't have the best track record as a whole if you are looking for clean discussion, although the Escapist has been a pretty good place for it overall.

That all being said, there are comics meant specifically to entertain, but even those tend to delve into deeper meanings on top of the literal arcs they depict.

shephardjhon:
You know you don't actually have to be mean and offensive to do comedy. Look at XKCD, they have been in business a lot longer than you and are still good and not offensive as far as I know.

It is funny that you mention them specifically as not offensive because I was unfamiliar with this comic and looked it up. Hit the random button once and this one happened to pop up, http://xkcd.com/1197/ . If that isn't making fun of adobe then I don't know what it is doing. Just proves my point about comics being a medium built on sarcasm and ridicule. Some of the comics may be specifically for entertainment value, but then that is the point they are trying to make.

If their point is something beyond face entertainment value, comics are far more likely to ridicule something in a comedic way because it catches eyes and conveys a message. People also like to hear some of society's more serious problems in a lighter form of comedy than raw.

Overall, great job Cory and Grey. The comics are funny, have great substance, and have some fantastic artwork to tie it all together. That sounds like a successful comic to me. Keep up the good work!

JonB:
3.5/5 stars. honestly this comic has gone so far downhill it is ridiculous. i am not reading it anymore.

grey carter used to write about serious important topics and now he has turned into a coward who only writes moronic pc things to please everyone. he is worse than the oatmeal.

As good as GTAV then.....

It's an ok comic I suppose. I read through the panels in a stoic manner and acknowledged the point.

ticklefist:
After the last one I guess some epic backpedaling was necessary.

Oh come on, this is as far from backpedaling as humanly possible.
It's cycling.
With a jet attached.
Whilst screaming "YOLO" at the top of your lungs.

The Bread is Delicious:

Krantos:
There doesn't seem to be much Love from Grey and Carter.

You mean Grey and Cory, right? Or was that just hyperbole trying to say Grey has enough bitterness for two people?

Yeah, that was just a mistake on my part, I meant Grey and Cory. Sorry.

I approved of this comic. I would also love to see that strawman become a meme image posted repeatedly on the forums whenever his name is invoked.

Is it... are... are we....

*Phew*, good. I'm a little bit nervous to walk around here anymore. Last time I showed up, there were just dead worms and open cans everywhere, and I didn't know how to deal with it, so I got out of dodge.

Krantos:

The Bread is Delicious:

Krantos:
There doesn't seem to be much Love from Grey and Carter.

You mean Grey and Cory, right? Or was that just hyperbole trying to say Grey has enough bitterness for two people?

Yeah, that was just a mistake on my part, I meant Grey and Cory. Sorry.

Just wanted to clarify, the second seemed a very strong possibility the more I thought about it, haha. Grey's cynicism does seem to be quite formidable in its own right.

This comic has made my day! Kudos to you guys, I haven't grinned like this since...well, last night (GTA V has had me grinning for a while)

What's this? Honest, open, rational discussion of problems in the video game industry? What madness is this? First Jim Sterling gives us a Jimquisition not about gender or publisher dickery, now this?! WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?!

Oh don't worry, Mr. Strawman, you'll still find plenty of work in political cartoons. And YouTube comments. And on cable news. And on prime time cartoons when the episode gets political. Man, does this not look good for us.

I approve of this new direction the comic is taking. Keep it up with the calm rational discussion chaps.

Grey Carter:
Reasonable Comics For Reasonable People

A mild comic that won't hurt your tum tum.

Read Full Article

This is really pedantic and irrelevant, but once I spotted it, I just had to ask:

Why does the Strawman's magazine have a penguin of all things next to Weird Al?

Malty Milk Whistle:

ticklefist:
After the last one I guess some epic backpedaling was necessary.

Oh come on, this is as far from backpedaling as humanly possible.
It's cycling.
With a jet attached.
Whilst screaming "YOLO" at the top of your lungs.

Maybe it's going over my head. Last week's post equated a frustrating group of posters to a murderer. This one condemns such strawmanning. It's not self-referential and seems to be pointing the finger away from itself instead of toward it, but it's still quite the about face.

Agayek:

Why does the Strawman's magazine have a penguin of all things next to Weird Al?

The fact that it makes no sense is the perfect proof that it's exactly what had to be there. It is Weird Al we're talking about, after all.

To strips in a row I can't stop laughing. Critical Miss is by far my favourite part of the site. 6/100

Agayek:

Grey Carter:
Reasonable Comics For Reasonable People

A mild comic that won't hurt your tum tum.

Read Full Article

This is really pedantic and irrelevant, but once I spotted it, I just had to ask:

Why does the Strawman's magazine have a penguin of all things next to Weird Al?

Well, its about parody. Weird Al does parody, so I assume the penguin/duck/swan/birdthingy is somehow related to a noteworthy parody or series of parodies.

MarsAtlas:
Well, its about parody. Weird Al does parody, so I assume the penguin/duck/swan/birdthingy is somehow related to a noteworthy parody or series of parodies.

Yea, that's my assumption too, but I don't remember there being any penguins involved in any major parodies, so I was hoping Grey would chime in and tell me.

Or reveal that it put there for the sake of being pretty.

Either works really.

Edit:

ticklefist:
Maybe it's going over my head. Last week's post equated a frustrating group of posters to a murderer. This one calls out such strawmanning. It's not self-referential and seems to be pointing the finger away from itself instead of toward it, but it's still quite the about face.

1) It wasn't equating anything to murder. It was mocking them by taking their position and normal behavior to the logical extreme. This is known as satire and/or parody. It was drawing attention to the ridiculousness of their behavior, not condemning it as equal to murder.

Seeing such says a lot more about you than the comic.

2) Even if it had, that isn't a strawman. It's being self-righteous and an Appeal to Extremes fallacy, but it's not a strawman.

ticklefist:

Maybe it's going over my head. Last week's post equated a frustrating group of posters to a murderer. This one calls out such strawmanning. It's not self-referential and seems to be pointing the finger away from itself instead of toward it, but it's still quite the about face.

Actually, this comic is more along the lines of "Well people got upset over our last one, so we're just going to put a placeholder 'politically correct' thing here and use it to passively-aggressively mock people who took issue with our last one".

Thing is. If this comic was serious, it would have been awesome. Because it would drive the point home that level-headed discussion is needed, that clear communication is paramount, and that strawmen ineed need to lose employment. THAT IS AN ACTUAL, LEGITIMATE POINT.

But in the context of recent events, I can't take the comic seriously. It's a parody again, and again, it's a parody that's gone wrong and been misdirected. A bit like the "worst chiropractor ever" comic would have been funny if not burdened by the references, but the moment I figured out what it referenced, it suddenly stopped being funny and started being pretentious. Context is a bitch.

Of course word of the author might correct me, and tell me I'm wrong, and that he tried to make a serious point about the need for communication. In which case I will offer apologies for misinterpreting the comic. But if this is a parody directed at the people who took issue with the last one, it's just more self-gratifying, pretentious bullshit.

DVS BSTrD:
*Sigh* Another one selfishly living off the government benefits paid for by hard working Americans.
Thanks Obama.

Hey! Hey! You leave that strawman alone! He's worked his head off and what has he got? A bad back from all those beatings!

OT: This comic offends me because reasons.

...Not really, but I can definitely see people being bothered.

Remember when comics were about being amusing and not about fighting nonexistent enemies? What exactly is this in response to? The "shitstorm" the last comic generated? Except, there was no shitstorm. I mostly skipped through pages and skimmed the topic for it, but what I saw was mostly a lot of people predicting a shitstorm, one guy banned for a post that said the comic was flamebaiting and... yeah no, that's all the post said, a couple rational responses against the subject of the comic... and mostly a big old argument about the Zimmerman case. Guess what? The Zimmerman case is a COMPLEX THING. Of course it generates long discussions. That's not equivalent to a shitstorm.

I saw no rage generated from the last comic. Maybe there was an isolated piece or so of it that I missed from my cursory examination, but it sure didn't create any storms or stand out against the things I mentioned above.

Which leaves the question: What the hell is this a response to?

But whatever, the community seems to love it. And if these people need an "other" to hate, a nonexistent one is probably the most harmless one.

Lord Krunk:

Silent Protagonist:
I like to pretend this comic is a call for people to be more level-headed and reasonable when discussing issues, especially in the relatively trivial sphere of gaming. I know it's really a passive aggressive and snarky response to all the people who dared to be insulted and upset by their previous comic and the massive flaming thread that resulted from it, but I like to pretend it could be something more.

Part of what was frustrating about the "White Guy Defense force" comic is that such aggressive, dismissive, and insulting caricatures of different viewpoints or opinions like the ones found in that comic are already far too common in these discussions. They are a major part of why so many discussions devolve into pointless flame wars like the thread on last weeks comic. We need far more encouragement of the attitude of mutual respect that can bring forth actual discussion and growth found and subsequently mocked in this weeks comic.

This comic would have been brilliant if it wasn't for the subtext of "Oh well, people got insulted so I guess we won't try to do anything funny ever again." It's a shame.

Agreed. I just rolled my eyes at the last comic and moved on without responding, because I knew they were just trolling for views. This comic would have been clever if the last one was funny, and not agonizing for anyone other than manginas to read.

Are you being sarcastic? Or did you just seriously call me a Mangina. And quite a few of my friends. And all the people who liked last weeks episode.

Definition of Mangina:
mangina
Web definitions
A derisive term for a man with a pronounced feminine side, or a weak masculine side.
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mangina

Yeah. What the hell man.

Grey, if you are reading this, enough webcomic artists have turned the medium into a joke

Ok, I am leaning more towards sarcasm unless you mean to say that turning Webcomics into a joke is a bad thing, particularly webcomics like this one which exist to amuse.

by pulling this crap. I know you're better than this. The viewership might be down, but please have some integrity. Please don't jump the shark, if you haven't already.

(inb4 the next comic mocking that last statement)

That's all I really have to say.

All you had to say was "I am going to casually insult anyone who found last weeks comic funny". Awesome. Stay classy.

This weeks comic, whilst less entertaining then last weeks, still got a weak smile out of me. It is hard to beat last weeks comic though.

Agayek:

Seeing such says a lot more about you than the comic.

I wish this line of though was gone, purged, put to rest, exterminated and all other synonyms for "erased from history".

A person's opinion on one particular issue doesn't say much about what kind of person they are, unless said opinion is actually in the extreme ends (and "not liking an inflammatory piece of web content" isn't nearly extreme). People who disliked last week's comic aren't necessarily all scum, nor are people who liked it all necessarily good drinking buddies.

Plus, not only that, such line of logic creates contradictions the moment it's consistently applied. If getting offended proves people were "right about you"...well...I could employ that fallacy to take over the world. And I mean literally. I wouldn't even have to lift a finger to be rid of those who would stand in my way - a few words and a Batman gambit would do.

Reasonable people? On the INTERNET?


Tread softly, as we begin our search for the endangered and illusive Internet Reasonable Person, or Homo Penitus Irrationabile. It will be a long and arduous journey, we will encounter trolls and be mocked by them for no reason. We will encounter faux reasonables, who the unobservant will consider the real thing. Some believe that the true Reasonable is an extinct animal in this hostile environment of flame wars, trolls, and griefers, or even mythical. However, through time, skill, and effort, we shall locate the creature.

ticklefist:

Malty Milk Whistle:

ticklefist:
After the last one I guess some epic backpedaling was necessary.

Oh come on, this is as far from backpedaling as humanly possible.
It's cycling.
With a jet attached.
Whilst screaming "YOLO" at the top of your lungs.

Maybe it's going over my head. Last week's post equated a frustrating group of posters to a murderer. This one condemns such strawmanning. It's not self-referential and seems to be pointing the finger away from itself instead of toward it, but it's still quite the about face.

I think "the joke" is that perfectly reasonable discussion isn't funny. He's saying that if the last comic wasn't overblown the way it was it wouldn't be funny.

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