Good Riddance, Fred Phelps: 5 Pivotal Moments For LGBTs In Comics

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Vivi22:

Houseman:
"Good riddance"?
As in the earth is better off without him?

Isn't that what he thought about certain people?

The people he thought that about haven't spent their lives trying to make other people miserable and deny millions equal rights and protections under the law.

There's no hypocrisy in it if you hate the man for the right reasons. He chose to use his existence on this planet to actively make the lives of others worse. People like that actively detract from having a civil and equitable society for no other reason than they find a certain type of people icky because of how they were born, even when it doesn't affect anyone else directly. It's wrong to hate people for that reason; not to hate people for choosing to be ignorant, hateful fucks.

Allow me to disagree. Hate is always hate.

So you're saying your hate is right, his hate was wrong?

There is no hate that is right. Because hate is always wishing someone's misery. And wishing someone's misery is always for a**holes.

AzrealMaximillion:
snip

You are free to your views on Fred Phelps, and I never disputed that. I'm also free to mine. My point was never "we should all be celebrating the death of a human being," my point is there is going to be an emotional gradient, especially when it comes to people he or his awful family directly affected. Emotion is the antithesis of logic, for better and for worse. For those who were emotionally affected by the WBC people, many have enjoyed this, and while you may view that as immature or low, it's just as human as your reaction of empathy.

RossaLincoln:
I'm celebrating the fact that his hateful legacy failed. Though, and I swear I don't mean to offend, I have no problem considering people who aren't bigots morally superior to people who are, nor do I think it's in bad taste to comment on the legacy of hateful bigots by pointing out how they failed, and hilariously so.

Braedan:

Major_Tom:
We celebrated when The Wicked Witch Thatcher died, so we can sure as hell do it for this asshole. Enough with holier-than-thou bullshit.

Here here!

Get off your high horses people. An asshole died, and I'm going to drink a beer to celebrate the world becoming a better place.

Here's something I learned after reading an article that references it on another site and looking it up. Fred Phelps worked as a lawyer. In fact, he worked on a lot of Civil Right's cases and was even given an award from the Bonner Springs Branch of the NAACP for his work. He also sued President Ronald Reagen for appointing an ambassador to the Vatican on Separation of Church and State Grounds, though it was dismissed.

I am in no way advocating for his Westboro Baptist Church (truth be told I hate them, it's a sad day when you make the KKK look good). However, that doesn't mean he isn't entitled to his opinion and nothing he did, including the picketing of the funeral, was illegal. The Supreme Court even upheld their right to do so, which I agree with, regardless of my feelings on the actions themselves.

I am not unhappy to see him die, nor do I dance on his grave. At the end of the day, he was just a man. Like any man he holds his own views, some of which people may agree with or not. I happen to disagree with his stance on Gay Rights and wish he would have stopped picketing funerals.

You give him far more power than he ever actually held in the Gay Rights debate by hating him. He never had any actual impact on it. If anything, he probably helped Gay Rights by his actions.

The man died. Leave him in Peace.

RossaLincoln:

I swear I don't mean to offend the commenter to whom I was replying, meaning I wasn't trying to be a jerk to that person, as was obvious from context. I was not saying my intent wasn't to offend people who think Fred Phelps was a swell guy.

Also, Fred Phelps was permanently disbarred after waging a campaign of sexist harassment against a court reporter who was like 5 seconds late providing some documents to him. He called her a slut on the stand when he sued her, and ultimately perjured himself by providing false evidence in his appeals. So much for his convictions.

you might not have meant to offend (for example) AzrealMaximillion specifically, but if he is offended by the fact you're celebrating someone's death (and you are), then your article is offensive to him. There's no miscommunication here. you're glad Phelps is dead, you wrote an article about it, then somone got offended about your article celebrating Phelp's death. The thing that is offensive is the message and intention of article.

You accepted someone might take offense, and decided your need to share your happiness about phelp's death was of greater importance than the feelings of someone who feels celebrating anyone's death is tasteless. Take some responsibility for the things you write.

Regarding his disbarment: Nobody's saying he was a nice guy. But sexual harassment and picketing funerals are in the balance against fighting a hostile and racist justice system for the right of black people to go to school.
To me, fighting against the racism of an actively hostile society is more admirable than standing around with some signs is reprehensible.

Reading anything about the life of this man you get the impression he needed something to fight against. Be it Jim Crow, 'the gay agenda', the military, the American government or all of western civilisation. He had his convictions, and he wanted people to oppose him. Some of the things he opposed , i oppose, most things he opposed, i support. but however that may be, he deserves credit for the good he did in his life, as much as he deserves condemnation for the evil.

Vivi22:

Rebel_Raven:
Still, part of me feels bad a guy died, no matter what his views were.

I've got no problem feeling good about his death. Fact is, there are people in the world that are absolutely horrible, actively choose to make the world a worse place with their time here, and are worthy of complete derision and shouldn't be given a modicum of respect. He falls into that category. His existence dragged everyone down and I look forward to his little group continuing to slowly dwindle as the rest of the world moves on and leaves them behind to die as ignorant and hateful as they choose to be.

Yeah, his legacy doesn't leave him heavily grieved to say the least. I'm aware of the damage he did, though the LGBT would be hated with or without him, but wouldn't it have been better if he changed his ways before he died? Sure it'd have been unlikely.

Believe me, WBC might dwindle, but, well, to put it bluntly, the LGBT community is far from being accepted, especially when people are told to hate them by something/one they believe strongly in. The WBC doesn't hold a monopoly on hatred of others.

I get why he's hated, believe me. I'm not a fan of him either.

It's okay to celebrate someones death, but not disagree with peoples sexuality. That's a crime worthy of death! Death for everyone! Death all around! But don'tcha be hating on mah sexuality, now. That there is offensive! So offensive I WANT YOU TO DIE!

.... Ugh.

Disgusting. Weird. Perverted.... That's what humans are. We sit around and think we're so much better than everyone around us, but we've all done terrible things that we're ashamed of... luckiy most of us escape public scrutiny for our crimes, our moments of evil.

In our fear of what we've done, we scurry in little bands and clash glasses together, lynching people so that we can feel better about ourselves... surely, that person is so much worse than us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMT1Ig38Buc

We should celebrate his death and spit on his memory. The man was trash and moral pussy-footing around that is doing a disservice to the hundreds of people who suffered under his biggotry. Let people take a measure of joy in knowing that the world is a slightly better place now that he's gone so that we can move on t forgetting him.

Good riddance is the right term to commemorate the passing of Fred Phelps. Had he died some thirty years ago, he would have died as a great champion of civil rights, but he chose another path in his late life. I would never picket his funeral, but I see no sin in criticizing him in the media after his death. Commemorating his memory means remembering all of his actions, not just the noble ones. The legacy he tried to build during his late life will crumble to dust together with his buried coffin, and the world will be a better place for it.

I may be wrong, but hadn't that guy protested funerals in the past or some such? I don't feel bad about celebrating his - personally, I'm just of the opinion that disrespecting others who have died makes you completely fair game to be disrespected when you do.

While some of the things that are being said make me feel somewhat uncomfortable, I don't condemn anyone for celebrating his death. I'd probably feel the same way if the WBC had been more real to me. However, once everyone has their celebrations I think it would be for the best for everyone to let that hate go. He's dead, he can't spread his twisted ideas any more, and holding on to that hate won't do any one any good. Let his memory fade into obscurity.

RossaLincoln:
I swear I don't mean to offend

In the future, when you want to avoid offense, I'd recommend not saying good riddance of a man whose corpse is barely cold.
If the Westboro Baptists are most famous for disrespecting funerals, then you have quite deliberately set yourself on the same moral level.

The amount of righteousness in this thread is repulsive.

ChristopherT:
when Hitler left this world the war soon ended

Not quite, because Japan wasn't all that impressed and had to be nuked.

Zira:

Isn't it a bit like saying "let's bring all nazis in concentration camps and torture them"? Isn't it.... becoming the bigotism you're supposedly hating?

There was a plan by Jews to kill millions by poisoning tap water systems in major West German cities. Yes, it was after the war.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/26/second.world.war

He spoke passionately, invoking Psalm 94, in which God promises that he shall deal with the enemies of the people of Israel: "He will repay them for their iniquity and wipe them out for their wickedness." This, Kovner suggested, was the fate that should be meted out to the Germans.

Btw, Phelps subscribed to a similarily fundamentalist form of Judeochristianity.

Kovner sought moral backing for his project, travelling to Palestine to consult the leaders of the Jewish state-in-waiting. He met Chaim Weizmann, who would become Israel's first president and who had begun his career (at Manchester University) as a research chemist. Once Weizmann heard from Kovner the horrors of the Holocaust, he could mount no resistance: he gave his blessing to the Avengers, even offering them help in acquiring the poison. (Several sources suggest Weizmann approved only Plan B, rather than the more deadly, and arbitrary, Plan A.)

Geez, guys. You're not helping your reputation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_poisoning#Medieval_accusations_against_Jews

Yet Plan A never happened. Kovner, with two canisters of poison in his backpack, was arrested by British military police while on a ship bound for Europe: he had been betrayed. The Avengers came to believe that the highest echelons of the Zionist hierarchy had heard of Plan A and were determined to thwart it, not least because they feared such a massive slaughter would fatally undermine the moral claim Zionism was making after the Holocaust - that as a people who had endured near-annihilation, the Jews had won the right to a home of their own.

earnestp:
I say we should celebrate his death EVERY YEAR, and we should do it by celebrating the ways in which our society has become more tolerant. Make this post the first of such celebrations.

You do realize that in doing so you'd be carrying on his legacy of hate by giving the WBC a yearly dose of attention. Attention that would lead to people hearing their hate.

So you'd be helping their cause in essence.

Bravo, you've found me another reason why celebrating someone's death is asinine.

Edit:

First, no amount of good work that Phelps did early in his life mitigates the work that he did later.

Tell that to the people who's lives he saved by representing them in the Jim Crow era when no one else would. It's not about mitigating the mans works. It's about looking at his life as a whole.

The irony of it all: One of the first times I've seen LGBTs in comics discussed here in any sort of positive light, and it's ultimately only done so you - and I suppose all of us as well, considering the comments - can do a metaphorical fandango on someone's grave while the body is still warm enough.

I mean, as much as I disagreed with his opinions and such, I can't help but keep thinking that he's a human being. I'm not asking that we all suddenly morn him as if he's a great man, but we don't all need to line up and continue shitting on his headstone before the body's even cold, surely. A modicum of decorum is all I ask, and hell, you don't even need to do that. Continue calling him a hateful bigot if you want; he defiantly did enough to earn that credit.
But we almost definitely Don't need to start dragging LGBT representation through this dirt as some sort of "har har fuck you" kinda thing. Now I can't help but think that my thinking of these comics and the good things they did is going to be forever tempered by the thought that someone fought to the death against them and people waved them in his barely-dead face going "HAR HAR YOU FUCKING FAILED YOU IDIOTIC CUNTFLAP! SUCK ON THE DEVIL'S PITCHFORK YOU HATEFUL SCUM!"

I'm not asking that everyone suddenly change your emotions: That's impossible. I'm not even saying that not keeping quiet is a bad thing to do. It's more that keeping quiet is a good thing to do, if you get me - the more moral action. I say again: Not keeping quiet, spewing hatred and bile at a man you hate and feel deserves bile? Perfectly acceptable. Understandable. But rising above that? Considering him just, in the end, a man worthy of at least peaceful rest? Well, that just feels more right to me. Even if he did cause problems to others, it's ultimately something he wasn't 100% in control of: His beliefs, and the passion he had for those beliefs, and the actions he took because of said passion, it all seems like it was almost inevitable. He's not a monster: more a lost man.

Zeterai:
I may be wrong, but hadn't that guy protested funerals in the past or some such? I don't feel bad about celebrating his - personally, I'm just of the opinion that disrespecting others who have died makes you completely fair game to be disrespected when you do.

And I freely encourage people who hate me to make fun of me when I die if my life's work is a complete failure. Of course, I won't have spent my life devoted to the eradication of rights for an entire group of people, but ok.

In this thread: People who normally claim that morality is relative suddenly claim that a moral standard exists in order to justify their burning hate.

RossaLincoln:
Good Riddance, Fred Phelps: 5 Pivotal Moments For LGBTs In Comics

To mark the passing of a bigot, let's look at how gay people have fared on the pages of American comic books.

Read Full Article

I owe you a belated appology. I had no idea the extent of just how horrible this group and its leaders are at the time I posted. Anyway, disregard any and all criticism - constructive as I intended it to be - in my previous post. My apologies.

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