Rape Games Banned in Japan

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Malygris:
Rape Games Banned in Japan

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You should probably include a link to the Rape Games are no longer banned.

I can't believe you all think this is sick, when you cold bloodedly kill hundreds of people every day. This is worse, how?

wolfshrimp:

Don't think I trust that because the American porn industry is MASSIVE and they will try and find a way to boost their sales and widen their means.

While you shouldn't trust everything on the internet, scientific study or not, that article cites quite a number of scientific studies (although I haven't bothered to check them yet) and I'm not sure the Japanese National Research Institute of Police Science and USA HU's Department of Anatomy and Reproductive Biology are too involved in the American porn industry.
Also note that it's a study of Japanese sex crime rates, not American.

wolfshrimp:

I went and looked up the game on wikipedia and found more links to stuff about Japan. How messed up is a country where there are women-only cars on the metro because there are so many weirdos feeling up chicks?

While the number of train molesters in Japan is truly terrifying, the rape rates are much MUCH smaller than in US, Canada or UK! In fact judging by those figures each of those countries is much more deserving of the title RAPELANDIA than Japan!

I've seen some really disgusting and mind-wrecking sexually explicit material come from Japan and each time I'm reminded of it a little bit of my soul shrivels up and dies...

But can you ignore the facts?

gof22:

Kiutu:
Ok, I guess -I- will be the first to be against this.
Mostly it annoys me cause it seems more like people whining and being huge babies. Now, I know Japan does not have our government and laws (some we put on em yes, but not all) but still. Its like, why is this allowed but this not when it is very similar. So is games where girls are killed gonna be banned too? What about men/boys? Now yes, obviously few if any are playing these games for anything aside from sexual release, but for all we know it is a better outlet for peole with such fantasies. This is just like violence in gaming and is not going to make people who would not already do it start raping people or stalking them.
Equality Now, based on this they seem PETA-like. (Not a good thing)
Thats my view on this.

Death and rape are wrong no matter how someone spins it. The only difference is that death is more accepted than rape. Either way someone loses something but I would much rather die and keep my dignity. Than lose it to rape.

Not really. I am not comparing Deah to Rape. Im comparing Killing/Murder to Rape. Death would be comparable to Sex in this way. And I would rather be raped and live with the emotional scar and than die too young. Just because YOU would rather die does not mean everyone would. Atleast 1 person doesn't.

Kiutu:

gof22:

Kiutu:
Ok, I guess -I- will be the first to be against this.
Mostly it annoys me cause it seems more like people whining and being huge babies. Now, I know Japan does not have our government and laws (some we put on em yes, but not all) but still. Its like, why is this allowed but this not when it is very similar. So is games where girls are killed gonna be banned too? What about men/boys? Now yes, obviously few if any are playing these games for anything aside from sexual release, but for all we know it is a better outlet for peole with such fantasies. This is just like violence in gaming and is not going to make people who would not already do it start raping people or stalking them.
Equality Now, based on this they seem PETA-like. (Not a good thing)
Thats my view on this.

Death and rape are wrong no matter how someone spins it. The only difference is that death is more accepted than rape. Either way someone loses something but I would much rather die and keep my dignity. Than lose it to rape.

Not really. I am not comparing Deah to Rape. Im comparing Killing/Murder to Rape. Death would be comparable to Sex in this way. And I would rather be raped and live with the emotional scar and than die too young. Just because YOU would rather die does not mean everyone would. Atleast 1 person doesn't.

They should have the player buy a hooker and play rape games with the hooker. That way rape is not really happening. It is willing submission to rape games. Why play a rape game anyway? Why not just play a hentai game? There is still sex in it.

Why would someone buy a rape game anyway. Maybe its a police operation where they can easily catch rapists. Soon they will release a game where you have to molest little children.

Well, how else am I supposed to learn?! Geez, the nerve of some people!

=P

Grigori361:

USA2018:
I suppose that this game "normalize[s] and promote[s] sexual violence against women and girls" in much the same way that the Grand Theft Auto series normalized and promoted drug dealing and vehicular homicide... to be succinct IT'S A F***ING GAME!!!!! IT IS NOT REAL F***ING LIFE!!!!!. (all this being said, i believe all rapists shound be forcibly made into eunuchs (no more male genitalia)).

what about female rapists? it DOES happen :P.

hmmm... i honestly haven't thought about that... how in the heck would a woman rape a man anyway?

Allan Foe:

wolfshrimp:

Don't think I trust that because the American porn industry is MASSIVE and they will try and find a way to boost their sales and widen their means.

While you shouldn't trust everything on the internet, scientific study or not, that article cites quite a number of scientific studies (although I haven't bothered to check them yet) and I'm not sure the Japanese National Research Institute of Police Science and USA HU's Department of Anatomy and Reproductive Biology are too involved in the American porn industry.
Also note that it's a study of Japanese sex crime rates, not American.

wolfshrimp:

I went and looked up the game on wikipedia and found more links to stuff about Japan. How messed up is a country where there are women-only cars on the metro because there are so many weirdos feeling up chicks?

While the number of train molesters in Japan is truly terrifying, the rape rates are much MUCH smaller than in US, Canada or UK! In fact judging by those figures each of those countries is much more deserving of the title RAPELANDIA than Japan!

I've seen some really disgusting and mind-wrecking sexually explicit material come from Japan and each time I'm reminded of it a little bit of my soul shrivels up and dies...

But can you ignore the facts?

wow... i was gonna harp on you for quoting wikipedia, but then followed the link to the UN site... shocking stats. maybe it's because you can buy used panties and suchlike from vending machines i dunno. (edit: just double checked, couldn't find USA anywhere on the "Total Prosecuted for Rape" chart (Chart 6.8) might wanna double check and make sure you're using the right chart...) (edit of edit: ok, japan beats us (doesn't sound right but i'll go with it) on reported rapes, and i really need to read all possible sources of info...)

As a woman, I'm relieved. As a gamer, I'm perplexed, and a little unsure if my feelings as a person are perhaps a knee-jerk in reaction to "Rape" and gaming content. Lemme explain;

I had no idea that there were "Rape" games sold legally in japan. I knew there were hentai interactive games, but no idea that any featured explicitly rape. Rape is a scary subject for women, and for any that knows a victim of rape, it can enhance the terror. For women that have been victimized in that way... well there's really no comparison. It could be said that any effort to remove the normalization of rape and mistreatment of women is a good thing. Morality prevails.

The devils advocate and gamer in me knows that the same argument can be addressed for violent video games. Violence in murder/death/killing is inarguably worse than rape (though plenty of women may/would disagree), yet the outcry there is marginal.

It's a complicated topic. One could go on and on concerning it. Me? The woman in me wins out. I'm glad that this pile of crap and others like it are banned.

Abedeus:

Molten Water:
Hmm how come no one has talked about "THE PATH" its about rape too...all the girls get raped and KILLED in that game.after seeing all this stuff online i went and downloaded the game 2 see what its all about: its some dude who get caught doing some perverted thhing to some gorl on a train so a girl reprts him.so the guy goes on a vengeance mission to rape all the 3 people in the famil:the mom and her 2 daughters.and its pretty much some weird scenes in a train where you touch the girl and then you rape them in some place.THIS IS THE ONLY RAPE PART.after that you actually have consensual sex with them in locations.i didnt see what all the fuss was about.its good for a wank but nothing more or less.i didnt feel like going out and raping someone walking about...much the same as i dont feel like killing someone when i get out after playin CoD4.this has been made a big enough deal aldready and has been proven to be fake(The allegations.theres another thread about it) so chill aldready.and it says if your not 18 turn it off and stuff.it is a restricted game no doubt so dont give it to kids.no need 4 banning it.

Sorry, but rape is illegal, pictures of raping are illegal, even fictional. Images of killing aren't illegal if they are illegal, because then every history book with pictures would get banned.

Why would anyone ever defend rape games?

Why would anyone defend them? Did you miss the last 10 pages in this thread?

Oh wait, it's you again -_-...

I love how big a deal has been made out of this, when, effectively, nothing is happening. The EOCS (japanesse equivalent of the ESRB) has "banned" rape based porn games.

Current Situation: Porn Games don't get reviewed by EOCS/ESRB, because they're Porn. They know what they're going to be rated, so they ignore the EOCS/ESRB (which is voluntary anyway) and just slap 18+ on their games.

Result of the Ban: Rape-based Porn Games will continue to just slap 18+ on their boxes by themselves, and sell the game anyway.

The "Ban" is just a PR stunt by the EOCS. It makes it so they can say, "See? Look, we -hate- rape and all things based on rape. And rape is bad, so that means we're awesome." It won't have any effect on the creation, or sale of rape games.

Like an Iain Banks novel, you cannot fight the culture.

Another country's cultural products are their business, it should not be our place to attempt to control or regulate them. Follow the prime directive or be a cultural imperialist, editing the culture of those you deem 'sick'.

Given the already large amount of influence the Western nation-states have had on Japan, I say we leave this issue to the Japanese public, and authorities if there is seen to be a problem on their end.

Also, given it is supposedly 10-20 percent of the Japanese gaming market it sounds like a really good idea to further damage their economy even if anything could be done. And that is a big if.

How to reduce the demand when it has grown so large? You cannot fight the culture. Accept it, rape games are here to stay.

icnfde:

Abedeus:

Molten Water:
Hmm how come no one has talked about "THE PATH" its about rape too...all the girls get raped and KILLED in that game.after seeing all this stuff online i went and downloaded the game 2 see what its all about: its some dude who get caught doing some perverted thhing to some gorl on a train so a girl reprts him.so the guy goes on a vengeance mission to rape all the 3 people in the famil:the mom and her 2 daughters.and its pretty much some weird scenes in a train where you touch the girl and then you rape them in some place.THIS IS THE ONLY RAPE PART.after that you actually have consensual sex with them in locations.i didnt see what all the fuss was about.its good for a wank but nothing more or less.i didnt feel like going out and raping someone walking about...much the same as i dont feel like killing someone when i get out after playin CoD4.this has been made a big enough deal aldready and has been proven to be fake(The allegations.theres another thread about it) so chill aldready.and it says if your not 18 turn it off and stuff.it is a restricted game no doubt so dont give it to kids.no need 4 banning it.

Sorry, but rape is illegal, pictures of raping are illegal, even fictional. Images of killing aren't illegal if they are illegal, because then every history book with pictures would get banned.

Why would anyone ever defend rape games?

Why would anyone defend them? Did you miss the last 10 pages in this thread?

Oh wait, it's you again -_-...

So wait, you are not defending rape games? Then what this thread is about? That someone wants to ban rape games - where you don't just watch raped girls, you are raping them.

Abedeus:

Molten Water:
Hmm how come no one has talked about "THE PATH" its about rape too...all the girls get raped and KILLED in that game.after seeing all this stuff online i went and downloaded the game 2 see what its all about: its some dude who get caught doing some perverted thhing to some gorl on a train so a girl reprts him.so the guy goes on a vengeance mission to rape all the 3 people in the famil:the mom and her 2 daughters.and its pretty much some weird scenes in a train where you touch the girl and then you rape them in some place.THIS IS THE ONLY RAPE PART.after that you actually have consensual sex with them in locations.i didnt see what all the fuss was about.its good for a wank but nothing more or less.i didnt feel like going out and raping someone walking about...much the same as i dont feel like killing someone when i get out after playin CoD4.this has been made a big enough deal aldready and has been proven to be fake(The allegations.theres another thread about it) so chill aldready.and it says if your not 18 turn it off and stuff.it is a restricted game no doubt so dont give it to kids.no need 4 banning it.

Sorry, but rape is illegal, pictures of raping are illegal, even fictional. Images of killing aren't illegal if they are illegal, because then every history book with pictures would get banned.

Why would anyone ever defend rape games?

Mostly on the principle "nothing should be censored unless it directly hurts someone", so FICTIONAL rape shouldn't be censored.

incubus42:

I am sorry, but anybody who gets turned on by pressing buttons and therefore causes a virtual (yes VIRTUAL but still..) 11 years old girl getting violated in such a way, should plug out his computer, take two metal paper clips and put them into the power outlet without using gloves.

Yes I know that there is something called personal freedom. But as soon as a person shows interest in how it looks like when 11 year old girls get sexually penetrates, bleeds and cries, there is something wrong with that person.

No, it just means they have a sick fetish they have to keep far away from the real world. Just like you prolly pictured yourself killing someone/thing at some point and didn't, or at the very least wanted to punch them real hard in the jaw. If you think I'm an idiot for this post there's a good chance you're proving my point right now.

incubus42:

Clarkarius:
To be honest just thinking about a game of this genre sickens me and I am surprised that no one has stepped in sooner to put an end to them.

I totally agree with you. It's simply sick.
Simulating an act, in with you not only physically but also mentally abuse a female.
I think that's a point were personal freedom ends.

off-note:
Every raper should be sliced into two pieces by a big rusty iron bar impacting his ass.

the grammar nazi in me says rapist, the rest of me tells it to shut up and concentrate on the rest of your post.

People do that all the time, ever hear of BDSM? Also, I love how you say "abuse a female" , like no matter what you do to a guy it's fine but once you do it to a chick you're crossing the line.

I think that being the point where personal freedom ends is ridiculous. A point where no one is harmed.

bobski:
wtf. why do these games even exist lol.

fetishes. Also that lol at the end makes you look like even more of a noob. Not that you used it mind you, the way you used it.

Rylian:
I despise the games in this genre and the subject material. I played on once out of curiosity. Awful.

Know what I like even less?
People who try to get something banned because THEY don't like it. Yeah, it's sick, but we're adults and we don't need the God damned morality police.

Banning this genre begins a trip down a slippery slope that is, in all honesty, more frightening than the fact that people actually play and enjoy such things.

I agree with everything after the first paragraph, and I'd play this game if it seemed more.......I don't know what the word is but if it looked better I'd prolly play it. Yes, I'm agreeing something I'd probably enjoy is sick and frightening.

nikomas1:

gof22:

imburke:
but this is fictional, you make it sound like a real life event, this is about a game in wchich theyre are no feelings, just animations, and what te player chooses to do, there is no dignity in a game like this already lol

They should at least have the women fight back.

What, so people could go and say "You Violently rape people in this game"?

....so it could appeal to it's audience.

Clarkarius:
This sickens me, so it should be banned

StarStruckStrumpets:

nova18:
Its odd though, Im guessing that most of us spend a lot of time playing "murder simulators" and we are dead against people trying to ban those, because they dont offend us.

Wheras a rape game offends us so we agree to it being banned.

Good news though.

Japan's culture is completely different to our own. There are huge shops in Japan that [b]only[/i] sell hentai. They just don't find those things socially unacceptable. It's good to know that they're banned though...sex games and rape games are two very different things.

Not in anyway the law should care about. They're both games. They're both made for people to masturbate. Sure, one's immoral if translated into real life but so are so many other games.

AngloDoom:
For all the people saying "it's an outlet for people who want to rape", I can see it as a somewhat valid point.

However, I've read about this game before and every time you rape one of the women involved in the game there is a chance she will become pregnant. If you don't have the time, money, or whatever you are required by the game to have to forced her to abort the child, then you lose the game.

Now, I'm all for aborting a foetus that was spawned through rape, but really now, is that appropriate anywhere? Yes, I know, different culture, different standards, but can anyone seriously say with a straight face that they brought a copy of GTA to stop themselves from murdering random people, stealing cars, picking up prostitutes, and going on drug-raids? The excuse 'it stops me from raping people' is pretty bullshitty for 99% of people in the world; and I doubt many companies would make games for the 1% borderline rapists, rather than to sell a game which celebrates women's vulnerability.

No, no one bought a copy of GTA for that reason, but it may have lessened frustration that could've killed someone.

And , no one bought a rape game just to stop themselves from raping people, they bought it because they have a rape fetish, which is now more satisfied from the game.

i find murder and torture till death to be far worse than rape yet those things are in bout 90% of all games made, the last 10% are games by popcap.

Mario jumping on Goombas might technically be murder, but I really wouldn't say it's worse than a rape game where the girls cry and bleed. The fact that you think 90% of games contain murder really just goes to show what kind of games you play. Even ignoring the fact that self-defense is not murder, what about games where the enemies are robots or are already dead (ghosts/zombies/ect)? That's not really murder. I wouldn't say it's murder to kill non-intelligent life like monsters or certain kinds of aliens, either. What about games where most enemies aren't really killed like Donkey Kong Country or Earthbound, or games like Metal Gear Solid 4 where you're actually rewarded for trying to take the non-violent way out? What about sports and puzzle games? Hell, even fighting games rarely involve murder.

hmmm... i honestly haven't thought about that... how in the heck would a woman rape a man anyway?

Watch the movie 40 Days and 40 Nights for an example. They don't treat it like rape, but it's pretty undeniable that it's what happened. For an example where you don't have to watch a movie: imagine a woman ties a drunk married man to a bed and then strips. He's turned on by her and gets an erection, but if he were free he would get the hell out of there. He isn't, so she has sex with him against his will. Blackmailing someone into having sex with you is also legally rape, which is more a more likely scenario. Then of course there's statutory rape, which is by far the largest category of rape committed by women. Sticking your fingers in a man's ass against his will would also be considered rape in some places. A woman could also coerce a very young child into something like oral sex, which would still be considered rape. It's much rarer than man-on-woman rape, but it does happen. It's very under-reported, though, because men who try to report having been raped are often laughed out of the police station. I recall one report of a man who was raped by a woman and called the police only to have her claim she was the one raped when they got there. Then they arrested him.

Woman can also rape other women. Mostly for power, I imagine, since unless threats are employed I don't see how a woman could force another woman to pleasure her.

ontherisess:

AngloDoom:
For all the people saying "it's an outlet for people who want to rape", I can see it as a somewhat valid point.

However, I've read about this game before and every time you rape one of the women involved in the game there is a chance she will become pregnant. If you don't have the time, money, or whatever you are required by the game to have to forced her to abort the child, then you lose the game.

Now, I'm all for aborting a foetus that was spawned through rape, but really now, is that appropriate anywhere? Yes, I know, different culture, different standards, but can anyone seriously say with a straight face that they brought a copy of GTA to stop themselves from murdering random people, stealing cars, picking up prostitutes, and going on drug-raids? The excuse 'it stops me from raping people' is pretty bullshitty for 99% of people in the world; and I doubt many companies would make games for the 1% borderline rapists, rather than to sell a game which celebrates women's vulnerability.

Then again, I have strong opinions on the subject of rape. If people feel this is clouding rational judgement, please feel free to correct anything that I've said that just sounds stupid.

1% of rapist is a LOT of people. And even if it didn't stop anyone raping whos arsed? It's not going to encourage rape some people enjoy this sort of thing. It's not harming ANYONE AT ALL so let them do it.

Yet, by allowing it, whether we like it or not, we are basically saying "we agree with this".

I don't believe material which shows an eight-year-old girl, crying, as you as the player shove a virtual cock into her vagina until she bleeds, show be allowed. There's plenty of porn and hentai of such things, so it's not like these games are the only output for these sort of urges.

Also, I think that this is much more likely to encourage people to imitate than some games. Yes, we all know about GTA and it's apparent links to killings which are all very weak connections. However, not many people have access to guns, have the balls to steal a car in broad daylight, or to kill. Killing is, despite what people make out, against our nature for the most part, unless for self-defence, revenge, or similar reasons. However, men are programmed to be strong and domineering, and are more likely to rape than murder. All you need is a weak victim, then you can perform it. You don't need a sawn-off shotgun.

While I don't believe that this game will turn everyone who plays it into a rapist, I can't help but think that it's a damned-sight more likely to make people imitate its actions than GTA; and as such it takes a step toward normalising rape.

I know it's fun for half the people on this forum to take the "I'm cool, alternative, against the general opinion, and Yahtzee rolled in one!" route to express their 'individuality', but if anyone can make a convincing argument to why games whose sole purpose is to show women, or young girls, being raped to allow the person to wank themselves into contentment is the right thing to do, then perhaps I'll be more open to the subject.

And before people say "murder is worse than rape" and "there's lots of murder in games", the fact is that Man-Hunt got a lot of shit for pretty much instructing the player on the best way to kill someone with easily obtainable objects, and this game (from several reviews I have viewed before forming this opinion) seems to show an admittedly exaggerate, but still detailed way on how to rape someone young and easy to intimidate.

For fuck's sake, the game even ends with you raping all the girls so much they begin to like it. The moral of this tale? Girls don't mind rape! It's just them playing hard to get!

That's all I'm saying on this subject.

AngloDoom:

I know it's fun for half the people on this forum to take the "I'm cool, alternative, against the general opinion, and Yahtzee rolled in one!" route to express their 'individuality', but if anyone can make a convincing argument to why games whose sole purpose is to show women, or young girls, being raped to allow the person to wank themselves into contentment is the right thing to do, then perhaps I'll be more open to the subject.

Let's see, the game hurts no one (digital people don't count) and it allows the player to wank. I don't see anything wrong with that.

AngloDoom:

Yet, by allowing it, whether we like it or not, we are basically saying "we agree with this".

No, we're not. Idiots will interpret it that way, and I'm really against having to bend over backwards because an idiot will take me standing straight as offensive.

AngloDoom:
Yet, by allowing it, whether we like it or not, we are basically saying "we agree with this".

I repeat myself: As Voltaire said, "I may despise what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

"I know it's fun for half the people on this forum to take the "I'm cool, alternative, against the general opinion, and Yahtzee rolled in one!" route to express their 'individuality', but if anyone can make a convincing argument to why games whose sole purpose is to show women, or young girls, being raped to allow the person to wank themselves into contentment is the right thing to do, then perhaps I'll be more open to the subject."

Then my counterargument is how you're supposed to discern rape "as part of gameplay" vs rape "as goal" i.e. the difference between killing enemies in Half Life vs Manhunt. Furthermore, you weaseled yourself out of stating a definitive stance on your own opinion on whether murder is correct when it's the only goal.

So what is it? Should murder simulators be banned too? If so where do we draw the line for that?

gof22:

imburke:
but this is fictional, you make it sound like a real life event, this is about a game in wchich theyre are no feelings, just animations, and what te player chooses to do, there is no dignity in a game like this already lol

They should at least have the women fight back.

You seem to be mistaken about the situation of the game. It's not really feasible for the women to fight back. The first girl is overpowered because of how young she is versus her attacker, beyond that, the other two women are blackmailed into position. Ultimately, the story mode ends with the faceless protagonist having all three women agree to become his sex slaves.
The closest this game comes to any of the girls "fighting back" is an ending where the protagonist is killed for impregnating one of the women.

zoozilla:

G-Mang:

it's also interesting to note that Japan has a very low rape rate in relation to most other nations.

This is a very important point.

Most arguments for the ban revolve around the idea that these games promote rape. Statistics don't support that fact. The rape rate in the US is more than 15 times higher than Japan's.

icnfde:

I'm surprised most people ignored this. A country that legalizes "rape games" has the least amount of rape per capita, and a country with one of the highest rape statistics in the world is trying to enforce their laws on them. Perhaps "Equality Now" should look into their own backyard before attacking the foreign market? (Most of these games aren't even able to be sold internationally).

Sort of repeating Xshu here, but - I wouldn't take those statistics at face value. They're official statistics, yes, but only of reported crimes. So many rape cases go unreported because women feel powerless, or that there's nothing that can be done anyway. I can only imagine this would be even more so in a country that, as already pointed out in this thread, women aren't as empowered as in other countries. IMHO, it's not something you can get a definite statistic on.

I won't add anymore as it would just be repeating the same points once again.

Its notable that america and canada are actualy the highest on that list...

meisnewbie:
"I know it's fun for half the people on this forum to take the "I'm cool, alternative, against the general opinion, and Yahtzee rolled in one!" route to express their 'individuality', but if anyone can make a convincing argument to why games whose sole purpose is to show women, or young girls, being raped to allow the person to wank themselves into contentment is the right thing to do, then perhaps I'll be more open to the subject."

Then my counterargument is how you're supposed to discern rape "as part of gameplay" vs rape "as goal" i.e. the difference between killing enemies in Half Life vs Manhunt. Furthermore, you weaseled yourself out of stating a definitive stance on your own opinion on whether murder is correct when it's the only goal.

So what is it? Should murder simulators be banned too? If so where do we draw the line for that?

Wow, third time the forum error'd when I tried to type my reply. Excuse me if it's rushed; I'm tired.

Anyway, I didn't mean to weasel out of any argument there; just something I skipped over without thinking. Thanks for pointing it out anyway, I don't want to walk away after only giving half an opinion.

Okay, not as refined as my last post *grumble*, so I'll just cut to the chase in this one.

I've never encountered a game in which the player takes a person, ties them up, and controls every action of pain they inflict upon that person. That is to say, you never get torture simulators, where you are given a large amount of tools to use on a character who is unable to resist, and you take pleasure in causing them hurt and pain; you hear them cry and see them squirm as you put them through simulated agony for amusement. This is how RapleLay is different from your example of, say, Half-Life.

In Half-Life, you are given nameless, faceless 'Baddies' to take down. They are obstacles to your goal. You press a button, a gun flashes, they sometimes go "ARGH" and other times they go "ARGH" and limp, but most of the time they just slump to the ground. You don't control Freeman as he runs in close, ties them up, and use the cursor to slowly jam bamboo up their fingernails while beating them with a flail. The enemies are nuisances that stay in your way until you explode, shoot, or crowbar them.

Murder in games is fine, it's been fine for ages. We love to have epic fights and battles to the death, we always have, that's why we had arena's full of gladiators and that's why a lot of people would support that nowadays so long as everyone was consenting. Hell, even rape in games is fine if it is used for an objective; you show how evil Baddy X is by showing him (without being graphic for the sake of perversion) rape someone, or just sometimes imply he does through camera, speech, whatever. That's fine, rape is such a universal 'no-no' that it is a great way of making you hate a character. It's been used in games before, no-doubt, but if you were to control these sequences, to watch each action take place, to painfully rape a character, to hear their screams and protests, and watch the tears roll down their eyes, then I'd be against it.

The difference is that one is used as an objective, or road to an objective. The other is celebrating the suffering of a character. Yes, I know, it's virtual and it is causing no harm to that big ol' lump of programming, but why does it even need to be there?

Anyway, I'm tired and I'm going to leave this topic to rest now. I've said my view, others have said theirs, and its obvious at this point that neither side is going to 'convert' the other to their way of thinking, and after a while internet-arguments start to look somewhat childish.

All I aimed to do was to express my opinion on the subject, so I apologise if I at all angered you with my view - all I intended was to express my view.

The New York Times
Japanese Market Plummets
In Japan almost overnight the economy took a turn for the worse as the ban of rape games that made up to 10-20% of the economy was put on a ban.

"I've never encountered a game in which the player takes a person, ties them up, and controls every action of pain they inflict upon that person. That is to say, you never get torture simulators, where you are given a large amount of tools to use on a character who is unable to resist, and you take pleasure in causing them hurt and pain; you hear them cry and see them squirm as you put them through simulated agony for amusement. This is how RapleLay is different from your example of, say, Half-Life."

Does this mean you would let an adult PC game such as EXTRAVAGANZA, which has... I think something like 30ish highly graphic and frequently gory rape scenes in it but no direct involvement (i.e. the player presses a button or otherwise has consistent input) be allowed? Or Gore Screaming Show, which is filled with mostly consensual sex, but features brutal maiming and rape as a form of a game over with just as little input?

I know that you've said that those are acceptable (rape is not the goal), but I want to see your reaction to more concrete examples.

Furthermore, what about games along the line of Black Lilith's titles, where yes indeed a women is sold into sexual slavery, abused and otherwise subjected to terrible things, but the player has no direct involvement and is merely a voyeur?

Because under your definition, you would ban Rapelay, and possibly two other games from commercial companies. The rest, I believe would be crappy flash games done on extremely low budgets.

One thing though, I think is unrepresentative is the description of the game on how detailed it is. From my understanding, it's poorly made in every way and is not conductive at all to *actually* planning a rape (Seriously though, read the description again getting bailed out because of rich parents after getting jailed is not happening)

Even more directly to the point, would anyone here support books which tell you how to build bombs? How about books which tell you how to steal them? Do you want to ban those too? Far from pressing a button in order to commit a detestable act, you're quite literally teaching someone?

OH NOES TEH RAEPE GAMERS WILL BE SO SAD

I'm going to put on my hip waders and reply to both this and it's sister thread by dropping my 2 cents into this boiling collection of tripe. Note that I'm replying to the thread's OP or articles here and am accepting them as accurate. Because I mean, The Escapist wouldn't post gross inaccuracies would they? :shiftyeyes:

That being said and because I can;

SetRant = on

OP "The ban appears to be the culmination of events that began in February, when two copies of the Japanese game RapeLay accidentally appeared on Amazon.com. Despite its nearly immediate removal and the fact that it was designed exclusively for the Japanese market, outrage quickly followed from sources including British Parliament, the New York City Council and the international women's rights group Equality Now."

It is very tempting and would undoubtedly be very easy to cite in the entire "Oh, so violence is ok but don't acknowledge the fact that the 'peepee goes in the bunny hole'" double standard whose issues have been extolled ever since the first digital wang. Therefore, I'm going to pass on restating it, mainly because that argument would be able to support itself no better than aforementioned pixelated wang (I will guess that could be referring to Custar's revenge. For those of you who still think Japan are the only perverts, wiki it).

Part of the problem at hand here is that until the Rapelay games hit amazon I can guarantee that many of the self-appointed enforcers of social morals and justice were not even aware of the (sizable) erotic games market in Japan, or even that you could play erotic games on your home computer at all. And of course where there's sex there's offended people, and if people are going to be getting offended cue some political party to start a ruckus because "if you're not against it you're for it" plus the same bullshit, uneducated, knee-jerk reaction factor as the entire Mass Effect mess, where some uppity news outlet decided to run a story for shock value and viewership because they knew people would react strongly and tune in to their station, not because they wanted to address an issue.

It's a stretch to be applying women's rights (or human rights for that matter) to video games. They are depictions of people, not actual people. The things you do in video games are not actually taking place, they are being depicted by an electronic medium. There is no one inside the box, so step off yours. The viewer is responsible for interpreting the media within their own set of morals. Putting the shoe on the other foot, there are ero games that portray the main character as some two dimensional testosterone powered sex fiend who in an even more bizarre twist has no freaking eyes. I'm trusting any common woman who has played those games to have the common sense and discernment to realize that just because men are depicted that way and also 'loosely' based on the presence of the ocular organs in my skull that I am not some character from a video game and share nothing with that character and that any similarities between the two of us are purely physical and even then insubstantial. If she doesn't the issue is a matter of mental or emotional deficiencies on her part, not that the male character was a rapist.

Coming back around to re-address the issue and attempt to minimize the outrage and backlash that is sure to come from this I'll restate that last line but within the issue's context: Women should trust that any common man who has played those games to have the common sense and discernment to realize that just because women are depicted that way and also 'loosely' based on the presence of A PULSE that women am not some character from a video game and share nothing with that character and that any similarities between the two are purely physical and even then insubstantial. If he doesn't the issue is a matter of mental or emotional deficiencies on his part, not that the female character was raped.

Violent sex acts aren't the problem. Having people that perform violent sex acts is the problem. Having violent sex acts portrayed in a game "thereby implying that it's okay" isn't the problem. Being unable to determine that forcing yourself onto someone is the problem. Having liqueur that can incite anger towards their family in some men isn't the problem. Having men who are unable to control their anger and/or their alcohol intake is the problem.

Of course, all this could be moot and the real topic here could be the addition of restrictions to what can be sold on websites without a viewing age restriction *cough*. Oops, silly me, that wouldn't be news worthy now would it.

In closing; Stop treating the symptom as a cause because it's easier. Figure out how to treat the actual cause.

It's like sticking your tongue to a frozen fence post. You can bitch and complain that it's too cold, that it seemed like a good idea at the time, or that "They told me to" but in the end it was you who decided to stick your tongue on a frozen fence post. Just admit that you're an idiot, figure out why you did it and will never do it again, then resolve to inform other people not to put their tongue on frozen objects, regardless of the reasons. Then I might use warm water to get your moronic self off the post.

SetRant = Off

gof22:

Kiutu:

gof22:

Kiutu:
Ok, I guess -I- will be the first to be against this.
Mostly it annoys me cause it seems more like people whining and being huge babies. Now, I know Japan does not have our government and laws (some we put on em yes, but not all) but still. Its like, why is this allowed but this not when it is very similar. So is games where girls are killed gonna be banned too? What about men/boys? Now yes, obviously few if any are playing these games for anything aside from sexual release, but for all we know it is a better outlet for peole with such fantasies. This is just like violence in gaming and is not going to make people who would not already do it start raping people or stalking them.
Equality Now, based on this they seem PETA-like. (Not a good thing)
Thats my view on this.

Death and rape are wrong no matter how someone spins it. The only difference is that death is more accepted than rape. Either way someone loses something but I would much rather die and keep my dignity. Than lose it to rape.

Not really. I am not comparing Deah to Rape. Im comparing Killing/Murder to Rape. Death would be comparable to Sex in this way. And I would rather be raped and live with the emotional scar and than die too young. Just because YOU would rather die does not mean everyone would. Atleast 1 person doesn't.

They should have the player buy a hooker and play rape games with the hooker. That way rape is not really happening. It is willing submission to rape games. Why play a rape game anyway? Why not just play a hentai game? There is still sex in it.

People actually want rape happening in their games. They don't want their simulation to become a simulation within a simulation. You're making it so it isn't even authentic within their simulation. Also, there are these things known as fetishes, some people wanna play a rape game, not just any game with sex. You're acting as if people playing these games just did because it was the first game they saw with sex.

AngloDoom:

Murder in games is fine, it's been fine for ages. We love to have epic fights and battles to the death, we always have, that's why we had arena's full of gladiators and that's why a lot of people would support that nowadays so long as everyone was consenting. Hell, even rape in games is fine if it is used for an objective; you show how evil Baddy X is by showing him (without being graphic for the sake of perversion) rape someone, or just sometimes imply he does through camera, speech, whatever. That's fine, rape is such a universal 'no-no' that it is a great way of making you hate a character. It's been used in games before, no-doubt, but if you were to control these sequences, to watch each action take place, to painfully rape a character, to hear their screams and protests, and watch the tears roll down their eyes, then I'd be against it.

.

against it as in you want it banned or against it as in you think it's a bad game? Also, I don't see why having sadism , without bringing it into the real world is a bad thing.

Not legally binding? Seems a pointless ruling to me if you can't prosecute people.

Urgh, that cover really doesn't help the porno business's case.
Spells out the whole predatory nature of this kind of entertainment...almost as bad as those cases in the US involving men found with pedophilic material who got off on some very shrewd nitpicking on the part of their lawyers.

If this kind of niche entertainment has to exist, they could at least be a little more discreet about it.
They've been around too long, comfortable under the indifference of government.

Cliff_m85:
I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously rape is a horrible and hideous thing, but this is fictionalized rape. It doesn't harm anyone at all. I think that it should still be legal for sale to those who want it.

That's just going to entice people to try the real thing when they're through with the pixels.

13lackfriday:
Urgh, that cover really doesn't help the porno business's case.
Spells out the whole predatory nature of this kind of entertainment...almost as bad as those cases in the US involving men found with pedophilic material who got off on some very shrewd nitpicking on the part of their lawyers.

If this kind of niche entertainment has to exist, they could at least be a little more discreet about it.
They've been around too long, comfortable under the indifference of government.

Cliff_m85:
I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously rape is a horrible and hideous thing, but this is fictionalized rape. It doesn't harm anyone at all. I think that it should still be legal for sale to those who want it.

That's just going to entice people to try the real thing when they're through with the pixels.

So what you're saying is that we are all potential rapists and it just takes a few pixels to convince us to try the real thing?

What a disgusting look at humanity!

In closing; Stop treating the symptom as a cause because it's easier. Figure out how to treat the actual cause.

Technically, if you get rid of all of the symptoms then there's no longer anything wrong with having the cause. If you have AIDS but you can keep your immune system from breaking down, or you have cancer but you can stop it from growing, then the cause is no longer a real problem. Just my reflexive counter to the old "cut it out from the root" argument.

Xshu:

In closing; Stop treating the symptom as a cause because it's easier. Figure out how to treat the actual cause.

Technically, if you get rid of all of the symptoms then there's no longer anything wrong with having the cause. If you have AIDS but you can keep your immune system from breaking down, or you have cancer but you can stop it from growing, then the cause is no longer a real problem. Just my reflexive counter to the old "cut it out from the root" argument.

And it's a good one, I totally agree with you in theory, although with two relatively minor stipulations; using the example of cancer, if you no longer have you medical health impeded or endangered by cancerous growth (and no risk of future progression) do you have cancer or a tissue abnormality? Also, while it is unarguably better than having the disease (and I realize this is off topic but I still enjoy commenting on your position) there would need to be no impact on day to day life in order to maintain that state in order for the solution to be perfect. Good example would be 'treating' (removing all symptoms of) partial kidney failure without the dialysis machine.

But in the end, yes you are right. I'm just pointing out that people seem to only be seeing part of the picture.

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