Leaked Modern Warfare 2 Opening Will Be Controversial

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So as always the game industry answer to be more adult is to give the player a big gun and kill things. Wow where have I seen that before (sarcasm off). I'm siding with this is stupid crowed they could have made a better effort to present the scene. Like making you play a civilian trying to get away or a security guard trying feebly to protect people not give the player a big and kill shit.

Come on people this kids stuff why can't the game industry grow the fucking hell up.

bagodix:

xscoot:
I'd post this under "Games as Art".

LOL!!!!

It isn't "art," it just tries to realistically show what it's like when terrorists go on a shooting spree in a public place. It's not like we haven't seen this sort of thing before in movies. And despite the fact that this is more realistic than what's been done before, there also isn't anything new about the player killing civilians in video games.

This is yet another manufactured "controversy" about nothing, like Resident Evil 5's and Left 4 Dead 2's "racism" and Mass Effect's alien rape orgies and whatnot. Some journalist somewhere was Outraged and now the gaming press is playing into it because it generates traffic. I wonder what nonsense we will see when the next Outrage occurs?

This is a non-issue. Yeah, it's nice that a war game is taking another step further in terms of realism (the first Modern Warfare already did some interesting things), but this "controversy" is bullshit.

I beg to differ. There was no "outrage" before this post was made, and this incident is very, very different from the ones you describe. This is not perceived racism or misrepresenting Mass Effect's sex scene as an "alien rape orgy," (which every gamer knew was a sham) this is putting people in the role of a terrorist massacring innocents. And if you read the thread, you would know that there are lots of people - gamers even - who feel uncomfortable with the idea.

There will be controversy and outrage from non-gamers (or even some gamers), and I assure you it won't be manufactured.

Kuhly:
So as always the game industry answer to be more adult is to give the player a big gun and kill things. Wow where have I seen that before (sarcasm off). I'm siding with this is stupid crowed they could have made a better effort to present the scene. Like making you play a civilian trying to get away or a security guard trying feebly to protect people not give the player a big and kill shit.

Come on people this kids stuff why can't the game industry grow the fucking hell up.

You're completely missing the point.

Did you ever play Shadow of the Colossus? The game went out of its way to present your actions as evil. You were ambushing innocent creatures and slaughtering them, and the developers clearly intended to make gamers feel uncomfortable about what they were doing in order to evoke an emotional reaction.

This is the same thing. My guess is Infinity Ward chose to put the player as the terrorist so they would feel disgusted at what they were doing. If you play as a security guard, you don't see the carnage, or you become a standard FPS badass, picking off the terrorists who then don't come off as evil so much as incompetent. By making you gun down defenseless civilians, they get their point across perfectly.

RABLE RABLE RABLE! DAHHHHH RABLE RABLE RABLE!!!!
DURR > HURR
RABLE RABLE RABLE!

I welcome this kind of footage, even if it's only a cutscene. You know why? Because we've been idealizing our own military for far too long.

Let's make a game about a young man growing up in Afghanistan. His mother was killed by rioting militants, his sister was raped by some random man who had the "right" to take advantage of her, and his father recently died trying to defend his country against Americans searching for Osama bin Laden. Now that he's of age, he decides to fight back against America for the damage it has caused him.

Tell me, is this any better or worse than the same view of an American soldier fighting unnamed Middle Eastern terrorists?

I know the media, the religious zealots, and the over-protective parents don't see it this way, but as a gamer, I do. It actually bothers me that I'm always playing the heroic American soldier whose genocide is justified because they are "the enemy". Why can't I play as the other side? Why are they somehow evil?

That's one of the things I liked best about CounterStrike. There was no story, no morale imperative, no obvious overtone that "we are right", it was just one group of people vs. another: terrorists vs. counter-terrorists. Each had their own weapons, their own reasons, and their own goals. It didn't matter to me which team I played, because I could always understand why one side would fight the other.

So why do we insist on pretending that the Americans are the good guys? It doesn't matter if it's WWI, WWII, or some imaginary WWIII -- it's always the Americans vs. the Russians, the Germans, or the unnamed Middle Easterners. Frankly, there are more people in the world than Americans. I'm a Canadian, and despite our integral part in WWI, WWII, and even America's fight with Afghanistan, you never see anything about the courageous Canadians who sacrificed their lives to fight somebody else's war. What about the poor Afghan people who were slaughtered because Bush was looking for some invisible spectre supposedly hiding in their country? What about the Jews and Germans alike who died trying to defend their country, even while it was being lead by a dictator who wanted them dead?

The world isn't black and white and there isn't always a right and wrong side. If parents and the media want to freak out about a single cutscene that shows the player acting as a Middle Eastern terrorist, maybe they should take a look at their own government and military, who are glorified as they terrorize millions of people in foreign countries.

If the whole purpose of this cutscene was to make the player "sick" to give them a motivation to kill the ragheads, then it's deplorable, not because it shows Middle Eastern people killing Americans, but because it's just another piece of propaganda to incite racial hatred.

If they think it's offensive to see footage of "terrorists" bombing an American airport, let's show them footage of Americans bombing Hiroshima, killing hundreds of thousands of people and permanently damaging millions more. Killing innocent civilians is always offensive, no matter whose side they are on.

Jack thompsons got his work cut out

T-Bone24:
The video is not working. But from what I read, I can only assume this will be blamed for "encouraging and training terrorists". I can see the headline now:

"NEW TERROR GAME ALLOWS YOUR CHILD TO MURDER AND TERRORISE"

if a girl beat her boyfriend to death with a video game case, they will probably start debating about the violence of video games rather than...I don't know, bipolar disorder, chronic disorder, anger management, teenage relationships...but no, blame video games lol

CantFaketheFunk:

I beg to differ. There was no "outrage" before this post was made, and this incident is very, very different from the ones you describe. This is not perceived racism or misrepresenting Mass Effect's sex scene as an "alien rape orgy," (which every gamer knew was a sham) this is putting people in the role of a terrorist massacring innocents. And if you read the thread, you would know that there are lots of people - gamers even - who feel uncomfortable with the idea.

People are Outraged (tm) because it's somehow an entirely novel idea to kill civilians in a video game, even though it clearly isn't.

CantFaketheFunk:
Tell me, is this any better or worse than the same view of an American soldier fighting unnamed Middle Eastern terrorists?

Please spare me from your moral equivalence bullshit.

It actually bothers me that I'm always playing the heroic American soldier whose genocide is justified because they are "the enemy".

Do you even know what a genocide is?

If the whole purpose of this cutscene was to make the player "sick" to give them a motivation to kill the ragheads, then it's deplorable, not because it shows Middle Eastern people killing Americans, but because it's just another piece of propaganda to incite racial hatred.

I think someone forgot to take their medication.

If they think it's offensive to see footage of "terrorists" bombing an American airport, let's show them footage of Americans bombing Hiroshima, killing hundreds of thousands of people and permanently damaging millions more. Killing innocent civilians is always offensive, no matter whose side they are on.

Terrorism isn't even remotely the same thing as air bombings during WW II. Furthermore, Japan started the war. Not the US.

bagodix:

CantFaketheFunk:

I beg to differ. There was no "outrage" before this post was made, and this incident is very, very different from the ones you describe. This is not perceived racism or misrepresenting Mass Effect's sex scene as an "alien rape orgy," (which every gamer knew was a sham) this is putting people in the role of a terrorist massacring innocents. And if you read the thread, you would know that there are lots of people - gamers even - who feel uncomfortable with the idea.

People are Outraged (tm) because it's somehow an entirely novel idea to kill civilians in a video game, even though it clearly isn't.

CantFaketheFunk:
Tell me, is this any better or worse than the same view of an American soldier fighting unnamed Middle Eastern terrorists?

Please spare me from your moral equivalence bullshit.

It actually bothers me that I'm always playing the heroic American soldier whose genocide is justified because they are "the enemy".

Do you even know what a genocide is?

If the whole purpose of this cutscene was to make the player "sick" to give them a motivation to kill the ragheads, then it's deplorable, not because it shows Middle Eastern people killing Americans, but because it's just another piece of propaganda to incite racial hatred.

I think someone forgot to take their medication.

If they think it's offensive to see footage of "terrorists" bombing an American airport, let's show them footage of Americans bombing Hiroshima, killing hundreds of thousands of people and permanently damaging millions more. Killing innocent civilians is always offensive, no matter whose side they are on.

Terrorism isn't even remotely the same thing as air bombings during WW II. Furthermore, Japan started the war. Not the US.

Uh. I think you may have quoted the wrong guy there.

That's caused by the forum software. It sometimes attributes quotes to the wrong people.

Can someone explain to me how killing innocent pixels in MW2 is any different from killing innocent pixels in GTA, Saints Row, Prototype, infamous, etc etc?

I'm sorry but I just can't work up any outrage for shooting what are essentially walking blocks of data.

NickCooely:
Can someone explain to me how killing innocent pixels in MW2 is any different from killing innocent pixels in GTA, Saints Row, Prototype, infamous, etc etc?

I'm sorry but I just can't work up any outrage for shooting what are essentially walking blocks of data.

I think you just won the Internets for using *gasp* common sense. This is pretty much what it should boil down to, but "common sense" isn't so common nowadays so I guess we'll take one innocents slaying Russian in an airport to go please :P
Can't wait to play that level, this may just make up for there not being any dedica..........................................................................

No, it won't actually, but it won't be any less fun to mow down civilian after civilian:D

WlknCntrdiction:

NickCooely:
Can someone explain to me how killing innocent pixels in MW2 is any different from killing innocent pixels in GTA, Saints Row, Prototype, infamous, etc etc?

I'm sorry but I just can't work up any outrage for shooting what are essentially walking blocks of data.

I think you just won the Internets for using *gasp* common sense. This is pretty much what it should boil down to, but "common sense" isn't so common nowadays so I guess we'll take one innocents slaying Russian in an airport to go please :P
Can't wait to play that level, this may just make up for there not being any dedica..........................................................................

No, it won't actually, but it won't be any less fun to mow down civilian after civilian:D

The "problem" is that for some pepole they are not only pixels, its kinda more of a symbolic meaning (i might aswell talking bullshit because the video is down, so i didint get to check it out). Personally, id say that this is just raising the hype of an already uber-hyped game.

ReverseEngineered:
I welcome this kind of footage, even if it's only a cutscene. You know why? Because we've been idealizing our own military for far too long.

Let's make a game about a young man growing up in Afghanistan. His mother was killed by rioting militants, his sister was raped by some random man who had the "right" to take advantage of her, and his father recently died trying to defend his country against Americans searching for Osama bin Laden. Now that he's of age, he decides to fight back against America for the damage it has caused him.

Tell me, is this any better or worse than the same view of an American soldier fighting unnamed Middle Eastern terrorists?

I know the media, the religious zealots, and the over-protective parents don't see it this way, but as a gamer, I do. It actually bothers me that I'm always playing the heroic American soldier whose genocide is justified because they are "the enemy". Why can't I play as the other side? Why are they somehow evil?

That's one of the things I liked best about CounterStrike. There was no story, no morale imperative, no obvious overtone that "we are right", it was just one group of people vs. another: terrorists vs. counter-terrorists. Each had their own weapons, their own reasons, and their own goals. It didn't matter to me which team I played, because I could always understand why one side would fight the other.

So why do we insist on pretending that the Americans are the good guys? It doesn't matter if it's WWI, WWII, or some imaginary WWIII -- it's always the Americans vs. the Russians, the Germans, or the unnamed Middle Easterners. Frankly, there are more people in the world than Americans. I'm a Canadian, and despite our integral part in WWI, WWII, and even America's fight with Afghanistan, you never see anything about the courageous Canadians who sacrificed their lives to fight somebody else's war. What about the poor Afghan people who were slaughtered because Bush was looking for some invisible spectre supposedly hiding in their country? What about the Jews and Germans alike who died trying to defend their country, even while it was being lead by a dictator who wanted them dead?

The world isn't black and white and there isn't always a right and wrong side. If parents and the media want to freak out about a single cutscene that shows the player acting as a Middle Eastern terrorist, maybe they should take a look at their own government and military, who are glorified as they terrorize millions of people in foreign countries.

If the whole purpose of this cutscene was to make the player "sick" to give them a motivation to kill the ragheads, then it's deplorable, not because it shows Middle Eastern people killing Americans, but because it's just another piece of propaganda to incite racial hatred.

If they think it's offensive to see footage of "terrorists" bombing an American airport, let's show them footage of Americans bombing Hiroshima, killing hundreds of thousands of people and permanently damaging millions more. Killing innocent civilians is always offensive, no matter whose side they are on.

You know, we bombed those cities because the alternatives were even worse. Japan was clearly not willing to surrender, so the only other option would have been a fullscale invasion which would've cost many more lives than the bombs (of both civilains and soldiers). 500,000 Armerican soldiers were the estimated casualties, and that's just our soldiers. That doesn't include japanese soldiers or civillians caught in the crossfire. Also an invasion would have taken too much time. The Russians had already attacked and demandeded parts of Korea and Vietnam, and they would've no doubt attacked Japan and demanded part of it too (they were already mobilized and had an invasion plan ready), possibly creating many more wars similar to Korea and Vietnam. I'm not saying it was the perfect solution, just that it was better than the others. Also, in your story about an Afghan fighting Americans. I know they killed his dad, but why is he so pissed at them? Seems to me that his own country fucked him over more (Americans don't say they have the right to rape people, or allow millitants to run around shooting your mother).

Can I just play the whole game as the terrorists? This is how I always act when a game allows me. Construction workers in Halo 3 to nonessential squadmates in CoD4- they all must DIEEE!

On a more serious note- I have no problem with this intro, and just hope Michael Atkinson won't get his ruddy hands on it. I'm not Australian- but I feel for them.

I like how people said this would be all over Fox News... I've heard more about it on CNN and my local radio then Fox News, I was hoping it would be on Fox News so I could get a laugh out of all the stupid crap they would say...now I'm depressed...

I'm glad they're not afraid to do stuff like this just because other people are squeamish pussies :)

Uncompetative:
The intended sophistication of this game's geopolitical commentary will go over the heads of the crass metal freaks who'll buy it for DA KICK.

...

What?

Also, I finally got to watch it.

Now, I usually am not bothered by similar things in games to what was in the video, but for some reason that even made my gut wrench a little. They really want me to gun down someone who's crawling, trying to get away? When I play this, I'll certainly feel bad about doing it.

I just hope there aren't any achievements for this section of play. "TERRORISTS FTW - 20G: Gun down at least 150 innocent civillians."

Sheesh. xD

I don't see the big deal, we've played as terrorists before.(CS)
GTA never got this bad press and 80% of people who play do run around kiling random people.

Dwnloaded video in case it goes down again.

i might megaupload it

and wow, only 697 views?

The video's been taken down, but from what I've read this doesn't sound much different to going on a spree in any of the GTA games.
There will be a reaction, but it's not the first time due to the player doing something like this...

I like the game, i will play it. Its not really controversy since we see that kind of violence in basically any game and movie, (and the news!) but there are always people who will say that video games are bad, since the cant grasp the fact that its not real violence but entertainment, like a James Bond movie.

It's interesting that you say "Post 9/11 world... ok maybe just the US" because the US has only had major terrorist bombings, and although the most significant ones took place using airplanes, all others have had nothing to do with planes/airports or even guns... just bombs. Europe has been the one where people have actually gotten gunned down like this, or had an attack comparable to an airport.

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