New Star Wars: The Old Republic Novel Finally Finishes Revan's Story

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aashell13:

Oroboros:
(spoiler)

Jumwa:
The canon version is of a male Light-side Revan? That evaporates my interest in knowing what happens.

And the canon ending for KoTOR II is Lightside female. Neither one matches up with my playthroughs. It feels like a big middle finger from bioware to me, waiting all this time to get a MMO instead of an rpg that is set hundreds of years after both the exile and revan are dead, instead of a continuation of their stories, and then canon got fixed to render 15/16 of the possible outcomes (having played through both games) irrelevant.

well, in all fairness it would be hard for KOTOR to make sense in the wider star wars universe without canon light side endings. otherwise you end up with things like the Republic being conquered by the sith, or the jedi being completely exterminated, both of which contradict the movies pretty severely.

KoTOR is so far removed chronologically, I think that it was assumed (before the set the canon) that your actions were reversed eventually, considering nothing from KoTOR I or II has any impact or references on or in the six movies. Besides, by the time Reven and possibly the exile leave to go look for the true sith, the sith empire in republic space has crumbled. There really wasn't a need for a canon ending considering this, except to make more money. (but not my money) All they needed to do in a sequel would have been to give the same sort of dialogue option that KoTOR II did, since there is such a huge time difference between KoTOR and the movies, there would be no canon conflict (canon conflicts didn't stop them from letting you say tell atton that revan was dark side and female in II) by making the decision to make a MMO instead, the pretty much eliminated this possibility though, unfortunately.

razor343:
Emm...
Wasn't Revan female in canon? ... No? Hurr...

Nah canon was Revan light side male,
And Kotor 2 the exile a Female neutral.

Oroboros:

aashell13:

Oroboros:
(spoiler)

And the canon ending for KoTOR II is Lightside female. Neither one matches up with my playthroughs. It feels like a big middle finger from bioware to me, waiting all this time to get a MMO instead of an rpg that is set hundreds of years after both the exile and revan are dead, instead of a continuation of their stories, and then canon got fixed to render 15/16 of the possible outcomes (having played through both games) irrelevant.

well, in all fairness it would be hard for KOTOR to make sense in the wider star wars universe without canon light side endings. otherwise you end up with things like the Republic being conquered by the sith, or the jedi being completely exterminated, both of which contradict the movies pretty severely.

KoTOR is so far removed chronologically, I think that it was assumed (before the set the canon) that your actions were reversed eventually, considering nothing from KoTOR I or II has any impact or references on or in the six movies. Besides, by the time Reven and possibly the exile leave to go look for the true sith, the sith empire in republic space has crumbled. There really wasn't a need for a canon ending considering this, except to make more money. (but not my money) All they needed to do in a sequel would have been to give the same sort of dialogue option that KoTOR II did, since there is such a huge time difference between KoTOR and the movies, there would be no canon conflict (canon conflicts didn't stop them from letting you say tell atton that revan was dark side and female in II) by making the decision to make a MMO instead, the pretty much eliminated this possibility though, unfortunately.

The Star Wars geeks so desperately need their canon that it's irrelevant. Even if a sequel was never made to KOTOR, even if it was never even mentioned again in any other EU material, they would have a canon ending, damnit.

The Bandit:

Oroboros:

aashell13:

well, in all fairness it would be hard for KOTOR to make sense in the wider star wars universe without canon light side endings. otherwise you end up with things like the Republic being conquered by the sith, or the jedi being completely exterminated, both of which contradict the movies pretty severely.

KoTOR is so far removed chronologically, I think that it was assumed (before the set the canon) that your actions were reversed eventually, considering nothing from KoTOR I or II has any impact or references on or in the six movies. Besides, by the time Reven and possibly the exile leave to go look for the true sith, the sith empire in republic space has crumbled. There really wasn't a need for a canon ending considering this, except to make more money. (but not my money) All they needed to do in a sequel would have been to give the same sort of dialogue option that KoTOR II did, since there is such a huge time difference between KoTOR and the movies, there would be no canon conflict (canon conflicts didn't stop them from letting you say tell atton that revan was dark side and female in II) by making the decision to make a MMO instead, the pretty much eliminated this possibility though, unfortunately.

The Star Wars geeks so desperately need their canon that it's irrelevant. Even if a sequel was never made to KOTOR, even if it was never even mentioned again in any other EU material, they would have a canon ending, damnit.

Yeah, there is no real reason for them to attempt to tie canon of any kind to KoTOR, It might as well be an alternate universe in the SW universe for all the effect it had on the movies. But those EU writers couldn't let things lie like that, no-siree! Everything in SW has to be connected by a million billion plot threads! Nothing is allowed to remain a mystery! No SW game can have a dark side ending, it's not allowed, we'll have to make it so only the light side ending is allowed for any follow-up games!

This sort of thing (along with the prequel trilogy) all but ruined my interest in SW. Really, why bother giving a game multiple endings if you are just going to invalidate them later on? It's a real kick in the pants for people who didn't play the game through in a specific way to find out that what they did didn't count. I'm sure people would be angry if they started Mass Effect II and weren't allowed to import their saves from the first game, and were forced to use the default story. Somehow this sort of thing gets to fly all the time in Star Wars games though, I can't think of a single game that didn't have a 'canon' lightside ending.

aashell13:
WANT. SO MUCH WANT.

I scoured KOTOR 2 over about 30 playthroughs looking for clues/hints/ANYTHING relating to the whereabouts and welfare of the characters from KOTOR 1, especially Revan.

So you used your electronic skills to hack T3-M4 and reveal a hidden message from Bastila Shan, which was intended for Revan?

Might actually be the only Star Wars book I dare to read. To bad about KotOR 3 never coming out, but what ya gonna do?

The Bandit:

Oroboros:

aashell13:

well, in all fairness it would be hard for KOTOR to make sense in the wider star wars universe without canon light side endings. otherwise you end up with things like the Republic being conquered by the sith, or the jedi being completely exterminated, both of which contradict the movies pretty severely.

KoTOR is so far removed chronologically, I think that it was assumed (before the set the canon) that your actions were reversed eventually, considering nothing from KoTOR I or II has any impact or references on or in the six movies. Besides, by the time Reven and possibly the exile leave to go look for the true sith, the sith empire in republic space has crumbled. There really wasn't a need for a canon ending considering this, except to make more money. (but not my money) All they needed to do in a sequel would have been to give the same sort of dialogue option that KoTOR II did, since there is such a huge time difference between KoTOR and the movies, there would be no canon conflict (canon conflicts didn't stop them from letting you say tell atton that revan was dark side and female in II) by making the decision to make a MMO instead, the pretty much eliminated this possibility though, unfortunately.

The Star Wars geeks so desperately need their canon that it's irrelevant. Even if a sequel was never made to KOTOR, even if it was never even mentioned again in any other EU material, they would have a canon ending, damnit.

*sigh* Sadly true.

Don't get me wrong, I was thrilled to hear about this myself and I'm sure that It'll be at least decent enough, quite simply because KOTOR 2's ending is such a humungous cliffhanger that a ton of people just wanted to know at least vaguely what happened after that with both Revan and the Exile (whom I'm glad they decided to *not* sweep under a rug and instead include her or 'him' in my playthrough anyway).

But what I sincerely doubt is that I will EVER want to discuss this novel with any Star Wars fanboy at ANY significant length. Why? Because 9/10 SW fanboys can't construct a half-decent argument or present a point of view based on ya know...the gameplay CHOICES of you being a male or female Revan or Exile and will instead just whine and bitch "NO! DATS NOT WUT CANON SAYZ HAPPEN'D!"

I'm thrilled to see this book coming out...and I'll be thrilled to use its stuff as a basis to help flesh out my characters in SWTOR, if it truly will impact that time period later on moreso, like Drew says it would in his Q&A. But I absolutely detest how it is 100% going to make the Star Wars fans unbearable in any sort of conversation. Much like a certain someone once said - I don't hate these Star Wars things, heck I love them really. But I hate what they do to people, making them into opinionated, entitled pseudo-religious pillocks who feel the need to bash you over the head with their ideas of the ***TRUE*** Star Wars experience, all the while forgetting that it's a goddamn fictional universe they're talking about.

Oroboros:
(spoiler)

Jumwa:
The canon version is of a male Light-side Revan? That evaporates my interest in knowing what happens.

And the canon ending for KoTOR II is Lightside female. Neither one matches up with my playthroughs. It feels like a big middle finger from bioware to me, waiting all this time to get a MMO instead of an rpg that is set hundreds of years after both the exile and revan are dead, instead of a continuation of their stories, and then canon got fixed to render 15/16 of the possible outcomes (having played through both games) irrelevant.

Canon for Star Wars is determined by LucasArts - they were the ones who chose to make Revan a male lightside character, and the Exile a female lightside character. They're also the ones who chose to make a MMO instead of KotOR 3. Every single Star Wars decision starts and stops with LucasArts, with outside studios having freedom within certain confines...but overall story and any permanent things in the Star Wars universe are decided at LA.

And while I agree that I don't think a canon character should have been chosen, it kind of makes sense if they ever want to refer to those characters again in future works. While possible, it's hard to continually keep making vague references to a character's decisions and personality, never expanding on what happened. If you ever want to re-use or mention a character again, at some point you have to establish canon.

This especially applies when you have books, shows, or movies based off of the IP, because then you have no form of data-transfer from the games. Games are unique in that you can design one to read the savegames off of the previous games, and (if you have the budget and time!) incorporate those save files.

LA has made plenty of references to Revan in their comics and books, so there's no way they'd be able to keep the character gender-neutral and personality-void forever. At some point they were going to have to pick, and at some point their decision was going to alienate everyone whose characters went against their decisions. It's either that or never mention those characters with any specificity whatsoever, and given Revan's popularity there's no way that was going to happen.

Acknowledgement that KOTOR2 existed? Fuck yes. My money, in their pocket, now.

I did feel kind of cheated when I reached the end of KOTOR1. I beat Malak and shut down the StarForge and my reward is -- an award ceremony? That's exactly as much effort as Nintendo puts into the ending of a Mario Bros. game. At least KOTOR2 gave some hint to the exile's destiny and that of the companions, even if it was in a lengthy text dump.

MUST READ.

I would prefer a game but I think that may of been annoying to people who played dark side and that was there canon since they couldn't change it, but a books a book, no arguing with a book.

aaronmcc:

aashell13:
WANT. SO MUCH WANT.

I scoured KOTOR 2 over about 30 playthroughs looking for clues/hints/ANYTHING relating to the whereabouts and welfare of the characters from KOTOR 1, especially Revan.

So you used your electronic skills to hack T3-M4 and reveal a hidden message from Bastila Shan, which was intended for Revan?

I did see that, yes.

I think hacking the robots was one of the most interesting side quests in both games. HK-47 had a lot more comedic value than T3 though.

razor343:

Scars Unseen:
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of fan boys suddenly cried out for KOTOR 3 and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.

razor343:
Emm...
Wasn't Revan female in canon? ... No? Hurr...

Revan = male; Exile = female. Canonically speaking.

Pah, I thought the opposite, shame on me.

Personally, even though I played through the game as a male, I've considered Revan female ever since I read this... it's one of the only fanfics I've ever read that's actually astoundingly good.

lumenadducere:

Oroboros:
(spoiler)

Jumwa:
The canon version is of a male Light-side Revan? That evaporates my interest in knowing what happens.

And the canon ending for KoTOR II is Lightside female. Neither one matches up with my playthroughs. It feels like a big middle finger from bioware to me, waiting all this time to get a MMO instead of an rpg that is set hundreds of years after both the exile and revan are dead, instead of a continuation of their stories, and then canon got fixed to render 15/16 of the possible outcomes (having played through both games) irrelevant.

Canon for Star Wars is determined by LucasArts - they were the ones who chose to make Revan a male lightside character, and the Exile a female lightside character. They're also the ones who chose to make a MMO instead of KotOR 3. Every single Star Wars decision starts and stops with LucasArts, with outside studios having freedom within certain confines...but overall story and any permanent things in the Star Wars universe are decided at LA.

And while I agree that I don't think a canon character should have been chosen, it kind of makes sense if they ever want to refer to those characters again in future works. While possible, it's hard to continually keep making vague references to a character's decisions and personality, never expanding on what happened. If you ever want to re-use or mention a character again, at some point you have to establish canon.

This especially applies when you have books, shows, or movies based off of the IP, because then you have no form of data-transfer from the games. Games are unique in that you can design one to read the savegames off of the previous games, and (if you have the budget and time!) incorporate those save files.

LA has made plenty of references to Revan in their comics and books, so there's no way they'd be able to keep the character gender-neutral and personality-void forever. At some point they were going to have to pick, and at some point their decision was going to alienate everyone whose characters went against their decisions. It's either that or never mention those characters with any specificity whatsoever, and given Revan's popularity there's no way that was going to happen.

My beef was with the "books, shows, or movies based off of the IP" In a series with a nonlinear story, linear storytelling has no place except to grab more money. It kills potential for developing stories in any follow up games. Is there anyone who appreciates the canon ending to the Baldur's Gate series? At least that BS is contained solely in the books and we don't have to read about it all over in forgotten realms lore, so you don't have to deal with starting up neverwinter nights and get slammed in the face by what the canon ending for BG II was. the Canon of KoTOR had literally zero impact on the trilogy timeframe until they decided to milk the games for all they were worth. There was nothing compelling them to fix the canon in any way except money. There were no loose ends connecting it to the larger scheme of things that needed to be addressed in any way besides a sequel. KoTOR II already gave the player the choice of making their own 'canon', so there is no reason to not repeat that procedure again in a KoTOR II, except that an MMO would make more money, and they couldn't have each player running around with a different canon ending to the games.

I'm both happy and disappointed with this news. Happy for finally knowing the fate of Revan. And angry that they would take the easy way out and make it on book form. I'd really like to play it. Kotor is a franchise that was left behind, probably by jealousy on part of Lucas. The best piece of fiction on Star Warts since Empire Strikes Back is Kotor, and he had nothing to do with it. Specially since the prequels betrayed us all.

Woodsey:
Oh God, am I really going to break my vow to never cross the ultimate nerd-line (well, one of many "ultimate" nerd-lines that I refuse to cross)?

Mind you, TOR has quest about Revan - that they specifically did a trailer for - that basically says "FIND OUT IN THIS QUEST!" so I probably won't have to read this.

But still, I must fucking know.

MUST.

HA, this is exactly how I feel right now. I have never bought a Star Wars book before but I am going to have to now.

And just as I get off Taris in my bazillionth KotOR playthrough... Life is sweet. Not KotOR 3 sweet, but sweet none the less

I absolutely cannot wait.
Unfortunately, I can't buy from the internet, so ill be book-hunting in every shop
Still, would rather have a KoToR 3...

Oroboros:
(spoilers)

Considering that in my playthroughs Reven was never a lightside male, and canon seems to have fixed the outcomes of the two games, I don't see myself picking up a copy of this. Why would I want read up on someone else's version of Revan if it runs counter to the one I am so fond of? What I wanted was a KoTOR III, not this. One of the reasons I am not terribly interested in TOR is because of this canon-fixing. There were essentially four different ways to complete the game and four ways to complete the sequel. Railroading those possibilities down into one narrow path and then telling players that what they did, and the character they played as 'don't count' has always rubbed me the wrong way. What do other people think?

I completely agree. I'm still open to playing TOR, but I doubt it'll hold my interest for more than a month or two. I'll probably set aside a week, play to cap with one class, toy around with another for as much time as I've got left and call it quits.

A single player story in a WoW-like MMO as a sequel to one of my favorite games of all time... I'm extremely skeptical and this isn't helping. It's odd, usually I get more hyped about games the closer they are to being released.

I just don't feel that way about Bioware anymore.

How much you want to bet he dies and/or ascends and becomes one with the Force, then somehow manages to impregnate Shmi Skywalker.

Ah Drew Karpyshyn is an excellent writer, not only was he lead writer on KOTOR and both Mass Effect games (co-lead writer on ME 2) but also wrote the excellent Darth Bane trilogy of novels that are definitely some of my favourite Star Wars EU material ever. He's certainly the right man for the job to close off Revan's story in a fulfilling way. I'm definitely looking forward to this.

As much as I love them, Bioware do like fucking me about
KOTOR 3? NO
Jade empire 2? NO
New baulders Gate? NO
Neverwinter nights 2? OBSIDION WILL DO IT

honestly I wont be suprised if They pawn the next Mass effect or dragon age on obsidion.

still, this book will jump strait to the front of my reading pile, KOTOR was the first bioware game I played and kicked off my Bioware fandom, which still holds today.

Hero in a half shell:

Woodsey:
Oh God, am I really going to break my vow to never cross the ultimate nerd-line (well, one of many "ultimate" nerd-lines that I refuse to cross)?

I know! The temptation.

This book will be what KOTOR 2 should have been, It should have at least told us about Revans story, let us unravel his post Starforge life, but It did not, there was no try.

Well, KotOR 2 was good at what it wanted to do: be an inward journey for a new character (the Exile) that also explains more about the history of the Star Wars universe. I'm sort of cribbing notes from this amazing LP, but basically, KotOR 2 set out to do some really difficult stuff narratively. Writing a story for a character who actually remembers his past, without telling us what it is by flashbacks or "As you know" style dialog. Writing a story that really takes place 10 years in the past, again with VERY few flashbacks. Making a Star Wars game a fucking morally ambiguous inward journey. Not to mention giving us the best written female character I've seen in a game, bar none.

It would have been easy for them to just continue Revan's story, but on reflection, I'm so glad they went with the hard route because it's so much more interesting.

Bayushi_Kouya:
Acknowledgement that KOTOR2 existed? Fuck yes. My money, in their pocket, now.

I did feel kind of cheated when I reached the end of KOTOR1. I beat Malak and shut down the StarForge and my reward is -- an award ceremony? That's exactly as much effort as Nintendo puts into the ending of a Mario Bros. game. At least KOTOR2 gave some hint to the exile's destiny and that of the companions, even if it was in a lengthy text dump.

Agreed. See my above lengthy boner over KotOR 2.

At first I was pissed. I assumed the Cannon Revan was a woman, and an evil one at that. but as it turns out, My revan was apparently cannon. Huh. How about that :]. Might just pick this up.

aashell13:

aaronmcc:

aashell13:
WANT. SO MUCH WANT.

I scoured KOTOR 2 over about 30 playthroughs looking for clues/hints/ANYTHING relating to the whereabouts and welfare of the characters from KOTOR 1, especially Revan.

So you used your electronic skills to hack T3-M4 and reveal a hidden message from Bastila Shan, which was intended for Revan?

I did see that, yes.

I think hacking the robots was one of the most interesting side quests in both games. HK-47 had a lot more comedic value than T3 though.

Did you ever try putting that pacification module on HK-47? i was really scared i'd broken him xD

EMFCRACKSHOT:

aashell13:

aaronmcc:

So you used your electronic skills to hack T3-M4 and reveal a hidden message from Bastila Shan, which was intended for Revan?

I did see that, yes.

I think hacking the robots was one of the most interesting side quests in both games. HK-47 had a lot more comedic value than T3 though.

Did you ever try putting that pacification module on HK-47? i was really scared i'd broken him xD

No, I saw that on youtube actually, never got around to doing it in-game.

Mr Wednesday:
Arg, really? I don't want them to finish the Revan story, I want to do it myself!

That has never stopped fan fiction writers before why would it stop them now?

lumenadducere:
LA has made plenty of references to Revan in their comics and books, so there's no way they'd be able to keep the character gender-neutral and personality-void forever. At some point they were going to have to pick, and at some point their decision was going to alienate everyone whose characters went against their decisions. It's either that or never mention those characters with any specificity whatsoever, and given Revan's popularity there's no way that was going to happen.

Have you read the Knights of the Old Republic comics? Always referred to as "Revan," always hooded or wearing a helmet. Totally ambiguous. They should have just gone the minimalist route instead of indulging in fanboyish desire to know everything about the character.

It boggles me that people are so profoundly interested in continuing on their own "personal experience" with a game to the point of barring the enjoyment of even an alternate telling of the same story in another format, by the very same creative people that made the game experience so enjoyable.

I think it must be some sort of narcissism-by-proxy effect with their game Avatars, or something else along those lines. In any case, it's kind of disturbing - think of it this way, there is such an intense association/identification with a game Avatar (or Character in general, because I believe this cross into other media as well), that any other alternate interpretation of this character is not only "not interesting", but to some people, down right abhorrent. It's like the identification is so strong that reinterpretation isn't just a curiosity, but a down right assault on their own self.

I don't know what to say here other than just maybe there might be a little bit too much "escapism" going on in some people's lives (Ironic I know, given the web site name here...). I admit that I have known some people who have gone through phases like this, and it's often been accompanied by deep depression and it's very worrisome how these two things go hand in hand (and how prevalent they are in people who enjoy sci-fi/fantasy genres).

I've never bought a Star Wars book, but...*sigh*
Ok, I'm doing it. I'm crossing the nerd point of no return.

originally they were going to do a kotor 3. The company ran into a lot of financial trouble just when the ball got rolling so they had to axe it.

PrinceofPersia:

Mr Wednesday:
Arg, really? I don't want them to finish the Revan story, I want to do it myself!

That has never stopped fan fiction writers before why would it stop them now?

Wot?

I wasn't implying my measly post would. Revan, like any character from an RPG like Kotor, is very much the player's creation, and when you come in and write cannon fiction you stamp all over that.

Bioware has made a novel for every one of their releases since Mass Effect, so this really wasn't a surprise. I don't really want a novel. I want a release date.

Male Revan saves the Republic? Nope, not gonna buy this.

Female Revan leads the Sith to conquer the Galaxy. That's a novel for me.

Mr Wednesday:

PrinceofPersia:

Mr Wednesday:
Arg, really? I don't want them to finish the Revan story, I want to do it myself!

That has never stopped fan fiction writers before why would it stop them now?

Wot?

I wasn't implying my measly post would. Revan, like any character from an RPG like Kotor, is very much the player's creation, and when you come in and write cannon fiction you stamp all over that.

In an odd way I think that question goes both ways. Why let their book coming out, stop your imagination? Last I checked no one had a cease and desist order on that.

Oro44:
Bioware has made a novel for every one of their releases since Mass Effect, so this really wasn't a surprise. I don't really want a novel. I want a release date.

Agreed, I love KOTOR but let Revan's fate be revealed in the game.

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